"We'll judge ourselves on whether or not we're a great cricket team if we beat Ind in Ind" : Langer

[AMSS]

"We'll judge ourselves on whether or not we're a great cricket team if we beat Ind in Ind" : Langer

Freshly appointed coach of the Australian cricket team had this to say when he was asked about his biggest challenge.

"The Indian Test tour in about three of four years' time, to me that's the ultimate because we will judge ourselves on whether or not we're a great cricket team if we beat India in India. I look back on my career and the Mt Everest moment was 2004 when we finally beat India in India."

Not South Africa, and not even the Ashes. Insightful remark on whom the Aussies saw as their toughest competitors back in their dominant years.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/top...lia-coach-hippy-nightclub-brothers/2018-05-03

 

[Ab Fan]

Ahead of Ashes?

This is amazing!

 

[haroon91]

First beat Pakistan in the UAE

 

[AFM]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] might have a problem with this statement

 

[pakistani pride]

LOL

How about you beat your rivals in ENG first? Been some time now.

Also pakistan and SL away should be in that list....

 

[MMHS]

I think, it indicates his insight of cricket.

There are 3 distinctive venues in world cricket - the dust bowl of Asia, the hard cracker of AUS/SAF & the seemer/swinger of ENG/NZ.

For an Asian side, ultimate target is to win a series in AUS/SAF because both are top sides and it’s extremely dificult to adjust batting onto those bouncy tracks shifting from front foot, soft wrist Asian games to back foot bottom hand game. Then comes the bowling length and type - finger spinners are almost useless in AUS. Besides, Asian sides are poor in slip catching - in AUS/SAF almost 60% dismissals happen from catches behind batsmen and I can safely say most of the close Tests, losers (Asian sides) were determined by the number of drops in cordon. Asian sides have won WC outside Asia, but yet to win a Test series in AUS/SAF.

For a non Asian side, particularly AUS, the biggest challenge has to be to win in Asian condition for opposites reasons - batting technique shifts from back foot to front foot, batting strategy shots from enforcing batting to patience driven long stay and there is a massive be change in bowling length, bowling combination & bowling skills - from swing/seem stock bowling moves to spin and from using new ball, skill shots to better use of old ball.

Among Asian sides, IND is best Test team by some margin and in a different league at home - so that should be final frontier for AUS (for any non Asian side). They lost 3-0 in SRL, 2-0 in UAE & drew 1-1 in BD, so obviously there is an issue overall; but as the ultimate target, I don’t think one comes with a laundry list.

Same goes for IND or PAK - instead of telling each other’s name, I am sure both will say that ultimate judgement is about winning Test series in AUS.

 

[pakistani pride]

I think, it indicates his insight of cricket.

There are 3 distinctive venues in world cricket - the dust bowl of Asia, the hard cracker of AUS/SAF & the seemer/swinger of ENG/NZ.

For an Asian side, ultimate target is to win a series in AUS/SAF because both are top sides and it’s extremely dificult to adjust batting onto those bouncy tracks shifting from front foot, soft wrist Asian games to back foot bottom hand game. Then comes the bowling length and type - finger spinners are almost useless in AUS. Besides, Asian sides are poor in slip catching - in AUS/SAF almost 60% dismissals happen from catches behind batsmen and I can safely say most of the close Tests, losers (Asian sides) were determined by the number of drops in cordon. Asian sides have won WC outside Asia, but yet to win a Test series in AUS/SAF.

For a non Asian side, particularly AUS, the biggest challenge has to be to win in Asian condition for opposites reasons - batting technique shifts from back foot to front foot, batting strategy shots from enforcing batting to patience driven long stay and there is a massive be change in bowling length, bowling combination & bowling skills - from swing/seem stock bowling moves to spin and from using new ball, skill shots to better use of old ball.

Among Asian sides, IND is best Test team by some margin and in a different league at home - so that should be final frontier for AUS (for any non Asian side). They lost 3-0 in SRL, 2-0 in UAE & drew 1-1 in BD, so obviously there is an issue overall; but as the ultimate target, I don’t think one comes with a laundry list.

Same goes for IND or PAK - instead of telling each other’s name, I am sure both will say that ultimate judgement is about winning Test series in AUS.

Got the point and fair enough India indeed has been the best in asia last 10 years although not playing PAK team during misbah peak tenure will remain a question mark.

But Langer needs to understand AUS has been pathetic away from home vs almost all teams. Also they havnt beaten ENG in ENG for a long long time. So his remark makes little sense.

 

[AMSS]

Langer's remark about his current challenge is of *no* significance. Sure, he should aim high but the bare fact is that Australia are a middling test team. They lose more than win when playing overseas.

My main point of interest was that the all conquering Australian team of early 2000s considered a win against Sachin-less India as their Mount Everest. Nice.

 

[pakistani pride]

Langer's remark about his current challenge is of *no* significance. Sure, he should aim high but the bare fact is that Australia are a middling test team. They lose more than win when playing overseas.

My main point of interest was that the all conquering Australian team of early 2000s considered a win against Sachin-less India as their Mount Everest. Nice.

I guess after the shock they received in 2001 beating India IN India was important. Dont know their record in 2000s in SA but they smashed every one.

 

[AMSS]

I guess after the shock they received in 2001 beating India IN India was important. Dont know their record in 2000s in SA but they smashed every one.

Before 2001, they received a sound thrashing in 1998 as well. And prior to that in 1996, they were beaten in the solitary test in Delhi. 2001 was hyped because Aussies were on a hot streak of 16 or so straight wins and Steve Waugh justifiably thought he'd be third time lucky.

They used to slap SA for fun both at home and away...till the series in 2008 I believe. Same with England till that titanic 2005 series.

 

[Hasan123]

Thought winning the ashes would be the most important thing but understand why winning in India is.

 

[Thomaskutty]

First beat Pakistan in the UAE

Not much of a challenge for Langer. All he remembers is the thrashing Pakistan got in the UAE test maybe a decade ago. Aus bundled out Pak for about 50 odd twice if I remember right.

 

[Send1983]

I think, it indicates his insight of cricket.

There are 3 distinctive venues in world cricket - the dust bowl of Asia, the hard cracker of AUS/SAF & the seemer/swinger of ENG/NZ.

For an Asian side, ultimate target is to win a series in AUS/SAF because both are top sides and itÂ’s extremely dificult to adjust batting onto those bouncy tracks shifting from front foot, soft wrist Asian games to back foot bottom hand game. Then comes the bowling length and type - finger spinners are almost useless in AUS. Besides, Asian sides are poor in slip catching - in AUS/SAF almost 60% dismissals happen from catches behind batsmen and I can safely say most of the close Tests, losers (Asian sides) were determined by the number of drops in cordon. Asian sides have won WC outside Asia, but yet to win a Test series in AUS/SAF.

For a non Asian side, particularly AUS, the biggest challenge has to be to win in Asian condition for opposites reasons - batting technique shifts from back foot to front foot, batting strategy shots from enforcing batting to patience driven long stay and there is a massive be change in bowling length, bowling combination & bowling skills - from swing/seem stock bowling moves to spin and from using new ball, skill shots to better use of old ball.

Among Asian sides, IND is best Test team by some margin and in a different league at home - so that should be final frontier for AUS (for any non Asian side). They lost 3-0 in SRL, 2-0 in UAE & drew 1-1 in BD, so obviously there is an issue overall; but as the ultimate target, I donÂ’t think one comes with a laundry list.

Same goes for IND or PAK - instead of telling each otherÂ’s name, I am sure both will say that ultimate judgement is about winning Test series in AUS.

Spot on.

 

[Kaptan]

It's quiet obvious. One must always strive to challenge the best.

 

[Hitman]

Must be on the pay roll of the BCCI. He should have said that beating Pak (anywhere) is his ultimate dream.

 

[Hitman]

Not much of a challenge for Langer. All he remembers is the thrashing Pakistan got in the UAE test maybe a decade ago. Aus bundled out Pak for about 50 odd twice if I remember right.

) Wasn't Pak bundled out for 52 and 54, I guess? ) ) ) ) )

 

[Pete Rose]

despite all logical evidence to the contrary: ie not having won against South Africa at home for quite a while.

 

[Pete Rose]

Not much of a challenge for Langer. All he remembers is the thrashing Pakistan got in the UAE test maybe a decade ago. Aus bundled out Pak for about 50 odd twice if I remember right.

yeah and then we magically fast forwarded it to now without any tour in between. by that benchmark, most Pakistani fans would think beating india in india is a cakewalk

 

[Napa]

despite all logical evidence to the contrary: ie not having won against South Africa at home for quite a while.

yeah and then we magically fast forwarded it to now without any tour in between. by that benchmark, most Pakistani fans would think beating india in india is a cakewalk

1. While losing to SA at home, Australia has beaten SA in their home quite often.

2. Seems reasonable that he attaches more value to beating the #1 team to beating the #7 team.

 

[Pete Rose]

1. While losing to SA at home, Australia has beaten SA in their home quite often.

2. Seems reasonable that he attaches more value to beating the #1 team to beating the #7 team.

1. Sure they beat India at home regularly as well: its always about what you are not able to do that counts.
2a. India is a better test team than Pakistan at the moment yes. Surely langer realizes rankings change fairly quickly in cricket these days.

 

[AMSS]

despite all logical evidence to the contrary: ie not having won against South Africa at home for quite a while.

Nothing illogical here. He and possibly more than a few teammates from his world conquering Australian side found winning in India more of an accomplishment than any other series. As a coach, he feels that winning a series is more challenging than winning against South Africans at home. Which is entirely accurate because India are even more tough for touring sides now than they were 15 years ago.

 

[Send1983]

Unlike English team, Australians never gave excuses that India prepared dust bowl when they lost every time in 90s in India. They took it as a challenge and f8nally won it in 2004, although they were lucky to win that series.(Sachin was playing with tennis elbow injury, missed some of the games, rain saved them in Chennai, Shawshank manohar turning Nagpur pitch into edgebeston )

 

[Pete Rose]

Nothing illogical here. He and possibly more than a few teammates from his world conquering Australian side found winning in India more of an accomplishment than any other series. As a coach, he feels that winning a series is more challenging than winning against South Africans at home. Which is entirely accurate because India are even more tough for touring sides now than they were 15 years ago.

yes its an opinion of his that can be defended or derided. generally not a good sign to bring your past baggage to a job.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

Steve waugh also mentioned many times that beating India in India is the final frontier for them..Langer is just reiterating that point...

 

[Mp812]

Not much of a challenge for Langer. All he remembers is the thrashing Pakistan got in the UAE test maybe a decade ago. Aus bundled out Pak for about 50 odd twice if I remember right.

Warne magic

 

[Napa]

1. Sure they beat India at home regularly as well: its always about what you are not able to do that counts.
2a. India is a better test team than Pakistan at the moment yes. Surely langer realizes rankings change fairly quickly in cricket these days.

1. The point is that SA and Australia offer similar sort of pitches, so these two teams are evenly matched when they play each other in SA or Aus. India however is a different sort, and SA/Aus/Eng/NZ have had a lot of trouble in India. If he wants to accomplish the most difficult task to prove that he has a "great team", he wants to overcome the hardest challenge of beating India in India.

2. The rankings are fairly stable at the moment. India has been #1 for over a year and with a lead of 13 points over second placed SA (and 39 points over Pakistan) it will remain #1 for a while.

I like Langer's attitude, that's the Australian competitive spirit. He has set himself the hardest challenge.

 

[kuskash]

Someone should remind Langer that it is the Pak and not India who won CT regardless of the discussion is about tests only.

 

[AMSS]

yes its an opinion of his that can be defended or derided. generally not a good sign to bring your past baggage to a job.

There's a consensus that winning at home is easier than winning away. Among away tours, it is objectively true that winning in India is probably the hardest on account of 1) the quality of opposition (ranked number 1 for almost 2 years now) and 2) conditions.

What you call baggage is actually an accomplishment for Langer that he hopes can be replicated again. Nothing remotely controversial here.

The only point of interest being the fact that he has articulated an opinion that goes contrary to the convention of Ashes subsuming every other series for the two countries involved.

 

[Vildoc]

Someone should remind Langer that it is the Pak and not India who won CT regardless of the discussion is about tests only.

Still polishing the CT cup I see lol.

 

[Pete Rose]

There's a consensus that winning at home is easier than winning away. Among away tours, it is objectively true that winning in India is probably the hardest on account of 1) the quality of opposition (ranked number 1 for almost 2 years now) and 2) conditions.

What you call baggage is actually an accomplishment for Langer that he hopes can be replicated again. Nothing remotely controversial here.

The only point of interest being the fact that he has articulated an opinion that goes contrary to the convention of Ashes subsuming every other series for the two countries involved.

That’s a lot of text. I am not quite sure what you are defending. Australia has fared poorly vs South Africa at home, which matters because I keep getting reminded Aussie fans care more home season rather than away except ashes.
As for beating India in India, it’s big. Bigger than ashes? No idea.

 

[Mamoon]

Some people are naturally hurt by these comments, but the fact is that playing Pakistan in the UAE is completely irrelevant in comparison to playing India in India. The UAE series is just a warmup for Australia's India tour.

If they beat Pakistan and lose in India, the Pakistan series won't matter. If they lose to Pakistan and beat India, the Pakistan series won't matter. If they win both or lose both, the Indian series is the one that will stand out.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Beating India in India will remain a pipe dream for "western" tourists, specially nowadays. The Indian team is quite good, and more importantly the pitches and conditions ensure no touring team has a chance. Langer is setting an impossible to achieve bar for success.

He would be better off bringing a T20 squad to play test matches in India. As it is, tests last 2-3 days, his best bet would be to hit out and get as many runs as possible. If his plan to is to graft out test innings on square turners in India, he's staring down the barrel.

 

[Rahul1]

First the statement by Moeen, then the legendary performance against the mighty Kent, then this. This has been a bad week for our neighbours. I offer my condolences.

 

[Adijazz1706]

First the statement by Moeen, then the legendary performance against the mighty Kent, then this. This has been a bad week for our neighbours. I offer my condolences.

The Kent one is the only bad thing that happened, beating the no. 1 Team is always bigger than beating teams at 6 or 7. Aussies will lose all subcontinent tours though except maybe Bangladesh )

 

[MenInG]

TBH, there is nothing wrong with Australia. Its not as if Australia are ranked are 11th or something. Its business as usual for Aus (minus sandpaper)

 

[AMSS]

That’s a lot of text. I am not quite sure what you are defending. Australia has fared poorly vs South Africa at home, which matters because I keep getting reminded Aussie fans care more home season rather than away except ashes.
As for beating India in India, it’s big. Bigger than ashes? No idea.

There's no defence except a hopeful attempt to disabuse you of the belief that Langer is being illogical or bringing past baggage to his current job. You may or may not have any idea if beating India away is bigger than Ashes but Langer (along with his erstwhile and current team members) fully understands which is a sterner challenge. In fact, now I am not sure what your quarrel with his statement above is.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I don't think it's about the ranking though to be fair India have been no.1 in tests for nearly two years now. I think this is simply a fact that beating India away has been the hardest job for the Aussies in decades now. Sure they have lost to sa at home in the last decade but before that they used to thrash SA everywhere . But specifically beating India away is something they have done only once in a very long time

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Beating India in India will remain a pipe dream for "western" tourists, specially nowadays. The Indian team is quite good, and more importantly the pitches and conditions ensure no touring team has a chance. Langer is setting an impossible to achieve bar for success.

He would be better off bringing a T20 squad to play test matches in India. As it is, tests last 2-3 days, his best bet would be to hit out and get as many runs as possible. If his plan to is to graft out test innings on square turners in India, he's staring down the barrel.

Nothing wrong in setting the bar that high. I remember posters here talking about winning a series in Australia more than a year ago despite the fact that PAK haven't even drawn a test there in over two decades. But it's important to keep challenging yourself and setting the bar high or the team will stagnate .