Was Muttiah Muralitharan a chucker?

Stop putting words in my mouth, please. I never said reverse swing was an art.

The trick is to alter the ball without ball-tampering with fingernails and substances. England are very good at that. Pakistan in 1992 were not - they were blatant actually!

No English bowler will ever develop a doosra because it is chucking, and will be prevented by the coaches and umps at school level.

The coaches could also look at it as not chucking but mere flex and twisting the rules?

The trick after all is in giving spin to the delivery....

England have not produced a doosra bowler is more likely due to the fact there hasnt been a bowler willing to be different- and not because of the moral policing of the England cricket set up.

A half baked attempt to protect your Great England set up
 
The coaches could also look at it as not chucking but mere flex and twisting the rules?

The trick after all is in giving spin to the delivery....

England have not produced a doosra bowler is more likely due to the fact there hasnt been a bowler willing to be different- and not because of the moral policing of the England cricket set up.

It is certainly true that a degree of regimentation exists in ECB coaching.

A chucker will be quickly revealed, and forced to remodel his action at schoolboy level to comply with the Laws, else will be forced out of the game.

Had Murali been born English, he would never even have played at county level, let alone for England.

CA are even bigger sticklers for this than the ECB.
 
Muttiah Muralitharan is kneeling alongside a wooden table here in the front room of his home.
His right arm, which made him the greatest — and most controversial — wicket-taker in Test cricket history, lies on the table palm up, in its resting position.
The flesh between shoulder and elbow is tight to the wood. But between elbow and wrist a funny thing happens: his forearm is suspended mid-air at an angle — Muralitharan claims — of 27 degrees.
23770F3300000578-2847962-Muttiah_Muralitharan_shows_off_his_physical_quirk_to_Sportsmail_-39_1416870275752.jpg


I’m pushing down on his hand, but there’s very little give: this bent arm, a condition inherited from his grandfather, is not for straightening.
The Sri Lankan is trying to explain why he was never a ‘chucker’, why his physical quirks were misunderstood, and why, despite all this, he thinks the ICC are right to have embarked on a global clampdown on dodgy actions.
Now 42, he seems to have come to terms with the naysayers who accused him of javelin-throwing his way into the record books.
‘Scrutiny was always there,’ he says. ‘There will be 50 per cent supporting you and 50 per cent against.’
Back in November 2004, the ICC decreed that a delivery became illegal once the flex in the arm reached 15 degrees, the level at which, they argued, a chuck became visible to the naked eye. Many felt the rubric was rewritten for one man. Muralitharan was 532 Test wickets into a career that would bring him a world record 800.
And he is adamant his critics were wrong. Tests showed that when he bowled, his flex was 10.5 degrees. According to Murali’s logic, his action is perfectly legal. Complicating the issue was his double-jointedness. The effect is a whirl of joints and limbs. He argues the impression is an optical illusion, one which persuaded two Australian umpires, Darrell Hair and Ross Emerson, to no-ball him for chucking.
Almost two decades on from those humiliations, Murali is philosophical: ‘Every man makes mistakes. Two people’s opinion can’t be the judge of a career.’
But what of the doosra, the secret weapon of the modern-day off-spinner?
Many, including Graeme Swann, believe it cannot be delivered legally.


Murali on…
… whether his Test-wickets record will ever be broken
It’s very difficult to say. Nobody thought I would take 800, nobody thought Courtney Walsh would take 500, or Shane Warne would take 700. There could be a genius bowler who comes along and takes ten wickets a match and plays for a long time.
… Kevin Pietersen
He is one of the most talented cricketers in the world. I think he has under-achieved. His average should be more than 50. My personal view is that he became dragged into other issues and his cricket dropped a little. When he first started, he was smashing everything. He couldn’t cope with the fame. Maybe that’s the issue – if he had Sachin Tendulkar’s mind, doing his job, not getting into team issues, he would have been better.
… Alastair Cook
I think England need to have attacking openers. Without attacking openers, you’re not going to win. They can’t drop Cook because he is the captain.
… the World Cup
My four teams are Australia, New Zealand, Sri Lanka and India. Dark horses are South Africa. England have to build a team, go forward, win at least the series here in Sri Lanka, then reach the finals of tri-series in Australia. Then they will have a chance. Until then it’s very difficult to say.
… Jos Buttler
He can be a brilliant player. He’s a good person as well. But he bats too low at 6 or 7.

23770F2400000578-2847962-Former_Sri_Lanka_spinner_Muttiah_Muralitharan_says_he_was_never_-41_1416870288076.jpg


Murali disagrees. First, he mimics the action used for his standard off-break; then his doosra.
He does something different with the wrist but the elbow remains unchanged. Not conclusive, but persuasive.
For a while, Murali wasn’t allowed to bowl his doosra. Following tests in Australia in 2006, that turned out to be legal too. Not that it silenced his detractors. ‘Let people shout whatever they want,’ he says. ‘I never wore long sleeves, unless it was cold. I am clear. If you’re throwing, you will know, because your elbow moves so much.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...izard-Muttiah-Muralitharan.html#ixzz3K3Tek1Ou
 
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CHUCKER Definition - If gone by ICC Rules, then he was fine.

But did he jerk (or 'throw' or 'chuck') the ball - due to whatever condition of his elbow - then a Big YES [other bowlers come to mind who would qualify as Throwers would be Akthar & Malinga]

But who in iCC can be sane enough to understand that , when the person helming it is himself battling his country's apex court for match fixing & conflict of interest
 
Absolute chucker. I dont care for any excuses about his arm ir hyper extension... He was a chucker. Plain and simple.

Hyper-extension like Akthar ? :murali...murali didn't have hyper extension. He just couldn't extend.
 
There will be always morons and ignorant fools that bark until everyone feels that their comments are right. Like Murali said you can't satisfy everyone. He did his part and so did ICC. Instead of wondering why some people are stupid, just agree that they are stupid and go ahead with your day. :murali
 
Yes. He is a chucker. He should simply not be banned because he has a physical deformity but also because the guy has played with the biggest heart and he had great skill in taking those wickets. 90% of them were through mental cunning alone.
 
Yes, he was . But he was also one of the nicest guys both on and off ground.
 
Yes. He is a chucker. He should simply not be banned because he has a physical deformity but also because the guy has played with the biggest heart and he had great skill in taking those wickets. 90% of them were through mental cunning alone.

Basically, this.

If turn alone could do everything, Stewie McGrill could have been the greatest.
 
He bowled with half sleeves too. And underwent numerous testing to prove himself. He would have been banned in today's system but he slipped under the cracks.

So, he is not a chucker. Was never proved to be one.
 
He was a chucker. Just because you have a medical condition doesn't mean that you should be allowed to chuck.
 
The definition of chucking is "you straighten your elbow more than 15 degrees"

Most of cricket fans think that he was a blatant chucker. But was he really a chucker who straightened his arm more than 15 degrees. His achievements are undermined because of this.. I want some more input.
 
Can someone post some real pictures of straightening?

I haven't seen the straightening till now but then I haven't dug in deep.

We have youtube videos and can slow mo anything. Any reliable pics of a delivery?

The one which Darell Hair called as chucking had virtually no straightening at all. There was a Youtube video of it from front angle.
 
I don't see him as a chucker but under the ICC's current action-testing procedures, he would have been banned. I don't think many offies would have survived though, which is why it is so important that the ICC mandates a faculty-wide testing for all bowlers, or at least, all off-spinners.

Murali was the GOAT as far as spinners are concerned and people need to get off his back.
 
Can someone post some real pictures of straightening?

I haven't seen the straightening till now but then I haven't dug in deep.

We have youtube videos and can slow mo anything. Any reliable pics of a delivery?

The one which Darell Hair called as chucking had virtually no straightening at all. There was a Youtube video of it from front angle.

His arm has a natural bent of 35 degrees and to be straighten it 15 degrees he had to start from at least 50 degrees.. He was able to bowl offspinners and other varieties with the brace on which restricted his elbow movement.. They also showed that he used his shoulder like no one else does and that creates an illusion.. But that wasnt a match situation.
 
I don't see him as a chucker but under the ICC's current action-testing procedures, he would have been banned. I don't think many offies would have survived though, which is why it is so important that the ICC mandates a faculty-wide testing for all bowlers, or at least, all off-spinners.

Murali was the GOAT as far as spinners are concerned and people need to get off his back.

He wouldn't have been banned, he does opposite of chucking.

I opened this thread to put an end to it.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-chucking-controversy-and-burying-it-for-good
 
The ICC will find a way.

They did ban his Doosra for a year because it was going over 5 degrees, but its not extending(throwing). We all know why ICC increased the arm extension rule, not to say Murali, but to save their own fastbowlers.
 
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They did ban his Doosra for a year because it was going over 5 degrees, but its not extending(throwing). We all know why ICC increased the arm extension rule, not to say Murali, but to save their own fastbowlers.

Yes, and they still don't know if the majority of the bowlers currently playing will pas their new tests. Hence, every bowler needs to be tested.
 
Former Sri Lanka spinner Muttiah Muralitharan has stressed on the importance of having a back-up plan in the game. Citing his own example, Muralitharan revealed that while growing up, he was aware that his bowling action could land him in trouble, hence the spinner also practiced wrist spin to ensure he always had a Plan B ready.

“I used to bowl leg spin also when I was young, so I thought in case I went for tests on my action and then it doesn’t work, I’d become a leg spinner.” Muralitharan said on the Mind Masters Show by MFORE on Star Sports Tamil.

“As for everything, even when you play cricket you should have plan A & plan B. You can’t just stick to one plan. Same with any sport. Any day you can face a failure in your life or sport, failure is guaranteed, you will need to think about it and take it positively and move on saying tomorrow is another day.”

During his career, Muralitharan landed in hot waters more than once for his action. He was infamously no-balled repeatedly by former Australia umpire Ross Emerson for throwing the ball during a tri-series in Australia in 1998-99 and had his action tested and corrected several times during his career. For any cricketer, such incidents can be mentally taxing and highlighting the importance of mental aspect, Muralitharan pointed out impact of the mind.

“In any game, 90 per cent of the work is to be tactically and mentally fit. Only then can you play. When you are young, you won’t immediately think about that (being mentally fit) because of your interest and love for the game. Automatically, without being told, you’ll think about what to do and do it,” he said.

“But when you get into the professional level, it’s totally a mental game because of the pressure. A lot of cricketers who have good technique and haven’t dealt with this pressure, have fallen off. So, the mental aspect is more important in any sport, not just cricket.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...-revelation/story-itzz7Rj5HDsdwVEMoqGQPP.html
 
Former Sri Lanka spinner Muttiah Muralitharan has stressed on the importance of having a back-up plan in the game. Citing his own example, Muralitharan revealed that while growing up, he was aware that his bowling action could land him in trouble, hence the spinner also practiced wrist spin to ensure he always had a Plan B ready.

“I used to bowl leg spin also when I was young, so I thought in case I went for tests on my action and then it doesn’t work, I’d become a leg spinner.” Muralitharan said on the Mind Masters Show by MFORE on Star Sports Tamil.

“As for everything, even when you play cricket you should have plan A & plan B. You can’t just stick to one plan. Same with any sport. Any day you can face a failure in your life or sport, failure is guaranteed, you will need to think about it and take it positively and move on saying tomorrow is another day.”

During his career, Muralitharan landed in hot waters more than once for his action. He was infamously no-balled repeatedly by former Australia umpire Ross Emerson for throwing the ball during a tri-series in Australia in 1998-99 and had his action tested and corrected several times during his career. For any cricketer, such incidents can be mentally taxing and highlighting the importance of mental aspect, Muralitharan pointed out impact of the mind.

“In any game, 90 per cent of the work is to be tactically and mentally fit. Only then can you play. When you are young, you won’t immediately think about that (being mentally fit) because of your interest and love for the game. Automatically, without being told, you’ll think about what to do and do it,” he said.

“But when you get into the professional level, it’s totally a mental game because of the pressure. A lot of cricketers who have good technique and haven’t dealt with this pressure, have fallen off. So, the mental aspect is more important in any sport, not just cricket.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...-revelation/story-itzz7Rj5HDsdwVEMoqGQPP.html

More than decent leg spinner also!
 
If ICC has cleared him, he shouldn't be called a chucker. I think he was a fantastic bowler.
 
Only Doosra should have been banned,rest all is clear considering his deformed elbow.
 
Yes, he was a chucker. Yeah, I'm dogmatic and pig-headed, but nothing would make me change my mind that he should have been banned from playing. I don't care about any deformities at birth, he had an unfair advantage over other cricketers.
 
100% a chucker whose records should declared null and void.

He had a medical condition unlike Saeed Ajmal who turned out to be a liar, but that is no excuse for being a javelin thrower.

Murali enjoyed unfair advantage and it gave him tremendous control. Still, he was not able to outshine Warne who was by far the better and more talented spinner.

Herath is the greatest spinner to come out of Sri Lanka.

Chucking is disgusting. If you have a medical condition which prevents you from bowling within the prescribed limits, too bad.

There are plenty of jobs around the world that require physical parameters. For example, if you are too short to be in military service and you get rejected, you are not in a position to complain and talk about injustice.

Muralitharan should have been banned for good but unfortunately, ICC covered under political pressure and public backlash.
 
if his action was legit, why did icc stop others from bowling with a similar action?

i remember there were at least a couple of bowlers who tried to copy his action and were called out for chucking. one of them happened to be from Pakistan. he had a successful under-19 world cup but was stopped when he moved up. cant remember if it was a local or a foreign umpire? the other one was from sri lanka if i am not mistaken?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22757566
 
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100% a chucker whose records should declared null and void.

He had a medical condition unlike Saeed Ajmal who turned out to be a liar, but that is no excuse for being a javelin thrower.

Murali enjoyed unfair advantage and it gave him tremendous control. Still, he was not able to outshine Warne who was by far the better and more talented spinner.

Herath is the greatest spinner to come out of Sri Lanka.

Chucking is disgusting. If you have a medical condition which prevents you from bowling within the prescribed limits, too bad.

There are plenty of jobs around the world that require physical parameters. For example, if you are too short to be in military service and you get rejected, you are not in a position to complain and talk about injustice.

Muralitharan should have been banned for good but unfortunately, ICC covered under political pressure and public backlash.

Similar to England right who got an objectively wrong umpiring decision in the WC final right, their WC should be cancelled.

I have no issue if you think he was a chucker, but to retroactively punish him would be wrong
 
100% a chucker whose records should declared null and void.

He had a medical condition unlike Saeed Ajmal who turned out to be a liar, but that is no excuse for being a javelin thrower.

Murali enjoyed unfair advantage and it gave him tremendous control. Still, he was not able to outshine Warne who was by far the better and more talented spinner.

Herath is the greatest spinner to come out of Sri Lanka.

Chucking is disgusting. If you have a medical condition which prevents you from bowling within the prescribed limits, too bad.

There are plenty of jobs around the world that require physical parameters. For example, if you are too short to be in military service and you get rejected, you are not in a position to complain and talk about injustice.

Muralitharan should have been banned for good but unfortunately, ICC covered under political pressure and public backlash.

Ajmal's "medical condition" was a lie and Ajmal was found out to be a fraud and his condition was in his elbow. Murali's condition was in his shoulder, nevertheless, he never exceeded the 15 degrees extension. Only time he exceeded the ICC set limit was in late 90s when spinners were only allowed 5 degrees. The way how things are apart from Chinaman and Leg Spinners all the finger spinners would be banned if the 5 degree persisted.
 
Lot of idiotic comments by posters who have no idea what they are even talking. Murali's deformity was that he couldn't extend his elbow and it was locked at certain angle. If murali had any advantage it was his double jointed shoulder which helped him bowl the Doosra. Watch his bowling action is slow motion. I think some posters are bitter because Ajmal who got banned so they wanna throw some shades at Murali.
 
Similar to England right who got an objectively wrong umpiring decision in the WC final right, their WC should be cancelled.

I have no issue if you think he was a chucker, but to retroactively punish him would be wrong

England benefited from an umpiring error, while Murali benefited from the ICC deliberately allowing leniency to chuckers.

I am a supporter of the big 3 dominance in cricket, and the clampdown on chuckers has been their greatest gift.
 
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