[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Saud Shakeel: Essential Or Liability?

[mominsaigol]

His test Average is good and he was by far the best player in the Sri Lankan series and has been our best test batsmen for a while now.

However his slow strike rate, lack of power hitting might be a backwards approach.

With countries such as England focusing on aggression and 300 scores now being on par, Is saud shakeel a worth investment into the odi squad?

 

[Savak]

The team management has been working on his strike rate and range of shots for the limited overs version. He is in good form and they want to make the most of it.

 

[Rana]

He will slot into number 4

Important player

 

[Justcrazy]

He is essential. He is stable middle order batter , he plays spin very well.
He also can be part time spinner.

 

[RidiculousMan]

He is a good player of spin. Has all the experience from List A cricket as well. But can we really afford to play him? His strike rate might be an issue.

Specially when we were looking for that power in middle order and Iftikhar seemed to have brought that for now.

Sure there might be turner wickets in the Asia Cup and a few in the World Cup. But really our middle order for now is Rizwan, Iftikhar and Salman. Right now it's difficult to drop them for Saud.

 

[shamaan]

He's a good player but he always have imaam and Babar who bat at similar strike rates to Saud.

 

[Firebat]

He's essential for the future definitely, I want to see more improvement in ball striking to be a white-ball player.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

we need someone who can consolidate the innings in the middle and saud shakeel has already done it many times in test cricket.. So, a perfect investment for Pakistan Cricket.

 

[Farabi]

Saud Shakeel is the only batsman right now who has the game for no4 followed by Agha.
Those who are saying Saud Shakeel cannot accelerate have no idea what’s about to happen.
There’s no solidity in Pak batting ever. You have been fooled before, this ain’t your first rodeo!
Pak will not be up against B/C attacks , they will be up against A listers at the WC with massive massive pressure. WC matches are low scoring and playing spin will be critical. Expect at least have the games where openers will depart early along with serval collapses along the way. That’s the reality.
I doubt Pak can get to final without Saud in the middle as he’s currently the most solid batter in Pakistan.

Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood, Zampa
Rabada Nortje Marco J
Boult Southee Jamieson Santner
Wood Archer Topley Adil
Bumrah Kuldeep Siraj Shami
Aghan and SL spinners will be very tricky too

 

[Ahmed216]

Saud Shakeel is the only batsman right now who has the game for no4 followed by Agha.
Those who are saying Saud Shakeel cannot accelerate have no idea what’s about to happen.
There’s no solidity in Pak batting ever. You have been fooled before, this ain’t your first rodeo!
Pak will not be up against B/C attacks , they will be up against A listers at the WC with massive massive pressure. WC matches are low scoring and playing spin will be critical. Expect at least have the games where openers will depart early along with serval collapses along the way. That’s the reality.
I doubt Pak can get to final without Saud in the middle as he’s currently the most solid batter in Pakistan.

Starc, Cummins, Hazelwood, Zampa
Rabada Nortje Marco J
Boult Southee Jamieson Santner
Wood Archer Topley Adil
Bumrah Kuldeep Siraj Shami
Aghan and SL spinners will be very tricky too

Finally a sensible post

 

[Farabi]

Wrote it before the collapse seen todays. Shakeel is a must in this fragile house of cards line up

 

[cricenjoyer]

Not needed.

The middle order is almost complete. If their is any change to be made than it maybe Tayab Tahir or Haris considering their second gear but with Iftikhar coming good I really do doubt it

 

[Farabi]

2nd gear comes after 1st gear. Pak needs top 7 batting including Imam, Fakhar, Babar, Saud, Agha, Rizwan and Ifti. Than Shadab and Usama both. And 2 pacers should be rotated.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan have made an addition to their squad for the Men's ODI Asia Cup 2023. Left-handed batter Saud Shakeel has been added to the 17-member squad. Tayyab Tahir, the right-handed batter, will remain with the squad as a travelling reserve.

 

[Finisher]

Essential at 4

 

[controversial_man]

He should be included in asia cup and given a good run to judge his skillsets at position 4 otherwise ifti should come n play at 4 and muhammad rizwan can bat down the order. Ifti needs time in the middle to score big and set the tone.

In Asia cup Pakistan should try chasing totals most of the time just to check the crediblity of pakisan batting. Pakistan bowling seems in good hands. Just to double check and finalize Pakistan batting order for the world cup.

 

[mominsaigol]

He should be included in asia cup and given a good run to judge his skillsets at position 4 otherwise ifti should come n play at 4 and muhammad rizwan can bat down the order. Ifti needs time in the middle to score big and set the tone.

In Asia cup Pakistan should try chasing totals most of the time just to check the crediblity of pakisan batting. Pakistan bowling seems in good hands. Just to double check and finalize Pakistan batting order for the world cup.

Ifti doesn't deserve to be in the pakistani squad. I have nothing against chacha but he's a mediocre player. Imad waseem is a better bat and a better bowler then chacha not to mention 10 years younger.

 

[Marooned]

Sooo was he selected based on 2 4s? Or what's the thinking here? I mean what changed?

Anyway, if they want to give him a chance, give him a proper chance @ 4.

Still feel Tahir is a better bet for odis.

 

[mominsaigol]

Sooo was he selected based on 2 4s? Or what's the thinking here? I mean what changed?

Anyway, if they want to give him a chance, give him a proper chance @ 4.

Still feel Tahir is a better bet for odis.

Test tahir, saud and Abdullah, and then decide 2 out of 3 that will succeed and be permanent members in the 11. That's what pak management needs to do.

 

[Marooned]

Test tahir, saud and Abdullah, and then decide 2 out of 3 that will succeed and be permanent members in the 11. That's what pak management needs to do.

Yeah, I agree.

Don't think Abdullah has a claim though.

 

[ads101]

Sooo was he selected based on 2 4s? Or what's the thinking here? I mean what changed?

Anyway, if they want to give him a chance, give him a proper chance @ 4.

Still feel Tahir is a better bet for odis.

It's hilarious that he was selected based on 2 boundaries and then out. But I would have done the exact same. He looked in form, with the type of pitches in Asia and the asia cup, and considering our batting was struggling this series in terms of lasting 50 overs (it wasn't simply lack of acceleration), it seems like the right decision. Probably should have been part of the original sqyad

I'd still play Iftikhar in the actual team as Iftikhar has done nothing to lose his place and was recently performing in both T20s and ODIs. I probably wouldn't have rested Iftikhar either for this final ODI as players need form for asia cup. I hate when we give chances like this stop start. It's also one of the reasons we don't know where we stand on Iftikhar because we pick and drop him repeatedly as well as keep messing around his place. Give him a long run at a more or less settled place (which should be 6, it's the position he's had the most success in). If we decide to move on from him, pretty much drop him and back the guy replacing him.

There's a few of these players, Iftikhar, Mohammed Wasim, Asif Ali, Faheem Ashraf, Nawaz, Usama Mir and Usman Qadir who seem to be in and out of the team constantly. Partly to do with the fact that they're a bit inconsistent. But because we're constantly swapping around and dropping/picking them, we can never make a decision whether they should really be part of our long term plans or not.

 

[Firebat]

A proper batter like Shakeel who's not a bits and pieces player, but someone who has the potential to play a big innings, build a big partnership and play the spin well is essential at #4 IMO.

 

[msb314]

A proper batter like Shakeel who's not a bits and pieces player, but someone who has the potential to play a big innings, build a big partnership and play the spin well is essential at #4 IMO.

This absolutely - give him 10+ overs in ODI’s and we’ll all see his real capabilities

 

[mominsaigol]

It's hilarious that he was selected based on 2 boundaries and then out. But I would have done the exact same. He looked in form, with the type of pitches in Asia and the asia cup, and considering our batting was struggling this series in terms of lasting 50 overs (it wasn't simply lack of acceleration), it seems like the right decision. Probably should have been part of the original sqyad

I'd still play Iftikhar in the actual team as Iftikhar has done nothing to lose his place and was recently performing in both T20s and ODIs. I probably wouldn't have rested Iftikhar either for this final ODI as players need form for asia cup. I hate when we give chances like this stop start. It's also one of the reasons we don't know where we stand on Iftikhar because we pick and drop him repeatedly as well as keep messing around his place. Give him a long run at a more or less settled place (which should be 6, it's the position he's had the most success in). If we decide to move on from him, pretty much drop him and back the guy replacing him.

There's a few of these players, Iftikhar, Mohammed Wasim, Asif Ali, Faheem Ashraf, Nawaz, Usama Mir and Usman Qadir who seem to be in and out of the team constantly. Partly to do with the fact that they're a bit inconsistent. But because we're constantly swapping around and dropping/picking them, we can never make a decision whether they should really be part of our long term plans or not.

All of you are acting as if Saud has done nothing in his career besides hit 2 boundaries and got selected .

Saud deserved selection long before that, he has been Pakistan's best test batsmen, one look at him and you'd know he's a master of spin hence averaging 133 against it. In the Sri lanka series we won because of saud, Abdullah and one contribution from agha.

The same bowler who persistently lbw'd babar 3 times and caused him massive trouble, saud played him and dominated him like he was a club Level bowler.

Imam, Babar and sarfraz didn't show good performances in the Sri lanka test series, saud did and ironically saud batted at a higher strike rate then Babar and actually maintained the 4 runs per over tempo that is usually required in test, unlike Babar and imam who usually goes for 2 to 3 runs per over and therefore get their innings to a draw.

Management set saud up to fail by bringing him in the 35th over where he was constantly trying to tske singles, and yes it was silly of him to take the run, but had he been Introduced at 4, then we wouldn't have had that problem. Like it or not, Saud is better then rizwan. Yes rizwan is a good batsmen and should still play at no 5 which I have advocated, but saud is better plain and simple.

 

[Third Man]

Solid, proper batsman. I like him but he might be a bit too slow for the middle order. I'd still definitely give him chances. He and abdullah should compete for the 4th position. But it has to be #4. Rizwan is not a better batsman than either of these two.

 

[Mercurial]

Despite his reasonable batting average, he isn't suited for the ODI team due to his inadequate strike rate. I'd opt for Tayyab Tahir on the bench instead.

 

[shamaan]

Sooo was he selected based on 2 4s? Or what's the thinking here? I mean what changed?

Anyway, if they want to give him a chance, give him a proper chance @ 4.

Still feel Tahir is a better bet for odis.

To be honest as soon as he came in he looked at ease.

 

[shamaan]

If Saud is in the xi he needs to bat at 4

 

[mominsaigol]

Despite his reasonable batting average, he isn't suited for the ODI team due to his inadequate strike rate. I'd opt for Tayyab Tahir on the bench instead.

Inadequate strike rate? He's faster then imam, and played faster in the Sri Lankan test series then Babar, Imam and Abdullah. How is an 83 strike rate and a 50+ average in list A slow by any means?

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

Inadequate strike rate? He's faster then imam, and played faster in the Sri Lankan test series then Babar, Imam and Abdullah. How is an 83 strike rate and a 50+ average in list A slow by any means?

Why are you constantly bringing up Test stats into ODIs? Both formats are different & success in one format does not mean you will succeed in other.

Why are you bringing Saud's 133 avg against spin in your every post? It's irrelevant in ODIs where spinners bowl a much flatter trajectory. There's a reason Saud's SR is just 83 in ODIs. Aus dropped Labuschagne whose SR is 85+.

We already have Imam, Babar, Rizwan as 3 consolidators. There's no need for 4th consolidator. Top teams are consistently scoring & chasing 340 totals. So, only 2 consolidators are enough i-e: Babar & Rizwan. Rizwan will be better ODI opener than Imam. All other top teams have only 1 consolidator each.

Aus dropped Labuschagne. Eng barely included Root in ODIs. & Our geniuses want 4 consolidators in XI. !!!

Tayyab Tahir is better against flatter ODI spin while Saud is better for Test level spin bowling.

Dropping Tayyab was a bad bad decision by selectors.

------

You want Rizwan at 5 with SR of around 90. Are we playing in early 2010's? Other teams have batters at 5 who strike at over 100 like Buttler, Rahul/Pandya, Maxwell & Phillips etc.
Only powerhitters we have are Tayyab against spin & Chacha against medium pace. So one of them is must.

------

in another post, you expressed your desire of Zaman Khan & Imad Wasim bowling last 20 overs in ODIs. Where would you fit Zaman in a line-up of Naseem Shaheen Haris Shadab & Nawaz/Abrar/Wasim/Faheem? Do you want to go in with 6 bowlers & 5 batters?
Imad's ER in T20 leagues is shooting up & you still want him to bowl death overs of ODIs? Imad's ODI bowling avg is 44 while Nawaz's avg is just 30. A difference of 14. It clearly shows Nawaz is much better ODI spinner than other way round.

 

[Farabi]

Why are you constantly bringing up Test stats into ODIs? Both formats are different & success in one format does not mean you will succeed in other.

Why are you bringing Saud's 133 avg against spin in your every post? It's irrelevant in ODIs where spinners bowl a much flatter trajectory. There's a reason Saud's SR is just 83 in ODIs. Aus dropped Labuschagne whose SR is 85+.

We already have Imam, Babar, Rizwan as 3 consolidators. There's no need for 4th consolidator. Top teams are consistently scoring & chasing 340 totals. So, only 2 consolidators are enough i-e: Babar & Rizwan. Rizwan will be better ODI opener than Imam. All other top teams have only 1 consolidator each.

Aus dropped Labuschagne. Eng barely included Root in ODIs. & Our geniuses want 4 consolidators in XI. !!!

Tayyab Tahir is better against flatter ODI spin while Saud is better for Test level spin bowling.

Dropping Tayyab was a bad bad decision by selectors.

------

You want Rizwan at 5 with SR of around 90. Are we playing in early 2010's? Other teams have batters at 5 who strike at over 100 like Buttler, Rahul/Pandya, Maxwell & Phillips etc.
Only powerhitters we have are Tayyab against spin & Chacha against medium pace. So one of them is must.

------

in another post, you expressed your desire of Zaman Khan & Imad Wasim bowling last 20 overs in ODIs. Where would you fit Zaman in a line-up of Naseem Shaheen Haris Shadab & Nawaz/Abrar/Wasim/Faheem? Do you want to go in with 6 bowlers & 5 batters?
Imad's ER in T20 leagues is shooting up & you still want him to bowl death overs of ODIs? Imad's ODI bowling avg is 44 while Nawaz's avg is just 30. A difference of 14. It clearly shows Nawaz is much better ODI spinner than other way round.

This analysis lacks a foundation in reality. In the recent ODI series against Afghanistan, Pakistan struggled to complete 50 overs. Yet, we're discussing impractical strategies involving non-existent Powerhitters. We've already tried that approach and moved on from players like Khusdil, Haider, Haris, Asif, and others.
Labu was dropped due to poor ODI performance, averaging only 25 over the past year. He's been replaced with "accumulators." Rahul isn't a Powerhitter either, with a modest SR of 78 as an ODI opener. Most teams, except England, rely on accumulators in the middle order because no one else has that kind of talent coming through the pathways.
India is placing hope in Iyer and Rahul at 4 and 5, with Jadeja at 6. Pakistan lacks ready-made talents like Pandya and Glenn, so they should focus on their strengths and address weaknesses. Like how other teams lack 90 mph bowlers, Pakistan has its unique strengths too. To score 300-350, accumulators are crucial in today's cricket with smaller grounds and field restrictions. When Babar and Imam score centuries, Pakistan usually reaches 300. Prioritizing solid batters like Saud is wiser than relying on pseudo powerhitters.

 

[Farabi]

Inzi, Arthur, and Babar swiftly made a move by including Saud at the eleventh hour. They possess a clear understanding of the team's talent level and the upcoming challenges. Recognizing the gradual and tricky nature of the pitches in the Asia Cup, coupled with the potential for our batters to flourish, the duo of Fakhar and Babar facing spin uncertainties, and Cacha and Rizwan displaying incomplete skills against spin, the team requires a batsman who can navigate the 20-40 overs period effectively.

Facing spinners like Kuldeep, Axar, and Jadeja on sluggish wickets presents a formidable challenge. Players such as Haris, Cachu, and Tayyab won't be the solution. Tayyab notably struggled against Afghan spinners, whereas Haris and Cacha both look like tailenders vs spinners.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

It's absolutely the right decision to immediately add Saud Shakeel to the squad. We lack any solid player in the middle overs who can effectively handle the 20 overs of spin.

 

[ahmadharis1]

We need a middle order batsman, and in 50 over cricket he averages 44 at an 84 SR, and is a handy slow left arm bowler as well. Get him in the team no question

 

[mominsaigol]

Why are you constantly bringing up Test stats into ODIs? Both formats are different & success in one format does not mean you will succeed in other.

Why are you bringing Saud's 133 avg against spin in your every post? It's irrelevant in ODIs where spinners bowl a much flatter trajectory. There's a reason Saud's SR is just 83 in ODIs. Aus dropped Labuschagne whose SR is 85+.

We already have Imam, Babar, Rizwan as 3 consolidators. There's no need for 4th consolidator. Top teams are consistently scoring & chasing 340 totals. So, only 2 consolidators are enough i-e: Babar & Rizwan. Rizwan will be better ODI opener than Imam. All other top teams have only 1 consolidator each.

Aus dropped Labuschagne. Eng barely included Root in ODIs. & Our geniuses want 4 consolidators in XI. !!!

Tayyab Tahir is better against flatter ODI spin while Saud is better for Test level spin bowling.

Dropping Tayyab was a bad bad decision by selectors.

------

You want Rizwan at 5 with SR of around 90. Are we playing in early 2010's? Other teams have batters at 5 who strike at over 100 like Buttler, Rahul/Pandya, Maxwell & Phillips etc.
Only powerhitters we have are Tayyab against spin & Chacha against medium pace. So one of them is must.

------

in another post, you expressed your desire of Zaman Khan & Imad Wasim bowling last 20 overs in ODIs. Where would you fit Zaman in a line-up of Naseem Shaheen Haris Shadab & Nawaz/Abrar/Wasim/Faheem? Do you want to go in with 6 bowlers & 5 batters?
Imad's ER in T20 leagues is shooting up & you still want him to bowl death overs of ODIs? Imad's ODI bowling avg is 44 while Nawaz's avg is just 30. A difference of 14. It clearly shows Nawaz is much better ODI spinner than other way round.

"Why are you constantly bringing up Test stats into Odi"

Because in Saud's case, It shows he cam stay and actually accumulate, much better then Rizwan, Rizwan's struggles in Test reflect his struggles in Odi since in Test rizwan can't bat for more then 20 overs, a problem he has had in odi as well, and why t20 is the only format he's good in to make his quickfire 50 to 70.

"Why are you bringing saud's 133 avg in every post"

Bhai Sri Lanka bowled a flat Trajectory to Babar multiple times and Babar kept getting put lbw, the same happened in the first odi where Babar got put the same way when mujeeb bowled the same Trajectory, this Trajectory is something saud has never struggled with, and something, Babar, agha, rizwan have struggled with. Only Imam and saud are conformable with this Trajectory. Test or odi does not matter if someone's averaging over 100 against spin, it means their a good player of spin lol.

"Theors a reason saud avg is just 83, aus dropped lasbuschagne for striking at 85"

Aus dropped him for averaging 25 and showcasing horrible performances. Rahul has a 78 strike rate, most batsmen in world cricket have a strike rate of 80 to 90. You're acting as if we have 100+ strike rate players with 40+ averages like England just sitting in the ranks.

"Teams are consistently scoring 340+"

No their not, not against good quality teams, no team is CONSISTENTLY scoring 340+, not even England. Their more accumulators in world cricket then their power hitters, the experiment with harder Ali, asif Ali, umar akmal and these types of players have failed. Pakistan under Imam and Babar have chased 300+ scores 5 to 6x and have only failed once or 2x, compare that to a total of nearly 48 failures and like only 3 succesful chases in all of pur cricketing years, especially something that was reflected during our 2007 to 2015 days.

"You want rizwan at no 5 with a strike rate of 90?"

Rahul Sk is lower then rizwan at that position, and Butler, Maxwell Average 40+ with 100+ strike rates, their is not a single batsmen in Pakistan who comes close to that, go replace rizwan with someone like asif Ali or Muhammad haris and see what happenes, a fully blossomed haris will still never be anywhere near Butler and won't come close to winning games.

With our so called power hitters Pakistan gets put at 220 to 250 hence the 48x loss record. Under Babar and Imam we've chased 5 to 6 times and have more 300 chases then losses.

"Rizwan will be a better odi Opener then Imam"

Joke of the century, a guy who lacks the ability to stay at the crease for the long haul, something he's been exposed with time and time and time again in t20 and odi, and starts running like a maniac often getting run out, is going to be better then the most consistent Opener who has helped in chasing 300+ totals and usually bats with a strike rate of 85 to 90 till the 40th and contributing lol.

"All other top teams have one consolidator each"

With the exception of England, you're wrong.

In my other post I clearly said Zaman shpuld only be backups, I've written my team down multiple times but I'll write it again.

1) Fakhar/ Abdullah (Depending on fakhar's form)
2) Imam ul Haq
3) Babar Azam
4) Saud Shakeel
5) Muhammad Rizwan/ Tayyab Tahir (Rizwan first choice)
6) Salman Agha/ Muhammad Haris ( I want haris to bat, but unfortunately agha needs to bat for 6th bowling option, so sadly no 6 is our weakest link in the line up)
7) Imad Waseem
8) Shadab Khan/ Abrar
9) Naseem Shah
10) Haris Rauf/ Zaman Khan ( Haris 1st choice)
11) Shaheen Shah Afridi

^^ This team has 6 bowlers, 3 spinners and 3 fast bowlers, why is it difficult to grasp?

 

[mominsaigol]

Inzi, Arthur, and Babar swiftly made a move by including Saud at the eleventh hour. They possess a clear understanding of the team's talent level and the upcoming challenges. Recognizing the gradual and tricky nature of the pitches in the Asia Cup, coupled with the potential for our batters to flourish, the duo of Fakhar and Babar facing spin uncertainties, and Cacha and Rizwan displaying incomplete skills against spin, the team requires a batsman who can navigate the 20-40 overs period effectively.

Facing spinners like Kuldeep, Axar, and Jadeja on sluggish wickets presents a formidable challenge. Players such as Haris, Cachu, and Tayyab won't be the solution. Tayyab notably struggled against Afghan spinners, whereas Haris and Cacha both look like tailenders vs spinners.

Tayyab should have still been a given a game alongside Abdullah imo. But saud is definitely 1st choice.

 

[Third Man]

Why are you constantly bringing up Test stats into ODIs? Both formats are different & success in one format does not mean you will succeed in other.

Why are you bringing Saud's 133 avg against spin in your every post? It's irrelevant in ODIs where spinners bowl a much flatter trajectory. There's a reason Saud's SR is just 83 in ODIs. Aus dropped Labuschagne whose SR is 85+.

We already have Imam, Babar, Rizwan as 3 consolidators. There's no need for 4th consolidator. Top teams are consistently scoring & chasing 340 totals. So, only 2 consolidators are enough i-e: Babar & Rizwan. Rizwan will be better ODI opener than Imam. All other top teams have only 1 consolidator each.

Aus dropped Labuschagne. Eng barely included Root in ODIs. & Our geniuses want 4 consolidators in XI. !!!

Tayyab Tahir is better against flatter ODI spin while Saud is better for Test level spin bowling.

Dropping Tayyab was a bad bad decision by selectors.

------

You want Rizwan at 5 with SR of around 90. Are we playing in early 2010's? Other teams have batters at 5 who strike at over 100 like Buttler, Rahul/Pandya, Maxwell & Phillips etc.
Only powerhitters we have are Tayyab against spin & Chacha against medium pace. So one of them is must.

------

in another post, you expressed your desire of Zaman Khan & Imad Wasim bowling last 20 overs in ODIs. Where would you fit Zaman in a line-up of Naseem Shaheen Haris Shadab & Nawaz/Abrar/Wasim/Faheem? Do you want to go in with 6 bowlers & 5 batters?
Imad's ER in T20 leagues is shooting up & you still want him to bowl death overs of ODIs? Imad's ODI bowling avg is 44 while Nawaz's avg is just 30. A difference of 14. It clearly shows Nawaz is much better ODI spinner than other way round.

Such a long post wasted on an average player in Tayyab Tahir. He might be able to bash average spin but he's not an international standard batsman. He shouldn't have been selected in the first place. He's a sitting duck against a real fast bowler. I think they saw that and rightly demoted him to reserve status. That said, I'd want a batsman with a few more shots than Saud Shakeel. Abdullah Shafiq has every shot in the book and is a better player of pace so I'd go with him at 4.

Agree with Nawaz being a better bowler than Imad Waseem.

 

[mominsaigol]

Such a long post wasted on an average player in Tayyab Tahir. He might be able to bash average spin but he's not an international standard batsman. He shouldn't have been selected in the first place. He's a sitting duck against a real fast bowler. I think they saw that and rightly demoted him to reserve status. That said, I'd want a batsman with a few more shots than Saud Shakeel. Abdullah Shafiq has every shot in the book and is a better player of pace so I'd go with him at 4.

Agree with Nawaz being a better bowler than Imad Waseem.

Saud and Abdullah are the future. Although imo Abdullah should open. He seems to lack confidence at no 4.

Imad is a better bowler if you bowl him after over 30, imad bowls wicket to wicket with awkward line and length for the batsmen. He's good in t20 because batsmen urgently need to get a move on. In odi bowling his too early makes him a non threat since batsmen can nudge him away and just just for imad to make a mistake so they can dispatch him.

Bowling him after over 30 and he'll get odi wickets. Imad is always first choice for babar in t20. Sad that inzi doesn't pick him.

 

[Farabi]

Such a long post wasted on an average player in Tayyab Tahir. He might be able to bash average spin but he's not an international standard batsman. He shouldn't have been selected in the first place. He's a sitting duck against a real fast bowler. I think they saw that and rightly demoted him to reserve status. That said, I'd want a batsman with a few more shots than Saud Shakeel. Abdullah Shafiq has every shot in the book and is a better player of pace so I'd go with him at 4.

Agree with Nawaz being a better bowler than Imad Waseem.

It’s not just about the arsenal of “shots available”, it’s so much more. Saud has gone through the grind of several seasons and he’s a ready product. We haven’t seen enough of Saud in the shorter formats on easier pitches and bowling to comment yet. Abdullah is def quality but he is not a ready product yet.

 

[mominsaigol]

It’s not just about the arsenal of “shots available”, it’s so much more. Saud has gone through the grind of several seasons and he’s a ready product. We haven’t seen enough of Saud in the shorter formats on easier pitches and bowling to comment yet. Abdullah is def quality but he is not a ready product yet.

Both saud and Abdullah are ready products. Saud is just better at no 4, and Abdullah is better for opening. Abdullah is a ready product because he regained his confidence in the Sri Lankan series. He's got the technique and temperament. He just lacked confidence which affects a players ability to score.

Saud is a better no 4, and Abdullah is suited for opening. However Abdullah doesn't have a place yet because he doesn't replace imam or fakhar. Fakhar is needed as the impact, and fakhar won't fail in every match, so he is a match winner. Imam is consistent and better then Abdullah overall due to experience and better gane awareness but Abdullah is better at stroke play and more naturally talented then imam is.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

It's absolutely the right decision to immediately add Saud Shakeel to the squad. We lack any solid player in the middle overs who can effectively handle the 20 overs of spin.

Only Afg has 3/4 genuine spinners --- 30 / 40 overs of spin
All other teams have 1 quality spinner & 1 part timer. Kuldeep, Adil & Mo, Zampa & Maxwell, Shamshi, Santner --- Max 15 overs of spin in non-Afg matches.
Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Agha, Chacha & Shadab etc should be able to handle 10+5 overs of spin.

To those who are saying 1- Rahul is not a powerhitter & 2- only Eng has powerhitters while other rely on accumulators in middle overs of ODIs:-
1) Rahul has a great range & 360 game. He avgs 53 with SR of nearly 100 at 5. His SR while opening was poor so india demoted him to middle order where he flourished.
2) Let's analyze potential batting line-up of top ODI teams.
Aus: Warner, Head, Smith, Marsh, Stoinis, Maxwell, Green, Carey
Eng: Roy, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Livingstone/Mo, Curran
Ind: Rohit, Gill, Kohli, Iyer, Rahul, SKY/Tilak, Pandya
SA: only accumulator they have is their captain Bavuma & to some extent Markram.
NZ: They have Kane(injured) & Latham as accumulators.
Pak: Fakhar Imam, Babar, Saud, Rizwan, ---- 4 accumulators !

All these teams have only 1 accumulator. Kohli has 4th gear. Root can also improvise in death overs & has variety of strokes. Smith also improved his SR & has 2 100s in 58 balls against India.
Do you think Imam or Babar or Saud or Rizwan etc have the ability to ever score 60 ball 100s in middle overs?

ICC/India will most likely prepare flat pitches to maximize match length to earn maximum revenue. In modern era, teams that score maximum scoreable runs on any given pitch have more chances of winning. T20 WC SF 2021, Asia Cup Final 2022, T20 WC F 2022 --- these are 3 straight losses in a row.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

--- continued ---
I hope you remember Pak's last 2 ODI series against Eng (in 2019, in 2021 or 22). Pak - batting 1st - scored in excess of 300 almost every match & 350+ at-least twice. Babar & Imam scored 100s for fun albeit at slower SR. Eng successfully chased every time in about 45 overs. Loading team with accumulators will always result in leaving some runs out there on the pitch.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

"Rizwan will be a better odi Opener then Imam"

Joke of the century, a guy who lacks the ability to stay at the crease for the long haul, something he's been exposed with time and time and time again in t20 and odi, and starts running like a maniac often getting run out, is going to be better then the most consistent Opener who has helped in chasing 300+ totals and usually bats with a strike rate of 85 to 90 till the 40th and contributing lol.

Rizwan has opened in T20Is. He is opener or one down for his List A team KPK. Once set, he usually improves his SR too. That's why part of me thinks he will be better suited to open in ODIs than in T20s.

 

[Farabi]

Both saud and Abdullah are ready products. Saud is just better at no 4, and Abdullah is better for opening. Abdullah is a ready product because he regained his confidence in the Sri Lankan series. He's got the technique and temperament. He just lacked confidence which affects a players ability to score.

Saud is a better no 4, and Abdullah is suited for opening. However Abdullah doesn't have a place yet because he doesn't replace imam or fakhar. Fakhar is needed as the impact, and fakhar won't fail in every match, so he is a match winner. Imam is consistent and better then Abdullah overall due to experience and better gane awareness but Abdullah is better at stroke play and more naturally talented then imam is.

A ready product is one who’s gone though the rigors of domestic cricket for 5 years or more. They have at least that much pro work experience.
There is no comparison between Saud and Abdullah. Saud Shakeel has played 67 FC games to 2 is a much more mature player.

 

[Farabi]

There's a comparison between Saud and Abdullah today.

Saud Shakeel boasts an impressive record of 67 FC games, averaging 54, along with 78 List A games at an average of 45. This adds up to a total of 111 games, spanning seasons on pre-2019 mamba wickets and 'pumpa' balls.

In contrast, Abdullah's experience is limited, having participated in only 26 FC games and 7 List A games.

Statistically, Saud possesses four times the experience of Abdullah, a factor that's evident in his maturity and refined skills.

While Abdullah possesses immense talent, it's important to note that he is primarily a top-order batter not a middle order bagger and hasn't yet proven himself in List A matches or the PSL. His time to shine will undoubtedly arrive, and he should focus on honing his skills further in domestic cricket.

 

[Farabi]

Only Afg has 3/4 genuine spinners --- 30 / 40 overs of spin
All other teams have 1 quality spinner & 1 part timer. Kuldeep, Adil & Mo, Zampa & Maxwell, Shamshi, Santner --- Max 15 overs of spin in non-Afg matches.
Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Agha, Chacha & Shadab etc should be able to handle 10+5 overs of spin.

To those who are saying 1- Rahul is not a powerhitter & 2- only Eng has powerhitters while other rely on accumulators in middle overs of ODIs:-
1) Rahul has a great range & 360 game. He avgs 53 with SR of nearly 100 at 5. His SR while opening was poor so india demoted him to middle order where he flourished.
2) Let's analyze potential batting line-up of top ODI teams.
Aus: Warner, Head, Smith, Marsh, Stoinis, Maxwell, Green, Carey
Eng: Roy, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Livingstone/Mo, Curran
Ind: Rohit, Gill, Kohli, Iyer, Rahul, SKY/Tilak, Pandya
SA: only accumulator they have is their captain Bavuma & to some extent Markram.
NZ: They have Kane(injured) & Latham as accumulators.
Pak: Fakhar Imam, Babar, Saud, Rizwan, ---- 4 accumulators !

All these teams have only 1 accumulator. Kohli has 4th gear. Root can also improvise in death overs & has variety of strokes. Smith also improved his SR & has 2 100s in 58 balls against India.
Do you think Imam or Babar or Saud or Rizwan etc have the ability to ever score 60 ball 100s in middle overs?

ICC/India will most likely prepare flat pitches to maximize match length to earn maximum revenue. In modern era, teams that score maximum scoreable runs on any given pitch have more chances of winning. T20 WC SF 2021, Asia Cup Final 2022, T20 WC F 2022 --- these are 3 straight losses in a row.

Certainly, it's a fact that Pakistan should ideally be proficient in handling spin, but they've shown difficulties in the T20 and ODIs vs Afghanistan and the recent test series vs SL. Pak was bailed out by Imam, Saud, and Abdullah S, who have shown ability to tackle quality spin bowlers. This reality cannot be denied.

"Accumulators" in cricket refer to players who steadily build up their score over time, focusing on minimizing risks while adding runs. This approach characterizes the top 5 batters of teams like India, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. These players are adept at accumulating runs with a low-risk strategy, which defines effective batting in the top order. The SRs of these players is generally 10 points higher due to the nature of pitches they play on.

 

[Falcon'sParwaz]

"Accumulators" in cricket refer to players who steadily build up their score over time, focusing on minimizing risks while adding runs. This approach characterizes the top 5 batters of teams like India, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.

Their accumulators have 4th gear too. It means they can exploit their grind after getting set. Root, Smith, Kane etc all have great range too. Currently we don't have this luxury. Only Fakhar is capable of accelerating but he is an opener & is inconsistent these days.

In India, pacers or medium pacers will bowl 30 to 35/36 overs per innings while spinners will bowl rest 15 overs for all teams except spin reliant teams like Afg BD. So handling spin should not be a rigorous priority in selecting batters except against Afg & BD. All other teams have just 1 regular spinner and 1 part timer. If Babar Imam Fakhar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab can't handle dollies of Maxwell & Head, Markram, Mo, Livingstone & Root, Glenn Phillips of NZ & Dasun Shanka etc on relatively flat indian pitches, we have no business being there in WC.

 

[adi_62941]

If harris sohail is not available then saud shakeel is an absolute necessity. Our batting lineup except top 3 is an absolute joke and it will be our weak link against top teams in crunch matches.
Saud will provide necessary stability in middle order and can anchor the innings.

 

[Third Man]

It’s not just about the arsenal of “shots available”, it’s so much more. Saud has gone through the grind of several seasons and he’s a ready product. We haven’t seen enough of Saud in the shorter formats on easier pitches and bowling to comment yet. Abdullah is def quality but he is not a ready product yet.

Well, 4 test 100s and 4 50s in 14 test matches, including a double hundred doesn't scream "not ready" to me.

 

[Third Man]

Saud and Abdullah are the future. Although imo Abdullah should open. He seems to lack confidence at no 4.

Imad is a better bowler if you bowl him after over 30, imad bowls wicket to wicket with awkward line and length for the batsmen. He's good in t20 because batsmen urgently need to get a move on. In odi bowling his too early makes him a non threat since batsmen can nudge him away and just just for imad to make a mistake so they can dispatch him.

Bowling him after over 30 and he'll get odi wickets. Imad is always first choice for babar in t20. Sad that inzi doesn't pick him.

Abdullah can play anywhere from 1-4. Number 4 is mostly about milking singles and doubles and putting the bad balls away. Abdullah is more than capable of doing that. That said, I'd be fine with Shakeel too. He's a solid player and deserves his chance based on his domestic record.

 

[mominsaigol]

Abdullah can play anywhere from 1-4. Number 4 is mostly about milking singles and doubles and putting the bad balls away. Abdullah is more than capable of doing that. That said, I'd be fine with Shakeel too. He's a solid player and deserves his chance based on his domestic record.

I agree but Abdullah is still better suited to opening in my opinion. I think saud is a better no 4 then Abdullah is. But Abdullah is groomed properly has the potential to become an ATG, something indont see saud achieving, saud is just in the category of very good player. Abdullah has the babar Azam and kholi potential, but we shall see.

 

[Farabi]

Their accumulators have 4th gear too. It means they can exploit their grind after getting set. Root, Smith, Kane etc all have great range too. Currently we don't have this luxury. Only Fakhar is capable of accelerating but he is an opener & is inconsistent these days.

In India, pacers or medium pacers will bowl 30 to 35/36 overs per innings while spinners will bowl rest 15 overs for all teams except spin reliant teams like Afg BD. So handling spin should not be a rigorous priority in selecting batters except against Afg & BD. All other teams have just 1 regular spinner and 1 part timer. If Babar Imam Fakhar Rizwan Agha Chacha Shadab can't handle dollies of Maxwell & Head, Markram, Mo, Livingstone & Root, Glenn Phillips of NZ & Dasun Shanka etc on relatively flat indian pitches, we have no business being there in WC.

Do you possess any data about this? Over the past 1-2 years, Pakistan's batting strike rates have shown improvement and are now at least on par with Australia, New Zealand, and India. To be competitive in the top 5 in ODIs, having solid performance in the first 3 gears is crucial, while the 4th gear is more of a luxury. Unfortunately, Pakistan has been struggling to play out the full 50 overs in around 30% of their matches, so discussing luxuries is not appropriate at the moment. The kind of batting talent you’re discussing is non-existent in Pakistan just as Shaheen type of talent is non-existent in India. Resources determine strategy, not the other way round.
Regarding spin, Pakistan will face a significant spin challenge in the upcoming Asia Cup and World Cup. Stay tuned, as Pakistan's batting against spin might be exposed soon.

 

[Farabi]

Well, 4 test 100s and 4 50s in 14 test matches, including a double hundred doesn't scream "not ready" to me.

He has received minimal refinement in domestic cricket and is now evolving as an international-level player. He hasn't achieved much in white-ball cricket so far. On the other hand, Saud, in contrast, has clearly demonstrated his abilities at positions three and four in List A.

 

[Third Man]

Do you possess any data about this? Over the past 1-2 years, Pakistan's batting strike rates have shown improvement and are now at least on par with Australia, New Zealand, and India. To be competitive in the top 5 in ODIs, having solid performance in the first 3 gears is crucial, while the 4th gear is more of a luxury. Unfortunately, Pakistan has been struggling to play out the full 50 overs in around 30% of their matches, so discussing luxuries is not appropriate at the moment. The kind of batting talent you’re discussing is non-existent in Pakistan just as Shaheen type of talent is non-existent in India. Resources determine strategy, not the other way round.
Regarding spin, Pakistan will face a significant spin challenge in the upcoming Asia Cup and World Cup. Stay tuned, as Pakistan's batting against spin might be exposed soon.

Agree with the general thoughts about batting talent in Pakistan. However, I don't think the world cup is going to have many spinning tracks. May be a few in the later stages of the league stage, but overall LOI pitches in India tend to be quite true and batting friendly. I'm also hearing that due to the time of the year the world cup is being played, we might see a few seaming wickets as well. Let's see.

 

[Farabi]

Relatively speaking, some Indian wickets are going to be truer, but spin will play a much bigger role nevertheless. In any case, Pakistan should go to the WC fully equipped.

 

[Farabi]

Tayyab should have still been a given a game alongside Abdullah imo. But saud is definitely 1st choice.

I agree with this. Tayyab has PROVEN himself as a middle order LOI batter in list A.
My guess is Abdullah is a backup to openers, whereas one of Ifti/Saud is backup to the middle order.

 

[ZaidTR]

Replace him with Ifthikar

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Agree with the general thoughts about batting talent in Pakistan. However, I don't think the world cup is going to have many spinning tracks. May be a few in the later stages of the league stage, but overall LOI pitches in India tend to be quite true and batting friendly. I'm also hearing that due to the time of the year the world cup is being played, we might see a few seaming wickets as well. Let's see.

This is right. Spin is overrated in ODI's nowadays and even in India, they don't find much success in the middle overs.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

On topic, Shakeel would be a mistake. Don't confuse his ability vs spin in Tests to that in LOI's. Pujara was a monster player of spin on rank turners at his peak. Should he have played ODI's too? YK was a great player of spin until the end in Tests. But was an absolute trash player in ODI's from about 2009 onwards.

A middle order of Babar at 3, Rizwan at 4, and Shakeel at 5 will cost you matches. Calling it right now

 

[Farabi]

This is right. Spin is overrated in ODI's nowadays and even in India, they don't find much success in the middle overs.

Half of top ranked bowlers in ICC ODIs are spinners. Asia Cup and WC are round the corner, so we will all get to see how important spin is.

 

[Farabi]

On topic, Shakeel would be a mistake. Don't confuse his ability vs spin in Tests to that in LOI's. Pujara was a monster player of spin on rank turners at his peak. Should he have played ODI's too? YK was a great player of spin until the end in Tests. But was an absolute trash player in ODI's from about 2009 onwards.

A middle order of Babar at 3, Rizwan at 4, and Shakeel at 5 will cost you matches. Calling it right now

Yes, but Shakeel hasn’t played ODIs so it’s premature to conclude based on assumptions. Just because he did well in test cricket doesn’t automatically draw comparison with YK or Pujara. After 15-20 ODIs a conclusion can be made.

My guess is that Saud will do well in ODIs and much better than YK and Pujara if given consistent chances.

 

[mominsaigol]

On topic, Shakeel would be a mistake. Don't confuse his ability vs spin in Tests to that in LOI's. Pujara was a monster player of spin on rank turners at his peak. Should he have played ODI's too? YK was a great player of spin until the end in Tests. But was an absolute trash player in ODI's from about 2009 onwards.

A middle order of Babar at 3, Rizwan at 4, and Shakeel at 5 will cost you matches. Calling it right now

Shakeel is good in fast as well, not just spin. It's just spin is his stronger suit. Don't know much about pujara, haven't seen him play, but theirs a reason Younis was terrible in odi and good in tests.

It's the same reason misbah could score 100 of 58 but can't get a single century in odi and the sane reason azhar was solid in tests during his prime amd just average in odi.

2 words (Mindset + Technique)

YK had a very very awkward Technique for odi. His Technique doesn't allow him to just get a move on (even in test he could do it occasionally), but in test you don't always need to get a move on, it's about endurance. Same with misbah, his block and hit strategy does wonders in tests, horrible to implement in odi.

Saud does not have those problems. He has good Technique and can accelerate. He had no problem accelerating. Just his running was pkkr which is a problem rizwan also faces.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

saud is techincally so sound, his abilities of rotating the strike is awesome he is a complete package for middle order.

 

[mominsaigol]

Rizwan has opened in T20Is. He is opener or one down for his List A team KPK. Once set, he usually improves his SR too. That's why part of me thinks he will be better suited to open in ODIs than in T20s.

Rizwan can't stay long, it's why he got removed from test and I forgot who said it, but after that test series, a former cricketer made comments about rizwan verbatim saying that this is what happenez when you play t20 cricketers in test. They can't stay long.

 

[mominsaigol]

saud is techincally so sound, his abilities of rotating the strike is awesome he is a complete package for middle order.

You and I are the only ones who agree about saud . Our pakistani fans logic is to replace saud for Chacha or Tayyab based of nothing more then the fact that they can hit as if their the next Butler or eoin morgan.

Chacha plays slower then saud .

 

[Major]

Im pretty sure, they probably forgot to add Saud in the odi squad for the asia cup. Like the captain though he was making his debut the other day.

It seems as if his name didnt came up during discussion and everyone forgot he even existed.

Unfair to Tayyab that was in the squad and now moved to reserve. Shatters a person mentally.

 

[mominsaigol]

I feel like this thread is mainly debating accumulators vs Strikers so I'll try to address.

A) Players like Kholi, Smith, root, are accumulators, they build up their scores over time. India, Australia, etc win games because of accumulators not shahid afridi one hit wonders.

B) The reason why England is succeaful isn't because they bash like idiots. England plays with a different mindset. Other teams always think about 280 to 300 scores whereas England genuinely believes 500 is achievable one day, hence they play with the mindset of outbatting their opposition.

But England doesn't mindlessly bash, they find gaps, dispatch bad balls etc but the reason their strike rates are over 100 is because unlike kholi who's predictable (Yes kholi is good) but kholi plays traditional shots, finds gaps etc

England players do not play for personal milestones, they always look to convert their singles into doubles and they also play innovative such as playing unorthodox shots to disrupt line and length for the bowler as unorthodox shots can turn good line and length balls and turn them into boundaries, something no other team in the world can do as they do not have the 450 mindset, nor do they try anything innovative just play traditionally and sometimes even slow down for personal milestones. However this doesn't mean that England isn't accumulating. Their just doing it better then any other team in the world.

C) Chacha and Haris or tayyab are not gonna play faster then saud. Chacha never plays fast, he's the type of guy to usually have scores of 16 runs of 25 balls and then he'll hit a couple of boundaries and get out, so his scorecard will look something like 25 runs of 27 which is the story of his life.

Tayyab on the other hand smacked an India A side which were all 19 to 22 and barely had any experience and aren't even front line replacements for India in the future, considering their young 20-23 year old players like ishan or Gill are already in the team. Tayyab was a tailender against quality spin, and he's yet to make an impact in any international format.

Haris is raw, too raw infact since he only performs here and their.

D) The only thing I agree with is that unlike India or Australia who's accumulators can normally increase the tempo after settling in, no one in Pakistan except fakhar can do so. Imam, Babar always progress on their merry way. As for saud bhai aus ko odi kuch matches khelnei to do before judging if he can accelerate or not considering he automatically hit 2 boundaries upon entering and was already looking more at ease then rizwan and Babar

 

[Farabi]

I feel like this thread is mainly debating accumulators vs Strikers so I'll try to address.

A) Players like Kholi, Smith, root, are accumulators, they build up their scores over time. India, Australia, etc win games because of accumulators not shahid afridi one hit wonders.

B) The reason why England is succeaful isn't because they bash like idiots. England plays with a different mindset. Other teams always think about 280 to 300 scores whereas England genuinely believes 500 is achievable one day, hence they play with the mindset of outbatting their opposition.

But England doesn't mindlessly bash, they find gaps, dispatch bad balls etc but the reason their strike rates are over 100 is because unlike kholi who's predictable (Yes kholi is good) but kholi plays traditional shots, finds gaps etc

England players do not play for personal milestones, they always look to convert their singles into doubles and they also play innovative such as playing unorthodox shots to disrupt line and length for the bowler as unorthodox shots can turn good line and length balls and turn them into boundaries, something no other team in the world can do as they do not have the 450 mindset, nor do they try anything innovative just play traditionally and sometimes even slow down for personal milestones. However this doesn't mean that England isn't accumulating. Their just doing it better then any other team in the world.

C) Chacha and Haris or tayyab are not gonna play faster then saud. Chacha never plays fast, he's the type of guy to usually have scores of 16 runs of 25 balls and then he'll hit a couple of boundaries and get out, so his scorecard will look something like 25 runs of 27 which is the story of his life.

Tayyab on the other hand smacked an India A side which were all 19 to 22 and barely had any experience and aren't even front line replacements for India in the future, considering their young 20-23 year old players like ishan or Gill are already in the team. Tayyab was a tailender against quality spin, and he's yet to make an impact in any international format.

Haris is raw, too raw infact since he only performs here and their.

D) The only thing I agree with is that unlike India or Australia who's accumulators can normally increase the tempo after settling in, no one in Pakistan except fakhar can do so. Imam, Babar always progress on their merry way. As for saud bhai aus ko odi kuch matches khelnei to do before judging if he can accelerate or not considering he automatically hit 2 boundaries upon entering and was already looking more at ease then rizwan and Babar

This is a solid post.
The biggest confusion here is the naive differentiation between “accumulators” and “aggressors” as if the two are not the same. As you rightly point out, the distinction is in how well some teams/batters accumulate runs. And that great accumulation is ultimately built on a great foundational technique and strike rotation, which Haris, Cachu struggle with.
The one point you didn’t talk about was the ongoing obsession on here with more aggressors in the line up when the reality is that Pak batting units collapses anytime they are up against a quality bowling side and one of the top 3 doesn’t click.

 

[mominsaigol]

Im pretty sure, they probably forgot to add Saud in the odi squad for the asia cup. Like the captain though he was making his debut the other day.

It seems as if his name didnt came up during discussion and everyone forgot he even existed.

Unfair to Tayyab that was in the squad and now moved to reserve. Shatters a person mentally.

How can management just forget about saud when he's been the most prolific run scorer in test? And to the point that babar though saud was making a debut despite already having one half century in odi? . If this is true, which judging from babar's response it is, then Wah, what management we have.

As for Tayyab Tahir, Yes it's unfair to reserve a player when he didn't even get a chance.

 

[MenInG]

And Saud out of the Nepal game! These are the types of games you need him to get his practice in

 

[Adi_62945]

Ifti chacha instead of saud shakeel is a joke selection. Iftikhar is not a pinch hitter nor a proper batsmen. He is just a fake copy of misbah. The only batsmen who can win matches on his own is fakhar zaman

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Saud Shakeel has been given a good opportunity but I don't think he will be prioritized over Iftikhar.

 

[mominsaigol]

Saud Shakeel has been given a good opportunity but I don't think he will be prioritized over Iftikhar.

Chacha is the worst player I've seen since asif Ali honestly. Just a bits and pieces bowler and a batsmen that babar sends after usama mir showing that even babar doesn't think he's useful anywhere besides the final 5 overs. Which even their he ain't.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I don't understand why the management of Pakistan cricket is hesitant to make any changes. If Saud is played against Nepal it could boost his confidence and provide solid support to the middle order for upcoming matches in Asia Cup.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Chacha is the worst player I've seen since asif Ali honestly. Just a bits and pieces bowler and a batsmen that babar sends after usama mir showing that even babar doesn't think he's useful anywhere besides the final 5 overs. Which even their he ain't.

Iftikhar could be a better selection in t20 games but not in ODIs for sure.

 

[mominsaigol]

Iftikhar could be a better selection in t20 games but not in ODIs for sure.

For t20, Pakistan needs to invest in the future, not in a misbah copycat, ifti is so much like misbah that I can't stand him, both players were old and clearly playing significantly ahead of their career (No age discrimination or anything, but bhai 40 should be Peak, and I'm 110% Sure ifti is a much of a 32 year old as rashid khan is 24 ).

We need to focus on saim ayub, Haris, and new players that will make it eventually. Proper t20 style batsmen. He's both saim and haris are raw and I wouldn't have them atm, but their so young especially saim and have the ability to learn and just be fearless in general.

We don't need a guy who Blocks and blocks and hits expecting the bowler to bowl him halwa deliveries.

The misbah era was exactly like this, Ahmed shezad a guy who Block and block and hits to the fielder until maybe a bowler bowls him a juicy delivery he can hit and then he gets out, same with nasir jamshed, or Hafeez (When he opened), Asad Shafiq, etc.

Only players who during thay era who weren't in this mould were sohaib Maqsood, Azhar Ali, umar akmal, and Fawad Alam, But umar akmal genuinely has the worst game awareness o have ever seem in my life, Azhar was forced to accelerate due to pressure from media on being a misbah copycat and even then you could tell he just wasn't as good in odi due to not playing his natural test game of scoring 100 of 3rd deliveries, Fawad alam never had the ability to survive against Australia, or England Level bowling and sohaib maqsood underachieved likely due to management pressure of wanting him to be the next inzimam rather then be his own thing.

 

[Ali T]

Today is Saud Shakeel's birthday!

Born: September 5, 1995 (age 28 years), Karachi, Pakistan


Will he get the perfect gift from the PCB by making the cut for the world cup?
The squad is expected to be announced today...

 

[Marooned]

I feel like this thread is mainly debating accumulators vs Strikers so I'll try to address.

A) Players like Kholi, Smith, root, are accumulators, they build up their scores over time. India, Australia, etc win games because of accumulators not shahid afridi one hit wonders.

B) The reason why England is succeaful isn't because they bash like idiots. England plays with a different mindset. Other teams always think about 280 to 300 scores whereas England genuinely believes 500 is achievable one day, hence they play with the mindset of outbatting their opposition.

But England doesn't mindlessly bash, they find gaps, dispatch bad balls etc but the reason their strike rates are over 100 is because unlike kholi who's predictable (Yes kholi is good) but kholi plays traditional shots, finds gaps etc

England players do not play for personal milestones, they always look to convert their singles into doubles and they also play innovative such as playing unorthodox shots to disrupt line and length for the bowler as unorthodox shots can turn good line and length balls and turn them into boundaries, something no other team in the world can do as they do not have the 450 mindset, nor do they try anything innovative just play traditionally and sometimes even slow down for personal milestones. However this doesn't mean that England isn't accumulating. Their just doing it better then any other team in the world.

C) Chacha and Haris or tayyab are not gonna play faster then saud. Chacha never plays fast, he's the type of guy to usually have scores of 16 runs of 25 balls and then he'll hit a couple of boundaries and get out, so his scorecard will look something like 25 runs of 27 which is the story of his life.

Tayyab on the other hand smacked an India A side which were all 19 to 22 and barely had any experience and aren't even front line replacements for India in the future, considering their young 20-23 year old players like ishan or Gill are already in the team. Tayyab was a tailender against quality spin, and he's yet to make an impact in any international format.

Haris is raw, too raw infact since he only performs here and their.

D) The only thing I agree with is that unlike India or Australia who's accumulators can normally increase the tempo after settling in, no one in Pakistan except fakhar can do so. Imam, Babar always progress on their merry way. As for saud bhai aus ko odi kuch matches khelnei to do before judging if he can accelerate or not considering he automatically hit 2 boundaries upon entering and was already looking more at ease then rizwan and Babar

Chacha is a superior white ball player than Saud. This is almost beyond debate.

Saud List A- 44 avg, 84 sr. 4/20 100s and 50s
Chacha- 50 avg, 92 sr. 10/22 100s and 50s


Stats are not everything but even on eye test Saud is very much a classic test player. Solid defense, compact and doesn't free his arms. Even in his only 50 in odis, you could just see we debuted a player in the wrong format.

Whatever evidence we have, Chacha has a much stronger game for odis and on his day can surprise everyone. Alas, he is inconsistent though.

 

[mominsaigol]

Chacha is a superior white ball player than Saud. This is almost beyond debate.

Saud List A- 44 avg, 84 sr. 4/20 100s and 50s
Chacha- 50 avg, 92 sr. 10/22 100s and 50s


Stats are not everything but even on eye test Saud is very much a classic test player. Solid defense, compact and doesn't free his arms. Even in his only 50 in odis, you could just see we debuted a player in the wrong format.

Whatever evidence we have, Chacha has a much stronger game for odis and on his day can surprise everyone. Alas, he is inconsistent though.

I made this post a while ago, since then I changed my mind and acknowledged chacha to be our perfect no 6.

My problem is that we have tayyab, Abdullah, haris and saud in the squad and Babar didn't try any 4 of them and had them as water boys,

He should have tried them and played them at no 4 just to see if any surprises would happen because our middle order is a bit fragile. Agha is the weak link.

 

[Marooned]

I made this post a while ago, since then I changed my mind and acknowledged chacha to be our perfect no 6.

My problem is that we have tayyab, Abdullah, haris and saud in the squad and Babar didn't try any 4 of them and had them as water boys,

He should have tried them and played them at no 4 just to see if any surprises would happen because our middle order is a bit fragile. Agha is the weak link.

We should have given these players a go, I completely agree with that. Infact saud too should have been given a fair chance at 4.