What is or has been Pakistan's legacy to the world?

[hoshiarpurexpress]

As another post I saw raised this question about India,
I wanted to learn from Pakistani brothers that what do they think has been Pakistan's legacy till now.

Its a newish country in terms of existence, but a rich history of old civilization. What do Pakistani's think their legacy and contribution to the world till now.

 

[Kroll]

Great food for starters (no pun intended).

Done right, one of the tastiest foods in the world, better than India's.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Great food for starters (no pun intended).

Done right, one of the tastiest foods in the world, better than India's.

for a meat loving person i agree. Not sure if there are much vegetarian options.
Better than other country is quiet subjective though.. I love sub continental curries but I love Spanish food the most.

 

[rockyboy2018]

Being a poor country thenselves - it is their generiosity. They welcomed millions of immigrants from afghanistan in their country without any checks so that they could survive. I could not tell this about any other country and nationality. Now I am living in the western world and interacting with many nationalities of the world - we are not perfect given our resources I must say our generiosity is second to none.

 

[Nadeemp]

Hospitality
Nusrat fateh Ali
Mantoo ( in my opinion one the Best short story writers)

What do you mean we are very generous. Hospitality (mehman nawazi) yes. If you mean generous in giving money. That’s not true. Indian and Pakistani food is very similar.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Being a poor country thenselves - it is their generiosity. They welcomed millions of immigrants from afghanistan in their country without any checks so that they could survive. I could not tell this about any other country and nationality. Now I am living in the western world and interacting with many nationalities of the world - we are not perfect given our resources I must say our generiosity is second to none.

This is good point and not something highlighted internationally i think.
The Western countries trumpet a lot about their humanitarian aid.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Squash, hockey, cricket, music, food, two Nobel Prize winners, and helping bring the USSR down by assisting the US to defeat them in Afghanistan - the USSR’s last major war before they broke up in 1991.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Also, nukes in North Korea.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Providing fantastic internet forums where Indians love to flock to share ideas and opinions with relatively less restriction.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Providing fantastic internet forums where Indians love to flock to share ideas and opinions with relatively less restriction.

Plenty of other forums in the wild captain.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Plenty of other forums in the wild captain.

How does that negate my point?

 

[liam26]

Torchbearers of Islam in the World and most Patriot soldiers of Ummah.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Torchbearers of Islam in the World and most Patriot soldiers of Ummah.

Your very neighbourly view actually does bear some truth. Pakistan will preserve - at least in their small corner of Asia - the legacy of the Mughals and their magnificent architecture for the whole world to experience to the enrichment of their knowledge. Not sure that will be the same for adjoining countries.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

How does that negate my point?

I was not going for negation. Just an observation that there are many other forums as well.

 

[Robert]

Reverse swing.

 

[MenInG]

A counterweight for Indian/Hindu hegemony in the region.

 

[gani999]

As a supporter of the Indian right wing, or rather, an active opposer of the Indian left-wing imbecile brigade, here is my opinion.

As a relatively young country that had very messy beginnings, Pakistan most certainly has established a place for itself in the world.
The so-called two-nation theory that led to its formation may be confined to the trashcan of history, taking the idea of Pakistan with it according to some, but Pakistan as a country has survived and will continue to do so.
Why? Because it is very clear that Pakistan as a country, as a republic, as a land mass that is home to 200 odd million people who call themselves 'Pakistanis', the country has come to stay and carved a distinct identity for itself - an identity that has long since gone beyond the two-nation theory or a 'homeland for Indian muslims'.
Most Pakistanis living today, much like most Indians, have never witnessed the partition. They were born into an independent Pakistan. I am sure that most just look at India as a big, sometimes troubling neighbour with whom they have territorial disputes.(much like most Indians). But beyond all this, they are concerned with bettering their lives and go about doing that business without bothering about India. I can assure you that it is much the same in India. The world isn't all about Pakpassion or Republic TV.

So while Pakistan may not be the 'Fortress of Islam' or 'an alternative homeland for Indian Muslims' , it is certainly an important country that has made it place in the world, thanks to its huge diaspora and its numerous achievements that have nothing to do with India, Islam or the two-nation theory. I firmly believe this will continue.

And despite being a 'Bhakht' (I hate that term , by the way), I certainly hope India and Pakistan can mend their relationship and forge a better future for their citizens.

And I also hope that someday, I get to visit Pakistan.

 

[Zeshan547]

Being the only and first declared Islamic atomic nation should count for something and given its circumstances its biggest achievement i think, in sporting term being world champion of three major sports, cricket, hockey and squash was the pinnacle I think.

 

[CricketCartoons]

in sporting term being world champion of three major sports, cricket, hockey and squash was the pinnacle I think.

what is major sport? popularity across the world? two of these are not part of olympics.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

As a supporter of the Indian right wing, or rather, an active opposer of the Indian left-wing imbecile brigade, here is my opinion.

As a relatively young country that had very messy beginnings, Pakistan most certainly has established a place for itself in the world.
The so-called two-nation theory that led to its formation may be confined to the trashcan of history, taking the idea of Pakistan with it according to some, but Pakistan as a country has survived and will continue to do so.
Why? Because it is very clear that Pakistan as a country, as a republic, as a land mass that is home to 200 odd million people who call themselves 'Pakistanis', the country has come to stay and carved a distinct identity for itself - an identity that has long since gone beyond the two-nation theory or a 'homeland for Indian muslims'.
Most Pakistanis living today, much like most Indians, have never witnessed the partition. They were born into an independent Pakistan. I am sure that most just look at India as a big, sometimes troubling neighbour with whom they have territorial disputes.(much like most Indians). But beyond all this, they are concerned with bettering their lives and go about doing that business without bothering about India. I can assure you that it is much the same in India. The world isn't all about Pakpassion or Republic TV.

So while Pakistan may not be the 'Fortress of Islam' or 'an alternative homeland for Indian Muslims' , it is certainly an important country that has made it place in the world, thanks to its huge diaspora and its numerous achievements that have nothing to do with India, Islam or the two-nation theory. I firmly believe this will continue.

And despite being a 'Bhakht' (I hate that term , by the way), I certainly hope India and Pakistan can mend their relationship and forge a better future for their citizens.

And I also hope that someday, I get to visit Pakistan.

Great post, I hope you do too.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

what is major sport? popularity across the world? two of these are not part of olympics.

Olympics has nothing to do with it. There were more people sitting inside the stadium for the 2019 world cup final than the number of Modern Pentathlon supporters in history.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The concept of zero as a mathematical number in it's own right.

 

[Local.Dada]

The concept of zero as a mathematical number in it's own right.

That’s attributed to Pakistan?

 

[Local.Dada]

To be honest Pakistan can claim the same legacy and contributions as India like the first thesis in Economics, Yoga,meditation, Maths and science.

However since the politicians and some Pakistanis want to disassociate with ancient Hindu culture that is as much a part of Pakistan as India, I guess Pakistan’s legacy technically begins after 1200
AD

Now again Mughals had Indian cities like Agra,Delhi etc as the major Centre of commerce and culture, so all that great architecture attributed to them remains on the Indian side as well.

All I can think of is the partition was the result of the greatest human migration ever in the history of the world.


As the famous quote goes every country had an army but in Pakistan’s case an army has a country. That definitely sets it apart.

 

[msaaim89]

As the famous quote goes every country had an army but in Pakistan’s case an army has a country. That definitely sets it apart.

I'm sure that was attributed to the Prussians with you now incorrectly assigning it to Pakistan. Now surprised though, quite common amongst Indians.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

To be honest Pakistan can claim the same legacy and contributions as India like the first thesis in Economics, Yoga,meditation, Maths and science.

However since the politicians and some Pakistanis want to disassociate with ancient Hindu culture that is as much a part of Pakistan as India, I guess Pakistan’s legacy technically begins after 1200
AD

That is untrue. Pakistan politicians do not want to disassociate with ancient hindu culture, merely some aspects of it which have been superseded by developing knowledge of the world. That is no different to hindu politicians who would distance themselves from older hindu texts like Manu Smitri.

Imran Khan for example was a big believer in astrology as practiced by many hindus. Does not mean that he won't accept Islamic concepts which he believes are superior for Pakistan.

 

[Itachi]

Pakistans legacy:

It would be the living proof that, only religion can not hold people together. So other countries can learn from mistakes of Pakistan in case separation becomes inevitable.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Done right, one of the tastiest foods in the world, better than India's.

That assessment depends on which cuisine you were born and brought up in.
A simple test would be which restaurants in the UK do neutrals prefer - indian or pakistani ? It's the former I think.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistans legacy:

It would be the living proof that, only religion can not hold people together. So other countries can learn from mistakes of Pakistan in case separation becomes inevitable.

Pakistan has held together just fine with religion. If you are talking about Bangladesh, there was no separation as East Pakistan was already separated by India slapped between east and west. Religion had less to do with separation than culture and logistics.

 

[Itachi]

Pakistan has held together just fine with religion. If you are talking about Bangladesh, there was no separation as East Pakistan was already separated by India slapped between east and west. Religion had less to do with separation than culture and logistics.

That was the point. Religion failed to grouped and overcome the differences of culture and logistics. Not to mention, the bloodbath that followed.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That was the point. Religion failed to grouped and overcome the differences of culture and logistics. Not to mention, the bloodbath that followed.

For religion to prevail, it has to be the primary unifying principle above other considerations. Obviously in the case of Pakistan it was not. Bangladesh shared more cultural values with India in reality, but not enough to stop India erecting a fence to keep Bangladeshis out of India.

 

[Local.Dada]

For religion to prevail, it has to be the primary unifying principle above other considerations. Obviously in the case of Pakistan it was not. Bangladesh shared more cultural values with India in reality, but not enough to stop India erecting a fence to keep Bangladeshis out of India.

Bangladesh is a sovereign country and so is India and Pakistan so why is it a surprise, that India has borders to keep away illegal immigrants.

We also saw what happened in Pakistan when they let Afghan refugees in from the fallout from the Afghan/Soviet war. There you go a good legacy and template left by Pakistan for others to follow.

Anyways countries don’t run on such a wholistic principle as religion, people have language, cultural and ethnic identities as it happens in Pakistan,India or even the UK and US as well. It depends on how the constitutions and law bring them under a common umbrella.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Bangladesh is a sovereign country and so is India and Pakistan so why is it a surprise, that India has borders to keep away illegal immigrants.

We also saw what happened in Pakistan when they let Afghan refugees in from the fallout from the Afghan/Soviet war. There you go a good legacy and template left by Pakistan for others to follow.

Anyways countries don’t run on such a wholistic principle as religion, people have language, cultural and ethnic identities as it happens in Pakistan,India or even the UK and US as well. It depends on how the constitutions and law bring them under a common umbrella.

Exactly. This is the point I was making to Itachi who tried to steer the thread in this direction. Religion is one part of a complex equation, you cannot make blanket statements based on one scenario otherwise we could well ask why India broke apart in the first place.

 

[Bigboii]

To be honest Pakistan can claim the same legacy and contributions as India like the first thesis in Economics, Yoga,meditation, Maths and science.

However since the politicians and some Pakistanis want to disassociate with ancient Hindu culture that is as much a part of Pakistan as India, I guess Pakistan’s legacy technically begins after 1200
AD

Now again Mughals had Indian cities like Agra,Delhi etc as the major Centre of commerce and culture, so all that great architecture attributed to them remains on the Indian side as well.

All I can think of is the partition was the result of the greatest human migration ever in the history of the world.


As the famous quote goes every country had an army but in Pakistan’s case an army has a country. That definitely sets it apart.

That’s attributed to Pakistan?

Look you yourself are kinda dismissive towards the fact that Pakistanis should not be claiming "indian" inventions...

 

[Bigboii]

That was the point. Religion failed to grouped and overcome the differences of culture and logistics. Not to mention, the bloodbath that followed.

even east prussia with a WAY smaller land mass between tham and mainland germany didn't survive and it's not under german control even though they were all germans

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan cricket fans with their boisterous and raucous support between the 80's and 90's. English audiences were amazed at the colour and spectacle at the time with the blaring horns, drums and chants of Pakistan Zindabad.

Even Indian fans were impressed. Formerly rather timid and deferential, in latter years they started to copy Pakistan's gung ho support and these days could be argued they are actually more vocal as Pakistan support for cricket has diluted due to the game's decline in the country.

 

[Technics 1210]

1. Pakistan's very existence is a legacy of the British Empire.

2. Shining beacon of self-determination through the Islamic bomb.

3. No fear attitude especially towards wannabe bully boy India.

4. Contribution to cyber security (first ever virus) and Cricket.

5. Just for fun - world Tekken champions.

There's plenty more.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That assessment depends on which cuisine you were born and brought up in.
A simple test would be which restaurants in the UK do neutrals prefer - indian or pakistani ? It's the former I think.

You would be wrong. Most popular Indian food is highly derived from Pakistani recipes, which themselves have a big Mughal influence. Hence you have very popular meat based dishes such as kebabs, tandoors, naans and so on. Veggie dishes tend to be more heavily influenced by India, and to be fair, they do a much better job.

I would agree that Indian food is now becoming more popular as the trend for vegetarian food grows, but as of now it is still more of a niche market in the UK at least. Most Indian restaurants still serve food which looks pretty much like Pakistani food given a bit of a makeover.

 

[Itachi]

That assessment depends on which cuisine you were born and brought up in.
A simple test would be which restaurants in the UK do neutrals prefer - indian or pakistani ? It's the former I think.

Indian cuisine is generally butchered in most restaurants. The neutrals won't be able to differentiate.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The first and only Muslim nation with the nuke.

This single event changed the course of history. Nothing else will ever come close.

 

[Loralai]

Being a poor country thenselves - it is their generiosity. They welcomed millions of immigrants from afghanistan in their country without any checks so that they could survive. I could not tell this about any other country and nationality. Now I am living in the western world and interacting with many nationalities of the world - we are not perfect given our resources I must say our generiosity is second to none.

It is not all down to our good intentions. We only accepted them for our (Establishment's) own reasons. Let's not forget how these immigrants have been demonised and abused in recent years. By now they should have been given full citizenship rights in Pakistan and integrated into the country fully. Instead they are hounded and stereotyped as terrorists and accused of being sympathetic to India.

 

[Nadeemp]

If pakistán did not have nukes We would be getting slapped around like an orphan . Also we would not be able to grease saudi for free money and gas. Having said that what amount of money pakistan spends on arms out of its gdp is a shame . If spent on education we would be in a better place.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Its resourceful people , Food, poetry . Punches above its weight .

 

[KB]

I prefer the word influence to legacy here. Focussing on the export of ideas - religious and political - we might note the following.

In the realm of religious ideas, two figures with very different ideas of Islam come to mind: Abu al-A‘la Mawdudi and Fazlur Rahman. Mawdudi, along with Hassan al-Banna, was a pioneer of what has come to be called Islamism. His writings, translated into many languages, have influenced for better or worse many Muslims in the world. Though he himself eschewed violent means, some have drawn on his ideas to mobilise for a violent struggle, notably Osama Bin Laden. Others that drew on his ideas - such as the Jama'at-i Islami Hind in India - have gone into a very different direction. "Whereas in the past the Jamaat called secularism and democracy haram,” writes historian Irfan Ahmed, “it now fights to safeguard these principles.”

Fazlur Rahman was a remarkable scholar, an adherent of Islamic modernism. Rahman was the most remarkable Islamic modernist in Pakistan’s history. The most remarkable in South Asia since Iqbal. A more skilled scholar than the pioneering spirit of Islamic modernism in South Asia, Sayyid Ahmad Khan. He was one of the few in Pakistan who could debate persuasively on religious grounds with the ulama. “A measure of this leading thinker’s impact,” wrote his colleague Frederick Denny following Rahman’s death in 1988, "is that wherever I have traveled in the world...I have never met a Muslim scholar or other specialist on Islam who has not heard of Fazlur Rahman or who is neutral about his contributions."

Turning to politics, Pakistan’s political history is of course depressing and hardly stands as a role model for other countries. But there is influence even in the realm of politics. The creation of Pakistan inspired Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnia’s first president. Izetbegovic, in his essay - Islamic Declaration - had stated that “Pakistan is the dress rehearsal for the introduction of an Islamic order, under modern conditions and at present rates of development.” He was critical of Pakistan for failing to live up to its ideals, for the failure of the Muslim League to maintain unity and for its overly formalistic approach to the implementation of Islamic norms. But he stated that “we still believe in Pakistan and its mission in the service of international Islam. There is no Muslim heart which will not bound at the mention of something as dear to us as Pakistan, even if this love, like any other, knows fear and trembling. Pakistan is our great hope, full of trials and temptations.”

Finally, in the case more generally of constitutional debates, it may surprise many, that, in the words of academic Matthew Nelson, “Pakistani constitutional debates are often quite nuanced and sophisticated.” And that “it is likely that other parts of the Muslim world will revisit many of the debates that Pakistan has already begun to examine.”

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I prefer the word influence to legacy here. Focussing on the export of ideas - religious and political - we might note the following.

In the realm of religious ideas, two figures with very different ideas of Islam come to mind: Abu al-A‘la Mawdudi and Fazlur Rahman. Mawdudi, along with Hassan al-Banna, was a pioneer of what has come to be called Islamism. His writings, translated into many languages, have influenced for better or worse many Muslims in the world. Though he himself eschewed violent means, some have drawn on his ideas to mobilise for a violent struggle, notably Osama Bin Laden. Others that drew on his ideas - such as the Jama'at-i Islami Hind in India - have gone into a very different direction. "Whereas in the past the Jamaat called secularism and democracy haram,” writes historian Irfan Ahmed, “it now fights to safeguard these principles.”

Fazlur Rahman was a remarkable scholar, an adherent of Islamic modernism. Rahman was the most remarkable Islamic modernist in Pakistan’s history. The most remarkable in South Asia since Iqbal. A more skilled scholar than the pioneering spirit of Islamic modernism in South Asia, Sayyid Ahmad Khan. He was one of the few in Pakistan who could debate persuasively on religious grounds with the ulama. “A measure of this leading thinker’s impact,” wrote his colleague Frederick Denny following Rahman’s death in 1988, "is that wherever I have traveled in the world...I have never met a Muslim scholar or other specialist on Islam who has not heard of Fazlur Rahman or who is neutral about his contributions."

Turning to politics, Pakistan’s political history is of course depressing and hardly stands as a role model for other countries. But there is influence even in the realm of politics. The creation of Pakistan inspired Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnia’s first president. Izetbegovic, in his essay - Islamic Declaration - had stated that “Pakistan is the dress rehearsal for the introduction of an Islamic order, under modern conditions and at present rates of development.” He was critical of Pakistan for failing to live up to its ideals, for the failure of the Muslim League to maintain unity and for its overly formalistic approach to the implementation of Islamic norms. But he stated that “we still believe in Pakistan and its mission in the service of international Islam. There is no Muslim heart which will not bound at the mention of something as dear to us as Pakistan, even if this love, like any other, knows fear and trembling. Pakistan is our great hope, full of trials and temptations.”

Finally, in the case more generally of constitutional debates, it may surprise many, that, in the words of academic Matthew Nelson, “Pakistani constitutional debates are often quite nuanced and sophisticated.” And that “it is likely that other parts of the Muslim world will revisit many of the debates that Pakistan has already begun to examine.”

Thanks for this post. Very insightful and well written.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

if you want to stay here, then you have to accept the superiority of Hindus. We created a space for them. This is the nature of our nation, and that inherent nature is called Hindu," he said.

The above is a translation of a speech given by RSS leader Mohan Baghwat yesterday. RSS is of course the ideological foundation upon which the current govt of India has built it's guiding principles and policies.

So I suppose one could infer that the real legacy of Pakistan has been to free it's people to live life openly and proudly as Muslims without having to feel their lifestyle and beliefs must be subservient to hinduism.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

To be honest Pakistan can claim the same legacy and contributions as India like the first thesis in Economics, Yoga,meditation, Maths and science.

However since the politicians and some Pakistanis want to disassociate with ancient Hindu culture that is as much a part of Pakistan as India, I guess Pakistan’s legacy technically begins after 1200
AD

Now again Mughals had Indian cities like Agra,Delhi etc as the major Centre of commerce and culture, so all that great architecture attributed to them remains on the Indian side as well.

All I can think of is the partition was the result of the greatest human migration ever in the history of the world.


As the famous quote goes every country had an army but in Pakistan’s case an army has a country. That definitely sets it apart.

There are no shortage of things named after the Buddhist Gandhara Civilization, as well as the Indus Valley Civilization. And of course the Delhi Sultanate and Mughal Empire are huge as well.

So its basically all the history of the region, with the exception of the Hindu period.

As the famous quote goes every country had an army but in Pakistan’s case an army has a country. That definitely sets it apart.

Other countries, such as Egypt, Thailand, Myanmar, also have the Army with a big role in politics. SO the quote is **.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That was the point. Religion failed to grouped and overcome the differences of culture and logistics. Not to mention, the bloodbath that followed.

But West Bengal and Bangladesh were divided because of religion, and will never become one because of religion.

So if we have to learn something its that both religion and culture matter.

1947 and 1971 show that.

Same thing with Kashmiris, Sindhis, Punjabis, etc. Both religion and culture matter. Only way for their to be coexistence is if one religion is a clear minority, and the other is a clear majority. And the minority accepts that the majority will get there way.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That assessment depends on which cuisine you were born and brought up in.
A simple test would be which restaurants in the UK do neutrals prefer - indian or pakistani ? It's the former I think.

Most Indian restaurants serve North Indian food, which is very similar to Pakistani cuisine. This cuisine comes mostly from the Muslim rule of the subcontinent. This era is loved by Pakistanis, but hated by Indians, at least the right wing ones.

So you cant take credit for a cuisine, if you hate the people who created it. You cant call Gulab jamun, Samosa, Biryani, etc Indian, yet curse the very people who are responsible for it.


Not to mention that alot, if not the majority , of Indian restaurants in the UK are run by Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Most Indian restaurants serve North Indian food, which is very similar to Pakistani cuisine. This cuisine comes mostly from the Muslim rule of the subcontinent. This era is loved by Pakistanis, but hated by Indians, at least the right wing ones.

So you cant take credit for a cuisine, if you hate the people who created it. You cant call Gulab jamun, Samosa, Biryani, etc Indian, yet curse the very people who are responsible for it.


Not to mention that alot, if not the majority , of Indian restaurants in the UK are run by Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

Yeah here in the US, there are Pakistani restaurants who market themselves as Indian because it sells better.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Most Indian restaurants serve North Indian food, which is very similar to Pakistani cuisine. This cuisine comes mostly from the Muslim rule of the subcontinent. This era is loved by Pakistanis, but hated by Indians, at least the right wing ones.

So you cant take credit for a cuisine, if you hate the people who created it. You cant call Gulab jamun, Samosa, Biryani, etc Indian, yet curse the very people who are responsible for it.


Not to mention that alot, if not the majority , of Indian restaurants in the UK are run by Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

what is the origin of biryani, and what were the original ingredients.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yeah here in the US, there are Pakistani restaurants who market themselves as Indian because it sells better.

It is a matter of brand recognition. Because India has been around longer as a general term than Pakistan or Bangladesh, it is more recognisable abroad and serves as a catch all for south asian cuisine.

Not dissimilar to everyone referring to East Asian food as Chinese despite it may come from Thailand, Korea, Vietnam etc.