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Were the vanguard of the Islamic science revolution heretics?

miandadrules

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I’ve read a lot of reference to Islam and science and constant reference to Islam’s golden age.

But those responsible would be regarded as heretics today and I would envisage that they would be persecuted to a similar extent as groups like Ahmedis are.

Discuss.
 
No they aren't and werent. Islam got extremist later on in history. We got all these fake hadith now that people treat as the word of God
 
Some were labelled as heretics by their contemporary Classical Muslim scholars.
 
in a nutshell the golden age of islamic science was the 8th to the 13th century.

1. islamic territories were expanding, coming into contact with new ideas, increasing in economic strength, which created a fertile ground for scientific discovery and the transmission and mutation of ideas of east and west along its trade routes. the end of the islamic golden age roughly coincided with mongol invasions, and subsequently loss of territories in europe, etc, which forced introspection and infighting as usually happens when the spoils of an expanding empire dry out.

2. the golden age of Islamic science was a relative occurrence, in terms of the down right dogmatic and insatiable clamp down on independent thought in europe, which happened to coincide with the receding of the christian territories. the subsequent enlightenment in Europe pretty much left any scientific competitiveness the muslim territories had for dead.

3. the term islamic golden age is a cartographic adjective, i.e. the golden age of scientific discovery in islamic territories. it has nothing specifically to do with islam, more with the two things i mentioned above. nearly all empires have a zenith, followed by a nadir which leads to eventual dissolution. scientific discoveries and economic progress tend to preceed the zenith, after which decaying empires become insular, political, paranoid. some level of scientific discoveries were still taking place in the ottoman and mughal empires, although on a much smaller scale.

so to answer ur question, as everyone was getting rich in a growing empire, no one cared, as the empires started to fall apart science came under greater scrutiny, and started getting treated as borderline heretical.
 
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However during Abbasid rule, the Abbasids patronized Mutazali scholars and prosecuted what we would call classical scholars, most notable Being Imam Ahmed Ibn hanbal.
 
No they aren't and werent. Islam got extremist later on in history. We got all these fake hadith now that people treat as the word of God

From Sahih Hadith or other sources? Just curious...
 
I’ve read a lot of reference to Islam and science and constant reference to Islam’s golden age.

But those responsible would be regarded as heretics today and I would envisage that they would be persecuted to a similar extent as groups like Ahmedis are.

Discuss.

Which Muslim scientists would be regarded as heretics now?
 
Allama Iqbal wrote Poems against Ibn e Sina, Al Razi, Al Farabi


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">علامہ اقبال نے بہت خوبصورت شاعری کی لیکن انھوں نے مسلمان سائنسدانوں کے خلاف نظمیں لکھیں اور شاعر مشرق نے مسلمانوں پر کوئی بڑا احسان نہیں کیا<br>سنئیے پرویز ہودبھائی کی گفتگو۔۔۔۔ <a href="https://t.co/kEfsxYbIQl">https://t.co/kEfsxYbIQl</a> <a href="https://t.co/lVUN7OiRse">pic.twitter.com/lVUN7OiRse</a></p>— Roshandan (@Roshandan_) <a href="https://twitter.com/Roshandan_/status/1118172388729004037?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
In 1439 printing press was invented in Germany. At the same time Sheikh ul Islam in Turkey gave Fatwa that Printing press is haraam and is unislamic. As a result it remained banned in many Muslim countries for more than 200 years.


Than we had Fatawaaz that picture is haraam, loudspeaker is haraam etc etc



If Muslims invented these things than imagine how Muslim fanatics ie Mullah’s of those age would have done to them. Wajib ul Qatal, Sattan’s aider and abetters would have been the title given to them.



Unfortunately our history is chequered.
 
Which Muslim scientists would be regarded as heretics now?

Also I would be interested to know who were the ones considered heretics in Islam's Golden Age. They must have been Muslims I take it, hence the label heretic being applied.
 
Also I would be interested to know who were the ones considered heretics in Islam's Golden Age. They must have been Muslims I take it, hence the label heretic being applied.

All good inquiries, I am still waiting on a reply from TS.
 
Many of the academics of the Golden Age seemed to be far more open minded than most current Muslims.

One academic recognised the similarity in humans and Old World Monkeys and suggested there is a link between them and our intelligence, whereas most Muslims nowadays deny that (human) evolution exists.
 
Many of the academics of the Golden Age seemed to be far more open minded than most current Muslims.

One academic recognised the similarity in humans and Old World Monkeys and suggested there is a link between them and our intelligence, whereas most Muslims nowadays deny that (human) evolution exists.

Genuinely curious when was the islamic scientific golden age and what exactly were the achievements of that age? what you claim is really interesting who was this academic who found this link, if that is true then he clearly would have preceded evolution theory, could even be the guy who first promoted it?
 
Genuinely curious when was the islamic scientific golden age and what exactly were the achievements of that age? what you claim is really interesting who was this academic who found this link, if that is true then he clearly would have preceded evolution theory, could even be the guy who first promoted it?

I don't have specific dates, but it was during the middle ages. Notable examples of wisdom from the Islamic golden age are algebra and algorithms, among other mathematical topics.

And yes, there were primitive ideas of evolution before Darwin, starting with the Greeks, whom I believe said that all life started from the sea, which is true. I can't find that exact quote anymore, but a quick wiki search takes me to Nasir al-Din al-Tusi who believed humans were derived from advanced animals. Another academic said that the world of man came from monkeys. So the discovery of evolution was a long time coming, but it was ultimately Darwin who put the pieces together.
 
I don't have specific dates, but it was during the middle ages. Notable examples of wisdom from the Islamic golden age are algebra and algorithms, among other mathematical topics.

And yes, there were primitive ideas of evolution before Darwin, starting with the Greeks, whom I believe said that all life started from the sea, which is true. I can't find that exact quote anymore, but a quick wiki search takes me to Nasir al-Din al-Tusi who believed humans were derived from advanced animals. Another academic said that the world of man came from monkeys. So the discovery of evolution was a long time coming, but it was ultimately Darwin who put the pieces together.

Thanks, did not know about algorithms, forgot about alegbra, pretty sure i read that in some textbook in school. Quite interesting.
 
Genuinely curious when was the islamic scientific golden age and what exactly were the achievements of that age? what you claim is really interesting who was this academic who found this link, if that is true then he clearly would have preceded evolution theory, could even be the guy who first promoted it?

It spanned several centuries from the 8th to the time of the mongol invasions in the 13th. The most notable discoveries were in several fields of maths, in astronomy and mathematics. Scholars were employed by the Caliphs to translate works by previous Greek, Chinese & Indian authors to Arabic. Thus they discovered the Indian decimal counting system, which included the concept of zero & transmitted it to the rest of the world. So, we now talk of "Arabic numerals".
My particular favourite was the physician who stated that to test the effect of any therapy you must have 2 groups of sufferers one of which should have the treatment while the other group does not get any. Then you observe the effects. This lays the foundation for modern randomised trials. FABULOUS INDEED.
 
It spanned several centuries from the 8th to the time of the mongol invasions in the 13th. The most notable discoveries were in several fields of maths, in astronomy and mathematics. Scholars were employed by the Caliphs to translate works by previous Greek, Chinese & Indian authors to Arabic. Thus they discovered the Indian decimal counting system, which included the concept of zero & transmitted it to the rest of the world. So, we now talk of "Arabic numerals".
My particular favourite was the physician who stated that to test the effect of any therapy you must have 2 groups of sufferers one of which should have the treatment while the other group does not get any. Then you observe the effects. This lays the foundation for modern randomised trials. FABULOUS INDEED.

Woops typo ;I should have typed .... Maths, Astronomy and Medicine
 
Genuinely curious when was the islamic scientific golden age and what exactly were the achievements of that age? what you claim is really interesting who was this academic who found this link, if that is true then he clearly would have preceded evolution theory, could even be the guy who first promoted it?

Evolution was discussed and a theory was formed by Muslims long before Darwin.

This is a great watch from the BBC.
 
This thread reeks of Islamophobia, how dare People question the scientific contributions by Muslims!

For those of you fail to pick up my sarcasm, my comment stems from another thread where those who question the Jewish contributions are labelled Anti-semetic!
 
Did you vote BJP these elections?



So now that you have found a cultural/religious angle, are you ready to accept the above :)

Im not Indian and unlike BJP who think they invented stem cell research, evolution was discussed by Muslims, this is well documented. Yet you still vote for the BJP :)

Accept what?
 
Im not Indian and unlike BJP who think they invented stem cell research, evolution was discussed by Muslims, this is well documented. Yet you still vote for the BJP :)

Accept what?

The BJP's comments definitely were laughable.

Good that you acknowledge now that the Muslims didn't start talks of evolution, though they did build upon a strong foundation left by the academics of antiquity.

I must say, however, that the Islamic 'golden age' refers more to MENA (and Iran , not entirely sure if it counts as ME) history than Islamic as a whole. It had very little, or nothing to do with, other Muslim countries at the time (namely India and modern-day Paksitan). I think Muslims from other areas should be less chest-thumpy, I certainly didn't take too much pride in it when I was Muslim, as it had very little to do with them actually being Muslim; it is just called the 'Islamic golden age' as a way to lump together the Middle East, North Africa and Iran.
 
Musaylima, Abdullah bin Sabah, Hasan Bin Sabah, Akbar, Mansur, Sarmad, Bahaullah, Mirza and Pervaiz

huh??

Musaylimah was not a scientist, neitehr was Sabah...I mean, I won't even go through the rest of your list (Akbar???)

Rather than embarrass yourself, why would you not let the OP reply to a post I quoted him in?
 
maybe to the mullah type they were heretics, i doubt that they were to the Sufi type of Muslims. Majority of Muslims are Sufi type, so to answer your question, no they would not be deemed heretics to the majority of Muslims today.
 
ran in to this interesting call on of teh shows I watch.

The calker makes the claim (among other non sensical stuff) that Quran states that moon makes its own light. Is this true? does Quran say that about the moon?

 
The calker makes the claim (among other non sensical stuff) that Quran states that moon makes its own light. Is this true? does Quran say that about the moon?
These guys are pathetic. They don't read and just say whatever they want. FYI

No, the Quran states that the moon does not make its own light, but rather reflects light from the sun:


  • Surah Furqan, Chapter 25, Verse 61
    "Blessed is He who has placed the constellation in the sky, and placed there in sun a lamp having its own light and moon having borrowed or reflected light"


  • Surah Yunus, Verse 5
    "He is the One Who made the sun a radiant source and the moon a reflected light, with precisely ordained phases, so that you may know the number of years and calculation ˹of time˺"
 
These guys are pathetic. They don't read and just say whatever they want. FYI
Yup. he is bit out there. pretty god language skills and seems to have had some coaching in debating. Too bad criticla thinking doesnlt seemto be his strongpoint. how common is this among the educated in mid east?
o
No, the Quran states that the moon does not make its own light, but rather reflects light from the sun:


  • Surah Furqan, Chapter 25, Verse 61
    "Blessed is He who has placed the constellation in the sky, and placed there in sun a lamp having its own light and moon having borrowed or reflected light"


  • Surah Yunus, Verse 5
    "He is the One Who made the sun a radiant source and the moon a reflected light, with precisely ordained phases, so that you may know the number of years and calculation ˹of time˺"
isn't moon described as noor, meaning divine light in arabic?
 
A muslim scientist. An oxymoron label that.

Which muslim scientist ever won a nobel? Any inventions in recent times? Any future prospects? Nada.

But let's grow a beard. Ankle length shalwars. And have our women only show hands. You know so they clean the dishes well.
 
is this guy being dishonest or plain dumb?

I used to listen to Matt Dillahunty in Atheist experience a few years ago. Some of the callers were very entertaining. You can see how much they were brainwashed and they cannot see beyond what they were told as kids. :rolleyes:
 
You have to laugh when people give science names like Islamic Science, Hindu Science, Christian Science etc. :vk2
 
Mohammad Abdus Salam 1979
He was so Muslim that the Pakistanis removed the word 'Muslim' from his gravestone. Initially, the writing on his gravestone was 'First Muslim Nobel Laureate'. The term 'Muslim' from that was removed, and now the reading is 'First Nobel Laureate'.
 
A muslim scientist. An oxymoron label that.

Which muslim scientist ever won a nobel? Any inventions in recent times? Any future prospects? Nada.

But let's grow a beard. Ankle length shalwars. And have our women only show hands. You know so they clean the dishes well.
This is my post from a few days ago.

Ever wondered what intellect really is like? Read below


Population of Jews in the world - 15.7 million

Population of Muslims in the world - 1.9 billion


Number of Jewish Nobel Laureates till date - 207

Number of Muslim Nobel Laureates till date - 6


P.S. I'm not including Peace Prize winners.


This is what you call proper intellect.​
 
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