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[VIDEOS] Imran Khan is the greatest cricketer ever

[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION], I've read the first post of that thread. How is that in any way a troll post?
 
Imran Khan is the real deal. The man, the enigma, the myth, the beast, the GOAT, the spine-chiller, the lion of Lahore, the real BABBAR SHER.
 
Belawal2014 said:
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION], I've read the first post of that thread. How is that in any way a troll post?
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He is saying that the thread proves that Monsee was banned before. He isn't saying that the thread itself is a troll post.
 
Sachin136 said:
He is saying that the thread proves that Monsee was banned before. He isn't saying that the thread itself is a troll post.
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Okay, but how is this relevant to all this? And where is the correlation between being a troll and being banned?
 
Belawal2014 said:
Okay, but how is this relevant to all this? And where is the correlation between being a troll and being banned?
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Maybe he assumed he was banned for excessive trolling, I don't know. But just read some of his other posts... You can decide if you think he is trolling or not.

I've seen 5 threads be derailed by discussions of trolling and insecurities in the last week alone. If its a Sachin thread and no one has any actual evidence against him then they call the poster an insecure "Sachinista" and vice versa. They should just disallow discussion of fan bases in threads which have nothing to do with it.
 
Sachin136 said:
Maybe he assumed he was banned for excessive trolling, I don't know. But just read some of his other posts... You can decide if you think he is trolling or not.

I've seen 5 threads be derailed by discussions of trolling and insecurities in the last week alone. If its a Sachin thread and no one has any actual evidence against him then they call the poster an insecure "Sachinista" and vice versa. They should just disallow discussion of fan bases in threads which have nothing to do with it.
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Meh, I don't really get involved in such threads. I only make the odd comment here and there.

Besides, when you've got religious fans of great cricketers, i.e. ImmyK and SRT, there's no reasoning with them.
 
Bilal7 said:
It is absurd to say that Flintoff was a true all-rounder during his peak and then say that Imran wasn't. He averaged a bloody 50+ with the bat during the 10 years of his peak, where he was one of the best pacers in the world, if not the best, and is also Pakistan's and arguably Asia's greatest captain.

You are spouting pure rubbish here, I'm afraid. Imran might have some fanboys but you're one of his haters, posing as a fan.
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Oops.. I meant Sobers and not Imran.
 
IndianWillow said:
Klusener was a very good bowler. I have seen him bowl 150k thunderbolts and he could swing both ways. Perhaps you didn't realize that Klusener was a bowler to start with and began his journey as a bowler who batted as #11 batsman in FC cricket. He batted at the positions #9-10 when he began his international career. He began his test debut with a spectacular 8/64 (on a batting paradise, actually) against a strong Indian batting lineup and set up a famous and landslide victory at Kolkota. He even competed with Donald and was expected to become a leading pace bowler. In 1998, he sustained a serious ankle injury that reduced his pace considerably, so he stopped focusing on bowling and he started focusing more on batting and became a star batsman in 1999. Klusener had enormous ability with bat and ball, but his career was cut short by injury. He wasn't a slogger, he was more like Yuvraj - a clean striker of the ball - yet he could score very fast.
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That's the problem with looking at scoreboards.. True he got 8 wickets in Kolkata Test, but no one would have kept awake in the next Test fearing facing him, and Azhar took him to the cleaners. The thing with Flintoff was that every match during the 2004-06 he played in, people were wary he could take the match away purely on one skill. He demonstrated that in Ashes. He couldn't carry it on.. and it's not about the overall performance and average, but fear you create in the minds of opposition.
 
I wonder if moderators should change the thread title to be a bit more reasonable, adding "one of" may be ?
 
tempus123 said:
I wonder if moderators should change the thread title to be a bit more reasonable, adding "one of" may be ?
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Thread titles aren't changed on the whims of posters.

Besides the title is credible because Imran Khan the cricketer (fast bowler+bowler+captain+fielder) doesn't really have much competition other than Sobers and Miller.
 
Haroon786 said:
Thread titles aren't changed on the whims of posters.

Besides the title is credible because Imran Khan the cricketer (fast bowler+bowler+captain+fielder) doesn't really have much competition other than Sobers and Miller.
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OK.. I don't care for personal opinions hailing Imran as the greatest human in the world ever, but in all honesty the thread title has been proven wrong.
 
tempus123 said:
OK.. I don't care for personal opinions hailing Imran as the greatest human in the world ever, but in all honesty the thread title has been proven wrong.
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Based on what ? I haven't seen any concrete evidence apart from some bias from Indian posters.
 
Haroon786 said:
Based on what ? I haven't seen any concrete evidence apart from some bias from Indian posters.
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You haven't read a lot of Pakistani views on this forum.. even the diehard fanboys brigade is not claiming this. BTW, you are free to refute my suggestion and say the OP is justified.
 
tempus123 said:
You haven't read a lot of Pakistani views on this forum.. even the diehard fanboys brigade is not claiming this. BTW, you are free to refute my suggestion and say the OP is justified.
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I'm fine with people saying that he's up there with Sobers or joint with Sobers and behind Bradman but to say specialists like Viv and Warne are better cricketers than IK - NO!
 
tempus123 said:
I don't think Klusener or Kallis would keep the opposition awake with their bowling. Flintoff did meet the criteria, because there was no big weakness in his game. Kambli example was flawed.
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Flintoff was good for one year. Creating fear is not the end of all.. Taking wicket is.
 
tempus123 said:
That's the problem with looking at scoreboards.. True he got 8 wickets in Kolkata Test, but no one would have kept awake in the next Test fearing facing him, and Azhar took him to the cleaners. The thing with Flintoff was that every match during the 2004-06 he played in, people were wary he could take the match away purely on one skill. He demonstrated that in Ashes. He couldn't carry it on.. and it's not about the overall performance and average, but fear you create in the minds of opposition.
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But you missed what I said. Klusener was originally an express pacer (he bowled faster than Freddie too). The injury in 1998 reduced him into a secondary bowler for his team, so he began to pay more attention to batting. If you can, try to check out old videos of Indian tour of SA in 1997 - you can see how dangerous Klusener was with his deadly and fast bouncers and he troubled all batsmen. (even though he was inexperienced). He bowled some of the fastest deliveries in that tour and he often beat Donald with pace.
 
IndianWillow said:
But you missed what I said. Klusener was originally an express pacer (he bowled faster than Freddie too). The injury in 1998 reduced him into a secondary bowler for his team, so he began to pay more attention to batting. If you can, try to check out old videos of Indian tour of SA in 1997 - you can see how dangerous Klusener was with his deadly and fast bouncers and he troubled all batsmen. (even though he was inexperienced). He bowled some of the fastest deliveries in that tour and he often beat Donald with pace.
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I didn't miss it. I only concentrated on central part of your argument. Whether he was beating a few dibbly Indian batsmen who never were comfortable in SA.. (got out for 100 and 66 in a Test) doesn't prove much.

The fact is there was no time when Klusener was considered a serious threat to the batsmen, and if it was, it was too short a duration to make sense. The Ashes 2005 was one full series where Flintoff showed what he was capable of, and since and even before then, every team was taking his batting and bowling both very seriously. I remember people talking Flintoff is yet to come, and match is still not lost. Don't remember anyone claiming the same for Kallis or Klusener.
 
tempus123 said:
I didn't miss it. I only concentrated on central part of your argument. Whether he was beating a few dibbly Indian batsmen who never were comfortable in SA.. (got out for 100 and 66 in a Test) doesn't prove much.

The fact is there was no time when Klusener was considered a serious threat to the batsmen, and if it was, it was too short a duration to make sense. The Ashes 2005 was one full series where Flintoff showed what he was capable of, and since and even before then, every team was taking his batting and bowling both very seriously. I remember people talking Flintoff is yet to come, and match is still not lost. Don't remember anyone claiming the same for Kallis or Klusener.
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Flintoff had three five wicket hauls in 79 tests. If anything, he was feared for nothing, because he was never going to run down sides. Yes, may be he had one or two good series (I gave the example of Kambli to show you a good comparison, because Kambli as a batsman enjoyed that kind of fearsome reputation in 1993 when he averaged a Bradmanesue 113 with the bat! ). Anyway I fail to see the relevance of Flintoff in this thread. A peak of six months or one year can never be considered seriously.
 
IndianWillow said:
Flintoff had three five wicket hauls in 79 tests. If anything, he was feared for nothing, because he was never going to run down sides. Yes, may be he had one or two good series (I gave the example of Kambli to show you a good comparison, because Kambli as a batsman enjoyed that kind of fearsome reputation in 1993 when he averaged a Bradmanesue 113 with the bat! ). Anyway I fail to see the relevance of Flintoff in this thread. A peak of six months or one year can never be considered seriously.
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You have a habit of looking everything in terms of stats. 3 5-wicket hauls in 79 tests is because he was injury prone and wasn't successful to keep his aura for longer.

It's not about wickets or runs alone, but having the ability to do both with impact which will create fear in opposition.
 
Haroon786 said:
I'm fine with people saying that he's up there with Sobers or joint with Sobers and behind Bradman but to say specialists like Viv and Warne are better cricketers than IK - NO!
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Either way, it's proven that he is not the greatest cricketer, but one of the. What's your point ?
 
Imran is no doubt one of the greatest cricketers to have graced the game ,one of the best fast-bowlers of all time,arguably the best fast bowler and all-rounder at his peak in the world and one of the best captain sof all time.Statistically he could rank amongst the top 5 paceman of alltime and amongst the top 3 all-rounders.

Cricket is not all about stats.If so then Kallis should be rated either 2nd to Bradman or at the top ,Sydney Barnes rated the best bowler of all,Mulrlitharan the best spinner or Sangakaara the best left-handed batsmen of all.However waht has to be analyzed is overall impact,percentage contribution in team ,strength of opposition played against and team played for etc.Imran was a great match-winner but marginally edged by Viv Richards as match-winner.Viv could change the complexion of game like a dynamite exploding more than Imran could do with the ball and was a better one day cricketer.Imran also did not equal Tendulkar's or Jack Hobbs 's phenomenal longevity at the top in both forms of cricket let alone test cricket,Sober's ability to turn games or series with both bat and ball at the same time,Bradman's domination with the bat or W.G.Grace's impact on the game as a cricketer.Hobbs's amassing 117 centuries after the 1st world war or 98 after the age of 40 and Sachin scoring 100 International centuries is something that may never be surpassed.Infact in certain ways Tendulkar or Hobbs could even emulate Bradman.

Personally I do not bracket Imran with a Grace,Bradman or Sobers but in competition with Jack Hobbs,Warne,Viv Richards,Sachin Tendulkar,Walter Hammond Etc.Geoof Armstrong placed Imran at 5th ahead of Hobbs,Tendulkar and Viv Richards.In my evaluation Viv and Sachin just nose Imran by inches or even Warne.I would not debate Imran against W.G,Sobers or Bradman but would consider Imran against Viv,Sachin or Hobbs.What may decide the issue in favour of all those perhaps adding even Walter Hammond is impact.If Imran won against them captaincy would be a major factor.If you considered only test cricket then Imran had a greater chance of winning the battle against Viv ,Sachin and Hobbs.Tentatively my list would be Grace,Sobers,Bradman,Warne,Hobbs,Viv Richards,Tendulkar,Hammond and Imran.In all probability Imran would make the 2nd xi but not the 1st as Sobers is already there as an all-rounder.If you anlayze eras of cricket history and oposition then even Bradman's absolute place at no 1 can be disputed.As a pure match-winner Imran would only be behind Bradman,Sobers,Viv Richards and possibly Gilchrist or Warne.
 
tempus123 said:
There is no universally accepted criterion, and thus no all-accepted single GOAT.

But no expert worth his salt has looked past Bradman and Sobers as the two all-time GOATs.
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Since there's no 'universally accepted' criteria (no one is judged on just one criterion) it stands to reason to not to see expert opinion as a factor either.
 
tempus123 said:
Yes, but assuming there is, Bradman, Richards, Warne and Sobers lay a heavy claim to it. These 4 will find their place in almost any good known expert's first choice Test world XI.
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So what is so outlandish about Imran not having a claim to that title? Richards and Imran were held in the same regard by many during their era. His accolades are near impeccable. Since their is "NO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED CRITERION" as you say, why can we not include intangible qualities such as leadership and sportmanship (yes, Imran cheated in a domestic match but he's had his fair share of better moments). Add that to his already impressive resume.
 
TheNightWatchman said:
So what is so outlandish about Imran not having a claim to that title? Richards and Imran were held in the same regard by many during their era. His accolades are near impeccable. Since their is "NO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED CRITERION" as you say, why can we not include intangible qualities such as leadership and sportmanship (yes, Imran cheated in a domestic match but he's had his fair share of better moments). Add that to his already impressive resume.
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I am not saying Imran doesn't have claim to it, but will be very difficult to go past Viv for example. Even if he went ahead of Viv by the grace of IFB (Imran Fanboys Brigade), there will be a wall in Sobers there standing.

If you can let me know a single world XI outside IFBs which contain Imran ahead of Sobers, I can accept you are right.
 
tempus123 said:
Oops.. I meant Sobers and not Imran.
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You meant to say that Sobers never frightened the opposition with his batting? Do you know who Sobers was?

Going by your criteria, Imran and Miller were the only two players who could heavily contribute towards a win, with either of their skills.
 
Bilal7 said:
You meant to say that Sobers never frightened the opposition with his batting? Do you know who Sobers was?

Going by your criteria, Imran and Miller were the only two players who could heavily contribute towards a win, with either of their skills.
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Sobers with his bowling.
 
tempus123 said:
I am not saying Imran doesn't have claim to it, but will be very difficult to go past Viv for example. Even if he went ahead of Viv by the grace of IFB (Imran Fanboys Brigade), there will be a wall in Sobers there standing.

If you can let me know a single world XI outside IFBs which contain Imran ahead of Sobers, I can accept you are right.
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Imran's never been chosen ahead of Sobers in XIs but he's been put with him.
But then you contradict yourself!!! You say earlier in the thread that there is "NO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED CRITERION" so why are you basing your choice on world XIs? Furthermore you contradict again when you say " Cricketers need to play BOTH ODIs and Tests to be judged as GOAT". Sobers didn't play ODIs....
 
tempus123 said:
I am not saying Imran doesn't have claim to it, but will be very difficult to go past Viv for example. Even if he went ahead of Viv by the grace of IFB (Imran Fanboys Brigade), there will be a wall in Sobers there standing.

If you can let me know a single world XI outside IFBs which contain Imran ahead of Sobers, I can accept you are right.
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Sobers may have been a better allrounder but Imran was the better cricketer.
 
Tempus123 should get the Ironman award from PP he's been fighting for his side of the debate for like 5 days..I can send you some redbulls and protein bars if u need...lemme know
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Imran's never been chosen ahead of Sobers in XIs but he's been put with him.
But then you contradict yourself!!! You say earlier in the thread that there is "NO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED CRITERION" so why are you basing your choice on world XIs? Furthermore you contradict again when you say " Cricketers need to play BOTH ODIs and Tests to be judged as GOAT". Sobers didn't play ODIs....
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I am not contradicting myself. I don't accept anyone as GOAT, but you asked me.. so I said "assuming" if there is one, it would either be Sobers or Bradman, closely followed by Viv or Warne.

My personal opinion doesn't matter here. I am talking about collective opinions of experts around the world.

I also don't think experts put Imran along with Sobers in their XIs (except one or two like Benaud) because it will be having two all rounfers.. in any case if they had one place, they would pick Sobers.

Not sure what's your point. Whichever way you look at it, unless one is member of IFB, Imran can't be called the greatest ever Test cricketer, let alone greatest ever cricketer. If you include ODIs, Imran would fall behind other ODI greats.
 
Pak Warrior said:
Tempus123 should get the Ironman award from PP he's been fighting for his side of the debate for like 5 days..I can send you some redbulls and protein bars if u need...lemme know
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Thanks mate. My job is to spread the message of truth.
 
tempus123 said:
I am not saying Imran doesn't have claim to it, but will be very difficult to go past Viv for example. Even if he went ahead of Viv by the grace of IFB (Imran Fanboys Brigade), there will be a wall in Sobers there standing.

If you can let me know a single world XI outside IFBs which contain Imran ahead of Sobers, I can accept you are right.
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IMO

Bradman, Richards - as batsmen
Sobers, Miller, Imran - as all rounders
Marshall, Warne - as bowlers
Gilchrist - as keeper batsman

all compete for the GOAT title. The ultimate opinion is subjective, though I think Bradman will win most polls, whether at the layman's level or at the experts level.
 
tempus123 said:
I am not contradicting myself. I don't accept anyone as GOAT, but you asked me.. so I said "assuming" if there is one, it would either be Sobers or Bradman, closely followed by Viv or Warne.

My personal opinion doesn't matter here. I am talking about collective opinions of experts around the world.

I also don't think experts put Imran along with Sobers in their XIs (except one or two like Benaud) because it will be having two all rounfers.. in any case if they had one place, they would pick Sobers.

Not sure what's your point. Whichever way you look at it, unless one is member of IFB, Imran can't be called the greatest ever Test cricketer, let alone greatest ever cricketer. If you include ODIs, Imran would fall behind other ODI greats.
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Not in ODIs and Tests together. In that, he will have an extremely strong claim. He wouldn't fall behind ODI greats.

My point is you are completely dismissing Imran's claim. Apart from the wickets column, I don't know what Warne has done to not only be suggested as the GOAT but to be declared so confidently over imran by you.
 
tempus123 said:
The post was about the weaker discipline.. I may have used Imran's name instead of Sobers so that got percolated. My message was same though.
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Bradman is most often unanimously chosen as the GOAT. Does that in any way weaken Sober's, Viv's, or Warne's claim?
 
Pak Warrior said:
Tempus123 should get the Ironman award from PP he's been fighting for his side of the debate for like 5 days..I can send you some redbulls and protein bars if u need...lemme know
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Very easy to keep typing when you keep changing the goal-posts every other post. A couple pages back it was impossible for Sobers to be the GOAT since he achieved nothing in ODIs, same goes for Bradman. Then it was Murali who was the greatest cricketer for Asia because he had no support, which was proven false. Then the conversation moved to Imran's "cheating", which ended promptly when Sachin's "cheating" was exposed.

Now, we're back on square one with people turning into sheep, who are unable to think for themselves, and treating the opinions of players, who grew up watching Sobers play, as fact.
 
tempus123 said:
The post was about the weaker discipline.. I may have used Imran's name instead of Sobers so that got percolated. My message was same though.
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You were clearly unaware of Imran's ridiculously amazing stats during his peak and are now trying - and failing, to cover up. Flintoff a real all-rounder and Imran not, lol.
 
6 Pages and still going strong. Keep on fighting,soldier. [MENTION=135126]tempus123[/MENTION]
 
Bilal7 said:
Very easy to keep typing when you keep changing the goal-posts every other post. A couple pages back it was impossible for Sobers to be the GOAT since he achieved nothing in ODIs, same goes for Bradman. Then it was Murali who was the greatest cricketer for Asia because he had no support, which was proven false. Then the conversation moved to Imran's "cheating", which ended promptly when Sachin's "cheating" was exposed.

Now, we're back on square one with people turning into sheep, who are unable to think for themselves, and treating the opinions of players, who grew up watching Sobers play, as fact.
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Pathetic attempt if you are talking about me. Cheating angle did not end at all.. so stop lying like you always do. IFBs simply refused to accept that there was no charge against Sachin by ICC. As soon as I posted this fact, people claimed ICC was biased.. lol.. what a way to argue.

Goal posts have not changed at all. Apart from the fanboys everyone has accepted that Imran is only one of the great players.. not the greatest by any means. Fanboys refuse to accept it. It's their fault.
 
Imran is not the greatest cricketer ever, but he is the greatest from the sub-continent. Sachin, Wasim and Murali were legendary players and each of them reached the peak of their respective fields but they were specialists, Imran was legendary in two departments and good in a third.
 
Bilal7 said:
You were clearly unaware of Imran's ridiculously amazing stats during his peak and are now trying - and failing, to cover up. Flintoff a real all-rounder and Imran not, lol.
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I hate posters who try to take advantage of typos (I do it sometimes too) or are just illiterate to read the entire post in it's context.. jump to comment without understanding the post. You are nothing but a hopeless fanboy. Leader of IFB
 
I feel the reason Sobers is considered the greatest by most historians / cricketers is because he stood out more in a relatively mediocre era. He was the best batsman of the 60's and among the top 5 wicket-takers of the decade too!

While Imran played in a very competitive era. Even though he was at his peak through the 80's, he was the third best bowler of the decade and might not even feature in the top 15 batsmen of the 80's!

In terms of being ahead of the pack, it would be Sobers or Bradman. In terms of performing against quality opponents, Imran is certainly up there among the best.
 
tempus123 said:
I hate posters who try to take advantage of typos (I do it sometimes too) or are just illiterate to read the entire post in it's context.. jump to comment without understanding the post. You are nothing but a hopeless fanboy. Leader of IFB
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It wasn't a typo. It was a whole post about how Imran's batting was not feared by the opposition. You clearly knew what you were typing, what you didn't know were Imran's stats.
 
Bilal7 said:
His captaincy. His batting was good and his fielding was on par with those three.
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Better idea would have been to write about 4 departments then and not 3 when talking about all rounders ;)
 
tempus123 said:
Yes, but my standard for all rounders are a bit higher. You need to be able to create fear in the opposition based on either of your skills.
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tempus123 said:
Sorry, that's not what I mean as an allrounder, as someone who can play in the team as a batter alone, but to be able to worry the opposition as a serious threat based on either.

Flintoff may not be as good a batter, because he was injury prone and also didn't have a long career.. but impact wise, he could play both roles in terms of match winning, and such players deserve the tag. He doesn't have to be an "overall" better batsman or bowler than either.. but having ability to take 3-4 wickets and scoring 50 in the same match will create fear in opposition.
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So your device was auto-correcting "Sobers" to "Imran", and you didn't even notice? Despite two posters before me correcting you?
 
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tempus123 said:
Pathetic attempt if you are talking about me. Cheating angle did not end at all.. so stop lying like you always do. IFBs simply refused to accept that there was no charge against Sachin by ICC. As soon as I posted this fact, people claimed ICC was biased.. lol.. what a way to argue.

Goal posts have not changed at all. Apart from the fanboys everyone has accepted that Imran is only one of the great players.. not the greatest by any means. Fanboys refuse to accept it. It's their fault.
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Bilal7 said:
It wasn't a typo. It was a whole post about how Imran's batting was not feared by the opposition. You clearly knew what you were typing, what you didn't know were Imran's stats.
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Damn tempus, looks like he's got you on this one. It's getting hot in them trenches aye?
 
Imran Khan In Tests and Odis from 1980 to 1989

Tests : Bowling avg 17----Batting avg 40 [ 48 Test Matches ]
Odis : Bowling avg 22-----Batting avg 34 [ 120 Odis]

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from 87 to 92 Batting avg 59

Last 15 Tests Batting avg 72

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As Captain Batting avg 52 -- Bowling avg 19

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Bowling avg as a bowler in worldcups - 19.34

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Worst avg as a bowler against any team 28 [ newzeland]

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Bowling avg against WI -- 21

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Any cricketer who can match these stats? even if u choose selective part of his/their career...
 
Scrolln said:
I feel the reason Sobers is considered the greatest by most historians / cricketers is because he stood out more in a relatively mediocre era. He was the best batsman of the 60's and among the top 5 wicket-takers of the decade too!

While Imran played in a very competitive era. Even though he was at his peak through the 80's, he was the third best bowler of the decade and might not even feature in the top 15 batsmen of the 80's!

In terms of being ahead of the pack, it would be Sobers or Bradman. In terms of performing against quality opponents, Imran is certainly up there among the best.
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[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] in a recent post opined that Sobers was not only below Imran, but also below other all rounder peers of Imran - Botham, Kapil and Hadlee. MMHS equated Sobers with the likes of Ravi Shastri who was a decent all rounder of the 80s. His view gave me a chuckle, but then he may not be far off considering the level of competition in the 50s and 60s.
 
IndianWillow said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] in a recent post opined that Sobers was not only below Imran, but also below other all rounder peers of Imran - Botham, Kapil and Hadlee. MMHS equated Sobers with the likes of Ravi Shastri who was a decent all rounder of the 80s. His view gave me a chuckle, but then he may not be far off considering the level of competition in the 50s and 60s.
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A little correction - Sobers indeed was a great all-rounder, but he looked like a colossus because the next man was Trevor Bailey........

I think, I quoted Shastri because he was a 2nd string all-rounder compared to those 4 & barring IND-PAK, Sober's stats are not that great even compared to Shastri. But, Sobers was way, way better than Ravi as a batsman.

I actually rank Sobers in the line of Hadlee - he is a batting equivalent of what Sobers was as a bowler & vice verse.

Sir Gary has that image not only because of the competition, but also for the style he played in an era of stone wallers. Cricket is a game where you compete with fellow players, not with stats.
 
Bilal7 said:
So your device was auto-correcting "Sobers" to "Imran", and you didn't even notice? Despite two posters before me correcting you?
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I don't want to get into an argument with someone who didn't understand my post in the first place itself.

Typo is not only about device correcting. I had Sobers in mind, but typed Imran along with Kallis. My later posts were not talking as much about either of them but Flintoff. Let's not discuss that further, as it will not lead to a useful discussion apart from your proving that I was wrong in mentioning Imran.. which I have already expressed regrets for.

I never called Flintoff a great allrounder, simply because he didn't sustain it. But it's true that Ashes 2005 was as complete performance as an all rounder as one would get anywhere.

If you can't read a post in the context it was made, and use that post in isolation to prove me wrong on something which I never said in the first place, it is better we don't engage in discussion.
 
Bilal7 said:
It wasn't a typo. It was a whole post about how Imran's batting was not feared by the opposition. You clearly knew what you were typing, what you didn't know were Imran's stats.
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Don't assume that the person hasn't checked cricinfo before posting something. I have read enough on Imran's 10-year selective period stat here on PP itself, it has been mentioned thousand of times and I have been a member for 2 years.

Let's leave it at that.
 
Bilal7 said:
Imran is not the greatest cricketer ever, but he is the greatest from the sub-continent. Sachin, Wasim and Murali were legendary players and each of them reached the peak of their respective fields but they were specialists, Imran was legendary in two departments and good in a third.
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1. I have been rejecting the idea of Imran being the GOAT in the world, which is the thread all about.

2. Asia's best cricketer point is not the focal point of this thread. There was a thread I created on it a year ago, and the general consensus was that all 3 were having a rightful claim. Imran is not considered greatest in Asia without doubt either, but I don't want to discuss it more here.

3. I haven't changed the goalposts at all. Right from my first post here, I have been saying the same thing. Imran is one of the best cricketers of all time, but certainly not the greatest.

4. Cheating angle I am not sure why I was wrong. It was clear there was no case. We dropped that issue because the thread was being derailed, not because I backtracked the charge.

Now there is nothing more for me to say here. Good day.
 
TheNightWatchman said:
Bradman is most often unanimously chosen as the GOAT. Does that in any way weaken Sober's, Viv's, or Warne's claim?
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No.. many people claim Sobers as the GOAT, but not seen too many experts rating anyone beyond these two.

If you ask me, finding one single GOAT is a futile exercise, because you can't compare allrounders with specialists. Also you can't compare players who haven't played ODIs with those who have played both, as the requirements are completely different. Stats comparison across eras is subjective too.

Giving one liners would not serve the purpose.

PS: I myself don't consider Sobers to be that great, but it's my personal opinion. It's better to clarify else people will claim I was saying two different things.
 
tempus123 said:
Pathetic attempt if you are talking about me. Cheating angle did not end at all.. so stop lying like you always do. IFBs simply refused to accept that there was no charge against Sachin by ICC. As soon as I posted this fact, people claimed ICC was biased.. lol.. what a way to argue.

Goal posts have not changed at all. Apart from the fanboys everyone has accepted that Imran is only one of the great players.. not the greatest by any means. Fanboys refuse to accept it. It's their fault.
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Tempus it was a good fight, but your not gonna win this one...especially at pp...Imran is the greatest ever. Let's move on
 
Pak Warrior said:
Tempus it was a good fight, but your not gonna win this one...especially at pp...Imran is the greatest ever. Let's move on
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Apart from pure IFBs almost all are in agreement, the thread title was wrong.

There is in fact no conflict at all. Everyone is saying he is not the greatest ever, but the thread is going on.
 
tempus123 said:
1. I have been rejecting the idea of Imran being the GOAT in the world, which is the thread all about.

2. Asia's best cricketer point is not the focal point of this thread. There was a thread I created on it a year ago, and the general consensus was that all 3 were having a rightful claim. Imran is not considered greatest in Asia without doubt either, but I don't want to discuss it more here.

3. I haven't changed the goalposts at all. Right from my first post here, I have been saying the same thing. Imran is one of the best cricketers of all time, but certainly not the greatest.

4. Cheating angle I am not sure why I was wrong. It was clear there was no case. We dropped that issue because the thread was being derailed, not because I backtracked the charge.

Now there is nothing more for me to say here. Good day.
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No, as far as Asia goes, Imran is ahead of Sachin, Wasim and Murali. You really can't expect a specialist to be better than a 3 in 1 cricketer (Batting, bowling and captaincy).
 
Bilal7 said:
No, as far as Asia goes, Imran is ahead of Sachin, Wasim and Murali. You really can't expect a specialist to be better than a 3 in 1 cricketer (Batting, bowling and captaincy).
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That's a separate and debatable topic in itself but you are entitled to your opinion. It would be better if Asia's best cricketer topic is discussed in a separate thread (I created one sometime ago).

As far as this particular thread is concerned (ignoring the side stories of Murali chucking, Flintoff, Imran cheating etc.) the thread's title is proven wrong.
 
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This thread's title was proven wrong back on page one. Apart from a couple of people, no one is really calling Imran the GOAT.
 
Imran is such a legend. Came out of retirement to win Pakistan a WC. Gave Pakistan players like Wasim, Waqar, and Inzy. He basically shaped Pakistan cricket. Unfortunately no other players have had such an impact ever since. Players like Wasim and Inzy just didn't have Imran's qualities to guide Pakistani youngsters the way Imran guided them and made them ATGs. A true cricket legend.
 
Strong contender for 3rd greatest cricketer ever..
 
IndianWillow said:
IMO

Bradman, Richards - as batsmen
Sobers, Miller, Imran - as all rounders
Marshall, Warne - as bowlers
Gilchrist - as keeper batsman

all compete for the GOAT title. The ultimate opinion is subjective, though I think Bradman will win most polls, whether at the layman's level or at the experts level.
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Bradman, Imran, Richards, Marshall and Sobers are the main contenders. Gilly, Miller and Warne aren't really talked about in the same breath.
 
Bilal7 said:
Bradman, Imran, Richards, Marshall and Sobers are the main contenders. Gilly, Miller and Warne aren't really talked about in the same breath.
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:))) Who were the 4 WISDEN Cricketers of the century? Did Imran Khan find a place?
 
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