What's a Non-Practicing Muslim?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I cannot imagine they would mean it… Its sort of a cultural slang, which comes out without much thought at times… Language slangs that are developed in thousands of years, are not going to go away in a century… Many people celebrate Christmas and Santa to make kids happy, as kids grow older, those things go away...

This is sort of same thing in US retail stores they, start greeting customers with "Happy Holidays" in Christmas season rather than "Mary Christmas"… Sometimes they guess customer's Faith and change the greeting...

BTW: On US dollar, "In God we Trust" phrase came from Republican back in 50s, as a defensive move against the rise of Seculars and Atheists...

I watched Miracle on 34th Street this Christmas and that dollar bill phrase was central to the whole film. I was rooting for Santa 100% by the end, but that's the beauty of art. People buy into emotion far more readily than to cold logic.

 

[James]

Sarcastic, yes. At the thread title as if the concept was unique to muslims only.

On a serious note, I'm willing to bet that there are many Atheists who use phrases like 'Thank God!', 'Thank heaven!!', 'Jesus Christ!!', 'In the lap of the God's', 'God forbid' ..... or even 'God save America ...', and of course not forgetting the singing of the British National Anthem 'God Save the Queen'.

That stuff is truly figure of speech though, it really has no hidden meanings.

 

[Yossarian]

That stuff is truly figure of speech though, it really has no hidden meanings.

Hence my remarks, partly in jest and partly in sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Justcrazy

Originally Posted by Javelin
Why limit the question to muslims only?
Never heard of non-practicing Jews, non-practicing Catholics, non-practicing Sikhs .... ?

That is interesting point. Well made

And of course, don't leave out non-practicing Atheists!

 

[Saeed]

LOL wth is non practicing atheist?

 

[On_the_up]

Did anyone hear about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac who stayed up the whole night wondering whether there was a dog?

 

[FreeBird]

- This is a general problem with Faith, where lot more effort is spend in obedience. Part of the reason religion has success since, nobody challenges the authority/philosophy as soon as divine is attach to it, all debate is over, lets just follow it!!!

lol hahaha.
As if you get into the medicine books and get into the lab and do all sorts of experiments, trials, and perform critique and risk analysis on a medication that a doctor prescribes you to cure a disease.
You know what you do instead? You stricky TRUST and JUST FOLLOW the schedule to make sure you get the medication on time. You don't question it.
But when it comes to faith, it becomes totally the opposite. You don't want to believe or follow unless you are done exhausting yourself with critique, finding holes in theology, and wait for someone to convince your brain which is firm to reject each and every reason provided.

Try to indulge in a logical, scientific, reason based arguement with your doctor next time when he advises you take antibiotics for a throat infection.

 

[sa_09]

We are playing with words here… Problem is with both of them, religion and its follower… Quran never explicitly allow opening doors both ways… Where as incoming traffic is mentioned many times and suggested strongly to preach… This is not just believers phenomena…

Muslims do get defensive about weakness in the ideology, by brushing it as fault of followers, not the religion… This delusion keeps many not to challenge and think deeper about religion, brings more ignorance in the culture… When you are not going to accept the problem, how you are going to solve it? - This is a general problem with Faith, where lot more effort is spend in obedience. Part of the reason religion has success since, nobody challenges the authority/philosophy as soon as divine is attach to it, all debate is over, lets just follow it!!!

Surah Al-Baqara
(255) There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

 

[Yossarian]

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Surah Al-Baqara
(255) There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

This no compulsion in religion in the quran is related to non muslims reverting, not to muslims not practising

It's fair enough, not having the emaan or knowledge to practise properly and being aware of your shortcomings
But making excuses for these shortcomings and interpreting religion based on these excuses for your shortcomings is beyond ridicule

 

[yasir]

lol hahaha.
As if you get into the medicine books and get into the lab and do all sorts of experiments, trials, and perform critique and risk analysis on a medication that a doctor prescribes you to cure a disease.
You know what you do instead? You stricky TRUST and JUST FOLLOW the schedule to make sure you get the medication on time. You don't question it.
But when it comes to faith, it becomes totally the opposite. You don't want to believe or follow unless you are done exhausting yourself with critique, finding holes in theology, and wait for someone to convince your brain which is firm to reject each and every reason provided.

Try to indulge in a logical, scientific, reason based arguement with your doctor next time when he advises you take antibiotics for a throat infection.

Really, you don't talk to doctor about the treatment? - Even doctors recommend you to understand what options you have, specially for complex procedures and get second opinion if you have doubts or procedure is fairly new.

There is no magic about medical science, some things are well understood, others are not so, the literature and data is available for both… For example: Its well known that antibiotic does not work for viral infection, normally doctors don't give you one for those types of infection. Some time I know in Pakistan people insist to get antibiotics any way, many times doctors gave their clients to have a good relationship… Similar Cancer, specially the ones that are not so common, there is less data, most of the times doctors are up front and honest about it… In US, many desi's compliant about doctors here are not giving straight answers (as they do back home), since in many cases answers are neither straight nor certain… Since it is still not prefect, both parties do understand that, goal of science is to keep on improving the knowledge and operating procedures...

As far as religion is concerned, there is no thirst to understand or improve, after all the prefect book was reveled 1400 years ago, why look else where? - With this attitude we are stuck back in 14 century… When you believe the best is already past, what are the chances you are going to improve??

 

[yasir]

Surah Al-Baqara
(255) There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Are you suggesting Islam and Quran is kind to people who converted back or leave Islam at their free will??

I can come up with many that use very violent language for Apostasy and others…

You can read through 47:25 to 47:36 (http://quran.com/47 or any of your favorite site or translation of Quran) for example...

This kind of divine or holy text do fuel hatred in the society and make people less tolerant of other beliefs and ideologies…It is no surprise that we have laws like Blasphemy and violent treatment towards most Faith and Ideologies…

 

[shaz619]

Maybe am one of those, I only pray Jumma There are scholars who classify those who don't pray 5 times a day as kaffirs not that I'd one to be labelled one

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

You bumped a two year old thread for this? Could have just posted it there. Anyway, I don't agree at all. Over the years, as a response to the relentless stream of criticism directed at Islam and Muslims from all corners especially since the beginning of the 21st century, we have developed this coping mechanism where the no true scotsman fallacy is our go to response for any and all criticism. Declaring anyone whose actions or lifestyle we don't agree with not a true Muslim/real Muslim has become something of an easy way out and I don't buy that for a single moment, particularly since I have gone through that phase of declaring undesirable Muslims 'not real Muslims' myself when I was having trouble reconciling my faith with the world around me.

Ultimately, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who considers himself a Muslim i.e. proclaims his belief in Allah and the prophet, and lives lives mostly within the framework of Islam is a practicing Muslim. I don't believe in splitting hairs because that's a slippery slope with no end. If we start calling an otherwise normal Muslim who is corrupt, or doesn't pray five times or has any other imperfections not a true Muslim then where does this stop? Muslims with flawed characters are still Muslims as long as they don't openly denounce their faith. If everyone starts using their own definition of what constitutes a true/real/practicing Muslim based on what is convenient for them to make their point, there would be about five true Muslims out of the 108 billion people who have lived on this earth in the 200'000 odd years since human beings have existed.

My own transition from believer to non believer was very linear in that it was characterized by transitions between clearly defined stages, from practicing Muslim to non practicing one to agnostic to simply not believing, period. Until around the age of 17 I was deeply religious, 5 waqt ka namazi, read the quran with translation, hardly ever lied or violated any other major tenets. Between 17 and 23-24 I was what passes for non practicing Muslim in my book and 99% of Pakistanis are nowhere near what I was during my non-practicing stage with the majority, from what I've observed, actually closer to my practicing Muslim stage so as far as I'm concerned, the majority are practicing Muslims even if deeply flawed ones but then that's human nature and doesn't necessarily make one less of a Muslim.

Moin Akhtar is repeating the same cliches we've heard over and over again from the local cleric to the likes of Imran Khan who thinks Brits and Swedes would become better Muslims than Pakistanis simply by reciting the kalma. In my view that is absolutely not true and simply a way to account for the failure of Muslim societies without pointing a finger at the belief system itself. In other words, a way to make themselves feel better without indulging in too much introspection.

Are Pakistanis better than British & Swedish people when it comes to rights of fellow homo sapiens ?

Islam has taught them to be so ? Or is it otherwise.


Today the Muslim world is facing lots of Problems. Are you suggesting Muslims to debunk Islam to get out of trouble as communities & nations ?


What were the questions which did not get answered at 17 and changed your path ?


Moin Akhtar has pointed out a number of things. Keeping aside Laws & its implementation do you think because of practicing Islam those things have infiltrated in our society ?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Maybe am one of those, I only pray Jumma There are scholars who classify those who don't pray 5 times a day as kaffirs not that I'd one to be labelled one

There is a difference between being called a Kaafir and being called a Non-Muslim. (Majority cannot differentiate between it)


He Pbuh said whoever lies does " Kuffar ".

Now when people lie they do kuffar but by doing kuffar they do not fall outside the ambit of Islam if they claim & profess tp be Muslims.


Similarly if one does not pray than he resembles non-believers as they do not pray. But he cannot be called a Kaafir as Prophet Muhammad Pbuh did not call such muslims as Kaafir.


Wrt Kaafir's meaning wrt religious orientation a Kaafir is a person who does not believe in the Oneness of God.


You should try to pray. May Allah help and bless you but the scholars who say this are wrong. Quran and Hadith contradict with them so they cannot be termed as
" Scholars "

 

[shaz619]

There is a difference between being called a Kaafir and being called a Non-Muslim. (Majority cannot differentiate between it)


He Pbuh said whoever lies does " Kuffar ".

Now when people lie they do kuffar but by doing kuffar they do not fall outside the ambit of Islam if they claim & profess tp be Muslims.


Similarly if one does not pray than he resembles non-believers as they do not pray. But he cannot be called a Kaafir as Prophet Muhammad Pbuh did not call such muslims as Kaafir.


Wrt Kaafir's meaning wrt religious orientation a Kaafir is a person who does not believe in the Oneness of God.


You should try to pray. May Allah help and bless you but the scholars who say this are wrong. Quran and Hadith contradict with them so they cannot be termed as
" Scholars "

Interesting, cheers for the detailed post. I would say I'll try to pray more often but if am honest am not sure if I'll ever get to a stage where I can do it 5 times a day besides on Jumma, in Ramadan I tend to more often though

 

[Justcrazy]

There is a difference between being called a Kaafir and being called a Non-Muslim. (Majority cannot differentiate between it)


He Pbuh said whoever lies does " Kuffar ".

Now when people lie they do kuffar but by doing kuffar they do not fall outside the ambit of Islam if they claim & profess tp be Muslims.


Similarly if one does not pray than he resembles non-believers as they do not pray. But he cannot be called a Kaafir as Prophet Muhammad Pbuh did not call such muslims as Kaafir.


Wrt Kaafir's meaning wrt religious orientation a Kaafir is a person who does not believe in the Oneness of God.


You should try to pray. May Allah help and bless you but the scholars who say this are wrong. Quran and Hadith contradict with them so they cannot be termed as
" Scholars "

Kafir and disbeliever means same thing. That is arabic and other is English.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Kafir and disbeliever means same thing. That is arabic and other is English.

Sorry. What is the point ?

 

[Bilal7]

With all due respect, we do not allow atheists and their like to make baseless, ignorant accusations against Islam. Keep your discussion limited to the premise of the thread which is about what constitutes a non-practicing Muslim and don't delve into debating about Islam itself.

 

[Rayyman]

Interesting, cheers for the detailed post. I would say I'll try to pray more often but if am honest am not sure if I'll ever get to a stage where I can do it 5 times a day besides on Jumma, in Ramadan I tend to more often though

You gotta believe bro. You can do it. It's the bare minimum anyway.

 

[PakLFC]

Read somewhere that according to the Prophet of Islam Rasul Allah(pbuh) it is the keeping of salat that separates a practising believer from non practising Muslim. If the great one said it than that's all I need to know. I accept and I believe.

 

[Justcrazy]

Sorry. What is the point ?

There is a difference between being called a Kaafir and being called a Non-Muslim. (Majority cannot differentiate between it)

^^^ This is what you wrote.

 

[Suleiman]

All these are just man made labels. Non-practicing, half-practicing, or whatever. I guess it would mean someone who believes in the 5 pillars of Islam but doesn't actually pray or apply any of the 5 pillars.

Again, I think it's a meaningless label. If you say and believe the kalima, you declare yourself as a Muslim. Rest Allah knows better whether to consider you as a Muslim or a non-Muslim, who are we to judge.

 

[Slog]

Believes in five pillars of Islam and Kalimah but doesn't take part in the rituals such as daily prayers or fasting or avoiding things which are deemed haram

Which is fine. The only requirement of being considered a Muslim is to believe in the Kalimah

 

[Cinnamon_Cookie]

This is a bit confusing topic for me..

I see women wearing hijabs with so muck makeup on their face n colored nails etc..

I was informed that hijabs are a mark of showing modesty according to Islam.. so if I see a women wearing hijab I would think she's religious. Nothing wrong with being religious . It's their own belief n it's not harming anybody.

But wearing hijab with makeup, isn't that contradicting each other? So why would somebody does this.. are they religious or not?

 

[Rayyman]

This is a bit confusing topic for me..

I see women wearing hijabs with so muck makeup on their face n colored nails etc..

I was informed that hijabs are a mark of showing modesty according to Islam.. so if I see a women wearing hijab I would think she's religious. Nothing wrong with being religious . It's their own belief n it's not harming anybody.

But wearing hijab with makeup, isn't that contradicting each other? So why would somebody does this.. are they religious or not?

We can't judge somebody's faith based on their appearance. Allah knows best what is in our hearts.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

^^^ This is what you wrote.

Ask any Islamic Scholar that will it be necessary for you to believe in Imam Mehdi when he comes ?

He will say Yes.


Ask him that if you don't believe in him will it be okay ?

He ll say No than you will be disbeliever (Kaafir)



What does that mean ?


Does it mean that those people won't be Muslim while they will be believing in all articles and pillars of islam ?

No.


They will only be Kaafir of the Imam Mehdi as they won't believe in him. This does not mean that they won't be Muslim.


Similarly there are Non Muslims who have believed in all the Holy Books and Religions before Islam. They also btlieve in oneness of God (as per original Judaism & Christianity preached by Holy Prophets) yet they are called Kaafir because they did " Inkaar " of He Pbuh and Islam so they are Kaafir of Mohammad e Arabi Pbuh.


Lastly He Pbuh said who so ever Lies does Kuffar.

Who does Kuffar ? A Kaafir.


But if a Muslim lies than does it mean that since he lied so He now became a Kaafir ? No.


The issue amongst different sects these days is calling other Non Muslims by acting as Worldly "Gods". If one has difference with others on beliefs He can say to the other that you have Kuffariya beliefs but He cannot say that You are a Non Muslim. He is no one to say that. Nobody gave him God's authority and power and this is a reason for sectarian killings aswell.


If a Muslim does not pray than he can be told that you are Inkaari of Namaz as you do not pray but he cannot be termed as a Non-Muslim for not praying.

 

[MenInG]

This whole Quran fabrication business is off limits here as we know where such discussions end up.

 

[Hamza_]

I'm a non practising Muslim. However used to be a strict one, But then many and many questions raised over my mind which are still unanswered and now I Feel lost. I don't like the extremism in people, The hypocrisy, Where they want to follow religion they would go onto very extreme levels and aspects of religion they don't want to follow they completely dismiss it. Islam forbids Interest, Lies, Hypocrisy, Drugs.etc but all are common these days. Some aspects are such that you can't live without them in modern day and age

 

[Tired]

This is a bit confusing topic for me..

I see women wearing hijabs with so muck makeup on their face n colored nails etc..

I was informed that hijabs are a mark of showing modesty according to Islam.. so if I see a women wearing hijab I would think she's religious. Nothing wrong with being religious . It's their own belief n it's not harming anybody.

But wearing hijab with makeup, isn't that contradicting each other? So why would somebody does this.. are they religious or not?

Why does it bother you ? They are free to do what ever they want to do ...

 

[MenInG]

This is a bit confusing topic for me..

I see women wearing hijabs with so muck makeup on their face n colored nails etc..

I was informed that hijabs are a mark of showing modesty according to Islam.. so if I see a women wearing hijab I would think she's religious. Nothing wrong with being religious . It's their own belief n it's not harming anybody.

But wearing hijab with makeup, isn't that contradicting each other? So why would somebody does this.. are they religious or not?

Why do you look at them? If you are so concerned, lower your gaze and walk away.

 

[Slog]

Why do you look at them? If you are so concerned, lower your gaze and walk away.

Tbf he isn't saying he ascribes to this view

He is just expressing his confusion at the seemingly contradictory behaviour of these hijabi women. I've noticed is with some as well but I don't really care enough to generally be commenting on it

 

[Rayyman]

I'm a non practising Muslim. However used to be a strict one, But then many and many questions raised over my mind which are still unanswered and now I Feel lost. I don't like the extremism in people, The hypocrisy, Where they want to follow religion they would go onto very extreme levels and aspects of religion they don't want to follow they completely dismiss it. Islam forbids Interest, Lies, Hypocrisy, Drugs.etc but all are common these days. Some aspects are such that you can't live without them in modern day and age

Forget those people. Do your own thing. I heard that some scholars allow interest if you have to live in that way.

 

[Hamza_]

Forget those people. Do your own thing. I heard that some scholars allow interest if you have to live in that way.

Then there is contradictions in religion itself. Also do you believe that in such extremist society and influence bunch one would be able to simply do his thing? The society which is hypocrite can never let you adapt to do your thing element. Culture and Influence is bit of Muslim, Bit of Hindu and Bit of West. It's a mess, As mentioned in my post, Aspects which you just cannot follow in modern day and age.

 

[Justcrazy]

I'm a non practising Muslim. However used to be a strict one, But then many and many questions raised over my mind which are still unanswered and now I Feel lost. I don't like the extremism in people, The hypocrisy, Where they want to follow religion they would go onto very extreme levels and aspects of religion they don't want to follow they completely dismiss it. Islam forbids Interest, Lies, Hypocrisy, Drugs.etc but all are common these days. Some aspects are such that you can't live without them in modern day and age

Even if all the Muslims unite on wrong that does not make that thing as right. You need to follow Islam , not Muslims.

What things one cannot live without these days ? Can you throw some light on that ?

 

[Justcrazy]

Ask any Islamic Scholar that will it be necessary for you to believe in Imam Mehdi when he comes ?

He will say Yes.


Ask him that if you don't believe in him will it be okay ?

He ll say No than you will be disbeliever (Kaafir)



What does that mean ?


Does it mean that those people won't be Muslim while they will be believing in all articles and pillars of islam ?

No.


They will only be Kaafir of the Imam Mehdi as they won't believe in him. This does not mean that they won't be Muslim.


Similarly there are Non Muslims who have believed in all the Holy Books and Religions before Islam. They also btlieve in oneness of God (as per original Judaism & Christianity preached by Holy Prophets) yet they are called Kaafir because they did " Inkaar " of He Pbuh and Islam so they are Kaafir of Mohammad e Arabi Pbuh.


Lastly He Pbuh said who so ever Lies does Kuffar.

Who does Kuffar ? A Kaafir.


But if a Muslim lies than does it mean that since he lied so He now became a Kaafir ? No.


The issue amongst different sects these days is calling other Non Muslims by acting as Worldly "Gods". If one has difference with others on beliefs He can say to the other that you have Kuffariya beliefs but He cannot say that You are a Non Muslim. He is no one to say that. Nobody gave him God's authority and power and this is a reason for sectarian killings aswell.


If a Muslim does not pray than he can be told that you are Inkaari of Namaz as you do not pray but he cannot be termed as a Non-Muslim for not praying.

If any scholar says that not believing in Mahdi AS is kufr , he needs to give proof for that , for making such a Tall claim. Imam Mahdi AS is not a prophet , and it is not fundamental to believe in that. If it was fundamental it would have been mentioned in Quran. A person who makes tawil of those hadeeth , will be excused and called an innovator maximum.

A person not praying is not considered as Kafir , he is considered kafir if he denies obligation of Salah.

 

[Justcrazy]

Similarly there are Non Muslims who have believed in all the Holy Books and Religions before Islam. They also btlieve in oneness of God (as per original Judaism & Christianity preached by Holy Prophets) yet they are called Kaafir because they did " Inkaar " of He Pbuh and Islam so they are Kaafir of Mohammad e Arabi Pbuh.

If someone denies the prophet of his time he is kafir. There is no difference between not believing in Allah swt and not believing in Muhammad SAW , both will end in the same way.

 

[Rayyman]

If any scholar says that not believing in Mahdi AS is kufr , he needs to give proof for that , for making such a Tall claim. Imam Mahdi AS is not a prophet , and it is not fundamental to believe in that. If it was fundamental it would have been mentioned in Quran. A person who makes tawil of those hadeeth , will be excused and called an innovator maximum.

A person not praying is not considered as Kafir , he is considered kafir if he denies obligation of Salah.

It's in Sahih Bukhari.

 

[Adil_94]

a non-practising Muslim who believes in the Prophet as the final messenger from God and believes in Allah. But doesnt observe rituals religiously or practice a dogmatic form of Islam. i.e they dont pray that much if at all they might only fast occasionally. They might drink n do drugs engage in pre marital sex but these definitions are always very slippery. Because i know people who pray quite regularly but engage in pre marital sex. There might be people who are pro Islamist who dont even pray regularly. its someone who values Muslim identity or has affinity with a Muslim identity without all the rituals.

 

[Hamza_]

Even if all the Muslims unite on wrong that does not make that thing as right. You need to follow Islam , not Muslims.

What things one cannot live without these days ? Can you throw some light on that ?

How do you follow something that is not really seemingly practical in modern day which raises questions.

 

[Justcrazy]

It's in Sahih Bukhari.

Brother arriving to conclusions after one hadeeth is not correct thing. You have to look at other hadeeth also and also what commentery says.

For example there is a hadeeth that says when a person does adultery his Iman does not remain inside him , no one says that adultery makes a person kafir.

 

[Justcrazy]

How do you follow something that is not really seemingly practical in modern day which raises questions.

Brother , if you are not specific I cannot tell you my opinion .

 

[speed]

A non practicing Muslim is someone who does not deny any of the fundamental beliefs of Islam, even though they may not fulfill the Mandatory requirements of the religion.

 

[Justcrazy]

A non practicing Muslim is someone who does not deny any of the fundamental beliefs of Islam, even though they may not fulfill the Mandatory requirements of the religion.

Interesting. You see if because of circumstances someone cannot do certain things that is different issue I think. All our actions are judged by intentions.

 

[Bilal7]

Then there is contradictions in religion itself. Also do you believe that in such extremist society and influence bunch one would be able to simply do his thing? The society which is hypocrite can never let you adapt to do your thing element. Culture and Influence is bit of Muslim, Bit of Hindu and Bit of West. It's a mess, As mentioned in my post, Aspects which you just cannot follow in modern day and age.

There are millions of people in the West following these "aspects". You may personally find it difficult depending on your personal situation but don't try and claim that no one follows these "aspects".

 

[Syed1]

A non practicing Muslim is someone who does not deny any of the fundamental beliefs of Islam, even though they may not fulfill the Mandatory requirements of the religion.

That is the description I was looking for in this thread.


I would say majority of young Pakistanis (18-25) whether living in Pakistan or abroad, follow the basic tenets of Islam, like believing in the oneness of Allah and Muhammad (P.B.U.H) being his last prophet. These folks eat halal and do not indulge in drinking or consuming pig meat. However, their extent of Islam ends there. They do not pray five times a day, are often irregular with their fasting during Ramzaan and do not go out of their way to give Sadqa and Zaka'at.



P.S when I say "they" I include myself in it too, unfortunately.

 

[MrBrownstone]

I'm pretty sure if God wanted everyone to be one religion he would have made them that way and believing that people who do not follow your religion are destined towards hell is also wrong.

 

[Hamza_]

There are millions of people in the West following these "aspects". You may personally find it difficult depending on your personal situation but don't try and claim that no one follows these "aspects".

You can never evaluate people in absolute terms. The code of conduct for a religion as such is not applicable.

 

[Rayyman]

That is the description I was looking for in this thread.


I would say majority of young Pakistanis (18-25) whether living in Pakistan or abroad, follow the basic tenets of Islam, like believing in the oneness of Allah and Muhammad (P.B.U.H) being his last prophet. These folks eat halal and do not indulge in drinking or consuming pig meat. However, their extent of Islam ends there. They do not pray five times a day, are often irregular with their fasting during Ramzaan and do not go out of their way to give Sadqa and Zaka'at.



P.S when I say "they" I include myself in it too, unfortunately.

Not to pat myself on the back, but I do that. Which means it is possible.

 

[Rayyman]

I'm pretty sure if God wanted everyone to be one religion he would have made them that way and believing that people who do not follow your religion are destined towards hell is also wrong.

Yea, but you don't know what God thinks. He could do whatever he wants.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Believing that people who do not follow your religion are destined towards hell is also wrong.

This is Correct not only rationally, logically but Islamically aswell.

 

[Square Drive]

We can't judge somebody's faith based on their appearance. Allah knows best what is in our hearts.

That's what I thought to, until someone asked me, "in that case, you're not sure if your father is a Muslim or not?"

Which was a very good question. How would you respond to that?

 

[Rayyman]

That's what I thought to, until someone asked me, "in that case, you're not sure if your father is a Muslim or not?"

Which was a very good question. How would you respond to that?

Well I'm guessing you would know whether or not your father is a Muslim.

 

[Justcrazy]

That is the description I was looking for in this thread.

P.S when I say "they" I include myself in it too, unfortunately.

When you say its unfortunately , why you do not change it , at least try ? Its never late.

 

[Justcrazy]

I'm pretty sure if God wanted everyone to be one religion he would have made them that way and believing that people who do not follow your religion are destined towards hell is also wrong.

In that case do you not think it better , if God had made this world as Paradise , no tests or trials , just everlasting Paradise , what you say ?

 

[Rayyman]

In that case do you not think it better , if God had made this world as Paradise , no tests or trials , just everlasting Paradise , what you say ?

There would be no point in creating us then imo.

 

[Square Drive]

Well I'm guessing you would know whether or not your father is a Muslim.

Well, you can't judge him based on his appearance, can you?

What if he doesn't believe in the heart?

But since it's your father, you're gonna break the rules for him eh.

 

[Rayyman]

Well, you can't judge him based on his appearance, can you?

What if he doesn't believe in the heart?

But since it's your father, you're gonna break the rules for him eh.

Yea I guess you wouldn't know for sure; But why would someone fake praying salah anyway?

 

[Square Drive]

Yea I guess you wouldn't know for sure; But why would someone fake praying salah anyway?

Exactly, which is why I think it's OK to judge from one's outward appearance.

Of course, this does NOT mean label people Kafir, Muslim, etc.

For instance, if someone tells me Donald Trump might be Muslim, I'd straight up think they need mental help.

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

Some good arguments here.

One interesting example could be that of music. It is strictly haram by the pure laws of Islam( i think there was a thread on that recently)

But It is virtually impossible to live in the west especially as a college student and filter out all music. I mean at my university, Music analysis is a required class.

Almost all of my Muslim friends would listen to music in the gym. There is music in ads, shopping malls, even hospitals.

 

[Rayyman]

Some good arguments here.

One interesting example could be that of music. It is strictly haram by the pure laws of Islam( i think there was a thread on that recently)

But It is virtually impossible to live in the west especially as a college student and filter out all music. I mean at my university, Music analysis is a required class.

Almost all of my Muslim friends would listen to music in the gym. There is music in ads, shopping malls, even hospitals.

Agree with most points, but I think music without lyrics is okay.

 

[Justcrazy]

There would be no point in creating us then imo.

That is the point I wanted to convey.

 

[Justcrazy]

Some good arguments here.

One interesting example could be that of music. It is strictly haram by the pure laws of Islam( i think there was a thread on that recently)

But It is virtually impossible to live in the west especially as a college student and filter out all music. I mean at my university, Music analysis is a required class.

Almost all of my Muslim friends would listen to music in the gym. There is music in ads, shopping malls, even hospitals.

You will be responsible for only the Music that you start. You are not responsible for what is played in Malls or trains or roads.

 

[aloo paratha]

tend to call them "naam kai musalmaan" meaning that they're Muslim(believe in Allah, may have finished Quran once) but based upon their daily activities, you wouldn't think they'd be the ones going to heaven. You see this very often in the west and especially at the teen age, it's sad really. Muslim students with girlfriends/boyfriends, never pray. That's my thinking of it.

 

[aloo paratha]

Interesting, cheers for the detailed post. I would say I'll try to pray more often but if am honest am not sure if I'll ever get to a stage where I can do it 5 times a day besides on Jumma, in Ramadan I tend to more often though

Bro, I don't know if this will help just think, you give 5-10 minutes 5 times a day to Allah out of your 24 hours in a day, that's not that big of a loss to your time, we slack off for longer than that but when it comes to praying, "it takes too long". Remember, give your time here, earn a pleasure filled time in the afterlife, waste your time here, suffer. The life after this one doesn't end, make sure you don't regret it. This is not just for you, for everyone no matter where they're at.

 

[Suleiman]

Wow, nice to see some of the younger posters here having such discipline when it comes to following the main requirements. Kind of an inspiration of sorts.

 

[shaz619]

Bro, I don't know if this will help just think, you give 5-10 minutes 5 times a day to Allah out of your 24 hours in a day, that's not that big of a loss to your time, we slack off for longer than that but when it comes to praying, "it takes too long". Remember, give your time here, earn a pleasure filled time in the afterlife, waste your time here, suffer. The life after this one doesn't end, make sure you don't regret it. This is not just for you, for everyone no matter where they're at.

It doesn't really take long tbh the main challenge is waking up for fajr and praying isha anyhow I don't have any excuses but I have my demons

 

[shaz619]

Wow, nice to see some of the younger posters here having such discipline when it comes to following the main requirements. Kind of an inspiration of sorts.

definetly, [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION] is a good lad to mA

 

[Suleiman]

definetly, [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION] is a good lad to mA

Is prayer even mandatory on him yet?

Jk good kid mA.

 

[shaz619]

Is prayer even mandatory on him yet?

Jk good kid mA.

He is beyond his years

 

[aloo paratha]

It doesn't really take long tbh the main challenge is waking up for fajr and praying isha anyhow I don't have any excuses but I have my demons

Shaz always a bright character eh? If I read that I'd have goosebumps.

It just takes one alarm bro, tell yourself about the consequence and you'll pray no matter which condition you're in, sleepy, tired, anything.

 

[shaz619]

Shaz always a bright character eh? If I read that I'd have goosebumps.

It just takes one alarm bro, tell yourself about the consequence and you'll pray no matter which condition you're in, sleepy, tired, anything.

When I was younger I use to a lot more often was such a spiritual dude but then I went from this innocent/pure being to an edgy character due to unforeseen turbulence, the narrative is pretty compelling and perhaps I shall return to my roots iA and be the symbol of excellence I once was. Am waiting for that get bit by a spider moment so I can become a superhero again but for now I'll allow the younger generation to inspire us all

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION] I've come full circle and became everything I hated, the pantomime villain whom you must destroy to cement everything you stand for as a super-hero, you must destroy me to complete your initiation amongst the elite, I can not be saved! farther will not forgive the sins of a treacherous Outlaw!

 

[Square Drive]

definetly, [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION] is a good lad to mA

Is prayer even mandatory on him yet?

Jk good kid mA.

He is beyond his years

Means a lot brothers, thanks for that.

It doesn't really take long tbh the main challenge is waking up for fajr and praying isha anyhow I don't have any excuses but I have my demons

Some real good posts by [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION] above.

Isha for me is tiring too, I usually end up praying at 1 AM lol and I wake up for Fajr once in a blue moon (usually pray when I wake up for school, which is not too late in the winters tbh).

But hey, it's still better than not praying at all.

As Aloo said, just put in the hard yards.

 

[Rayyman]

Means a lot brothers, thanks for that.



Some real good posts by [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION] above.

Isha for me is tiring too, I usually end up praying at 1 AM lol and I wake up for Fajr once in a blue moon (usually pray when I wake up for school, which is not too late in the winters tbh).

But hey, it's still better than not praying at all.

As Aloo said, just put in the hard yards.

Yup, Isha is tough. If I am really tired, then I just pray 4 fard and knock out. Another cheap tactic of mine is to drink 2 glasses of water before I sleep so I am guaranteed to wake up in the middle of the night. Then I pray Ish'a at like 3 AM . [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION] it seems like you haven't stopped your night owl tendencies yet?

 

[Square Drive]

Yup, Isha is tough. If I am really tired, then I just pray 4 fard and knock out. Another cheap tactic of mine is to drink 2 glasses of water before I sleep so I am guaranteed to wake up in the middle of the night. Then I pray Ish'a at like 3 AM . [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION] it seems like you haven't stopped your night owl tendencies yet?

Haha.

Nah man, this grade 12 is so freaking hard, especially the waking up early bit.

Don't remember sleeping before 12 AM in the past couple years, actually.

Usually 1 AM or 1:30 AM these days, my bedtime.

Start my work around 7 PM ish and am always tired so keep slacking.

Can't wait 'till the weekend, though this next week I have bare work. Killer week coming up.

Anyhow let's get back on track lol, carry this to the Random Talk Thread if you wish.

 

[aloo paratha]

Means a lot brothers, thanks for that.



Some real good posts by [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION] above.

Isha for me is tiring too, I usually end up praying at 1 AM lol and I wake up for Fajr once in a blue moon (usually pray when I wake up for school, which is not too late in the winters tbh).

But hey, it's still better than not praying at all.

As Aloo said, just put in the hard yards.

Lol I felt that, to avoid that, I just pray as soon as it's time.

 

[Rayyman]

Lol I felt that, to avoid that, I just pray as soon as it's time.

That takes a lot of willpower to do with Ish'a.

 

[Rayyman]

When I was younger I use to a lot more often was such a spiritual dude but then I went from this innocent/pure being to an edgy character due to unforeseen turbulence, the narrative is pretty compelling and perhaps I shall return to my roots iA and be the symbol of excellence I once was. Am waiting for that get bit by a spider moment so I can become a superhero again but for now I'll allow the younger generation to inspire us all

You asked for the inspiration, you got it: That spider will never come to bite you. You have to go look for it. When Allah sees that you want the spider really badly, he will send it to you. Only then, will the spider bite you; And you will become the superhero you wanted to become all along.