What is Pakistan's exact problem with India

[drubwrubnat]

You wanted a separate state, you got it. Why are we fighting now. You dont trust us - great , now do your thing , why do you keep challenging the status quo.

We never invaded your country ever.
1971 was inevitable. I think, deep down you know this. There was a civil uprising, they attacked your army not us. We treated the PoWs according to intl laws.
71 had to happen because of your own failures.

Siachen we took because otherwise you will try to take unnecessary leverage from vantage point. Like Aksai chin.

Kashmir is already in a position of status quo.

You have very little similarities with Kashmiris still you occupy Gilgit Baltistan. Only religion.

Similarly we also have little similarities with Kashmiris and we occupy valley. Only part of the culture, and the legal ownership.

GB - was ours but you took it. Fine thats past, so lets have a stalemate now. Forget valley like how we forget GB.

RSS doesnt want war, they want a consensus. If you dont like it, thats cool. They wont invade.

But your radicals go for the jugular. They have no reason/ no negaotiation.


If we give you valley, you think we are fools to trust you? You will definitely sabotage the situation. You will start separatism. Not us. You have controlled and mistrusted your Sindhis, Pashtuns & Baloch. We didnt create Sindhudesh when you were vulnerable. We dont want any complications.

Dont you understand this simple point , that we have given 75 years to stabilise Kashmir - how will we let it go just like that.

Pakistan has a much worse track record, not India.

What exactly is the point of fighting all the time.

You started all wars, have strategy of bleed India with a thousand cuts, you do double speak with Vajpayee & attack Kargil - all the time you cause chaos and keep trying to destabilise us.

Pakistan & India should move on now. And I believe Pakistan is the blocker to peace not India.

 

[street cricketer]

That's helluva rant.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Give Kashmiris thre right thn we will forget about India ..... Simple.
otherwise you know deep down how its gonna end, if not sooner thn later ......

 

[Romali_rotti]

You wanted a separate state, you got it. Why are we fighting now. You dont trust us - great , now do your thing , why do you keep challenging the status quo.

We never invaded your country ever.
1971 was inevitable. I think, deep down you know this. There was a civil uprising, they attacked your army not us. We treated the PoWs according to intl laws.
71 had to happen because of your own failures.

Siachen we took because otherwise you will try to take unnecessary leverage from vantage point. Like Aksai chin.

Kashmir is already in a position of status quo.

You have very little similarities with Kashmiris still you occupy Gilgit Baltistan. Only religion.

Similarly we also have little similarities with Kashmiris and we occupy valley. Only part of the culture, and the legal ownership.

GB - was ours but you took it. Fine thats past, so lets have a stalemate now. Forget valley like how we forget GB.

RSS doesnt want war, they want a consensus. If you dont like it, thats cool. They wont invade.

But your radicals go for the jugular. They have no reason/ no negaotiation.


If we give you valley, you think we are fools to trust you? You will definitely sabotage the situation. You will start separatism. Not us. You have controlled and mistrusted your Sindhis, Pashtuns & Baloch. We didnt create Sindhudesh when you were vulnerable. We dont want any complications.

Dont you understand this simple point , that we have given 75 years to stabilise Kashmir - how will we let it go just like that.

Pakistan has a much worse track record, not India.

What exactly is the point of fighting all the time.

You started all wars, have strategy of bleed India with a thousand cuts, you do double speak with Vajpayee & attack Kargil - all the time you cause chaos and keep trying to destabilise us.

Pakistan & India should move on now. And I believe Pakistan is the blocker to peace not India.

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

 

[the Great Khan]

Lol..love these threads. Gives me a good laugh now and then.

 

[LaLoco]

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

How? lol

When the Kashmir issue is solved, what other major issue Pak military will find it and how will they maintain public support after the Kashmir issue is solved? No matter how strong the military of Pakistan gets, at the end of the day, they are nothing without the support of the general population.

It rather benefit Hindutva/RSS to keep Kashmir issue alive and need 200 million boogeymen in the form of Indian Muslims to keep them in power.

Some of you Indian repeat everything like a parrot.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

How? lol

When the Kashmir issue is solved, what other major issue Pak military will find it and how will they maintain public support after the Kashmir issue is solved? No matter how strong the military of Pakistan gets, at the end of the day, they are nothing without the support of the general population.

It rather benefit Hindutva/RSS to keep Kashmir issue alive and need 200 million boogeymen in the form of Indian Muslims to keep them in power.

Some of you Indian repeat everything like a parrot.

Just to add, it is childish to think that it is the "evil Pakistani army/ISI" who are behind the Kashmiri uprising.

The will to fight against invaders is from within. Money can buy mercenaries as USA/India do in Afghanistan or Russia/Iran/Israel do in Syria, but as soon as money dries off the whole paper mercenary army evaporates as them ghosts did it when Aragorn freed them of their oath

Kashmir will never accept invaders, even if Hell freezes and Pakistani army joins India to oppress Kashmiris.

By further oppressing Kashmiris, Modi the Muslim Killer has made the Movement stronger than ever.

 

[gazza619]

Thread should be “What is Indias exact problem with Indians”. The answer to that will lead you to many other answers.

 

[Lonewarrior]

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

wow sherlock you just solved the puzzle so easily ..... first you gve up kashmir thn Pak army will find some other "boogey man" , atleast it wont be India ..... simple

atleast your problem will be solved .....

 

[IMMY69]

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

That's a nice little fairy tail you've written there Roti Bhai.
With almost the same texture and consistency of a Romali roti

 

[Colorblind Genius]

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

Which in turn means Pak army is also making you guys spend $ Billions on Defence budget.

Otherwise, think about it, if it’s all a drama by Pak army then you guys are falling right into the trap wasting SO MUCH on defense budget.

Or you just love our tea?

 

[Napa]

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

These are the facts:

1) The Pakistani Army dominates the country, with retired generals getting large land grants, top jobs in the industry and more.

2) The Army's domination comes at the cost to the civilians, who are deprived of opportunities taken by the Army. Also, the interference of the Army in civilian life has resulted in a stagnant economy which has been incapable of developing modern industries. This is very apparent from the composition of Pakistan's top exports, which are all low-tech low-value added.

https://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-exports/



3) To continue its domination of Pakistan, the Army needs an external enemy. Otherwise the citizens will turn against them, asking "what is your function, why are you getting all these privileges?". Hence, the Army will always find some issue to make India an enemy. The Indian Army on the other hand does not need an external enemy as it doesn't get special privileges (land, top civilian jobs etc.).

Anyone who disagrees with the above 3 points should be able to point out exactly which point is disagreed with, and why?

 

[ahsan17]

OP doesnt get it.

It's Pakistani military and ISI that needs the Kashmir problem to linger.

Say if India did give Pakistan, the Indian Kashmir, their military will no longer be able to blackmail and fool their public with the Indian Boogey man theory.

Result of the above? Well, simple, there will no longer be a need for Pakistani military to control the Pakistani economics and the money generated from the economy will have to go towards building the country, rather than into the ISI and military's deep pockets.

There will never be a solution to Kashmir, even if Indians give it up, Pakistani military would find a major issue with it...

These are the facts:

1) The Pakistani Army dominates the country, with retired generals getting large land grants, top jobs in the industry and more.

2) The Army's domination comes at the cost to the civilians, who are deprived of opportunities taken by the Army. Also, the interference of the Army in civilian life has resulted in a stagnant economy which has been incapable of developing modern industries. This is very apparent from the composition of Pakistan's top exports, which are all low-tech low-value added.

https://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-exports/

View attachment 112974

3) To continue its domination of Pakistan, the Army needs an external enemy. Otherwise the citizens will turn against them, asking "what is your function, why are you getting all these privileges?". Hence, the Army will always find some issue to make India an enemy. The Indian Army on the other hand does not need an external enemy as it doesn't get special privileges (land, top civilian jobs etc.).

Anyone who disagrees with the above 3 points should be able to point out exactly which point is disagreed with, and why?

Interesting that you guys accuse others of believing in conspiracy theories, but here you are full of them yourselves.

 

[Napa]

Interesting that you guys accuse others of believing in conspiracy theories, but here you are full of them yourselves.

A "conspiracy theory" is something that doesn't have evidence and is at odds with logic. Which of the 3 points do you think qualifies?

 

[Major]

Give Kashmiris thre right thn we will forget about India ..... Simple.
otherwise you know deep down how its gonna end, if not sooner thn later ......

depends upon how you define rights? Kashmir gets independant or Kashmir goes to Pakistan?

Pakistani govt doesnt support an independent kashmir

 

[ahsan17]

A "conspiracy theory" is something that doesn't have evidence and is at odds with logic. Which of the 3 points do you think qualifies?

The inference that Pakistan Army needs an eternal enemy to keep going on forever. That is a conspiracy theory you are drawing.

 

[ahsan17]

A "conspiracy theory" is something that doesn't have evidence and is at odds with logic. Which of the 3 points do you think qualifies?

All conspiracy theories have evidence and are logical based on those who believe in them, including in your own case.

 

[Napa]

The inference that Pakistan Army needs an eternal enemy to keep going on forever. That is a conspiracy theory you are drawing.

I assume you accept the other 2 points as true.

Now ask yourself. If the Army is getting the best of the country at the expense of the civilians, don't you think it needs an enemy to justify its power?

Don't be gullible.

 

[ahsan17]

I assume you accept the other 2 points as true.

Now ask yourself. If the Army is getting the best of the country at the expense of the civilians, don't you think it needs an enemy to justify its power?

Don't be gullible.

I don't follow the inference, no. But your line of thinking is consistent with most conspiracy theories. Post some plausible or true statements, then draw a wild inference, and claim disagreeing with that inference is being gullible.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Lol there are Indian ministers and ruling party members who believe in so called Akhand Bharat and here we have OP with a mindless rant. RSS’ headquarters has a map of ‘India’ (a British construct anyway) which shows Pakistan as being part of india…

 

[Napa]

I don't follow the inference, no. But your line of thinking is consistent with most conspiracy theories. Post some plausible or true statements, then draw a wild inference, and claim disagreeing with that inference is being gullible.

Many Pakistanis to varying degrees have accepted the Army's deleterious interference in domestic and foreign affairs because they think it is saving them from an external enemy (India).

If you don't get the simple fact that an Army needs an external enemy to prove its worth to the citizens, then I can't help you.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

I maybe wrong but I think its Kashmir /s

 

[LaLoco]

Would the intelligent one’s attached to grandiosity drip, wants to help Pakistan, explain the main point of this thread, “once the kashmir issue is solved then how does the Army continue to get support against India in Pakistan, ?”

They won’t get support against India unless and until India, let’s say, some lunatic, power hungry, fascist, wants to start a war to appear tough and show he is on the mission to obliterate the largest minority in India then it is given most Pakistani will support the Army of Pakistan to serve the best cup of Tea - that’s the only way I see Army getting support against India.

Lol at interference. Lol

 

[ahsan17]

Many Pakistanis to varying degrees have accepted the Army's deleterious interference in domestic and foreign affairs because they think it is saving them from an external enemy (India).

If you don't get the simple fact that an Army needs an external enemy to prove its worth to the citizens, then I can't help you.

Yes, you can't help anyone that disagrees with your conspiracy theories.

 

[Romali_rotti]

These are the facts:

1) The Pakistani Army dominates the country, with retired generals getting large land grants, top jobs in the industry and more.

2) The Army's domination comes at the cost to the civilians, who are deprived of opportunities taken by the Army. Also, the interference of the Army in civilian life has resulted in a stagnant economy which has been incapable of developing modern industries. This is very apparent from the composition of Pakistan's top exports, which are all low-tech low-value added.

https://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-exports/

View attachment 112974

3) To continue its domination of Pakistan, the Army needs an external enemy. Otherwise the citizens will turn against them, asking "what is your function, why are you getting all these privileges?". Hence, the Army will always find some issue to make India an enemy. The Indian Army on the other hand does not need an external enemy as it doesn't get special privileges (land, top civilian jobs etc.).

Anyone who disagrees with the above 3 points should be able to point out exactly which point is disagreed with, and why?

Pakistan is a lost cause, I have said for years, their public has been brain washed for decades. Pakistan will always remain an Army that has a country and they are now dead broke, practically owned by the Chinese or will be if they haven't yet... It is what it is, They will just go the way they are...

 

[LaLoco]

Pakistan is a lost cause, I have said for years, their public has been brain washed for decades. Pakistan will always remain an Army that has a country and they are now dead broke, practically owned by the Chinese or will be if they haven't yet... It is what it is, They will just go the way they are...

Bhai, tell us how does Army of Pak maintain support against India once Kashmir issue is resolved?

Idiotic act of war, which let many poor Indian soldiers death and great cup of tea rather is more significant to continue to get the support against India.

As it has been mentioned, the most popular leader in the world, according to the recent polls (hahah), need Pakistan and Muslims of India as “boogeyman”.

 

[drubwrubnat]

It must be said that -

Pakistan military has tremendous traction, synergy, will, tech, negotiation & skill.

India lags behind due to myopic military vision, war fighting experience and indecision.

 

[saeedhk]

You wanted a separate state, you got it. Why are we fighting now. You dont trust us - great , now do your thing , why do you keep challenging the status quo.

We never invaded your country ever.
1971 was inevitable. I think, deep down you know this. There was a civil uprising, they attacked your army not us. We treated the PoWs according to intl laws.
71 had to happen because of your own failures.

Siachen we took because otherwise you will try to take unnecessary leverage from vantage point. Like Aksai chin.

Kashmir is already in a position of status quo.

You have very little similarities with Kashmiris still you occupy Gilgit Baltistan. Only religion.

Similarly we also have little similarities with Kashmiris and we occupy valley. Only part of the culture, and the legal ownership.

GB - was ours but you took it. Fine thats past, so lets have a stalemate now. Forget valley like how we forget GB.

RSS doesnt want war, they want a consensus. If you dont like it, thats cool. They wont invade.

But your radicals go for the jugular. They have no reason/ no negaotiation.


If we give you valley, you think we are fools to trust you? You will definitely sabotage the situation. You will start separatism. Not us. You have controlled and mistrusted your Sindhis, Pashtuns & Baloch. We didnt create Sindhudesh when you were vulnerable. We dont want any complications.

Dont you understand this simple point , that we have given 75 years to stabilise Kashmir - how will we let it go just like that.

Pakistan has a much worse track record, not India.

What exactly is the point of fighting all the time.

You started all wars, have strategy of bleed India with a thousand cuts, you do double speak with Vajpayee & attack Kargil - all the time you cause chaos and keep trying to destabilise us.

Pakistan & India should move on now. And I believe Pakistan is the blocker to peace not India.

The biggest obstacle to peace is the Pakistani military. Kashmir is a dead horse that has to be kept alive by the Pakistani military establishment so that they can have a stranglehold over the country and keep themselves deeply entrenched in Pakistan's political, social and economical spheres. Having a boogeyman allows military live a life of luxury and justify their profligate existence. If the Kashmir issue is resolved, the relevance of Pakistani military would subside. This is the reason why Pakistan has stalled all peace efforts and attempts to resolve the Kashmir issue.

 

[PakLFC]

IoK and Indian terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[Napa]

It must be said that -

Pakistan military has tremendous traction, synergy, will, tech, negotiation & skill.

India lags behind due to myopic military vision, war fighting experience and indecision.

Are you nuts? Look up Niazi, Longewala, Asal Uttar etc.

 

[Napa]

Yes, you can't help anyone that disagrees with your conspiracy theories.

IoK and Indian terrorism in Pakistan.

At the end of the day it is your country and not mine. So you should be much more eager to fix it.

I had written in the earlier post about Pakistan "a stagnant economy which has been incapable of developing modern industries. This is very apparent from the composition of Pakistan's top exports, which are all low-tech low-value added.
https://www.worldstopexports.com/pak...op-10-exports/"

If you are happy with the current situation, more power to you. Continue on the same path. I believe that path is a disaster for your country, but it is your country and not mine.

 

[drubwrubnat]

Are you nuts? Look up Niazi, Longewala, Asal Uttar etc.

With humility,
You are living in some dreamland
Pakistan military is at present de facto stronger than India

They messed up abhinandans flight controls in broad daylight

 

[Napa]

With humility,
You are living in some dreamland
Pakistan military is at present de facto stronger than India

They messed up abhinandans flight controls in broad daylight

okey, dokey... they are so strong that they dropped Abhinandan like a hot potato, I mean they sent him back to India two days after he had bombed their country... hah hah...

 

[drubwrubnat]

okey, dokey... they are so strong that they dropped Abhinandan like a hot potato, I mean they sent him back to India two days after he had bombed their country... hah hah...

Correction- he didnt bomb the country

 

[Napa]

Correction- he didnt bomb the country

What was he doing in Pakistani airspace? Delivering gifts?

 

[drubwrubnat]

What was he doing in Pakistani airspace? Delivering gifts?

Which incident are you referring to ..
The balakot or the counter attack?

 

[Napa]

Which incident are you referring to ..
The balakot or the counter attack?

I am referring to Abhinandan getting shot down over Pakistani airspace, whenever that may have happened.

 

[drubwrubnat]

I am referring to Abhinandan getting shot down over Pakistani airspace, whenever that may have happened.

Time for us to look inwards

 

[Napa]

Time for us to look inwards

Indeed... solving our own problems is better than solving others' problems

India has many many problems!

 

[cricketjoshila]

J and K isnt pakistani territory that India has taken. If there are issues between people of J and K and the Govt of India, how does pakistan get a say? Let the two parties who are actually involved sort it out.

Pakistan knows that it cannot take Kashmir, it doesn't have the military, economic or diplomatic power to do so. Hence they want this issue to burn to justify billions of dollars that goes into the pakistan defence forces.

The day pakistan accepts that it cannot do anything in kashmir, peace will prevail.

 

[Romali_rotti]

The biggest obstacle to peace is the Pakistani military. Kashmir is a dead horse that has to be kept alive by the Pakistani military establishment so that they can have a stranglehold over the country and keep themselves deeply entrenched in Pakistan's political, social and economical spheres. Having a boogeyman allows military live a life of luxury and justify their profligate existence. If the Kashmir issue is resolved, the relevance of Pakistani military would subside. This is the reason why Pakistan has stalled all peace efforts and attempts to resolve the Kashmir issue.

Its too bad the Kashmiris are too dumb to realize this....

 

[Romali_rotti]

J and K isnt pakistani territory that India has taken. If there are issues between people of J and K and the Govt of India, how does pakistan get a say? Let the two parties who are actually involved sort it out.

Pakistan knows that it cannot take Kashmir, it doesn't have the military, economic or diplomatic power to do so. Hence they want this issue to burn to justify billions of dollars that goes into the pakistan defence forces.

The day pakistan accepts that it cannot do anything in kashmir, peace will prevail.

Pakistan military's sole purpose is to keep the Kashmir issue going so they can be an Army with a country rather than vice versa..

They cant give up on Kashmir cause if they do, then their public will say to them; well we don't need you (military, ISI) to loot the economy anymore.

Their military cant allow India to give Kashmir to them either, because if that happens, their public will say to them; well, we don't have a boogey man anymore, so you(military, ISI) don't need to loot the economy anymore.

Pakistani military is damned if they do, damned if they don't. They are perfectly happy and content with the way things are moving currently and will hope this will go on for the end of time, so they can always be in control.

In all seriousness you have to feel sorry for the avg Pakistani citizens who truly believe this is about Kashmir and its ppl..

 

[Romali_rotti]

They messed up abhinandans flight controls in broad daylight

Yeah that must be some effort to mess up flight controls on a 60 year old fly Coffin, tha Bison LOL )

Your funny...

 

[drubwrubnat]

Yeah that must be some effort to mess up flight controls on a 60 year old fly Coffin, tha Bison LOL )

Your funny...

Bruh it was a bison but its electronics was new. I m telling you, donot take stealth lightly

 

[street cricketer]

Mine is a highly unpopular opinion among Indians but I wish we had never taken control of Kashmir in the first place because I think Kashmir is a huge drag on the Indian economy. Numerous lives wouldn't have been lost and the money that has been guzzled down in Kashmir could've been used elsewhere if we didn't have the Kashmir issue.

A muslim majority region will never accept secularism in its truest version, nevermind the hinduised version of secularism that India follows. Religion is the most important part of the life of a muslim and a muslim majority region will always aspire to live in a society where the islamic laws are followed. As such no matter how much dollars the Indian government uses in building huge and complex infrastructure projects in Kashmir, Kashmiris aren't going to feel Indian now or in the near and distant future. They will always feel more Pakistani than Indian because Pakistan is a muslim majority country and is an islamic republic. I've always felt the north east part of India is a criminally neglected region by the Indian state, which is particularly tragic because the north easterners feel Indian unlike the Kashmiris, yet are subjected to racist incidents in the mainland and also their region has very little infrastructure development, partly due to the difficult topography but also partly because they have always been neglected, which is a shame for us as a country.

It's not going to ever happen because Kashmir is a geopolitically important region because of its water resources, but I hope the Kashmir dispute gets settled so that we can stop guzzling money to keep the region secure. India as a country is in a very critical phase of its development as an economy, it's in a phase where China was in the late 90s. It's in the 2000s that China had astronomical levels of development and India is on a similar trajectory now, but one thing China had in its advantage was that it never had to waste as much revenue in fighting an insurgency, even in Tibet and Xinjiang. Kashmir will not only affect the development of the Indian economy but probably more so the Pakistani economy as well because the Pakistani economy is in a more critical state than the Indian one and one of the reasons is because of the arms race that Pakistan has with India because of the Kashmir conflict. Due to the nature of their respective economies, India would be able to sustain more in the arms race than Pakistan can. So, the Kashmir dispute in a way is stalling the development of both countries to varying levels.

 

[drubwrubnat]

I think Kashmir is a huge drag on the Indian economy..

Do you know it costs 15-25 crore inr to make 1 km of roads, btw where are you going to house 1.5 billion population.
Huge real estate potential of this place.
What about the strategic location and access.
Not to mention the water as you said & the diverse farmland & tourist potential.
Other than lakhs of crores & thousands of lives lost in for military & wasted expenditure.

Unlike Pakistanis, Kashmiris are smart enough to understand BJP will not rollback 370 & 37A. Its common sense - because doing it is political suicide.

Same way, the territory cannot be surrendered at any cost. Pakistanis should take deep breath & understand this.

This mindset of not investing will be noticed & alienate the Kashmiris, i would rather have a proper huge infra project “ Kashmiri village” which showcases the culture, local handicrafts, tourist attractions.

We cannot afford to mistrust the Kashmiris, they are similar to the people who live in Jammu. Ive never been, so cant say for sure though.

We have to take care of Kashmiris & also patch up with Pakistan ASAP. Who knows what is brewing otherwise.

And if everyone here is saying that military controls Pakistan, then its even more dangerous for us in war time isnt it.

 

[drubwrubnat]

Do you know it costs 15-25 crore inr to make 1 km of roads, btw where are you going to house 1.5 billion population.
Huge real estate potential of this place.
What about the strategic location and access.
Not to mention the water as you said & the diverse farmland & tourist potential.
Other than lakhs of crores & thousands of lives lost in for military & wasted expenditure.

Unlike Pakistanis, Kashmiris are smart enough to understand BJP will not rollback 370 & 37A. Its common sense - because doing it is political suicide.

Same way, the territory cannot be surrendered at any cost. Pakistanis should take deep breath & understand this.

This mindset of not investing will be noticed & alienate the Kashmiris, i would rather have a proper huge infra project “ Kashmiri village” which showcases the culture, local handicrafts, tourist attractions.

We cannot afford to mistrust the Kashmiris, they are similar to the people who live in Jammu. Ive never been, so cant say for sure though.

We have to take care of Kashmiris & also patch up with Pakistan ASAP. Who knows what is brewing otherwise.

And if everyone here is saying that military controls Pakistan, then its even more dangerous for us in war time isnt it.

And also we should build the worlds biggest mosque there

 

[cricket4all]

What a load of nonsense this thread. As a Kashmiri with family on both sides of the LOC I and many others say what is India’s problem? The land of Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiri people and we have nothing in common with Indians really. At least with Pakistan we have a common religion. You don’t see uprising in Pakistan administered Kashmir or celebration of India winning in sport lol. That says it all with lots of evidence. The Pak army is only really based on the loc and do not need to try and control the people in the rest of Pak Kashmir, which the brutal Indian forces do on the other side.
India is suppose to be a secular democratic country but far from it can not even let Kashmiris decide their governance and let them live in peace.

No country is perfect we know but whatever you say about the Pak army and whatever personal benefits they have, they at least protect the Kashmiri people.
To the original question:The common people Pakistan and Kashmir want freedom for Kashmiris from India. That’s the problem of Kashmiris and Pakistan: freedom.

The British ruled India so long and so did others, and what India called freedom fighters today they call similar people in Kashmir who want freedom as terrorists. So by that account all the ones who fought the British were terrorist too. We Kashmiris are fed up with India and their pretext excuse of labelling everyone terrorists who want freedom. This pretex of terrorism is just an old excuse and the will become like the boy who cried wolf.

Back to the British they had to leave India one day and so will the Indians get kicked out of Kashmir eventually. It may not happen soon or in our lifetime but surely will one day.

 

[drubwrubnat]

What a load of nonsense this thread. As a Kashmiri with family on both sides of the LOC I and many others say what is India’s problem? The land of Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiri people and we have nothing in common with Indians really. At least with Pakistan we have a common religion. You don’t see uprising in Pakistan administered Kashmir or celebration of India winning in sport lol. That says it all with lots of evidence. The Pak army is only really based on the loc and do not need to try and control the people in the rest of Pak Kashmir, which the brutal Indian forces do on the other side.
India is suppose to be a secular democratic country but far from it can not even let Kashmiris decide their governance and let them live in peace.

No country is perfect we know but whatever you say about the Pak army and whatever personal benefits they have, they at least protect the Kashmiri people.
To the original question:The common people Pakistan and Kashmir want freedom for Kashmiris from India. That’s the problem of Kashmiris and Pakistan: freedom.

The British ruled India so long and so did others, and what India called freedom fighters today they call similar people in Kashmir who want freedom as terrorists. So by that account all the ones who fought the British were terrorist too. We Kashmiris are fed up with India and their pretext excuse of labelling everyone terrorists who want freedom. This pretex of terrorism is just an old excuse and the will become like the boy who cried wolf.

Back to the British they had to leave India one day and so will the Indians get kicked out of Kashmir eventually. It may not happen soon or in our lifetime but surely will one day.

Appreciate your voice.

 

[cricket4all]

Thank you. Tbh, I have lots of Indian and Pakistani friends and who are good people and want peace. Majority in both countries want peace and Kashmiris should be allowed to decide India, Pakistan or independence.

 

[drubwrubnat]

To be frank, i had a great friendship too with a friend of mine on the other side called Haider .
Wish you well in anything

 

[cricket4all]

To be frank, i had a great friendship too with a friend of mine on the other side called Haider .
Wish you well in anything

Thank you, you too. Seriously though if Kashmir issue was resolved by all the stakeholders then everyone from all 3 areas would get on so well.

 

[drubwrubnat]

Thank you, you too. Seriously though if Kashmir issue was resolved by all the stakeholders then everyone from all 3 areas would get on so well.

I wish someone has a solution a creative one, like an ingenious idea.
War/ any other such harmful / etc is too costly on all the 3 of us poor cute nations

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The problem is that the majority of people in India think like the OP. You would think India is helpless in the face of Pakistani intransigence rather than being the leader and powerbroker in the region.

I thought it was going to be a serious thread, but just rehash of official Indian propaganda.

 

[drubwrubnat]

The problem is that the majority of people in India think like the OP. You would think India is helpless in the face of Pakistani intransigence rather than being the leader and powerbroker in the region.

I thought it was going to be a serious thread, but just rehash of official Indian propaganda.

Great, i like your non commital stance to the substance.
Wouldve been fun though !

 

[LaLoco]

The problem is that the majority of people in India think like the OP. You would think India is helpless in the face of Pakistani intransigence rather than being the leader and powerbroker in the region.

I thought it was going to be a serious thread, but just rehash of official Indian propaganda.

Almost in every thread, you get sound bites and narrative of Indian media, it is almost as if one is watching Indian media, repeat as many times as one can, connect everything to China ( China's slave), Forex and FDI even when there is no connection to original point, muddy the facts and hope other party get frustrated then leave, literally be as loud as possible, as many RSS followers do in many threads, on media and on every social media.

Most common of the repetitive narrative by the Indians (particularly those who prescribe to RSS ideology):

-Pakistan need modern industries - no kidding, who would have thought in 2021 Pakistan would need modern industries to enhance its economy - what a unique idea.

-Abhi bhai dropped Pakistani F16 - really, yet to see any evidence rather we have heard from high ranking official from all over the world that Abhi bhai was dropped to have a cup of tea.

-Pak released Abhi because Pak was scared of India's wrath - that is why Pak Army entered into Indian territory in broad day light to give a jolt to India's highest ranking Army officer? - who are these people - kiss my calcaneus after having a cup of fantastic tea.

And the tell tell sign of some of these RSS followers - none of them ever acknowledge 'the marginalizing of Muslim population" and if they do, the comment always ends with, highest Forex, FDI, Pakistan is poor, etc. lol

-This is my fav - "If you do not understand and listen to us - then good luck." - well, thank your the best wishes - I am so touch that I want to kiss your calcaneus but not having your tea because Pak server the best fantastic tea

Reason to highlight above point, it isn't Pakistan who is the aggressor nor looking for hegemony in the region over smaller nations in the region, it is India and RSS ideology, which wants to obliterate Islam one street at a time, one word of Urdu at a time to bring back the suppose glory of Hindu, this narrative certainly help staunch RSS follower, Modi.

 

[Napa]

What a load of nonsense this thread. As a Kashmiri with family on both sides of the LOC I and many others say what is India’s problem? The land of Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiri people and we have nothing in common with Indians really.

Kashmiri pandits shared the religion of most Indians, but they were murdered and forced to flee. Indians, especially the BJP do not accept forced change in demography.

Back to the British they had to leave India one day and so will the Indians get kicked out of Kashmir eventually. It may not happen soon or in our lifetime but surely will one day.

Reality check. Britain was a country of 50 million ruling a country of 500 million. India is a country of 1,300 million of which Kashmir with a population of 4 million is a part. Also, Kashmiris have the same political rights as other Indians. On the other hand Britain never gave Indians the same political rights that their British citizens had.

Looking at the situation it should be obvious that the only way Kashmir will ever be able to break away from India unless the Indian central government collapses (like happened with Timor and Indonesia). India is however getting more and not less united with time, with regional attempts at breaking away down to an all time low, so there is zero chance of the central government failing.

With the scrapping of 370, the demography of Kashmir may start resembling the rest of India with time.

 

[Napa]

* only way Kashmir will ever be able to break away from India is if the Indian central government collapses

 

[drubwrubnat]

Ive already conceded that both are poor countries.
Also both armies are matched equally more or less, not conventionally - but because of the following -
you have guerilla fighters, and youve got 0 bureaucracy in military, so better leadership, and good strategic stealth tactics ( for ex : your low cost high return ploy in afghanistan ) , and you will have the artificial intelligence soon ( you know how )

Now the question arises -

Both can inflict. Right. I hope you recognise this much.

Are you hell bent on war ? Is it worth fighting?
Or are you being selective?
You have an ulterior motive, is it ?
You want the GeH ?
You can afford GeH ?
This is not a small country folks.
Please be calm & think.
We cant fight forever.

 

[Napa]

-Pakistan need modern industries - no kidding, who would have thought in 2021 Pakistan would need modern industries to enhance its economy - what a unique idea.

It is obvious, but what are you doing about it? Every year Pakistan keeps falling behind and there is declining FDI. So what is your plan to get the FDI and modern industries?

Just because something is obvious doesn't mean it can be ignored

-Pak released Abhi because Pak was scared of India's wrath - that is why Pak Army entered into Indian territory in broad day light to give a jolt to India's highest ranking Army officer? - who are these people - kiss my calcaneus after having a cup of fantastic tea.

That's what your own FM said as relayed by a Pakistani MP.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...sed-pak-oppn-recalls/articleshow/78924776.cms

Objectively, someone comes and bombs your country without a declared war, and instead of putting him on trial you release him post haste?

calcaneus shalcaneus whatever...

 

[drubwrubnat]

I mightnt reply cos I have a major deal course of 2 days, so please dont the bash the living daylights off of me until im back
Peace

 

[Napa]

Ive already conceded that both are poor countries.
Also both armies are matched equally more or less, not conventionally - but because of the following -
you have guerilla fighters, and youve got 0 bureaucracy in military, so better leadership, and good strategic stealth tactics ( for ex : your low cost high return ploy in afghanistan ) , and you will have the artificial intelligence soon ( you know how )

Now the question arises -

Both can inflict. Right. I hope you recognise this much.

Are you hell bent on war ? Is it worth fighting?
Or are you being selective?
You have an ulterior motive, is it ?
You want the GeH ?
You can afford GeH ?
This is not a small country folks.
Please be calm & think.
We cant fight forever.

Peace is unlikely as the Pakistani Army has a very strong incentive for not letting it happen.

So the best India can do is to isolate its major industries from the continuing low-level war. There are some signs it is succeeding.

"India's got the next big thing in tech, and it could be worth $1 trillion"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/tech/india-software-saas-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[LaLoco]

It is obvious, but what are you doing about it? Every year Pakistan keeps falling behind and there is declining FDI. So what is your plan to get the FDI and modern industries?

Just because something is obvious doesn't mean it can be ignored



That's what your own FM said as relayed by a Pakistani MP.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...sed-pak-oppn-recalls/articleshow/78924776.cms

Objectively, someone comes and bombs your country without a declared war, and instead of putting him on trial you release him post haste?

calcaneus shalcaneus whatever...

Indian source, lol

 

[Napa]

Indian source, lol

What about "Objectively, someone comes and bombs your country without a declared war, and instead of putting him on trial you release him post haste?". That is source independent.

Also "Pakistan Muslim League-N (PML-N) leader Ayaz Sadiq said the in National Assembly." Is that a lie?

 

[LaLoco]

What about "Objectively, someone comes and bombs your country without a declared war, and instead of putting him on trial you release him post haste?". That is source independent.

Couldn't find non-Indian source? lol

You are easily triggered whenever RSS and their domestic political narrative is criticized.

 

[Napa]

Couldn't find non-Indian source? lol

You are easily triggered whenever RSS and their domestic political narrative is criticized.

Here is a video of the Pakistani MP saying in the National Assembly what the "Indian source" reported.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSH6jZV5xs4

Happy now?

 

[LaLoco]

What about "Objectively, someone comes and bombs your country without a declared war, and instead of putting him on trial you release him post haste?". That is source independent.

Also "Pakistan Muslim League-N (PML-N) leader Ayaz Sadiq said the in National Assembly." Is that a lie?

LOL - have you ever watched that video? Hahahaha.

Are we Pakistani up against the likes of you in shaping the narrative? no wonder most Pakistani do not waste the time in debating with the RSS, it is making sense now, got it. lol

Have a great time.

 

[Napa]

LOL - have you ever watched that video? Hahahaha.

Are we Pakistani up against the likes of you in shaping the narrative? no wonder most Pakistani do not waste the time in debating with the RSS, it is making sense now, got it. lol

Have a great time.

Of course I watched the video. The Pakistani MP says precisely what the "Indian source" reported.

The above post is a masterpiece of evasion, which gives reason to not reply to the poster in the future.

 

[ElRaja]

indians talking about using kashmir for political leverage whilst their leaders thump chests over so called surgical strikes and fairy tales of shooting down F-16s of an economy that is a tenth of their size.

its fine if you guys want to play that game, but at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that the poisonous and xenophobic hindu nationalism running rampant through india is fed on framing Pakistan as a boogey man.

 

[Napa]

indians talking about using kashmir for political leverage whilst their leaders thump chests over so called surgical strikes and fairy tales of shooting down F-16s of an economy that is a tenth of their size.

its fine if you guys want to play that game, but at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that the poisonous and xenophobic hindu nationalism running rampant through india is fed on framing Pakistan as a boogey man.

What Pakistan as a bogey man?

Do give some examples of Modi commenting on Pakistan’s domestic affairs like IK does regularly for India.

 

[cricket4all]

Kashmiri pandits shared the religion of most Indians, but they were murdered and forced to flee. Indians, especially the BJP do not accept forced change in demography.



Reality check. Britain was a country of 50 million ruling a country of 500 million. India is a country of 1,300 million of which Kashmir with a population of 4 million is a part. Also, Kashmiris have the same political rights as other Indians. On the other hand Britain never gave Indians the same political rights that their British citizens had.

Looking at the situation it should be obvious that the only way Kashmir will ever be able to break away from India unless the Indian central government collapses (like happened with Timor and Indonesia). India is however getting more and not less united with time, with regional attempts at breaking away down to an all time low, so there is zero chance of the central government failing.

With the scrapping of 370, the demography of Kashmir may start resembling the rest of India with time.

Reality Check: Kashmiris with a 4 million population should be heard, given freedom and rights to decide their future. Just because a country has a larger population does not mean or give them the right to control a smaller one. Kashmiris maybe given some same rights on paper but not in reality. Our families had to face curfews, restricted movement, house arrests of hurriyat and other leaders, told what we can an can not do, not even allowed to celebrate a victory of another countries sports victory, not given basic rights and living in fear. India is no way like Kashmir.
Also, Pandits of Jammu should obviously have a say too on their future.

 

[DRsohail]

Personally I do t have any problems with the , yes they have to give Kashmir the right of sel determination.

 

[PakLFC]

At the end of the day it is your country and not mine. So you should be much more eager to fix it.

I had written in the earlier post about Pakistan "a stagnant economy which has been incapable of developing modern industries. This is very apparent from the composition of Pakistan's top exports, which are all low-tech low-value added.
https://www.worldstopexports.com/pak...op-10-exports/"

If you are happy with the current situation, more power to you. Continue on the same path. I believe that path is a disaster for your country, but it is your country and not mine.

You worry about IoK, farmers protest and China sitting in your garden instead of us. Our economy may be struggling but at least we do not have a terrorist PM. How many Muslim's did you kill today in India?

 

[saeedhk]

Its too bad the Kashmiris are too dumb to realize this....

The same with the average Pakistani!

 

[ExpressPacer]

Lol..love these threads. Gives me a good laugh now and then.

I'm surprised this type of verbal diarrhoea is allowed on a Pakistani forum. Of course, I respect the idea of an informed debate but some of the Indian posts (and posters) on here, such as OP, are an absolute disrespect. As [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] has himself pointed out, this is a rant. Mods should look into this. I respect discussions but I come onto this forum not to be drowned in Indian misinformation and propaganda. I didn't wanna read past "Gilgit is ours". An absolute disgrace and disrespect.

 

[ExpressPacer]

The problem is that the majority of people in India think like the OP. You would think India is helpless in the face of Pakistani intransigence rather than being the leader and powerbroker in the region.

I thought it was going to be a serious thread, but just rehash of official Indian propaganda.

Exactly. Its nothing but verbal diarrhoea. I respect the idea of an informed debate where both sides bring valid points but most of the stuff OP is talking about is absolute propaganda and misinformation. This is a Pakistani forum and there needs to be some standards of what should be allowed.

 

[ExpressPacer]

What Pakistan as a bogey man?

Do give some examples of Modi commenting on Pakistan’s domestic affairs like IK does regularly for India.

Kashmir is not Indian domestic affair. Pakistan and its leaders have every right to comment on Kashmir's affairs. Understand that before you comment on a Pakistani forum or don't come here at all.

 

[Napa]

Kashmir is not Indian domestic affair. Pakistan and its leaders have every right to comment on Kashmir's affairs. Understand that before you comment on a Pakistani forum or don't come here at all.

Not come here, really? If a mod like MenInG said that it would carry weight.

Also, I was not referring to Kashmir but IK calling Delhi "rape capital", India being poor in the 1980s when he visited, criticizing Modi's covid response, frequent comparisons between Indian and Pakistani economic performance etc.

 

[Napa]

Reality Check: Kashmiris with a 4 million population should be heard, given freedom and rights to decide their future. Just because a country has a larger population does not mean or give them the right to control a smaller one. Kashmiris maybe given some same rights on paper but not in reality.

I was not commenting on the morality of India keeping Kashmir (though I do believe there are good moral reasons for doing so) rather whether your prediction would come true. In an earlier post you had written ""Back to the British they had to leave India one day and so will the Indians get kicked out of Kashmir eventually. It may not happen soon or in our lifetime but surely will one day".

Also, Pandits of Jammu should obviously have a say too on their future.

That is mighty generous of you, given that it has been 25 years since they were driven out and they risk being murdered if they return.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Personally I do t have any problems with the , yes they have to give Kashmir the right of sel determination.

That decision is between people of j and k the govt of India. No?

Or Pakistan is the self appointed leader who thinks it will dictate terms to India regarding what to do?