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[VIDEO] New Zealand win 1st Test by 101 runs despite heroics by Fawad Alam (102) and M. Rizwan (60)

85% NZ Win
10% Pak Win
5% Draw

That’s what I think is the probability of the outcomes.
 
mazkhan said:
I really hope muhamad wasim makes big changes with the selections when it comes to the top order and middle order

Imo abid , shan , azhar Ali should be discarded after this tour along with fawad alam with that ridiculous technique .
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Azhar Ali is Wasim's old friend :)
 
ataullah said:
Babar
Imam/Sharjeel
Saud
Abdullah
Haider
Rizwan
Faheem
Zafar
Hasan Ali
Shaheen
Hasnain/Shahnawaz

This team if given a few years to develop would surprise people but Pakistan fans and management have no patience at all.
What u think [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION] @bulletdrive?
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Not much option left to be honest. But, one thing I can suggest that PCB should try to build separate squad for Test & LO cricket. This might help sorting the bowlers better because frankly speaking PAK’s bowling is worse than batting outside Asia. Need bowlers who can get batsmen out when they are trying to survive. Yesterday Naseem got 3 wickets from three lobs and that’s exactly the problem with PAK bowling - good at taking wickets when batsmen are in T20 mood.

The list you made is fine, may be 1-2 options, but this is what it is excluding Haider. He’ll have to walk long, long ways before becoming a Test batsman.
 
Mueez said:
85% NZ Win
10% Pak Win
5% Draw

That’s what I think is the probability of the outcomes.
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0% chance of win considering that this total has never been reached by a visiting team in history. And this against the GOAT NZ pace attack. A draw would be great for Pakistan
 
Well to all the Pakistanis watching, it pains me to say it but we will most likely get hammered over here. I'd like to see Fawad, Rizwan, and Faheem get some runs, but Azhar Ali's batting mistake has cost us the game.

For the next game, if we are to even consider playing a spinner, it must be an all-rounder.

Two things are going to happen. Option A is that if Pakistan somehow manage to draw the game, New Zealand will conjure the greenest wicket they can and destroy us in the second match.

If we lose here, New Zealand will go for another one of these pitches.

From my understanding, a few positives from this match were the lower-order batting, our bowling (Shaheen, Abbas), and Abbas putting up a good fight as a night watchman.

Still, I am an optimist, and though I won't watch this match now, I think that Pakistan has to defend everything now. Or we can risk it all for the win. The choice is theirs.
 
As predicted the team management will use the 14 day lockdown as an excuse for this diabolical showing.
 
UzmanBeast said:
Well to all the Pakistanis watching, it pains me to say it but we will most likely get hammered over here. I'd like to see Fawad, Rizwan, and Faheem get some runs, but Azhar Ali's batting mistake has cost us the game.

For the next game, if we are to even consider playing a spinner, it must be an all-rounder.

Two things are going to happen. Option A is that if Pakistan somehow manage to draw the game, New Zealand will conjure the greenest wicket they can and destroy us in the second match.

If we lose here, New Zealand will go for another one of these pitches.

From my understanding, a few positives from this match were the lower-order batting, our bowling (Shaheen, Abbas), and Abbas putting up a good fight as a night watchman.

Still, I am an optimist, and though I won't watch this match now, I think that Pakistan has to defend everything now. Or we can risk it all for the win. The choice is theirs.
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Not sure how Abbass Zulfiqar Babar type bowling is a positive. If your premier fast bowler is not getting wickets he is useless, maidens do not win test matches.
 
These guys shud defos take it session by session but then again it Is Pakistan here . We dont have the patience to amd we dont use our brains
 
Nervous stuff out there.

Boys seem on edge.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
0% chance of win considering that this total has never been reached by a visiting team in history. And this against the GOAT NZ pace attack. A draw would be great for Pakistan
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True bro. Just think there is less chance of a draw than a Pak win.
 
The worse thing about this tour and this current team management that there is literally nothing to look forward. We lose anyway on most SENA tours but this one so far there’s literally not any positives so far imo. The 2 positives of Rizwan and Shaheen are the two we already know and I’m more worried they’ll just go down a rut themselves playing with this sorry bunch.
 
MMHS said:
Not much option left to be honest. But, one thing I can suggest that PCB should try to build separate squad for Test & LO cricket. This might help sorting the bowlers better because frankly speaking PAK’s bowling is worse than batting outside Asia. Need bowlers who can get batsmen out when they are trying to survive. Yesterday Naseem got 3 wickets from three lobs and that’s exactly the problem with PAK bowling - good at taking wickets when batsmen are in T20 mood.

The list you made is fine, may be 1-2 options, but this is what it is excluding Haider. He’ll have to walk long, long ways before becoming a Test batsman.
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I agree about haider and same with Hasnain

Also abdullah I dont think he's ready for international cricket yet

so thats 3/11 not prepared enough for tests

I have my reservations about Imam as a test player as well and someone putting babar to open needs to understand cricket better
 
Seems like the boys have made ther mind about playing positive. Then again dont mind if they get our trying rather than defending away
 
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MMHS said:
Not much option left to be honest. But, one thing I can suggest that PCB should try to build separate squad for Test & LO cricket. This might help sorting the bowlers better because frankly speaking PAK’s bowling is worse than batting outside Asia. Need bowlers who can get batsmen out when they are trying to survive. Yesterday Naseem got 3 wickets from three lobs and that’s exactly the problem with PAK bowling - good at taking wickets when batsmen are in T20 mood.

The list you made is fine, may be 1-2 options, but this is what it is excluding Haider. He’ll have to walk long, long ways before becoming a Test batsman.
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Problem for Pakistan is that we don't play much cricket, hence very hard to pin down a player just being a test specialist especially bowlers. They will go around playing T-20 leagues around the world. Bowlers themselves have to understand how to bowl in different formats. Big 5 teams have players who play in all formats and they change their strategy approach accordingly.

For me, our bowlers are just not used to longer spells and ragra in the field and hence they deteriorate so badly in their 3rd and 4th spell onwards giving the opposition a chance to get back in the field. Bowlers need to be made to toil for longer time periods in domestic cricket for 5-6 plus years to be ready for the rigors, demands of international cricket.

Bhumra in an interview attributed his ability to bowl 140 km/hr plus for 7-8 overs in 4-5 different spells during the day to India's fitness culture and the amount of bowling they have to do on the flat wickets in Indian Domestic Cricket
 
Mueez said:
Brother Haris is one of those batsmen who on their day can look like a million dollars worth however those days of Haris are gone.

Also his fitness and lazy body language bring a negative vibe.

I really thought Haris was a genuine bat but he’s proven me wrong with his performances...
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Bro, nothing personal here but I was at the ground at Lord's vs SAF and vs NZD in CWC19.

He has a wonderful eye. And unfortunately that's where it stops.

He was exposed in ENG 2018. That's my opinion, and people may feel free to disagree. He scored soft 30s, was streaky through the slips/gully region and played drives aerially through the covers etc. They just went in the gaps.

Plays far from his body and is a strong caught behind/slips candidate when the ball moves or bounces slightly. I am not even going to talk about his inability to deal with short deliveries, as I think the discussion does not even progress that far.

Finally, his attitude towards his own career, fitness, diet, overall body language suggest just one thing: he belongs to the Inzamam school of thought. If he had the discipline of Shan or Fawad (or even Younis if we go further back) he could have salvaged something in his career.

He managed to wriggle out of the SAF tour otherwise this Haris Sohail is talented myth would have stopped earlier. He was woefully exposed in AUS and then managed to avoid touring ENG again this year. I was really hoping he would tour.

Prior to his dismissal, I posted the below (post #91) - reproducing part of it here for completeness: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Pakistani-batsman-quot-Mohammad-Yousuf/page2

Yk313 said:
Not sure how this became a thing. As far as Test cricket is concerned Haris’ only contribution I can recall are soft 30s scored in ENG in 2018.

He did not tour SAF and was woefully exposed in AUS. His 30s in ENG had a fair share of streaky runs between 3rd/4th slip and gully. I was hoping that he would have toured SAF and then ENG this year to have this myth put to bed for good.

Before I get on to the topic of weight, injuries, attitude and presence/body language - isn’t his technique quite transparent in the sense that he plays far away from the body and is liable to not just nick the ball in the event of bounce/movement, but also to play his drives in the air?

Look, PP has enough smart people. Really hoping this guy can “prove me wrong” or whatever that means. A soft 50 (stroked through the slip cordon) will not do. If he has any mettle, will need to score big and show us what this talent is.
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Throughout the match the mode of dismissals have been poor.

Some very ordinary shots.
 
MMHS said:
If PAK can bail out a draw today, it’ll be more than a win. A Test match saved from a hopeless situation is like a Test match win - before halfway through the Test, PAK was 80/6 with 350+ behind. From there on drawing a Test will proud worthy.
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IT's impossible to draw from here. Literally impossible
 
hur rizvi said:
I agree about haider and same with Hasnain

Also abdullah I dont think he's ready for international cricket yet

so thats 3/11 not prepared enough for tests

I have my reservations about Imam as a test player as well and someone putting babar to open needs to understand cricket better
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Well i will not discard Abdullah yet, yes he had a shocker on this tour but i want the PCB to give him a chance in home conditions against SA. Cricket is a confidence game and one of the main reasons why India does so well now is because of the volume of cricket they play which is considerably higher in comparison to Pakistan especially at home and hence they have batsmen who are beasts at home and they carry that confidence with them when they go overseas.

It is one thing to discard the so called senior experienced players who have been playing non stop for Pakistan in the last 10 years with nothing to show for it, but unfair to discard youngsters especially on their first tour of NZ
 
Yk313 said:
Bro, nothing personal here but I was at the ground at Lord's vs SAF and vs NZD in CWC19.

He has a wonderful eye. And unfortunately that's where it stops.

He was exposed in ENG 2018. That's my opinion, and people may feel free to disagree. He scored soft 30s, was streaky through the slips/gully region and played drives aerially through the covers etc. They just went in the gaps.

Plays far from his body and is a strong caught behind/slips candidate when the ball moves or bounces slightly. I am not even going to talk about his inability to deal with short deliveries, as I think the discussion does not even progress that far.

Finally, his attitude towards his own career, fitness, diet, overall body language suggest just one thing: he belongs to the Inzamam school of thought. If he had the discipline of Shan or Fawad (or even Younis if we go further back) he could have salvaged something in his career.

He managed to wriggle out of the SAF tour otherwise this Haris Sohail is talented myth would have stopped earlier. He was woefully exposed in AUS and then managed to avoid touring ENG again this year. I was really hoping he would tour.

Prior to his dismissal, I posted the below (post #91) - reproducing part of it here for completeness: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Pakistani-batsman-quot-Mohammad-Yousuf/page2
Click to expand...

Harris has only himself to blame. Your natural ability and talent will take you so far. If you don't remain disciplined as far as taking care of your fitness, diet and working hard on your game, your form will eventually suffer and other teams will work him out as well.
 
Savak said:
Well i will not discard Abdullah yet, yes he had a shocker on this tour but i want the PCB to give him a chance in home conditions against SA. Cricket is a confidence game and one of the main reasons why India does so well now is because of the volume of cricket they play which is considerably higher in comparison to Pakistan especially at home and hence they have batsmen who are beasts at home and they carry that confidence with them when they go overseas.

It is one thing to discard the so called senior experienced players who have been playing non stop for Pakistan in the last 10 years with nothing to show for it, but unfair to discard youngsters especially on their first tour of NZ
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I won't discard him either but he's not ready for test cap yet. Play him in side match against Saffers and let him play next full domestic season and then see where things go from there
 
Close fielders adding to pressure. Few shots may release the pressure but Pak have a very weak Batting line up, tail would not last long.
 
Yk313 said:
Bro, nothing personal here but I was at the ground at Lord's vs SAF and vs NZD in CWC19.

He has a wonderful eye. And unfortunately that's where it stops.

He was exposed in ENG 2018. That's my opinion, and people may feel free to disagree. He scored soft 30s, was streaky through the slips/gully region and played drives aerially through the covers etc. They just went in the gaps.

Plays far from his body and is a strong caught behind/slips candidate when the ball moves or bounces slightly. I am not even going to talk about his inability to deal with short deliveries, as I think the discussion does not even progress that far.

Finally, his attitude towards his own career, fitness, diet, overall body language suggest just one thing: he belongs to the Inzamam school of thought. If he had the discipline of Shan or Fawad (or even Younis if we go further back) he could have salvaged something in his career.

He managed to wriggle out of the SAF tour otherwise this Haris Sohail is talented myth would have stopped earlier. He was woefully exposed in AUS and then managed to avoid touring ENG again this year. I was really hoping he would tour.

Prior to his dismissal, I posted the below (post #91) - reproducing part of it here for completeness: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Pakistani-batsman-quot-Mohammad-Yousuf/page2
Click to expand...

Great post bro. Haris himself is the reason why he hasn’t achieved what he should’ve with such potential.

Think he should get dropped and Pakistan should bring in a youngster instead of him!
 
Pretty flat track, doesn’t look to have any day 5 demons to be honest. Play it like a one day. We lose, no issue. Just show intent
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Pretty flat track, doesn’t look to have any day 5 demons to be honest. Play it like a one day. We lose, no issue. Just show intent
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Yar harna tu hai, so why not go down swinging. At least it is entertaining. No way we can block out full day.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Pretty flat track, doesn’t look to have any day 5 demons to be honest. Play it like a one day. We lose, no issue. Just show intent
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Lol you’re taking as if in a one day our performances are much better :))
 
Savak said:
Not sure how Abbass Zulfiqar Babar type bowling is a positive. If your premier fast bowler is not getting wickets he is useless, maidens do not win test matches.
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He is the last bowler who I'd take off the team sheet because he builds pressure. He had taken so many edges of Latham which did not carry. He puts us in good positions with the new ball. It's our other bowlers like Naseem who alleviate the pressure that is built. Remove Naseem first and then we can worry about Abbas"s place in the side.

The only area of constructive criticism I have for Abbas is the fact that he can bowl a bit quicker and become more threatening. Bowling 130-135 kph will be good for him, because batsmen won't come out of their crease at that pace and he will get more seam movement and swing
 
Misbah has really sucked the joy out of watching cricket. Did the same thing for me in ODIs in 2012 to late 2014 period.
 
Talking about Latham vs Fawad stance and movement, Fawad is the one with risks but it was Latham that gave 3 or 4 edge catches at slip.
 
Take the attack to the bowlers is the best approach in this situation. This is a good pitch to bat on. So put the bad balls away and look to rotate the strike. Which in return will put pressure on Willamson to Move his fielders about.
 
UzmanBeast said:
He is the last bowler who I'd take off the team sheet because he builds pressure. He had taken so many edges of Latham which did not carry. He puts us in good positions with the new ball. It's our other bowlers like Naseem who alleviate the pressure that is built. Remove Naseem first and then we can worry about Abbas"s place in the side.

The only area of constructive criticism I have for Abbas is the fact that he can bowl a bit quicker and become more threatening. Bowling 130-135 kph will be good for him, because batsmen won't come out of their crease at that pace and he will get more seam movement and swing
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Definitely. An attack of Shaheen, Hassan, and Abbas is what I would go for against South Africa
 
UzmanBeast said:
He is the last bowler who I'd take off the team sheet because he builds pressure. He had taken so many edges of Latham which did not carry. He puts us in good positions with the new ball. It's our other bowlers like Naseem who alleviate the pressure that is built. Remove Naseem first and then we can worry about Abbas"s place in the side.

The only area of constructive criticism I have for Abbas is the fact that he can bowl a bit quicker and become more threatening. Bowling 130-135 kph will be good for him, because batsmen won't come out of their crease at that pace and he will get more seam movement and swing
Click to expand...

If he was back to 132-135kph range he would be back taking wickets. His discipline is immaculate. Did not give any lose balls which is why he had such a good economy rate.

However his delivery is coming so slow that the batsman can adjust and negotiate. The 4-5kph he has lost are really the death knell.
 
Batsmen who know how to tick the scoreboad very well in Pakistan cricket (singles and doubles):

Babar
Rizwan
Shadab

That’s it.
 
A lot of the cracks that would have been papered over had we won the first Test (and hence the series) against ENG have been exposed in all their glory here. Even without digging into the older scorecards, some obvious patterns listed below.

The potency of the bowlers, the "anchorage" that comes from seniors, patterns in the dismissals of the openers.

- Wasn't Shan strangled down the leg side at least once? Maybe I am mistaken but also against SAF (correct me if I am wrong)
- Azhar, Abid and Fawad's shortcomings are obvious
- Haris (managed to avoid the tour; conclusions from 2018 tour and AUS tour stand)
- Rizwan (drives hard the ball without bending front knee. This means being susceptible to being caught behind if he misjudges length or the ball moves, or if he does not get to the pitch while driving (i.e. scooping) the ball, he will play it in the air. I hope everyone noticed that NZD positioned a catching short cover for him too)
 
Have to agree with the emerging consensus re: Haris.

He has a lazy elegance that makes him as pleasing to watch as Babar. Tactically he's one of the better domestic captains too. But the lack of work ethic and poor fitness is infuriating and he joins the long line of wasted PAK talent.

He still has a good record in ODIs but see little point in carrying an unfit 30+ cricketer just for one format.
 
I want to just point out something about field placements and studying players as a team.

You look at what New Zealand are doing, bringing as many fielders as possible close to the bat. I have rarely seen Pakistan use field positions in this attacking manner.

Furthermore, we don't make plans for field placements against specific batsmen. For example, any team with a cricketing brain would put a fielder in the cover region for Babar, and we know that Williamson's strength is the back foot punch, yet we didn't even employ that field.

We didn't bring fielders in when Buttler and Woakes were fresh on the crease either.

Just something to note.
 
UzmanBeast said:
I want to just point out something about field placements and studying players as a team.

You look at what New Zealand are doing, bringing as many fielders as possible close to the bat. I have rarely seen Pakistan use field positions in this attacking manner.

Furthermore, we don't make plans for field placements against specific batsmen. For example, any team with a cricketing brain would put a fielder in the cover region for Babar, and we know that Williamson's strength is the back foot punch, yet we didn't even employ that field.

We didn't bring fielders in when Buttler and Woakes were fresh on the crease either.

Just something to note.
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We aren’t proactive with our strategies.
 
Rizwan has improved so much in the last two years. Wonderful to watch his recent progress.
 
UzmanBeast said:
I want to just point out something about field placements and studying players as a team.

You look at what New Zealand are doing, bringing as many fielders as possible close to the bat. I have rarely seen Pakistan use field positions in this attacking manner.

Furthermore, we don't make plans for field placements against specific batsmen. For example, any team with a cricketing brain would put a fielder in the cover region for Babar, and we know that Williamson's strength is the back foot punch, yet we didn't even employ that field.

We didn't bring fielders in when Buttler and Woakes were fresh on the crease either.

Just something to note.
Click to expand...

This is why we need foreign coaches. Such analysis is behind capacity of our desi coaches who’s idea of a good training session is 10 rounds of the pitch and then throw downs and net sessions without much agenda of what they are trying to get out of it.
 
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