What people who are pro-separatists need to realize that this is not India or 1950's or 60's. India has changed a lot and it is a South Asian super power. Not even China can twist its arm completely. So forget Pakistan. Separatists are like pests. India will tolerate them and from time to time destroy them.
Oppressed?
India does not get any pleasure in oppressing Kashmiris. Kashmir is part of India just like a Manipur or Rajasthan or Karnataka or Punjab. As long as Kashmiris do not demand freedom or join Pakistan, Indian army will not use force.
It gives me peace of mind thinking that Kashmiris will be oppressed forever.
India is perfectly adept at playing this game for decades to come. It has the money and muscle to do it for a long long time.
These 50 lakh people have a choice: they can either become part of the India growth story or they can cry, sulk, whine and throw stones on Army personnel. Frankly, no one cares, not even their minders in Pakistan, who are more interested in getting political mileage out of this than doing something meaningful about it.
You do realize that you've lost the argument the moment you brought Nazism into this? Google for Godwin's Law.
Problem with the standard Pakistani narrative on Kashmir is: it's so far removed from the reality that sometimes one has to wonder if they're even on the same planet.
Let's try and differentiate from the myth and reality.
Pak myth: India is about to break up. The center can not hold. Anarchy is about to descend.
Reality: India's never been stronger. It successfully overcame the Punjab problem (a unique outcome in the modern history). It has seen 70 years of rich democratic tradition (except for 18 months of emergency in 1975). Free and fair elections are conducted every 5 years followed by seamless transition of power irrespective of who wins. It has a professional army under 100% civilian control and has *never* gone out line (not even during the emergency in 1975). Local insurgencies like naxalism are beginning to come under control.
Myth: Extreme poverty will push India into chaos.
Reality: On a % terms, the poverty rate is at its lowest in the history of south Asia and going further down fast. Literacy rate is at its highest and climbing fast. Consumerism is growing and people are beginning to lead comfortable life. Extreme form of poverty still exists but there is a well-proven framework to resolve the issues in the coming years.
Myth: India is in the permanent state of ethno-religious strife.
Reality: Decade on decade, this has actually come down. On a per capita basis, the number of violent incidents or people affected in violent incidents is at its minimum. India is in fact the safest place for a Muslim to be in.
So where does Kashmir fit in all this? It doesn't. 99% of Indians do not care about what goes on in Kashmir. They're busy leading their day-to-day lives. Whenever something happens in Kashmir, media reports it for a day or two and then people move on. Why should 1.25 billion people care about what 50 lakh miserably stupid people choose to do with their lives? The smarter among them already moved somewhere else and are leading happy lives (some to Birmingham, UK I might add
India has had peace, a good chain of governance and relatively no upheaval.
Pakistan has been wrecked with violence, it has had almost 60,000 dead in a decade of war, it has had numerous regime changes and political upheaval and even a localised civil war and its economy is a disaster and it has survived on IMF handouts. And yet here you are crowing about a 30% comparison with a nation that has barely hung on and I am the obtuse one.
Why don't you compare it to China? Someone who is India's main economic rival? The difference there is about 100%. Compared to that I'd say Pakistan being only 30% behind with all the chaos and disaster is doing stellar
You do realize that you've lost the argument the moment you brought Nazism into this? Google for Godwin's Law.
Boy, have you been busy.
I thought we were having a discussion, but let's say for a moment this is an argument. You're saying I've lost because I've mentioned Nazism? I used it as an example of how society can become if extreme patriotism is left unchecked. With that in mind I don't need to google Godwin's Law, I know exactly what it is; but you don't. I've not mentioned Hitler nor have I compared anyone with him or Nazism. Again is deliberate or misunderstood? It's petty if deliberate.
Problem with the standard Pakistani narrative on Kashmir is: it's so far removed from the reality that sometimes one has to wonder if they're even on the same planet.
Let's try and differentiate from the myth and reality.
Pak myth: India is about to break up. The center can not hold. Anarchy is about to descend.
Reality: India's never been stronger. It successfully overcame the Punjab problem (a unique outcome in the modern history). It has seen 70 years of rich democratic tradition (except for 18 months of emergency in 1975). Free and fair elections are conducted every 5 years followed by seamless transition of power irrespective of who wins. It has a professional army under 100% civilian control and has *never* gone out line (not even during the emergency in 1975). Local insurgencies like naxalism are beginning to come under control.
I agree about India's democracy, which is why Pakistan need to rid themselves of the Sharif/Bhutto corruption. You've just pointed out why Pakistan needs change.
I don't believe India is about to break up any time soon, but one thing is inevitable with Kashmir, India will either grant independence or destroy its own moral standards. The latter is more dangerous than the former. The problem is worsening and Indian hostilities are on the rise and India's military response is disproportionate, very much like Israel's. Your attitude towards Kashmiris is a prime example. India needs to extend its hand to Kashmir because it has far more to lose.
Myth: Extreme poverty will push India into chaos.
Reality: On a % terms, the poverty rate is at its lowest in the history of south Asia and going further down fast. Literacy rate is at its highest and climbing fast. Consumerism is growing and people are beginning to lead comfortable life. Extreme form of poverty still exists but there is a well-proven framework to resolve the issues in the coming years.
It won't descend into chaos because we've know what the Indian army is capable of against its own citizens. I only need to post this article to show you how figures can be manipulated: https://qz.com/1013004/the-five-hal...ndians-remain-poor/?utm_source=YPL&yptr=yahoo
Myth: India is in the permanent state of ethno-religious strife.
Reality: Decade on decade, this has actually come down. On a per capita basis, the number of violent incidents or people affected in violent incidents is at its minimum. India is in fact the safest place for a Muslim to be in.
I'm sorry but I have to laugh at this. Ask Kashmiri Muslims about how safe they feel or those Muslims persecuted for selling beef or even those who have supported the Pakistani cricket team. Some of this news has been posted by Indian users on this forum
So where does Kashmir fit in all this? It doesn't. 99% of Indians do not care about what goes on in Kashmir. They're busy leading their day-to-day lives. Whenever something happens in Kashmir, media reports it for a day or two and then people move on. Why should 1.25 billion people care about what 50 lakh miserably stupid people choose to do with their lives? The smarter among them already moved somewhere else and are leading happy lives (some to Birmingham, UK I might add
India could easily have gone the Israeli way and started populating the valley with the people from rest of the country and you could have seen Kashmiris getting outnumbered in their own backyard yet they did not and instead an average Kashmiri like you said enjoy some extra privileges compared to the people from rest of the India.
.India could easily have gone the Israeli way and started populating the valley with the people from rest of the country and you could have seen Kashmiris getting outnumbered in their own backyard yet they did not and instead an average Kashmiri like you said enjoy some extra privileges compared to the people from rest of the India.
Yet instead of working and striving to make their state progressive they chose to go the other way inciting hatred and even brainwashing school going children
Yes India had been at fault esp while dealing with local populace and adapting not enough measures to garner support from common man from the valley but the Kashmiris haven't been innocent either.No one is fool enough to not realize that the only motivation to join Pakistan is RELIGION.Period.I mean why else would you want to join a nation dealing with major internal problems of its own having enough crap on its plate already.
I sincerely hope one day they would come to their senses and we would see the peace prevail in the valley like it used to be the case before late 80s.
It's an interesting echo chamber some of you Pakistanis live in. Folks who know nothing about India (or Kashmir) are wholeheartedly agreeing with each other that "India is doomed in the long run."
Ironically it's happening on the same day India rolled out the most ambitious program on the planet to modernize tax system and create the world's largest common market. Surely a first step towards being doomed, would you agree?!
