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Which series is bigger: The Ashes or the Border-Gavaskar trophy?

Which series is bigger?

  • The Ashes

    Votes: 29 51.8%
  • Border-Gavaskar Trophy

    Votes: 27 48.2%

  • Total voters
    56

Devadwal

Test Star
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Runs
39,974
The Ashes has bigger legacy than border Gavaskar trophy no question about that.

But from last decade or this century the quality of cricket in BGT were better than The Ashes

Ashes is only competitive in england but in australia it is one sided affairs in favour of Aussies .
 
Ashes has more history, banter and probably means more to both sets of players so my preference is that. The way the crowd gets involved is amazing as well.

However for a long time it's not really been between the two best sides in cricket.

BGT is the proper battle between the two best test sides. It doesn't have the same context as the Ashes but it is great viewing too and high intensity cricket.

For me it's still the Ashes. The next one will be even spicier due to Bazball element but BGT is great cricket too.
 
Border Gavaskar trophy easily as it is more keenly contested. There is a reason, ACB added 1 more test this time.

Ashes is mostly one way traffic for Australia.

Ask any modern day Englishmen or Aussie like @Junaids ....they would concur that British/Aussie public like to see more of King Kohli and Prince Gill on their shores than boring Ashes games.
 
Border Gavaskar trophy easily as it is more keenly contested. There is a reason, ACB added 1 more test this time.

Ashes is mostly one way traffic for Australia.

Ask any modern day Englishmen or Aussie like @Junaids ....they would concur that British/Aussie public like to see more of King Kohli and Prince Gill on their shores than boring Ashes games.
True for cricket crazy fans but seasonal fans it is still ashes due to history.
 
Ashes- got the history, vestiges of colonialism and a permanent 5 test series. Ashes series win can lead to knighthoods, open bus parades, BGT meh.

BGT only has 20 years of needling to go for it. As for fellow Indian chest beating about BGT being bigger- India has won only the last 2 series only in Oz, prior to that they were 2-0 , 4-0, 2-1, 2-0 etc affairs

Hardly definition of competing on even keel.

BGT currently is what WI-Oz contests of the yore used to be, exciting but wont last the test of time.

Both Eng and Oz can transform to rubbish cricketing teams, Ashes will still be a hot ticket item.
 
I am tempted to say Border/Gavaskar trophy, simply because the trophy has not been tainted with the name & glorification of the mediocre Sachin Tendulkar.
 
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I am tempted to say Border/Gavaskar trophy, simply because the trophy has not been tainted with the name & glorification of the mediocre Sachin Tendulkar.

That is bcoz Sachin retired just few years ago. SRT is the biggest sporting icon in Australia. They still cant forget his Perth century as a 18 years old which till date is one of the, if not the greatest test knock played on those shores. In future, there are high chances the name will be changed to Goddy-Warne trophy.

:srt :warne
 
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At the moment the highest quality cricket series would be India v Australia.

The Ashes is the more significant meet historically and culturally, though. For such a longstanding rivalry, it’s also been fairly tight in terms of series results. 34-32 on Ashes wins with 7 drawn series represents a good contest overall.

Australia has won more Ashes Tests than England, winning 140 of the 340 matches, compared to England's 108 victories. Australia also holds the edge in Ashes series won, having won on 34 occasions compared to England's 32. There have been seven drawn series, and on six of these occasions, Australia has retained the Ashes due to being holders going into the series. England has retained the Ashes after a drawn series once.
 
The Border Gavaskar trophy definitely makes for great viewing.

They've pretty much always been close. India's won 24, Australia 20 with only 12 draws so that makes for great viewing.

SeasonHostTestsAustraliaIndiaDrawsTiesResultHolderPlayer of the series
1996–97
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
10100IndiaIndiaIndia Nayan Mongia
1997–98
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
31200IndiaIndiaIndia Sachin Tendulkar
1999–2000
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
33000AustraliaAustraliaIndia Sachin Tendulkar
2000–01
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
31200IndiaIndiaIndia Harbhajan Singh
2003–04
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
41120DrawnIndiaIndia Rahul Dravid
2004–05
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
42110AustraliaAustraliaAustralia Damien Martyn
2007–08
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
42110AustraliaAustraliaAustralia Brett Lee
2008–09
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
40220IndiaIndiaIndia Ishant Sharma
2010–11
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
20200IndiaIndiaIndia Sachin Tendulkar
2011–12
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
44000AustraliaAustraliaAustralia Michael Clarke
2012–13
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
40400IndiaIndiaIndia Ravichandran Ashwin
2014–15
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
42020AustraliaAustraliaAustralia Steve Smith
2016–17
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
41210IndiaIndiaIndia Ravindra Jadeja
2018–19
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
41210IndiaIndiaIndia Cheteshwar Pujara
2020–21
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
41210IndiaIndiaAustralia Pat Cummins
2022–23
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India
41210IndiaIndiaIndia Ravindra Jadeja
India Ravichandran Ashwin
2024–25
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia
5
Total​
56202412
-​

However, they're still young and have only just graduated to a 5 test series so I would say it need another 10-15 years or so to become the premiere test cricket event.
 
Ashes has more history, banter and probably means more to both sets of players so my preference is that. The way the crowd gets involved is amazing as well.

However for a long time it's not really been between the two best sides in cricket.

BGT is the proper battle between the two best test sides. It doesn't have the same context as the Ashes but it is great viewing too and high intensity cricket.

For me it's still the Ashes. The next one will be even spicier due to Bazball element but BGT is great cricket too.
Bazball is for who don't have Technical game to survive in test cricket.

On point there is no doubt that ashes has bigger history but in last few decades its one sided affairs in Australia and only competitive in England.

Whats Australia fan's want - The ashes win or BGT?

I think hardcore cricket fan chose BGT rather than Ashes .they already won Ashes so many time's but hardly win BGT these day's .

For casual fan's i think Ashes is still premiere Trophy
 
At the moment the highest quality cricket series would be India v Australia.

The Ashes is the more significant meet historically and culturally, though. For such a longstanding rivalry, it’s also been fairly tight in terms of series results. 34-32 on Ashes wins with 7 drawn series represents a good contest overall.

Australia has won more Ashes Tests than England, winning 140 of the 340 matches, compared to England's 108 victories. Australia also holds the edge in Ashes series won, having won on 34 occasions compared to England's 32. There have been seven drawn series, and on six of these occasions, Australia has retained the Ashes due to being holders going into the series. England has retained the Ashes after a drawn series once.
Depends where its being played. If in Eng, then it will be a tight competition and a riveting watch. Oz havent really won in Eng since 2001?

2005 was one of ATG series. 2009 onwards were mostly Oz teams being rubbish plus Broad factor. Only the last 2 Ashes series were somewhat interesting, else Eng winning at home was a foregone conclusion.
 
When was the last time a series were alive going through last test on fifth day in last hours in Australia?
 
On point there is no doubt that ashes has bigger history but in last few decades its one sided affairs in Australia and only competitive in England.

Whats Australia fan's want - The ashes win or BGT?

I think hardcore cricket fan chose BGT rather than Ashes .they already won Ashes so many time's but hardly win BGT these day's .

Australia haven’t beaten England in England in an Ashes series since 2001. Australian fans definitely have that one either at the top of their list or very near the top.
 
Australia haven’t beaten England in England in an Ashes series since 2001. Australian fans definitely have that one either at the top of their list or very near the top.
Yea right but australia had drawn last two Ashes in england while smashed them in australia .
Last four Ashes - 2 win by Australia and 2 drawn

Last four BGT - All were won by india so they desperate to win one BGT even at home .
 
Tbh I forgot what border gasvaskar trophy even was before this thread popped up. Ashes for sure, although England is where they should be played imo
 
Ofcourse Ashes is a bigger series for people belonging to Anglo Saxon traditions but BGT has gain some popularity of late.
 
Once it was Ashes when England was compitent enugh to compete with Australia but now i think Border-Gavasker series has more value due to the balance of compitition.
 
Ashes is for historical reasons. One of the rivalry that keeps Test matches still relevant. India rivalry with Australia is purely for cricketing reasons. It is lucky that they rarely got stuck in mediocre state. Both teams hads their downs. But they were quick to recover. For instance India whitewashed Australia 4-0 in India in 2013. Australia returned the favor by whiewashing india in Australia.
 
Tbh I forgot what border gasvaskar trophy even was before this thread popped up. Ashes for sure, although England is where they should be played imo
Ofcourse for pakistan fan's pakistan odi cup is more important than BGT .
 
Ofcourse for pakistan fan's pakistan odi cup is more important than BGT .
The reason why I forgot about it, is because I don't get the fancy talk of labelling an india-Australian test series and giving it a fancy name.

Ashes has historical significance but border gavasakar is so lazy? Literally what's the relevance of calling an India vs Australia test series and naming is after Alan border and sunny?

Just quit the drama and call it india vs Australia like a normal person.
 
Currently India vs Australia in Australia is the highest form and quality of Test cricket that was put together in the 21st century...by far. Only series that could come close was Smith's SA vs Ponting's Aus in the 2000s.

Yes Ashes has historical significance but in terms of pure cricketing intensity, BGT currently would be the equivalent of Pep's Barca vs Mourinho's Madrid.
 
The reason why I forgot about it, is because I don't get the fancy talk of labelling an india-Australian test series and giving it a fancy name.

Ashes has historical significance but border gavasakar is so lazy? Literally what's the relevance of calling an India vs Australia test series and naming is after Alan border and sunny?

Just quit the drama and call it india vs Australia like a normal person.
Thoughts on Richards- Botham Trophy & Frank Worrell trophy? Yes they do exist and Oz play in 1 of those....
 
Thoughts on Richards- Botham Trophy & Frank Worrell trophy? Yes they do exist and Oz play in 1 of those....
I'm sure they exist but I hardly remember them by name.

I only remember ct, WC, t20 wc, ashes, Wtc and Asia cup. Otherwise test series between 2 sides I don't really remember by name.
 
Tbh I forgot what border gasvaskar trophy even was before this thread popped up. Ashes for sure, although England is where they should be played imo
Tbf no one cares for cricket in aus. Nobody.

Ashes too is only for summer. Just to poke fun at England. And no Aussies do not whatsoever hate the English people. They love to worship them. It's just cricket banter.

Aus have zero pressure in most sports to do well. No surprise they do well in krikut and hockey.
 
Ashes is for historical reasons. One of the rivalry that keeps Test matches still relevant. India rivalry with Australia is purely for cricketing reasons. It is lucky that they rarely got stuck in mediocre state. Both teams hads their downs. But they were quick to recover. For instance India whitewashed Australia 4-0 in India in 2013. Australia returned the favor by whiewashing india in Australia.
Aus whitewashed us in 2011 .in 2014,they won 2-0.
 
I'm sure they exist but I hardly remember them by name.

I only remember ct, WC, t20 wc, ashes, Wtc and Asia cup. Otherwise test series between 2 sides I don't really remember by name.
Normally if they are named after a trophy,they will become rolling trophies almost by default. So even if series is tied,previous winner will retain the trophy.there is no such luxury for a normal series.
 
Ashes for historic reasons.

Purely on quality of cricket, Border Gavaskar Trophy is better in last 25 years.

Ashes in England is really quality. England just don't allow Australia to win a series there although you can also say that they just don't dominate Australia at home the way Australia dominates them at home.
 
Ashes has more history behind them , but right now India vs Australia is the most exciting and keenly fought Test series.
 
Ashes has a history of decades-old rivalry while BGT is still comparatively new when compared to the Ashes.

Ashes' hype is going down every year while BGT is getting some attention, especially from India because they have been beating Australia in their own backyard and Aussies do not like to lose.

Right now, Ashes is a bigger name due to its history.
 
Ashes is a real rivalry with plenty of history.

BGT is more like a benchmark series. Like WI-AUS, SA-AUS series of the past.


For the same reason why India PAK will always be a greater rivalry in the eyes of masses in the SC too

Pakistan are absolutely minnowesque and will probably be even more talentless in a decade with pacers , spinners and batters who won't even make Bangladesh's side but the political and cultural rivalry will ensure that it's more watched than any other series.
 

Lot's of Australia cricketers including Ponting, Clarke,Finch ,Starc are already said BGT is equal to Ashes now.

The Ashes is century's old rivalry and BGT is just 30 year old but already giving taught challenge to Ashes.
 
Ashes all the way. BGT is india shoving their bhoota into a tradition and copying the west as usual.

Seriously when will india ever invent something new?
 
The fierce competition between India and Australia both home and away has enthralled the fans bringing the rivalry between the two teams at par with the Ashes. Speaking about the significance of the series for Cricket Australia, Hockley revealed that both are comparable in terms of commercial value as they bring in crowd and large viewership on broadcast. :kp
 
Former skipper Ricky Ponting compared the rivalry between Australia and India to that of the Ashes, stating that these two series are the battles in world cricket that everyone looks forward to seeing.

The Ashes has been around for 142 years, with 345 Tests played under it. Australia have won 142 matches as compared to England’s 110. On the other hand, the Border-Gavaskar Trophy was constituted in 1996/97, with India winning 24 matches and Australia emerging victorious on 20 occasions.

“Australia-England, with the history of the Ashes, but Australia-India is not far behind that and it’s built up over a long period of time. I think we all look forward to these sorts of battles. As a past player, as a commentator, I want to see these two teams go out there and play hard and fair and then see who is left standing at the end of the next five games,” said Ponting on the ICC Review Show.

India has won the Border-Gavaskar Trophy on last four occasions – both at home and away conditions – since 2016/17. The trophy, named after the first two batsmen to pass 10,000 runs from their respective countries – Allan Border and Sunil Gavaskar – will be up for grabs again when India and Australia play first Test at Perth on November 22.

He also expects for the upcoming series, with later matches to be played in Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney, to produce edge of the seat stuff and competitive cricket. “I don’t know if spice is the right word, but I expect the game to be played sort of almost on the edge, if you like, with two of the best teams in the world not wanting to give an inch to each other.”

“Not wanting to give an inch to the opposition, not wanting to lose a single contest through the course of those whole five Test matches. And I think that’s the beauty about these great rivalries we have in world sport. I’ve spoken the last couple of days about Australia-India in a Test match now, it’s as big a rivalry as there is in world sport, not just cricket,” he concluded.
 

Lot's of Australia cricketers including Ponting, Clarke,Finch ,Starc are already said BGT is equal to Ashes now.

The Ashes is century's old rivalry and BGT is just 30 year old but already giving taught challenge to Ashes.
If the Aussies legends have said it and the Aussie fans agree, then thats the end of the debate.
 
Ponting said on that video that move over England, India is now our biggest rival.

Meanwhile Pakistanis, Hum nehi maante

:rabada2
 
No way

Ashes has like 100 plus year legacy. Colonial losers have a strong history.

Bgt is raw and new.

So no. Ashes is more important to aus. Then bgt.

But big games wise yes bgt would be considered harder cause india is/was. Strong team until they lost at home 3 0
 
Ponting said on that video that move over England, India is now our biggest rival.

Meanwhile Pakistanis, Hum nehi maante

:rabada2
Just for show. For mullah. They don't consider bgt at the same level as ashes.
 
No way

Ashes has like 100 plus year legacy. Colonial losers have a strong history.

Bgt is raw and new.

So no. Ashes is more important to aus. Then bgt.

But big games wise yes bgt would be considered harder cause india is/was. Strong team until they lost at home 3 0

When you evaluate Ashes you look home and away . But if you strictly talk about away Ashes for England this has been no contest. Since 1990 out of 10 test series Australia has won 9 at home England just once in Australia. It is an unanimous opinion among aussies, India puts up the best show down under for a long time. With all the controversies on and offthe field it only added more spice.
 
Ponting said on that video that move over England, India is now our biggest rival.

Meanwhile Pakistanis, Hum nehi maante

:rabada2
Even the hardcore English fans view this way


England are just whipping boys abroad. Here's why India vs Australia is now bigger than the Ashes, writes Wisden Editor LAWRENCE BOOTH​

 
Pakistani can compare who is bigger rivalry : India - Pakistan or Pakistan - Zimbabwe .

:kp

The Ashes rivalry is built on historical animosity dating back over centuries, it is not about relative strength of teams at any given period. That is why Pakistan-India games generate interest outside of the subcontinent, the politics add the spice. It's why you post here as well if you are still in any doubt about it.
 
Let me understand this: argument 1: Ind-Pak match if it doesn’t happen entire ICC will collapse because look at the ratings and numbers.

Argument 2: Ind-Aus series is not bigger than the ashes despite what the numbers and viewerships suggest because white people play each other and it has a legacy.

Ok.
 
Ashes is bigger. No doubts about that. History behind Ashes to be compared with BGT?? NAY
 
Let me understand this: argument 1: Ind-Pak match if it doesn’t happen entire ICC will collapse because look at the ratings and numbers.

Argument 2: Ind-Aus series is not bigger than the ashes despite what the numbers and viewerships suggest because white people play each other and it has a legacy.

Ok.

Indian matches will always have bigger numbers because there are billions of Indians around the world who watch it, even if they are playing Bangladesh.
 
Indian matches will always have bigger numbers because there are billions of Indians around the world who watch it, even if they are playing Bangladesh.
Ok, so what’s your conclusion? Ind-Aus will have more viewership and hype then ashes? That confirms the topic. No?
 
The Ashes rivalry is built on historical animosity dating back over centuries, it is not about relative strength of teams at any given period. That is why Pakistan-India games generate interest outside of the subcontinent, the politics add the spice. It's why you post here as well if you are still in any doubt about it.
There is zero animosity between English and Aussies lmao. Just friendly banter.

Only desi think they hate each other. Aussie worship the poms in reality. They are still under their monarchy fgs.

But yes rich legacy in terms of sporting events. That is correct. They have colonial history. But there is zero animosity between the 2 nations.
 
There is zero animosity between English and Aussies lmao. Just friendly banter.

Only desi think they hate each other. Aussie worship the poms in reality. They are still under their monarchy fgs.

But yes rich legacy in terms of sporting events. That is correct. They have colonial history. But there is zero animosity between the 2 nations.

Yes that has been reduced to friendly banter these days, they have grown beyond the historical animosity. But that is what created the legacy, and for those two countries it is still what gives it relevance. Otherwise why even call it the Ashes?
 

Legend’s stunning proof this summer could be ‘bigger than the Ashes’ amid Kohli warning​


A quarter century after debuting against India in the Boxing Day Test, Brett Lee believes the Border-Gavaskar Trophy now rivals the Ashes as Australia’s most important series.


The champion bowler, who became the first Australian since Dennis Lillee to take five wickets in an innings on debut in a stunning effort at the MCG, argues a case can be made to say it is bigger than the clashes against England given the focus on the series.


“I would say it is definitely right up there. As a young kid, for me, it was all about the Ashes. To wear the ‘Baggy Green’ and to have the chance to play against England was where it was,” he said.

“Whereas now, the Border-Gavaskar Trophy, you think about the viewership – there are 1.5 billion people in India who all love cricket – and there are a million people of south-Asian heritage here in Australia. And they all love cricket, so it is definitely right up there, if not even bigger.”

Cricket Australia chief executive Nick Hockley, who spoke at the Fox Cricket and Kayo Sports Summer of Cricket launch in Melbourne on Tuesday, is predicting the series beginning on Friday in Perth will sit among the most watched of all-time.

“I think this is going to be the most watched series, certainly on TV, but I think the same goes in terms of people at the ground,” he said.

“We have got to remember it’s the first time in over 30 years that we’ve played five Test matches against India, which is great because it means all the big cities, everyone’s going to be able to come along.


“Ticket sales are up 150 per cent on this time the last time we were able to open the gates, so it’s going to be huge.”

Lee believes India’s famous triumph in the second Test in Kolkata in 2001, which is being profiled on foxsports.com.au and on Fox Cricket ahead of the series opener, set the tone for what has become a fascinating rivalry.

“I have been going to India for 30 years now and just the way it has changed, I pinpoint it to when VVS Laxman and Dravid batted for the whole day, and that really turned the tide for (India), I think,” he said.


“They believed that they could not only match Australia but beat Australia as well. Then that belief – obviously the superstar foundation laid by the likes of Sachin Tendulkar, (Rahul) Dravid and (VVS) Laxman and now the (Virat) Kohli’s of the day.”

The spotlight is on Kohli, who has performed brilliantly against Australia but has dipped in form over the past couple of seasons. But Lee has no doubt the champion will fire.


He said it would be a mistake to offer Kohli any additional motivation to succeed as India seek to continue their decade-long hold on the Border Gavaskar Trophy.

“There has been a lot of speculation and conjecture around Kohli’s form and I can promise you that when he gets out here, he will be raring to go, because he is a superstar,” he said.

“It is an old cliche where you don’t want to try to play against the name. You try to treat him, with all due respect, as (another) batsman. And it was the same when I was bowling against Sachin Tendulkar. You can get overawed by the stature of the guy and the history and what he has achieved, but the thing with Kohli is that he loves to get into a scrap. And I mean that in a nice way. He loves to get himself up for the competition.

“I think the captains I played under – Ricky Ponting and Steve Waugh – were very, very similar, so from a bowling point of view, you don’t want to fire these guys up. You want to stay in your lane and try to get them out early.

“I have been on the receiving end many, many times of a Sachin Tendulkar hundred, or a Kohli hundred, so you have to pitch the ball up and get them to nick it off early. I would not be chirping him.”

Lee is hopeful the series is alive come the final Test in Sydney but said the first two matches of the series in Perth and Adelaide will provide a proper indication as to what will unfold.

“I think it is going to be nice and close,” he said.

“I would love, from a cricket point of view and from a fan point of view, to get to Sydney and hopefully look at it being maybe 2-all in Sydney and going down to the last session.

“But in all honesty, I think it comes down to the first two Tests. The first session will really determine how Australia are going to play and what their intent is and how India will come out and go on these nice, fast, bouncy wickets.”
 
The way Rajdeep sees it -

People who considers BGT is bigger series - Indians and Aussies

People who considers Ashes is bigger series - Brits and Pakistanis

How I came to that conclusion?

Well, Ponting himself said move over Eng, it is India who is our biggest rival.

Fox Sports is doing Hindi commentary and CA added an extra test this time show how highly they rate it.

Pat Cummins interview in Fox where he said this is the only trophy missing from his and his teams cabinet and they are desperate to win this series.

On the other hand, Micahel Vaughan was saying (read trolling) that this 5 test match is a prep for next years Ashes for Aussies. This shows Brits have still their head buried in sand.

As far as Pakistanis are concerned, they have no stake in it but just the old habbit to oppose anything Indian and jealousy to see them grow over fair skinned (gora) teams.

#Facts
#TruthBombs

:boycott
 
Peole are still hung up on "history". Landscape has changed massively in the last 30 years. India vs pakistan rivalry massively diminished. Apart from trolling purpose as a fan i don't see that rivalry as big as Pakistan players are acting like fanboys of Indian players and you don't see the edge anymore.
 
Its interesting how India wants a rivalry with any country that whoops it in the head to head Australia and Pak both have a superior head to head vs india so India thinks there is a rivalry there. Bhai pehlay barabar tou aao.
 
The way Rajdeep sees it -

People who considers BGT is bigger series - Indians and Aussies

People who considers Ashes is bigger series - Brits and Pakistanis

How I came to that conclusion?

Well, Ponting himself said move over Eng, it is India who is our biggest rival.

Fox Sports is doing Hindi commentary and CA added an extra test this time show how highly they rate it.

Pat Cummins interview in Fox where he said this is the only trophy missing from his and his teams cabinet and they are desperate to win this series.

On the other hand, Micahel Vaughan was saying (read trolling) that this 5 test match is a prep for next years Ashes for Aussies. This shows Brits have still their head buried in sand.

As far as Pakistanis are concerned, they have no stake in it but just the old habbit to oppose anything Indian and jealousy to see them grow over fair skinned (gora) teams.

#Facts
#TruthBombs

:boycott

One of the best thing about Aussie fans they appreciate great rivals. They don't have to be English. India has been the greatest touring rival apart from SA for a brief period in the last 3 decades.
 
English fans always considered Ashes as the pinnacle. That is why they were such a poor white ball side and didnt win any world cup for so long as their focus was only on Ashes.

Australia historically though considered Ashes important but was not obsessed with it like Brits. They had great rivalry with West Indies in the late 80s and with India since 2001. They also cared a lot about ODI world cups and hence won 3 back to back trophies.
 
Having said that, India vs Pakistan would have been a great rivalry as well had we continued bilateral cricket. Not as elite as BGT but could have been our second biggest rivalry.
 
Peole are still hung up on "history". Landscape has changed massively in the last 30 years. India vs pakistan rivalry massively diminished. Apart from trolling purpose as a fan i don't see that rivalry as big as Pakistan players are acting like fanboys of Indian players and you don't see the edge anymore.

Yet Indian fans still need to come on Pakistan boards to tell everyone how big their rivalry is with former colonials. Don't pretend it is for trolling purposes either, if the rivalry wasn't there, why would you bother?
 
Yet Indian fans still need to come on Pakistan boards to tell everyone how big their rivalry is with former colonials. Don't pretend it is for trolling purposes either, if the rivalry wasn't there, why would you bother?
Your own players don't think that way lol They just act like teen age fan boys of Kohli.
 
English fans always considered Ashes as the pinnacle. That is why they were such a poor white ball side and didnt win any world cup for so long as their focus was only on Ashes.

Australia historically though considered Ashes important but was not obsessed with it like Brits. They had great rivalry with West Indies in the late 80s and with India since 2001. They also cared a lot about ODI world cups and hence won 3 back to back trophies.

All teams want to beat the best. England were desperate to beat the Windies back in the 80s and 90s because they were seen as the GOAT. That is competitive nature, not rivalry.
 
Yes that has been reduced to friendly banter these days, they have grown beyond the historical animosity. But that is what created the legacy, and for those two countries it is still what gives it relevance. Otherwise why even call it the Ashes?
There was never any animosity. But always banter. Aussies never hated the poms. They literally worship them in real life.

But yes the oldest derby. So yea. It has much more significant legacy than a newbie derby like BGT.
 
All teams want to beat the best. England were desperate to beat the Windies back in the 80s and 90s because they were seen as the GOAT. That is competitive nature, not rivalry.
Rivalry doesn't need history. It can start any time. SL vs BD rivalry started from snake dance, timed out dismissal. 33 years back Eden Gardens test happened. That is over 3 decades. That is 1/3 of a century. That is long enough. Then umpiring controversy, toss controversy added more spice to it. Then KOhli's confrontation with Mitch johnson, smith. England had none of that. they were like meek kittens against Mitchell Johnson. If you strictly tlak about onfield rivalry in Australia England is not even in the same planet of India in the last 30 years.
 

Legend’s stunning proof this summer could be ‘bigger than the Ashes’ amid Kohli warning​


A quarter century after debuting against India in the Boxing Day Test, Brett Lee believes the Border-Gavaskar Trophy now rivals the Ashes as Australia’s most important series.


The champion bowler, who became the first Australian since Dennis Lillee to take five wickets in an innings on debut in a stunning effort at the MCG, argues a case can be made to say it is bigger than the clashes against England given the focus on the series.


“I would say it is definitely right up there. As a young kid, for me, it was all about the Ashes. To wear the ‘Baggy Green’ and to have the chance to play against England was where it was,” he said.

“Whereas now, the Border-Gavaskar Trophy, you think about the viewership – there are 1.5 billion people in India who all love cricket – and there are a million people of south-Asian heritage here in Australia. And they all love cricket, so it is definitely right up there, if not even bigger.”

Cricket Australia chief executive Nick Hockley, who spoke at the Fox Cricket and Kayo Sports Summer of Cricket launch in Melbourne on Tuesday, is predicting the series beginning on Friday in Perth will sit among the most watched of all-time.

“I think this is going to be the most watched series, certainly on TV, but I think the same goes in terms of people at the ground,” he said.

“We have got to remember it’s the first time in over 30 years that we’ve played five Test matches against India, which is great because it means all the big cities, everyone’s going to be able to come along.


“Ticket sales are up 150 per cent on this time the last time we were able to open the gates, so it’s going to be huge.”

Lee believes India’s famous triumph in the second Test in Kolkata in 2001, which is being profiled on foxsports.com.au and on Fox Cricket ahead of the series opener, set the tone for what has become a fascinating rivalry.

“I have been going to India for 30 years now and just the way it has changed, I pinpoint it to when VVS Laxman and Dravid batted for the whole day, and that really turned the tide for (India), I think,” he said.


“They believed that they could not only match Australia but beat Australia as well. Then that belief – obviously the superstar foundation laid by the likes of Sachin Tendulkar, (Rahul) Dravid and (VVS) Laxman and now the (Virat) Kohli’s of the day.”

The spotlight is on Kohli, who has performed brilliantly against Australia but has dipped in form over the past couple of seasons. But Lee has no doubt the champion will fire.


He said it would be a mistake to offer Kohli any additional motivation to succeed as India seek to continue their decade-long hold on the Border Gavaskar Trophy.

“There has been a lot of speculation and conjecture around Kohli’s form and I can promise you that when he gets out here, he will be raring to go, because he is a superstar,” he said.

“It is an old cliche where you don’t want to try to play against the name. You try to treat him, with all due respect, as (another) batsman. And it was the same when I was bowling against Sachin Tendulkar. You can get overawed by the stature of the guy and the history and what he has achieved, but the thing with Kohli is that he loves to get into a scrap. And I mean that in a nice way. He loves to get himself up for the competition.

“I think the captains I played under – Ricky Ponting and Steve Waugh – were very, very similar, so from a bowling point of view, you don’t want to fire these guys up. You want to stay in your lane and try to get them out early.

“I have been on the receiving end many, many times of a Sachin Tendulkar hundred, or a Kohli hundred, so you have to pitch the ball up and get them to nick it off early. I would not be chirping him.”

Lee is hopeful the series is alive come the final Test in Sydney but said the first two matches of the series in Perth and Adelaide will provide a proper indication as to what will unfold.

“I think it is going to be nice and close,” he said.

“I would love, from a cricket point of view and from a fan point of view, to get to Sydney and hopefully look at it being maybe 2-all in Sydney and going down to the last session.

“But in all honesty, I think it comes down to the first two Tests. The first session will really determine how Australia are going to play and what their intent is and how India will come out and go on these nice, fast, bouncy wickets.”
Yea sure Brett. Stop preaching the choir lmao. This guy man. Would probably be naked in front of camera if he could to be a india still. Just for views lmao.


Young Aussies are like dying to play vs india in bgt. That's their dream lol.

Australians first sport is afl or rugby league. Then cricket football swimming etc. Cricket costs too much for the average person. Way cheaper to play league or afl or football.

South africans though yes it's their second favourite sport. For Aussies it's third.

Aussies also play hockey and a couple of others they are decent at.
 
There was never any animosity. But always banter. Aussies never hated the poms. They literally worship them in real life.

But yes the oldest derby. So yea. It has much more significant legacy than a newbie derby like BGT.
BGT is not newbie anymore. It is 38 years old.
 
BGT is not newbie anymore. It is 38 years old.
Still way too new compared to Ashes. 120 year legacy.
.besides in Australia, it's like the second home for Indians. Too many Indians here. There is no real animosity here either.

Bitter rivalry is more in club afl sport.

Epl in football that's where you see real rivalry. Or serie a. In the derbies. Or el classico
 
All teams want to beat the best. England were desperate to beat the Windies back in the 80s and 90s because they were seen as the GOAT. That is competitive nature, not rivalry.

Nah...for England cricket only meant Ashes. This has ofcourse changed now as they have invested a lot in white ball cricket but even until a decade ago it was only Ashes for them. This is not only true for cricket though, Brits are typically very obsessed with tradition and blindly follows them in all sports. Take Rugby, racing etc. Only football was commercialized since 90s. Take MCC for example, members still dress like how they used to during WG Grace's time..LOL.

Australia on the other hand is very practical when it comes to sports. They absolutely considers Ashes very important series but it is never be all and end all for them. Watch the Amazon documentary called 'The test' where they show dressing room of Australian team and many players were laughing at how formal and obsessed Lords cricket ground is. Some even use Shakesperian English to this date.

😂
 
Nah...for England cricket only meant Ashes. This has ofcourse changed now as they have invested a lot in white ball cricket but even until a decade ago it was only Ashes for them. This is not only true for cricket though, Brits are typically very obsessed with tradition and blindly follows them in all sports. Take Rugby, racing etc. Only football was commercialized since 90s. Take MCC for example, members still dress like how they used to during WG Grace's time..LOL.

Australia on the other hand is very practical when it comes to sports. They absolutely considers Ashes very important series but it is never be all and end all for them. Watch the Amazon documentary called 'The test' where they show dressing room of Australian team and many players were laughing at how formal and obsessed Lords cricket ground is. Some even use Shakesperian English to this date.

😂
I shared an article by a hardcore ENglish fan saying BGT > Ashes . I can take the bias of pak fan with a grain of salt as we know the reason as it means we dilute the India vs pak rivalry
 
This debate is often seen in football and other sports where you'll have a rivalry between two teams who are direct competitors for honours, and a legacy rivalry borne out of history or geography. Whatever floats your boat as far as I'm concerned.

If you're interested in the history of AUS-IND though - here's a great BBC article on India's first ever tour of Australia and the insane buildup to the series. Fazal Mahmood was named in an All India squad announced pre-Partition and even attended the tour training camp. If you read Osman Samiuddin's The Unquiet Ones, it was his dream to bowl at Don Bradman.

Obviously that never happened. Some players barely escaped that summer with their life.


India's forthcoming cricket tour of Australia continues a historic rivalry that has evolved since 1947-48. This fierce competition is now as keenly awaited as the Ashes. But the inaugural tour unfolded against the harrowing backdrop of India's independence and partition, with cricketers confronting turmoil and communal strife at home, as they prepared to face Australia’s legendary Donald Bradman and his “Invincibles".

In 1947, as India prepared for its first cricket tour of Australia, the nation was in the midst of unprecedented upheaval.

Independence had come with the painful partition that created Pakistan, sparking one of history's largest and bloodiest migrations. Amidst this chaos and as millions crossed borders, religious violence spread with Hindus and Sikhs on one side, and Muslims on the other. India's 16-member cricket squad - selected months earlier - also had to deal with both personal and national turmoil as they readied themselves for a landmark series.

Anthony De Mello, external, the president of Board of Control for Cricket in India, announced the team with a backdrop of a map of undivided India, proclaiming that the team would represent all of India.

Until then, the Indian cricket team – known as "All India" – had only toured three times for official Test matches to England between 1932 and 1946, losing the series on every occasion.

But in 1946 future Australian captain Lindsay Hassett, external brought an Australian Services team to India to celebrate the Allies’ victory in World War Two. India won the unofficial series of three matches 1-0 and Hassett reported back to the Australian cricket authorities that the Indians were worthy of an official Test series.

Excitement and anticipation ran high in Indian cricket circles as the team was expected to face the mighty Australians, led by legendary batsman Donald Bradman. His team was later dubbed "Bradman's Invincibles" after returning undefeated from England in 1948.

De Mello’s India squad was led by ace opening batsman Vijay Merchant, with his reliable partner Mushtaq Ali serving as deputy.

Both had been exceptional on the English tours of 1936 and 1946, cementing their leadership roles. The squad also boasted elegant batter Rusi Modi and promising debutant fast bowler Fazal Mahmood, external, adding a dynamic mix of experience and fresh talent.

But both Merchant and Modi withdrew from the tour on medical grounds. Ali also withdrew following the death of his elder brother, leaving him with family responsibilities.

As a result, Lala Amarnath, external was announced as the new captain and Vijay Hazare, external his deputy.

However, the violence that erupted following partition nearly prevented Amarnath from reaching Australia. According to a 2004 biography by his son Rajender Amarnath, Lala Amarnath narrowly escaped a sectarian mob in Patiala in Indian Punjab. His home in Lahore, now in Pakistan, along with its priceless artefacts, was lost forever.

He also encountered danger during a train journey to Delhi.

At a station in Indian Punjab, a police official recognised Amarnath and gave him a kada - a steel bangle worn by Sikhs and many Hindus as a religious symbol. Later, a mob at the station spared the cricketer because of the kada - it probably led them to believe he shared their faith.

On the other side of the religious divide, pace bowler Mahmood found himself facing a deadly mob on a train.

The team had scheduled two weeks of training in Pune (then Poona) from 15 August - though it was not known then, that was the day India was partitioned.

Despite restrictions, Mahmood reached Poona for the training camp. Afterwards, he travelled to Bombay (now Mumbai) en route to Lahore. He writes in his 2003 autobiography that on the train, two men threatened him, but former Indian captain CK Nayudu intervened, bat in hand, and warned them off.

Once he reached curfew-bound Lahore, Mahmood was horrified by the bloodshed he witnessed there and decided to stay back in Pakistan and not tour Australia. He later became part of the Pakistani cricket team and made his Test debut in 1952-53 against India.

Two other members of India’s squad for the Australia tour – Gul Mohammad and Amir Elahi – also later moved to Pakistan and played against India in the 1952-53 series.

Despite these setbacks, India’s tour went ahead, though a weakened India faced Australia without four of its leading players and lost the series 4-0.

The two countries now play each other almost every two years. The miracle, however, is that the inaugural tour of 1947-48 happened at all, given the tumult at home.
 
Ashes and Bharat vs Pakistan rivalries have a lot of history and politics behind them hence on those lines no other series will come anywhere near.

Objectively speaking Ashes hasn’t always delivered the best competitive cricket however due to England’s tendency of folding completely on tough tours.

I always felt not only BGT but South-Africa vs England and Australia vs South Africa have delivered better cricket quality wise on a consistent basis than Ashes. I mean except once, England has been smashed in Australia on every tour down under. How does that make for a great rivalry.

Border-Gavaskar series has been hands down by far the best rivalry in test cricket for the last two and a half decades for the simple fact that both nations have been competitive on each other’s soil.

Ashes historically speaking and even today remains the biggest test series in the world but England have had way too many flop tours of Australia compared to Bharat.
 
Ashes has no comparisons. It's what real cricket fans have affiliations with.

To be honest india v Pakistan has never wetted my appetite.
 
So wait, a series where an indian team tries to survive playing on a bouncy wicket and give pat on the backs each time they are able to survive a day of cricket, is being considered better than the Ashes?

Border-gaskar is like the mohalla tournamnets we used to have
 
So wait, a series where an indian team tries to survive playing on a bouncy wicket and give pat on the backs each time they are able to survive a day of cricket, is being considered better than the Ashes?

Border-gaskar is like the mohalla tournamnets we used to have
We are not talking about a team who are yet to drawn a test match in Australia since 1995.

We are talking about A team who has won the series after 36 all out which some team can't even think in own dreams

a gully mohalla series is hype by whole world unlike minnows cricketing nations fans. :kp
 
So wait, a series where an indian team tries to survive playing on a bouncy wicket and give pat on the backs each time they are able to survive a day of cricket, is being considered better than the Ashes?

Border-gaskar is like the mohalla tournamnets we used to have

India won last 4 BGTs. Looks like a failed attempt from you. Try again.
 
I don't think either Indians or Pakistans can definitively say what is bigger.

The only ones who can judge are the Aussies as they are the participants in both.

Based on recent comments, they seem to be arguing that it's as big as the Ashes, then so be it.

As a fan I have interest in both of them
 
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