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You answered your own question. Archer won his country a World Cup. What has Naseem done?
What has Archer to be disrespected like this?
Why would you compare a World Cup winner to an abject failure?
So performing in ODIs makes him the best Test bowler in the world despite his rubbish performance?
So if Naseem performs in the T20 World Cup this year it automatically changes how his Test numbers are perceived?
Not sure, what you are going on about. Archer not only won his country a world cup, he performed admirably in his debut test series in a high pressure Ashes series against some of the best test batsmen in the world.
Naseem on the other hand averages 45 with the ball at an economy rate of 3.8. he averages like 70 against most of the top teams. No comparison between him and Archer.
So performing in ODIs makes him the best Test bowler in the world despite his rubbish performance?
So if Naseem performs in the T20 World Cup this year it automatically changes how his Test numbers are perceived?
He has been unlucky i mean people do have high expectations
There reality is that there is a lot of emotional investment in Naseem. PCB created hype for him by faking his age and the fans bought into the hype and saw a future star in him, so now all we get are excuses because they cannot come to terms with the bitter reality that he is not and will not be the bowler they hoped for.
Even the commentators hyped him in Australia in 2019 because PCB lied about his age and not because the quality of his bowling.
The idea that a 16 year old was bowling at a very decent pace and playing Test cricket excited many, but the reality is that he was 16 in 2016 which means that he is pretty much the same age as Shaheen, who is several notches above him in terms of talent, skill, mentality and is also blessed with physical characteristics.
There was hype initially - 16 years of course was a stretch, I don’t think anyone for one minute believed he was actually 16. But it was clear he was still in his late teens. 16 or 19 or even 21, to bowl 147k at either age is pretty special. Hence the hype.
A lot of the hype was also because (contrary to the opinions of non pakistani commentators) of the dearth of fast bowlers coming out of pakistan.
There’s no harm fans getting excited for a young bowler who bowls 90mph.
It is abundantly clear he has a lot to learn, I think most people accept that. Beyond that a lot of people are wishing a young bowler well. Why not?
I don’t understand the vitriol
Archer isn’t the best Test bowler in the world. In my opinion, Cummins is the best Test bowler in the world.
However, if you take all three formats into consideration, I would argue that a fit Archer is the best fast bowler around.
If someone disputes that opinion based on the fact that Archer hasn’t had a great series after the Ashes, it would be perfectly reasonable.
However, what I don’t understand is using Naseem to put down Archer. This comparison always makes me laugh because of how random it is.
Naseem is a complete nobody. He is a rubbish bowler with zero achievements to his name against the big sides. He cannot even get into the white ball team.
Even if Archer retires today and Naseem plays for another 10 years, I doubt if he would ever merit a comparison because Archer’s 2019 alone will probably remain bigger than anything that Naseem will ever do in his career looking at how rubbish his bowling is.
A World Cup winning bowler like Archer does not deserve this disrespect. Compare Naseem to bowlers who are in his category. For example, bowlers from Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Nepal, UAE etc.
Well, the stares he is giving to the batsman after almost every ball and running towards them doesn't give the impression he being nobody. Unless of course someone opens the scoresheet and see his test match stats.
Why would you judge him based on this highway . No bowler has looked good here , he just needs consistency , has enough wicket taking potential.
Every one will be silenced when he pick ups 3 or 4 wickets by day end. Just wait and watch.
His tendency to bowl one bad ball every over is letting him down. It’s a flat wicket, just look to bowl consistently at the right lengths.There is no ‘stock’ length for Naseem, it’s either too full or too short.
Why would you judge him based on this highway . No bowler has looked good here , he just needs consistency , has enough wicket taking potential.
Good bowling from him today. The usual jokers will go on and on about him being rubbish, but they did the same for Shaheen when he debuted for Lahore, then did the same again when he started playing for Pakistan. After a few years to find his feet, now Shaheen is the number 1 bowler in the world.
These young players need time to grow, in pakistan cricket we don't give them any time, and throw them in the deep end. On this dead pitch he has been way more threatening than any of the Australian pace bowlers.
Shaheen number 1 bowler in the world?
Maybe he has more haters then expected at this stage because his hardcore fans have put him on such a high pedestal, apparently he is already better then Archer and more proven at the highest level across all forms.
I don’t think Pakistan have done Naseem any favours by blindly throwing him at the deep end, it will work for a few but wouldn’t he be better served getting more FC experience. Hopefully he comes back stronger in this Test but either way Pakistan should take their time with him, am not sure why Hasan Ali wasn’t picked, he has been more suited to this format as of late
I don’t know why anyone would compare him to Archer or use Archer as a measuring stick. Archer himself has much to prove anyway - most of all whether he even has a test future.
Naseem has shown glimpses of potential in this match, I think he’s bowled ok in these conditions.
Tough to compare him to 3 seasoned veterans like Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.
Should Naseem be down in the pecking order? Yes, and he is. Hassan Ali and Rauf were unavailable for some reason so it’s fair he got the nod for this test
I don’t know why anyone would compare him to Archer or use Archer as a measuring stick. Archer himself has much to prove anyway - most of all whether he even has a test future.
Naseem has shown glimpses of potential in this match, I think he’s bowled ok in these conditions.
Tough to compare him to 3 seasoned veterans like Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.
Should Naseem be down in the pecking order? Yes, and he is. Hassan Ali and Rauf were unavailable for some reason so it’s fair he got the nod for this test
I don’t know why anyone would compare him to Archer or use Archer as a measuring stick. Archer himself has much to prove anyway - most of all whether he even has a test future.
Naseem has shown glimpses of potential in this match, I think he’s bowled ok in these conditions.
Tough to compare him to 3 seasoned veterans like Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.
Should Naseem be down in the pecking order? Yes, and he is. Hassan Ali and Rauf were unavailable for some reason so it’s fair he got the nod for this test
I don’t know why anyone would compare him to Archer or use Archer as a measuring stick. Archer himself has much to prove anyway - most of all whether he even has a test future.
Naseem has shown glimpses of potential in this match, I think he’s bowled ok in these conditions.
Tough to compare him to 3 seasoned veterans like Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.
Should Naseem be down in the pecking order? Yes, and he is. Hassan Ali and Rauf were unavailable for some reason so it’s fair he got the nod for this test
Archer has fitness issues it’s true but he has been more successful then Naseem across all forms, I don’t know why Naseem is rated more then him? if it’s based on hypothetical scenarios and potential that’s something else or those who believe he genuinely has done significantly better are delusional.
When he is being picked to play Tests at the highest level the scrutiny is understandable but also management should be questioned because they feel the guy can deliver right now, maybe they know something we don’t and he will show his capabilities in this series
Archer has fitness issues it’s true but he has been more successful then Naseem across all forms, I don’t know why Naseem is rated more then him? if it’s based on hypothetical scenarios and potential that’s something else or those who believe he genuinely has done significantly better are delusional.
When he is being picked to play Tests at the highest level the scrutiny is understandable but also management should be questioned because they feel the guy can deliver right now, maybe they know something we don’t and he will show his capabilities in this series
Who rates Naseem higher than Archer?
The only issue is why Naseem is treated so harshly while someone like Archer is still considered the best (even mentioned by commentators) despite bowling just as badly as Naseem for almost 3 years (when he hasn’t been injured ofcourse).
Who rates him higher than Archer? It hasn’t even crossed my mind! It’s a completely irrelevant comparison. Archer is mainly known for his exploits with the white ball. Naseem hasn’t played a white ball international game!
In tests, Archer’s only claim to fame is flooring Steve Smith and bowling well in a couple of other matches and some other pedestrian performances where his own countrymen were criticising (unfairly probably) about his attitude
Its an abject failure of the thick tank. How is it fair that Shah who is only a kid is getting the nod ahead of others who may have been working hard in domestics and FC cricket?
Its not as if his stats have been absolutely amazing, that there’s a desperation to play him.
I understand this was an experiment but its an experiment that should have been canned a long time ago.
The thick tank (I like it!) are pretty clueless at the best of times but in this instance I’m not quite sure who you want to play instead? Especially as Hassan and Rauf were unavailable.
Tabish Khan? That ship has sailed - unfairly and harshly treated in the past but there’s no need to go back there now
Abbas? You might as well pick another spinner. Maybe 3-4 years ago, but he is absolutely useless now.
Hasnain - banned
In this instance probably better getting Naseem some more exposure than taking on some older bowlers. I would have probably preferred Dahani, but the arguments against Naseem also apply to him too.
If Hassan is fit next game and Naseem is selected instead then that’s ridiculous but for this match don’t see much wrong with the selection. Limited options
Was there really no one else, I wouldn’t have thought Abbas is a bad short term option in this scenario.
Am not sure what figures Naseem had for today as some said he bowled well?
But if he is getting absolutely shafted by a world class line up on a motorway, it can be damaging for a young players confidence. If he were getting some exposure playing SL, BD or WI there would be a better case for picking him perhaps
Was there really no one else, I wouldn’t have thought Abbas is a bad short term option in this scenario.
Am not sure what figures Naseem had for today as some said he bowled well?
But if he is getting absolutely shafted by a world class line up on a motorway, it can be damaging for a young players confidence. If he were getting some exposure playing SL, BD or WI there would be a better case for picking him perhaps
Do you guys believe Naseem is at the same level as Archer in terms of success across all forms domestic and international ?
The thick tank (I like it!) are pretty clueless at the best of times but in this instance I’m not quite sure who you want to play instead? Especially as Hassan and Rauf were unavailable.
Tabish Khan? That ship has sailed - unfairly and harshly treated in the past but there’s no need to go back there now
Abbas? You might as well pick another spinner. Maybe 3-4 years ago, but he is absolutely useless now.
Hasnain - banned
In this instance probably better getting Naseem some more exposure than taking on some older bowlers. I would have probably preferred Dahani, but the arguments against Naseem also apply to him too.
If Hassan is fit next game and Naseem is selected instead then that’s ridiculous but for this match don’t see much wrong with the selection. Limited options
What is the obsession with Archer anyway? Pointless and useless comparison. Why stop at Archer? Why not compare him to Shaun Tait too?
Archer is not a “current” bowler until he comes back.
Abbas is extremely poor now. He’s bowling the pace Graham gooch and Sourav Ganguly used to bowl.
Cue the “pace is not everything” brigade. Everyone knows this, but there’s got to be a minimum. Bowling 70mph is an embarrassment
If options are that thin as a 1 test option what are the % chances that Abbas would go for around 4 an over compared to a rookie?
Do you guys believe Naseem is at the same level as Archer in terms of success across all forms domestic and international ?
Every pacer has struggled to take wickets in this match. It is a dead wicket after all.
However, he is the only pacer to go over 4 an over. All other pacers have kept their economy rates below 3.
In his last series in New Zealand, he bowled the most expensive spell in history (min. 25 overs).
He has played in Australia, England, New Zealand and Pakistan - he has struggled to take wickets against all big teams home and away.
Regardless of the conditions, his mediocrity remains constant and he is always expensive. Pretty much guaranteed to conceded a boundary ever over.
Horrendous bowler. The hype makes me laugh.
Top performers from recent QEA should have been preferred. Experience was needed. You can’t have naseem AND Shaheen.
In a run fest season QEA trophy, Sohail Khan, Sameen Gul and Mir Hamza had good seasons with good 30 or below average. Imran khan was also a good option.
Was surprised to see Naseem ahead of these guys
The only person holding Archer to any sort of a standard is [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
The rest of the world sees him for exactly who he is. An overrated and injury-prone bowler who has done nothing to establish himself in test cricket. And someone who will likely have a short and unfulfilled career in which he fails to meet the lofty expectations people had from him.
Comparing him to Naseem is laughable because Naseem actually has a future.
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This post exemplifies why Pakistani fans are the most delusional in the world.
Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot - a Pakistani bowler played a starring role in helping his country win a World Cup in his debut year in international cricket compared to a bowler who has been treated like a joke every time he has played against a big team in Test cricket and can’t even break into the LOI squad.
Pakistani fans would roll on the floor over such a comparison.
Naseem is a rubbish bowler who has never performed against a good team and can’t even get into the LOI squad. He neither has a past or a future. Archer might not have a future but he has a past that Naseem will probably never eclipse even if he plays for a decade which I don’t think he will considering how awful his bowling is.
Archer’s 2019 alone is bigger than anything Naseem “I like to see fear in batsmen’s eyes but please hit me for a four every over” Shah will achieve in his career.
Only Pakistani fans have the audacity to compare a World Cup winner to a nobody.
The thick tank (I like it!) are pretty clueless at the best of times but in this instance I’m not quite sure who you want to play instead? Especially as Hassan and Rauf were unavailable.
Tabish Khan? That ship has sailed - unfairly and harshly treated in the past but there’s no need to go back there now
Abbas? You might as well pick another spinner. Maybe 3-4 years ago, but he is absolutely useless now.
Hasnain - banned
In this instance probably better getting Naseem some more exposure than taking on some older bowlers. I would have probably preferred Dahani, but the arguments against Naseem also apply to him too.
If Hassan is fit next game and Naseem is selected instead then that’s ridiculous but for this match don’t see much wrong with the selection. Limited options
Irfanullah,Dahani,Sameen Gull
Thanks bro, due to time constraints, I don't much time to look into domestics but is abysmal that thick tank hasn't got any proper development plans in place.
You'd expect 3 or 4 players to be knocking on the door from domestics or players being phased in gradually but we're obsessed with plucking some random kids from the school playground and asking them to go and play Test cricket.
What an embarrassment.
That was a beauty to remove Carey
He’s not been the worst but has leaked runs
One of the rare sensible thing selectors are doing , investing on Naseem. These is no better young fast bowler in Pakistan ( other than Shaheen ). With test match experience against Australia, summer playing country cricket , he will keep improving . Will will make a long term new ball pair with Shaheen for Pakistan.
This highlights my point.
Sohail Khan - he’s had his chance, yesterday’s news. Going back to him is going backwards
Imran Khan - Tried and tested failure
Sameen Gul and Mir Hamza - average under 29 is nothing special to force your way in to contention. I agree they have probably not been given the chances they deserve, but once they haven’t, an average of 29 isn’t going to turn heads.
Naseem being picked ahead of the ones you mentioned is not a shock. Giving either Sameen, Mir a debut against Australia on a dead pitch is just as risky as putting Naseem in.
Personally if they had been selected instead I wouldn’t have a problem either.
My point is there is no one obvious
Giving either Sameen, Mir a debut against Australia on a dead pitch is just as risky as putting Naseem in.
His overs consist of four nothing balls, one good ball followed by a stare, one ball smacked to the boundary.
I'd compare him to someone of a similar age and experience level in Jayden Seales. Yet with Seales you already see someone bowling with control and a good seam.
Naseem may be quick but his pace is useless when constantly bowling both sides of the wicket.
He needs to learn how to swing
Exactly , as of now he thinks fast bowling is only about pace..