What are Pakistan's options to deal with issues in IOK?

[MenInG]

Rock, hard place seem to be the keywords here as far as Pakistan is concerned when we speak of current Kashmir situation.

What can Pakistan do?

 

[sweep_shot]

Appealing to UN is useless as UN is an extremely useless organization.

All other options are more practical.

 

[Napa]

I would say that all the options listed except the last one (Do nothing and let events take their course) have been tried repeatedly over the last 70 years. While Trump has recently come into the picture, Pakistan has tried to get various other leaders to "mediate". These options have achieved zero.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Pakistan to focus its time and energy to fix its economy instead of wasting them on previously failed options? The definition of insanity is trying the same thing again and expecting different results.

 

[MenInG]

I would say that all the options listed except the last one (Do nothing and let events take their course) have been tried repeatedly over the last 70 years. While Trump has recently come into the picture, Pakistan has tried to get various other leaders to "mediate". These options have achieved zero.

Wouldn't it make more sense for Pakistan to focus its time and energy to fix its economy instead of wasting them on previously failed options? The definition of insanity is trying the same thing again and expecting different results.

is everything always about money?

 

[Napa]

is everything always about money?

Money is more important to the poor and the hungry, than some fruitless pursuit of "liberating" Kashmiris.

"Pakistan has the worst infant mortality rate in the world, reveals UNICEF report"

https://tribune.com.pk/story/163944...t-countries-still-face-alarming-risks-unicef/

Isn't it better to be able to provide basic health and nutrition to babies?

 

[MenInG]

Money is more important to the poor and the hungry, than some fruitless pursuit of "liberating" Kashmiris.

"Pakistan has the worst infant mortality rate in the world, reveals UNICEF report"

https://tribune.com.pk/story/163944...t-countries-still-face-alarming-risks-unicef/

Isn't it better to be able to provide basic health and nutrition to babies?

Would you then agree that India is wasting time and resources on space exploration etc when they should be looking to alleviate poverty back home?

Point is, there are principles one has to fight or struggle for.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Absorb our part of Kashmir, create an official border, and finally and most importantly move on after 70 years.

 

[rhony]

Any questions on J&K going forward, GOI will say it's an internal matter and will not discuss. This is an upgrade from the "bilateral only" Shimla agreement which was an upgrade over "UNSC regulations". The door has been closed for negotiations. India will continue to claim AJK and Gilgit

Pakistan can claim AJK and Gilgit but it will be seen as betraying Kashmiris. They can start a war but can't sustain it for more than a few weeks. They can continue supporting non state actors but will face repurcusions from FAFT. They can escalate within Muslim countries but it won't be effective as India has great relations with almost all of them. They can try to escalate within UNSC but China won't help. India has been silent on Uighur issue and China is returning the favor. US will release a non descript statement. UK, well no one cares. Do nothing and will lose Kashmiri confidence. There is no way to deal with this. India has taken advantage of the perfect storm. So the answer is do all of the above but expect nothing.

 

[Lego20]

Would you then agree that India is wasting time and resources on space exploration etc when they should be looking to alleviate poverty back home?

Point is, there are principles one has to fight or struggle for.

And there is reality and practicality. It woild be futile for Us to spend generations trying to fight the Kohinoor back from England. Rather you grow enough to buy it back.

 

[Mamoon]

We are a gullible and emotional nation that deserves what it gets.

While India prepared and worked for what was to come, our government and intelligence were busy with more important business.

They were busy with blackmailing judges and removing those who refused to bow, cracking down on the media and press and ensure that the opposition rallies do not get any coverage. They were busy stuffing heroin in opposition's cars and buying the loyalties of senators.

All the talk of waging a war is absurd. Wars are not fought by beggars; our bankrupt economy will create a refugee situation in Pakistan if we embark on this misadventure.

Instead of calling Malaysia and Turkey and whining to them about India's tyranny, we should call the man who fell in love with us during our dholak trip to the U.S. - the man whose promised to meditate. However, I have heard that he is not picking up our calls now.

 

[MenInG]

And there is reality and practicality. It woild be futile for Us to spend generations trying to fight the Kohinoor back from England. Rather you grow enough to buy it back.

That I agree with - hence the poll.

 

[uberkoen]

Pakistan should worry about its own economic conditions and not meddle in India's issues. Establish LOC as the official border, close this issue and move on.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

We are a gullible and emotional nation that deserves what it gets.

While India prepared and worked for what was to come, our government and intelligence were busy with more important business.

They were busy with blackmailing judges and removing those who refused to bow, cracking down on the media and press and ensure that the opposition rallies do not get any coverage. They were busy stuffing heroin in opposition's cars and buying the loyalties of senators.

All the talk of waging a war is absurd. Wars are not fought by beggars; our bankrupt economy will create a refugee situation in Pakistan if we embark on this misadventure.

Instead of calling Malaysia and Turkey and whining to them about India's tyranny, we should call the man who fell in love with us during our dholak trip to the U.S. - the man whose promised to meditate. However, I have heard that he is not picking up our calls now.

India are our rivals.

But your lot are the true enemies of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
I can only imagine the pain y'all felt from 14/08/1947 to date... and Insha Allah y'all will get even more misery... as I see Pakistan going only upwards with cancer getting removed gradually

Asal dushman tum log ho....

 

[uberkoen]

India are our rivals.

But your lot are the true enemies of Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
I can only imagine the pain y'all felt from 14/08/1947 to date... and Insha Allah y'all will get even more misery... as I see Pakistan going only upwards with cancer getting removed gradually

Asal dushman tum log ho....

lol

 

[Indiafan]

Would you then agree that India is wasting time and resources on space exploration etc when they should be looking to alleviate poverty back home?

Point is, there are principles one has to fight or struggle for.

I don't think Kashmir issue is about principles. China is committing many atrocities on Muslims and trying to wipe out Muslims yet they are Pakistan's best friend. It's an issue of pride and showing up an enemy, not morals or principles

 

[Napa]

Would you then agree that India is wasting time and resources on space exploration etc when they should be looking to alleviate poverty back home?

Point is, there are principles one has to fight or struggle for.

There is a lot of corruption in India, and by no means is it an ideal country. There are pockets in India of extreme poverty, for example many tribals.

If the space program is for "ego satisfaction", then it should not be done. I believe it actually gives back more than is spent on it, in the form of commercial satellite launches, the reputation of India technology which brings more deals for its industries, and the actual technology created.

 

[Napa]

Any questions on J&K going forward, GOI will say it's an internal matter and will not discuss. This is an upgrade from the "bilateral only" Shimla agreement which was an upgrade over "UNSC regulations". The door has been closed for negotiations. India will continue to claim AJK and Gilgit

Pakistan can claim AJK and Gilgit but it will be seen as betraying Kashmiris. They can start a war but can't sustain it for more than a few weeks. They can continue supporting non state actors but will face repurcusions from FAFT. They can escalate within Muslim countries but it won't be effective as India has great relations with almost all of them. They can try to escalate within UNSC but China won't help. India has been silent on Uighur issue and China is returning the favor. US will release a non descript statement. UK, well no one cares. Do nothing and will lose Kashmiri confidence. There is no way to deal with this. India has taken advantage of the perfect storm. So the answer is do all of the above but expect nothing.

We are a gullible and emotional nation that deserves what it gets.

While India prepared and worked for what was to come, our government and intelligence were busy with more important business.

They were busy with blackmailing judges and removing those who refused to bow, cracking down on the media and press and ensure that the opposition rallies do not get any coverage. They were busy stuffing heroin in opposition's cars and buying the loyalties of senators.

All the talk of waging a war is absurd. Wars are not fought by beggars; our bankrupt economy will create a refugee situation in Pakistan if we embark on this misadventure.

Instead of calling Malaysia and Turkey and whining to them about India's tyranny, we should call the man who fell in love with us during our dholak trip to the U.S. - the man whose promised to meditate. However, I have heard that he is not picking up our calls now.

A couple of good practical analyses of the situation.

My expectation is that there will be a lot of protests for a few months, then things will go back to where they were. I do not expect any immediate rush to buy land in Kashmir by other Indians. The security situation is too poor, but after a few or many years it will happen.

One thing people should remember is that no one is forcing Kashmiris to sell their land. They will sell only if they believe that the price they are getting makes it attractive to sell.

 

[Greenstorm]

Unfortunately we cannot do much other than doing shor sharaba at various international forums.


Musharraf made a blunder by allowing India to build fence at LOC and working boundary, thar made it almost impossible for us to aid our Kashmiri brothers and sisters through 'non state actors' and supplies etc.

We did not had the vision and foresight to establish networks deep within India and send our 'Kulbushans' to take advantage of whatever fault lines Indian union has. India kept us busy in FATA and Balochistan, kept us on defensive to an extent that the thought of bleeding India by thousand cuts never crossed our mind.

Our economic situation is so dire that we cannot even think of a military conflict with India. All we can do now is pray for Kashmiris and wait for the right time.

 

[Zahid87]

Pakistan should worry about its own economic conditions and not meddle in India's issues. Establish LOC as the official border, close this issue and move on.

When you have whipped up public sentiment for 70 years, its difficult to fall back on common sense. Although, if there was anytime that the public would understand the change in position, it might be now.

IK seems to be selling everything else, may as well use him to sell this to the public.

 

[xbronze]

Would you then agree that India is wasting time and resources on space exploration etc when they should be looking to alleviate poverty back home?

Point is, there are principles one has to fight or struggle for.

I agree philosophically with you that poor nations like India Pakistan should channelize meagre resources on poverty alleviation. Just not in the case of ISRO (India's space research organization).

ISRO is a supremely profitable venture for the Govt. of India, because it has more than 45 nation states as its clients for which ISRO launches satellites. It more than pays for itself and pays several times more back to the government kitty.

 

[Last Monetarist]

When you have whipped up public sentiment for 70 years, its difficult to fall back on common sense. Although, if there was anytime that the public would understand the change in position, it might be now.

IK seems to be selling everything else, may as well use him to sell this to the public.

Interesting philosophical question, one I think the PM would be able to get away with and you'd see most of his supporters scrambling to defend to the hills. But then the PM wouldn't be allowed to play the dashing role of Tipu Sultan, which scuppers the scenario in its infancy. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[Mamoon]

Interesting philosophical question, one I think the PM would be able to get away with and you'd see most of his supporters scrambling to defend to the hills. But then the PM wouldn't be allowed to play the dashing role of Tipu Sultan, which scuppers the scenario in its infancy. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

He is completely helpless at the moment. He has no say on our foreign policy and our military needs to engage in Kashmir to maintain its influence on the country. As a result, even if Imran wanted to back out at this point, he doesn't have the power to do so.

Nevertheless, this is a terrific opportunity for the establishment to put the country over themselves for once. We have the chance to finally do what we should have done decades ago - let the people of J&K deal with India on their own while we focus on our own country. Pakistan has literally gained nothing from getting involved in J&K but it has lost plenty.

 

[Last Monetarist]

He is completely helpless at the moment. He has no say on our foreign policy and our military needs to engage in Kashmir to maintain its influence on the country. As a result, even if Imran wanted to back out at this point, he doesn't have the power to do so.

Nevertheless, this is a terrific opportunity for the establishment to put the country over themselves for once. We have the chance to finally do what we should have done decades ago - let the people of J&K deal with India on their own while we focus on our own country. Pakistan has literally gained nothing from getting involved in J&K but it has lost plenty.

Of course, which is why I stated it's a philosophical question. I know most people that are vociferously advocating for military action right now would only be too eager to do a volte-face if our PM reverses course and dramatically changes the country's stance on Kashmir. It's never going to happen obviously.

 

[Gullycricket]

He is completely helpless at the moment. He has no say on our foreign policy and our military needs to engage in Kashmir to maintain its influence on the country. As a result, even if Imran wanted to back out at this point, he doesn't have the power to do so.

Nevertheless, this is a terrific opportunity for the establishment to put the country over themselves for once. We have the chance to finally do what we should have done decades ago - let the people of J&K deal with India on their own while we focus on our own country. Pakistan has literally gained nothing from getting involved in J&K but it has lost plenty.

Lanat hai on people like you.I wept seeing videos on BBC about kashmiris caged and not free to voice their opinion.You are all praise for India but selectively avoid talking about this.If we cant help them now we will regret this forever.

 

[Major]

Fighting a war is what India wants. Problem is as USA is pulling out, Pakistan army would have to be posted on that side.
No wonder they picked this timing to remove article 370, now Pakistan will have to have another group on the kashmir front aswell.

Very difficult situation Pakistan is in. Better if we appeal to UN. We cant fight a war till the Afghan mess is fixed.

 

[AdamM97]

Lanat hai on people like you.I wept seeing videos on BBC about kashmiris caged and not free to voice their opinion.You are all praise for India but selectively avoid talking about this.If we cant help them now we will regret this forever.

Tbh, we all do that as well. We deliberately choose to overlook China's treatment of Uyghurs because of CPEC and our alliance.

That's not to say that his admiration for India despite their treatment of Kashmiris is justified.

 

[Nostalgic]

Pakistan to Downgrade Diplomatic Ties, Suspend Trade with India

https://www.dawn.com/news/1498609/p...uspend-bilateral-trade-with-india-nsc-meeting

We should’ve cut off all diplomatic ties immediately, recalled our High Commissioner and dismissed their’s. This comes across as a half measure taken three days too late, but it’s a start.

 

[Nostalgic]

Once the dust settles a bit and the curfew lifts, our next step ought to be to make overtures to the “mainstream” Kashmiri parties. My friend [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] will disagree if he were here, but politics is the art of the possible, and we should look to harness the very opportunism that has made the mainstream Kashmiri parties restrict themselves to their brand of soft separatism and autonomy. Before the likes of the NC and the PDP reconcile themselves to whatever electoral politics will exist in the new political dynamic, convince them it would be more lucrative, for want of a better word, to throw in their lot with the separatists, and that they will have a future beyond their appeasement of the Indians.

While we’re at it, also make overtures to the Shi’a leadership in Kargil. There are reports they are unhappy at the bifurcation.

 

[Nostalgic]

Oh and finally, there’s a step we can all collectively take here, on PP: ignore the Indian contingent here, once and for all.

They’ve been out in full force for days now, and if you read between the lines, there’s an undercurrent of glee in the words of even the supposedly reasonable ones.

I had made it a point not to engage with the Indians here unless one of them quotes me or tags me, after which I would respond politely. I’ll stop doing even that, and would urge the rest of my compatriots to do likewise.

It won’t change anything in Kashmir of course, but maybe they would all go away. If wishes were horses and all that.

Start today. What say you?

 

[JaDed]

Oh and finally, there’s a step we can all collectively take here, on PP: ignore the Indian contingent here, once and for all.

They’ve been out in full force for days now, and if you read between the lines, there’s an undercurrent of glee in the words of even the supposedly reasonable ones.

I had made it a point not to engage with the Indians here unless one of them quotes me or tags me, after which I would respond politely. I’ll stop doing even that, and would urge the rest of my compatriots to do likewise.

It won’t change anything in Kashmir of course, but maybe they would all go away. If wishes were horses and all that.

Start today. What say you?

Surprising, nevertheless an easier way asking Mods to ban Indian IPs, and Indian flags also having a signature as a synopsis of your above post.

My assumption is the tag and quoting thing was for me, your point is understood.

 

[Mamoon]

Lanat hai on people like you.I wept seeing videos on BBC about kashmiris caged and not free to voice their opinion.You are all praise for India but selectively avoid talking about this.If we cant help them now we will regret this forever.

You can wish laanat on me as much as you like, but do you feel same way about Chinese Muslims? Do you weep for them?

Do you also feel strongly about Imran Khan answering that he is unaware of the treatment that goes on in the Xinjiang Uyghur camps?

Do you really think that the PM of Pakistan is “unaware”?

Do you feel that if we don’t help our Muslim brothers in China we will regret it forever? Why not?

We are all hypocrites and we all pick and choose sides.

Imran played ignorant because he cannot afford to criticize China because they hold us by our balls. Similarly, I believe we need to leave J&K alone because we need to come terms with the reality - India is not going to let go of J&K and as a bankrupt country, we cannot waste resources on a battle that we cannot win and is not ours to begin with.

The only thing we need to regret is our sunk cost over the last 70 years. We have bled and have wasted billions of resources and what has been the net gain? Absolutely nothing.

Our problem is that we are an emotional, gullible nation that thinks with its knees. After the 1947-48 war when the tribals won AJK for us (the same tribals that we have alienated over the decades), we should have done “sabar shukar” and let India handle J&K.

It would have avoided the 65, 71 and 99 wars where we gained nothing apart from a bogus “defense day” and celebrating martyrdom of the likes of Maj. Aziz Bhatti and Col. Sher Khan who lost their lives for the delusional misadventures of the military brass.

Instead of trying to steal territory from India, we should have taken better care of our eastern half that we meekly surrendered in 71 after committing a genocide that was worse than what India is doing J&K.

We have some nerve to sit on our high but midget horse and criticize India for their human rights violations in J&K after our unspeakable atrocities in East Pakistan.

Instead of focusing on J&K, we should look in the mirror and explore why in spite of having around 10 times less people than India, we have still managed to alienate about 15 million people in FATA and Balochistan.

Our history is littered with goof-ups, stupid decisions, emotional failures and blaming everyone but ourselves.

That is why today we are a bankrupt country that has put all its eggs in the basket of a cult leader suffering from messiah complex, we are a country that has poor relations with all its immediate neighbors and play host to some of the most wanted terrorists and terrorist organizations in the world including Osama.

Today, Bangladesh is doing better than Pakistan, and the fact that getting rid of our baggage was the best thing that has happened to them sums us up.

Isn’t it time for us to learn from our wretched and put an end to our madness? Do we really want to continue making the mistakes that we have made over the last 70 years?

What do you want Pakistan to do? What options do we have?

Do you think we can afford to wage a war with India? Wars are not fought by beggars on empty stomach.

It is time for us to think with our heads. If not, the next 72 years are going to a whole lot worse than the previous 72.

 

[Mamoon]

On a serious note, Defense Minister Pervez Khattak has just been spotted by the Indian soldiers about 150 meters from their forward bunkers on LoC.

Independent sources report that some of the soldiers have abandoned their positions.

 

[msaaim89]

Pakistan to Downgrade Diplomatic Ties, Suspend Trade with India

https://www.dawn.com/news/1498609/p...uspend-bilateral-trade-with-india-nsc-meeting

We should’ve cut off all diplomatic ties immediately, recalled our High Commissioner and dismissed their’s. This comes across as a half measure taken three days too late, but it’s a start.

Should have been done decades ago until this issue Kashmir issue is resolved completely.

 

[Varun]

Lanat hai on people like you.I wept seeing videos on BBC about kashmiris caged and not free to voice their opinion.You are all praise for India but selectively avoid talking about this.If we cant help them now we will regret this forever.

Really?

Go take a chill pill by flicking over to the sports channel. Kashmir isn't your fault, nor are you the solution.

 

[msaaim89]

Really?

Go take a chill pill by flicking over to the sports channel. Kashmir isn't your fault, nor are you the solution.

Are you telling others to turn a blind eye to Indian brutality against the Kashmiris?

 

[Varun]

Are you telling others to turn a blind eye to Indian brutality against the Kashmiris?

At the very least, stop weeping after watching the same old news from the same old place. God there are better things to do in any given day.

 

[Nostalgic]

Should have been done decades ago until this issue Kashmir issue is resolved completely.

A refrain we will hear from the Indians is this is now an “internal matter,” and at their most lenient, they will allow that this is something that can be discussed between the Indian state and the Kashmiris. We should do likewise: engage with the Kashmiris directly, and with all the Kashmiri stakeholders, not just those that were always pro-independence. A criticism one often hears from the Kashmiris themselves is that Pakistan and India fight and debate over it, but there’s a third party in this: the Kashmiris themselves, and this criticism is aimed not just at the Indians but at us too. I hate to sound calculated but the Indians have given us an opportunity to start afresh: mend fences with the elements in Kashmir that ought to be aligned with us but aren’t.

 

[Slog]

You can wish laanat on me as much as you like, but do you feel same way about Chinese Muslims? Do you weep for them?

Do you also feel strongly about Imran Khan answering that he is unaware of the treatment that goes on in the Xinjiang Uyghur camps?

Do you really think that the PM of Pakistan is “unaware”?

Do you feel that if we don’t help our Muslim brothers in China we will regret it forever? Why not?

We are all hypocrites and we all pick and choose sides.

Imran played ignorant because he cannot afford to criticize China because they hold us by our balls. Similarly, I believe we need to leave J&K alone because we need to come terms with the reality - India is not going to let go of J&K and as a bankrupt country, we cannot waste resources on a battle that we cannot win and is not ours to begin with.

The only thing we need to regret is our sunk cost over the last 70 years. We have bled and have wasted billions of resources and what has been the net gain? Absolutely nothing.

Our problem is that we are an emotional, gullible nation that thinks with its knees. After the 1947-48 war when the tribals won AJK for us (the same tribals that we have alienated over the decades), we should have done “sabar shukar” and let India handle J&K.

It would have avoided the 65, 71 and 99 wars where we gained nothing apart from a bogus “defense day” and celebrating martyrdom of the likes of Maj. Aziz Bhatti and Col. Sher Khan who lost their lives for the delusional misadventures of the military brass.

Instead of trying to steal territory from India, we should have taken better care of our eastern half that we meekly surrendered in 71 after committing a genocide that was worse than what India is doing J&K.

We have some nerve to sit on our high but midget horse and criticize India for their human rights violations in J&K after our unspeakable atrocities in East Pakistan.

Instead of focusing on J&K, we should look in the mirror and explore why in spite of having around 10 times less people than India, we have still managed to alienate about 15 million people in FATA and Balochistan.

Our history is littered with goof-ups, stupid decisions, emotional failures and blaming everyone but ourselves.

That is why today we are a bankrupt country that has put all its eggs in the basket of a cult leader suffering from messiah complex, we are a country that has poor relations with all its immediate neighbors and play host to some of the most wanted terrorists and terrorist organizations in the world including Osama.

Today, Bangladesh is doing better than Pakistan, and the fact that getting rid of our baggage was the best thing that has happened to them sums us up.

Isn’t it time for us to learn from our wretched and put an end to our madness? Do we really want to continue making the mistakes that we have made over the last 70 years?

What do you want Pakistan to do? What options do we have?

Do you think we can afford to wage a war with India? Wars are not fought by beggars on empty stomach.

It is time for us to think with our heads. If not, the next 72 years are going to a whole lot worse than the previous 72.

Do you really not understand the difference between Chinese Muslims and Kashmiri Muslims as far as a Pakistani is concerned. I’ve explained it earlier too.

This logic is always very weak.

Chinese Muslims are like Ugandan Muslims for us. We don’t have cultural and historical links with them and hence they will not have any emotional significance naturally

 

[Kianig89]

Ban these Anti Pakistan guys enough is enough

 

[xbronze]

Do you really not understand the difference between Chinese Muslims and Kashmiri Muslims as far as a Pakistani is concerned. I’ve explained it earlier too.

This logic is always very weak.

Chinese Muslims are like Ugandan Muslims for us. We don’t have cultural and historical links with them and hence they will not have any emotional significance naturally

Is that the reason that time and time again Pakistan opposes UN resolutions asking China to shut down its concentration camps for Uighur muslims?

 

[Mueez]

Ban these Anti Pakistan guys enough is enough

The question is would an Indian forum allow Pakistani posters abuse India and its people on their forum?

No.

 

[Mueez]

On a serious note, Defense Minister Pervez Khattak has just been spotted by the Indian soldiers about 150 meters from their forward bunkers on LoC.

Independent sources report that some of the soldiers have abandoned their positions.

What does this mean?

Is Pakistan planning something?

 

[xbronze]

A refrain we will hear from the Indians is this is now an “internal matter,” and at their most lenient, they will allow that this is something that can be discussed between the Indian state and the Kashmiris. We should do likewise: engage with the Kashmiris directly, and with all the Kashmiri stakeholders, not just those that were always pro-independence. A criticism one often hears from the Kashmiris themselves is that Pakistan and India fight and debate over it, but there’s a third party in this: the Kashmiris themselves, and this criticism is aimed not just at the Indians but at us too. I hate to sound calculated but the Indians have given us an opportunity to start afresh: mend fences with the elements in Kashmir that ought to be aligned with us but aren’t.

Friend, instead of wondering what Pakistan should do to capture Indian Kashmir now may be the time for you to make a strategy to keep Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

Now that Modi and Shah have successfully integrated Indian Kashmir, there are plans underway to re-integrate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir back into India.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Friend, instead of wondering what Pakistan should do to capture Indian Kashmir now may be the time for you to make a strategy to keep Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.

Now that Modi and Shah have successfully integrated Indian Kashmir, there are plans underway to re-integrate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir back into India.

Yep, you people tried to do something before some months and we served you with some fantastic tea. So we welcome you with open heart.

 

[Hermoine Green]

What does this mean?

Is Pakistan planning something?

Sarcastic post dude. He dislike Khattak alot

At least Parvez Khattak is better than this keyboard warrior who is licking boots of KSA.

 

[Mueez]

Sarcastic post dude. He dislike Khattak alot

At least Parvez Khattak is better than this keyboard warrior who is licking boots of KSA.

Oh well....

I can’t imagine a Pakistani who hates Pakistan this much.

Everything, bad or good, which is related to Pakistan is wrong.

 

[xbronze]

The question is would an Indian forum allow Pakistani posters abuse India and its people on their forum?

No.

I am an Indian poster and I respect this forum precisely for the quality of discourse on this forum and the freedom it allows for free exchange of ideas in a respectful manner.

There is a reason I do NOT ever participate in an Indian forum (be they sport or politics). They are no different from Indian TV news channels. Outright abusive, insulting, disrespectful, loud, and a largely meaningless shouting match that leaves me with a bad head ache.

I have to confess one thing, though I have locked horns with Pakistani posters on this forum, this forum has gradually made me more respectful of Pakistani folks and more understanding of their opinions/viewpoints (I am not saying I agree with them, but this forum has increased the respect I have in my heart for Pakistan and its People).

 

[Mueez]

I am an Indian poster and I respect this forum precisely for the quality of discourse on this forum and the freedom it allows for free exchange of ideas in a respectful manner.

There is a reason I do NOT ever participate in an Indian forum (be they sport or politics). They are no different from Indian TV news channels. Outright abusive, insulting, disrespectful, loud, and a largely meaningless shouting match that leaves me with a bad head ache.

I have to confess one thing, though I have locked horns with Pakistani posters on this forum, this forum has gradually made me more respectful of Pakistani folks and more understanding of their opinions/viewpoints (I am not saying I agree with them, but this forum has increased the respect I have in my heart for Pakistan and its People).

I may not agree with your post or opinion.

But it is good to see constructive criticism from the Indian side.

Keep on posting.

As this is how we will increase our knowledge about both countries.

 

[mon858]

We should declare Azad Kashmir as part of Pakistan on 14th August. Declare border as international border.
At least people on that side are in peace.
Then on other side there will likely be mass protests that we can let international community deal with by raising with them or India deal with Kashmiris themselves or civil war type situation which will hurt them.

 

[Candyman]

Yep, you people tried to do something before some months and we served you with some fantastic tea. So we welcome you with open heart.

Yes we tried to do something a few months back , and actually did something that took more than a month to cover up. So , we might have done a good job at doing "something".


And yes, we've served you an even fantastic tea in even larger quantities multiple times before. So , be content with that single "cup of tea".

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Make Gilgit Baltistan a province is the first step. India can have Ladakh. Lessen the dispute to only Jammu and Kashmir.

Second step is to see the reaction of the Kashmirs once the curfew is lifted.

Third step is to make sure to keep any support moral, and diplomatic, no support for militants.

 

[Mamoon]

Do you really not understand the difference between Chinese Muslims and Kashmiri Muslims as far as a Pakistani is concerned. I’ve explained it earlier too.

This logic is always very weak.

Chinese Muslims are like Ugandan Muslims for us. We don’t have cultural and historical links with them and hence they will not have any emotional significance naturally

Justifying why Pakistan is right to ignore the plight of Chinese Muslims is a separate topic. However, we should at least have the shame to not call Kashmir a humanitarian issue, because when you call yourself a humanitarian, you cannot be selective.

 

[last_knight]

When IK expressed his fears and warned of false-flag Pulwama-2, I knew he is going to build his narrative on this. Now he will continue to narrate this warning again and again and again untill everyone start accepting that these attacks are really staged.

He seems to be a fan of "Inception".
(An idea is like a virus. Resilient. Highly contagious. And even the smallest seed of an idea can grow. It can grow to define or destroy you.Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere).

Modi has given IK enough space to implant this idea. And I am sure IK will now narrate it so many times across the forums that this idea will grow every day and take hold.

 

[xbronze]

I may not agree with your post or opinion.

But it is good to see constructive criticism from the Indian side.

Keep on posting.

As this is how we will increase our knowledge about both countries.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

All the things are taking back this region to late 80s & 90s.

American exclusion from Afghanistan
increase of hindustani butchery in Kashmir
So Pakistan should do the same what they were doing in that period "Mujahideen" with different strategy. Suicide attack all over India.

 

[Birdman]

The best thing Pakistan can do is declare POK as Pakistan and accept LOC as international border. Once all this is settled both India and Pakistan should have allow Kashmirs to have freedom of movement between both sides. Hopefully both the third world countries will quit spending money on Military hardware to make the western countries rich but spend it on its populous and develop their infrastructure.
May be not in our lifetime, but in future I hope India and Pakistan will have borders like USA and Canada.

 

[Pakistanian]

The best thing Pakistan can do is declare POK as Pakistan and accept LOC as international border. Once all this is settled both India and Pakistan should have allow Kashmirs to have freedom of movement between both sides. Hopefully both the third world countries will quit spending money on Military hardware to make the western countries rich but spend it on its populous and develop their infrastructure.
May be not in our lifetime, but in future I hope India and Pakistan will have borders like USA and Canada.

No, Pakistan CAN NOT and should NOT impose any new measures on the people of Azad Kashmiri unless they've voted for a change. Most of them do not want to formalize the LoC or become a province of Pakistan yet, they prefer the current arrangement.

 

[mustang]

The best thing Pakistan can do is declare POK as Pakistan and accept LOC as international border. Once all this is settled both India and Pakistan should have allow Kashmirs to have freedom of movement between both sides. Hopefully both the third world countries will quit spending money on Military hardware to make the western countries rich but spend it on its populous and develop their infrastructure.
May be not in our lifetime, but in future I hope India and Pakistan will have borders like USA and Canada.

This will be a good thing to do but sadly does not seem like happening. Pakistan is already nudging their Kashmir's political process for accession with Pakistan. Might as well be open, welcome those people in as Pakistani citizens and declare it as international boundary. If it is like what Indian Kashmir seems to be, then that region also does not have inflow of external capital, without which you cannot have economic growth or knowledge capital for the people in Pakistan's Kashmir. All of those opportunities denied for generations of Pakistani Kashmiris for what? For a paper check mark on Pakistan's side that they are open to all options? Make them Pakistani citizens already and give them economic + education opportunities.

 

[Pakistanian]

This will be a good thing to do but sadly does not seem like happening. Pakistan is already nudging their Kashmir's political process for accession with Pakistan. Might as well be open, welcome those people in as Pakistani citizens and declare it as international boundary. If it is like what Indian Kashmir seems to be, then that region also does not have inflow of external capital, without which you cannot have economic growth or knowledge capital for the people in Pakistan's Kashmir. All of those opportunities denied for generations of Pakistani Kashmiris for what? For a paper check mark on Pakistan's side that they are open to all options? Make them Pakistani citizens already and give them economic + education opportunities.

Well Idk what you mean by "make them citizens" because they do have Pakistani passports it's just that being an autonomous state gives them more rights than being a province, for one outsiders are not allowed to buy land in Azad Kashmir and being small territory I'm sure they prefer that.

 

[mustang]

Well Idk what you mean by "make them citizens" because they do have Pakistani passports it's just that being an autonomous state gives them more rights than being a province, for one outsiders are not allowed to buy land in Azad Kashmir and being small territory I'm sure they prefer that.

My assumption is that it restricts external investments, not just outsiders buying houses. While this protects demographic integrity (which is a nebulous benefit in the long run), it has a seriously bad consequence of low economic development. If there are no external investments, there is no business growth, there is no education investment ... sort of a chain sequence. As a result economic growth grinds down, and education (and knowledge capital growth of an entire generation of youth) is all compromised.

At a high level, given the political realities in that region for 50+ years, governments should ask if it is worth it. Is it worth holding onto a demographic integrity for the sake of goodwill (even though political realities seem like they will bear no fruit) and thus compromise opportunities and growth for entire generations? It is not an easy answer but it probably has to be done.

 

[MenInG]

Has Pakistan done what they can using all the options they have at their disposal?

 

[Itachi]

Has Pakistan done what they can using all the options they have at their disposal?

I've gone through the thread but haven't seen a realistic option.

To be honest, I don't see Pakistan can do anything unless somehow usa/china/Russia one of them turns up for Pakistan. Going by the flow, all these countries are playing safe and giving diplomatic statements only.

Pakistan, on its own, do you think it has options? If yes then what are those?