What is or has been India's legacy to the world?

[sjahmed23]

Sorry but it seems like you are saying things for the sake of responding or having the last word - maybe you did not intend it that way.

#1 - Being successful as an employee is not a negative thing by itself. No need to use the word "sheepish". Majority percentage of Pakistanis in this very forum will be employees themselves.

#2 - Claiming ALL Pakistanis are in a certain way is generalization to suit your point. We know that massive level generalization involving 100s of millions of people is not accurate.

#3 - Going by your own point - look at the number of Indian origin founders of companies (people who started the businesses and hence not "sheep" by your definition. You do not have the equivalent population adjusted Pakistani origin FOUNDERS of companies. Ask yourself why that is so? Do you think being a CEO of Google/Microsoft/IBM/Mastercard/Pepsi etc is being a "Sheep"? Do you think being partners in prominent venture capital or private equity firms that control many mid-market CEOs is being a "sheep"? Do you think running hedge funds taking active positions in boards of publicly listed firms is being a "sheep"? I think such terms may originate from historically inaccurate generalizations that some Pakistanis may have about themselves and about Indians (opinions without self awareness IMO).

#4 - Exporting labor is not an achievement of India but consistent showing of bright minds getting into top echelons of businesses bears some testament to their education system, does it not? Surely you can also see that trend? I'm talking about the investments they have made into their education system (which is not world class mind you) but still does prove itself to be multiple layers above Pakistan - their twin country of 1947. India's IITs/IIMs/NITs and whatever else have helped them create that educational infrastructure to have a semblance of competitive knowledge capital.

"but don't bring in Pakistan into it when we never really cared to do that." - You are failing to grasp the macroeconomic point here. Reality - You MUST care about that for the sake of your country's progress. It is proven today that countries without good knowledge capital in their biggest asset (people) will regress relative to those who have that. Saying not caring to do that is basically saying that you are happy to be intellectually backward compared to other countries. Why would you want that?


To your point about why are India's bright minds going to the US if IITs are so good - you are taking things into isolation. Of course the US and western countries overall are better to live than a place like India so as individuals people will want better opportunities for themselves and they will leave if given a chance. My point was about comparing+contrasting India's and Pakistan's knowledge capital (aka educational) systems alone.

Yawn here we go with the ceos again. Indias IITs dont mean jack if its still a third world country with the highest level of poverty. In terms of poverty rate Pakistan is still better than India. Out of 1.2 billion people only a few thousand go to IIT on the government's dime and then leave for western countries while millions sleep hungry at night, if I was an Indian I would be outraged by this.

Pakistan and India were not equals lol! Pakistan barely had any infrastructure or industry when it was founded unlike India. India had every advantage over Pakistan at the time of partition yet it still lacked behind Pakistan until the 90s early 00s.

India had been relatively stable over the last 30 years while Pakistan has been involved in the war against the soviets, putting down the taliban and a proxy war with India who is 6x its size. If you look at it from a neutral perspective then it has already pushed above its weight.

If you are concerned about Pakistan's knowledge capital then please educate yourself start by reading this article written by a german paper about Pakistan being the next big market for tech start up https://www.dw.com/en/pakistan-the-next-big-asian-market-for-tech-startups/a-52183841

 

[amax]

I touched on importance of knowledge capital in another thread and adding that here again. Many people here seem to think economy is a function of industry segments, infrastructure projects, agricultural lands, and $ flowing as a result. Well the one BIG factor behind all of that is people. Specifically the capabilities of the grey matter contained within the heads of the people within that entity ... aka knowledge capital. While Pakistan is much better than the pond **** of knowledge capital (think Afghanistan, Sudan, South Sudan ...) they still have a long way to go when it comes to translating knowledge capital into economic output and eventually their soft power. They need to invest in a network of educational institutions.

Where are Pakistan's equivalent networks of IITs IIMs and NITs? How much resources is Pakistan dedicating for knowledge capital from grassroots level to advanced degrees? Let alone scores of other institutions that Indians have. Granted I feel that the Indians hype up their IITs than what it is due and those are still nowhere near comparable as what we have here in the US but ... combine the Indians' educational network, with a middle class population, non-feudal system giving you opportunities for economic freedom ... now you have a non-negligible section of population with appreciable accomplishments.

Hate to give a very surface level comparison but FWIW consider this ... look up Indian CEOs of all major global corporations in recent times (IBM is also having an Indian CEO now). Pakistan's population is 1/4 of India so should they not deserve at least 25% such Pakistan origin global CEOs of major firms? Where are they? I'm not even getting into high end finance (venture Capital, Private Equity, Hedge Funds) which control all those global CEOs. If you pull up the managers behind all these high end finance firms you can see many Indians behind that. Where are the equivalent 25% of similar Pakistani origin high end finance managers?

Again - I'm not suggesting that Pakistanis are less competent (far from it), I'm showing you the data and the interpretation of why Pakistan's system is stacked against Pakistanis' knowledge potential as of now.

india is 8 times the size of pakistan , indian americans are 10 times the size of Pak americans , pakistan was surviving mainly on british given institutes (UET lahore, King Edwards Medical University and so on), its only after 90s GIKI, NUST and lums were created , they will take some time to make a good alumni network

 

[amax]

Good point. I did not realize Pakistan lost it's middle class due to partition. My understand is that the economic side of Pakistan's creational charter by itself espouses a bigger divide between rich and poor through continued sustenance of zamindari system. India OTOH executed land reforms, abolished the feudal zamindari system thus reducing gap between rich and poor. Middle class exists and continues to do so only when gap between rich and poor is optimal.

In essence my take is that Pakistan may have lost some of it's demographic middle class during partition but they certainly made it a LOT worse through feudalstic governance policies over 70+ years.

Question of my ignorance - how did Pakistan lose it's middle class during partition? Did they not have middle class Sindhi/Punjabi/Pashtun muslims before 1947? Why not?

Pashtuns were owerwhelming rural at partition, Punjabi muslims were also rural with some urban class in lahore , educated urban sector of modern Pakistan was dominated by Pubjabi Hindu Khatris and Sindhis Hindus.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Pashtuns were owerwhelming rural at partition, Punjabi muslims were also rural with some urban class in lahore , educated urban sector of modern Pakistan was dominated by Pubjabi Hindu Khatris and Sindhis Hindus.

Wrong, it was dominated by Urdu speaking migrants from India. Take a look at the history of Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I responded to another post to highlight the difference on why Pakistan does not have an equivalent of what India has (even after adjusting for population). Your concern for my health is touching but perhaps try following the context of the conversation before making blanket statements.

So if we ignore Pakistan, then what in your own words is India's legacy to the world?

 

[Napa]

So if we ignore Pakistan, then what in your own words is India's legacy to the world?

India has always been a land that has gifted to the world noble ideas and deeds like Buddhism. That is part of India's legacy. Be grateful that Indian pharma companies have saved millions of lives of the countrymen of your ancestors, though I assume you do not regard yourself as one of them.

Under Imran Khan’s orders, Pakistan had suspended all bilateral trade with India on August 7, 2019. However, less than a month later, the ban on the import of Indian pharmaceuticals and raw materials used by Pakistan’s pharmaceutical industry were lifted. It is telling that an exception to the trade ban was only made for these products and reflects the state of Pakistan’s pharmaceutical sector. To put it bluntly, Pakistan’s health sector can not survive without these Indian imports.

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/...kistans-dependence-on-indian-pharmaceuticals/

https://www.orfonline.org/expert-sp...-on-pharmaceutical-products-with-india-55211/

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India has always been a land that has gifted to the world noble ideas and deeds like Buddhism. That is part of India's legacy. Be grateful that Indian pharma companies have saved millions of lives of the countrymen of your ancestors, though I assume you do not regard yourself as one of them.



https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/...kistans-dependence-on-indian-pharmaceuticals/

https://www.orfonline.org/expert-sp...-on-pharmaceutical-products-with-india-55211/

I agree that spiritual philosophies coming out of India can be regarded as a legacy, in fact I think I mentioned it on the first page.

Manufacturing medicine isn't something that India can claim as a legacy though, the groundbreaking manufacturers have been mostly western based.

 

[Napa]

I'm simply claiming Pakistanis don't have the sheepish mentality found next door, we're free thinkers and do what we want to do in our lives. If India thinking exporting labor and it's best and brightest minds is some sort of achievement then by all means, but don't bring in Pakistan into it when we never really cared to do that.

Sheepish mentality? Dude, you are not supposed to be a lion and eat your neighbor when you work for a corporation. You are supposed to be a team player. Neither lion nor sheep.

If you want to be a lion from the very beginning, and think being a team player equals sheep, I am sure you can earn enough for food and rent by being a taxi driver.

 

[Napa]

I agree that spiritual philosophies coming out of India can be regarded as a legacy, in fact I think I mentioned it on the first page.

Manufacturing medicine isn't something that India can claim as a legacy though, the groundbreaking manufacturers have been mostly western based.

It takes someone to discover the drug, and it takes someone to manufacture it. Both are essential, can't do without either.

 

[Knight_Rider]

India has always been a land that has gifted to the world noble ideas and deeds like Buddhism. That is part of India's legacy. Be grateful that Indian pharma companies have saved millions of lives of the countrymen of your ancestors, though I assume you do not regard yourself as one of them.
pharmaceuticals/[/url]

https://www.orfonline.org/expert-sp...-on-pharmaceutical-products-with-india-55211/

Name some major drug discoveries by India, that are patented by an Indian pharmaceutical company? Every Lallu panju can make generic drugs.

As for great thinking minds and Gods gift to humanity, all you keep on citing is Gautam Budh. Come on do some research, there has to be someone else out there in the glorious history of Bharat.

Or does the list only starts with Mithun, Govinda and Shatron gan Sinha?

 

[Knight_Rider]

It takes someone to discover the drug, and it takes someone to manufacture it. Both are essential, can't do without either.

Things that are manufactured in India are of poor quality, which is why:

1) Most Indians themselves prefer to pay a premium to buy imported stuff.
2) Compared to China next door, there is very small Manufacturing outsourcing to india.

 

[Napa]

Name some major drug discoveries by India, that are patented by an Indian pharmaceutical company? Every Lallu panju can make generic drugs.

If they can, why don't they?

"This has crippled Pakistan’s pharmaceutical industry which has become so reliant on India to ensure that there is a steady stream of pharmaceuticals in the country. This is all the more concerning in light of the fact that this dependency will not end anytime soon since last year Pakistan imported pharmaceutical products worth $62.42 million, a figure which has been increasing ever since 2015. Furthermore, nearly 40-50% of the raw materials used to produce pharmaceutical products in Pakistan are imported from India."

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/...kistans-dependence-on-indian-pharmaceuticals/

As for great thinking minds and Gods gift to humanity, all you keep on citing is Gautam Budh. Come on do some research, there has to be someone else out there in the glorious history of Bharat.

Or does the list only starts with Mithun, Govinda and Shatron gan Sinha?

If those are your heros, fine with me. To each his own.

 

[Napa]

Things that are manufactured in India are of poor quality, which is why:

1) Most Indians themselves prefer to pay a premium to buy imported stuff.
2) Compared to China next door, there is very small Manufacturing outsourcing to india.

I know for a fact that 99% of medicines that Indians buy are made in India. And India supplies a huge amount of medicines to the world. If you want to continue posting absurdities, don't expect replies from me.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It takes someone to discover the drug, and it takes someone to manufacture it. Both are essential, can't do without either.

You don't get a legacy for copying. I don't even know why you went down that road other than a flimsy reason to post the link for your story about Pakistan.

 

[Napa]

You don't get a legacy for copying. I don't even know why you went down that road other than a flimsy reason to post the link for your story about Pakistan.

You don't get to decide what is or is not a legacy. I consider providing medicines which save millions of lives around the world every year as part of the legacy.

 

[mustang]

Yawn here we go with the ceos again. Indias IITs dont mean jack if its still a third world country with the highest level of poverty. In terms of poverty rate Pakistan is still better than India. Out of 1.2 billion people only a few thousand go to IIT on the government's dime and then leave for western countries while millions sleep hungry at night, if I was an Indian I would be outraged by this.

Pakistan and India were not equals lol! Pakistan barely had any infrastructure or industry when it was founded unlike India. India had every advantage over Pakistan at the time of partition yet it still lacked behind Pakistan until the 90s early 00s.

India had been relatively stable over the last 30 years while Pakistan has been involved in the war against the soviets, putting down the taliban and a proxy war with India who is 6x its size. If you look at it from a neutral perspective then it has already pushed above its weight.

If you are concerned about Pakistan's knowledge capital then please educate yourself start by reading this article written by a german paper about Pakistan being the next big market for tech start up https://www.dw.com/en/pakistan-the-next-big-asian-market-for-tech-startups/a-52183841

You are confusing with things like 3rd world standards that nobody is denying. I'm only talking about knowledge capital and educational infrastructure resulting from past decades of investment in this space between the 2 countries. IIMs/IITs/NITs and other network of med schools sure as hell ain't gonna make India some 1st world lala land and digressing towards comparing India's economy with OECD seems to be your repeated response. Yeah India's tech industry is dominated by services arms to this day but like I said - they may have a dented scratched up car but it is still a car and you saying "no they don't have a car at all because their car is dented" is a flawed interpretation.

Majority of their tech products to this day have been eCommerce focused into the local market. They also have home grown products in manufacturing/automobile/infrastructure but these segments do not get as much visibility as tech industry these days. Of course these homegrown product initiatives are nothing compared to OECD countries but "they have their own car and are improving their vehicle and chugging along at their own pace" - sure as hell beats the neighbor traveling around in his "camel drawn cart" I would say.

Now your point about them not being equals in 1947 is well taken and I agree that it could be the case. But 1947 was such a long time ago and India also did not have any of their network of institutions back then. They built them up over time AFTER 1947 - why didn't Pakistan do that after 1947? Where did they allocate the reasonable portion of education investment as part of their GDP? Whose fault is that?

 

[mustang]

Pashtuns were owerwhelming rural at partition, Punjabi muslims were also rural with some urban class in lahore , educated urban sector of modern Pakistan was dominated by Pubjabi Hindu Khatris and Sindhis Hindus.

Gotcha. Thank you I did not know this. How did that transpire pre-1947? What made Sindhi Hindus and Punjabi Hindus to be more educated compared to muslims of the same region pre-1947? Did they have any advantages specific to them? Clearly the muslims in those areas did not have access to education in the same geographic areas pre-1947 relative to Hindu/Sikh counterparts. What could have caused that?

 

[amax]

Gotcha. Thank you I did not know this. How did that transpire pre-1947? What made Sindhi Hindus and Punjabi Hindus to be more educated compared to muslims of the same region pre-1947? Did they have any advantages specific to them? Clearly the muslims in those areas did not have access to education in the same geographic areas pre-1947 relative to Hindu/Sikh counterparts. What could have caused that?

answere is in the british census of 1931 , most Punjabi muslims belong to agricultural tribes , while little presence of mercantile cast sheikh (khatri in Hindu) , same is true for sikhs as many jatt sikh are into agriculture , also hindu jatts of haryana are also into agriculture (the state with highest honour killing) . Mecantile communities tend to be more prgamatic and more liberal and open to new values.

I think in terms of sindh there is similar scnerio , there werent any fuedal sindhi hindus , while lots of fuedal muslism , dont know the reason in the case of sindh.

Pathan here are Punjabi Pathans (like Imran Khan) , these are non Pashtu speaking pashtusn settled in Punjab.

 

[amax]

Wrong, it was dominated by Urdu speaking migrants from India. Take a look at the history of Pakistan.

You are miscontruing my post , I meant at 1947 and before , educated muhajirs came on 1947. Read about hindu Punjabis of rawalpindi multan and lahore, also sindhi hindu doctors of Karachi.

 

[mustang]

answere is in the british census of 1931 , most Punjabi muslims belong to agricultural tribes , while little presence of mercantile cast sheikh (khatri in Hindu) , same is true for sikhs as many jatt sikh are into agriculture , also hindu jatts of haryana are also into agriculture (the state with highest honour killing) . Mecantile communities tend to be more prgamatic and more liberal and open to new values.

I think in terms of sindh there is similar scnerio , there werent any fuedal sindhi hindus , while lots of fuedal muslism , dont know the reason in the case of sindh.

Pathan here are Punjabi Pathans (like Imran Khan) , these are non Pashtu speaking pashtusn settled in Punjab.

Thank you this is interesting. So the core native population in Pakistan's areas were at a demographic disadvantage when it comes to access to education/knowledge. What about the transplants from India into Pakistan around 1947? Did they come from better educated backgrounds?

 

[sjahmed23]

You are confusing with things like 3rd world standards that nobody is denying. I'm only talking about knowledge capital and educational infrastructure resulting from past decades of investment in this space between the 2 countries. IIMs/IITs/NITs and other network of med schools sure as hell ain't gonna make India some 1st world lala land and digressing towards comparing India's economy with OECD seems to be your repeated response. Yeah India's tech industry is dominated by services arms to this day but like I said - they may have a dented scratched up car but it is still a car and you saying "no they don't have a car at all because their car is dented" is a flawed interpretation.

Majority of their tech products to this day have been eCommerce focused into the local market. They also have home grown products in manufacturing/automobile/infrastructure but these segments do not get as much visibility as tech industry these days. Of course these homegrown product initiatives are nothing compared to OECD countries but "they have their own car and are improving their vehicle and chugging along at their own pace" - sure as hell beats the neighbor traveling around in his "camel drawn cart" I would say.

Now your point about them not being equals in 1947 is well taken and I agree that it could be the case. But 1947 was such a long time ago and India also did not have any of their network of institutions back then. They built them up over time AFTER 1947 - why didn't Pakistan do that after 1947? Where did they allocate the reasonable portion of education investment as part of their GDP? Whose fault is that?

Point is Indian IIT has had about the same level of influence in the Indian society as Pakistan's universities in its society.

Pakistan has had to go through to 4 wars with another country 6x its size, had half of its country split between it's biggest enemy, had to contend with defeating soviets at any cost in Afghanistan, was sucked into war on terror that has gone on for 20 years now creating millions of refugees. Now it has to deal with hindu supremacist regime that threatens to cut of its water supply and wage full on war. This list does not even include the natural disasters and floods that rendered millions homeless or the climate change affects.

Pakistan has been in survival mode since its inception so obviously defense took priority over other matters. Whether that was good or bad is another debate but these facts cannot be ignored.

Indians dont realize how good they have had it over the last 30-40 years.

 

[amax]

Thank you this is interesting. So the core native population in Pakistan's areas were at a demographic disadvantage when it comes to access to education/knowledge. What about the transplants from India into Pakistan around 1947? Did they come from better educated backgrounds?

nearly 90% muslim elite migrated to Pakistan on partition and yes they were better educated by Indian Muslim standards but than after 1971 many uneducated biharis were also repatriated from erstwhile east pakistan , muhajirs make 30% of Pak americans while being just 7% , this clearly shows they were good in education in early days since when pakistan signed Seto and cento in 1950s it was very east to go to US for educated people.

 

[Knight_Rider]

It has to be said that Maulana Abul Kalam Azad did well for establishing india’s educational institutes in early days after the partition. Whereas in Pakistan, military was already busy in toppling the civilian government. Also its true that the land reforms in India (though unjustified and unfair in places like UP and Bihar) had an impact on the balance of power in years to come.

All that said, Indians and Pakistanis are same people with same backgrounds, levels of intellect etc. If it wasn’t for the partition in 1947, we wouldn’t be having this demarcation now on forums like this. The reason why a Pakistani is having to drive taxi or be a shop keeper vs an Indian working in an IT firm is mainly down to circumstances. Given the same environment and opportunities both will perform similarly.

Indians should get out their ego bubble and realise that Pakistanis are not necessarily their enemies. We are the people that are most similar to them, on this planet. Its only in our own mutual interest to appreciate and encourage each other.

 

[amax]

Yawn here we go with the ceos again. Indias IITs dont mean jack if its still a third world country with the highest level of poverty. In terms of poverty rate Pakistan is still better than India. Out of 1.2 billion people only a few thousand go to IIT on the government's dime and then leave for western countries while millions sleep hungry at night, if I was an Indian I would be outraged by this.

Pakistan and India were not equals lol! Pakistan barely had any infrastructure or industry when it was founded unlike India. India had every advantage over Pakistan at the time of partition yet it still lacked behind Pakistan until the 90s early 00s.

India had been relatively stable over the last 30 years while Pakistan has been involved in the war against the soviets, putting down the taliban and a proxy war with India who is 6x its size. If you look at it from a neutral perspective then it has already pushed above its weight.

If you are concerned about Pakistan's knowledge capital then please educate yourself start by reading this article written by a german paper about Pakistan being the next big market for tech start up https://www.dw.com/en/pakistan-the-next-big-asian-market-for-tech-startups/a-52183841

india is a huge mess 1.4 billion people, poverty level touches sub saharan africa in most parts of country fractured society ridden with cast, supersitions , ignorance and so on , vast swathes of humanity will remain poor even after decades of 2 digit growth. But still india is able to create a 300million middle class that is totally based on IT boom post 1990, manpower provided by IITs, played a huge roles in driving that engine, you cant strip others of credit of what is done based on what isnt done. Also IITs/NITs are not first world insitutes but if you apply to good grad schools from outside of US/Europe , you will realize they have very good reputation in academic circles by non western/japanese/south Korean standards.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan has been in survival mode since its inception so obviously defense took priority over other matters.

It could be that country has been in suvival mode bcause defence took priority?

How many times neibhors of Pakistan attacked Pakistan since inception?

 

[amax]

It could be that country has been in suvival mode bcause defence took priority?

How many times neibhors of Pakistan attacked Pakistan since inception?

Pakistan was a new multi ethnic identity created out of nowhere , all modern nation states have some binding factors in history like even in western demarcated in arab world , also pakistan is not a small country , a country of population of size of brazil carved out of nowhere.
Having two openly dsiputed borders with neighbours India and Afghansitan that count for 4500km(80%) of its land border.
I am sure any such state would have a "panic mode " againt internal (separation movments in a newly created country) and external threats speically in early years (even now Pakistan is just 70 years old).
It would require time when Pakistan will start holding its own

 

[Knight_Rider]

A bit of a flawed logic. Afghanistan is no real threat to Pakistan. They have a Pashtuns majority population, which has tribal confiderations across the border. Pakistan has mostly taken advantage of this and cashed in from the americans.

As for the eastern border, only the northern bit of border (in Kashmir) is contested. Whereas India has multiple border disputes with Pakistan, China and also in North east corridor. They are also not on stable terms with Bangladesh, which is the main reason for this anti muslim nationality law and the long running dispute in Tamil areas of Sri Lanka. Other than Bhutan (and in parts Nepal) who is India’s friendly neighbour in the region?

 

[mustang]

It has to be said that Maulana Abul Kalam Azad did well for establishing india’s educational institutes in early days after the partition. Whereas in Pakistan, military was already busy in toppling the civilian government. Also its true that the land reforms in India (though unjustified and unfair in places like UP and Bihar) had an impact on the balance of power in years to come.

All that said, Indians and Pakistanis are same people with same backgrounds, levels of intellect etc. If it wasn’t for the partition in 1947, we wouldn’t be having this demarcation now on forums like this. The reason why a Pakistani is having to drive taxi or be a shop keeper vs an Indian working in an IT firm is mainly down to circumstances. Given the same environment and opportunities both will perform similarly.

Indians should get out their ego bubble and realise that Pakistanis are not necessarily their enemies. We are the people that are most similar to them, on this planet. Its only in our own mutual interest to appreciate and encourage each other.

Good post. A small suggestion- Indians should get out their ego bubble and Pakistanis should also get out of their false history bubble that they are more Arabs and less South Asians. Basically the same people with similar culture albeit political differences. Also consider that Indians' egos is based upon the institutions they built themselves and not from some weird ethnic/racial superiority.

Essentially from a nature versus nurture point of view - the "nature" here is the same in terms of people's competencies but Pakistanis face an unfair uphill battle to accomplish at the world stage thanks to less educational infrastructure (and subsequent less knowledge capital to bank on). Your point about circumstances is very true. Having worked with quite a few Pakistani Americans - they are equally competent and hard working people. They have been dealt an unfair hand because the "nurture" component has failed them due to mismanaged priorities of government spending.

 

[mustang]

Point is Indian IIT has had about the same level of influence in the Indian society as Pakistan's universities in its society.

Pakistan has had to go through to 4 wars with another country 6x its size, had half of its country split between it's biggest enemy, had to contend with defeating soviets at any cost in Afghanistan, was sucked into war on terror that has gone on for 20 years now creating millions of refugees. Now it has to deal with hindu supremacist regime that threatens to cut of its water supply and wage full on war. This list does not even include the natural disasters and floods that rendered millions homeless or the climate change affects.

Pakistan has been in survival mode since its inception so obviously defense took priority over other matters. Whether that was good or bad is another debate but these facts cannot be ignored.

Indians dont realize how good they have had it over the last 30-40 years.

Not denying your points at all and Pakistani people have had bad rolls of dice since past few years. I would say - it is an easy statement to only point at all the external factors - they play a part too and not denying that. How about also looking at the priorities of your own past governments, and where they prioritized? Don't they play a much bigger part as well?

I present you 2 charts showing differences in education spending as a % of GDP between India and Pakistan. Pakistan averages around 2.5% (only hit 3% during couple of years) while India averages around 3.5%. These charts are only from 1971-2013 but if you extrapolate this to 1947-2020 and look at the resulting absolute population adjusted $ figure year over year for 70+ years, you can see what has caused an unfair dearth of knowledge capital for Pakistanis.






Source for Pakistan's graph (71-2013) - https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Pakistan/Education_spending/
Source for India's graph (97-2013) - https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/India/Education_spending/

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan was a new multi ethnic identity created out of nowhere , all modern nation states have some binding factors in history like even in western demarcated in arab world , also pakistan is not a small country , a country of population of size of brazil carved out of nowhere.
Having two openly dsiputed borders with neighbours India and Afghansitan that count for 4500km(80%) of its land border.
I am sure any such state would have a "panic mode " againt internal (separation movments in a newly created country) and external threats speically in early years (even now Pakistan is just 70 years old).
It would require time when Pakistan will start holding its own

Whenever that happens, I think it will be the best period for people residing in country.

 

[mustang]

Point is Indian IIT has had about the same level of influence in the Indian society as Pakistan's universities in its society.

Pakistan has had to go through to 4 wars with another country 6x its size, had half of its country split between it's biggest enemy, had to contend with defeating soviets at any cost in Afghanistan, was sucked into war on terror that has gone on for 20 years now creating millions of refugees. Now it has to deal with hindu supremacist regime that threatens to cut of its water supply and wage full on war. This list does not even include the natural disasters and floods that rendered millions homeless or the climate change affects.

Pakistan has been in survival mode since its inception so obviously defense took priority over other matters. Whether that was good or bad is another debate but these facts cannot be ignored.

Indians dont realize how good they have had it over the last 30-40 years.

Small correction on the bold part. You are referencing only IITs and taken into isolation they mean nothing. My reference is to India's entire network of educational infrastructure - various engineering college networks, medical universities, business schools providing competitive MBA programs, and humanities institutions - all of these together definitely make a MUCH larger impact to Indian kids compared to what Pakistani kids have. This generation after generation yields a much better knowledge capital.

I'm part hispanic and volunteer among low income hispanic neighborhoods (equivalent of big brother big sister initiative) when I get a chance. One of the consistently successful approaches for uplifting these sections is creating positive role models based on academic excellence. I see the same at a larger scale among Indians. Where are the equivalent array academic excellence role models that Pakistani kids also rightfully deserve?

Creating and being proud of a sustainable process that yields an assembly line equivalent of knowledge capital success is definitely the better way forward than the clutching-at-straws statements along the lines of "we have more jazba", "we don't want corporate life because we don't like servitude" etc ... don;t you think? Who cares about corporate servitude - if you have solid education you run your own larger company employing hundreds/thousands or you run your own large investment firms that control multiple companies.

 

[minamino]

Bollywood
Yoga
These CEOs of big players in industries.

 

[AdamM97]

India has a glorious past, but India/Pakistan has had a limited amount of impact on the world in the last couple of centuries. Also, I don’t get why people are bringing up the number of Indian CEO’s in the US, what does that have to do with the legacy of India?

This entire thread is filled with proud ’superpower 2020’ Indians and Pakistanis who are unwilling to give India credit for their glorious past(which Pakistan was part of). Pakistanis should be proud of it as well, intellectuals like Panini, Chanakya and kings like Porus who gave Alexander a hard time in the Battle of Hydaspes(Jhelum) were from present-day Pakistan.

At the same time, we have our neigbours who are adamant on India’s supposed superiority.

That reminds me of the Khorasani scholar Al Biruni’s observation of the Hindus(a reference to the people who lived between the Indus(Pakistan) and Ganges(Northern India), and not a reference to people who believe in Sanatan Dharma):

”The Hindus believe that there is no country but theirs, no nation like theirs, no kings like theirs, no religion like theirs, no science like theirs. They are haughty, foolishly vain, self-conceited, and stolid. They are by nature niggardly in communicating that which they know, and they take the greatest possible care to withhold it from men of another caste among their own people, still much more, of course, from any foreigner. According to their belief, there is no other country on earth but theirs, no other race of man but theirs, and no created beings besides them have any knowledge or science whatsoever...”

Both Pakistanis and Indians have very large and inflated egos, for no good reason at all.

 

[mustang]

India has a glorious past, but India/Pakistan has had a limited amount of impact on the world in the last couple of centuries. Also, I don’t get why people are bringing up the number of Indian CEO’s in the US, what does that have to do with the legacy of India?

This entire thread is filled with proud ’superpower 2020’ Indians and Pakistanis who are unwilling to give India credit for their glorious past(which Pakistan was part of). Pakistanis should be proud of it as well, intellectuals like Panini, Chanakya and kings like Porus who gave Alexander a hard time in the Battle of Hydaspes(Jhelum) were from present-day Pakistan.

At the same time, we have our neigbours who are adamant on India’s supposed superiority.

That reminds me of the Khorasani scholar Al Biruni’s observation of the Hindus(a reference to the people who lived between the Indus(Pakistan) and Ganges(Northern India), and not a reference to people who believe in Sanatan Dharma):

”The Hindus believe that there is no country but theirs, no nation like theirs, no kings like theirs, no religion like theirs, no science like theirs. They are haughty, foolishly vain, self-conceited, and stolid. They are by nature niggardly in communicating that which they know, and they take the greatest possible care to withhold it from men of another caste among their own people, still much more, of course, from any foreigner. According to their belief, there is no other country on earth but theirs, no other race of man but theirs, and no created beings besides them have any knowledge or science whatsoever...”

Both Pakistanis and Indians have very large and inflated egos, for no good reason at all.

Not sure anyone posted about "superpower 2020". Any other "India achieved this or that" is purely a result of the title of the thread. How else would you expect Indians to respond?

I'm among those who brought up Indian CEOs and if you read the entire context - it is because I want to show data points for Indians making progress in the knowledge capital realm. As a new nation in 1947 and as a poorer developing nation, it would be incredibly tough to consistently allocate GDP budget towards educational infrastructure (considering that the ROI is reaped only after 1-2 generations for a newly independent poor nation). This to me is a commendable accomplishment of modern day India that is worth mentioning.

Mentioning CEO names as a vain boast of individual accomplishments is a surface level interpretation. The data and evidence based proof for positive knowledge capital ROI from those consistent long term investments is the system consistently creating accomplished set of people which is why I mentioned some of the known name CEOs.

"They are haughty, foolishly vain, self-conceited, and stolid." - I would argue this applies equally to Pakistanis (if not more) when I hear statements along the lines of "us Pakistanis do not need knowledge capital, we have too much jazba to be in corporate servitude, we are our own small scale trailblazing entrepreneurs so no need for knowledge capital investments" etc etc .... wouldn't you agree?

 

[AdamM97]

Not sure anyone posted about "superpower 2020". Any other "India achieved this or that" is purely a result of the title of the thread. How else would you expect Indians to respond?

I'm among those who brought up Indian CEOs and if you read the entire context - it is because I want to show data points for Indians making progress in the knowledge capital realm. As a new nation in 1947 and as a poorer developing nation, it would be incredibly tough to consistently allocate GDP budget towards educational infrastructure (considering that the ROI is reaped only after 1-2 generations for a newly independent poor nation). This to me is a commendable accomplishment of modern day India that is worth mentioning.

Mentioning CEO names as a vain boast of individual accomplishments is a surface level interpretation. The data and evidence based proof for positive knowledge capital ROI from those consistent long term investments is the system consistently creating accomplished set of people which is why I mentioned some of the known name CEOs.

"They are haughty, foolishly vain, self-conceited, and stolid." - I would argue this applies equally to Pakistanis (if not more) when I hear statements along the lines of "us Pakistanis do not need knowledge capital, we have too much jazba to be in corporate servitude, we are our own small scale trailblazing entrepreneurs so no need for knowledge capital investments" etc etc .... wouldn't you agree?

It applies equally as much to Pakistanis. Read my post again, the word Hindu is a reference to the people who lived between the Indus River and the Ganges. After all, Pakistanis from(Punjab, Sindh and AJK) share common ancestry with Northern Indians.

Coming back to the CEO part, I still can't see what the number of Indian CEO's has to do with India's legacy on the world. If anything, it is a sign of India's emphasise on education since its independence. I also think that India's large population is bound to produce a couple of great Indian minds, so quantity is a big factor as well.

Definition of Legacy: something that is a part of your history or that remains from an earlier time.

Maybe I'm missing some context(?) but I seriously don't get how the number of CEO's is a sign of India's legacy.

 

[Knight_Rider]

India has a glorious past, but India/Pakistan has had a limited amount of impact on the world in the last couple of centuries. Also, I don’t get why people are bringing up the number of Indian CEO’s in the US, what does that have to do with the legacy of India?

This entire thread is filled with proud ’superpower 2020’ Indians and Pakistanis who are unwilling to give India credit for their glorious past(which Pakistan was part of). Pakistanis should be proud of it as well, intellectuals like Panini, Chanakya and kings like Porus who gave Alexander a hard time in the Battle of Hydaspes(Jhelum) were from present-day Pakistan.

At the same time, we have our neigbours who are adamant on India’s supposed superiority.

That reminds me of the Khorasani scholar Al Biruni’s observation of the Hindus(a reference to the people who lived between the Indus(Pakistan) and Ganges(Northern India), and not a reference to people who believe in Sanatan Dharma):

”The Hindus believe that there is no country but theirs, no nation like theirs, no kings like theirs, no religion like theirs, no science like theirs. They are haughty, foolishly vain, self-conceited, and stolid. They are by nature niggardly in communicating that which they know, and they take the greatest possible care to withhold it from men of another caste among their own people, still much more, of course, from any foreigner. According to their belief, there is no other country on earth but theirs, no other race of man but theirs, and no created beings besides them have any knowledge or science whatsoever...”

Both Pakistanis and Indians have very large and inflated egos, for no good reason at all.

^^^ Very True indeed. The more you get exposure to other nations and people of the world, the more you observe and study how humanity, societies and civilizations evolved, the more you realise that we from subcontinent have been absent for most part.

Despite being in a relative fertile part of the planet and having natural and human resources, we don’t really have that much to claim at the world stage. Even our prestigious Islamic architecture is derived from Persian architecture. Our languages and culture amalgamation of other cultures. Why didn’t anything big ever came out of India (Pakistan) and left a mark on other civilizations?

 

[mustang]

It applies equally as much to Pakistanis. Read my post again, the word Hindu is a reference to the people who lived between the Indus River and the Ganges. After all, Pakistanis from(Punjab, Sindh and AJK) share common ancestry with Northern Indians.

Coming back to the CEO part, I still can't see what the number of Indian CEO's has to do with India's legacy on the world. If anything, it is a sign of India's emphasise on education since its independence. I also think that India's large population is bound to produce a couple of great Indian minds, so quantity is a big factor as well.

Definition of Legacy: something that is a part of your history or that remains from an earlier time.

Maybe I'm missing some context(?) but I seriously don't get how the number of CEO's is a sign of India's legacy.

If you meant the haughty, foolish, vain for both sides then I do agree as well.

CEOs - Like I said, effectiveness of investments in knowledge capital needs evidence based data points (otherwise it can be misconstrued as a subjective claim). The most well known data points of success in knowledge capital are CEOs of large firms. I can share profiles of prominent investors in private equity (my industry) or venture capital but not many people can relate to that. List of Indian CEOs of global firms is not to be seen in isolation (it seems like a vain mention if so) but see it in the context of ROI from education focused investments.

Your point about large population and hence so many CEOs - I addressed this above as well. Pakistan has 1/3 (or is it 1/4) of Indian population. But we clearly do not see the corresponding number of CEOs/investors/researchers from Pakistan. We do regularly see accomplishments from Pakistanis and these are ones who have achieved despite the education system in Pakistan (not because of it). Given the right education investments you could clearly see much more success data points from Pakistan's side as well.

Why this is still a legacy - For starters focusing on education investments has been a part of modern India's past, so why not? I feel that the Indians have created a blueprint for some level of good policy making within the realm of education, knowledge capital investments. Any new country that is a developing nation in recent times can take a leaf out of that playbook and make similar investments in education infrastructure.

Think about this - if you are a poor/developing country and you have no data points for success, will you still trust your gut and invest what little you have into education infrastructure with the hope that it may pay your country off after 2 generations? Even for a new/poor country with minimal military threat, it will be an impossibly tough policy decision without data points showing proofs of success.

This is what India has done for all other poor/developing countries - they have shown that with proper policy decisions in education, countries can reap the benefits of knowledge capital (and resulting economic gain). They have shown that knowledge capital is not an exclusive domain of rich OECD countries but developing nations can also aspire for it -- and this is definitely part of India's legacy now in modern history and into the future.

I feel this is India's biggest and most powerful legacy trumping every other individual item mentioned in this thread. Forget fancy buildings, or inventions, or CEOs or companies or religions or art - what is behind any and ALL such accomplishments of a nation? The minds of its people. So India's biggest legacy is creating a playbook of building something out of nothing to reap benefits from the minds of its people.

 

[sjahmed23]

If you meant the haughty, foolish, vain for both sides then I do agree as well.

CEOs - Like I said, effectiveness of investments in knowledge capital needs evidence based data points (otherwise it can be misconstrued as a subjective claim). The most well known data points of success in knowledge capital are CEOs of large firms. I can share profiles of prominent investors in private equity (my industry) or venture capital but not many people can relate to that. List of Indian CEOs of global firms is not to be seen in isolation (it seems like a vain mention if so) but see it in the context of ROI from education focused investments.

Your point about large population and hence so many CEOs - I addressed this above as well. Pakistan has 1/3 (or is it 1/4) of Indian population. But we clearly do not see the corresponding number of CEOs/investors/researchers from Pakistan. We do regularly see accomplishments from Pakistanis and these are ones who have achieved despite the education system in Pakistan (not because of it). Given the right education investments you could clearly see much more success data points from Pakistan's side as well.

Why this is still a legacy - For starters focusing on education investments has been a part of modern India's past, so why not? I feel that the Indians have created a blueprint for some level of good policy making within the realm of education, knowledge capital investments. Any new country that is a developing nation in recent times can take a leaf out of that playbook and make similar investments in education infrastructure.

Think about this - if you are a poor/developing country and you have no data points for success, will you still trust your gut and invest what little you have into education infrastructure with the hope that it may pay your country off after 2 generations? Even for a new/poor country with minimal military threat, it will be an impossibly tough policy decision without data points showing proofs of success.

This is what India has done for all other poor/developing countries - they have shown that with proper policy decisions in education, countries can reap the benefits of knowledge capital (and resulting economic gain). They have shown that knowledge capital is not an exclusive domain of rich OECD countries but developing nations can also aspire for it -- and this is definitely part of India's legacy now in modern history and into the future.

I feel this is India's biggest and most powerful legacy trumping every other individual item mentioned in this thread. Forget fancy buildings, or inventions, or CEOs or companies or religions or art - what is behind any and ALL such accomplishments of a nation? The minds of its people. So India's biggest legacy is creating a playbook of building something out of nothing to reap benefits from the minds of its people.

.... Is there anything else significant that India has done in the last 2-3 decades besides ceos?

 

[mustang]

.... Is there anything else significant that India has done in the last 2-3 decades besides ceos?

Dude I just explained in detail why CEOs was just an example for the policy making decision and the resulting process behind that. It is not about the CEOs - did you read my prior post completely?

 

[mustang]

^^^ Very True indeed. The more you get exposure to other nations and people of the world, the more you observe and study how humanity, societies and civilizations evolved, the more you realise that we from subcontinent have been absent for most part.

Despite being in a relative fertile part of the planet and having natural and human resources, we don’t really have that much to claim at the world stage. Even our prestigious Islamic architecture is derived from Persian architecture. Our languages and culture amalgamation of other cultures. Why didn’t anything big ever came out of India (Pakistan) and left a mark on other civilizations?

This overall is a good point. For all the natural resources and the demographic resources South Asia as a whole is an under-performer. In immediate past it can be due to political divisions making all countries in the regions over-invest in defense at the expense of human development. These political divisions were a result of "divide and rule" policy of colonizers. The colonization as a result happened because of technology inferiority (main reason for south asian armies to lose against European colonial powers). The European tech advantage was caused by industrial revolution, renaissance period innovations etc.

From a technology standpoint south Asia regressed or slowed down after 11th or 12th centuries. This gap widened enough that by 17th or 18th centuries European powers had a huge knowledge capital advantage over south asia and as a result had - better technology, better governance, better policy making, better social structure, better military tactics -- all of these better because they laid down processes for better utilization of their collective minds.

 

[Knight_Rider]

India was always divided in different kingdoms (even pre-islam), so its not a new phenomenon. Infact India itself is not a homogeneous place still today. When i went to Delhi, i was surprised to see how many visibly different people were there (in terms of physical appearance, language, culture etc). Tribalism is in human nature, so i can see how all these different people would ve had their own small kingdoms in different parts of India.

As for the argument of small size not allowing these kingdoms to expand beyond the subcontinent, there are examples of Greek city states that conquered vast areas, Mongols and infact England!

 

[Buffet]

Not denying your points at all and Pakistani people have had bad rolls of dice since past few years. I would say - it is an easy statement to only point at all the external factors - they play a part too and not denying that. How about also looking at the priorities of your own past governments, and where they prioritized? Don't they play a much bigger part as well?

I present you 2 charts showing differences in education spending as a % of GDP between India and Pakistan. Pakistan averages around 2.5% (only hit 3% during couple of years) while India averages around 3.5%. These charts are only from 1971-2013 but if you extrapolate this to 1947-2020 and look at the resulting absolute population adjusted $ figure year over year for 70+ years, you can see what has caused an unfair dearth of knowledge capital for Pakistanis.

View attachment 98848

View attachment 98849


Source for Pakistan's graph (71-2013) - https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Pakistan/Education_spending/
Source for India's graph (97-2013) - https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/India/Education_spending/

Not putting money for education has resulted in a large number of schools age kids not attending school in Pakistan.




Just to put it in perspective, out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%
Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%

I found it extremely disturbing to see such a large percentage of kids not attending school. This is after they counted religious Madrasa. Pakistani goverment should make primary education their biggest priority because education is biggest leveller.

I had a thread discussing this a while back. If anyone is interested,

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...school-who-should-be-attending-Primary-school

-------------

If country puts so little emphasis on education then you are certainly not going to see lots of CEOs( taking account of population) from Pakistan. Anyway, CEO's are simply outcome and it doesn't have to be CEOs. Just put all kids in school and give them oppurtunity to do well in life.

 

[mustang]

India was always divided in different kingdoms (even pre-islam), so its not a new phenomenon. Infact India itself is not a homogeneous place still today. When i went to Delhi, i was surprised to see how many visibly different people were there (in terms of physical appearance, language, culture etc). Tribalism is in human nature, so i can see how all these different people would ve had their own small kingdoms in different parts of India.

As for the argument of small size not allowing these kingdoms to expand beyond the subcontinent, there are examples of Greek city states that conquered vast areas, Mongols and infact England!

I noticed the same during my 2 years in India - visible levels of diversity among the people.

Agree with the bolded part. Anyone who attributes failure of South Asian kingdoms when getting into pre-industrial age and beyond is not being accurate. All of those South Asian kingdoms (from Afghanistan to Tamil Nadu) because they had much inferior tech know-how.

How/why did the Europeans powers have better knowledge capital just before industrial age and colonizing periods? - You can in one way attribute this to the black plague in European medieval times. This brought about a remarkable cascade of events for them ...

Black plague -> massive death toll among working peasant class -> lower labor pool for feudal lords -> better bargaining position for remaining peasants -> eventual abolishment of feudalism in Europe -> better wages and living standards for peasant class -> better access to knowledge attainment -> better spread of capital and creation of European middle class -> More people being educated -> Wider diffusion of knowledge capital among people -> More number of innovators across various fields -> more innovations and advantages in all fields over non-European powers.

 

[mustang]

Not putting money for education has resulted in a large number of schools age kids not attending school in Pakistan.

View attachment 98852


Just to put it in perspective, out of school % of primary school kids for all south Asian countries,

Pakistan - 24%
Nepal - 5%
BD - 5%
Ind - 2%
SL - 1%

I found it extremely disturbing to see such a large percentage of kids not attending school. This is after they counted religious Madrasa. Pakistani goverment should make primary education their biggest priority because education is biggest leveller.

I had a thread discussing this a while back. If anyone is interested,

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...school-who-should-be-attending-Primary-school

-------------

If country puts so little emphasis on education then you are certainly not going to see lots of CEOs( taking account of population) from Pakistan. Anyway, CEO's are simply outcome and it doesn't have to be CEOs. Just put all kids in school and give them oppurtunity to do well in life.

and this is at a primary school level! - usually drop out rates go higher as we get to higher levels of education. I personally find it shocking that Papua New Guinea is higher in the table than Pakistan. With the right allocation of GDP into education Pakistan could do a lot better with a much higher rate of English speaking population compared to some of the other countries languishing at the bottom.

 

[Buffet]

and this is at a primary school level! - usually drop out rates go higher as we get to higher levels of education. I personally find it shocking that Papua New Guinea is higher in the table than Pakistan. With the right allocation of GDP into education Pakistan could do a lot better with a much higher rate of English speaking population compared to some of the other countries languishing at the bottom.

Yes, Drop out rates increases a lot as you go higher, but if you start with such a low rate in primary then you are shortchanging human capital of country. Pakistan has a huge untapped potential. Country just needs to put education at a very high priority level. In 20-30 years, results will show up.

 

[mustang]

Yes, Drop out rates increases a lot as you go higher, but if you start with such a low rate in primary then you are shortchanging human capital of country. Pakistan has a huge untapped potential. Country just needs to put education at a very high priority level. In 20-30 years, results will show up.

Yep, that assumes 3.5% - 4% of GDP allocated to education each year for the next 20 years. I hope Pakistan do that for their own sake.

 

[amax]

Yep, that assumes 3.5% - 4% of GDP allocated to education each year for the next 20 years. I hope Pakistan do that for their own sake.

after 18th amendement only Higher education comes under federal budget , rest of the education comes under provincial governments and there is a competion between provinces for higher allocation toward it every year.

Pakistan need a minimum deterrence level (and it needs it , sugar coating it with there is no threat and stuff is just being naive ), but since it needs a minimum deterrance level against a 7th times bigger country(not afghanistan) , it needs to to dump lots of its resources on conventional militarization , Since pakistan cant afford a costly "conventional parity" , in 2010 national security command thought of an ambitious plan of small low yield tactical nukes, these are very low yield nukes to be used on invading armoured columns in thar desert . After that pakistan decided to freeze its defence expenditures and increase its spending on development budget(health , education, infra) ,so devlopment budget is increasing every year . With peace in Afghanistan more budget will be available for spending.

according to world banks latest stats its 2.9 in 2017 up from just 2.0 in 2010

 

[mustang]

after 18th amendement only Higher education comes under federal budget , rest of the education comes under provincial governments and there is a competion between provinces for higher allocation toward it every year.

Pakistan need a minimum deterrence level (and it needs it , sugar coating it with there is no threat and stuff is just being naive ), but since it needs a minimum deterrance level against a 7th times bigger country(not afghanistan) , it needs to to dump lots of its resources on conventional militarization , Since pakistan cant afford a costly "conventional parity" , in 2010 national security command thought of an ambitious plan of small low yield tactical nukes, these are very low yield nukes to be used on invading armoured columns in thar desert . After that pakistan decided to freeze its defence expenditures and increase its spending on development budget(health , education, infra) ,so devlopment budget is increasing every year . With peace in Afghanistan more budget will be available for spending.

according to world banks latest stats its 2.9 in 2017 up from just 2.0 in 2010

Y'all already have enough nukes (more than the Indians by some estimate) to drop on the Indians should they cross the border. Isn't that enough deterrence to avoid wars and keep your sovereignty? Why keep funneling more money into military at the expense of other much needed benefits?

 

[amax]

This overall is a good point. For all the natural resources and the demographic resources South Asia as a whole is an under-performer. In immediate past it can be due to political divisions making all countries in the regions over-invest in defense at the expense of human development. These political divisions were a result of "divide and rule" policy of colonizers. The colonization as a result happened because of technology inferiority (main reason for south asian armies to lose against European colonial powers). The European tech advantage was caused by industrial revolution, renaissance period innovations etc.

From a technology standpoint south Asia regressed or slowed down after 11th or 12th centuries. This gap widened enough that by 17th or 18th centuries European powers had a huge knowledge capital advantage over south asia and as a result had - better technology, better governance, better policy making, better social structure, better military tactics -- all of these better because they laid down processes for better utilization of their collective minds.

having large but low quality human capital is of no use , last major original contribution to civilization to come from south asia was gandhara in northern Pakistan , after this constant invasions from outside resulted in contant turmoil and combine this with infighting as well. Point is that after renaissance of Europe , every thing pales infront of it be it egypt , iran or india or china , what happened in just 300 years after it overshadowed what was done in 10000 years of recorded human history so every other contribution barring that of japnese and chinese post 1950 looks nothing in front of it.
Its useless discussing past other than to learn from mistakes , the point is what we can do in future , both india and pakistan should be focusing on nation building , emancipation of masses and creating quality human capital , its only than they will be start producing global leaders that will contribute to arts and sciences after say 50 or 100 years.

 

[amax]

This overall is a good point. For all the natural resources and the demographic resources South Asia as a whole is an under-performer. In immediate past it can be due to political divisions making all countries in the regions over-invest in defense at the expense of human development. These political divisions were a result of "divide and rule" policy of colonizers. The colonization as a result happened because of technology inferiority (main reason for south asian armies to lose against European colonial powers). The European tech advantage was caused by industrial revolution, renaissance period innovations etc.

From a technology standpoint south Asia regressed or slowed down after 11th or 12th centuries. This gap widened enough that by 17th or 18th centuries European powers had a huge knowledge capital advantage over south asia and as a result had - better technology, better governance, better policy making, better social structure, better military tactics -- all of these better because they laid down processes for better utilization of their collective minds.

having large but low quality human capital is of no use , last major original contribution to civilization to come from south asia was gandhara in northern Pakistan , after this constant invasions from outside resulted in contant turmoil and combine this with infighting as well. Point is that after renaissance of Europe , every thing pales infront of it be it egypt , iran or india or china , what happened in just 300 years after it overshadowed what was done in 10000 years of recorded human history so every other contribution barring that of japnese and chinese post 1950 looks nothing in front of it.
Its useless discussing past other than to learn from mistakes , the point is what we can do in future , both india and pakistan should be focusing on nation building , emancipation of masses and creating quality human capital , its only than they will be start producing global leaders that will contribute to arts and sciences after say 50 or 100 years.

 

[mustang]

having large but low quality human capital is of no use , last major original contribution to civilization to come from south asia was gandhara in northern Pakistan , after this constant invasions from outside resulted in contant turmoil and combine this with infighting as well. Point is that after renaissance of Europe , every thing pales infront of it be it egypt , iran or india or china , what happened in just 300 years after it overshadowed what was done in 10000 years of recorded human history so every other contribution barring that of japnese and chinese post 1950 looks nothing in front of it.
Its useless discussing past other than to learn from mistakes , the point is what we can do in future , both india and pakistan should be focusing on nation building , emancipation of masses and creating quality human capital , its only than they will be start producing global leaders that will contribute to arts and sciences after say 50 or 100 years.

What was this last major contribution from Gandhara?

 

[amax]

What was this last major contribution from Gandhara?

work done in swat and taxila univerisites during hindu shahi period before it runned over by central asian islamic invaders and a millenia got lost in constant turmoil /foriegn rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Shahi

 

[ex-q-zit]

Indian History Not Just About Slavery: PM Modi Scoffs At 'Colonial Conspiracy'

New Delhi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday said India was correcting its past mistakes by celebrating its heritage and remembering its unsung bravehearts who were lost in the pages of history, written as part of a conspiracy during the colonial era.

Addressing the 400th birth anniversary celebrations of legendary Ahom general Lachit Barphukan, PM Modi said the history of India was not just about slavery but also about its warriors, and it was important that the collective sense of history was not limited to a few decades or centuries.

"The history of India is not just about slavery. The history of India is about emerging victorious, it is about the valour of countless greats. India's history is about standing against tyranny with unprecedented valour and courage," he said.

The Prime Minister said unfortunately even after Independence, the history that was written as part of a conspiracy during the colonial era continued to be taught.

"After independence there was a need to change the agenda of foreigners who made us slaves, but it did not happen. The stories of fierce resistance to tyranny in every part of the country were wilfully suppressed," PM Modi said.

He said there were countless stories of victory over tyranny during the long period of repression.

"The mistake of not giving those events in the mainstream is being rectified now," he said.

PM Modi also recalled how Barphukan had kept national interest above blood relations and did not hesitate to punish his close relative.

"Lachit Barphukan's life inspires us to rise above the dynasty and think about the country. He had said that no relationship is bigger than the country," he said.

Barphukan was the famous General of the Royal Army of the Ahom Kingdom of Assam who defeated the Mughals and successfully halted the ever-expanding ambitions of the Mughals under Aurangzeb, PM Modi said.

The Prime Minister said the unmatched bravery of the land of Assam and the northeast was evident as they had repulsed the invasions of Turks, Afghans, and Mughals.

"Even though the Mughals had captured Guwahati, it was bravehearts like Barphukan who won independence from the clutches of tyrannical rulers of the Mughal empire. Barphukan's bravery and fearlessness is the identity of Assam," he said.

PM Modi said in the history of human existence, numerous civilisations that walked the earth seemed imperishable, but the wheel of time brought them down to their knees.

India, which faced unexpected adversities in history and withstood unimaginable terror of foreign invaders, still stood immortal with the same energy and consciousness, he said.

"This happened because whenever there was a crisis, some personality emerged to tackle that. In every epoch, saints and scholars came to protect the spiritual and cultural identity of India," PM Modi said.

He said bravehearts such as Barphukan showed that forces of fanaticism and terror perish, but the immortal light of Indian life remained eternal.

The Prime Minister also suggested creating a grand play on Barphukan on the lines of the 'Jaanata Raja' based on the life of Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj and enact it in every corner of the country.

"This will give a great boost to the resolve of 'Ek Bharat, Shreshtha Bharat' (one India, united India)," he said.

Assam Governor Jagadish Mukhi, Chief Minister Himanta Biswa Sarma, Union Minister Sarbananda Sonowal and former Chief Justice of India Ranjan Gogoi were among the many who attended the concluding ceremony of the two-day birth anniversary celebrations of Barphukan.

During the event, Chief Minister Sarma said, "It is a humble request to historians - India isn't just the story of Aurangzeb, Babar, Jahangir or Humayun." India is of Lachit Barphukan, Chhatrapati Shivaji, Guru Gobind Singh, Durgadas Rathore, he said.

"We should make an effort to see in a new light. It'll fulfil our dream to be vishwaguru," he said.

NDTV

 

[jeetu]

For me i always felt a bit of pride that an Ocean is named after India.

 

[ex-q-zit]

India Will Give Direction To World In "Amrit Kaal": PM Modi In Rajya Sabha

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday said the 'Amrit Kaal' of India's independence will not only be a period of national development and glory but also an occasion when the country will play an important role in giving a direction to the world.

Welcoming Vice President Jagdeep Dhankar for assuming charge as chairman of the Rajya Sabha, the prime minister said the VP was taking charge at a time when the country was witnessing two historical occasions.

"India has just assumed the presidency of G20 and this is also a time when we have commenced our journey into 'Amrit Kaal'. Not only will 'Amrit Kaal' be a period of development and glory for the country it will also be an occasion when India will play an important role in giving direction to the world," said the prime minister as the House met for the first day of the winter session.

PM Modi said in this journey, India's democracy, parliament and parliamentary traditions will also play a significant role.

Hailing Vice President Dhankhar as a leader who has both the elements of 'jawan' (soldier) and 'kisan' (farmer) imbibed in him, the prime minister said the House was fortunate to receive "his able and effective leadership at this juncture in history."

"Our Vice President is a 'Kisan Putra' (son of farmer) and he studied at a Sainik school. Thus, he is closely associated with jawans and kisans," he said.

The prime minister exuded confidence that under the guidance of Vice President Dhankhar, "all members will effectively perform their duties and the House will serve as an effective platform to help realise the dreams and pledges of the country."

"Today you are formally commencing charge as chairman of this house. Many former prime ministers have been members of this august house at some time and many political stalwarts have started their journey from here. I am confident that your leadership will further enhance the dignity of this House and take it to greater heights," PM Modi said.

He also saluted the Armed Forces on the occasion of the Armed Forces Flag Day.

"The country is happy to see the achievements of Kithana's 'lal' (son)," PM Modi said, referring to Vice President Dhankhar's birthplace Kithana in Rajasthan.

Referring to Vice President Dhankhar's humble origins, he noted that like President Droupadi Murmu, who is guiding the country, the son of a farmer has now reached the top position in the Rajya Sabha.

He further said that the House chairperson was an embodiment of the fact that success comes not through means alone but through dedication.

NDTV

 

[ex-q-zit]

"World Returning To Ayurveda": PM Modi Inaugurates 3 Ayush Institutes

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Sunday said the world tried various treatment styles and is returning to the ancient treatment methods of Ayurveda.

The Prime Minister virtually inaugurated the Goa-based All India Institute of Ayurveda, Ghaziabad-based National Institute of Unani Medicine, and Delhi-based National Institute of Homeopathy from Goa.

Modi arrived in the coastal state this afternoon to address the valedictory session of the 9th World Ayurveda Congress (WAC) and Arogya Expo. Representatives from more than 50 countries took part in the Ayurveda Congress.

“The world has tried many treatment methods and now it is returning to the ancient way of Ayurveda. Ayurveda not only talks about physical health but about overall wellness,” he said.

Expressing happiness that more than 30 countries have accepted Ayurveda as a traditional medicine system, the prime minister said we should spread it to more countries and give recognition to Ayurveda.

The prime minister said the Ayush industry has grown from ₹ 20,000 crore eight years (in 2014 when he assumed the office of PM) ago to ₹ 1.50 lakh crore.

"The global market is growing further and we should try to benefit from undertaking medicinal plantation,” he said, adding it will generate more employment.

He also underlined the need for evidence-based generation of the database for Ayurveda which will fulfil the parameters of modern science.

“Modern science and treatment rely on the evidence-based database. The Ayurveda sectors need to generate such a database. The Union government's Ayush Portal already has some 40,000 research studies uploaded,” he said.

The prime minister said during the COVID-19 pandemic, at least 150 specific research studies were submitted to the ministry.

He announced the country will have a National AYUSH Research Consortium soon.

Modi said Ayurveda and Yoga tourism is possible in a state like Goa and the inauguration of the All India Institute of Ayurveda could be one of the steps in that direction.

Speaking on the occasion, Union AYUSH Minister Sarbananda Sonowal said the visionary and dynamic leadership of the prime minister has taken the Ayurveda sector to new heights.

Sonowal said the PM has brought a huge transformation in the Ayush sector and added the WAC has received huge success due to the positive response from India and abroad.

He said the global centre for traditional medicine is being set up in Gujarat.

“It would be 'AYUSH ka amrit mahotsav'", he added.

Goa Chief Minister Pramod Sawant said the All India Institute of Ayurveda at Dhargal will have 50 per cent reservation in seats for Goans.

He said the AYUSH ministry is commissioning projects worth thousands of crores rupees on a single day.

The chief minister announced Goa will have a separate department of AYUSH which will be dedicated towards AYUSH doctors.

NDTV

 

[ex-q-zit]

Family System Can Be India's Gift To The World: RSS's Dattatreya Hosabale

Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh general secretary Dattatreya Hosabale on Sunday said the world is working to protect family values and India can give a family system to the world as a gift.

He was addressing a gathering here at the inauguration of the office building of 'Vishvamanglya Sabha', an outfit inspired by the RSS.

Appreciating the work of 'Vishwamanglya Sabha', especially its women functionaries, Mr Hosabale said Indian culture has always been working towards people's welfare (lok kalyan) and world welfare through 'dharma' (righteousness).

"Every society, including the United Nations, is thinking about protecting motherhood. Many political parties across the world are promising to protect family values in their manifestos. India can give a family system to the world as a gift," he said.

"If we want to give family system to the world, we need to be in an ideal position so that the world accepts our example. People must create awareness in society about this aspect and create such ideal families," Mr Hosabale added.

He also said India had gifted International Yoga Day to the world as well as Ayurveda and Sanskrit, while care and preservation of the environment is something that the country has always practised.

There is also a need for a campaign to protect our culture and 'dharm', Mr Hosabale said.

NDTV

 

[MenInG]

‘Business, masquerading as healthcare’

Most European countries have now banned Ayurveda products due to concerns over manufacturing practices.

In the United Kingdom, Ayurveda products are available but hundreds of items have been banned over the last decade after they were found to be unsafe.

“A lot of products on the market now do not follow classic Ayurvedic instruction but instead are manufactured by private companies,” explains Dr Abby Philips, a hepatologist based in the southern Indian state of Kerala, who investigates adverse effects of Ayurveda.

“They are marketed as food supplements so there is no need for the companies to run clinical trials. They are then given a good ‘seal of manufacturing’ and their products are sold all over the country.”

Dr Philips says he consults between 10 to 12 patients a month at his clinic in the city of Kochi. He says liver and kidney failure are the most common ailments and symptoms can almost always be directly linked to when a patient began taking Ayurveda products.

“People should understand that Ayurvedic herbal medicines are usually not natural and safe and a lot of people are suffering from side effects,” adds Dr Philips.

“It is my strong opinion that I don’t think Ayurveda should play any role in public health. It is purely a business, masquerading as healthcare and people should not opt for it.”

In addition to the financial benefits, the BJP’s promotion of Ayurveda fits their broader Hindu nationalist narrative and the owners of major Ayurveda companies can enjoy a mutually beneficial relationship with the party.

Take Patanjali, which aims to turn over £15 billion in annual sales by 2025. The company is headed by Baba Ramdev, a 57-year-old self-styled Hindu yoga guru who has 11 million followers on Facebook and regularly fills stadiums with his sermons.

Mr Ramdev has regularly appeared on stage with India’s Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, and has vocally spoken out in support of the party, which has in turn publicly promoted Patanjali products.

“There is so much promotion of Ayurveda in India from politicians and other key stakeholders and it is because of this the practice has become so popular in India in recent years – not because of clinical evidence,” argues Dr Philips.

“There is a huge political role and nationalistic appeal. It’s nationalism, tradition and cultural values all wrapped together and sold to the Indian population.”

Shortly after Mr Modi was first elected in 2014, he created an entire new government ministry to promote yoga and Ayurveda and the practice seems here to stay.

Notably, during the Covid-19 pandemic, senior BJP officials appeared in public with Mr Ramdev to promote Coronil, a pill containing 53 plant-based chemicals that the latter alleged would cure a patient of coronavirus in seven days.

There was no scientific evidence for this and the product was heavily criticised by India’s doctors. Despite a criminal case being filed against Mr Ramdev, the government in the BJP-ruled state of Haryana still announced they would still distribute Coronil to the public.

The scandal around Coronil and more recently on the consumption of cow urine have both defamed Ayurveda as a practice in India and could detract from the discovery of important, new public healthcare tools, experts worry.

“In terms of Ayurveda, the challenge is subjecting practices and modalities to much more stringent testing and approvals, but many of these protocols remain to be developed” argues Dr Laxminarayan.

“Certainly, there are many hidden gems in Ayurveda but also a lot that are poorly validated and not supported by evidence. Separating what is effective and safe from what is not is the task that lies ahead.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/me...p&cvid=0ded09431d034b65a96d3aeaa5ff247e&ei=34

 

[Hitman]

Indian-origin Vaibhav Taneja has been named Tesla's new Chief Financial Officer as the previous finance chief Zachary Kirkhorn announced his decision to step down, the automaker said in a company filing on Monday.

Mr Taneja, 45, was appointed Tesla CFO in addition to his current role as Chief Accounting Officer (CAO) of the US-based electric car major on Friday after Kirhorn, Tesla's Master of Coin and finance chief for the last four years, stepped down from the post.

Mr Kirkhorn's 13-year tenure with the Elon Musk-led American EV giant was described as one of "tremendous expansion and growth" in the company filing.

"Tesla thanks Mr Kirkhorn for his significant contributions. Mr Kirkhorn will continue to serve Tesla through the end of the year to support a seamless transition," it said.

"This morning Tesla announced that I've stepped down from my role as Chief Financial Officer, succeeded by our Chief Accounting Officer, Vaibhav Taneja,"Mr Kirkhorn said in a LinkedIn post.

"Being a part of this company is a special experience, and I'm extremely proud of the work we've done together since I joined over 13 years ago. As I shift my responsibilities to support this transition, I want to thank the talented, passionate, and hard-working employees at Tesla, who have accomplished things many thought (were) not possible. I also want to thank Elon for his leadership and optimism, which has inspired so many people," he said.

Mr Taneja has served as Tesla's CAO since March 2019 and as the Corporate Controller since May 2018. He served as the Assistant Corporate Controller between February 2017 and May 2018, and from March 2016, served in various finance and accounting roles at SolarCity Corporation, a US-based solar panel developer acquired by Tesla in 2016.

Before that, Mr Taneja was employed at PricewaterhouseCoopers in both India and the US between July 1999 and March 2016, the company filing said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link:

Indian-Origin Vaibhav Taneja Appointed Tesla's Chief Financial Officer

Indian-origin Vaibhav Taneja has been named Tesla's new Chief Financial Officer as the previous finance chief Zachary Kirkhorn announced his decision to step down, the automaker said in a company filing on Monday.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Good to see India's top talent being cherry picked to benefit the most powerful nation in the west. Long may it continue.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India's legacy to its own citizens is its legacy to the world.

BJP's tea boy Modi was installed by the USA after Nancy Powell visited.

BJP is happy to join with the USA to kill its own minorities.

40-yr-old man rapes 5-yr old girl; leaves minor in field believing her to be dead​

​

40-yr-old man rapes 5-yr old girl; leaves minor in field believing her to be dead

The ASP said that the girl’s parents said that she had gone missing while playing with another child in the neighbourhood around 3 pm on Tuesday.

www.hindustantimes.com

No drones are needed in India, the RSS Hindu saffron extremists are happy on their butchering spree, which is daily now.

 

[Hitman]

India's legacy to its own citizens is its legacy to the world.

BJP's tea boy Modi was installed by the USA after Nancy Powell visited.

BJP is happy to join with the USA to kill its own minorities.

​

40-yr-old man rapes 5-yr old girl; leaves minor in field believing her to be dead

The ASP said that the girl’s parents said that she had gone missing while playing with another child in the neighbourhood around 3 pm on Tuesday.

www.hindustantimes.com

No drones are needed in India, the RSS Hindu saffron extremists are happy on their butchering spree, which is daily now.

Is this the answer to my question to you on the other thread on why India decided to buy oil from Russia despite the US telling us not to?

 

[Hitman]

Good to see India's top talent being cherry picked to benefit the most powerful nation in the west. Long may it continue.

Errr .... one country is providing geniuses to the rest of the world, another neighbouring country is providing .....(if you know what I mean)

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Errr .... one country is providing geniuses to the rest of the world, another neighbouring country is providing .....(if you know what I mean)

No I don't know what you mean. The thread is about India, not Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or any other neighbours. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Devadwal]

Errr .... one country is providing geniuses to the rest of the world, another neighbouring country is providing .....(if you know what I mean)

You nailed it man

 

[daytrader]

Errr .... one country is providing geniuses to the rest of the world, another neighbouring country is providing .....(if you know what I mean)

Which county other than India, is benefiting from these geniuses? Most folks cannot pinpoint any decent innovation or technology coming from India. This is just self praise.

 

[Hitman]

Which county other than India, is benefiting from these geniuses? Most folks cannot pinpoint any decent innovation or technology coming from India. This is just self praise.

I was replying to that particular poster who made a sarcastic post about how Indians are serving companies from foreign countries. At least India has been providing geniuses to the rest of the world. Unless one has been living under a rock, they know how many CEO's India has provided to some of the biggest companies in the world all around the world. They were born, raised and educated in India, and that speaks volumes about the brains and merit of Indians.

What exactly has Pakistan provided the rest of the world with?

 

[Hitman]

No I don't know what you mean. The thread is about India, not Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or any other neighbours. Please stick to the topic.

No matter how hard you try to be ignorant, me and others reading this thread know how hard my post has hit you.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No matter how hard you try to be ignorant, me and others reading this thread know how hard my post has hit you.

That must be why my valid point that India suffers from a brain drain to the benefit of western companies had you spluttering to bring in Pakistan for no reason. Pakistan suffers from the same problem incidentally, if you can look beyond blind patriotism.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Obsessed with fundraising—BluSmart Jaggi brothers ‘wanted to become big too fast. They didn’t’​

Anmol and Puneet Jaggi carried the ‘Army kids’ label as a badge of honour. ‘You can trust a Sikh,’ a client said when placing a large order with them in 2010.​

New Delhi: Just two days after SEBI’s interim order penalising Gensol proprietors Anmol and Puneet Jaggi over corporate misgovernance and fund diversion, Anmol Jaggi apparently put up a strong front at the quarterly meeting of Matrix Gas investors.


“He [Anmol] said that the company is confident, and asked investors to not lose faith in them, and that they will ensure we get good returns. He said that they will ‘take care’ of the SEBI order,” a small capital fund manager, who was part of the call, told ThePrint.


Following the order, however, both brothers resigned from their roles as directors of Gensol. In a statement, the company said that it will cooperate with SEBI (Securities and Exchange Board of India) and the forensic audit of its accounts.
Words of comfort will do little damage control now. Gensol stock has come crashing down as much as 90 per cent from its 52-week high. The brothers abruptly halted the operations of BluSmart, their most popular company, and on LinkedIn, current employees have started flashing the ‘Open To Work’ badge.

The story of the Indian startup space’s blue-eyed boys took a dark turn courtesy SEBI. In an order on 15 April, the market regulator barred the promoters of Gensol Industries Ltd—Anmol Singh Jaggi and Puneet Singh Jaggi—from accessing the securities market until further notice. SEBI prima facie found that funds raised from the public company were being diverted for personal use by the brothers. They allegedly used funds raised for procurement of BluSmart EVs to buy a lavish property in DLF Camellias, took a spa treatment running into lakhs of rupees, and used investor money like a ‘piggy bank’.

Investors and other entrepreneurs, in the meantime, see the downfall of Gensol and Blusmart as yet another indicator that India’s startup story is going nowhere.


“Fund raise, markets, and the economy are slowing down. We have to accept this fact. So everyone will have to pace their path to these aspirations, which were otherwise achievable much faster from 2012 to 2022. The golden period for tech startups is well and really over,” said Ashneer Grover, who has invested in BluSmart and Matrix.

‘Aged like ​

Anmol and Puneet are known for their business acumen, clarity of thought, and calm demeanour, said people who have worked with them in the past.

Sons of an Army officer, the duo grew up all over the country. Anmol, the elder brother, always wanted to be an entrepreneur, but his father wasn’t too encouraging of the idea. It was an internship at Reliance Industries as a college student where Anmol learnt of ‘carbon credits’. He founded Gensol as a consulting firm while in college.

“At Reliance Industries, my job was to sell gas. I learnt of carbon credits there, where if you save on carbon emissions, then the government will pay you, or the United Nations will pay you. That got me hooked, and we created a tagline for ourselves [Gensol]: It pays to be environment friendly,” Anmol said in a conversation with Humans of Bombay posted a year ago.

“This aged like milk,” read a comment under the video.

Started in 2007—the year Anmol graduated from the University of Petrol Engineering and Energy Studies in Dehradun—Gensol provided expertise to their investors in carbon trading, footprinting, and mitigation as well as solar power.

The company quickly occupied the top spaces in India’s carbon trading consultancy firms. By 2010, they had a clientele of more than 350 firms, including Bajaj Hindustan and Zaveri & Co. But the 2008 recession and shutdown of factories in the UK meant carbon trading had suffered, Puneet revealed in a ‘Founder Thesis’ podcast published a year ago.

While Anmol was tapping into the renewable energy spaspace, his brother Puneet was graduating from IIT Roorkee. As part of a programme before joining Shell as an executive, Puneet got 100 days to travel and visit solar farms all over the country. He saw the potential for knowledge and wealth gain in the solar industry.

“We pivoted from being a carbon consultant to a solar consultant. Eventually, we became consultants to projects close to 33,000 megawatts. India has 60,000 megawatts installed, that’s practically every other megawatt of installed projects that is there in the country,” Puneet said during the ‘Founder Thesis’ conversation.

Soon, the company started designing mega solar projects in India. The first one it designed and created was a 10 kilowatt project in Delhi, which gave it great margins and a first mover advantage. The brothers then moved into the operation and maintenance of these plants, and by 2017-18, they had 800 employees, and a revenue generation of Rs 100 crore.


Anmol and Puneet, both engineers, were itching to launch a tech business, and explored the electric vehicle industry, which was then at a nascent stage. In 2016, they launched Prescinto, which helped businesses run solar and wind energy projects more efficiently. Riding on a high, the brothers listed Gensol as a public company in September 2019.

The same year, they founded BluSmart with 15 cars, which would go on to become the largest electric fleet in the country with 8,000 EVs.

“Every entrepreneur wants to see his company’s name going around the ticker on the screen; there’s a certain dream and thrill for an entrepreneur,” Puneet said in the podcast.

Just a month ago, Puneet was boasting on X about his reliability.

“A large client gave an order because in his words, ‘you can trust a Sikh,’” he wrote as one of the ‘milestones’ of his career.

 

[Suleiman]

Taj Mahal. Universal symbol for India and its rich Islamic history.

Subhan Allah

 

[sweep_shot]

Call center scam.

IPL.

High immigration from India (both legal and illegal).

BJP WhatsApp University.

Hindutva movement.

Leadership in whataboutism.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pre-modern India has a rich legacy of science, mathematics and architecture. A legacy we should all be proud of with contributions from Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains.

The Republic of India hasn't contributed anything to the world yet, but it is a young country trying its best to progress.

 

[RexRex]

Call center scam.

IPL.

High immigration from India (both legal and illegal).

BJP WhatsApp University.

Hindutva movement.

Leadership in whataboutism.

Say thank you to India for creating your country Bangladesh. That's a legacy you should be grateful for..