Virat Kohli shoots up to career-high fourth in ICC Test Player Rankings

[jeetu]

India captain Virat Kohli has shot up 10 slots to reach a career-high fourth position in the MRF Tyres ICC Player Rankings for Test Batsmen after producing a man of the match performance in the second Test against England in Visakhapatnam which India won by 246 runs to take a 1-0 lead in the five-match series.

Kohli is currently top-ranked in Twenty20 Internationals and has also held the top position in One-Day Internationals, but has never moved above 10th place in Tests. However, his sublime knocks of 167 and 81 in Visakhapatnam have helped him move up further as he crossed the 800-point mark for the first time, becoming only the 11th India batsman to do so.

For his efforts in Visakhapatnam, Kohli has earned 97 points. The 28-year-old from Delhi, who led his side to victory in the ICC U19 Cricket World Cup 2008 in Kuala Lumpur, now trails second-ranked Joe Root of England by 22 points. Another strong performance in the Mohali Test, which begins on Saturday, 26 November, will mean he will edge closer in his quest to top the batting table.

Middle-order batsman Cheteshwar Pujara has gained one place to reach ninth rank after scoring 119 and one, while the England pair of wicketkeeper-batsman Jonny Bairstow and all-rounder Ben Stokes have also made significant gains. Bairstow has moved up four places to reach 12th position after scoring 53 and 34 not out, while Stokes has moved up five slots to 28th position after scoring 70 and six.

New Zealand’s eight-wicket win over Pakistan in a low-scoring first Test in Christchurch did not result in much upward movement for batsmen. New Zealand’s Bradley-John Watling has gained two places to take 36th place, Henry Nicholls has moved up three slots to reach 79th position and debutant opener Jeet Raval has entered the rankings in 60th position after knocks of 55 and 36 not out.

Another New Zealand player to make a fine entry was pace bowler Colin de Grandhomme, who was named player of the match for taking seven wickets in Christchurch. Grandhomme, who represented Zimbabwe in the ICC U19 Cricket World Cup 2004 in Bangladesh, has entered in 61st position in the MRF Tyres ICC Player Rankings for Test Bowlers.

India fast bowler Mohammad Shami has gained five places to reach a career-high 21st rank and left-arm spinner Ravindra Jadeja has moved up one position to sixth place.

For England, Stuart Broad (up one place) and Moeen Ali (up four places), have achieved fifth and 23rdpositions, respectively.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

India captain Virat Kohli has shot up 10 slots

Wow! Steep rise after a single test.

 

[Ankit007]

Great.. Amazing.... Deserved it

 

[jeetu]

Test Ranking

Pos	Rat	Name
1	897	Steve Smith
2	844	Joe Root
3	838	Kane Williamson
4	822	Virat Kohli
5	809	Hashim Amla
6	790	Younus Khan
7	786	AB de Villiers
8	784	David Warner
9	768	Cheteshwar Pujara
10	760	Alastair Cook
11	756	Ajinkya Rahane
12	747	Jonny Bairstow
13	741	Quinton de Kock
14	730	Misbah-ul-Haq
15	725	Adam Voges
16	721	Azhar Ali
17	716	Angelo Mathews
18	678	Dinesh Chandimal
19	677	Kraigg Brathwaite
20	672	Asad Shafiq
37	565	Mohammad Hafeez
63	420	Sami Aslam
97	304	Shan Masood

 

[jeetu]

ODI Ranking

Pos	Rat	Name
1	861	AB de Villiers
2	848	Virat Kohli
3	786	David Warner
4	779	Quinton de Kock
5	770	Kane Williamson
6	748	Hashim Amla
7	747	Joe Root
8	729	Martin Guptill
9	728	Rohit Sharma
10	721	Francois du Plessis
11	719	Shikhar Dhawan
12	717	Jos Buttler
13	704	MS Dhoni
14	684	Babar Azam
15	682	Ross Taylor
16	676	Steve Smith
17	667	Aaron Finch
18	666	George Bailey
19	650	Mushfiqur Rahim
20	648	Angelo Mathews
27	607	Mohammad Hafeez
28	605	Azhar Ali
37	581	Sarfraz Ahmed
50	541	Ahmed Shehzad
67	493	Shoaib Malik
93	407	Sohaib Maqsood
94	400	Imad Wasim

 

[Belawal2014]

Was only a matter of time..

 

[jeetu]

T20 Ranking

Pos	Rat	Name
1	820	Virat Kohli
2	771	Aaron Finch
3	763	Glenn Maxwell
4	754	Martin Guptill
5	741	Francois du Plessis
6	719	Kane Williamson
7	708	Joe Root
8	705	Alex Hales
9	674	Mohammad Shahzad
10	657	Hamilton Masakadza
11	646	Hashim Amla
12	639	David Warner
13	632	Sabbir Rahman
14	629	Chris Gayle
15	623	Eoin Morgan
16	619	Quinton de Kock
17	612	JP Duminy
18	612	Rohit Sharma
19	607	Tillekeratne Dilshan
20	602	Jos Buttler
22	580	Umar Akmal
32	510	Ahmed Shehzad
35	504	Shoaib Malik
46	479	Mohammad Hafeez
47	478	Sharjeel Khan
55	454	Shahid Afridi
66	405	Babar Azam
75	375	Sarfraz Ahmed
94	324	Khalid Latif

 

[street cricketer]

The quartet leading the pack in Test cricket!

Steve Smith
Joe Root
Kane Williamson
Virat Kohli

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

The quartet leading the pack in Test cricket!

Steve Smith
Joe Root
Kane Williamson
Virat Kohli

he he yeah

At last the fab 4 which people discuss most are at the top together. Qdk & Bairstow might join this list soon!

 

[Buffet]

The quartet leading the pack in Test cricket!

Steve Smith
Joe Root
Kane Williamson
Virat Kohli

I had a chuckle seeing those 4 occupying the top 4.

 

[samplepiece]

Our entire middle order in the top 11. Now only if the openers would get into the top 20, we would definitely have an enviable top 5

 

[jnaveen1980]

For someone who is so good, he should have reached no.1 spot long back. Still a long way to go.

 

[Saurav]

For someone who is so good, he should have reached no.1 spot long back. Still a long way to go.

Wasnt that good in Tests.Will reach there soon now

 

[Mamoon]

These players will occupy the top 4 for years to come. Finally they are in their rightful positions.

The era of Amla, Younis, de Villiers etc. is over, although Cook should be right up there for the next few years, and perhaps Warner as well if ICC bans seam, swing and spin.

 

[Rayyman]

These players will occupy the top 4 for years to come. Finally they are in their rightful positions.

The era of Amla, Younis, de Villiers etc. is over, although Cook should be right up there for the next few years, and perhaps Warner as well if ICC bans seam, swing and spin.

Rahane, Shafiq, Pujara, Chandimal, and Azhar will probably be the other 5 in the top 10.

 

[Mamoon]

Rahane, Shafiq, Pujara, Chandimal, and Azhar will probably be the other 5 in the top 10.

Shafiq is not consistent enough to be in the top 10. You forgot QdK and Bairstow, both comfortably better than him.

Hopefully Babar Azam will find his way into the top 10 as well.

 

[Rayyman]

Shafiq is not consistent enough to be in the top 10. You forgot QdK and Bairstow, both comfortably better than him.

Hopefully Babar Azam will find his way into the top 10 as well.

Imo Shafiq can get up there. Qdk and Bairstow will only if they give up the gloves like Sangakkara did. Keeping takes a toll on the body. Same thing happened with Sarfraz. He was batting like an ATG before, but now is just an average keeper-batsman.

Yeah hopefully Babar Azam gets up there.

 

[Sachin136]

These players will occupy the top 4 for years to come. Finally they are in their rightful positions.

The era of Amla, Younis, de Villiers etc. is over, although Cook should be right up there for the next few years, and perhaps Warner as well if ICC bans seam, swing and spin.

Warner has been in the top 4 for several months already.

 

[Mamoon]

Warner has been in the top 4 for several months already.

Yes, but he will struggle to make the top 10 if Australia stops producing highways like the last 2-3 years and play more in Asia.

 

[Dead Ball]

Kohli's test peak is something i've waited long to see.

I was skeptical about his test career until he hit a brilliant 4th innings ton in Aus.

This is going to be special

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Hopefully he can remain in top 5 for the next 5-6 years. Fully capable of it but the greying beard suggests captaincy burden is already taking a toll even though he fully enjoys the challenge

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Kohli's main problem was his lack of impact in Asia.

Seems like he has solved that.

So he is likely to stay in the top 10 rankings (more like top 5). Great signs for India.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Kohli's main problem was his lack of impact in Asia.

Seems like he has solved that.

So he is likely to stay in the top 10 rankings (more like top 5). Great signs for India.

He's going to take the #1 spot. His game's made for the test format.

 

[Aman]

I've changed my opinion of him in Tests, it's only a matter of time before he rises to number 1.

Easily the most talented of the 4, and along with Root the only two from their generation who are capable of becoming ATG's.

 

[Buffet]

I've changed my opinion of him in Tests, it's only a matter of time before he rises to number 1.

Easily the most talented of the 4, and along with Root the only two from their generation who are capable of becoming ATG's.

I think you are underrating kane. He is a top class batsman and few ups/downs happens with all batsmen.

 

[Aman]

I think you are underrating kane. He is a top class batsman and few ups/downs happens with all batsmen.

I've seen enough of his career to know he isn't ATG standard.

Nothing against him or Smith, just don't think they're good enough to be mentioned in the same league as the games greatest.

Both will definitely finish as NZ/Aus greats and will be among the top batsmen of this era.

 

[rollingstoned]

I've seen enough of his career to know he isn't ATG standard.

Nothing against him or Smith, just don't think they're good enough to be mentioned in the same league as the games greatest.

Both will definitely finish as NZ/Aus greats and will be among the top batsmen of this era.

It's less a question of talent and more a question of personality and it is reflected in the way he captains too. He hasn't been the same since Bmac retired, of the 4 i feel he's the most correct technically.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I've seen enough of his career to know he isn't ATG standard.

Nothing against him or Smith, just don't think they're good enough to be mentioned in the same league as the games greatest.

Both will definitely finish as NZ/Aus greats and will be among the top batsmen of this era.

Very harsh on Kane.

Its an evolving process. If Kane figures out how to play proper spin (it's not like he is clueless now), I don't see any reason why he can't atleast aim for the ATG tag.

He is just 26 now.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

He's going to take the #1 spot. His game's made for the test format.

That sounds great.

May I know why you feel that way about Kohli in tests? And why you feel in ODIs, he is number 2 as you mentioned the other day?

 

[Aman]

Very harsh on Kane.

Its an evolving process. If Kane figures out how to play proper spin (it's not like he is clueless now), I don't see any reason why he can't atleast aim for the ATG tag.

He is just 26 now.

How am I being harsh? You're either good enough to be an ATG or you're not.

Kane and Smith simply don't fall into that category for me. Kohli and Root are just on another level to those two, and have been marked for greatness from a young age.

They look good, score consistently and have a big appetite for runs. Smith scores consistently and does score big, I just don't rate him amongst the best to play the game, and think he will struggle big time once his hand eye deteriorates.

Kane and Smith were a lot slower to make their mark at the international level, which reflects they were the least naturally talented of the 4. They've gotten to the top through handwork.

 

[Aman]

It's less a question of talent and more a question of personality and it is reflected in the way he captains too. He hasn't been the same since Bmac retired, of the 4 i feel he's the most correct technically.

Everyone talks about his technique, but his numbers in England, SA and India are horrible. Kane has scored a lot of soft runs too, when you break down his record, it isn't very impressive at all. A big reason why he has a good average is his record against weaker sides. Against good sides, he fails 80-90% of the time. Frankly, I'd trade him for Rahane in a heartbeat.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

How am I being harsh? You're either good enough to be an ATG or you're not.

Kane and Smith simply don't fall into that category for me. Kohli and Root are just on another level to those two, and have been marked for greatness at a young age.

They look good, score consistently and have a appetite for runs. Smith scores consistently and does score big, I just don't rate him amongst the best to play the game, and think he will struggle big time once his hand eye deteriorates.

Kane and Smith were a lot slower to make their mark at the international level, which reflects they were the least talented of the 4.

Every ATG is not the same.

Some go crazy in 20s and then drop offf in 30s.

Some go steady in 20s and take a whole new turn in 30s (Sanga).

Kallis and Ponting averaged 40s in 90s and then took off big time later on.

Few years back, Kohli too didn't look like ATG material in tests. Wouldn't you agree?

Kane may not be the most flamboyant but he bats like Roger Federer plays tennis (talking about style). Relaxed...controlled....in total cruise mode. Yes, he may have some things to work on but I think we need to give him time. He has he soundest technique for most part and looks in a good space.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Everyone talks about his technique, but his numbers in England, SA and India are horrible. Kane has scored a lot of soft runs too, when you break down his record, it isn't very impressive at all. A big reason why he has a good average is his record against weaker sides. Against good sides, he fails 80-90% of the time. Frankly, I'd trade him for Rahane in a heartbeat.

Don't know about that. You are probably right but I would expect him to correct those records.

Rahane is a true gun but he too has issues like Kane against spin. I would keep my hopes alive for both.

 

[rollingstoned]

Everyone talks about his technique, but his numbers in England, SA and India are horrible. Kane has scored a lot of soft runs too, when you break down his record, it isn't very impressive at all. A big reason why he has a good average is his record against weaker sides. Against good sides, he fails 80-90% of the time. Frankly, I'd trade him for Rahane in a heartbeat.

Well he seems to get out in a soft manner quite often after getting set and that has hurt his average a bit. He was okay in India ,didnt exactly disgrace himself.

 

[Speedster1]

Test Ranking

Pos	Rat	Name
1	897	Steve Smith
2	844	Joe Root
3	838	Kane Williamson
4	822	Virat Kohli
5	809	Hashim Amla
6	790	Younus Khan
7	786	AB de Villiers
8	784	David Warner
9	768	Cheteshwar Pujara
10	760	Alastair Cook
11	756	Ajinkya Rahane
12	747	Jonny Bairstow
13	741	Quinton de Kock
14	730	Misbah-ul-Haq
15	725	Adam Voges
16	721	Azhar Ali
17	716	Angelo Mathews
18	678	Dinesh Chandimal
19	677	Kraigg Brathwaite
20	672	Asad Shafiq
37	565	Mohammad Hafeez
63	420	Sami Aslam
97	304	Shan Masood

Interestingly, Pakistan have the most number of batsman from a single country in the top 20 (4). Well done now make it count!

 

[Hasan123]

In there rightful positions, should be in these positions for a long time to come.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

That sounds great.

May I know why you feel that way about Kohli in tests? And why you feel in ODIs, he is number 2 as you mentioned the other day?

Here's why: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...atsmen-than-Virat-Kohli&p=8885094#post8885094

AB is a more complete player in ODIs. Can pretty much do anything his team asks of him. And his record speaks for itself. Tests present a different challenge in which Kohli has the edge.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes, but he will struggle to make the top 10 if Australia stops producing highways like the last 2-3 years and play more in Asia.

Hmm, the same goes for Kohli. At least based on his past performances, will go down as soon as he encounters swing or seam.

For future, you can say the same for Warner or anyone that they'll improve against seam/swing. Nobody can guarantee anything.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Here's why: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...atsmen-than-Virat-Kohli&p=8885094#post8885094

AB is a more complete player in ODIs. Can pretty much do anything his team asks of him. And his record speaks for itself. Tests present a different challenge in which Kohli has the edge.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[Indiafan]

Hmm, the same goes for Kohli. At least based on his past performances, will go down as soon as he encounters swing or seam.

For future, you can say the same for Warner or anyone that they'll improve against seam/swing. Nobody can guarantee anything.

Yet he was pretty comfortable against Amir on a pitch where he was swinging/seamng miles in the T20 series and hit and blocked on the ground

 

[Ab Fan]

The young fab four in the top 4..

Great..!!!

 

[Ab Fan]

Everyone talks about his technique, but his numbers in England, SA and India are horrible. Kane has scored a lot of soft runs too, when you break down his record, it isn't very impressive at all. A big reason why he has a good average is his record against weaker sides. Against good sides, he fails 80-90% of the time. Frankly, I'd trade him for Rahane in a heartbeat.

I guess you are putting things in a little wrong way.

His numbers are lesser impressive in tougher conditions isn't because he is a weak bowling bully or only piles runs on easier conditions.

The reason behind it IMO is that in tougher conditions most of the kiwi batsmen struggle and he has to do a lot more on his own to carry the kiwi batting line up in places like Eng, SA and India where most of the kiwis batsmen fails.

He has done well vs Australia where pitches were flat and guys like Taylor supported him nicely.

Its hard to carry a team on your own especially on tough pitches where other players of his own team are walking wicket.

 

[Aman]

I guess you are putting things in a little wrong way.

His numbers are lesser impressive in tougher conditions isn't because he is a weak bowling bully or only piles runs on easier conditions.

The reason behind it IMO is that in tougher conditions most of the kiwi batsmen struggle and he has to do a lot more on his own to carry the kiwi batting line up in places like Eng, SA and India where most of the kiwis batsmen fails.

He has done well vs Australia where pitches were flat and guys like Taylor supported him nicely.

Its hard to carry a team on your own especially on tough pitches where other players of his own team are walking wicket.

An ATG wouldn't use the excuse of a weak team for his own failures.

I wish he was as good as PPers think he is, Kane has only disappointed time and time again. Those runs in Australia were on roads where all you need to is bat sensibly to score a 100. The first challenge that came (Punk ball Test), he failed.


Sachin still did well despite having an extremely weak team and Lara was the same.

 

[Aman]

I'm surprised so many people are defending Kane...

Smith is a tougher call considering how he has proven himself around the world and is the most accomplished of the four.

 

[Ab Fan]

An ATG wouldn't use the excuse of a weak team for his own failures.

Which failures??

He avgs 50 and has performed everywhere in the world in test cricket.

The point I was making is that its hard to do so carrying a weaker team on your own.

His knock of 70 odd in SA was a brilliant one. Had he got support from other end he would have transformed it into a daddy hundred.

His captaincy is an issue and has affected his batting but the only series he underperformed was the recent India series where he was injured in one of the games and anyways these phases are just part of the game which will come in most players phase and that includes the likes of Kohli and Root too.Unless his game regresses which hasn't happened unlike say Boult, his batting capabilities can't be questioned.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I'm surprised so many people are defending Kane...

Smith is a tougher call considering how he has proven himself around the world and is the most accomplished of the four.

I'd say Smith>Root>KW=Kohli

 

[Aman]

Which failures??

He avgs 50 and has performed everywhere in the world in test cricket.

The point I was making is that its hard to do so carrying a weaker team on your own.

His knock of 70 odd in SA was a brilliant one. Had he got support from other end he would have transformed it into a daddy hundred.

His captaincy is an issue and has affected his batting but the only series he underperformed was the recent India series where he was injured in one of the games and anyways these phases are just part of the game which will come in most players phase and that includes the likes of Kohli and Root too.Unless his game regresses which hasn't happened unlike say Boult, his batting capabilities can't be questioned.

There are plenty of holes which are being ignored...

 

[Aman]

I'd say Smith>Root>KW=Kohli

Nah Kohli has surpassed them all, he has finally gotten serious about Tests. It was always a question of whether he'd get it together to overtake them, honestly, the others aren't close to him. His temperament is excellent, his hunger to win matches and score runs is extraordinary and then there's his fitness.. he could bat for days if he wanted.

 

[Aman]

^To add to that, he is the only one of the 4 which you think to yourself "Wow, this guy is batting genius" whenever you see him bat.

A special cricketer, who India are very fortunate to have.

 

[Ab Fan]

There are plenty of holes which are being ignored...

Has got centuries everywhere except SA if I have a clear look at it.

The numbers are little skewed due to his failures in initial series.

His 192 in UAE is better than anything smith/ Root played in Asia as of now.

 

[Aman]

Has got centuries everywhere if I have a clear look at it.

The numbers are little skewed due to his failures in initial series.

His 192 in UAE is better than anything smith/ Root played in Asia as of now.

The wicket was flat and I wouldn't really count it as neither side was in the condition to play with Hughes passing.

It wasn't even the best innings of the match, McCullum's innings was far better and was the innings that got us into a strong position.

 

[street cricketer]

I don't know why [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] underrates KW so much. He did have a mediocre series in India, but tbf to him, the wickets were turners and supported spin much more than what the wickets in the Ind-Eng series have done. Last pitch was just a slow flattish one and Root looked uncomfortable against Ashwin on day 2 while he was all at sea against him on day 5. In my opinion, Root has a bit more to prove in asia than Kane. Remember Kane making a debut ton in India and also played a good innings in the UAE which helped NZ square the series. Root did score runs in India in his debut at Nagpur and at Rajkot this series, but both were extremely flat. He made runs in the UAE but ultimately they couldn't impact the series against Pakistan.

 

[Aman]

I don't know why [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] underrates KW so much. He did have a mediocre series in India, but tbf to him, the wickets were turners and supported spin much more than what the wickets in the Ind-Eng series have done. Last pitch was just a slow flattish one and Root looked uncomfortable against Ashwin on day 2 while he was all at sea against him on day 5. In my opinion, Root has a bit more to prove in asia than Kane. Remember Kane making a debut ton in India and also played a good innings in the UAE which helped NZ square the series. Root did score runs in India in his debut at Nagpur and at Rajkot this series, but both were extremely flat. He made runs in the UAE but ultimately they couldn't impact the series against Pakistan.

How am I underrating him? Those stats should justify my reasoning in not rating him that high.. if a less likable cricketer had those stats, he would have been torn to shreds.. people are too kind to Kane because of his easy going personality. He's a good batsmen and a guaranteed NZ ATG, but he will never be an all time great of the game and will likely finish his career with an average under 50.

 

[Chrish]

I still haven't gotten over Williamson's last dismissal

Blame it on Raval

 

[Buffet]

How am I underrating him? Those stats should justify my reasoning in not rating him that high.. if a less likable cricketer had those stats, he would have been torn to shreds.. people are too kind to Kane because of his easy going personality. He's a good batsmen and a guaranteed NZ ATG, but he will never be an all time great of the game and will likely finish his career with an average under 50.

Kane best phase should be coming if we go by how most batsmen develop with age.

 

[SandyB]

Nah Kohli has surpassed them all, he has finally gotten serious about Tests. It was always a question of whether he'd get it together to overtake them, honestly, the others aren't close to him. His temperament is excellent, his hunger to win matches and score runs is extraordinary and then there's his fitness.. he could bat for days if he wanted.

That is taking it too far I think. I do believe that Kohli beats the other 3 on sheer determination and resolve and that he's more likely to work out is shortcomings much better than the other three . But on sheer skill he's a bit behind Smith and Kane. He could overtake them maybe, but the results aren't conclusive right now .

 

[Rayyman]

Nah Kohli has surpassed them all, he has finally gotten serious about Tests. It was always a question of whether he'd get it together to overtake them, honestly, the others aren't close to him. His temperament is excellent, his hunger to win matches and score runs is extraordinary and then there's his fitness.. he could bat for days if he wanted.

Agreed. Kohli is the best. Kohli and Smith generally get out to beauties, while Root and Williamson play loose shots.

 

[SandyB]

One thing I want to point out is that by recent developments , going forward both Smith & Kane will be under a bit more external pressure as they are practically carrying their batting line-ups. Compare that to Root or Kohli whe play alongside more good/competent batsmen . So they have a bit more leeway . If AUS continue loosing or NZ batsmen don't come up well , that may put more pressure on the game of Smith and Kane .Which could prevent them from fully expressing their talent and having to tone it down for safety .

 

[Rayyman]

One thing I want to point out is that by recent developments , going forward both Smith & Kane will be under a bit more external pressure as they are practically carrying their batting line-ups. Compare that to Root or Kohli whe play alongside more good/competent batsmen . So they have a bit more leeway . If AUS continue loosing or NZ batsmen don't come up well , that may put more pressure on the game of Smith and Kane .Which could prevent them from fully expressing their talent and having to tone it down for safety .

So you're saying that instead of turning into Ponting and Lara, they could end up as Misbah and Chanderpaul. Maybe. I could see that happening.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

So you're saying that instead of turning into Ponting and Lara, they could end up as Misbah and Chanderpaul. Maybe. I could see that happening.

No, Sachin and Lara carried poor batting teams during 90's on their own. So, I don't see why would a player not express his full talent because of representing poor batting sides. In fact they would be more highlighted more.

 

[SandyB]

No, Sachin and Lara carried poor batting teams during 90's on their own. So, I don't see why would a player not express his full talent because of representing poor batting sides. In fact they would be more highlighted more.

But they were Sachin & Lara ! .. That is my point as well.I don't see these bats having the same level of talent where they can express their full potential even while carrying their weak teams .

You have that situation with India's ODI team now . Kohli pretty much carry's the team. He never had to change his game . This IS his game. He has always played the risk free- calculated cricket with percentage shots in between . But Sachin / Lara were more the free flowing types. Their game was different from Kohli's or even the rest of the Fab 4 now.. Sachin , Lara all made a point to try and score off the opposition's main bowlers ( see Sachin vs McGrath/Shoaib , Lara Vs Warne ). They HAD to take them on !! . Their Talent + Ego would never let them just stand back from that challenge. But Kohli on the other hand rarely does that .. He plays risk free and negotiates the best bowlers ( see Asia cup 2016 Vs Amir) and only attacks at the moment when he has the game in his control / when the situation become Do or Die.
Of course that ,makes him much less likely to fail (in chases especially) than Lara or Sachin would have .
But I think Kohli would very much change his game to suit a weak team to maximize the results if needed. So would the Smith or Kane . Since they are captains as well .
Lara could do what he wanted because WI were bad back then & nobody had the balls to tell him to play for the team ..

 

[SandyB]

So you're saying that instead of turning into Ponting and Lara, they could end up as Misbah and Chanderpaul. Maybe. I could see that happening.

Dunno about Chanderpaul, but I think Misbah would have been a different batsmen had he had a stable captain in PAK to play under. He had to stem collapses a lot of time, so would have curbed his natural instincts .

The best example is how Dhoni changed his batting ! Pre-2007 MSD was a beast of a batsman in ODI compared to what he did post 2007 . I believe if he had continued at no 4 , he could have become what Kohli pretty much is now ( Kohli is technically way better though ) . And he could have claimed the undisputed GOAT in ODIs tag compared to being amongst the top 5 as of now. More opportunities for centuries and big scores. Getting to bat with better batsmen instead of the lower order, more overs to face etc etc .

 

[Indiafan]

Didn't want to open a new thread. Here's Sky sports analysis of how Kohli changed his technique to counter the weakness outside off stump

[utube]oL9HaKufsNA[/utube]

Yeah I am aware playing IN England is different but the very fact that he worked on his weakness shows something

 

[www787]

Didn't want to open a new thread. Here's Sky sports analysis of how Kohli changed his technique to counter the weakness outside off stump

[utube]oL9HaKufsNA[/utube]

Yeah I am aware playing IN England is different but the very fact that he worked on his weakness shows something

many have and many will adopt..So what does it show? what is so unique about him adopting or changing? or does it matter because he is Virat Kholi?

 

[Napa]

many have and many will adopt..So what does it show? what is so unique about him adopting or changing? or does it matter because he is Virat Kholi?

The only way Kohli can be different in adapting to counter his weakness is if he produces results. The record is that he has adapted successfully.

 

[Aman]

Kane Williamson is the next Ian Bell.

His technique is constantly praised but he fails more often than not in difficult conditions or against good sides.

He was out twice today within the space of 12 runs and was talked up like he was a batting genius )

Rahane should be taking his spot in the big 4, he is easily far more accomplished than Kane and would have a better record if he played Zim, Bangladesh and WI as often as we do.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Kane Williamson is the next Ian Bell.

His technique is constantly praised but he fails more often than not in difficult conditions or against good sides.

He was out twice today within the space of 12 runs and was talked up like he was a batting genius )

Rahane should be taking his spot in the big 4, he is easily far more accomplished than Kane and would have a better record if he played Zim, Bangladesh and WI as often as we do.

Pitches are really spicy for this series hence there would be inconsistency, just scored a 66 off 72 balls to win you a test match few days back

 

[Aman]

Pitches are really spicy for this series hence there would be inconsistency, just scored a 66 off 72 balls to win you a test match few days back

On a flat wicket, don't be surprised to see Kane score some soft runs once the wicket has flattened up to pad his stats.

 

[Sidilicious]

On a flat wicket, don't be surprised to see Kane score some soft runs once the wicket has flattened up to pad his stats.

First Ashwin and now Kane. You've truly gone rogue.

Of all the upcoming 4, Kane is going to be the unluckiest one, like his dismissal today. Because he will be part of a weaker team, his runs will not always convert to wins. So his runs will be underrated. He will end up with a few hundreds in losing causes. But hpthat doesn't mean he is not going to be an ATG. Even if he fails in India that would not be enough to remove the ATG tag. Otherwise Ponting wouldn't have been one. (Not saying he is an ATG yet).

 

[Aman]

First Ashwin and now Kane. You've truly gone rogue.

Of all the upcoming 4, Kane is going to be the unluckiest one, like his dismissal today. Because he will be part of a weaker team, his runs will not always convert to wins. So his runs will be underrated. He will end up with a few hundreds in losing causes. But hpthat doesn't mean he is not going to be an ATG. Even if he fails in India that would not be enough to remove the ATG tag. Otherwise Ponting wouldn't have been one. (Not saying he is an ATG yet).

Kane has failed in SA, India and England.

3 of the big 4 away tours.

He has consistently been failing on our green wickets too (first innings).

 

[Aman]

Kane has failed in SA, India and England.

3 of the big 4 away tours.

He has consistently been failing on our green wickets too (first innings).

Against good bowling sides*

 

[Indiafan]

many have and many will adopt..So what does it show? what is so unique about him adopting or changing? or does it matter because he is Virat Kholi?

Because many keep on repeating about his England failure completely ignoring that he has now worked on the deficiency. They claim he will fail again in swinging conditions as if he has done nothing to change that

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Kane has failed in SA, India and England.

3 of the big 4 away tours.

He has consistently been failing on our green wickets too (first innings).

In ENG - 132, 27, 0 and 6
In SA - 77, 5 and 2*
In IND - 75, 25, 8 and 27

Partial success. Clicked in first test/s and flopped later.

 

[Aman]

In ENG - 132, 27, 0 and 6
In SA - 77, 5 and 2*
In IND - 75, 25, 8 and 27

Partial success. Clicked in first test/s and flopped later.

He had 2 lives in that 75 before being comprehensively bowled.

Pretty certain he's the next Ian Bell, a good looking batsmen who isn't quite consistent or good enough to be an all time great.

 

[cric_fanatic]

many have and many will adopt..So what does it show? what is so unique about him adopting or changing? or does it matter because he is Virat Kholi?

The thread is about Kohli's surge in rankings. I'm sure great players adapt, which is exactly the point. He has adapted and taken his game to another level since that England tour. Rankings reflect that, so does the truckloads of runs. Next England tour might well be way different.

 

[Phantom Menace]

Pretty sure Aman just can't deal with everyone in New Zealand hyping Kane like he is the second coming of Bradman only to go on to forums that aren't New Zealand based to find everyone else rating him as a future ATG or near future ATG.

Its clearly getting to him but the legend of the player has big influence on if someone is ATG or not and Kane has this in his favour.

Remember Kane is NZ's second best batsman already and will certainly become best ever for his country which is important by itself. He was viewed as a prodigy from the age of 12 and he scored a century on debut in India of all places. In the modern era of 10 test teams he is the youngest by far to score centuries against all teams as well as taking least number of tests and least number of years. He has scored centuries against attacks of Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Johnson, Starc, Hazlewood also Broad and Anderson, Herath in Sri Lanka and Yasir in UAE. He has a sparkling technique that is classical and easy on the eye and for a weak to middling team has scored centuries that have saved games, won games, set up games and that have been the only major contribution to the batting card.

All this and he is only 26. If he averages 50+ in tests and high 40s in ODI's by the end of his career he will definitely go down as ATG on similar level to Miandad.

How can you rate his record in Sri Lanka against him when he averages over 40 in just 2 matches with an influential century?

Comparing him to Ian Bell is ludicrous. I mean Ian Bell??! Seriously! He barely averages 40. And that is WITH having a reputation for scoring soft runs. Kane has already scored more hundreds at away/neutral venues than Ian Bell at 10 runs higher average.

 

[Phantom Menace]

And to get thread back on track, very good to see Kohli kicking in to gear in tests. He is a lot of fun to watch. Already a bonafide ATG in one day internationals for me.

 

[Aman]

Pretty sure Aman just can't deal with everyone in New Zealand hyping Kane like he is the second coming of Bradman only to go on to forums that aren't New Zealand based to find everyone else rating him as a future ATG or near future ATG.

Its clearly getting to him but the legend of the player has big influence on if someone is ATG or not and Kane has this in his favour.

Remember Kane is NZ's second best batsman already and will certainly become best ever for his country which is important by itself. He was viewed as a prodigy from the age of 12 and he scored a century on debut in India of all places. In the modern era of 10 test teams he is the youngest by far to score centuries against all teams as well as taking least number of tests and least number of years. He has scored centuries against attacks of Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Johnson, Starc, Hazlewood also Broad and Anderson, Herath in Sri Lanka and Yasir in UAE. He has a sparkling technique that is classical and easy on the eye and for a weak to middling team has scored centuries that have saved games, won games, set up games and that have been the only major contribution to the batting card.

All this and he is only 26. If he averages 50+ in tests and high 40s in ODI's by the end of his career he will definitely go down as ATG on similar level to Miandad.

How can you rate his record in Sri Lanka against him when he averages over 40 in just 2 matches with an influential century?

Comparing him to Ian Bell is ludicrous. I mean Ian Bell??! Seriously! He barely averages 40. And that is WITH having a reputation for scoring soft runs. Kane has already scored more hundreds at away/neutral venues than Ian Bell at 10 runs higher average.

I would love it if Kane were half as good as people make him out to be, if he were, we wouldn't have gotten crushed against Aus, SA and India. I know it's harsh but when we needed him, he failed to show up. For someone that is talked as one of the best and a future ATG, it simply isn't good enough.

Kane is a fantastic batsmen and is an upgrade on Bell, but there's something clearly missing. I don't know what it is, he just doesn't turn his innings into great or match winnings knocks. It's either a lack of talent, hunger, poor temperament, poor shot selection or combination of those. If he were as good as the other 3, he would have far more great knocks than he has, IMO those other 3 are much better in the aspects I've listed above.

That SL knock people refer to, he was dropped about 3 times... 2 of which were dollies...

I'm still waiting for a big knock (tough conditions, away from home and against a great attack) that announces him as one of the best in the game.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kane Williamson average drops to 45 in tests excluding Ban, Zim and WI.

The numbers would drop further if you exclude SL.

But that is not the all-in-all deal. His numbers are messed up with initial tours.

He has a solid temperament and has been carrying the current NZ team on his own.

Few of his knocks vs SL were great ones including that 242* and earlier this year chased down 250 in 4th inning single-handedly.

 

[Phantom Menace]

I would love it if Kane were half as good as people make him out to be, if he were, we wouldn't have gotten crushed against Aus, SA and India. I know it's harsh but when we needed him, he failed to show up. For someone that is talked as one of the best and a future ATG, it simply isn't good enough.

Kane is a fantastic batsmen and is an upgrade on Bell, but there's something clearly missing. I don't know what it is, he just doesn't turn his innings into great or match winnings knocks. It's either a lack of talent, hunger, poor temperament, poor shot selection or combination of those. If he were as good as the other 3, he would have far more great knocks than he has, IMO those other 3 are much better in the aspects I've listed above.

That SL knock people refer to, he was dropped about 3 times... 2 of which were dollies...

I'm still waiting for a big knock (tough conditions, away from home and against a great attack) that announces him as one of the best in the game.

In a weak team a star batsman will naturally have less match winning innings than in a stronger team. You say it has to be lack of talent, hunger, temperament or shot selection. I say its the inability of the bowling attack to bowl teams out on anything other than minefields. Australia, England and India within the subcontinent are able to run through lineups. The NZ attack just cant do that.

Great knocks are subjective but Kane has several that I can remember which puts him on par with the other young guns

I almost get the feeling that your issue with Kane is that he hasn't singlehandedly won us test matches from difficult circumstances on hard tracks.

Also McCullum got dropped on 9 by Kohli which was a dolly and that knock is still one of the greatest of all time.