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Wahab Riaz should be dropped - thoughts?

AZ_cricket_fan

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I personally feel Wahab Riaz is not a major force anymore and has not been a match winner in a long time. Bowling fast is awesome but leaking runs without wickets to show for it is not.

Wahab is continuously played as if he cant be replaced which is not true at all.
Given Pakistan's bench strength in fast bowling, Wahab should be dropped immediately from all formats so he can go back to domestic cricket and work on his mojo. We have Amir, Sohail Khan and Hassan Ali to head the pace attack with great potential like Rumman Raees waiting in the wings.


Key takeaway is that for Pakistan to win matches, we need a great bowling attack at all times given our batting frailties so having a spent force like Wahab around hampers our chances.
 
definitely needs to go.... with just pace only he has played way too far in his career, still cannot learn the art of swing/seam, he has a deadlock wrist said by both Ws and on which both W's gave up mentoring him to change wrist position to swing... With his pace if he can swing or seam will be lethal... Now he is just a bowling machine that can bowl fast..
 
rumman raees has increased his pace from what we saw in the last T20... but Junaid did well in AUS... Sohail despite doing so well not getting selected is bad, hope he gets selected for the CT... I think if he is selected then only one either hasan ali or sohail khan can play... But sohail wins with his batting ability but loses with his fielding ability and age, may be that is what is keeping him out of selection...
 
Absolutely not. He was the reason we won the second T20i and was amazing in the 3rd. Just a bad outing in the 4th.
 
Yes thanks ask_analyse_act. Forgot about Junaid Khan whom you rightly mentioned! I would like to see how Junaid performs in ODIs against WI as he is still making a comeback and fighting for a permanent spot.
 
Absolutely not. He was the reason we won the second T20i and was amazing in the 3rd. Just a bad outing in the 4th.

Additionally, please think from a consistency point of view. How long has it been that he has been threatening just like that 2015 semifinal vs Aus? Unfortunately he has been taken to the cleaners way more often than the number of times he has won matches. Like I said he should be dropped only because we have enough talent to replace him who deserve to be given a fair crack.
 
Not enough quality or consistency there to be a first choice bowler
 
Much needed in T20's and Tests. Should be rested in ODI's.
 
Absolutely not. He was the reason we won the second T20i and was amazing in the 3rd. Just a bad outing in the 4th.

So Shadab's 4 wickets, or Hasan's excellent last over weren't the reason, but phassst bowler Wahab was the reason we won. Yes that is correct :14:

In the third T20 he bowled a total of 2 overs and the match was won by the WI in the 15th over. Where is the amazing ???



In the fourth T20 where no other bowler conceded runs at more than 6.25, ultra phasst shupa-ishtaar Wahab went for 11 rpo over his completed quota.



Amazing performance. Truly world class

:bow:
 
rumman raees has increased his pace from what we saw in the last T20... but Junaid did well in AUS... Sohail despite doing so well not getting selected is bad, hope he gets selected for the CT... I think if he is selected then only one either hasan ali or sohail khan can play... But sohail wins with his batting ability but loses with his fielding ability and age, may be that is what is keeping him out of selection...

Agreed. Sohail not playing in WI for ODI's is not a good sign however I am hoping Junaid is able to make an impact.

My money is on Sarfraz dropping Wahab and calling it a 'tactical change' just like he dropped Hafeez :)
 
One of the worst bowlers playing based on pure hype. If YK is the worst batsman to play most matches in ODIs, Wahab is definitely the worst bowler to play for such a long time for Pakistan. whenever he plays big boys he gets carted all over the ground.
 
Much needed in T20's and Tests. Should be rested in ODI's.

Misbah will most likely play Wahab in Tests as he doesnt tamper with his lineup much. So Wahab will get his chances but if he continues to be inconsistent, then should be dropped from Tests as well.
 
Wahab should have been dropped from the ODIs after the series in England. He can stay in tests and t20 squad but shouldn't play regularly because he's not a reliable bowler and he's declining, he's almost 32.
 
Pace is Vital

One positive change I have seen in both Hasan Ali and Ruman Raees that they realize pace is vital to stay in national side, something we ignore in Misbah's era, guys like Rahat, Imran Khan, Sohail and others like them, who were all half fit and trundling at 130s were standard in national team.

These changes has to do somewhat we Wahab and Amir being at national level. And guys seeing other international bowlers (Strac/Rabada/Cumins) as target to reach. They also realize varieties can get to in the team but pace is the one that will take you to the next level. One of the advantage of pace is that you get fitter automatically, Wahab maybe inaccurate but he is one of the fittest fast bowler, including any other international fast bowler in the circuit. Guys with much less pace Sohail, Rahat, Imran are far less fitter than him...

As a die heart Pakistani fan, I want arm race of pace, like in 90s, every young kid should think about pace first even at domestic level...That is only way Pakistan can go back to the top 4 in LOIs...


Wahab dilemma

Wahab is a unique pacer, who has lack of control, not because of pace but mainly his wrist issues. I don't think every other pacer who bowls fast will have similar issues. We should not link pace to lack of control, sometimes PPers want to settle on trundler with better control...Management should not settle on those standards.

Wahab still has value and role to play, he has to pick one or two formats. Pakistan still needs him in test on dry pitches, his reverse swing will be vital... One less format (no ODIs) will make him better in other two...Sort of what we did with Amir....Although I still think for T20 tournament, Amir has to be there, but for next year or so let Amir focus on ODI and test only...Same way Wahab should focus on T20 and Test only in next year or so. But I can imagine Wahab has to be part of ODI squad for ICC tournaments, he is a big match player, you just cannot have him sit out... In last two WCs, he performs his best when stakes were highest, in both 2011 WC-SF and 2015 WC-QF, against best teams, he was best bowler pretty much on both side...I would not like to sit him out, but cutting down workload for both Wahab and Amir is must in next 2 years.
 
^^

Also its not just Hasan and Raees, Shanwari is also going to push his pace from 135s to 142s in a year or so...I think coach is telling these youngsters, you got to have to have the pace period!! - I can see the era of pace first coming back in Pakistan, I am so desperately waiting for it...With pace bowl will reverse too, yorkers will be back and varieties will be more deadly, extra 6/8 clicks makes you so much better bowler in all formats...

I expect these three(Hasan, Raees, Shanwari) averaging 140s in a year time, that will push the competition and make our bowling modern with quality spinners...This will improve their fitness and fielding as well not to mention hitting ability...I don't expect Rahat, Sohail, Imran to improve there pace, they are too old and more importantly unfit to do so...These new guys are at age, where they can adopt and change themselves...Train has already left for old guys :facepalm:
 
Off topic, but Hasan Ali bowled a delivery at 147 kph yesterday , that was seriously quick. If he can get a bit stronger he will bowl 145 regularly, he has a beautiful action.
 
Misbah will most likely play Wahab in Tests as he doesnt tamper with his lineup much. So Wahab will get his chances but if he continues to be inconsistent, then should be dropped from Tests as well.

In tests he will get away with the reverse swing... in t20s can get away with 4 overs with slower balls variations... In ODIs after the new rule of two new balls his reverse swing impact becomes void, cant bowl fast for 10 overs and just hope for the best, results in giving away 10-11 rpo...I will never forget this delivery to smith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyKHi0PZock such a brainless bowler to play cricket ever...

*****************In ODIs he shouldnt even be in the squad**********************
 
Off topic, but Hasan Ali bowled a delivery at 147 kph yesterday , that was seriously quick. If he can get a bit stronger he will bowl 145 regularly, he has a beautiful action.

[MENTION=18398]IAJ[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]: Raw pace certainly unsettles batsman and I had the honor of watching Wahab bowl live in 2015 World Cup in Christchurch vs WI.

I can tell you that he was by far the fastest bowler on either side. TV doesnt do justice to his speed; at the ground, if you blink you miss seeing his delivery! Jerome Taylor was 2nd fastest but nowhere near Wahab.

So yes, the guy has serious pace but the lack of control makes it easy pickings for batsmen. The consistent width on offer allows batsmen to even edge away for boundaries.

He has had a long run in the side with not enough match winning performances is where I rest my case.
 
Should be dropped from LOIs. Its so frustrating seeing him bowl that shortish lenght all the time. I mean get those yorkers in at pace!
 
Sohail Khan should be ahead of Wahab Riaz in T20s. Really unfair after being named the best bowler in PSL.

I hope it was more of a message by team admin to get his fitness right.
 
Should play Tests.

Should not play ODIs.

Should play 1/3 T20Is in a series.

Should play all ICC tournaments.
 
He's good for tests, can really turn it on and especially when he was some reverse swing going, can be very difficult to play.

LOIs though, an easy replacement is Sohail Khan, will take more wickets, score more runs, and be more economical.
 
Probably still Pakistan's best fast bowler, better than Sohail, Rahat and Imran. Maybe Amir is as good but doesn't take wickets. I like Wahab's attitude too, good personality.
 
Mediocre in T20's and ODI's most of the time but still can produce a moment of magic - with his pace - he will always have some sort of threat.

Definitely the front line bowler in Tests though.
 
he is rubbish. the only thing keeping him in the team is that theres no superstars, most of the pacers including amir are all mediocre. they shod keep rotating until a talent emerges.
 
Like so many Pakistani players, Wahab started international cricket with a bang, never improved, got found out, declined, and is now a liability being carried by the younger players who are at the stage he was when he started.
 
So Shadab's 4 wickets, or Hasan's excellent last over weren't the reason, but phassst bowler Wahab was the reason we won. Yes that is correct :14:

In the third T20 he bowled a total of 2 overs and the match was won by the WI in the 15th over. Where is the amazing ???



In the fourth T20 where no other bowler conceded runs at more than 6.25, ultra phasst shupa-ishtaar Wahab went for 11 rpo over his completed quota.



Amazing performance. Truly world class

:bow:

Come on man. Hasan had FOURTEEN runs to defend in the last over with a bunch of tailenders. Wahab bowled at frighteningly fast speeds in the second last overs and was very economical. He even got the wicket of Carlos Brathwaite with a beauty - someone who's played us like school kids throughout the series.

As for the second match, he was bowling beautifully. Safraz should've bowled him more and he could've even won us the match. Any-who, point is, Wahab is a deadly weapon and dropping him, at least for T20i's is the last thing we should do. ODI's; sure. But not the shorter format.
 
Additionally, please think from a consistency point of view. How long has it been that he has been threatening just like that 2015 semifinal vs Aus? Unfortunately he has been taken to the cleaners way more often than the number of times he has won matches. Like I said he should be dropped only because we have enough talent to replace him who deserve to be given a fair crack.

What talent are you speaking of man? The 120 kph trundlers? I like Usman Shinwari very much but he's nothing but a 130 KPH bowler who's going to be completely innocuous on pitches that don't suit him. Wahab has bowled beautifully on pitches that don't offer any help!
 
Riaz should be a test only bowler, he has been obselete in the shorter formats since the two new ball rule, and please nobody bring up watson.
 
Mediocre in T20's and ODI's most of the time but still can produce a moment of magic - with his pace - he will always have some sort of threat.

Definitely the front line bowler in Tests though.

There are 40 bowlers in the ICC rankings capable of "producing some magic." "on their day," and therefore posing "some sort of threat," be it on account of their height, swing, accuracy, frightful moustache, or whatever other attribute takes your fancy. None of them dare I say get as much credit for taking so few wickets as does Wahab. The fact that he was indeed the best pace bowler on display in the last Test series, having been third or fourth best in previous ones, does does him very scant credit. It means that the PCB urgently needs to blood new prospects. The problem in T20s is that it is a game where on account of the narrow margins he is more likely to outright loose his team a game all by himself than he is to win one. If Hasan Ali can bowl at 147 kph than he is already about as fast as Wahab, so I don't know how much he brings to the table really. But again, I have to acknowledge that Amir has really been very mediocre in this format recently, slotting him in in place of Wahab is not a solution to me.
 
^^

Also its not just Hasan and Raees, Shanwari is also going to push his pace from 135s to 142s in a year or so...I think coach is telling these youngsters, you got to have to have the pace period!! - I can see the era of pace first coming back in Pakistan, I am so desperately waiting for it...With pace bowl will reverse too, yorkers will be back and varieties will be more deadly, extra 6/8 clicks makes you so much better bowler in all formats...

I expect these three(Hasan, Raees, Shanwari) averaging 140s in a year time, that will push the competition and make our bowling modern with quality spinners...This will improve their fitness and fielding as well not to mention hitting ability...I don't expect Rahat, Sohail, Imran to improve there pace, they are too old and more importantly unfit to do so...These new guys are at age, where they can adopt and change themselves...Train has already left for old guys :facepalm:

I don't know on what basis these mid 130's bowlers will suddenly find a few yards of extra pace in a year's time. If they could bowl faster, they probably would be doing it already. Best just to accept them as what they are, medium pacers who use control and variety as their main weapons.

Agains that you have Wahab who is genuine pace but has no control and limited variety. Take your pick which you prefer, neither choice is ideal.
 
I don't know on what basis these mid 130's bowlers will suddenly find a few yards of extra pace in a year's time. If they could bowl faster, they probably would be doing it already. Best just to accept them as what they are, medium pacers who use control and variety as their main weapons.

Agains that you have Wahab who is genuine pace but has no control and limited variety. Take your pick which you prefer, neither choice is ideal.

Hasan and Shinwari are young, they can gain yard of speed. When Strac came in he was bowling 138 Avg speed, after 2/3 years that bumped by 10 clicks, his avg speed now a days is 147/148... People do gain speed.

Hasan has already gain speed in last year or so...His effort ball now is 146/147 (in this series alone), his seam up balls have gone from 135/136 to 139/140 as well. There is an empirical evidence of speed gain :)

Shanwari is another guy who has forceful action already bowls at avg pace of 135/136, effort ball around 142/143...I can see him notch up his avg by 5 clicks, by just been move fit, that is only way he can break through to the team...

Raees has bowled yesterday few ball 138/139, maybe little above 140. He has good control and yorker...

Main difference I see in last year, new guys are focusing on pace, maybe Micky is pushing them to gain pace...They all are good in death(good here is relative term), yorkers, reverse is really effective when you have pace, inorder for them to improve in those skills, gaining yard of pace is only way moving forward, at some level they know that now...
 
Thank you all for your thoughts. Most of you agree that he should be dropped from atleast 1 format and his highest effectiveness is in Tests due to reverse swing.
While I agree with that to an extent, my only concern is that when the team needs 2 fast bowlers, 2 spinners and an allrounder for certain Test matches/spinning tracks then he doesnt make the cut for me.

I sincerely hope for the sake of Pakistan cricket that Wahab proves me wrong with the future chances he gets but if he doesnt, then the writing is on the wall for this guy.
 
Hasan and Shinwari are young, they can gain yard of speed. When Strac came in he was bowling 138 Avg speed, after 2/3 years that bumped by 10 clicks, his avg speed now a days is 147/148... People do gain speed.

Hasan has already gain speed in last year or so...His effort ball now is 146/147 (in this series alone), his seam up balls have gone from 135/136 to 139/140 as well. There is an empirical evidence of speed gain :)

Shanwari is another guy who has forceful action already bowls at avg pace of 135/136, effort ball around 142/143...I can see him notch up his avg by 5 clicks, by just been move fit, that is only way he can break through to the team...

Raees has bowled yesterday few ball 138/139, maybe little above 140. He has good control and yorker...

Main difference I see in last year, new guys are focusing on pace, maybe Micky is pushing them to gain pace...They all are good in death(good here is relative term), yorkers, reverse is really effective when you have pace, inorder for them to improve in those skills, gaining yard of pace is only way moving forward, at some level they know that now...

For what it's worth, I like all the bowlers you have mentioned, whether they gain the extra yards of pace with maturity or not. Hasan is the one who looks like he can actually move up a gear right now. Very good bowler in my view.

These guys all have a very good temperament, this is a plus in their favour. Raees looks like a trundler to many people, but I see an ice cold performer. He bowled some really good death overs in the PSL, and that cool celebration betrays self confidence to spare. These guys are already ahead of ******* and Rahat for limited over cricket in my book.
 
Strange that we don't pick bowlers who don't have much pace but take lots of wickets ie Sadaf Hussain. But when the very fast bowler is not doing well we want to drop him....

About time we pick players who actually take lots of wickets rather than just looking at pace.
 
He's not world-class but I still wouldn't drop him. I like the idea of rotating fast bowlers so they all stay fit and so Wahab should not be dropped. He definitely has his games where he sprays wildly like Shaun Tait... but then sometimes he gets it right. Not that many better options IMO, and should keep him in the squad.
 
He's backed by a powerful minister it would be hard to drop him.

Oh really, is that the only reason?? - Give me a break... Wahab is not world class but its not like there are 2/3 world class bowler sitting on bench and he is preferred. He is fastest bowler Pakistan has/had in last 7/8 years, had couple of very impactful performances when matter most...Its not like Wahab is preferred over Strac and Cumins, most of the guys are completely rubbish...Reality it we are struggling to produce fast bowler on consistent basis, there is no selection corruption here, stop throwing nonsense reasons :facepalm:
 
For what it's worth, I like all the bowlers you have mentioned, whether they gain the extra yards of pace with maturity or not. Hasan is the one who looks like he can actually move up a gear right now. Very good bowler in my view.

These guys all have a very good temperament, this is a plus in their favour. Raees looks like a trundler to many people, but I see an ice cold performer. He bowled some really good death overs in the PSL, and that cool celebration betrays self confidence to spare. These guys are already ahead of ******* and Rahat for limited over cricket in my book.


Agreed, both Shanwari and Raees should be regular in LOI teams and get few games every series...They both have potential..Only problem is both are lefty, Amir and Wahab are lefty too, You need right arm bowlers :(
 
Oh really, is that the only reason?? - Give me a break... Wahab is not world class but its not like there are 2/3 world class bowler sitting on bench and he is preferred. He is fastest bowler Pakistan has/had in last 7/8 years, had couple of very impactful performances when matter most...Its not like Wahab is preferred over Strac and Cumins, most of the guys are completely rubbish...Reality it we are struggling to produce fast bowler on consistent basis, there is no selection corruption here, stop throwing nonsense reasons :facepalm:

Yes powerful minister backing is absolute bakwaas. However choosing Wahab only because he is the fastest is also not correct. His effectiveness has declined and needs to work on his game.
 
What talent are you speaking of man? The 120 kph trundlers? I like Usman Shinwari very much but he's nothing but a 130 KPH bowler who's going to be completely innocuous on pitches that don't suit him. Wahab has bowled beautifully on pitches that don't offer any help!

Junaid Khan and Rumman Raees are certainly no 120kph trundlers. Look no doubt pace is king, however that is not the only criteria of selection otherwise selection trials would only have speed guns with guys bowling at the highest clicks getting picked.
 
Junaid Khan and Rumman Raees are certainly no 120kph trundlers. Look no doubt pace is king, however that is not the only criteria of selection otherwise selection trials would only have speed guns with guys bowling at the highest clicks getting picked.

Agreed but man, we need to have at least one threatening bowler. Sure, he leaks runs every once in a while but he is also successful more often than not. Our attack will be no different to that of Sri Lanka's or Bangladesh without him. He is to our bowling what Sharjeel was to the batting. Without him, the bowling would be to one dimensional.
 
Agreed but man, we need to have at least one threatening bowler. Sure, he leaks runs every once in a while but he is also successful more often than not. Our attack will be no different to that of Sri Lanka's or Bangladesh without him. He is to our bowling what Sharjeel was to the batting. Without him, the bowling would be to one dimensional.

I agree with you on having threatening bowlers but thats my point: Wahab is not a threat with his frequent "happy birthday feel free to hit me" deliveries! With his pace, he should be able to fool batsmen by mixing his overs with slower deliveries, yorkers and well directed bouncers between his stock deliveries yet once he starts getting hit you will see the same kind of predictable deliveries from him asking to be smacked.

Wahab is an asset for Pakistan. He needs to fine tune though and come back firing on all cylinders with a vengeance being a threat that he can easily be!
 
What a pathetic display of bowling today. 8 overs, 58 runs, eco rate of 7.25, 1 nb and 3 wides as well

Should have been dropped from ODIs after ENGLAND ODI series
 
What a pathetic display of bowling today. 8 overs, 58 runs, eco rate of 7.25, 1 nb and 3 wides as well

Should have been dropped from ODIs after ENGLAND ODI series

Yea & Amir & Hasan bowled like angels! They are all equally mediocre.
 
What a pathetic display of bowling today. 8 overs, 58 runs, eco rate of 7.25, 1 nb and 3 wides as well

Should have been dropped from ODIs after ENGLAND ODI series

Warned twice for landing on the pitch. Awful fielding. His natural mediocrity level is restored after that over in T20 game.
 
Hasan was equally pathetic, Amir at least took a couple of wickets and his eco rate was better than both Hasan and Wahab

Amir was smoked by Jason for 18 off an over. Pathetic overall. Don't be so biased.
 
wahab is always expensive

i cant remember the last time he kept things tight He has no control on hos bowling

He Shouldve been dropped after the pasting he got in england
 
Agreed. Drop him in all formats except the test squad. Select him in the test XI when its a dry pitch.
 
Utterly useless and mediocre bowler.

Wahab Riaz's bowling strategy is "sling it and hope for the best".

Shouldn't even be in the squad
 
should have been dropped long time back.

Things like this happen when you do injustice with guys like Sadaf Hussain

Avg of 18 over a span of 5 years. Tall, swings the new ball, bowl yorkers at death and bowl wicket to wicket but never got a chance.
 
wahab post 2015 wc bowling,,,, Career averages
Span Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5
unfiltered 2008-2017 78 77 607.1 19 3416 102 5/46 33.49 5.62 35.7 4 1
filtered 2015-2017 24 24 194.2 2 1090 25 4/59 43.60 5.60 46.6 2 0
 
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Wahab dropped for the 2nd ODI and Junaid Khan did better as his replacement I think. He had a dropped catch of his 2nd delivery which is expected from Pakistani fielding but JK should be given more matches now.
 
There are 40 bowlers in the ICC rankings capable of "producing some magic." "on their day," and therefore posing "some sort of threat," be it on account of their height, swing, accuracy, frightful moustache, or whatever other attribute takes your fancy. None of them dare I say get as much credit for taking so few wickets as does Wahab. The fact that he was indeed the best pace bowler on display in the last Test series, having been third or fourth best in previous ones, does does him very scant credit. It means that the PCB urgently needs to blood new prospects. The problem in T20s is that it is a game where on account of the narrow margins he is more likely to outright loose his team a game all by himself than he is to win one. If Hasan Ali can bowl at 147 kph than he is already about as fast as Wahab, so I don't know how much he brings to the table really. But again, I have to acknowledge that Amir has really been very mediocre in this format recently, slotting him in in place of Wahab is not a solution to me.

Wahab is okayish but when he loses it, he really loses it...

Never have I seen a 95+MPH bowler go for so many runs - complete lack of control and highly erratic.

Amir is okay and but can also be a spray gun - Junaid is poor too.. Hassan Ali is the only decent pacer we have right now
 
I think Muhammad Abbas might turn out to be the surprise package. If he does well he can replace Wahab. Or SHinwari, Ruman and Ehtesham should be given a go.
 
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#BanWahab

Subject is self explanatory.
How long will we persist with him?
He is making records after records.
Enough is enough!
 
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