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What comes first? Country, religion, language, culture or caste? State your preference

Thivagar

Thivagar

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I'm always confused regarding what should be more important than the other. I always thought that religion and language came first. Then I realized that some people believe differently.

Tell me what comes first and list Religion, Language, Country, Culture and Caste based on how important they are to you. Please remember that this is subjective and respect everyone's preference and beliefs.

My preference
Language, Culture, Religion, Country and Caste(Don't care about it at all).
 
1) Culture and language.
2) Country

Religion and caste don't really matter much, but they do have a cultural significance.
 
Zak_Fan said:
1) Culture and language.
2) Country

Religion and caste don't really matter much, but they do have a cultural significance.
Click to expand...

Please explain why your culture and language plays a significant role in your life ?
 
Thivagar said:
Please explain why your culture and language plays a significant role in your life ?
Click to expand...

Social interactions are the most important part of life. They lay a foundation for my prospective relationships, career opportunities and pretty much decide the direction my life will take. Nothing helps more in this regard than culture and language.
 
Why does it have to be an either-or proposition? I identify myself as all the above simultaneously.
 
HussainRx8 said:
Why does it have to be an either-or proposition? I identify myself as all the above simultaneously.
Click to expand...

That is how real world works. You can never have equal preference for all the listed above, please list them in order.
 
Well then I'm fortunate that I can make them simultaneously work without any apparent forced tradeoffs.
 
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All of these are important to me, but if I'd say I'm a human first and then a Muslim and everything else comes latter.
 
None of them are important to me. Ok maybe culture but only because of the food. Most other aspects of culture I am opposed to.
 
I come first and then everything else. If you put those things above yourself, you will eventually lose yourself and become something else.
 
None of those listed are important for me..

What comes first is my daughter, me, my family and my friends. That's all I don't care about other things..
 
I think the thread makes it quite clear that the question here is "which among these?". Of course there are going to be more important things to us all, but what is being asked here is order of preference for given options.
 
Among the options given I'm partial to language and culture due to which i can appreciate other languages and culture,caste is defn last the worst thing imo in South Asia.

I prefer country next but won't go as far as to keep questioning everyone's patriotism apparently that seems to be the trend among current generation.I believe in being loyal to the land within sensible limits.
 
Religion first, no doubt about that. Religion teaches me what is important in life and it puts humanity as one of the top priorities in life.
 
Language & culture
Country

Connect better with the above among the given options. Most tamils identify by their language above everything else, that's a given. The culture and language are a bit intertwined, so they are pretty much the same. Neutral regarding religion and despise castes. Obviously family and friends cricle above everything else.
 
I put language & Culture above the others simply because they are the most definitive part of your identity.Something that can never be taken away from you . And something that you can hold on to wherever you are. Caste is an unfortunate & ugly spinoff of culture and many a times people especially in India create the false equivalence that Culture==Caste. That I believe has to be discouraged if we are to progress as a nation.

Also being a Liberal minded Hindu from the Southern-most Indian state of Kerala, I find a few issuess with the other two...

India I believe, is a collection of semi-nation states which have long pretended to be one unified nation. Most of the states have different languages and traditions (especially down south) which required the states to be given sufficient autonomy within the nation. The Official/National Language controversy is the best example of that .
What holds India together has been this loosely-defined "Indian culture" derived from the Dharmic religions mainly Hinduism.
But the key fact is that Hinduism was never a centralized entity ,it accommodated all the variations in our cultures. Also the religions that came later - Christianity,Islam had mixed with the existing culture to create versions unique to India. A Kerala Christian has around 1800-1900 years of cultural history in which they have incorporated many Indian traditions into their everyday life that will be out of place in Europe-the centre of Christianity.
So are the Muslims here. They consider themselves descendant from the Arab traders who frequented our western coast from AD 600 onward. Muslims here do-not speak Urdu and feel no real connection with Pakistan or the Persian-Mughal culture. They believe in the "Ummah" concept though (Years of Saudi funded Arabisation has successfully replaced the existing Islamic culture here with imitations of the Saud/Arabic culture in many parts of our state.)
So religion cannot really define our Identity simply because a north Indian Hindu /Muslim will find too many cultural differences with their co-religionists down south. And irrespective of all the Religious unity talk that they do, people will find it difficult to look away from these differences.
Acknowledging of these differences and making provisions for them is what keeps this country glued together. And that is what unfortunately, I believe, this present government is not paying enough attention to... There is a limit to how much uniformity you can bring about in a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural and multi-linguistic entity like India. The Mughals were smart enough to not try that and so were the British.
 
I just want to be a better Human being every day to other human beings and be as kind as I can towards Humanity.

The above things should not be an indicator or a factor for someone to make certain decisions in life but I guess if I have to choose one then representation of being a good Pakistani (country) and a good Muslim (Religion) are something I try to achieve - and in that specific order as well !!
 
Suleiman said:
Does anybody even care about caste?
Click to expand...

Hell yeah !.. And I come from the Indian state which has made the most progress in terms of negating caste discrimination !! It's not openly out there in my state most of the time(except in very few remote/tribal areas. Neither is it in the big Indian cities(metros,tier 1 & 2 ) all over India. Many people, in the busy rush of life may not see/care about it much, in these places. But dig just a little deep and you start seeing things.. Things that make you wonder what progress even meant..:20: And It isn't limited to Hinduism alone too... Even caste free religions like Islam & Christianity have subtly incorporated the Indian caste system into their culture. The caste system has managed to tarnsform & attach itself very effectively to the Indian class system (the modern Rich/Poor or Urban/Rural arguments) .
 
Religion

Ethnicity

Culture

Language

Tribe( we don't have caste)

Country
 
1=Language.
Primary trait that differentiates humans from animals. Strongest filter to generation of thoughts and eventually to development of behaviour.

2=Country.
Firstly because of the connections it implies with language, secondly it provides you a group of diversified individuals you grow up with interactively ( more or less your genetic league ).

3= Religion & Culture.
Not involved in genesis of primary traits but can influence your preferences among these.
Again, Most religions are conceptually flawed when practiced beyond their primary languages.

5=Caste.
Has its attributes that are valid but not involved in genesis of primary traits and doesn't influence them either.
 
1. Religion and Country

2. Culture and Language



















759. Caste
 
Humanity. The rest I couldn't care about. They're irrelevant and man made.
 
1) Country
2) Culture

Things like Language, Caste do not have much significance to me.
 
Religion
Country/Culture


Language and Caste don't feature on the list for me.

As for the reasoning - my religion is a way of life and I feel defined who I am and how I conduct my self. In my opinion it's the only thing in the list which will help me in this life and next.

As for country - I feel the culture defines the country which is why they both come in at number 2 for me. In my opinion stuff like the land, the music, the food, the sports, the traditions - these are the things which I classify as 'culture' and are also the things which define a country.
 
I am forced to be a patriot on Pakistani forums, otherwise I am very anti-country in my views. Sometimes Pakpassion brings worst out of me.
 
TalhaSyed said:
Religion
Country/Culture


Language and Caste don't feature on the list for me.

As for the reasoning - my religion is a way of life and I feel defined who I am and how I conduct my self. In my opinion it's the only thing in the list which will help me in this life and next.

As for country - I feel the culture defines the country which is why they both come in at number 2 for me. In my opinion stuff like the land, the music, the food, the sports, the traditions - these are the things which I classify as 'culture' and are also the things which define a country.
Click to expand...
I feel like countries with similar religions have similar cultures. Ex: Secular places like Aus and SA have similar cultures. Culture is largely, but not only based on religion. Countries are just man-made. Language is important too. It is a big part of culture. Arabic is 10x more beautiful than English. Think about it, Pakistan's culture is more similar to Arab culture than India's, not because of location, but because of religion.
 
Rayyman said:
I feel like countries with similar religions have similar cultures. Ex: Secular places like Aus and SA have similar cultures. Culture is largely, but not only based on religion. Countries are just man-made. Language is important too. It is a big part of culture. Arabic is 10x more beautiful than English. Think about it, Pakistan's culture is more similar to Arab culture than India's, not because of location, but because of religion.
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Religion and Culture are man made too.

Hundreds of religions came before and went extinct. Culture and religion changes every time some Foreigner imposes his will on the local people.

Nothing is permanent. Everything has an expiry date.
 
Rayyman said:
I feel like countries with similar religions have similar cultures. Ex: Secular places like Aus and SA have similar cultures. Culture is largely, but not only based on religion. Countries are just man-made. Language is important too. It is a big part of culture. Arabic is 10x more beautiful than English. Think about it, Pakistan's culture is more similar to Arab culture than India's, not because of location, but because of religion.
Click to expand...


Yes in Pakistan women aren't allowed to drive, or be out of their house without a burqa or be seen without a mehram. Pakistanis also routinely indulge in camel jockeying, borderline slavery and ostentatious display of wealth. Pakistan's staple cuisine also comprises of shawarma, humus and couscous.

There is no difference I tell you. Pakistan and Arab is one and the same.
 
Rayyman said:
I feel like countries with similar religions have similar cultures. Ex: Secular places like Aus and SA have similar cultures. Culture is largely, but not only based on religion. Countries are just man-made. Language is important too. It is a big part of culture. Arabic is 10x more beautiful than English. Think about it, Pakistan's culture is more similar to Arab culture than India's, not because of location, but because of religion.
Click to expand...

It is not. Though Pakistan has adopted aspects of Arab culture since the 70s, they have all been adopted through a conscious effort on the part of several parties with vested interests, not because it was in any way similar to our culture and the two fused organically. Parts of it were carefully allowed to infiltrate and pollute our culture. It's also mostly limited to Punjab.
 
1-Religion(as it motivates me to become a better human being)

2-Country

3-Culture and Language

Caste doesn't matter to me at all.
 
Culture is most important. Iam in the US and the people I connect to are other Pakistanis followed by Muslim Indians (because of shared culture and festivals more than religion) followed by NOrth Indians and then South Indiansmay be . I have no desire to mix with Arabs though they are Muslims.There is some connection in that we may go to jumma together but I would probably connect with white people more than with an Arab.
 
Family always comes first.
Then Country
 
Country and loved ones. The rest are either irrelevant to me(language, caste/tribe) or things I'm actively hostile towards(religion, culture).
 
DW44 said:
It is not. Though Pakistan has adopted aspects of Arab culture since the 70s, they have all been adopted through a conscious effort on the part of several parties with vested interests, not because it was in any way similar to our culture and the two fused organically. Parts of it were carefully allowed to infiltrate and pollute our culture. It's also mostly limited to Punjab.
Click to expand...

Disclaimer : I for one do not know if complete adherence to the Arab way of life is mandated by the Koran. These are my thoughts
I feel that the huge number of Indians working in the middle east and explicit attempts by the Saud's & Qatari's have convinced a lot of Indians that their Islamic culture & Practices (developed over 500-600 years of fusion with the subcontinent culture) are inferior and need to be replaced with the Arab way as soon as possible. I find the rapid pace of this Arabisation especially post 9/11 period , shocking !
 
What's up with the people mentioning humanity, values and things like that. The OP clearly asks by which order you identify yourself among the specific options given in his post.
 
street cricketer said:
What's up with the people mentioning humanity, values and things like that. The OP clearly asks by which order you identify yourself among the specific options given in his post.
Click to expand...

Things like caste and language mean little for people who live outside of the subcontinent. For all I know the OP does as well so I'm interested to know their take on why those things are important.
 
DW44 said:
It is not. Though Pakistan has adopted aspects of Arab culture since the 70s, they have all been adopted through a conscious effort on the part of several parties with vested interests, not because it was in any way similar to our culture and the two fused organically. Parts of it were carefully allowed to infiltrate and pollute our culture. It's also mostly limited to Punjab.
Click to expand...

Tell us more about the Arab customs we copy, am I missing something?
 
Pakistanian said:
Tell us more about the Arab customs we copy, am I missing something?
Click to expand...

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/7663/arabization-of-pakistan-bringing-the-desert-home/
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft/article.php?issue=20120413&page=28

These cover most, though not all of the issues. Personally, I think there's no bigger example of Arabization than the emergence of a sizable Wahabi minority which was virtually non existent a few decades ago and the Wahabization of Deobandism which was historically closer in terms of religious practice to Brelvism than Wahabism until the 70s when Deobandi clergy and their madrasas were flooded with Arab money.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Things like caste and language mean little for people who live outside of the subcontinent. For all I know the OP does as well so I'm interested to know their take on why those things are important.
Click to expand...

Depends. Religion hardly matters to a lot of people in the west as well while not many of them feel the need to defend their country to the hilt like people of desi origin often do. So that leaves us with just culture. So all this will kinda make the question redundant for westerners. I guess the question was more directed towards desis and people of desi origin who generally identify more with options given in the OP.
 
Don't care about language, culture or cast. I care about country (UK) and religion (Islam) although neither am I some patriotic nor am I super religious. Neither of the five are most important things in my life.
 
For me the most important thing in life is unity, togetherness and love. It's my dream to see a world where people of all races, genders, sexuality, religions, cultures live together in peace and harmony without any ill feelings towards others. That probably will never happen especially in countries like Pakistan where non Muslims are treated like absolute dirt but one can dream.
 
Pakistanian said:
I don't get why our Indian friends are so obsessed with caste.
Click to expand...

We appear obsessed because it has affected the life of a vast majority of Indians and their life, mostly in not-so-positive ways. Even more of an impact than colonisation or mughal rule ever did. It is some thing that evokes extreme reactions in people. Ideally we would love to move towards a caste-free society. Some progress has been made in that regard as well. But it's still a work in progress.
 
Rayyman said:
I feel like countries with similar religions have similar cultures. Ex: Secular places like Aus and SA have similar cultures. Culture is largely, but not only based on religion. Countries are just man-made. Language is important too. It is a big part of culture. Arabic is 10x more beautiful than English. Think about it, Pakistan's culture is more similar to Arab culture than India's, not because of location, but because of religion.
Click to expand...

Yup that's very true.

I agree that religion has a hue role to play in shaping the culture of a country.

I guess that's why culture and country are the second most important thing to me - since they are based on religion which is the most important thing to me :)
 
Its amazing how people find religion the most important preference.

Do you guys honestly prefer an African Muslim or an Arab Muslim over a Pakistani Christian or Hindu? Outside of religion, you guys may have nothing in common with an African or an Arab or a Turk.
 
troodon said:
Its amazing how people find religion the most important preference.

Do you guys honestly prefer an African Muslim or an Arab Muslim over a Pakistani Christian or Hindu? Outside of religion, you guys may have nothing in common with an African or an Arab or a Turk.
Click to expand...

I do think religion plays a big role, it's not uncommon for Pakistanis to have more Muslim friends of different backgrounds than Indians, I've had Albanians give me discount at their restaurant for being muslim, I've had arabs get excited to know of my Muslim name, I've had black muslims call me brother just cause I'm muslim, I've had an Indian muslim dude I barely knew do me a favor just cause of my muslim name. I've had indian friends but that wasn't cause of their ethnicity but because of who they were, just like I've had white, black, Asian and Hispanic friends. The only nonmuslim Indian I vibed with just based off of our shared heritage was a Sikh dude I worked with.
 
[MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] you can even see most of the Pakistani and even bangladehsi youtubers bond with arab and afghan youtubers.
 
Pakistanian said:
[MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] you can even see most of the Pakistani and even bangladehsi youtubers bond with arab and afghan youtubers.
Click to expand...

I am not a Muslim so I may never know your mutual love with Muslims of other nations.

I am a Telugu guy. I can bond better with a Telugu Christian or a Muslim than with a Punjabi Hindu or a Bengali Hindu. Language is such a huge thing in this case even though I do not care more about it.

Talking to someone in our mother tongue is such a barrier breaker.
 
troodon said:
I am not a Muslim so I may never know your mutual love with Muslims of other nations.

I am a Telugu guy. I can bond better with a Telugu Christian or a Muslim than with a Punjabi Hindu or a Bengali Hindu. Language is such a huge thing in this case even though I do not care more about it.

Talking to someone in our mother tongue is such a barrier breaker.
Click to expand...

It's different for us western muslims cause most of us speak English as our first language, and we do know some Urdu which is shares Arabic vocabulary moreover nonrarab muslims all learn to read Arabic for the Quran, so that helps us bond.
 
Pakistanian said:
It's different for us western muslims cause most of us speak English as our first language, and we do know some Urdu which is shares Arabic vocabulary moreover nonrarab muslims all learn to read Arabic for the Quran, so that helps us bond.
Click to expand...

Understood.

Quite different from people like me in India.
 
Religion is the only thing which comes first. It's a choice to believe in all the most important answers to life.

The rest are down to chance.
 
Caste is the only thing that matters. And unlike the politically correct online forums, most Hindus from Middle Class to Upper Middle Class even in Cities not only prefer to marry within their own religion, ethnicity but also their caste. It's during the time of matchmaking, one can realize what is the preference of a particular family. And I can understand why Rajputs, Brahmins and other Upper Caste people might not want to corrupt their bloodline.

And long it may continue.

Then, comes the Hindu Cultural Nationalism in India.

A 70 year old National identity is too trivial compared to the interwined religion - Cultural identity whose history goes thousands of years back.
 
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Pakistanian said:
Tell us more about the Arab customs we copy, am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Your missing the western customs many of us also follow, from England, USA, France and so on. But don't expect them to be brought up by the myopic few who burn on the fuel of Islamic impact in the region. Some might call it seeing the glass as half full, others might see it as half empty.
 
Depends on what Im looking for.

For friendship and getting along, nothing matters apart from a free flowing bond in language, Hindi.

For marital purposes, Religion and Caste.
 
DW44 said:
http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/7663/arabization-of-pakistan-bringing-the-desert-home/
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/beta2/tft/article.php?issue=20120413&page=28

These cover most, though not all of the issues. Personally, I think there's no bigger example of Arabization than the emergence of a sizable Wahabi minority which was virtually non existent a few decades ago and the Wahabization of Deobandism which was historically closer in terms of religious practice to Brelvism than Wahabism until the 70s when Deobandi clergy and their madrasas were flooded with Arab money.
Click to expand...

Don't you that is Saudification rather than Arabization?
 
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