[VIDEOS] Is Jimmy Anderson an all-time great?

[James]

I don't like to disrespect James Anderson at all because I do consider him the second best bowler of this generation and rated him at the level of Pollock or Walsh which is indeed a testimony of how great his achievements are. However, suggestions like if Steyn doesn't swap his 439 wickets at 22 or his match winning performances away from home in most of the conditions with Anderson, "he is not in right head" comments will surely induce responses of similar taste back.

Ok and I disagree with that comment on Steyn from the other poster as well.

There often seem to be quite a few strongly worded comments against professional athletes in threads such as these.

It’s just cricket — we all have our passions, our favourites, and our personal opinions — but it is ultimately only a game. It’s not life and death.

 

[Buffet]

A cherrypicked period when Anderson did extremely well in his career,

Since 2009, Away avg ...

Bumrah - 22
Steyn - 24
Morkel - 26
Starc - 26
..
..
..
Anderson - 28

------------------------------

Now without cherry-picking the period, Anderson away average goes in 31-32. He did have his moments in 2-3 away series in his long career and improved in the latter half, but not really up there with the best.

Just ask yourself a simple question,

If you are picking the best bowlers to tour in different conditions, will Anderson come near the top 2-3 candidates in the last 10-12 years? The answer will be a big no. And that's in Anderson's best years as a bowler.

Now if you are making a team to play in Eng, then he will get there every day, but that's just home condition and not a sign of greatness. Greatness is defined by how you do outside of your comfort zone. A brilliant career can be had by performing great at home and Anderson did. He is actually pretty decent away also but falls short of ATG.

Walsh, Dev, Anderson etc get my respect for longevity, but that hardly makes you the best bowler of your era.

Anyone pointing Steyn averaging 30 in Eng has not watched games. Eng put absolute road whenever Steyn played in Eng. Anderson's avg is 40+ when in Eng when Steyn played in the same match.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Anderson can be inferior to the likes of Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Steyn, Imran et al, and still qualify as an ATG. He does so in my book, and my opinion is as valid as someone who hasn't played the game and doesn't rate Anderson. These churlish and circular debates are asinine.

 

[Mamoon]

Seriously, lol??

With an away average of 31, he will do well to fit the shoe-lace of Dale Steyn who has the greatest strike rate for any fast bowler that has played the game. Even Kagiso Rabada is already a better bowler than James Anderson with 200 wickets at average of 22 at an age of 25.

I think he is nothing more than just a poor man's Dale Steyn and it won't change even if he takes 1000 test wickets. It is like rating Kapil Dev higher than Malcolm Marshall because Dev got more wickets than Marshall and both played in same era.

Why is average/strike rate the only criteria for being declared an “ATG”, which is an arbitrary term anyway?

Kapil took more wickets than Marshall but we are not talking about Anderson taking more wickets than Steyn; we are talking about Anderson taking more wickets than any fast bowler in history.

He will eventually become the only fast bowler with 700 Test wickets and the direction that cricket is heading into, this is likely to become an unbreakable record like Bradman’s average of 99.

As I said, Anderson’s legacy is set in stone and no one could take it away from him. He won’t swap 700 Test wickets for better average and strike rate.

It is beyond comical to argue that a fast bowler with 632 Test wickets and counting at an average of 26 and who has helped his team win Test series in Australia and England is not an ATG.

 

[Mamoon]

A cherrypicked period when Anderson did extremely well in his career,

Since 2009, Away avg ...

Bumrah - 22
Steyn - 24
Morkel - 26
Starc - 26
..
..
..
Anderson - 28

------------------------------

Now without cherry-picking the period, Anderson away average goes in 31-32. He did have his moments in 2-3 away series in his long career and improved in the latter half, but not really up there with the best.

Just ask yourself a simple question,

If you are picking the best bowlers to tour in different conditions, will Anderson come near the top 2-3 candidates in the last 10-12 years? The answer will be a big no. And that's in Anderson's best years as a bowler.

Now if you are making a team to play in Eng, then he will get there every day, but that's just home condition and not a sign of greatness. Greatness is defined by how you do outside of your comfort zone. A brilliant career can be had by performing great at home and Anderson did. He is actually pretty decent away also but falls short of ATG.

Walsh, Dev, Anderson etc get my respect for longevity, but that hardly makes you the best bowler of your era.

Anyone pointing Steyn averaging 30 in Eng has not watched games. Eng put absolute road whenever Steyn played in Eng. Anderson's avg is 40+ when in Eng when Steyn played in the same match.

Average and SR are not the only criteria to determine greatness. Arguing that Steyn is better is completely understandable, because taking 439 wickets at an average of 23 and SR of 42 is incredible.

However, arguing that Anderson is not an ATG is completely wrong.

A fast bowler with 632 Test wickets at an average of 26 and who has helped his team win Test series in Australia and India is an ATG by a very comfortable margin.

Anderson will probably be the first only fast bowler to take 700 wickets and this will most likely to be a timeless record like Bradman’s 99 average.

It is like arguing that a batsman with 20,000 Test runs, and who has helped his team win Test series in Australia and India is not an ATG because he doesn’t average 50+ away from home.

Average/SR is not the only criteria for achieving greatness. Taking most Test wickets in history and achieving a number that most probably will never be breached by another fast bowler in history is an even more significant criteria.

Think about this - would a bowler rather take 439 wickets at 23 or 700 wickets at 26? I think the answer is obvious. Every single bowler would choose the most wickets in history at a very respectable average of 26.

 

[happydavy]

Depending upon what you call an ATG, if it's a finite list of 10-15 bowlers or a more broader term, Anderson might or might not fit in that list. However the list of his accomplishments is very very long, and longevity factor is something that can not be ignored. For a fast bowler to take 600 wickets and playing even at 40 is something he should be massively proud of.

 

[sam_ahm]

Anderson is not an all time great. He is a brilliant bowler but not an ATG. 400+ of his wickets have come at home, and Jimmy hasn't really produced efforts like those of winning Ashes in Australia despite getting many shots at it, he doesn't have many heroics in other countries either apart from England.

Even 2012 series win in India was largely due to Monty, Swann, KP and Cook.

He also has no LOI achievements to show.

Just by numbers like 600 you cannot become an "All time great". This comes with very big series winning achievements.

 

[Manunited18]

Anderson falls in to the worldclass/Great category. ATG status should be reserved for the very few.

 

[Ab Fan]

Away+ neutral stats of some of great fast bowlers :-

Steyn 178 @24.9
Waqar 211 @26
Walsh 290 @25
Pollock 186 @25

<B>Drop in quality:</B>

Botham 157 @29
Anderson 233 @30.74
Kapil 215 @32

 

[MenInG]

London: Former England skipper Alastair Cook wants the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) to make Jimmy Anderson the bowling coach once he retires from international cricket given the “goldmine” of expertise he has, which could be passed on to the next generation.Also Read - Invest Some Time And Faith in Opener Zak Crawley: Michael Atherton

With 168 completed Test matches and 639 wickets — the highest ever by a pace bowler — the 39-year-old Anderson is still England’s most potent bowler in the longest format of the game as he continues to shoulder the bulk of the burden in the ongoing Ashes series. Also Read - Josh Hazlewood Ruled Out of Fifth Ashes Test, Confirms Australian Selector

“It is obvious when he has played over 160 Tests and taken 600 wickets, but his knowledge of bowling: he is undoubtedly the most skilful seam bowler I ever played with or against,” Cook told mirror.co.uk on Saturday. Also Read - 'Bowled' That Was Not to Be: Sachin Tendulkar-Shane Warne Have Fun Discussion on Ben Stokes' Lucky Survival

Having picked up 39 wickets at an average of 21.74 in 2021, Anderson is at the fag-end of his career, and Cook said that had he been involved with the ECB, he would be thinking about bringing Anderson into the England coaching setup.

“Someone like Jimmy Anderson, if I was involved with the ECB (I’d be) getting him. That knowledge of how to get that ball to talk, to move on flat wickets, the swinging ball, you can’t buy any of that. That is gold sat there. Would Jimmy Anderson be a bowling coach? I couldn’t see him going away on tour but him working with the up and coming players is an obvious thing for me because of his knowledge,” said Cook.

“Having gone from a 90mph swing bowler to a totally different bowler at the end of it… alongside injuries, alongside the change of actions… that is a goldmine for the future of English cricket,” added Cook.

Cook also said that he was not averse to taking up a coaching job himself, but it would not be a full-time role.

“I love the idea of it, of trying to help people out. If I can help an Essex young batsman out, give them a bit of time. The thing about coaching, to be good you’ve got to have so much time. With other stuff in my life, the farm and a young family, I can’t see myself being a full-time coach. To be any good at anything you’ve got to be fully immersed in it and I can’t see myself at this time in my life doing it. In 10-15 years’ time who knows? But the thought of helping the next generation is very appealing.”

https://www.india.com/sports/alasta...derson-bowling-coach-once-he-retires-5176362/

 

[wrongun]

London: Former England skipper Alastair Cook wants the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) to make Jimmy Anderson the bowling coach once he retires from international cricket given the “goldmine” of expertise he has, which could be passed on to the next generation.Also Read - Invest Some Time And Faith in Opener Zak Crawley: Michael Atherton

With 168 completed Test matches and 639 wickets — the highest ever by a pace bowler — the 39-year-old Anderson is still England’s most potent bowler in the longest format of the game as he continues to shoulder the bulk of the burden in the ongoing Ashes series. Also Read - Josh Hazlewood Ruled Out of Fifth Ashes Test, Confirms Australian Selector

“It is obvious when he has played over 160 Tests and taken 600 wickets, but his knowledge of bowling: he is undoubtedly the most skilful seam bowler I ever played with or against,” Cook told mirror.co.uk on Saturday. Also Read - 'Bowled' That Was Not to Be: Sachin Tendulkar-Shane Warne Have Fun Discussion on Ben Stokes' Lucky Survival

Having picked up 39 wickets at an average of 21.74 in 2021, Anderson is at the fag-end of his career, and Cook said that had he been involved with the ECB, he would be thinking about bringing Anderson into the England coaching setup.

“Someone like Jimmy Anderson, if I was involved with the ECB (I’d be) getting him. That knowledge of how to get that ball to talk, to move on flat wickets, the swinging ball, you can’t buy any of that. That is gold sat there. Would Jimmy Anderson be a bowling coach? I couldn’t see him going away on tour but him working with the up and coming players is an obvious thing for me because of his knowledge,” said Cook.

“Having gone from a 90mph swing bowler to a totally different bowler at the end of it… alongside injuries, alongside the change of actions… that is a goldmine for the future of English cricket,” added Cook.

Cook also said that he was not averse to taking up a coaching job himself, but it would not be a full-time role.

“I love the idea of it, of trying to help people out. If I can help an Essex young batsman out, give them a bit of time. The thing about coaching, to be good you’ve got to have so much time. With other stuff in my life, the farm and a young family, I can’t see myself being a full-time coach. To be any good at anything you’ve got to be fully immersed in it and I can’t see myself at this time in my life doing it. In 10-15 years’ time who knows? But the thought of helping the next generation is very appealing.”

https://www.india.com/sports/alasta...derson-bowling-coach-once-he-retires-5176362/

Never a great idea to go directly into coaching the guys he just played with.

Better off taking 3-5 years away, get his certificates, maybe coach club & county & then come back.

Doesn't work to coach your friends & team mates & have that hangover of last era in the dressing room for the new captain.

 

[wrongun]

Why is average/strike rate the only criteria for being declared an “ATG”, which is an arbitrary term anyway?

Kapil took more wickets than Marshall but we are not talking about Anderson taking more wickets than Steyn; we are talking about Anderson taking more wickets than any fast bowler in history.

He will eventually become the only fast bowler with 700 Test wickets and the direction that cricket is heading into, this is likely to become an unbreakable record like Bradman’s average of 99.

As I said, Anderson’s legacy is set in stone and no one could take it away from him. He won’t swap 700 Test wickets for better average and strike rate.

It is beyond comical to argue that a fast bowler with 632 Test wickets and counting at an average of 26 and who has helped his team win Test series in Australia and England is not an ATG.

Fair points.

Do you also consider Kapil & Botham as ATG bowlers?

 

[James]

For some reason I’m still not quite there with the ATG tag.

Great bowler yes, England ATG yes, all-time England XI yes.

But ATG in the context of cricket history.... maybe he is just a hairline off that.

This is still how I feel I think… as good as he is.

It’s a marginal thing.

 

[Robert]

the 39-year-old Anderson is still England’s most potent bowler in the longest format of the game as he continues to shoulder the bulk of the burden in the ongoing Ashes series.

Not so. His s/r is high due to his inability to come back in the second innings, and Robbo has one more wicket.

England continue to waste Wood by not giving him the new ball.