[VIDEOS] Imran Khan is the greatest cricketer ever

[tempus123]

IMO, following is Asian cricketers list in order..

1. Murali
2. Sachin
3. Imran
4. Wasim
5. Gavaskar
6. Sangakkara
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Javed Miandad/Rahul Dravid
9. MS Dhoni (for ODIs brilliance and captaincy)
10. Waqar/Inzamam/Desilva/Jayasurya/Anwar..

 

[Pak Warrior]

If judging by an over all complete player, Imran is the most complete player that I can think of. Nobody else accelled in batting, bowling, captaincy, selection, and mental attitude the way this man did. He combined all of these things into the most effective formula I have ever seen. Bradman is by far the greatest batsman of all time, with ST as 2nd...you can have your pick of mural or Warne as greatest spinner, and Wasim as the greatest fast baller if u like...But when it comes to being the most complete in respect to the qualities I listed, which are huge factors in winning, Imran has them all beat. Most people will not have a problem saying he's the greatest Player from Asia, but he's really not that far from claiming the throne as the greatest period.

 

[tempus123]

If judging by an over all complete player, Imran is the most complete player that I can think of. Nobody else accelled in batting, bowling, captaincy, selection, and mental attitude the way this man did. He combined all of these things into the most effective formula I have ever seen. Bradman is by far the greatest batsman of all time, with ST as 2nd...you can have your pick of mural or Warne as greatest spinner, and Wasim as the greatest fast baller if u like...But when it comes to being the most complete in respect to the qualities I listed, which are huge factors in winning, Imran has them all beat. Most people will not have a problem saying he's the greatest Player from Asia, but he's really not that far from claiming the throne as the greatest period.

Then why is he not in the first choice world XI of any expert ?

 

[Bilal7]

Earning 50 marks in both disciplines is not necessarily better than earning 70 marks in one and 10 in the other.

If Sachin had a rating of 92 in the batting department, Imran was a 90 in the bowling, at the very least. I would personally put Khan's bowling and Sachin's batting at the same level.

When you consider that both were ATGs in one department, the one with more strings to his bow should be rated higher by any rational human being.

LOL.. 70 odd in final was good but it was not legendary match winning innings like the ones played in other finals.. also Kapil's 175 was way better..

Haha. That 175 against the mighty Zimbabwe side was nothing compared to a match-winning innings scored in a world cup final, something that Sachin never could manage. Stop fooling around.

Better than Sachin as a cricketer if you leave captaincy out ? It's debatable.. but what [MENTION=139315]Indian_Supporter[/MENTION] said was not debatable (second part of leaving at that)

You don't leave captaincy out, that was part of Imran's package.

You’re saying this as if it is 100% true. It may be true but there are many experts who rate Sachin as a better cricketer, Dhoni as a better captain and Wasim as a better bowler.

I was responding to his comment in his manner. I wonder why you guys never speak up against a fellow Sachin fan.

Then why is he not in the first choice world XI of any expert ?

Are you serious? He's made the World XI of quite a few ex-players.

 

[MMHS]

This is a tricky thread.

I don't think in any sports, there is unanimous all-time best - there 'll be debate among top 5-6 sportsmen in a particular sports & the debate goes on. Also, there are different traits of any game - it can always be debated between Pele & Beckenbouer, one a forward & another a defender; same can be for Lev Yashin - Maradona.

I think, Imran 'll make the all time XI, which makes best for his position & among the very best few, because his trait was the crown jewel of the sports - Fast bowling genuine all-rounder, besides, he was a great leader & a competitor.

It's difficult to compare players of different era, of different set of skills, as the game & contest changes over the period. If I goo for the top players of every decade/era - this 'll be my top selection

1870-1900 - WG Grace
1900-20 (I take it as single decade, as 6 years was lost for war) - VT Trumper
1920-30 - JB Hobbs (close between him & Sutcliff & Jack Gregory)
1930-50 (again 2 decades combined as 6 years lost to war) - DG Bradman
1950-60 - Keith Miller (close between him & Trumann)
1960-70 - Garry Sobers
1970-80 - Viv Richards
1980-90 - Imran Khan
1990-00 - Wasim Akram (Close between him & Warne, but Warne had a longer career over 2 decades)
2000-15 - Muralitharan (I go for the bowler in a batting "easy" era, over Panta, Tendulkar, Lara, AB & Sanga)

In that regard, Imran indeed was among the very best, also, he was the best when the game was probably at it's highest point. But I think only unanimous verdict is DG Brandman is considered as the undisputed best ever batsman.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

will make it into any team as a specialist batsman ? Arre bhai kya fanboy goli kha kar aaye ho ?

He has 37 average. Pretty sure that's good enough to get in as a number 5 or 6. I didn't say he should have a world class average. I simply said he could still make it into the team as a specialist batsman. Rohit Sharma does.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

IMO, following is Asian cricketers list in order..

1. Murali
2. Sachin
3. Imran
4. Wasim
5. Gavaskar
6. Sangakkara
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Javed Miandad/Rahul Dravid
9. MS Dhoni (for ODIs brilliance and captaincy)
10. Waqar/Inzamam/Desilva/Jayasurya/Anwar..

Murali wasn't even in the top 5 rated by the cricinfo panel in the search for greatest ODI player

 

[Indian_Supporter]

IMO, following is Asian cricketers list in order..

1. Murali
2. Sachin
3. Imran
4. Wasim
5. Gavaskar
6. Sangakkara
7. Kapil Dev.
8. Javed Miandad/Rahul Dravid
9. MS Dhoni (for ODIs brilliance and captaincy)
10. Waqar/Inzamam/Desilva/Jayasurya/Anwar..

Sachin
Dhoni
Imran
Murali
Wasim

In that order..

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[TheNightWatchman]

will make it into any team as a specialist batsman ? Arre bhai kya fanboy goli kha kar aaye ho ?

Not to mention the guy averaged 50 in his last 12 years

 

[TheNightWatchman]

1-Imran
2-Sachin
3-Wasim
4-Murali

 

[OS_89]

Greatest asian cricketers for me would be:

1) Imran
2) Tendulkar
3) Murali
4) Wasim
5) Gavaskar
6) Sangakkara
7) Kapil
8) Dravid
9) Miandad
10) Waqar/Sehwag

 

[tempus123]

If Sachin had a rating of 92 in the batting department, Imran was a 90 in the bowling, at the very least. I would personally put Khan's bowling and Sachin's batting at the same level.

When you consider that both were ATGs in one department, the one with more strings to his bow should be rated higher by any rational human being.



Haha. That 175 against the mighty Zimbabwe side was nothing compared to a match-winning innings scored in a world cup final, something that Sachin never could manage. Stop fooling around.



You don't leave captaincy out, that was part of Imran's package.



I was responding to his comment in his manner. I wonder why you guys never speak up against a fellow Sachin fan.



Are you serious? He's made the World XI of quite a few ex-players.

Match winning 70.. he was MOM in that final ? Match winning my foot.

 

[tempus123]

If Sachin had a rating of 92 in the batting department, Imran was a 90 in the bowling, at the very least. I would personally put Khan's bowling and Sachin's batting at the same level.

When you consider that both were ATGs in one department, the one with more strings to his bow should be rated higher by any rational human being.



Haha. That 175 against the mighty Zimbabwe side was nothing compared to a match-winning innings scored in a world cup final, something that Sachin never could manage. Stop fooling around.



You don't leave captaincy out, that was part of Imran's package.



I was responding to his comment in his manner. I wonder why you guys never speak up against a fellow Sachin fan.



Are you serious? He's made the World XI of quite a few ex-players.

No.. Tendulkar was a much better batsman than Imran was a bowler.. it was not 92 - 90.. else, you wouldn't find many people not including Imran in their all-time world XI purely as a bowler. Note the keyword "purely".

 

[tempus123]

Murali wasn't even in the top 5 rated by the cricinfo panel in the search for greatest ODI player

Who were the top-5 and how they were selected ?

 

[Mamoon]

Match winning 70.. he was MOM in that final ? Match winning my foot.

He played a great knock in the final, and it certainly played a big role in our win, but he played poorly in the semifinal but was saved by a legendary innings by Inzamam.

People like to revise facts but Imran's semifinal innings was no different to Misbah's Mohali, except that Misbah was not lucky enough to have the likes of Afridi/Umar/Razzaq etc. play a blinder like Inzamam.

 

[OS_89]

He played a great knock in the final, and it certainly played a big role in our win, but he played poorly in the semifinal but was saved by a legendary innings by Inzamam.

People like to revise facts but Imran's semifinal innings was no different to Misbah's Mohali, except that Misbah was not lucky enough to have the likes of Afridi/Umar/Razzaq etc. play a blinder like Inzamam.

Very very true. People's hindsight is ridiculous about that Imran innings. His extremely low strike rate put Pakistan in a hole and it seemed as though they were dead and buried. Inzamam played a crazy innings and pulled off a mini-miracle.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Who were the top-5 and how they were selected ?

Wasim Akram, Gilchrist, Viv, Dhoni, Sachin

Viv won by a land slide. No surprise there.
A panel of 50 experts

 

[Mamoon]

Very very true. People's hindsight is ridiculous about that Imran innings. His extremely low strike rate put Pakistan in a hole and it seemed as though they were dead and buried. Inzamam played a crazy innings and pulled off a mini-miracle.

People like to defend that knock by saying that he anchored the innings and enabled Inzamam, Miandad and Moin to finish the game but that is just an apologist statement - at that time, 262 was a very big total; it was the highest total of the World Cup against a non-minnow team and we managed to chase it down.

In relative terms, it is like having to chase a score of 320-330 in a World Cup semifinal. Pakistan were off to a very good start and in the context of the match, Rameez played a very good knock before Imran sucked all the momentum from the innings.

His 44 in 93 deliveries at number 3 in modern terms is roughly equivalent to a 70-80 in 110-120 deliveries when you are chasing 300 and then throw it away. By no means is this anchoring the innings. It is a poor innings that is all.

60 in 37 balls at that time would be equivalent to scoring at 100 in 50 balls today, a blinder of an innings. Now if a team chases down a big total today thanks to its number 6 scoring a 50 ball hundred and a couple of other middle-order batsmen playing quick-fire cameos (Miandad and Moin), how much credit will that number 3 get for his 70-80 runs in 110-120 deliveries and then getting out leaving his team in a spot of bother? very little.

Make no mistake, Imran was a very good ODI batsman for his era. Average of 33 at a strike rate of 73 can be equated to an average of 40 at a strike rate of 80, and he could really belt the ball hard, but his innings in the semifinal was clearly a poor one and there is no shame in admitting that.

 

[Bilal7]

Match winning 70.. he was MOM in that final ? Match winning my foot.

Not every deserving performance has received a MOTM award, since there can only be one. It was a match-winning innings, keep your foot out of it.

No.. Tendulkar was a much better batsman than Imran was a bowler.. it was not 92 - 90.. else, you wouldn't find many people not including Imran in their all-time world XI purely as a bowler. Note the keyword "purely".

Imran was an all-rounder and in order to keep things fair, most people pick him as an all-rounder in their team.

You do realize that he has the best bowling peak of all time, right? He also revolutionized bowling along with Big Delusional, with the advent of reverse-swing. Sachim neither has the greatest peak nor any such influence over batting. Some would say I'm selling Imran short.

 

[tempus123]

Not every deserving performance has received a MOTM award, since there can only be one. It was a match-winning innings, keep your foot out of it.



Imran was an all-rounder and in order to keep things fair, most people pick him as an all-rounder in their team.

You do realize that he has the best bowling peak of all time, right? He also revolutionized bowling along with Big Delusional, with the advent of reverse-swing. Sachim neither has the greatest peak nor any such influence over batting. Some would say I'm selling Imran short.

Self proclaimed gospel truths as criteria. How about 100 centuries which no one has achieved till now including 50 Test centuries, most world cup runs ? Why should "greatest peak" be the criterion but not "consistent longevity" ?

 

[tempus123]

Wasim Akram, Gilchrist, Viv, Dhoni, Sachin

Viv won by a land slide. No surprise there.
A panel of 50 experts

and what does it prove ? There was no doubt Wasim was a better ODI bowler than Murali.. but Murali will get in the ODI side as a spinner.. however Imran is not sure of being picked in ODIs as a bowler/all-rounder.

 

[tempus123]

He played a great knock in the final, and it certainly played a big role in our win, but he played poorly in the semifinal but was saved by a legendary innings by Inzamam.

People like to revise facts but Imran's semifinal innings was no different to Misbah's Mohali, except that Misbah was not lucky enough to have the likes of Afridi/Umar/Razzaq etc. play a blinder like Inzamam.

Some posters claim SF innings was great too which provided platform. Fanboy brigade.

Anyway, I never meant the 70-odd was not a great innings, as it was a lead from the front innings and I would put it somewhere along Dhoni's 2011 WC final innings.

However, it was not greater than 175* of Kapil played in a virtual knockout against Zim which was the contesting point of my argument against [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]'s view which rated Kapil's innings lower.

Here is what he wrote :
Haha. That 175 against the mighty Zimbabwe side was nothing compared to a match-winning innings scored in a world cup final,

 

[Stallion__]

Some posters claim SF innings was great too which provided platform. Fanboy brigade.

Anyway, I never meant the 70-odd was not a great innings, as it was a lead from the front innings and I would put it somewhere along Dhoni's 2011 WC final innings.

However, it was not greater than 175* of Kapil played in a virtual knockout against Zim which was the contesting point of my argument against [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]'s view which rated Kapil's innings lower.

Here is what he wrote :
Haha. That 175 against the mighty Zimbabwe side was nothing compared to a match-winning innings scored in a world cup final,

SF knock wasn't great at all. Its pretty evident that it was Inzi was played get out of the jail innings, else we would surely had lost, and Imran would have been one of the culprits.

Kapil's 175 is the best WC knock in the league matches. The only ones which can be rated higher are WC final centuries by Viv, deSilva, Ponting and Gilly.

 

[tempus123]

SF knock wasn't great at all. Its pretty evident that it was Inzi was played get out of the jail innings, else we would surely had lost, and Imran would have been one of the culprits.

Kapil's 175 is the best WC knock in the league matches. The only ones which can be rated higher are WC final centuries by Viv, deSilva, Ponting and Gilly.

I rate deSilva's final innings in 1996 as probably the best WC innings in KO matches (probably second to Inzamam's SF, and Steve Waugh's 120 against SA in a virtual KO was also very special). Ponting was given a solid platform at 100 runs opening partnership in less than 15 overs and an opposition put on mat by Gilchrist already. Couldn't have found a better time to come in. Not taking anything away from Ponting, but deSilva came at 12/2 I think in final, and 0/2 in SF against India.. his twin match winning innings in SF and final is probably the best WC performance.

 

[Pak Warrior]

I sense alot of emphasis being put on the batting display put on by past great players, and trying to use other players great batting performance as a stepping stone to make their argument that Imran is not that good because he didn't score a million runs over 20 years, or have huge batting score in a final match. But that's the problem with people's rating, they're focusing on one aspect of the game (hitting) and overlooking the other factors necessary to win.

We have to look at a player for everything they encompass, not just batting or bowling to find out who's the GREATEST PLAYER, NOT greatest batsman or greatest bowler...and then trump them up as the greatest PLAYER when they really just excelled at one facet of the game.

A good example would be why Michael Jordan is the GOAT of basketball...and you can miss me with the Kallis comparison and arguments because he doesn't have all of the great qualities that IK has.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

and what does it prove ? There was no doubt Wasim was a better ODI bowler than Murali.. but Murali will get in the ODI side as a spinner.. however Imran is not sure of being picked in ODIs as a bowler/all-rounder.

My point is, you are severely overrating Murali. He was a SC bully sorry to say. I don't see any reason how he can go above Imran and Sachin in your list.

 

[Mamoon]

I rate deSilva's final innings in 1996 as probably the best WC innings in KO matches (probably second to Inzamam's SF, and Steve Waugh's 120 against SA in a virtual KO was also very special). Ponting was given a solid platform at 100 runs opening partnership in less than 15 overs and an opposition put on mat by Gilchrist already. Couldn't have found a better time to come in. Not taking anything away from Ponting, but deSilva came at 12/2 I think in final, and 0/2 in SF against India.. his twin match winning innings in SF and final is probably the best WC performance.

Although not as great, but I think Gambhir's 97 in the 2011 final is a highly underrated effort, because Dhoni stole the thunder.

Yes India had enough firepower to win the match any way, but had he not managed to hold the innings together for 41 overs, the match could have been much tighter.

He clearly made life easy for Dhoni and ensured that losing Tendulkar and Sehwag in the first 6 overs did not prove costly.

 

[tempus123]

Although not as great, but I think Gambhir's 97 in the 2011 final is a highly underrated effort, because Dhoni stole the thunder.

Yes India had enough firepower to win the match any way, but had he not managed to hold the innings together for 41 overs, the match could have been much tighter.

He clearly made life easy for Dhoni and ensured that losing Tendulkar and Sehwag in the first 6 overs did not prove costly.

Gambhir's 97 was a better innings than Dhoni's but because Dhoni put himself at risk by promoting himself up the order to nullify Murali (because Yuvraj had problems against him) I think that decision was what made it all better.

 

[tempus123]

My point is, you are severely overrating Murali. He was a SC bully sorry to say. I don't see any reason how he can go above Imran and Sachin in your list.

He went above Imran and Sachin, marginally though, and strictly my personal opinion, is not because he was a better skilled player.. his 800+500 wickets are unsurpassed though and probably will remain so.

However, while both Imran and Sachin had other quality bowlers/batsmen at their disposal, Murali virtually carried SL bowling on his shoulders. He was in fact the one man army.

 

[Mamoon]

Gambhir's 97 was a better innings than Dhoni's but because Dhoni put himself at risk by promoting himself up the order to nullify Murali (because Yuvraj had problems against him) I think that decision was what made it all better.

Yes, that is why it is a very highly rated knock. He was in poor form throughout the tournament and promoted himself up the order against an in-form batsman, and as captain he took it on himself to soak all the pressure and take the team home, rather than hide in the dugout.

 

[Monsee]

We should rename the thread: Tempus123's attempt at 'Anyone But Imran'!

 

[tempus123]

We should rename the thread: Tempus123's attempt at 'Anyone But Imran'!

Well, it would not suit your tinted glasses but I have a poster of him (Imran) at my place, and he is my most favourite player in the world ever, and I hate Murali's smile, and consider Sachin a bit selfish to my liking.

I am just trying to be objective here..

 

[tempus123]

Yes, that is why it is a very highly rated knock. He was in poor form throughout the tournament and promoted himself up the order against an in-form batsman, and as captain he took it on himself to soak all the pressure and take the team home, rather than hide in the dugout.

Yes, and it helped that both Gambhir and Dhoni were good players of spin, compared to Yuvraj, and they both played Murali well. To be honest, Murali wasn't 100% fit.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

He went above Imran and Sachin, marginally though, and strictly my personal opinion, is not because he was a better skilled player.. his 800+500 wickets are unsurpassed though and probably will remain so.

However, while both Imran and Sachin had other quality bowlers/batsmen at their disposal, Murali virtually carried SL bowling on his shoulders. He was in fact the one man army.

Sachin in the 90s had almost no support from other batsmen.
Imran had no support in the 80s as a bowler. Sarfraz nawaz had already retired. And Wasim wasn't considered a threat until the late 80s.
It can be argued that Murali had support from Vaas who was a pretty damn good bowler himself

 

[tempus123]

Sachin in the 90s had almost no support from other batsmen.
Imran had no support in the 80s as a bowler. Sarfraz nawaz had already retired. And Wasim wasn't considered a threat until the late 80s.
It can be argued that Murali had support from Vaas who was a pretty damn good bowler himself

No.. in the 90s Sachin too had support..at least at home.. Kambli was playing well, so was Azhar. Tendulkar was the best batsman by a mile, but it was not that others were not supporting him.

Murali played a lone hand.. Vaas did support though.

 

[Belawal2014]

Well, it would not suit your tinted glasses but I have a poster of him (Imran) at my place, and he is my most favourite player in the world ever, and I hate Murali's smile, and consider Sachin a bit selfish to my liking.

I am just trying to be objective here..

Pic or it didn't happen

 

[ChachaCricket]

Pic or it didn't happen

got 'im

 

[Bilal7]

Self proclaimed gospel truths as criteria. How about 100 centuries which no one has achieved till now including 50 Test centuries, most world cup runs ? Why should "greatest peak" be the criterion but not "consistent longevity" ?

Not self-proclaimed. I didn't come up with the Barnes Standard, nor am I the statistician that collected Imran's stats.

100 centuries is a record about longevity, not quality. Any great player who get an opportunity to have as long a career as Tendulker's will be in with a shot. Similar to Murali's 800 wickets.

Sachin = Imran, as far as their primary fields are concerned.

Some posters claim SF innings was great too which provided platform. Fanboy brigade.

Anyway, I never meant the 70-odd was not a great innings, as it was a lead from the front innings and I would put it somewhere along Dhoni's 2011 WC final innings.

However, it was not greater than 175* of Kapil played in a virtual knockout against Zim which was the contesting point of my argument against [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]'s view which rated Kapil's innings lower.

Here is what he wrote :
Haha. That 175 against the mighty Zimbabwe side was nothing compared to a match-winning innings scored in a world cup final,

It wasn't, I ask you again to not kid yourself. Imran's knock was played in the WORLD CUP FINAL, that alone puts it ahead of any minnow-bashing done during the group stages.

And yes, Zimbabwe's bowling was minnow-level, even back then.

 

[tempus123]

Pic or it didn't happen

Yes, don't have enough time to take the pic and upload here.

 

[Bilal7]

He went above Imran and Sachin, marginally though, and strictly my personal opinion, is not because he was a better skilled player.. his 800+500 wickets are unsurpassed though and probably will remain so.

However, while both Imran and Sachin had other quality bowlers/batsmen at their disposal, Murali virtually carried SL bowling on his shoulders. He was in fact the one man army.

Not at all. Sanga, Dilshan, Mahela, De Silva and that pacer who's name I forget, have all assisted Murali over the years. Imran carried the team during his peak too, so did Sachin.

 

[Belawal2014]

Yes, don't have enough time to take the pic and upload here.

Mhm, enough time to fill almost 4 pages on this topic though?

 

[tempus123]

Not self-proclaimed. I didn't come up with the Barnes Standard, nor am I the statistician that collected Imran's stats.

100 centuries is a record about longevity, not quality. Any great player who get an opportunity to have as long a career as Tendulker's will be in with a shot. Similar to Murali's 800 wickets.

Sachin = Imran, as far as their primary fields are concerned.



It wasn't, I ask you again to not kid yourself. Imran's knock was played in the WORLD CUP FINAL, that alone puts it ahead of any minnow-bashing done during the group stages.

And yes, Zimbabwe's bowling was minnow-level, even back then.

Any player will have scored 100 centuries if "given the chance" to play so long.. now I have heard everything.

On Kapil's 175.. please go and read more about it. India was 17/4 and 30/5 I believe, and was on the verge of being KO. It was a single handed turn around. If there ever was a one man match winning performance in WC, it was that. No way in the world you could say that about 70-odd in final.. which was a lesser innings than some of the other WC innings played, let alone in final. Gambhir and Dhoni's 90s in WC 2011 final were better than Imran's 70-odd, but you could claim a case against them. No way against that 175.

You will have to be a member of fanboy brigade if you refute the above.

 

[tempus123]

Mhm, enough time to fill almost 4 pages on this topic though?

Yes.. depends on what is more important to prove, in my opinion.

1. I love Imran, seriously I do, but proving it to the world will require a few valuable minutes of my life to be spent.

2. Those minutes spent will have very less return on investment, it will not lend credibility to my arguments for-and-against him.

3. I am anyway against providing such kind of support to my arguments. My arguments should stand on their own, not be given backup of proving my favouritism.

4. You see, I spent 4 points writing why I can't post his pic in my room here rather than spending those minutes actually posting the pic

 

[Belawal2014]

Yes.. depends on what is more important to prove, in my opinion.

1. I love Imran, seriously I do, but proving it to the world will require a few valuable minutes of my life to be spent.

2. Those minutes spent will have very less return on investment, it will not lend credibility to my arguments for-and-against him.

3. I am anyway against providing such kind of support to my arguments. My arguments should stand on their own, not be given backup of proving my favouritism.

4. You see, I spent 4 points writing why I can't post his pic in my room here rather than actually posting it

Carry on fighting, soldier.

 

[tempus123]

Not at all. Sanga, Dilshan, Mahela, De Silva and that pacer who's name I forget, have all assisted Murali over the years. Imran carried the team during his peak too, so did Sachin.

Sorry.. don't agree. The players you named supported him in SL bowling ? Is the pacer you forgot Vaas ?

 

[tempus123]

Carry on fighting, soldier.

Thanks for the wishes.. hopefully I will set the world right.

 

[Bilal7]

Any player will have scored 100 centuries if "given the chance" to play so long.. now I have heard everything.

On Kapil's 175.. please go and read more about it. India was 17/4 and 30/5 I believe, and was on the verge of being KO. It was a single handed turn around. If there ever was a one man match winning performance in WC, it was that. No way in the world you could say that about 70-odd in final.. which was a lesser innings than some of the other WC innings played, let alone in final. Gambhir and Dhoni's 90s in WC 2011 final were better than Imran's 70-odd, but you could claim a case against them. No way against that 175.

You will have to be a member of fanboy brigade if you refute the above.

Yes, I will have to be a member of the fanboy brigade if I let my opinions be heard. I should just let you continue voicing your own, unchecked, since you are obviously not a fan-boy.

It was a great innings, I agree with that much. Possibly the greatest by any Indian along with Dhoni's 90 in the 2011 final. It was still scored against Zimbabwe on a docile pitch, in a group game, against harmless bowlers. How the Indian batsmen managed to give their wickets away so easily is a mystery that I don't have any way of solving.

Remember Younis Khan's 200 against Zimbabwe, in a test match a couple of years ago? It was a superb innings and Pakistan would have surely been white-washed by the minnows if Khan hadn't pulled that one out. It will never be praised and lauded as much as his double against Australia because of who the opponent was.

Khan's double does hold a special place in the hearts of Pakistan fans, just like Kapil's in the hearts of India fans but not for fans of other teams.

 

[Bilal7]

Sorry.. don't agree. The players you named supported him in SL bowling ? Is the pacer you forgot Vaas ?

Yes, Vaas, thankyou. A lack of competition for wickets helped Murali get those "800+500" wickets. He was treated to a buffet every time a touring team started their second innings on a Sri Lankan pitch. Boy, did he feast to his heart's content.

Yes.. depends on what is more important to prove, in my opinion.

1. I love Imran, seriously I do, but proving it to the world will require a few valuable minutes of my life to be spent.

2. Those minutes spent will have very less return on investment, it will not lend credibility to my arguments for-and-against him.

3. I am anyway against providing such kind of support to my arguments. My arguments should stand on their own, not be given backup of proving my favouritism.

4. You see, I spent 4 points writing why I can't post his pic in my room here rather than spending those minutes actually posting the pic

I love Sachin too, I really do. I just don't rate him as good as Imran.

 

[tempus123]

Yes, Vaas, thankyou. A lack of competition for wickets helped Murali get those "800+500" wickets. He was treated to a buffet every time a touring team started their second innings on a Sri Lankan pitch. Boy, did he feast to his heart's content.



I love Sachin too, I really do. I just don't rate him as good as Imran.

The fact that Murali was almost unplayable at home, while not "failing" anywhere apart from India and Australia proves he was not a home-turf-bully.

You may love Sachin, but I don't. He is not my favourite player in the world. The highly coveted title of favourite-player-of-tempus goes to Warne, and Imran, both cheaters though.

Sachin was a bit selfish to my liking.. his 100th 100 just sealed the deal for me as a self serving batsman, intention wise.

 

[Bilal7]

The fact that Murali was almost unplayable at home, while not "failing" anywhere apart from India and Australia proves he was not a home-turf-bully.

You may love Sachin, but I don't. He is not my favourite player in the world. The highly coveted title of favourite-player-of-tempus goes to Warne, and Imran, both cheaters though.

Sachin was a bit selfish to my liking.. his 100th 100 just sealed the deal for me as a self serving batsman, intention wise.

Imran, Warne and Sachin all cheated. You must have made an honest mistake in not mentioning the Indian along with the other "cheaters".

Murali failed in the country that had the best players of spin, and he failed in a country that had the most difficult pitches for spinners. Where else could he fail? I don't think he was a FTB either but he wasn't better than Imran.

 

[Pak Warrior]

Imran Khan STILL >>>>>Everyone Else

 

[tempus123]

Imran, Warne and Sachin all cheated. You must have made an honest mistake in not mentioning the Indian along with the other "cheaters".

Murali failed in the country that had the best players of spin, and he failed in a country that had the most difficult pitches for spinners. Where else could he fail? I don't think he was a FTB either but he wasn't better than Imran.

No, it was not an honest mistake for the following two reasons.

1. There is no reason to mention Sachin in the same sentence I am talking about my favourite players, as he is not my favourite player to start with. I am not supposed to name all the cheaters in the same sentence. I just mentioned a caveat that both my favourite players cheated.

2. Sachin did NOT cheat.

 

[tempus123]

Imran, Warne and Sachin all cheated. You must have made an honest mistake in not mentioning the Indian along with the other "cheaters".

Murali failed in the country that had the best players of spin, and he failed in a country that had the most difficult pitches for spinners. Where else could he fail? I don't think he was a FTB either but he wasn't better than Imran.

The argument you hold against Murali, holds true for Warne as well. In fact, no spinner succeeded in India in that period when India produced quality players of spin bowling, bar Saqlain, who had all the Indian batsmen under the web, including Tendulkar.

 

[Haroon786]

Tempus, where do you rate Sobers as an all time cricketer ?

 

[tempus123]

Tempus, where do you rate Sobers as an all time cricketer ?

Personally below Imran with captaincy. Remove the captaincy, and probably almost equal to him, or a touch better.

I haven't followed Sobers very much, to be honest.

 

[Haroon786]

Personally below Imran with captaincy. Remove the captaincy, and probably almost equal to him, or a touch better.

I haven't followed Sobers very much, to be honest.

You rate Murali over Sobers/IK ?

 

[Monsee]

No, it was not an honest mistake for the following two reasons.

1. There is no reason to mention Sachin in the same sentence I am talking about my favourite players, as he is not my favourite player to start with. I am not supposed to name all the cheaters in the same sentence. I just mentioned a caveat that both my favourite players cheated.

2. Sachin did NOT cheat.

Advise if he was just in 'Love' with the ball and did not cheat with it, how?

 

[tempus123]

Advise if he was just in 'Love' with the ball and did not cheat with it, how?

Tell me something new.

 

[OS_89]

SF knock wasn't great at all. Its pretty evident that it was Inzi was played get out of the jail innings, else we would surely had lost, and Imran would have been one of the culprits.

Kapil's 175 is the best WC knock in the league matches. The only ones which can be rated higher are WC final centuries by Viv, deSilva, Ponting and Gilly.

Although not as great, but I think Gambhir's 97 in the 2011 final is a highly underrated effort, because Dhoni stole the thunder.

Yes India had enough firepower to win the match any way, but had he not managed to hold the innings together for 41 overs, the match could have been much tighter.

He clearly made life easy for Dhoni and ensured that losing Tendulkar and Sehwag in the first 6 overs did not prove costly.

Would also add Clive Lloyd's hundred in the first final. Scoring 102 in 85 balls against Lillee-Thomson-Walker-Gilmour in a WC final coming in at 50-3 is a special effort.

I also agree that Gabhir's knock is extremely underrated. Shame that Dhoni's innings overshadowed it completely and got all the plaudits from fans and commentators.

 

[Bilal7]

No, it was not an honest mistake for the following two reasons.

1. There is no reason to mention Sachin in the same sentence I am talking about my favourite players, as he is not my favourite player to start with. I am not supposed to name all the cheaters in the same sentence. I just mentioned a caveat that both my favourite players cheated.

2. Sachin did NOT cheat.

Tell me something new.

Huh? Does that picture not tell you that Sachin was tampering with the ball? It's blatantly obvious to me. Sachin did cheat.

 

[OS_89]

Sachin did cheat. Even as a massive Sachin fan I agree. He tampered with the seam. He was lifting it to get it to be more pronounced. Very next over Tendulkar started bowling massive reverse swingers somehow. Coincidence? No way.

Even Tony Greig, as big a Sachin fan as can be, said it was clear he tampered.

 

[Bilal7]

It was hilarious seeing the whole of India take up arms against anyone who called out Sachin's cheating. Even today his delusional fans are firm in stating that he's innocent and was simply feeling the ball, to see how it feels and if it's heart beat was fine.

 

[tempus123]

Would also add Clive Lloyd's hundred in the first final. Scoring 102 in 85 balls against Lillee-Thomson-Walker-Gilmour in a WC final coming in at 50-3 is a special effort.

I also agree that Gabhir's knock is extremely underrated. Shame that Dhoni's innings overshadowed it completely and got all the plaudits from fans and commentators.

Yes Lloyd's innings was good too.

Not sure about Dhoni's innings being regarded as great, as something of a shame.

 

[tempus123]

Huh? Does that picture not tell you that Sachin was tampering with the ball? It's blatantly obvious to me. Sachin did cheat.

You would be advised to read about the incident and also the meaning of cheating. The picture is not revealing something new which we all don't already know.

 

[tempus123]

Sachin did cheat. Even as a massive Sachin fan I agree. He tampered with the seam. He was lifting it to get it to be more pronounced. Very next over Tendulkar started bowling massive reverse swingers somehow. Coincidence? No way.

Even Tony Greig, as big a Sachin fan as can be, said it was clear he tampered.

Tendulkar stood accused of not informing the umpires he was cleaning the ball under Law 42.3 (b), rather than tampering with it.

 

[Bilal7]

You would be advised to read about the incident and also the meaning of cheating. The picture is not revealing something new which we all don't already know.

What do you mean by this? Anyway, Sachin's blatant cheating is not the topic of this thread.

 

[Bilal7]

Tendulkar stood accused of not informing the umpires he was cleaning the ball under Law 42.3 (b), rather than tampering with it.

Ball looked totally clean to me. How convenient that he was cleaning the few specs of dirt that had embedded themselves inside the seam.

 

[tempus123]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/nov/29/cricket2

In a transparent attempt to appease the Indian cricket board, the International Cricket Council today announced that Sachin Tendulkar's offence in the second Test against South Africa was cleaning the ball without the umpire's permission rather than ball tampering.

"It's still an offence but it's not as serious as ball tampering," said ICC spokesman Mark Harrison.

 

[Stallion__]

Would also add Clive Lloyd's hundred in the first final. Scoring 102 in 85 balls against Lillee-Thomson-Walker-Gilmour in a WC final coming in at 50-3 is a special effort.

I also agree that Gabhir's knock is extremely underrated. Shame that Dhoni's innings overshadowed it completely and got all the plaudits from fans and commentators.

Yeah, recollected LLoyd's hundred after posting that. Infact there are few innings in knock-outs that can be rate higher, but in the league matches, I think Kapil's was best.

 

[tempus123]

Ball looked totally clean to me. How convenient that he was cleaning the few specs of dirt that had embedded themselves inside the seam.

Please read more about the incident.

 

[saadsahabjee]

*-World Cup Winner

*-As Captain AVG 52 as a Batsman and 19 as Bowler for almost 50 test matches with 11 MOM And 8 MOS Awards

*-Bowling avg of 21 Against Mighty Westindies 80 wickets in 10 Matches

*-From 1980 to 85 --- Avg 43 As a Batsman and 15 as a bowler

*-His worst bowling average against any team in any country is 28.

 

[OS_89]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/nov/29/cricket2

In a transparent attempt to appease the Indian cricket board, the International Cricket Council today announced that Sachin Tendulkar's offence in the second Test against South Africa was cleaning the ball without the umpire's permission rather than ball tampering.

"It's still an offence but it's not as serious as ball tampering," said ICC spokesman Mark Harrison.

Ironic that you didn't read the very first sentence of the paragraph you quoted.

In a transparent attempt to appease the Indian cricket board

 

[Bilal7]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/nov/29/cricket2

In a transparent attempt to appease the Indian cricket board, the International Cricket Council today announced that Sachin Tendulkar's offence in the second Test against South Africa was cleaning the ball without the umpire's permission rather than ball tampering.

"It's still an offence but it's not as serious as ball tampering," said ICC spokesman Mark Harrison.

Lol. He was clearly cheating but the ICC officials couldn't handle the pressure of a billion people burning their effigies.

 

[tempus123]

Ironic that you didn't read the very first sentence of the paragraph you quoted.

No, I read full and quoted relevant details. The passage you are referring to is the newspaper's personal opinion, not the ICC's.

Since he was not booked under the tampering offense by the ICC, the case of cheating stands null and void.

 

[tempus123]

lol. He was clearly cheating but the icc officials couldn't handle the pressure of a billion people burning their effigies.

ok.

 

[Monsee]

Sachin did cheat. Even as a massive Sachin fan I agree. He tampered with the seam. He was lifting it to get it to be more pronounced. Very next over Tendulkar started bowling massive reverse swingers somehow. Coincidence? No way.

Even Tony Greig, as big a Sachin fan as can be, said it was clear he tampered.

Even one match report did say that all the fast bowlers could not buy any swing that Mr. lalloo Panjoo bowling started getting...must be a mere coincidence, right?

 

[Sachin136]

Even one match report did say that all the fast bowlers could not buy any swing that Mr. lalloo Panjoo bowling started getting...must be a mere coincidence, right?

In one of the Ashes matches (I think the 4th one where Stokes got his 6-fer) Stokes was getting way more swing than any other bowler. Should we assume that he was ball-tampering?

 

[Monsee]

Srinath, Agarkar, Shaun Pollock, Nitini, Kallis, Klusener, and Hayward...all failed against the great Phaast Bowler bowling huge bannana in swingers. India should have played him as a phaast bowler, what a wasted talent!

 

[Monsee]

In one of the Ashes matches (I think the 4th one where Stokes got his 6-fer) Stokes was getting way more swing than any other bowler. Should we assume that he was ball-tampering?

Laanat aisi logic per...Stokes is a proper all rounder and probably better than most Indian bowlers, bowling almost at fast medium speed...no comparison!

 

[Monsee]

"On the third day Tendulkar had bowled four overs of gentle medium pace but had almost immediately started swinging the ball more than any other bowler. The local TV producer instructed cameramen to zoom in on Tendulkar's hands, ostensibly to check what grip he was using. Instead, on two occasions he was spotted working on the seam of the ball with the thumb and forefinger of his left hand. The commentators went into overdrive and close-up replays were shown ad nauseam."

Blindness at it's best