What could have Pakistan done to keep Bangladesh within the federation?

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Next week marks 50 years to the tragedy.

In my opinion, it was a failed experiment to merge East and West Pakistan into one country while we had poor relations with our neighbor India and had so mamy cultural issues.

The Pakistan Resolution clearly states that wherever Muslims are in majority they form independent STATES. This is in total agreement with the two nation theory.

Bangladesh should have been formed back in 1947 along with Pakistan.

Now coming to the question of the factors Pakistan should have taken.

Pakistan till 1971 never had any stable PM, constitution or parliamentary system to address the disparities. Selfish leaders like Sikander Mirza, Ayub, Bhutto and Mujib smelled opportunity and benefited from the situation. They later on faced their brutal fates.

Pakistan should have

.1.Made a stable constitution (like the one in 1973) in the 1950s with a bicameral legislature, a national assembly (one man one vote) and a senate with equal representation of all states so no one state can control affairs, unfortunately Ghulam Mohammad dissolved the constituent assembly when the constitution was almost complete.

2.Recognized all local languages as national languages

3.Held elections within 5 years of independence and every five years thereafter.

4. Carved out new states from existing ones on the basis of population rather than language/ethnicity and ended Feaudalism immediately after independence.

5. Military redistribution on the basis of population

6.Appointed Hussain Suhrawardy as first PM who could oversee the process like Nehru did for India. Instead Pakistan appointed Liaquat Ali Khan who in my opinion was not capable.

Pakistan had 4 PM from Bengal more than any other state till 1971. The whole system was just corrupt and broken.

Bengalis have always supported Pakistan. Even today the Pakistan Team receives greater support from them than any other country which is a proof to our brotherhood.

My opinion.

What's yours?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Nothing. They identified with India more due to geography and local culture.

 

[ElRaja]

not stolen an election from them. let mujib come into power and slowly devolve into an ever more decentralised confederation until after a few decades bangladesh might have probably have split off eventually anyway.

cant think of any instance of a country split by some much distance surviving.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan should have given them autonomy in the majority of areas except for foreign policies.

 

[street cricketer]

West Pakistan shouldn't have treated East Pakistan like its colony for starters. They exploited East Pakistan economically despite more revenue coming from the latter, imposed a foreign language on them that they do not understand or speak, had disproportionately little representation in the military, their leaders ignored East Pakistan despite it being ravaged by cyclones and floods, and also looked down on them with racist connotations.

The division was always going to happen. If all these things hadn't happened, maybe the union would have remained intact. Yes, the two territories being separated by a bitter enemy would always remain dangerous to sovereignty, but Bangladesh could probably have existed like the Nakhchivan autonomous republic that's part of Azerbaijan, separated by Armenia, with a road passing through Armenia connecting Azerbaijan and Nakhchivan, which is manned by Russian peace keeping soldiers. Perhaps something of that sort could have happened here, with a road passing through India connecting the two Pakistans on the east and the west, if Kashmir was not a source of conflict between the two countries.

 

[Giannis]

Nothing really, it was an inevitability due to the Cold war, conflict with India, distance between the two units and geopolitical pressures.

 

[Varun]

Imagine the further strategic stranglehold Pak + China would have if that was still their territory and there was no Sheikh Hasina type.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I see most blaming the distance factor. Only one poster talks about the real issue.

Mujib won an election, fair and square yet he was not allowed to be PM.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I see most blaming the distance factor. Only one poster talks about the real issue.

Mujib won an election, fair and square yet he was not allowed to be PM.

It simply wasn't logistical. The Bengali culture differs more starkly from any of the current Pakistani subcultures

 

[gazza619]

It simply wasn't logistical. The Bengali culture differs more starkly from any of the current Pakistani subcultures

I dont know what culture got to do anything with the topic?

The culprits responsible from our side should have all been hanged!

 

[Mamoon]

Not discriminate against them, not look down on their culture and physique, not have Quaid-e-Azam visit Dhaka in 1948 and declare Urdu as the state language, not deny their political rights.

Pakistan’s failure to stay in one piece also disproved the idealistic and delusional Two Nation Theory - it showed that religion itself is not a strong enough unifying force to unite Muslims as long as there are sociocultural differences.

 

[Itachi]

It simply wasn't logistical. The Bengali culture differs more starkly from any of the current Pakistani subcultures

What culture has to do with elections?

There's a constitution, election and setting up government. If a party fulfills all, it shouldn't be in power because of cultural differences?

I guess this mentality was the start which made east Pakistan realized that west Pakistan saw them as inferior.

 

[Mamoon]

It must be pointed out that getting rid of west Pakistan is the best thing that could have happened to Bangladesh.

They have left Pakistan behind in and every important metric and has a much brighter future.

 

[sweep_shot]

Whatever happened has happened. Time to move forward.

I think there are two things that causes the war. One was lack of autonomy and another was 1970 election.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

not stolen an election from them. let mujib come into power and slowly devolve into an ever more decentralised confederation until after a few decades bangladesh might have probably have split off eventually anyway.

cant think of any instance of a country split by some much distance surviving.

The stolen election was the final nail in the coffin. The seeds of discontent and disparities had been growing for 20 years. The system was just messed up.

 

[Bewal Express]

As painful as it was, and still is, it was for the best.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

It must be pointed out that getting rid of west Pakistan is the best thing that could have happened to Bangladesh.

They have left Pakistan behind in and every important metric and has a much brighter future.

I disagree.

Bangladesh is still far behind PAK even after 50 years.
Their performance in sports and total military dependance on India is shameful.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Not discriminate against them, not look down on their culture and physique, not have Quaid-e-Azam visit Dhaka in 1948 and declare Urdu as the state language, not deny their political rights.

Pakistan’s failure to stay in one piece also disproved the idealistic and delusional Two Nation Theory - it showed that religion itself is not a strong enough unifying force to unite Muslims as long as there are sociocultural differences.

The Two Nation Theory clearly states

Wherever Muslims are in majority they form separate STATES. Hence BD should've been formed back in 1947. It was a mistake to merge both wings together.

As evidenced by Modis India, these two cultures cannot peacefully coexist. There is just too much difference.

 

[Mamoon]

I disagree.

Bangladesh is still far behind PAK even after 50 years.
Their performance in sports and total military dependance on India is shameful.

Bangladesh is far behind Pakistan only in some people’s fantasies.

The Bangladeshi economy is in a much healthier position. They are doing better in most economic indicators. The Bangladeshi Taka is twice as strong as PKR.

No one cares about sports and fake military propaganda. The only thing that matters is economic health because it drives everything else.

Most Pakistanis will never accept the fact that Bangladesh has surpassed Pakistan. It bruises their ego. Pakistan suppressed Bangladesh (East Pakistan) for 20+ years and discriminated against them by denying them their due rights and treating them as second-class citizens.

However, in spite of that, Bangladesh managed to evolve on its own and has left Pakistan behind after 50 years. Very embarrassing and humiliating for Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

The Two Nation Theory clearly states

Wherever Muslims are in majority they form separate STATES. Hence BD should've been formed back in 1947. It was a mistake to merge both wings together.

As evidenced by Modis India, these two cultures cannot peacefully coexist. There is just too much difference.

The west Pakistani and Bengali cultures couldn’t peacefully coexist either and this is why the Two Nation Theory failed. It’s assumption that Subcontinent Muslims are one nation proved to be fantasy.

Proponents of the theory - from Sheikh Sirhindi to Syed Ahmad to Allama Iqbal to Jinnah - all failed to recognize that religious unity cannot overcome sociocultural differences.

They viewed everything through the prism of religion. Everything was black and white for them and this why we ended up with a chaotic country like Pakistan that was doomed to fail since it’s inception.

The proponents of the theory had one-track minds. They failed to realize the bitter truth that a Bengali Muslim is more likely to get along with a Bengali Hindu than a Punjabi Muslim.

 

[RajBan]

It's interesting that often I see these comments that West Pakistan tried to belittle the then East Pakistan culturally. What's the basis of this? If I purely go by facts and figures in terms of education, literature, art, music, gender equality, in every sense East Pakistan was miles ahead than the West Pakistan(and now even economy as well). Then where does this sense of cultural superiority come from?

 

[Varun]

Whatever happened has happened. Time to move forward.

I think there are two things that causes the war. One was lack of autonomy and another was 1970 election.

And don't forget Cyclone Bhola in 1970. The West Pakistani response to that was way below what was needed and lit the tinderbox the following year alongside the election.

If a similar cyclone had hit Karachi, the response would have been much more robust.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

The west Pakistani and Bengali cultures couldn’t peacefully coexist either and this is why the Two Nation Theory failed. It’s assumption that Subcontinent Muslims are one nation proved to be fantasy.

Proponents of the theory - from Sheikh Sirhindi to Syed Ahmad to Allama Iqbal to Jinnah - all failed to recognize that religious unity cannot overcome sociocultural differences.

They viewed everything through the prism of religion. Everything was black and white for them and this why we ended up with a chaotic country like Pakistan that was doomed to fail since it’s inception.

The proponents of the theory had one-track minds. They failed to realize the bitter truth that a Bengali Muslim is more likely to get along with a Bengali Hindu than a Punjabi Muslim.

That's untrue

The biggest proof is the decline of Hindu population in Bangladesh after independence in 1971. Even today there are two groups in BD one that supports PAK and is pro Khalida and the other which is Hindu Dominant that supports Haseena.

The % of Hindus were more than 15% in East Pakistan in 1962. See the % now.

There are so many religious conflicts in BD even today which is a testimony to the two nation theory.

Outside BD, Bangladeshi get along well with their frllow Pakistani brothers. I don't know about you, but majority of PAK/BD muslims take their religion before their ethnicity atleast outside their native country.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Bangladesh is far behind Pakistan only in some people’s fantasies.

The Bangladeshi economy is in a much healthier position. They are doing better in most economic indicators. The Bangladeshi Taka is twice as strong as PKR.

No one cares about sports and fake military propaganda. The only thing that matters is economic health because it drives everything else.

Most Pakistanis will never accept the fact that Bangladesh has surpassed Pakistan. It bruises their ego. Pakistan suppressed Bangladesh (East Pakistan) for 20+ years and discriminated against them by denying them their due rights and treating them as second-class citizens.

However, in spite of that, Bangladesh managed to evolve on its own and has left Pakistan behind after 50 years. Very embarrassing and humiliating for Pakistan.

Bangladesh never SURPASSED us.

It was ALWAYS ahead even during united Pakistan. It had a much fertile land. It generated 55% of Pakistan's exports.

Nothing has changed

However the fact remains

Manpower, intelligence, military, nuclear power and sports PAK is way way ahead. Culturally PAK is much more diverse and home to 100+ languages and numerous races. We are the most diverse Muslim country in the world and all united in the name of Islam. Culturally there is a massive difference between a Sindhi and Gilgiti yet we are all one. This itself is a proof to the two nation theory.

BD lost a strong partner. It may be economically superior however it's nothing but an Indian colony in my opinion. It has no say of it's own.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It simply wasn't logistical. The Bengali culture differs more starkly from any of the current Pakistani subcultures

So? They were pakistani and voted a pakistani into power.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Bangladesh never SURPASSED us.

It was ALWAYS ahead even during united Pakistan. It had a much fertile land. It generated 55% of Pakistan's exports.

Nothing has changed

However the fact remains

Manpower, intelligence, military, nuclear power and sports PAK is way way ahead. Culturally PAK is much more diverse and home to 100+ languages and numerous races. We are the most diverse Muslim country in the world and all united in the name of Islam. Culturally there is a massive difference between a Sindhi and Gilgiti yet we are all one. This itself is a proof to the two nation theory.

BD lost a strong partner. It may be economically superior however it's nothing but an Indian colony in my opinion. It has no say of it's own.

Whats the military intelligence nuclear power of Sweden or Norway? Yet these countries are far far ahead of Pakistan.

Economic development means tommorow BD can decide to invest in military might if it wants.

Sports? Well BD regularly gets tours by cricketing nations, with rare pull outs. Does pakistan get such tours regularly?

BD enjoys a good relationship with India because India didn't massacre loot or rape BD people, rather we liberated them from pakistan.

I know it hurts people like you to see BD flourish and be a living example of the failure of two nation theory.

 

[ElRaja]

Pakistan should have given them autonomy in the majority of areas except for foreign policies.

there was two major problems at the time.

1. urdu. bengalis did not want urdu to be sole language of pakistan. realisitically pakistan has had enough trouble with trying to keep urdu and english as national languages that illiteracy is still a massive issue. also people seem to forget that for the sindhis, balochis, pathans, and to some extent the peasent class of punjabis, urdu was a foriegn language too. the real issue imo was the script, and the only solution, which would have required a dictator with an iron fist would have been to go down the turkey route and replace every language with latin script. however that would be virtually unthinkable in an islamic republic.

2. finances. bengalis realised capital flight to west pakistan was a massive issue and wanted their own central bank and currency. there is no way a country can survive with two central banks. both countries would have eventually split up anyway.

the irony is that the framework of the six point agenda, is in essence exactly what Pakistan should have been, however point 2 above made it unworkable. if the west pakistani politicians were acting in good faith they would have accepted points 1,2,4 and 5, and let the bengali nationalists choose between compromise or revolt. im pretty sure the bengali popular sentiment at that time would align with the former rather than the latter.

Most Pakistanis will never accept the fact that Bangladesh has surpassed Pakistan. It bruises their ego.

this is untrue, every knowledgable pakistani i have spoken to on the matter knows that bangladesh has outperformed pakistan economically. its fine to call out other peoples generalisations, but then dont go falling in the same trap by generalising all pakistanis.

 

[JaDed]

Bangladesh never SURPASSED us.

It was ALWAYS ahead even during united Pakistan. It had a much fertile land. It generated 55% of Pakistan's exports.

Nothing has changed

However the fact remains

Manpower, intelligence, military, nuclear power and sports PAK is way way ahead. Culturally PAK is much more diverse and home to 100+ languages and numerous races. We are the most diverse Muslim country in the world and all united in the name of Islam. Culturally there is a massive difference between a Sindhi and Gilgiti yet we are all one. This itself is a proof to the two nation theory.

BD lost a strong partner. It may be economically superior however it's nothing but an Indian colony in my opinion. It has no say of it's own.

How is it an Indian colony? Bangladeshis even in North America are doing better than most Desis, maybe you should think about what you are saying and give some proof.

They also are smart to get investments from China, India and America, unlike some country banking on one alone.

Lol@strong partner , you sound like a desi uncle asking his daughter to stay in an abusive marriage.

 

[RajBan]

Bangladesh never SURPASSED us.

It was ALWAYS ahead even during united Pakistan. It had a much fertile land. It generated 55% of Pakistan's exports.

Nothing has changed

However the fact remains

Manpower, intelligence, military, nuclear power and sports PAK is way way ahead. Culturally PAK is much more diverse and home to 100+ languages and numerous races. We are the most diverse Muslim country in the world and all united in the name of Islam. Culturally there is a massive difference between a Sindhi and Gilgiti yet we are all one. This itself is a proof to the two nation theory.

BD lost a strong partner. It may be economically superior however it's nothing but an Indian colony in my opinion. It has no say of it's own.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[NishanKonar]

Imagine the further strategic stranglehold Pak + China would have if that was still their territory and there was no Sheikh Hasina type.

This is 1 big cultural difference between Pakistanis and Bengalis

Pakistanis always think in military terms - strategic depth, deep assets , military parity. Bengalis are more focused on HDI - better education , healthcare, jobs. No wonder today Bangladesh is so far ahead of Pakistan on every HDI metric although Pakistan has nuclear weapons and F16s. Most Bengalis wud see such nuclear weapons & F16s as a waste of money in a country with such high poverty and malnutrition. Its a similar mindset you see in India's West Bengal province.

Zulfikar Bhutto once said - " we will eat grass if needed to get nuclear weapon ". No Bengali leader will agree to that

This is why 1965 war sowed seeds of discontent in East Bengal. Many Bengali leaders wondered why exactly do they need to spend so much money on military and wars when their country is so poor. Even worse a lot of that military funding was coming from East Bengal. The lukewarm response to Cyclone Bhola made it worse

This cultural difference was never going to be reconciled. So the break up was inevitable

 

[SpiritOf1903]

A seismic earthquake that would've shifted the lands closer?

This is 1 big cultural difference between Pakistanis and Bengalis

Pakistanis always think in military terms - strategic depth, deep assets , military parity. Bengalis are more focused on HDI - better education , healthcare, jobs. No wonder today Bangladesh is so far ahead of Pakistan on every HDI metric although Pakistan has nuclear weapons and F16s. Most Bengalis wud see such nuclear weapons & F16s as a waste of money in a country with such high poverty and malnutrition. Its a similar mindset you see in India's West Bengal province.

Zulfikar Bhutto once said - " we will eat grass if needed to get nuclear weapon ". No Bengali leader will agree to that

This is why 1965 war sowed seeds of discontent in East Bengal. Many Bengali leaders wondered why exactly do they need to spend so much money on military and wars when their country is so poor. Even worse a lot of that military funding was coming from East Bengal. The lukewarm response to Cyclone Bhola made it worse

This cultural difference was never going to be reconciled. So the break up was inevitable

Pakistanis are the biggest ostrich going.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Whats the military intelligence nuclear power of Sweden or Norway? Yet these countries are far far ahead of Pakistan.

Economic development means tommorow BD can decide to invest in military might if it wants.

Sports? Well BD regularly gets tours by cricketing nations, with rare pull outs. Does pakistan get such tours regularly?

BD enjoys a good relationship with India because India didn't massacre loot or rape BD people, rather we liberated them from pakistan.

I know it hurts people like you to see BD flourish and be a living example of the failure of two nation theory.

Yes just like PAK wants to liberate Kashmir from oppressive Indian rule. Or Khalistan or Nagaland. The list goes on. Better stick to the topic of the thread or the mods will slap you with a fine.

The biggest proof of the two nation theory is india itself. More than 70k+ people have died due to religious violence since 1947 despite it's secular claims.

It just isn't possible for Muslims and Hindus to coexist together unless they're educated like in US/UK the subcontinent is still decades behind.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Whats the military intelligence nuclear power of Sweden or Norway? Yet these countries are far far ahead of Pakistan.

Economic development means tommorow BD can decide to invest in military might if it wants.

Sports? Well BD regularly gets tours by cricketing nations, with rare pull outs. Does pakistan get such tours regularly?

BD enjoys a good relationship with India because India didn't massacre loot or rape BD people, rather we liberated them from pakistan.

I know it hurts people like you to see BD flourish and be a living example of the failure of two nation theory.

Better hope that BD doesn't invest too much in the military, one day they may decide they don't want a fence dividing their state in two and take it down to reunite Bengal once more.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

How is it an Indian colony? Bangladeshis even in North America are doing better than most Desis, maybe you should think about what you are saying and give some proof.

They also are smart to get investments from China, India and America, unlike some country banking on one alone.

Lol@strong partner , you sound like a desi uncle asking his daughter to stay in an abusive marriage.

Majority of the BD people are against the Hadeena Regime which has reduced BD to a colony of IND.

Even today majority of BD people support PAK over IND you can compare the support when PAK IND play against each other in Dhaka.

By strong partner I meant that Bangladesh lost it's 4 other brother states in PAK and is now nothing but a colony of India due to Haseena's regime.

Even today how many lawyers, doctors, intellectuals do you see from BD in USA/UK or any West country?

Out of 100% south asian graduates in USA, 60 are Indian ,30 PAK and 10 from other south asian states. BD still lags far behind.

Pak is going through a tough phase economically but we'll surpass it.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Ignorance is bliss.

Tell that to your government. Nagaland and Kashmir b
are bleeding.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

This is 1 big cultural difference between Pakistanis and Bengalis

Pakistanis always think in military terms - strategic depth, deep assets , military parity. Bengalis are more focused on HDI - better education , healthcare, jobs. No wonder today Bangladesh is so far ahead of Pakistan on every HDI metric although Pakistan has nuclear weapons and F16s. Most Bengalis wud see such nuclear weapons & F16s as a waste of money in a country with such high poverty and malnutrition. Its a similar mindset you see in India's West Bengal province.

Zulfikar Bhutto once said - " we will eat grass if needed to get nuclear weapon ". No Bengali leader will agree to that

This is why 1965 war sowed seeds of discontent in East Bengal. Many Bengali leaders wondered why exactly do they need to spend so much money on military and wars when their country is so poor. Even worse a lot of that military funding was coming from East Bengal. The lukewarm response to Cyclone Bhola made it worse

This cultural difference was never going to be reconciled. So the break up was inevitable

This was BD never had to face any threat from India

Example would be a student studying more for her exam because she has to get into medical school versus a child studying for business. Both have different scenarios.

Your comparison is baseless

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Whats the military intelligence nuclear power of Sweden or Norway? Yet these countries are far far ahead of Pakistan.

Economic development means tommorow BD can decide to invest in military might if it wants.

Sports? Well BD regularly gets tours by cricketing nations, with rare pull outs. Does pakistan get such tours regularly?

BD enjoys a good relationship with India because India didn't massacre loot or rape BD people, rather we liberated them from pakistan.

I know it hurts people like you to see BD flourish and be a living example of the failure of two nation theory.

Tour pullouts have happened in almost all cricketing countries.

PAK of today head to head can crush BD in most sports or military conflict. End of story.

PAK doctors have published more papers than BD and many other countries combined.

 

[sweep_shot]

Outside BD, Bangladeshi get along well with their frllow Pakistani brothers. I don't know about you, but majority of PAK/BD muslims take their religion before their ethnicity atleast outside their native country.

I agree with your these two statements.

I personally care about my Muslim identity more than my Bangladeshi identity. Most Bangladeshis I know have the same mindset.

 

[NishanKonar]

Majority of the BD people are against the Hadeena Regime which has reduced BD to a colony of IND.

Even today majority of BD people support PAK over IND you can compare the support when PAK IND play against each other in Dhaka.

By strong partner I meant that Bangladesh lost it's 4 other brother states in PAK and is now nothing but a colony of India due to Haseena's regime.

Even today how many lawyers, doctors, intellectuals do you see from BD in USA/UK or any West country?

Out of 100% south asian graduates in USA, 60 are Indian ,30 PAK and 10 from other south asian states. BD still lags far behind.

Pak is going through a tough phase economically but we'll surpass it.

Currently in the USA as per govt records - there are 8600 college students from Bangladesh and 7475 from Pakistan

So yes Bangladeshis have surpassed Pakistan here as well

 

[NishanKonar]

This was BD never had to face any threat from India

Example would be a student studying more for her exam because she has to get into medical school versus a child studying for business. Both have different scenarios.

Your comparison is baseless

The point I was making is that Bangladesh is ahead of Pakistan on every economic metric and the gap will only widen going ahead bcoz their society is not obsessed with military / nuclear weapons / F16s unlike Pakistan

 

[RajBan]

Tell that to your government. Nagaland and Kashmir b
are bleeding.

You continue to prove my point.

 

[Napa]

Imagine the further strategic stranglehold Pak + China would have if that was still their territory and there was no Sheikh Hasina type.

I tried, but could not imagine it.

 

[Varun]

I tried, but could not imagine it.

Look up something called the Chicken's Neck, which is vulnerable enough as it is.

 

[Itachi]

Majority of the BD people are against the Hadeena Regime which has reduced BD to a colony of IND.

Even today majority of BD people support PAK over IND you can compare the support when PAK IND play against each other in Dhaka.

By strong partner I meant that Bangladesh lost it's 4 other brother states in PAK and is now nothing but a colony of India due to Haseena's regime.

Even today how many lawyers, doctors, intellectuals do you see from BD in USA/UK or any West country?

Out of 100% south asian graduates in USA, 60 are Indian ,30 PAK and 10 from other south asian states. BD still lags far behind.

Pak is going through a tough phase economically but we'll surpass it.

This is the mindset why Bangladesh was born. You asked the question and the answer was in your post itself.

A west Pakistani shouldn't have the same mindset as you in order to keep east Pakistan together.

 

[Napa]

Look up something called the Chicken's Neck, which is vulnerable enough as it is.

You assume that China would foolishly launch such a war with India. China is happy running a $50 billion trade surplus with India. Also, if China and an United Pakistan cut off access to Assam and the Northeast, it would still leave the majority of India intact. India could also retaliate in other places like it did in Lahore 1965.

Such a war would also hasten the defense ties India and the Western democracies, which are anyway growing.

 

[Napa]

Better hope that BD doesn't invest too much in the military, one day they may decide they don't want a fence dividing their state in two and take it down to reunite Bengal once more.

Bangladeshis are too smart to pick an unnecessary fight with their largest neighbor which would destroy their economy… unlike Pakistan.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Pakistan made a lot of mistakes, but this was never going to work out with hostile India in the middle. They meddle enough in what is Pakistan today, one can only imagine what they did do and would’ve continued to do if east snd west existed.

Better for Bangladeshi people this way anyway than to suffer from indias proxy war as east Pakistanis.

 

[Napa]

Pakistan made a lot of mistakes, but this was never going to work out with hostile India in the middle.

Yes, Pakistan needed the Niazi Corridor.

“ This he called the "Niazi corridor theory" explaining: "It was a corridor that the Quaid-e-Azam demanded and I will obtain it by force of arms".[60][page needed] In a plan he presented to the central government in June 1971, he stated in his own words that "I would capture Agartala and a big chunk of Assam, and develop multiple thrusts into Indian Bengal. We would cripple the economy of Calcutta by blowing up bridges and sinking boats and ships in Hooghly River and create panic amongst the civilians. One air raid on Calcutta would set a sea of humanity in motion to get out of Calcutta".[61][62]
A journalist from the Dawn newspaper had observed him thus: When I last met him on 30 September 1971, at his force headquarters in Kurmitola, he was full of beans.[1]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._K._Niazi

 

[NishanKonar]

Yes, Pakistan needed the Niazi Corridor.

“ This he called the "Niazi corridor theory" explaining: "It was a corridor that the Quaid-e-Azam demanded and I will obtain it by force of arms".[60][page needed] In a plan he presented to the central government in June 1971, he stated in his own words that "I would capture Agartala and a big chunk of Assam, and develop multiple thrusts into Indian Bengal. We would cripple the economy of Calcutta by blowing up bridges and sinking boats and ships in Hooghly River and create panic amongst the civilians. One air raid on Calcutta would set a sea of humanity in motion to get out of Calcutta".[61][62]
A journalist from the Dawn newspaper had observed him thus: When I last met him on 30 September 1971, at his force headquarters in Kurmitola, he was full of beans.[1]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._K._Niazi

A smart level headed general could have averted outright surrender. and probably force a ceasefire on favorable terms. But this sorts of rhetoric proves how much Niazi was pretty much out of touch with reality. Explains why the war finished so badly for Pakistan

 

[Napa]

Even today majority of BD people support PAK over IND you can compare the support when PAK IND play against each other in Dhaka.

By strong partner I meant that Bangladesh lost it's 4 other brother states in PAK and is now nothing but a colony of India due to Haseena's regime.

When a brother commits genocide it is time to say bye bye.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide

Even today how many lawyers, doctors, intellectuals do you see from BD in USA/UK or any West country?

Let me ask you a similar question. How many CEOs of the biggest US firms do you see from Pakistan?

By your logic, Pakistan should have remained with India.

Out of 100% south asian graduates in USA, 60 are Indian ,30 PAK and 10 from other south asian states. BD still lags far behind.

There is delusion and then there is this. No, the number of Pakistani graduates in the US is not 1/2 of Indian graduates, it is more like 7,475/167,582 ~ 1/22

Let alone Bangladesh (8,598), among South Asian countries even Nepal (11,172) has more students in the US compared to Pakistan.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/

 

[Third_Umpire]

Yes, Pakistan needed the Niazi Corridor.

“ This he called the "Niazi corridor theory" explaining: "It was a corridor that the Quaid-e-Azam demanded and I will obtain it by force of arms".[60][page needed] In a plan he presented to the central government in June 1971, he stated in his own words that "I would capture Agartala and a big chunk of Assam, and develop multiple thrusts into Indian Bengal. We would cripple the economy of Calcutta by blowing up bridges and sinking boats and ships in Hooghly River and create panic amongst the civilians. One air raid on Calcutta would set a sea of humanity in motion to get out of Calcutta".[61][62]
A journalist from the Dawn newspaper had observed him thus: When I last met him on 30 September 1971, at his force headquarters in Kurmitola, he was full of beans.[1]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._A._K._Niazi

No doubt Pakistan has had plans to and has meddled in India too. Unfortunate state of affairs. My point in calling India out was to address the topic of this post, which is the secession of East Pakistan from West.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

With neighbouring states or provinces there's always an over lapse in culture, languages, food. You can sense this in Italy, France and Switzerland.

In case of BD, Pakistanis share nothing except religion.

You can say if Hyderabad was East Pakistan then things would have been different due to shared language.

But I as Indian Punjabi also have nothing in common with Indian Bengali, not even religion. Yet we coexist. I think biggest reason is Indian government didn't imposed Hindi nationwide. Only 45% of Indian population has Hindi as their 'first' language, only 9 states out of 28 have majority Hindi speakers. Rest have their own regional language as native language. India does not have national language. Same is true for Indian political parties, Bengalis and Punjabis are represented by regional parties and are not dependent on Congress or BJP. These regional parties do align with national parties but they are expected to put forward the best interest of the region first.

How many newspapers in Pakistan are printed in Shahmukhi script Punjabi in Pakistani Punjab? Compared to Urdu publications? Why Punjabi is considered a paindoo language in Pakistan and Urdu is considered sophisticated? In India you can be urban sophisticated Punjabi or Paindoo Punjabi. Even Hindu's in Punjab take pride in Punjabi language. Same is true for other states of India. South Indians are very vocal about their stance against imposition of Hindi.

I think BD's reluctance to adopt Urdu was reason behind separation. Bengali is much older language and 3 times more people speak it globally, and is a local language to Bangladeshi's.

 

[Napa]

But I as Indian Punjabi also have nothing in common with Indian Bengali, not even religion.

Most Indian Punjabis are Sikhs and Hindus, and Indian Bengalis are Hindus. Also, Punjabi and Bengali are sister Indo-European languages.

I think BD's reluctance to adopt Urdu was reason behind separation. Bengali is much older language and 3 times more people speak it globally, and is a local language to Bangladeshi's.

I don't think anyone will argue that the Pakistani political elite, especially the Generals did not treat the Bangladeshis as second class citizens.

 

[finalfantasy7]

to treat its citizens with respect

 

[PakLFC]

Should have treated the Bengalis with much greater respect. I have heard some terrible stories of how those residing in then West Pakistan that is the current Pakistan were treated poorly. Racism and culturalism towards them was rather common.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Bangladeshis are too smart to pick an unnecessary fight with their largest neighbor which would destroy their economy… unlike Pakistan.

Not everything is about money. You will learn that eventually.

 

[Napa]

Not everything is about money. You will learn that eventually.

Yeah, for you enmity based on religion is more important than bringing people of your country out of poverty. 22 bailouts by the IMF.

"Pakistani doctor who reused syringes busted after 900 children contracted HIV"

"He told the paper the doctor snapped at him and said he was using an old syringe because Jalbani couldn’t afford a new one."

https://nypost.com/2019/10/28/pakis...ges-busted-after-900-children-contracted-hiv/

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yeah, for you enmity based on religion is more important than bringing people of your country out of poverty. 22 bailouts by the IMF.

"Pakistani doctor who reused syringes busted after 900 children contracted HIV"

"He told the paper the doctor snapped at him and said he was using an old syringe because Jalbani couldn’t afford a new one."

https://nypost.com/2019/10/28/pakis...ges-busted-after-900-children-contracted-hiv/

Since when was Britain in poverty?

 

[PakLFC]

I just can't see how East and West Pakistan could have been one country with India in the middle. This experiment was bound to fail.

 

[sweep_shot]

And don't forget Cyclone Bhola in 1970. The West Pakistani response to that was way below what was needed and lit the tinderbox the following year alongside the election.

If a similar cyclone had hit Karachi, the response would have been much more robust.

I agree. Pakistan made a blunder with their response with Cyclone Bhola.

But, like I said, everyone has to move on. I think both Pakistan and Bangladesh can and should work together. No point in living in past.

 

[street cricketer]

I do think remaining in the Pakistani union would've been a net negative for Bangladesh as far as its growth story is concerned, as it would have been forced to fight Pakistan's wars in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion in the 80s with the Mujahideens and then afterwards during the American invasion in the noughties with the Taliban, in a battle it was neither culturally nor geographically related to. It would've brought its own set of problems in its society and stalled the growth of its economy, causing security issues, problems which are affecting Pakistan till date.

It's interesting to see the divergence in ideologies and state objectives between West and East Pakistan. West Pakistan/Pakistan has always strived to achieve a strong military state and project its power since its creation. When India was in its nascent stage as a country, fresh from independence and not in a position to join in any of the camps with full conviction, Pakistan readily joined in the American camp very soon after its independence during the cold war and didn't sit on the wall like India did. Since then, it has always strived to create a strong military and procured nukes to stand up against any threat. Military wise, Bangladesh and Pakistan are not comparable by any standards.

Meanwhile Bangladesh focussed primarily on its human resource development and social upliftment policies, increasing the quality of their human capital, so that they would be in a position to power the growth engine of their economy, as it is happening right now. With this strategy, it has fast surpassed Pakistan's economy but that has only occurred because they have put their military ambitions on the back burner and Bangladesh wouldn't have been able to replicate its growth success if it had been in a constant state of war.

It's basically the age old brain vs brawn debate. Pakistan I feel is more inspired from the past might of the powerful Islamic empires and the zenith of their power in the subcontinent, therefore more motivated towards power projection; whereas while Bengalis are also inspired by islamic empires, the Bengali culture of intellectualism plays a strong role in their concerted efforts towards producing a high quality of human capital. I suppose both are necessary for a successful state, although we can argue the proportions.

 

[Giannis]

Most Pakistanis really don't care about this subject, most of the comments theorizing about what happened and "what could've been" are from our neighbors. People keep regurgitating the same old oversimplified narratives and I could waste my time and energy correcting them but I'm not cause guess what? Most Pakistanis don't give two hoots about it. It's been 50 years, time for y'all to move on.

 

[sweep_shot]

Most Pakistanis really don't care about this subject, most of the comments theorizing about what happened and "what could've been" are from our neighbors. People keep regurgitating the same old oversimplified narratives and I could waste my time and energy correcting them but I'm not cause guess what? Most Pakistanis don't give two hoots about it. It's been 50 years, time for y'all to move on.

I totally agree.

Most Bangladeshis also no longer talk about these or think about these. They have better things to do.

Truth be told, British Empire did much more damage to Bangladesh during their 200-year rule.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

I totally agree.

Most Bangladeshis also no longer talk about these or think about these. They have better things to do.

Truth be told, British Empire did much more damage to Bangladesh during their 200-year rule.

How much damage did the British?
British did the damage in United India.
Pakistan did damage after separation.

Pakistani military force massacred more than 3 million people and raped more than 5 lakh women. Besides genocidal violence, there was massive destruction of infrastructure, food shortage, and collective depression.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

At its inception in 1971, most people reckoned Bangladesh would be a failed state. Fifty years later, it is now evident that though Pakistan is a failed state, in contrast, Bangladesh is an economically and socially developing secular country. That’s the beauty and achievement of Bangladesh.

Kudos to Sheikh Hasina.

 

[RajBan]

At its inception in 1971, most people reckoned Bangladesh would be a failed state. Fifty years later, it is now evident that though Pakistan is a failed state, in contrast, Bangladesh is an economically and socially developing secular country. That’s the beauty and achievement of Bangladesh.

Kudos to Sheikh Hasina.

Absolutely. Hasina as a leader is an envy for the Indian side of Bengal which has witnessed socio-political decay of mammoth proportions in last 40 years. Started with clueless Congress, then inept Left, expedited by corrupt TMC and then finally illiterate BJP. Not a single leader of worth in this tenure with any form of vision other than pettiness and selfish interests.

 

[Varun]

Absolutely. Hasina as a leader is an envy for the Indian side of Bengal which has witnessed socio-political decay of mammoth proportions in last 40 years. Started with clueless Congress, then inept Left, expedited by corrupt TMC and then finally illiterate BJP. Not a single leader of worth in this tenure with any form of vision other than pettiness and selfish interests.

Mamata Banerjee is going to be the next Prime Minister of India.

You heard it here first.

 

[Napa]

Mamata Banerjee is going to be the next Prime Minister of India.

You heard it here first.

For six months only after that Mayawati and Laloo Prasad Yadav will leave the coalition as BJP will promise to make them PMs. For details, read up about Janata Party government in the late 1970s.

 

[Itachi]

Mamata Banerjee is going to be the next Prime Minister of India.

You heard it here first.

Didi doesn't have the same aura as modi in order to hold the throne for long.

 

[Napa]

Didi doesn't have the same aura as modi in order to hold the throne for long.

More importantly, she isn't a national leader, and doesn't have a national party behind her like Modi does.

 

[Local.Dada]

Better hope that BD doesn't invest too much in the military, one day they may decide they don't want a fence dividing their state in two and take it down to reunite Bengal once more.

Will not worry about it,

Pak is a much superior military power than Bangladesh

It is way more hostile towards India

Shares multiple borders with India and have a lot more animosity and land disputes.

I wouldn’t sweat over Bangladesh.

Also while from what I see while Bangladeshis are fanatical about their language, culture and religion, they don’t have a sense of a false superiority that they are equivalent to a million non-Muslims etc. they are lot more rational which shows why they have overtaken Pakistan in a lot of factors despite having a lot more challenges. Being friendly with India helped them get there too probably.

 

[Local.Dada]

Wait did someone say Bangladesh has same culture as India so they separated but Pakistan has different culture.

The last name of chief of Pakistan army is Bajwa that’s as Indian of a last name as it gets.

As I said Bangladeshis seem a lot more rational and at least don’t have a delusional sense of history. That’s probably why their country has done relatively better too

 

[NishanKonar]

Not everything is about money. You will learn that eventually.

As Shahrukh Khan once famously said - money is not everything , but make sure you earn enough before you think of such nonsense

 

[Savak]

Bengalis shared more with India than Pakistan. Back then East Pakistanis

 

[Local.Dada]

Bengalis shared more with India than Pakistan. Back then East Pakistanis

Have you seen Pakistani Punjabi weddings, I don’t know if they look any different from Indian Punjabi weddings. I can understand if you are talking about Pashtuns,Balochis or ethnic groups as we approach towards Afghan and beyond but I don’t get how Punjabis the ruling class and Mohajir community are different to their Indian counterparts while compared to Bengalis.

Maybe the question is why haven’t these groups respected their language and culture like the Bangladeshis.

 

[Kianig89]

Patience Tolerance Sensibility Leadership all that was required

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Military dictatorship is the reason that Bangladesh separated. Had Ayub Khan and the generals not taken over Bangladesh would still be part of the country. I dont think their is a parallel anywhere in the world, where the majority has separated from the minority. Usually its the minority who lead secessionist movements.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

West Pakistan shouldn't have treated East Pakistan like its colony for starters. They exploited East Pakistan economically despite more revenue coming from the latter, imposed a foreign language on them that they do not understand or speak, had disproportionately little representation in the military, their leaders ignored East Pakistan despite it being ravaged by cyclones and floods, and also looked down on them with racist connotations.

The division was always going to happen. If all these things hadn't happened, maybe the union would have remained intact. Yes, the two territories being separated by a bitter enemy would always remain dangerous to sovereignty, but Bangladesh could probably have existed like the Nakhchivan autonomous republic that's part of Azerbaijan, separated by Armenia, with a road passing through Armenia connecting Azerbaijan and Nakhchivan, which is manned by Russian peace keeping soldiers. Perhaps something of that sort could have happened here, with a road passing through India connecting the two Pakistans on the east and the west, if Kashmir was not a source of conflict between the two countries.

Why would the majority have an autonomous republic? Those are done to protect the minority. Had their been fair election Bengali's would have dominated Pakistani politics, and they would be the ones fighting to keep the country intact.

 

[Giannis]

It should have never been a part of Pakistan, I support the 3 state solution proposed by Jinnah and Bengali nationalists - create an independent United Bengal, they would've been an ally to Pakistan and would be much better off than being part of Pakistan or what is now Bangladesh, they would even have a much better cricket team.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The west Pakistani and Bengali cultures couldn’t peacefully coexist either and this is why the Two Nation Theory failed. It’s assumption that Subcontinent Muslims are one nation proved to be fantasy.

Proponents of the theory - from Sheikh Sirhindi to Syed Ahmad to Allama Iqbal to Jinnah - all failed to recognize that religious unity cannot overcome sociocultural differences.

They viewed everything through the prism of religion. Everything was black and white for them and this why we ended up with a chaotic country like Pakistan that was doomed to fail since it’s inception.

If you want to say the two nation theory has failed because of 1971 that's fair. But the one nation theory failed in 1947.

Bangladesh is doing really well economically today. Imagine if India offered Went Bengal a chance to join Bangladesh, how many Hindus would support that? I would imagine it would be close to zero.

What if Bangladesh was a Hindu majority country? I would imagine far more Hindus of West Bengal would be open to the idea of a United Bengali then.

That is the two nation theory in essence. One can argue it should have been applied to each ethnicity instead of the subcontinent as a whole.

Religion matters. As much as liberals would prefer a world where it didn't, it does. It might not unite people of different cultures, but it certainly divides people of similar cultures.

The proponents of the theory had one-track minds. They failed to realize the bitter truth that a Bengali Muslim is more likely to get along with a Bengali Hindu than a Punjabi Muslim.

And as far as Bengali Muslims not being able to get along with Punjabi Muslims, there are million of Bengali Muslims in Karachi. Same with Punjabi Muslims. They get along fine.

And i would say the same among any of the ethnic groups among the Indo-Aryan languages. A Hindu/Muslim would get along with people of their own religion more than they would of someone of the other religion of the same ethnic group. This is the "bitter truth".