What are your views about the Kashmir issue?

[UN talkz]

As far as i am concerned i want an independent Kashmir.... I dont want to be with India and not with Pakistan as well... but looking at the situations,current circumstances and stands of both IND & PAK on this issue, i think this solution is highly not possible in near future(atleast for next 2 decades)...
So a solution that is possible and can be taken and wont hurt the egos of both nations is OPEN BORDERS SOLUTION....
Borders should be thrown open and Indian part will be controlled by Indians authorities and Pak side by Pak authorities.... there should be only one govt in whole KASHMIR (IOK & POK)... a govt that shud hav a PM, a President and required ministries... Currency of both IND & PAK should work in KASHMIR or a seperate currency shud be issued...
And most important we shud hav our own Foriegn and Home Ministries...
Trade shud go on without any hiccups and hassles...
And we shud be allowed yo have our own representations at international events.... our own sports teams like Scotland and Ireland have...
A new Constitution shud be made that doesn't hurt sentiments of any community or religion.... People including Businessmen from IND & PAK shud not be allowed to buy land in KASHMIR but shud definitely be allowed to invest in KASHMIR and given land on lease which will have a clause in constitution...
These are my views.....
I hope u can add some more valuable information or ua views...

 

[Hornbill]

These things can't be done without eliminating LET, JM and Hizbul etc. If they are willing to surrender should be allowed, these groups will spoil any attempt to start peaceful negotiations.

 

[big_gamer007]

The status quo will remain unchanged to how it is currently.. That is the unfortunate reality.. Also government on either side won't agree to this and will give out the reason that opening borders will make cross border terrorism more..

 

[JaDed]

Its a political issue on both sides,not to forget even for the politicians within Kashmir, unless someone is ready to do a career suicide nothing is going to happen.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Kashmir should be given independence. That's it.

 

[UN talkz]

These things can't be done without eliminating LET, JM and Hizbul etc. If they are willing to surrender should be allowed, these groups will spoil any attempt to start peaceful negotiations.

The above mentioned outfits are nothing but a bundle of guys who work and are able to terrorize people only becoz some people want them to do so...
when vajpayee led central government initiated talks with HM... that was the most peaceful time of this century in Kashmir....
It just needs steps to be taken by both govts and by steps i mean some basic and simple measures not those bold steps and out of box things

 

[UN talkz]

Its a political issue on both sides,not to forget even for the politicians within Kashmir, unless someone is ready to do a career suicide nothing is going to happen.

Politicians in Kashmir are the main problem of this issue.... nobody has betrayed KASHMIRIS more than it's own politicians... not even central govt.
They shud be thrown out.... just corrupt and ready to sell everything for the sake of power even their own children
..

 

[Saeed]

Hold referendum and let the Kashmiris decide how they want to live. Pakistan or India should not dictate what to do with them.

 

[UN talkz]

The status quo will remain unchanged to how it is currently.. That is the unfortunate reality.. Also government on either side won't agree to this and will give out the reason that opening borders will make cross border terrorism more..

That might be a good excuse but that will actually curb this menace.... becoz it will involve both countries in a healthy trade..... the trade bw 2 countries right now through kashmir is nothing... it is actually a blame game where Ind blames Pak for sending money for funding terror and bringing drugs to Kashmir and vice versa...
Trade will make them forget everything for eg take the case of punjab... the trade through punjab goes on even during the worst times and actually never stops...

 

[UN talkz]

Hold referendum and let the Kashmiris decide how they want to live. Pakistan or India should not dictate what to do with them.

I don't know why anyone has a problem with referendum... whatever the results will be, the people then would be in no position to potest against anything as it would solely be their decision that would determine the fate....
But the referendum should and must have an option of freedom i.e independent KASHMIR

 

[Saeed]

I don't know why anyone has a problem with referendum... whatever the results will be, the people then would be in no position to potest against anything as it would solely be their decision that would determine the fate....
But the referendum should and must have an option of freedom i.e independent KASHMIR

Probably afraid of getting the "wrong" result because of referendum. Ageed, if there are only two options i.e. remain with India or join Pakistan then the referendum is rigged.

 

[UN talkz]

Probably afraid of getting the "wrong" result because of referendum. Ageed, if there are only two options i.e. remain with India or join Pakistan then the referendum is rigged.

Referendum is such a thing that cant be rigged in case of Kashmir.... if it is held it has to be held under UN and UN office will carry it widout any intervention of the 2 countries... and there will be 2-3 neutral countries who will be observing things and do negotiations bw India and Pakistan...

 

[Enigma_]

All I know is that justice will one day prevail.

 

[Madplayer]

I dont care about the results. Kashmiris might choose Pakistan or India or Independence. Doesnt matter. What matters is that they are given the power to decide for themselves. That is what they are fighting for primarily. To be the masters of their destiny.

Personally I dont see an independent Kashmir surviving purely due to the presence of big regional powers. It will become a puppet at the hands of any one power and "independence" will remain on paper somewhat like Afghanistan which has become a satellite of US and also takes orders from India. I would prefer Autonomy under Pakistan which i know will again be useless because in the end Pakistan will dictate terms but it will still be better because we share a closer bond with them.

Having said that, if the general population chooses India, i would gladly accept that as well because its the people who have decided it for themselves.

 

[Madplayer]

I don't know why anyone has a problem with referendum... whatever the results will be, the people then would be in no position to potest against anything as it would solely be their decision that would determine the fate....
But the referendum should and must have an option of freedom i.e independent KASHMIR

The issue is with India. They arent willing because they know only 1 winner will emerge out of a referendum which will be held in All of j&k including Azad Kashmir and gilgit Baltistan. 2 and a half districts of jammu and Leh in Ladakh will vote for India but they are numerically insignificant compared to the rest. Ladakh in particular is literally empty with scarce human population even though it is the largest province.

 

[LastManstanding]

I dont care about the results. Kashmiris might choose Pakistan or India or Independence. Doesnt matter. What matters is that they are given the power to decide for themselves. That is what they are fighting for primarily. To be the masters of their destiny.

Personally I dont see an independent Kashmir surviving purely due to the presence of big regional powers. It will become a puppet at the hands of any one power and "independence" will remain on paper somewhat like Afghanistan which has become a satellite of US and also takes orders from India. I would prefer Autonomy under Pakistan which i know will again be useless because in the end Pakistan will dictate terms but it will still be better because we share a closer bond with them.

Having said that, if the general population chooses India, i would gladly accept that as well because its the people who have decided it for themselves.

You mean you share a common religion with them.

 

[Hornbill]

The above mentioned outfits are nothing but a bundle of guys who work and are able to terrorize people only becoz some people want them to do so...
when vajpayee led central government initiated talks with HM... that was the most peaceful time of this century in Kashmir....
It just needs steps to be taken by both govts and by steps i mean some basic and simple measures not those bold steps and out of box things

Bundle of guys are enough to organize a attack like Mumbai, If that happens during peace talks everything will go back to the beginning.

 

[Pakistanian]

As far as i am concerned i want an independent Kashmir.... I dont want to be with India and not with Pakistan as well... but looking at the situations,current circumstances and stands of both IND & PAK on this issue, i think this solution is highly not possible in near future(atleast for next 2 decades)...
So a solution that is possible and can be taken and wont hurt the egos of both nations is OPEN BORDERS SOLUTION....
Borders should be thrown open and Indian part will be controlled by Indians authorities and Pak side by Pak authorities.... there should be only one govt in whole KASHMIR (IOK & POK)... a govt that shud hav a PM, a President and required ministries... Currency of both IND & PAK should work in KASHMIR or a seperate currency shud be issued...
And most important we shud hav our own Foriegn and Home Ministries...
Trade shud go on without any hiccups and hassles...
And we shud be allowed yo have our own representations at international events.... our own sports teams like Scotland and Ireland have...
A new Constitution shud be made that doesn't hurt sentiments of any community or religion.... People including Businessmen from IND & PAK shud not be allowed to buy land in KASHMIR but shud definitely be allowed to invest in KASHMIR and given land on lease which will have a clause in constitution...
These are my views.....
I hope u can add some more valuable information or ua views...

There isn't a "POK", the people in Azad Kashmir are pretty patriotic and a lot of them live in England, and identify as Pakistanis. They also a speak a language and follow a culture that is more similar to people in North Punjab and east Khyber Pakhtunkhwa than the valley. I do support Kashmiri independence and believe the valley should be it's own country but the valley is entirely in India, so it's actually India's call and there's nothing Pakistan can do about it.

 

[Pakistanian]

My suggestion to Kashmiris is to stop seeking help from third parties like the UN that are corrupt and could care less about Kashmir, the Kurds are such brave people that don't care about the UN or some possibly rigged referendum. Proud and brave ethnicities don't wait for foreign intervention or vote in a referendum, they make things happen.

 

[Pakistanian]

You mean you share a common religion with them.

There's geographical, historical, and cultural similarities.

 

[Pakistanian]

I dont care about the results. Kashmiris might choose Pakistan or India or Independence. Doesnt matter. What matters is that they are given the power to decide for themselves. That is what they are fighting for primarily. To be the masters of their destiny.

Personally I dont see an independent Kashmir surviving purely due to the presence of big regional powers. It will become a puppet at the hands of any one power and "independence" will remain on paper somewhat like Afghanistan which has become a satellite of US and also takes orders from India. I would prefer Autonomy under Pakistan which i know will again be useless because in the end Pakistan will dictate terms but it will still be better because we share a closer bond with them.

Having said that, if the general population chooses India, i would gladly accept that as well because its the people who have decided it for themselves.

Why wouldn't support a 2nd referendum if the first fails?

 

[Arham_PakFan]

There should be a referendum for the people on whether they want to join Pakistan,India or independence.Their choice should be respected.

 

[Madplayer]

You mean you share a common religion with them.

Not surprising from you who has a habit of speaking nonsense about Kashmiris. Your Communal mindset will never change.

Yes, among other many things we share a common religion too. Dont the various Indian states share common religion? Isnt common religion, among other things, a factor in maintaining unity of Indian states? Unfortunately you have failed to realize, or you dont want to accept, that its not a religious struggle but a purely political one which began in 1947 itself.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

I'm Kashmiri. Hold a referendum. Give three options if people want that.

Everyone bar a small few want freedom from India.

Then people will decide upon what they want to do. The only massive changes will be in the valley which in my opinion would end up wanting to be with Pakistan. That's my dream!

 

[Madplayer]

Why wouldn't support a 2nd referendum if the first fails?

Sorry i didnt get the question??

 

[UN talkz]

Bundle of guys are enough to organize a attack like Mumbai, If that happens during peace talks everything will go back to the beginning.

I was talking about the role of these organisations with respect to kashmir.... To organise something like Mumbai attacks is a different question and a very very scary one.... Such attacks are carried out becoz of large funding to these org. and a great support from intelligence agencies..... and as we see in most cases pre planned 6-7 months ago.......
If peace talks begin, these things will stop but only if there are some serious peace talks.... if it is that CHAI PE CHARCHA then these things will continue to happen with both countries blaming each other....
As far as HM is concerned Pakistan will be forced to neutralise them becoz of CPEC... China wants stability in POK it is an important part of CPEC Project....

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

I was talking about the role of these organisations with respect to kashmir.... To organise something like Mumbai attacks is a different question and a very very scary one.... Such attacks are carried out becoz of large funding to these org. and a great support from intelligence agencies..... and as we see in most cases pre planned 6-7 months ago.......
If peace talks begin, these things will stop but only if there are some serious peace talks.... if it is that CHAI PE CHARCHA then these things will continue to happen with both countries blaming each other....
As far as HM is concerned Pakistan will be forced to neutralise them becoz of CPEC... China wants stability in POK it is an important part of CPEC Project....

Try living in AJK before calling it POK. I'm disgusted.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

I was talking about the role of these organisations with respect to kashmir.... To organise something like Mumbai attacks is a different question and a very very scary one.... Such attacks are carried out becoz of large funding to these org. and a great support from intelligence agencies..... and as we see in most cases pre planned 6-7 months ago.......
If peace talks begin, these things will stop but only if there are some serious peace talks.... if it is that CHAI PE CHARCHA then these things will continue to happen with both countries blaming each other....
As far as HM is concerned Pakistan will be forced to neutralise them becoz of CPEC... China wants stability in POK it is an important part of CPEC Project....

Are you willing to accept a referendum result where Pakistan wins?

All about right to self-determination. Then we can discuss what to do.

 

[UN talkz]

I dont care about the results. Kashmiris might choose Pakistan or India or Independence. Doesnt matter. What matters is that they are given the power to decide for themselves. That is what they are fighting for primarily. To be the masters of their destiny.

Personally I dont see an independent Kashmir surviving purely due to the presence of big regional powers. It will become a puppet at the hands of any one power and "independence" will remain on paper somewhat like Afghanistan which has become a satellite of US and also takes orders from India. I would prefer Autonomy under Pakistan which i know will again be useless because in the end Pakistan will dictate terms but it will still be better because we share a closer bond with them.

Having said that, if the general population chooses India, i would gladly accept that as well because its the people who have decided it for themselves.

I want referendum with an option of INDEPENDENT KASHMIR otherwise i would want both the countries including kashmiris to negotiate on this issue.... Why after decades of struggle we will not be able to choose what we want (independece)...
Going with Pakistan under autonomy would be equal to slavery..... i dont find any better option than MUSHARAF'S FOUR POINT FORMULA of which OPEN BORDERS SYSTEM is a part....

 

[PakLFC]

Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris so whatever they want should be granted. Until then India in particular will continue to suffer and bleed.This is what I would want if I were a Kashmiri. No one is listening when India keeps on blaming Pakistan. All three options should be made available to the Kashmiris , in the event of complete independence their will be consequences for them as well.

 

[UN talkz]

There isn't a "POK", the people in Azad Kashmir are pretty patriotic and a lot of them live in England, and identify as Pakistanis. They also a speak a language and follow a culture that is more similar to people in North Punjab and east Khyber Pakhtunkhwa than the valley. I do support Kashmiri independence and believe the valley should be it's own country but the valley is entirely in India, so it's actually India's call and there's nothing Pakistan can do about it.

It is POK & IOK.... it all belongs to kashmiris and nobody else..... as far as ua culture point is concerned.... chenab valley is 120 kms away from capital Srinagar but has a completely different culture from us... cultures differ.... people from valley who have settled abroad as also identified as Indians... Pakistan has got half of kashmir and it has to give it back including GB if we get freedom or result of referendum goes in favour of india...

 

[UN talkz]

My suggestion to Kashmiris is to stop seeking help from third parties like the UN that are corrupt and could care less about Kashmir, the Kurds are such brave people that don't care about the UN or some possibly rigged referendum. Proud and brave ethnicities don't wait for foreign intervention or vote in a referendum, they make things happen.

We have lost 600000 people while fighting for this cause and everyday the no. is just increasing.....also 20000 people have disappeared, thousands of women raped and thousands of youth rotting in jails i dont know what u mean by proud and brave people but it really is a poor comment...

 

[UN talkz]

Why wouldn't support a 2nd referendum if the first fails?

In what manner can it fail

 

[UN talkz]

Not surprising from you who has a habit of speaking nonsense about Kashmiris. Your Communal mindset will never change.

Yes, among other many things we share a common religion too. Dont the various Indian states share common religion? Isnt common religion, among other things, a factor in maintaining unity of Indian states? Unfortunately you have failed to realize, or you dont want to accept, that its not a religious struggle but a purely political one which began in 1947 itself.

Ua are factually right except that this struggle began in 1947.... we have been fighting from a long time first against Afghani aggression and then DOGRA aggression.... 1931 rather than 1947 was a turning point in our struggle becoz of what happened outside mosque in Hawal area of Srinagar.... when 22 people completed a single azaan becoz one after one was killed....

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Two stages for a referendum:-

1)India must agree (because otherwise their constitution says to "reclaim" AJK).
2)then there's a referendum.

pointless debating what the solution would be in a referendum. Get there first. Three options is appropriate.

Kashmir will not vote for India. End of.

 

[UN talkz]

I'm Kashmiri. Hold a referendum. Give three options if people want that.

Everyone bar a small few want freedom from India.

Then people will decide upon what they want to do. The only massive changes will be in the valley which in my opinion would end up wanting to be with Pakistan. That's my dream!

The ideology of merging with Pakistan was had very much support during the 90's insurgency but today it is all about independence i.e. an independent kashmir... when u ask any rebel today as to why does he chant Pakistani slogans..... the answer will be simple :- " I don't want Kashmir to merge with them but this thing irritates India.... and i will do anything that irritates them".... it is different to what it used to be during 90's...
today 80% Kashmiris want independence and when i say Kashmiris it doesn't mean only Muslims.... it means all people including Sikhs and some Kashmiri Pandits as well....

 

[UN talkz]

Try living in AJK before calling it POK. I'm disgusted.

It is POK doesn't matter what u say..... Try living in Jammu.... u will be killed even if u talk something against India... and that is a part of Kashmir as well.... And Jammu has a bigger equal to POK or AJK....
It is a DISPUTED TERRITORY and as i said earlier it belongs to Kashmiris and nobody else...

 

[UN talkz]

Are you willing to accept a referendum result where Pakistan wins?

All about right to self-determination. Then we can discuss what to do.

We are ready if people choose that as much as we are ready uf people choose INDIA.... but our primary motive is INDEPENDENCE....

 

[TQ89]

You think the politicians gonna let them go & the respective armed forces of both countries are actually gonna agree to referendum?

Aren't the armed forces the one responsible for creating this 60 year old conflict by acting on its own in 1948 & time again using it as launchpad for further wars

 

[UN talkz]

Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris so whatever they want should be granted. Until then India in particular will continue to suffer and bleed.This is what I would want if I were a Kashmiri. No one is listening when India keeps on blaming Pakistan. All three options should be made available to the Kashmiris , in the event of complete independence their will be consequences for them as well.

Agree with ua point.... every new nation has to struggle during early days and we wont be amy different.... Nobody at the time of partition had thought that INDIA & PAKISTAN would survive especially with large populations and very very limited resources at that time... but both of them have are great regional powers...

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

UN Resolutions should be implemented in letter and spirit but establishments don't want it because they will get weak if dispute is solved.

 

[UN talkz]

Two stages for a referendum:-

1)India must agree (because otherwise their constitution says to "reclaim" AJK).
2)then there's a referendum.

pointless debating what the solution would be in a referendum. Get there first. Three options is appropriate.

Kashmir will not vote for India. End of.

There constitution doesn't say it... it is a wrong perception..... there constitution says giving right to self-determination to kashmiris i.e. referendum.... it is some(actually a good no. of people) of those patriots who say such things... Reclaiming POK

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

There constitution doesn't say it... it is a wrong perception..... there constitution says giving right to self-determination to kashmiris i.e. referendum.... it is some(actually a good no. of people) of those patriots who say such things... Reclaiming POK

What u want ? Kash can't survive alone. U want POK too ? COK too ?

 

[UN talkz]

It is POK doesn't matter what u say..... Try living in Jammu.... u will be killed even if u talk something against India... and that is a part of Kashmir as well.... And Jammu has a bigger equal to POK or AJK....
It is a DISPUTED TERRITORY and as i said earlier it belongs to Kashmiris and nobody else...

* population equal to POK or AJK.

 

[UN talkz]

What u want ? Kash can't survive alone. U want POK too ? COK too ?

What makes u think that we can't survive alone.... we are actually surviving alone with little or no help from indian authorities.... nobody at the time of partition had thought that PAKISTAN would survive this long but they have and survived better than most peoples expectations
..... COK is a gone thing becoz of negligence of India and Pakistan... and yes in independent kashmir i want POK too.

 

[Savak]

Pretty Simple actually. Kashmir belongs to Pakistan. End off.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

There constitution doesn't say it... it is a wrong perception..... there constitution says giving right to self-determination to kashmiris i.e. referendum.... it is some(actually a good no. of people) of those patriots who say such things... Reclaiming POK

They don't want self determination but still want to reclaim.

I must admit reading your posts (and a few on Kashmir), I think we are being hijacked by trolls.

Everyone bar India wants self determination but your behaviour is rather odd. Rather go to sleep than talk aimlessly with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

You think the politicians gonna let them go & the respective armed forces of both countries are actually gonna agree to referendum?

Aren't the armed forces the one responsible for creating this 60 year old conflict by acting on its own in 1948 & time again using it as launchpad for further wars

Pak and the Kashmiri people agree to it. India is the only blockade

 

[PakLFC]

Agree with ua point.... every new nation has to struggle during early days and we wont be amy different.... Nobody at the time of partition had thought that INDIA & PAKISTAN would survive especially with large populations and very very limited resources at that time... but both of them have are great regional powers...

Actually it was Pak being the much smaller nation that most thought would not survive. Nehru or someone like that even predicted that Pak would beg to become part of India within six months after independence. I am happy to let Kashmir go if that is want Kashmiris want but you should never trust the Bharatis at all. Pak soldiers will not intervene if afterwards India invades the entire valley including what is Azaad Kashmir today. Kashmiris living in Pakistan will also be treated as foreigners or asked to leave after you get independence.

 

[hussain123]

I dont care about the results. Kashmiris might choose Pakistan or India or Independence. Doesnt matter. What matters is that they are given the power to decide for themselves. That is what they are fighting for primarily. To be the masters of their destiny.

Personally I dont see an independent Kashmir surviving purely due to the presence of big regional powers. It will become a puppet at the hands of any one power and "independence" will remain on paper somewhat like Afghanistan which has become a satellite of US and also takes orders from India. I would prefer Autonomy under Pakistan which i know will again be useless because in the end Pakistan will dictate terms but it will still be better because we share a closer bond with them.

Having said that, if the general population chooses India, i would gladly accept that as well because its the people who have decided it for themselves.

Why cannot kashmir survive as an independent entity??there are countries like nepal,bhutan,mongolia etc that have survived as sovereign states without much meddling from power that be.it may act as a vassal state at times but that is still massively different from beng an autonomous region within a country.in case of jandk even with residual autonomy intact sheikh abdullah was kept in doghouse for 22 years.seems decades of brutal military repression has made kashmiris lose confidence in the scope of possibilities,be kashmir independent.

 

[hussain123]

You mean you share a common religion with them.

Partly religion.but majorly cultural,geographic,ethnic and emotional.there are lakhs of ethnic kashmiris settled in punjab.infact the only natural connection that kashmir had with the rest of the world was through silk route that is now part of pakistan.and pakistan is the only country that has supported kashmiris since 1947 politically,diplomatically and even military as in 1965 war sentiment towards has only grown.the thing that kashmir makes even a flutter in international circles owes much to pakistan.if not for pakistan kashmiris long back would have been nailed to submission by india.

 

[Square Drive]

They are Pakistanis.

 

[Madplayer]

I want referendum with an option of INDEPENDENT KASHMIR otherwise i would want both the countries including kashmiris to negotiate on this issue.... Why after decades of struggle we will not be able to choose what we want (independece)...
Going with Pakistan under autonomy would be equal to slavery..... i dont find any better option than MUSHARAF'S FOUR POINT FORMULA of which OPEN BORDERS SYSTEM is a part....

Who told you that Kashmiris want independence? Kashmiris have never wanted independence historically. You can ask anyone from the previous generation. The primary goal was always to get the right to self determination and join Pakistan. The demand of independence among certain factions is only a recent phenomenon especially among young kids.

Imo, independence would be disastrous for Kashmiri people. We have too many hardline factions which have emerged during the freedom struggle. They will be impossible to control on our own. We wont have enough muscle to do it. India with all its military might has failed to control them.

Also we are land locked on all sides which is a massive disadvantage. We can be blocked by china or India or even Pakistan at any serious disagreement with them. Economically, i know, we have enough to survive and be prosperous but thats not the be all end all for a sovereign state to function.

 

[Madplayer]

There constitution doesn't say it... it is a wrong perception..... there constitution says giving right to self-determination to kashmiris i.e. referendum.... it is some(actually a good no. of people) of those patriots who say such things... Reclaiming POK

From your posts i can safely say that You need to do a lot of reading on this issue.

Indian constitution has no provision for secession. Thats why they keep telling us that they are willing to talk only within the framework of their constitution. On the other hand kashmiris demand an open ended dialogue without restrictions because thats where the UN resolutions come in.

 

[Madplayer]

Why cannot kashmir survive as an independent entity??there are countries like nepal,bhutan,mongolia etc that have survived as sovereign states without much meddling from power that be.it may act as a vassal state at times but that is still massively different from beng an autonomous region within a country.in case of jandk even with residual autonomy intact sheikh abdullah was kept in doghouse for 22 years.seems decades of brutal military repression has made kashmiris lose confidence in the scope of possibilities,be kashmir independent.

I have enumerated the reasons in my reply to uman naq in the above post. Its not about losing confidence, its about being realistic.

 

[Madplayer]

Ua are factually right except that this struggle began in 1947.... we have been fighting from a long time first against Afghani aggression and then DOGRA aggression.... 1931 rather than 1947 was a turning point in our struggle becoz of what happened outside mosque in Hawal area of Srinagar.... when 22 people completed a single azaan becoz one after one was killed....

By that logic we have been fighting since 1586 when mughals occupied Kashmir.

I'm only considering the time since the partition took place. Before that we had a ruler of our own, good or bad is another question.

 

[Madplayer]

UN Resolutions should be implemented in letter and spirit but establishments don't want it because they will get weak if dispute is solved.

I seriously doubt the intentions of army establishments on both sides as well. They dont want the issue to be solved thats why they deliberately keep tensions high at borders so that they can have an excuse that talks cant go hand in hand with ceasefire violations and militancy.

 

[LastManstanding]

Not surprising from you who has a habit of speaking nonsense about Kashmiris. Your Communal mindset will never change.

Yes, among other many things we share a common religion too. Dont the various Indian states share common religion? Isnt common religion, among other things, a factor in maintaining unity of Indian states? Unfortunately you have failed to realize, or you dont want to accept, that its not a religious struggle but a purely political one which began in 1947 itself.

Can you please quote any of my previous post which shows my communal mindset? Browsing through 2000 odd posts shouldn't be a big task, most of which are on cricket anyways.

You said you would prefer joining Pakistan though you know it would be useless. How will it be different from the status quo?

Aren't Abdullhas and Muftis kashmiris who are representing you? What do you want freedom from? India's Constitution?

And what happens to the Shia Muslims once you join Pakistan or you get Independence? Do they suffer the same fate as kashmiri pundits?

I guess you are Sunni Muslim who has more affinity towards Pakistan and want to join them, which is not wrong but please don't try to paint the religious struggle as political.

 

[hussain123]

I have enumerated the reasons in my reply to uman naq in the above post. Its not about losing confidence, its about being realistic.

I think you have two points here.first you say about hardline or those political gangs that emerge out of a conflict but that is more of societal issue and are empowered by all sides resolution of a conflict takes those hoods out of context coz they exist till the comflict ensues.secondly being landlocked won't be a big issue for a tiny country like us (if it comes about).there are many European landlocked countries like switerland doing well for themselves.and there are international conventions in place,no one can bar free movement of trade and ppl of a country just for the heck of it.

 

[hussain123]

Can you please quote any of my previous post which shows my communal mindset? Browsing through 2000 odd posts shouldn't be a big task, most of which are on cricket anyways.

You said you would prefer joining Pakistan though you know it would be useless. How will it be different from the status quo?

Aren't Abdullhas and Muftis kashmiris who are representing you? What do you want freedom from? India's Constitution?

And what happens to the Shia Muslims once you join Pakistan or you get Independence? Do they suffer the same fate as kashmiri pundits?

I guess you are Sunni Muslim who has more affinity towards Pakistan and want to join them, which is not wrong but please don't try to paint the religious struggle as political.

Propaganda corrupts even the most well meaning souls and seems i can smell some of it here.just a month ago there were parliamentary elections in kashmir and the lowest voting percentage was recorded from shias dominated areas.shias may not like pakistan much but they are fierce pro independence seekers.the most vocal voices for k independence have been o shias like agha shahid ali,mirza waheed etc.don't go by what your media says.for so long they have fed you nothing but lies.

 

[Madplayer]

Can you please quote any of my previous post which shows my communal mindset? Browsing through 2000 odd posts shouldn't be a big task, most of which are on cricket anyways.

I dont have to.

You said you would prefer joining Pakistan though you know it would be useless. How will it be different from the status quo?

I said autonomy will be useless because it will be only for name. Joining Pak wont be useless for various socio-political reasons.

Aren't Abdullhas and Muftis kashmiris who are representing you? What do you want freedom from? India's Constitution?

No they dont represent us anymore. They fooled people who put faith in them throughout the history just to get political power for their families. We want freedom to decide for ourselves. Dont talk like its a recent thing. We have wanted this since partition took place.

And what happens to the Shia Muslims once you join Pakistan or you get Independence? Do they suffer the same fate as kashmiri pundits?

Shias form 6% of muslim population in Kashmir and most of them dont want to stay with India or Pakistan. They want indeoendence. Its a myth propagated by Indians that Shias love India. And No they wont suffer the fate of Pandits because the new state machinery wont throw them out and use them to defame the locals.

I guess you are Sunni Muslim who has more affinity towards Pakistan and want to join them, which is not wrong but please don't try to paint the religious struggle as political.

You are free to guess what you want. You are a typical Indian who has been fed propaganda by his media over the years and has been conditioned to believe that everything Kashmiris do is along religious lines. Truth is, it never was about religion. Religion does play a part, but to make it central is what an Indian would want to do. If I had an option to join kashmir with any other non-muslim prosperous country (like UK, US)other than India or Pakistan, i would do that because that would be in the interest of Kashmiris.

 

[Madplayer]

I think you have two points here.first you say about hardline or those political gangs that emerge out of a conflict but that is more of societal issue and are empowered by all sides resolution of a conflict takes those hoods out of context coz they exist till the comflict ensues.secondly being landlocked won't be a big issue for a tiny country like us (if it comes about).there are many European landlocked countries like switerland doing well for themselves.and there are international conventions in place,no one can bar free movement of trade and ppl of a country just for the heck of it.

I think you are being too utopian here to be very honest. We cant wish away the militant factions after independence. Power corrupts. When Indian army would leave, it will create a power vacuum and these factions would come in to fill it and that could be disastrous for the civilian populace. To think that they will simply put down arms after freedom is achieved is very naive. They will obviously work to further their agendas of opposing a secular set up. Also being landlocked was just an example of our disadvantages. Intl. conventions remain on paper when it comes to conflicts. Our part of the world isnt liberal like the europeans and on ground the reality is always different. The threat of china looms over us as well who have an eye on parts of Ladakh.

 

[LastManstanding]

I dont have to.

Since you came up with the ad hominem attack, I thought you would want to back it up with examples.

I said autonomy will be useless because it will be only for name. Joining Pak wont be useless for various socio-political reasons.

Care to list few socio political reasons.

No they dont represent us anymore. They fooled people who put faith in them throughout the history just to get political power for their families. We want freedom to decide for ourselves. Dont talk like its a recent thing. We have wanted this since partition took place.

Isn't that what the political parties all over the world do? What makes you think hurriyat or any other political party that comes up would be any different?

Shias form 6% of muslim population in Kashmir and most of them dont want to stay with India or Pakistan. They want indeoendence. Its a myth propagated by Indians that Shias love India. And No they wont suffer the fate of Pandits because the new state machinery wont throw them out and use them to defame the locals.

Ahh the good old Jagmohan conspiracy theory. Somehow pundits I have met in real life have a different story to tell.

You are free to guess what you want. You are a typical Indian who has been fed propaganda by his media over the years and has been conditioned to believe that everything Kashmiris do is along religious lines. Truth is, it never was about religion. Religion does play a part, but to make it central is what an Indian would want to do. If I had an option to join kashmir with any other non-muslim prosperous country (like UK, US)other than India or Pakistan, i would do that because that would be in the interest of Kashmiris.

Muslims who didn't want to live under Hindu majority India have no problem living under Christians in us or uk. Doesn't mean that religion wasn't the driving force in partition in 1947.

 

[UN talkz]

From your posts i can safely say that You need to do a lot of reading on this issue.

Indian constitution has no provision for secession. Thats why they keep telling us that they are willing to talk only within the framework of their constitution. On the other hand kashmiris demand an open ended dialogue without restrictions because thats where the UN resolutions come in.

The constitution of JK clearly states that it is an accession with India and not merging..... We know our constitution has been eroded a lot but UN resolutions can't be eroded.... they still say the same thing...
As far as independence is concerned i said it in earlier post that during 90's they was a mass emotion of merging with Pakistan.... but current situation is nothing like that...... The slogan " Hum kyaa chahtey AZAADI" was used only in 2008....... U can talk to rebels and street fighters and know what they are fighting for...... freedom or pakistan... and if referendum is held with two options of IND & PAK, then yes I do see people going with Pakistan for reasons known to all.

 

[Madplayer]

Since you came up with the ad hominem attack, I thought you would want to back it up with examples.

It was nothing more than an outburst. Forgive me for that please. It was tasteless.

Care to list few socio political reasons.

For social and political stability of the state, it is necessary that the people accept their rulers as legitimate. India has not been able to achieve that status because it took over on dubious grounds without the consent of people.

Isn't that what the political parties all over the world do? What makes you think hurriyat or any other political party that comes up would be any different?

Abdullahs sold Kashmir to India for political power. Thats a crime of a larger magnitude. Thats betraying the people by enslaving them. Once a referendum takes place and people decide what they want, i dont care how corrupt the political parties become because that would be an internal issue.

Ahh the good old Jagmohan conspiracy theory. Somehow pundits I have met in real life have a different story to tell.

You expect Pandits living in India to tell you what actually happened and lose your sympathy? What would they tell you? No seriously, you expect them to tell you simple facts that it was the government that provided them with vehicles to leave Kashmir? The govt. which should have assured them of protection if it didnt have malicious intentions.

Muslims who didn't want to live under Hindu majority India have no problem living under Christians in us or uk. Doesn't mean that religion wasn't the driving force in partition in 1947.

So one set of non-muslim rulers (christians) is okay but another set of non-muslim rulers (hindus) is not okay for Kashmiris? Maybe just maybe it has nothing to do with India being hindu and only to do with Kashmir being Independent before partition and India taking over without the consent of people?

We arent the extremist muslims you keep hearing about in news. Our people carry out businesses during Amarnath yatra, young boys carry pilgrims on their shoulders to the cave. Hinduism haters wont do that. Being an outsider, You dont know the Kashmiri pysche so its pointless for me to try to convince you.

 

[UN talkz]

They don't want self determination but still want to reclaim.

I must admit reading your posts (and a few on Kashmir), I think we are being hijacked by trolls.

Everyone bar India wants self determination but your behaviour is rather odd. Rather go to sleep than talk aimlessly with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

As the name of the name of thread says... I am talking about my own views and also the views of hundreds and thousands of people whom i know or with whom i talked about this issue.....
The posters here want me to say that Kashmir belongs to Pakistan and that is the only option.... well that definitely is ua own view and i dont agree with that view which is factually incorrect as well.... Posters saying that we cant survive alone must know that same was being said about their country as well some 70 years ago.

 

[UN talkz]

Why cannot kashmir survive as an independent entity??there are countries like nepal,bhutan,mongolia etc that have survived as sovereign states without much meddling from power that be.it may act as a vassal state at times but that is still massively different from beng an autonomous region within a country.in case of jandk even with residual autonomy intact sheikh abdullah was kept in doghouse for 22 years.seems decades of brutal military repression has made kashmiris lose confidence in the scope of possibilities,be kashmir independent.

It is about self belief and guys here lack that.....
I am pretty much confident that we as a nation can not only survive but thrive..

 

[Madplayer]

The constitution of JK clearly states that it is an accession with India and not merging..... We know our constitution has been eroded a lot but UN resolutions can't be eroded.... they still say the same thing...
As far as independence is concerned i said it in earlier post that during 90's they was a mass emotion of merging with Pakistan.... but current situation is nothing like that...... The slogan " Hum kyaa chahtey AZAADI" was used only in 2008....... U can talk to rebels and street fighters and know what they are fighting for...... freedom or pakistan... and if referendum is held with two options of IND & PAK, then yes I do see people going with Pakistan for reasons known to all.

Yes it didnt merge with the union of India.

About Independence, we really wouldnt know unless a plebiscite takes place. People fighting on ground are only a fraction of the population. Yes the sentiment of independence has grown because of mistakes of Pakistan especially after nawaz sharief in Kargil, but we really dont know how widespread it is.

I personally wanted independence when i was around 15. But since then i have understood that it wont be in our interest. I could be wrong but hey, my opinion.

 

[UN talkz]

Partly religion.but majorly cultural,geographic,ethnic and emotional.there are lakhs of ethnic kashmiris settled in punjab.infact the only natural connection that kashmir had with the rest of the world was through silk route that is now part of pakistan.and pakistan is the only country that has supported kashmiris since 1947 politically,diplomatically and even military as in 1965 war sentiment towards has only grown.the thing that kashmir makes even a flutter in international circles owes much to pakistan.if not for pakistan kashmiris long back would have been nailed to submission by india.

Pakistan's stand on Kashmir is strong and has continued since decades and there is no doubt about that..... but will they be ready to see Kashmir as an independent country...

 

[Madplayer]

It is about self belief and guys here lack that.....
I am pretty much confident that we as a nation can not only survive but thrive..

This isnt a little game where chances could be taken blindly. Its about the future of millions of people.

 

[Hornbill]

Its a political issue on both sides,not to forget even for the politicians within Kashmir, unless someone is ready to do a career suicide nothing is going to happen.

Politicians have the habit of ignoring the demands of people belonging to smaller regions, If people of Jammu and Ladakh starts following the path of kashmiris their attitude will change, now they are saying things like kashmir don't even constitutes 20% of J&K and within kashmir south kashmir is the only troubled region.

 

[UN talkz]

Can you please quote any of my previous post which shows my communal mindset? Browsing through 2000 odd posts shouldn't be a big task, most of which are on cricket anyways.

You said you would prefer joining Pakistan though you know it would be useless. How will it be different from the status quo?

Aren't Abdullhas and Muftis kashmiris who are representing you? What do you want freedom from? India's Constitution?

And what happens to the Shia Muslims once you join Pakistan or you get Independence? Do they suffer the same fate as kashmiri pundits?

I guess you are Sunni Muslim who has more affinity towards Pakistan and want to join them, which is not wrong but please don't try to paint the religious struggle as political.

This isn't a religious struggle and dont defame this pious struggle by giving it a name of religious struggle

 

[LastManstanding]

You expect Pandits living in India to tell you what actually happened and lose your sympathy? What would they tell you? No seriously, you expect them to tell you simple facts that it was the government that provided them with vehicles to leave Kashmir? The govt. which should have assured them of protection if it didnt have malicious intentions.


We arent the extremist muslims you keep hearing about in news. Our people carry out businesses during Amarnath yatra, young boys carry pilgrims on their shoulders to the cave. Hinduism haters wont do that. Being an outsider, You dont know the Kashmiri pysche so its pointless for me to try to convince you.

Do you see the irony above? You want us to believe that every Kashmiri isn't an extremist ( which most of the indians don't believe anyways) and yet you have no hesitation in painting all the indians with the same brush. These Kashmiri pundits have been forced to live in refugee camp for so many years, they have been driven away from their homes, do you really think whether the perpetrators were Kashmiri Muslims or the state government would change our perception of them?

Isn't there a possibility that they are telling the truth and instead you have been brain washed?

 

[Madplayer]

Do you see the irony above? You want us to believe that every Kashmiri isn't an extremist ( which most of the indians don't believe anyways) and yet you have no hesitation in painting all the indians with the same brush. These Kashmiri pundits have been forced to live in refugee camp for so many years, they have been driven away from their homes, do you really think whether the perpetrators were Kashmiri Muslims or the state government would change our perception of them?

I think i didnt make myself clear there. Ofcourse it wont change your perception completely but some people feel more sympathetic towards them when they are told that pandits were ousted by muslims on religious grounds. I hope you are realistic enough to acknowledge that the sympathy wont be the same if Indians are told that the state was responsible for everything. That doesnt make Indians bad in any way, it just changes the manner and magnitude of their sympathy.

Isn't there a possibility that they are telling the truth and instead you have been brain washed?

No there isnt a possibility of it i'm afraid because there is way too many circumstantial evidences which are supplemented by letters from Kashmiri pandit leaders of that time which make everything quite clear. Terms like genocide, mass rapes of pandits, exodus on religious grounds are mostly a myth and are grossly exaggerated by Indian media.

Its a shame really that we are playing the blame game here. We should feel the pain of pandits, no matter what the reason was for them leaving the valley. Efforts should be made to bring them back and i mean serious efforts to incorporate them back in their own society, not just efforts for political point scoring.

 

[UN talkz]

Who told you that Kashmiris want independence? Kashmiris have never wanted independence historically. You can ask anyone from the previous generation. The primary goal was always to get the right to self determination and join Pakistan. The demand of independence among certain factions is only a recent phenomenon especially among young kids.

Imo, independence would be disastrous for Kashmiri people. We have too many hardline factions which have emerged during the freedom struggle. They will be impossible to control on our own. We wont have enough muscle to do it. India with all its military might has failed to control them.

Also we are land locked on all sides which is a massive disadvantage. We can be blocked by china or India or even Pakistan at any serious disagreement with them. Economically, i know, we have enough to survive and be prosperous but thats not the be all end all for a sovereign state to function.

I can't understand why u and me aren't on the same page.....
But let's talk about it in detail....
During the late 80's or 90's various organisations came into being namely:--
MUF
JEI
ALL PARTY HURRIYAT CONFERENCE
KLF
HM
and some other organisations as well...
All the organisations had the same ideology and the same official stance that was Merging with Pakistan
When KLF chief Yasin Malik(who was chairman of IOK) surrendered, he as well as others most prominently Amanatullah Khan( from POK) changed the name of his organisation from KLF to JKLF(all parts of kashmir)...
They officially have a pact written and changed their official stance to fight for Independent Kashmir through non violent methods.....
During the 90's HURRIYAT split into no. of factions.... and each faction kept changing its stance from merging with Pakistan to Independent kashmir except Geelani led HURRIYAT G....
After the turn of century APHC also changed its stance but Geelani continued his own stance of merging with Pakistan and he still stands by it...
although since last decade Geelani has softened his stance and he now demands demilitarisation first and then talks, as earlier when he didn't accept anything less than Pakistan but he hasn't officially changed his stance..... Other organisations gradually lost their charm and followers of their ideology...
Apart from this SIKH organisations APSCC and DAL KHALSA are also for independence... A smaller organisation of Kashmiri Pandits also demand Independence although large no. of them want to stay with India...
And most importantly the stance of people has changed that has forced the aforementioned organisations to change their stance....
As far as HM is concerned they simply cannot change their stance becoz they have survived so long only becoz of Pakistan and that is understood...
But in 2004 HM had also agreed on MUSHARAF'S FOUR POINT FORMULA.... then Geelani was the only person who didn't accept the MUSHARAF formula and henceforth things couldn't be solved....
Both Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh have said that Four Point Formula would have been a reality had Kashmiris stayed United...
And that FOUR POINT FORMULA is exactly what i am talking about (OPEN BORDERS SOLUTION )
As far as your idea of we not surviving as an independent nation and being locked by nations on all sides is concerned, I have to say their is nothing to Agree about it....
You should just look at Nepal and see whoz surrounding it and what is its GDP... it still has survived and is living as a sovereign country...
India and Pakistan are still getting funds from US and WB and if thise funds are stopped they simply won't survive...
And the India is able to handle hardline factions becoz the factions are against them and not against Kashmiris... didn't the Indian hardliners drop their guns at the time of Independence????
And I agree with your other points and i was wrong about that constitution point.. i actually was talking about our own constitution and UN resolutions and u have rightly taught other poster the lesson who was giving it a name of religious struggle...

 

[UN talkz]

I think i didnt make myself clear there. Ofcourse it wont change your perception completely but some people feel more sympathetic towards them when they are told that pandits were ousted by muslims on religious grounds. I hope you are realistic enough to acknowledge that the sympathy wont be the same if Indians are told that the state was responsible for everything. That doesnt make Indians bad in any way, it just changes the manner and magnitude of their sympathy.



No there isnt a possibility of it i'm afraid because there is way too many circumstantial evidences which are supplemented by letters from Kashmiri pandit leaders of that time which make everything quite clear. Terms like genocide, mass rapes of pandits, exodus on religious grounds are mostly a myth and are grossly exaggerated by Indian media.

Its a shame really that we are playing the blame game here. We should feel the pain of pandits, no matter what the reason was for them leaving the valley. Efforts should be made to bring them back and i mean serious efforts to incorporate them back in their own society, not just efforts for political point scoring.

No need to ask anybody for anything just ask the PANDITS who are still residing in KASHMIR who was responsible and have they ever and ever been hurt by their Muslim brethren...

 

[Madplayer]

I can't understand why u and me aren't on the same page.....
But let's talk about it in detail....
During the late 80's or 90's various organisations came into being namely:--
MUF
JEI
ALL PARTY HURRIYAT CONFERENCE
KLF
HM
and some other organisations as well...
All the organisations had the same ideology and the same official stance that was Merging with Pakistan
When KLF chief Yasin Malik(who was chairman of IOK) surrendered, he as well as others most prominently Amanatullah Khan( from POK) changed the name of his organisation from KLF to JKLF(all parts of kashmir)...
They officially have a pact written and changed their official stance to fight for Independent Kashmir through non violent methods.....
During the 90's HURRIYAT split into no. of factions.... and each faction kept changing its stance from merging with Pakistan to Independent kashmir except Geelani led HURRIYAT G....
After the turn of century APHC also changed its stance but Geelani continued his own stance of merging with Pakistan and he still stands by it...
although since last decade Geelani has softened his stance and he now demands demilitarisation first and then talks, as earlier when he didn't accept anything less than Pakistan but he hasn't officially changed his stance..... Other organisations gradually lost their charm and followers of their ideology...
Apart from this SIKH organisations APSCC and DAL KHALSA are also for independence... A smaller organisation of Kashmiri Pandits also demand Independence although large no. of them want to stay with India...
And most importantly the stance of people has changed that has forced the aforementioned organisations to change their stance....
As far as HM is concerned they simply cannot change their stance becoz they have survived so long only becoz of Pakistan and that is understood...
But in 2004 HM had also agreed on MUSHARAF'S FOUR POINT FORMULA.... then Geelani was the only person who didn't accept the MUSHARAF formula and henceforth things couldn't be solved....
Both Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh have said that Four Point Formula would have been a reality had Kashmiris stayed United...
And that FOUR POINT FORMULA is exactly what i am talking about (OPEN BORDERS SOLUTION )

We are on the same page on many things. You are talking about 80s and 90s. I am talking about the larger time frame. Since partition took place in 1947, Kashmiris always wanted to join Pakistan. ALWAYS. This demand for independence is recent in its origin especially after Nawz sharief's Kargil episode. And mostly only young boys and girls want this.

You were saying 80% of people want independence which can not be proved in anyway. There have been bo official or reliable surveys or anything for this. My point is clear, we dont know what the people will choose until a referendum takes place so it would be wrong to assume anything.

As far as your idea of we not surviving as an independent nation and being locked by nations on all sides is concerned, I have to say their is nothing to Agree about it....
You should just look at Nepal and see whoz surrounding it and what is its GDP... it still has survived and is living as a sovereign country...
India and Pakistan are still getting funds from US and WB and if thise funds are stopped they simply won't survive...

If you are taking nepal as a standard then i must say thats a very poor standard. And it proves my point too. Nepal is landlocked, going through instability and infighting since decades, is a puppet of India and financially poor.

If you just want a sovereign j&k on paper, with people living in fear everytime and has a puppet regime which takes orders from other regional powers, then its your opinion and i wont support such "sovereignty" because its a sham.

And the India is able to handle hardline factions becoz the factions are against them and not against Kashmiris... didn't the Indian hardliners drop their guns at the time of Independence????

Indian hardliners arent the same as kashmiri militants. Their goal was a secular set up while we have some (not all) militant factions which abhor a secular state. These would cause problems if we dont possess a strong muscle to coerce them into the mainstream. Its really childish to think they will just accept all terms of new govenment.

 

[UN talkz]

I think i didnt make myself clear there. Ofcourse it wont change your perception completely but some people feel more sympathetic towards them when they are told that pandits were ousted by muslims on religious grounds. I hope you are realistic enough to acknowledge that the sympathy wont be the same if Indians are told that the state was responsible for everything. That doesnt make Indians bad in any way, it just changes the manner and magnitude of their sympathy.



No there isnt a possibility of it i'm afraid because there is way too many circumstantial evidences which are supplemented by letters from Kashmiri pandit leaders of that time which make everything quite clear. Terms like genocide, mass rapes of pandits, exodus on religious grounds are mostly a myth and are grossly exaggerated by Indian media.

Its a shame really that we are playing the blame game here. We should feel the pain of pandits, no matter what the reason was for them leaving the valley. Efforts should be made to bring them back and i mean serious efforts to incorporate them back in their own society, not just efforts for political point scoring.

Agreed..... The larger perspective is that Pundits have suffered a lot and they need to be brought back with dignity and serious intensions are needed for this to happen.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Pakistan's stand on Kashmir is strong and has continued since decades and there is no doubt about that..... but will they be ready to see Kashmir as an independent country...

They will do, but the clamour for independence isn't there.