What India should learn from Pakistan to be successful in England?

[srh]

Pakistan has had quite a success in England. What India should learn from Pakistan to be successful in England?

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Pakistan performed better than India, no doubt.

But, it's enough if India learns from their own mistakes.

 

[kuskash]

There are other better teams from which India should learn such as SA, AUS

 

[srh]

The reason I picked Pakistan is because Pakistan is also a South Asian team like India and even have more or less the same kind of people like India

 

[Big Mac]

India should learn from England and stop selecting spinners on the basis of their batting ability

 

[j_kazmi]

I think our batsmen were generally more competent than the Indian batsmen in 2016 series and to an extent in this years series aswell.

Our batsmen weren’t great but they collectively got the job done.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan have these training camps before tours which I think are very useful . Also playing county teams and ireland gives you good time to acclimatise. Hopefully, we prepare better for future tours.

 

[bujhee kom]

England suits Pk for some reason.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not bottle in a test match...

 

[Markhor]

Preparing helps.

Ridiculous to cut short the only practice match you had, and to pretend the LOIs were part of "acclimatisation". The white ball doesn't swing an inch in England and are no indication of Test match conditions.

 

[MenInG]

Preparing helps.

Ridiculous to cut short the only practice match you had, and to pretend the LOIs were part of "acclimatisation". The white ball doesn't swing an inch in England and are no indication of Test match conditions.

Whilst that may be true for the 1st match, one would think that by the time Indians arrive for the 4th Test, they have had all the prep they need!

 

[cricketjoshila]

Whilst that may be true for the 1st match, one would think that by the time Indians arrive for the 4th Test, they have had all the prep they need!

Some nutjob thought playing LoIs with white kookaburra prepares you to play red dukes.

Then you reduce the number of days of the practice match because the hotel there didnot have AC.

So by the time you come to Test number 4 you are 2-1 down and a mistake like selecting a injured player means you lose the test series.

 

[UP]

Start playing in London (beware, matches in London don’t count )

 

[El Generico]

There are other better teams from which India should learn such as SA, AUS

Pakistan has done really well in their last few tours to England, so what's wrong with learning from them?

 

[sjahmed23]

Stop chasing money. quality > quantity. Pakistan does a lot of things poorly but they humble themselves to every opportunity and look to win. Indian players think they are world beaters because of a few “crores” they make in IPL.

 

[Bilal7]

- Need to have batsmen like Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.
- Need to have spin bowlers like Yasir Shah.
- Need to have a captain like Misbah ul Haq and Sarfaraz Ahmed.

They've done well to get a good group of pace bowlers though.

 

[Bilal7]

5-0, 3-1 and 4-1 in their last three tours against an English side that keeps getting worse. India really need to tone down the IPL nonsense and invest in proper test players.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

Haven't been around much in the forum, but I think it's a bit unfair to bash India for this series. Has legit been one of the best adverts for test-cricket in recent times! Truly riveting cricket.

Weirdly enough, India's biggest problem is the lack of lower-order impact. The main reason England one is because they have Stokes, Curran, Ali, Rashid & Woakes who are all top notch lower-order batters. It's like a fail-safe for England. India need the likes of Pandya, Ashwin & Pant to pull their weight more.

I think that's where someone like Shabad is so critical to us becoming a better test team. All the great test team of the past 15 years had a fail-safe lower in their order.

 

[sjahmed23]

Haven't been around much in the forum, but I think it's a bit unfair to bash India for this series. Has legit been one of the best adverts for test-cricket in recent times! Truly riveting cricket.

Weirdly enough, India's biggest problem is the lack of lower-order impact. The main reason England one is because they have Stokes, Curran, Ali, Rashid & Woakes who are all top notch lower-order batters. It's like a fail-safe for England. India need the likes of Pandya, Ashwin & Pant to pull their weight more.

I think that's where someone like Shabad is so critical to us becoming a better test team. All the great test team of the past 15 years had a fail-safe lower in their order.

The only reason India agreed to a 5 test match series is because world cup is next year in England.

 

[zeusathon]

This is how India plays. They have build their players to hit on flat tracks. They are not known to respect the bowlers and to earn runs like Azhar Ali and Misbah used to do. You cant feed it in a single series when they'll be back to their slogging routine after a month or two.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

The only reason India agreed to a 5 test match series is because world cup is next year in England.

Makes no sense considering the England ODI and Test match batting tracks could not be more different. England's ODI tracks are the flattest in the world right now, while their test tracks are the complete opposite.

If that were the case, India should have played a 5-match ODI series instead.

 

[goran]

Nothing. According to certain posters here, India are better than Pak in all other countries except England. So India should not bother about losing in England and take heart from the fact that they are more competitive than Pak in other overseas locations. Also, BCCI should ensure that Pak don't get any games in London on their future England tours, it's that simple.

 

[Kroll]

What should India learn from Pakistan to be successful in England? Play a shorter series - better chance of at least escaping with a draw. Good series though, India fought valiantly.

 

[rollingstoned]

We just need to prepare better. Pakistan played well in 2016 after arriving early and generally do well in England - better than India in recent times - but over 5 matches i don't think they themselves would be drawing or winning this series despite how mediocre this English team actually is. Without wishing to make excuses India's best bowler for these conditions missed the whole series although that has a lot to do with bone headed decision making on the part of the think tank who decided he must play in a jamodi series before a long tour where he really would be needed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

- Need to have batsmen like Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.
- Need to have spin bowlers like Yasir Shah.
- Need to have a captain like Misbah ul Haq and Sarfaraz Ahmed.

They've done well to get a good group of pace bowlers though.

Kohli wipes the floor with Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.

Lol at Misbah and Sarafarz as captains. I hope i dont ever see the day when such players captain India.

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The only reason India agreed to a 5 test match series is because world cup is next year in England.

What was the reason for the 5 match series in 2014?

 

[El Generico]

We just need to prepare better. Pakistan played well in 2016 after arriving early and generally do well in England - better than India in recent times - but over 5 matches i don't think they themselves would be drawing or winning this series despite how mediocre this English team actually is. Without wishing to make excuses India's best bowler for these conditions missed the whole series although that has a lot to do with bone headed decision making on the part of the think tank who decided he must play in a jamodi series before a long tour where he really would be needed.

Pakistan draw a 4 match series 2-2, if there was one more match, it could have gone either away.

 

[aloo paratha]

There are other better teams from which India should learn such as SA, AUS

Why? If you would care to remember your realize that both Australia and South Africa lost when they last toured England, yet Pakistan drew.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

Kohli wipes the floor with Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.

Lol at Misbah and Sarafarz as captains. I hope i dont ever see the day when such players captain India.

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

I'd agree with 2 and 3 but not with 1. You need a stonewaller at the top who can take the lacquer off the Duke ball. Vijay did that in 2014 making it easier for those coming after him, but nobody has done that this time. That's a huge reason for India's loss.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Kohli wipes the floor with Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.

Lol at Misbah and Sarafarz as captains. I hope i dont ever see the day when such players captain India.

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

Far better on rank turners where boycotts grandma couldve bowled like warne. If Shah played on rank turner's his record would've been alot greater then mediocre home rank turner track bully Ashwin. Before you mention it NO UAE does not have rank turners. Dead slow pitches that turn on the 5th day not first ball first session square turning doctored pitches like india.

 

[El Generico]

What should India learn from Pakistan to be successful in England? Play a shorter series - better chance of at least escaping with a draw. Good series though, India fought valiantly.

Is there really that big of a differnce between 4 and 5 matches?

 

[El Generico]

Kohli wipes the floor with Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.

Lol at Misbah and Sarafarz as captains. I hope i dont ever see the day when such players captain India.

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

If you are this arrogant after being trounced in England. I wonder how some of you guys would have reacted if somehow your team was able to replicate Pakistan and actually draw the series?

I guess we will never find out.

 

[aloo paratha]

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

Performances would say otherwise, at least in England. Yasir won us 2 games, and really only bowled poorly in the 3rd test, the 2nd test was a flat track where no bowler did well. Ashwin did well in the first test but has been pretty quiet after that.

For Ashwin, it's a case of trying to do too many different things. He's trying too many variations. He should learn from moeen and just bowl off spinners into the rough.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'd agree with 2 and 3 but not with 1. You need a stonewaller at the top who can take the lacquer off the Duke ball. Vijay did that in 2014 making it easier for those coming after him, but nobody has done that this time. That's a huge reason for India's loss.

That job is with Pujara.

This series the England top order has been worse. They have been saved by their lower order.

 

[Bilal7]

Kohli wipes the floor with Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.

Lol at Misbah and Sarafarz as captains. I hope i dont ever see the day when such players captain India.

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

Gotta love the delusion of some on here. Maybe a thrashing in the next match at the hand of a team who's best batsmen are its bowlers will make some open their eyes.

Kohli has far to go before he's worthy of being compared to an ATG like Younis Khan. However, he deserves respect for being India's sole batsman overseas. Ravi Shastri would lay out a red carpet for Azhar Ali to walk into this Indian team. As for Ashwin, he's not even the best spinner in his own team anymore, it is laughable to compare him to someone like Yasir Shah.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Far better on rank turners where boycotts grandma couldve bowled like warne. If Shah played on rank turner's his record would've been alot greater then mediocre home rank turner track bully Ashwin. Before you mention it NO UAE does not have rank turners. Dead slow pitches that turn on the 5th day not first ball first session square turning doctored pitches like india.

Ashwin did enough at edgbaston. Picked 7 wickets. Not his fault that batsmen couldnot chase 190.

He has been injured since the 3rd test.

There is no comparision between a spinner with 500 international wickets with one who doesnot even have half of that.

And Ashwins team didnt get white washed at home by Lanka or lose tests to WI.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If you are this arrogant after being trounced in England. I wonder how some of you guys would have reacted if somehow your team was able to replicate Pakistan and actually draw the series?

I guess we will never find out.

Forgive me if i dont take views of [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] seriously.

Can you tell me if you disagree that Kohli is a better batsman than Azhar ali or YK? Or is he a lesser captain than Misbah or sarfaraz? Or is Ashwin is a lesser bowler?

 

[the_outsider]

- Need to have batsmen like Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.
- Need to have spin bowlers like Yasir Shah.
- Need to have a captain like Misbah ul Haq and Sarfaraz Ahmed.

They've done well to get a good group of pace bowlers though.

I don't think India is missing a YK but you're right they can definitely do with an Azhar Ali at the top.

We had someone like that last time in Murli Vijay but that's over now.

I don't agree with you that captaincy was the reason we lost though. Granted, Kohli isn't a tactical genius but he's still a very good leader of men and the loss is really down to poor batting not tactical errors.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Performances would say otherwise, at least in England. Yasir won us 2 games, and really only bowled poorly in the 3rd test, the 2nd test was a flat track where no bowler did well. Ashwin did well in the first test but has been pretty quiet after that.

For Ashwin, it's a case of trying to do too many different things. He's trying too many variations. He should learn from moeen and just bowl off spinners into the rough.

Ashwin got injured in the 3rd test. He again got injured today. The commies showed on the 1st day that he is restricting his action.

 

[the_outsider]

Forgive me if i dont take views of [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] seriously.

Can you tell me if you disagree that Kohli is a better batsman than Azhar ali or YK? Or is he a lesser captain than Misbah or sarfaraz? Or is Ashwin is a lesser bowler?

I don't know if [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] is saying Yasir is better or not. Maybe he is. But he is not wrong in saying that we could use a bowler like Yasir who can regularly take wickets in England.

Ashwin is a top class spinner. But he completely messed up this match - there is no excuse for that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Gotta love the delusion of some on here. Maybe a thrashing in the next match at the hand of a team who's best batsmen are its bowlers will make some open their eyes.

Kohli has far to go before he's worthy of being compared to an ATG like Younis Khan. However, he deserves respect for being India's sole batsman overseas. Ravi Shastri would lay out a red carpet for Azhar Ali to walk into this Indian team. As for Ashwin, he's not even the best spinner in his own team anymore, it is laughable to compare him to someone like Yasir Shah.

Kohli is twice the batsman YK ever was. And dont insult ATGs by calling YK a ATG.

Ashwin beats Yasir hands down as a spinner. Yasir shah isnt even a comparision to him.

Delusion is exactly what you have.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't know if [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] is saying Yasir is better or not. Maybe he is. But he is not wrong in saying that we could use a bowler like Yasir who can regularly take wickets in England.

Ashwin is a top class spinner. But he completely messed up this match - there is no excuse for that.

Ashwin is injured. The commies showed how his action was restricted.

 

[Bilal7]

I don't think India is missing a YK but you're right they can definitely do with an Azhar Ali at the top.

We had someone like that last time in Murli Vijay but that's over now.

I don't agree with you that captaincy was the reason we lost though. Granted, Kohli isn't a tactical genius but he's still a very good leader of men and the loss is really down to poor batting not tactical errors.

It's a mixture of those things. India need better batsmen at the top and in the middle order. Pujara and Rahane have not been good enough, despite a good performance here and there. They can't always leave it to Kohli to pull out the special innings. They also need a better spinner than Ashwin overseas. As for the captaincy, Kohli is not a bad captain but he's far too aggressive which puts a lot of pressure on the rest of his team. I can see him being replaced if the Australian tour is a whitewash.

 

[the_outsider]

Ashwin is injured. The commies showed how his action was restricted.

Then captaincy is very questionable and needs to be held accountable.

To play a half-fit player in the series decider when they have Jadeja on the bench is bizarre!

This is the 2nd time the Indian team management has done this on this tour.

They played a half-fit Bhuvaneswar Kumar in the 3rd ODI and we all saw how that went.

 

[the_game]

According to some highly esteemed experts on this forum, we have fluked all our wins there anyway so why bother!

All jokes aside, better bowling attack over the years has helped and that's about it.

 

[ads101]

Very little between the teams really. India are unlucky not be 2-2, which would have been a fairer result.

Pakistan should have clinched the England series in 2016 2-1 if they had not choked that game away. We were the better team.

In 2018 Pak might have been bit lucky to only get 2 matches and we drew 1-1. Not sure we would have drawn given a longer series. England also played a stronger team in the 2nd test with Curran and Woakes, while in the 1st team it was wood and Bess.

Difference between India's current team and our 2016 team is that Pakistan batted better. We had Azhar, Misbah, YK, Sami all put in work. Even Asad to an extent. India had only Kohli and Pujara average something respectable (over 30). Batting responsibility is less spread out.Though England haven't batted that well in this series either, and batted better against Pakistan in 2016. They have a longer tail than India though, so if lots of the lower order chip in, in all adds to the total which has made the difference. But like I said, think India have been a bit unlucky, they'd probably be sitting at 2-2 with a bit more luck.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Then captaincy is very questionable and needs to be held accountable.

To play a half-fit player in the series decider when they have Jadeja on the bench is bizarre!

This is the 2nd time the Indian team management has done this on this tour.

They played a half-fit Bhuvaneswar Kumar in the 3rd ODI and we all saw how that went.

Yes. And i said it here on the forum.

 

[Yossarian]

Ashwin is injured. The commies showed how his action was restricted.

Just like a batsman wrongly given out, or a bowler wrongly denied a wicket, the scorecard doesn't care about close calls, umpiring howlers, numbers of overs lost 'cos of bad weather, or semi-fit players having been picked in the playing 11. All it shows is what counts other than who won, who lost, or whether the match was drawn.,i.e. runs scored, and wickets taken against the players stats, and the match result against the teams stats..

And on that basis,Ashwin is p*ss poor in England.

 

[slipcatch]

Drop Kholi as a captain, one of the worse captain to play for India and drop Shastri as a coach.

If you can’t select a proper team over and over then you aren’t a better captain.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just like a batsman wrongly given out, or a bowler wrongly denied a wicket, the scorecard doesn't care about close calls, umpiring howlers, numbers of overs lost 'cos of bad weather, or semi-fit players having been picked in the playing 11. All it shows is what counts other than who won, who lost, or whether the match was drawn.,i.e. runs scored, and wickets taken against the players stats, and the match result against the teams stats..

And on that basis,Ashwin is p*ss poor in England.

So player getting injured and not able to bowl is equal to player failing?

Btw what are the avgs of Yasir Shah and Ashwin in England?

 

[troodon]

NOTHIng to learn.

We are not a good enough team to win in Eng, SA yet.

 

[happydavy]

I think everyone needs to take a chill pill. Indian team gets too much hype when they win and too much grief when they loose. When match started, I backed england to win. When England was 50/4, I backed it with more currency. Reason is very very simple and that's why I don't blame Kohli and co to lose this test match. In the last 4-5 years, only around in 14% matches, teams chasing in 4th inning won the test match. In 'away' matches that number drops to 7-8% and if you take out zimbo and Bdesh, that number drops to less than 5%. Please understand, how low are the chances of visiting team to win a match chasing a target in 4th inning, it just doesn't happen. This is from a sample set of like 150+ most recent matches. Moment India lost the toss, it was a downhill slope from there. I had mentioned it in the first inning itself, and one mod didn't like it. Numbere don't lie, there was no way india was going to win this match after losing the toss.

 

[Bilal7]

So player getting injured and not able to bowl is equal to player failing?

Btw what are the avgs of Yasir Shah and Ashwin in England?

Ashwin bowled nearly 40 overs in the second innings.

 

[happydavy]

Drop Kholi as a captain, one of the worse captain to play for India and drop Shastri as a coach.

If you can’t select a proper team over and over then you aren’t a better captain.

Yeah rite. Kohli perhaps doesn't select one player of your liking and thats why we lose that test match, rite? That one player alone, who had done nothing special abroad ever, would have won us the match when everyone else failed. I am assuming that one player would be Pujara (Eng) or Rahane (SA).

Most players in this team had been given enough opportunities to prove themselves but they had failed multiple times. I don't give much value to runs scored in India, not because they come easy, but because opposition bowlers struggle so much that even India A or B players would score centuries against them. So an Indian batsman scoring centuries in India is no proof of his overseas capabilities.

 

[the_outsider]

So player getting injured and not able to bowl is equal to player failing?

Btw what are the avgs of Yasir Shah and Ashwin in England?

Yasir averages 40.7 and Ashwin averages 33.

But Yasir has 19 wickets to Ashwin's 14 despite playing 1 less innings than the latter. Although despite playing 1 less innings than Ashwin, Yasir has actually bowled 63 more overs than him.

Interestingly both have the exact same strike rate of 75.

Overall there isn't much to choose between Ashwin and Yasir's performance in England.

But 5fers matter and thats where Yasir goes ahead of Ashwin in England.

 

[the_outsider]

I think everyone needs to take a chill pill. Indian team gets too much hype when they win and too much grief when they loose. When match started, I backed england to win. When England was 50/4, I backed it with more currency. Reason is very very simple and that's why I don't blame Kohli and co to lose this test match. In the last 4-5 years, only around in 14% matches, teams chasing in 4th inning won the test match. In 'away' matches that number drops to 7-8% and if you take out zimbo and Bdesh, that number drops to less than 5%. Please understand, how low are the chances of visiting team to win a match chasing a target in 4th inning, it just doesn't happen. This is from a sample set of like 150+ most recent matches. Moment India lost the toss, it was a downhill slope from there. I had mentioned it in the first inning itself, and one mod didn't like it. Numbere don't lie, there was no way india was going to win this match after losing the toss.

Very interesting post.

It makes for a compelling reason for doing away with tosses in tests.

Can you post the stats for winning percentage of touring teams when they bat first?

 

[happydavy]

Ashwin is injured. The commies showed how his action was restricted.

He's not injured but he is very limited with capability. If as a test spinner, you can't develop a rhythm or land balls in the rough, then blaming non performance on injury is an excuse. If after touring Eng/Australia/SA, he hasn't been able to deliver a single match winning performance, then the writing is on the wall.

 

[the_outsider]

He's not injured but he is very limited with capability. If as a test spinner, you can't develop a rhythm or land balls in the rough, then blaming non performance on injury is an excuse. If after touring Eng/Australia/SA, he hasn't been able to deliver a single match winning performance, then the writing is on the wall.

To be fair to him he took 7 wickets in the 1st test. That should have been a match winning performance but was undone by our batsmen.

Ashwin really messed up in the 4th test. But credit should be given that he has performed much better than he did in 2014.

 

[barah_admi]

Whilst that may be true for the 1st match, one would think that by the time Indians arrive for the 4th Test, they have had all the prep they need!

The preparation angle is being overdone. Didnt they play two first class games? Got used to grounds and players in the ODIs and were playing their 4th test in a row. If they can't even get to 200 on a pretty dry pitch against a part time spinner, there's something wrong...for a so called number one side.

Some nutjob thought playing LoIs with white kookaburra prepares you to play red dukes.

Then you reduce the number of days of the practice match because the hotel there didnot have AC.

So by the time you come to Test number 4 you are 2-1 down and a mistake like selecting a injured player means you lose the test series.

England played with an injured Stokes, Ali who had not played tests for months and Rashid who is playing his 4th test in years, all the while Curran is only three tests in to his career yet he has out performed almost all Indian players....aged 19/20.

 

[Pete Rose]

The reason I picked Pakistan is because Pakistan is also a South Asian team like India and even have more or less the same kind of people like India

Pakistan would have been dismissed for 90 today. Case in point was Pakistan losing their second game early this summer in 2.5 days
It’s very difficult to chase 240 odd in the last innings. The only think I would say is that India needs to bat better.

 

[shaz619]

Kohli wipes the floor with Younis Khan and Azhar Ali.

Lol at Misbah and Sarafarz as captains. I hope i dont ever see the day when such players captain India.

Ashwin is a far better spinner than Yasir Shah.

And still you're performing like Bangladesh in England despite being the 'no.1' team, fact is that your players lack heart and are not patriotic enough. The bunch of cowardly little girls are too busy complaining about AC in hotels, how can such kittens ever show a sack in England?

 

[shaz619]

India's tour of England so far for those who are just tuning in for some general highlights:

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION]

 

[Pete Rose]

Yasir averages 40.7 and Ashwin averages 33.

But Yasir has 19 wickets to Ashwin's 14 despite playing 1 less innings than the latter. Although despite playing 1 less innings than Ashwin, Yasir has actually bowled 63 more overs than him.

Interestingly both have the exact same strike rate of 75.

Overall there isn't much to choose between Ashwin and Yasir's performance in England.

But 5fers matter and thats where Yasir goes ahead of Ashwin in England.

Yeah, but yasir has the 10-fer at lords in 2016. Big contributor to our win there

 

[barah_admi]

Answering the thread....I'm not sure. The problem is India are ranked number one after a long, long home season. Their players have grown complacent and unwilling on too much money for too little (hard) work. They can not apply themselves. Kohli fails yet again in a crunch chase and has stylish as he looked at times, he should have reined it in a bit, maybe looked ugly...was it Pat Cash who said you have to win ugly sometimes?

I applaud Pujara for his first innings, without that, India would have looked even more embarrassing.

I also applaud the Indians bowlers, some of whom do not really possess a lot of natural talent or flair but have applied themselves effectively (Sharma, Pandya), others who do (Shami, Bumrah) but their spinner, their greatest wicket taker this decade, fell flat...3 times. Why? Why can he not do what Warne, Murali, Ajmal and Shah have done before him? Why can he not adapt his pace and trajectory? The coaches need to figure it out or find someone else.

Pakistan have been able to do the opposite of all that, look ugly at times (who remembers the stoic but flair less innings of Misbah, Ali and Shafiq from 2016?), play within their confines and have good enough spinners to win matches away. All in all, Pakistan have been professional and ego-less. India have not.

The media machine that surrounds them, now heavily invested by Sky, hyped them to the skies...told us this was worth a 5 test series (admissions said otherwise), told us India were a great side (results showed us otherwise) and that a star like Kohli would be enough...Jimmy, Broad, Rashid and a few others had something else to say about that.

Win ugly. If a team can not do that, they can not be great.

 

[Pete Rose]

Kohli is twice the batsman YK ever was. And dont insult ATGs by calling YK a ATG.

Ashwin beats Yasir hands down as a spinner. Yasir shah isnt even a comparision to him.

Delusion is exactly what you have.

Agree with the bit about Yk.
Surely you are a bit harsh on Yasir, though

 

[kuskash]

Pakistan has done really well in their last few tours to England, so what's wrong with learning from them?

Really well? I do understand they did not lose the series but they did not win either!!! Surely better than Indian performances though.

 

[Finisher]

So player getting injured and not able to bowl is equal to player failing?

Btw what are the avgs of Yasir Shah and Ashwin in England?

Which 1 has more wickets in England?

 

[happydavy]

To be fair to him he took 7 wickets in the 1st test. That should have been a match winning performance but was undone by our batsmen.

Ashwin really messed up in the 4th test. But credit should be given that he has performed much better than he did in 2014.

He averaged 33 in 2014 and he's averaging 33 in this series, so don't think he had performed better. A couple of months back he was talking about his county experience and all that.

Forget the average or wickets for a moment, the guy seems no threat to opposition after 1st test, even the tailenders are reading his variations.

 

[Hasan123]

Pick the right team and prepare correctly with warm up games .

 

[El Generico]

Forgive me if i dont take views of [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] seriously.

Can you tell me if you disagree that Kohli is a better batsman than Azhar ali or YK? Or is he a lesser captain than Misbah or sarfaraz? Or is Ashwin is a lesser bowler?

I agree that Kohli is a better overall bat than Azhar or YK but him being a better captain than Sarfaraz is wrong imo. I am not sure why you are making it seem like it's obvious that Kohli is a better leader than Sarfaraz.

A captain is judged by the success he has had, Sarfaraz has been successful at every level and has a U-19 WC, multiple domestic wins, CT, as well as a drawn test series against England on his record to name a few. All this despite leading a side that is not as star studded as the one Kohli has got.

Kohli has had some highs as well but what has he done that matches let alone surpasses what Sarfaraz has done as captain?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ashwin bowled nearly 40 overs in the second innings.

Commentators showed how Ashwin was restricting his action. Btw he is injured again.

 

[El Generico]

Really well? I do understand they did not lose the series but they did not win either!!! Surely better than Indian performances though.

Considering India isn't able to even manage that, it may be more realistic to learn from Pakistan then try to look at SA/Aus.

 

[Yossarian]

So player getting injured and not able to bowl is equal to player failing?

Yes. As far as the scorecard and match results are concerned. I've never noticed there being a separate column on the scorecard that says "Did not bowl as much as he could have done 'cos the bowler was injured" - but then again, I've never seen the scorecard that the Indian team uses;

 

[Savak]

I lol at the talk of India's biggest positive being their bowling attack and performances. These were bowling friendly conditions just like the ones Pakistan got in 2010 with Asif and Amir. In fact the Indian bowling attack is to be blamed for allowing England to recover from 86/6 to 270 all out in the first innings.

In fact Pakistan's 2-2 result in 2016 is severely under rated because in predominantly much flatter wickets our bowling attack spearheaded the team to two victories and on a bowling friendly wicket in 2018 our team beat England in their own conditions with an inexperienced team and not as highly ranked as Indian.

The Indian team came into this series with a number one ranking and with a so called aggressive captain in Kohli

 

[rollingstoned]

Pakistan draw a 4 match series 2-2, if there was one more match, it could have gone either away.

i said they played well in that series, read my post. it had to do with Kakool camp and arriving early, going in undercooked never helps. a 2 test series doesn't reveal much OTOH. Even Sri lanka won in 2014, and we would have in that same year if it was just a 2 test series.

 

[the_outsider]

One thing India can surely learn from Pakistan is lower order contribution.

For Pakistan, Shadab and Faheem scored some crucial runs in the last series.

India's lower order has done f-all so far.

England's lower order has outscored India's by over 200 runs.

The gap between India's lower order and that of other good teams is massive.

 

[slipcatch]

Yeah rite. Kohli perhaps doesn't select one player of your liking and thats why we lose that test match, rite? That one player alone, who had done nothing special abroad ever, would have won us the match when everyone else failed. I am assuming that one player would be Pujara (Eng) or Rahane (SA).

Most players in this team had been given enough opportunities to prove themselves but they had failed multiple times. I don't give much value to runs scored in India, not because they come easy, but because opposition bowlers struggle so much that even India A or B players would score centuries against them. So an Indian batsman scoring centuries in India is no proof of his overseas capabilities.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[lehen]

Batting and batting

 

[PakPremi]

Not only Ashwin but Stokes was also injured in this match- so much so that he hardly bowled in first inning. Both Stokes and Woakes have been marred with injuries this series.

 

[MenInG]

One thing India can surely learn from Pakistan is lower order contribution.

For Pakistan, Shadab and Faheem scored some crucial runs in the last series.

India's lower order has done f-all so far.

England's lower order has outscored India's by over 200 runs.

The gap between India's lower order and that of other good teams is massive.

I know its good they scored but to me that was an embarrassing thing - basically only works so many times. Top order have to contribute