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Who is the best Test opening batsman of all time?

Romali_rotti said:
Yeah man its no joke not having to face your bowlers, struggle when you come up against the real deal bowlers like Mcgrath etc but feast on mainly the mediocre. lol Do you even know who Vaskar is ? :)) Graeme Smith he says :)))
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Gavaskar never faced the full Windies attack either, had to play 2nd string attack most his life. Never played a single match in the savanna too.
Not to mention he averages 40 in wins which is embarrassing for the best player in his team.
I'll have Smith all day long, you can have your Gavaskar.
 
Gilly said:
In the 12 innings that Smith has played when Glen McGrath has bowled Smith averages 23.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...er_involve=2101;template=results;type=batting

A match winner lol,
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Well, In another thread , I looked up bowlers and batsmen records against great Aus team. Not many bowlers and batsmen stood up against that team so we shouldn't single out Smith for that. Likes of Wasim, Waqar & Kallis were ordinary against them. I am not talking about matches when McGrath or Warne played. Simply the performance against Aus team during 1995 to 2006
 
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soso_killer said:
Gavaskar never faced the full Windies attack either, had to play 2nd string attack most his life. Never played a single match in the savanna too.
Not to mention he averages 40 in wins which is embarrassing for the best player in his team.
I'll have Smith all day long, you can have your Gavaskar.
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Actually no one except Indians and English batsmen faced full windies attack either.

Most of the teams in the world faced windies attack with 1-2 or 3 at max windies ATG fast bowlers at max.

WI pace quartet played 6 matches together and Gavaskar faced them in 4 of those. 2 matches were played against England.

It's a myth being propagated by some bloggers that somehow Gavaskar skipped facing best WI attack most of the time.

Not to mention only 3 players in the world have scored centuries against FULL WI attack and those players are - Gavaskar, Kapil Dev and Amarnath.
 
soso_killer said:
Gavaskar never faced the full Windies attack either, had to play 2nd string attack most his life. Never played a single match in the savanna too.
Not to mention he averages 40 in wins which is embarrassing for the best player in his team.
I'll have Smith all day long, you can have your Gavaskar.
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There's an Indian author who wrote about that, in the first pic how Gavaskar did against the "world class" WI (namely not before/without/after/... some/all/.. them, or the Packer-hit weaker sides) and how he did in WI

y2kz.png

...
55u5.png


Again, the absence of Gavaskar may surprise many – since the Caribbean islands have gone down in history as the happy hunting grounds of the legend. But, the master scored just 308 runs at 30.80 on those pitches during the heydays of Windies dominance, with one solitary hundred – the century coming in an inconsequential Georgetown Test, largely washed out by rain.
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http://www.cricketcountry.com/crick...against-the-dreaded-West-Indies-pacemen/19776
 
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akheR said:
There's an Indian author who wrote about that, in the first pic how Gavaskar did against the "world class" WI (namely not before/without/after/... some/all/.. them, or the Packer-hit weaker sides) and how he did in WI



http://www.cricketcountry.com/crick...against-the-dreaded-West-Indies-pacemen/19776
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In matches involving all 3- Holding, Marshall and Roberts

7 matches - 496 runs at 49.6

Only Amarnath scored more runs.

Read my post about all 4 playing together.

None of those non-Indians and non-English players in the list faced quartet in their career.
 
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AlizeeFan said:
In matches involving all 3- Holding, Marshall and Roberts

7 matches - 496 runs at 49.6

Only Amarnath scored more runs.

Read my post about all 4 playing together.

None of those non-Indians and non-English players in the list faced quartet in their career. .
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In WI

5 matches - 240 runs at 30, with a HS of 147 not out (score the author referred to.)

But he probably used the statistics well, because in some matches Roberts wasn't playing whereas Garner was (and you can check Sunny's average) and it becomes complicate to individually change bowlers combinations and have an objective picture... so I'll go with the statistician.
 
akheR said:
In WI

5 matches - 240 runs at 30, with a HS of 147 not out (score the author referred to.)

But he probably used the statistics well, because in some matches Roberts wasn't playing whereas Garner was (and you can check Sunny's average) and it becomes complicate to individually change bowlers combinations and have an objective picture... so I'll go with the statistician.
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Which 5 matches are these? Does this include 4 matches in which all 4 were playing and only Amarnath did better than him?
 
If the prize was for biggest gap left between bat and pad, or perhaps least competent top order batsman at playing orthodox swing, Gilly's mate Matty might win then. But not in an actual best opener competition.
 
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What about Saeed Anwar has a test batting avg of around 45.
 
But you were happy to convert it into Smith vs Australia? You cant have your cake and it too buddy, doesnt work like that
 
soso_killer said:
But you were happy to convert it into Smith vs Australia? You cant have your cake and it too buddy, doesnt work like that
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'Buddy'

I never said anything about Smith's match winning ability vs Australia, I only compared the best bowlers from Aus he faced and how he fared against them as I did with Vaskar during his time.... So currently I am having my cake and eating it too :akhtar
 
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one opposition cant decide the faith of a player otherwise everyones credibility as a cricketer would be in question.
Smith has played match and series winning knocks.
 
I am almost certain Barry Richards would have been the best opening batsman of all if he had a full career.I will always remember his effortless centuries that won games in Kerry Packer world series cricket.Arguably no batsmen was ever as perfect as Bary Richards who could slaughter a cricket ball with the impact of an executioner but still combined with the precision of a technician.Bary would have won more games than Hobbs,Hutton or Gavaskar.

To me as a match-winner Virendra Sehwag would come 2nd to Barry amongst openers.In pure test cricket Gavaskar would rate the best opening batsmen of all time with his phenomenal record against great bowling.No batsmen was more prolific in the best ever era of pace bowling of the 1970's and 1980's.Gavaskar could well be the 2nd best test batsman ever to Bradman.Even Bradman may not have tackled great bolwing in the manner of Gavaskar.Gavaskar's farewell innings of 96 on a broken wicket at Bangalore against Pakistan is the best innings I have ever seen on a bad wicket.

Remember Gary Sobers calling Gavaskar the best batsmen he ever played against or has ever seen,which includes Tendulkar and Viv and Barry Richards.Morally there is hardly anything between Hobbs ,Hitton Gavaskar and Barry .
 
The opening batsman who played the great West Indian attack best of all was Graham Gooch.His 1981 efforts in West Indies and his 154 n.o at Leeds in 1991 are a testimony to this.However Gooch was not always at ease against the moving ball and his career lacked consistency.He had a tendency to be trapped leg-before against swing bowlers like Terry Alderman and Kapil Dev.

As a match-winner Gordon Greenidge was the best batsman after Barry Richards in his era.To bat for your life Hanif Mohammad and Geoff Boycott were the champion opening batsmen.No batsmen were ever harder to dismiss.
 
soso_killer said:
Hence my question stands how many series did Gavaskar win for his country?
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Your question needs a new thread, the OP asked who the best opening bat was and in all honesty Smith cant even tie Vaskar's show lace. Also in regards to this match winner theory; Smith predominately played on the second best side since he made his debut sure contributed to him winning a few games unlike Vaskar who played in a side that had only one quality bowler by the name of Kapil Dev.. Its not as simple as you make it..
 
Now you are making excuses. Smith scores a hundred on a difficult pitch, bad lights side screen issues and makes a brilliant 154 when SA were 90 odd for 5. Thats series set and match (2-1). Also led a 400 run chase. I remember SA being bowled out under a 100, we bowled Australia out under 50. But they still set a tricky 200+ target. Smith scored a hundred well over 80. How many match defining innings has Gavaskar played? No excuses!
 
By the way no player has scored more runs in 4th innings wins or hundreds than Smith. An out and out match winner. Not fit enough to lace Gavaskar boots? You must be joking
 
At the end of the day the sole purpose of a match is to be won.
Every player in any sport walks into a match with aspirations of winning it. Then why would i select an inferior match winner (not that Gavaskar was a match winner)?
 
Gavaskar is overrated, he got to play in India, the home of flat tracks.
 
soso_killer said:
. Not fit enough to lace Gavaskar boots?
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Damn straight he is not....... With the team and bowling resources Smith had at his dismissal and the majority mediocre attacks he would've faced to score those runs, Yeap I am more convinced than previously Smith isn't good enuff to tie Sunny's lace...
 
Haroon786 said:
Gavaskar is overrated, he got to play in India, the home of flat tracks.
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@Haroon

Remember Gavaskar scored 221 out of a total of 429-8 in 1979 at the Oval-arguably the best test match innings ever played in England since the war that almost enabled India to achieve a record 4th -innings chase.Never forget his 220 at Port of Spain in 1970-71 and his back- to back hundreds at Trinidad in 1975-76 that almost won both the games.He also scored 3 centuries in 3 successive test matches down under in 1977-78.Gavaskar was at his best against the likes of Andy Roberts,Imran Khan and Ian Botham.

I agree at times he got into trouble on bouncy tracks and was not as good a match-winner as Barry Richards but Gavaskar's tenacity was amazing.Remember how high even Viv Richards ,Hanif Mohammad,Imran Khan and Andy Roberts rate him or even Sir Garfield Sobers.Both Imran and Wasim rate him the most compact batsmen they have ever bowled to and even some like Saed Anwar rate him better than Tendulkar.

Even Bradman would not have played as well as waht Gavaskar did in his final tset innings at Bangalore.No batsmen ever posessed more concentration.
 
Gavaskar's record against WI is not as legendary as it is hyped up to be.. most of his innings weren't against the complete pack.If you talk about facing the main bowlers like Marshall , Garner , Holding I think Allan Border has a better record compared to Sunny.
 
so i think for the top slot its b/w these 4

Hobbs, Barry Richards, Gavasker , Hutton

after this tier you have likes of Smith, Boycott, Greenidge, Hanif,Sehwag, Anwar etc.
 
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Harsh Thakor said:
@Haroon

Remember Gavaskar scored 221 out of a total of 429-8 in 1979 at the Oval-arguably the best test match innings ever played in England since the war that almost enabled India to achieve a record 4th -innings chase.Never forget his 220 at Port of Spain in 1970-71 and his back- to back hundreds at Trinidad in 1975-76 that almost won both the games.He also scored 3 centuries in 3 successive test matches down under in 1977-78.Gavaskar was at his best against the likes of Andy Roberts,Imran Khan and Ian Botham.

I agree at times he got into trouble on bouncy tracks and was not as good a match-winner as Barry Richards but Gavaskar's tenacity was amazing.Remember how high even Viv Richards ,Hanif Mohammad,Imran Khan and Andy Roberts rate him or even Sir Garfield Sobers.Both Imran and Wasim rate him the most compact batsmen they have ever bowled to and even some like Saed Anwar rate him better than Tendulkar.

Even Bradman would not have played as well as waht Gavaskar did in his final tset innings at Bangalore.No batsmen ever posessed more concentration.
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But every pro has his performances, to say that he was phenomenal sometimes is true of almost all international cricketers, even Afridi is phenomenal at times :misbah
 
Romali_rotti said:
Damn straight he is not....... With the team and bowling resources Smith had at his dismissal and the majority mediocre attacks he would've faced to score those runs, Yeap I am more convinced than previously Smith isn't good enuff to tie Sunny's lace...
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only one player is not fit enough to lace the others boots. One has over a thousand runs in 4th inning chases and has not even played the same amount of matches as Gavaskar over 4 hundreds chasing some tough targets. Give me a call should Sunny ever chase 400 though, thanks!
Smith leads from the front with the burden of captaincy. But hey dont forget to give me that call
 
Re: Who is the best Test opening Batsman of all time?

soso_killer said:
only one player is not fit enough to lace the others boots. One has over a thousand runs in 4th inning chases and has not even played the same amount of matches as Gavaskar over 4 hundreds chasing some tough targets. Give me a call should Sunny ever chase 400 though, thanks!
Smith leads from the front with the burden of captaincy. But hey dont forget to give me that call
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Correct me if i am wrong but Gavaskar was involved in the chase 400 runs vs WI in WI i 1970s.

Give me a call when Barry Richards scores 10000 test runs.or Smith avgs 40 plus in most Test nations.
 
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Re: Who is the best Test opening Batsman of all time?

amax said:
so i think for the top slot its b/w these 4

Hobbs, Barry Richards, Gavasker , Hutton

after this tier you have likes of Smith, Boycott, Greenidge, Hanif,Sehwag, Anwar etc.
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Hobbs Hutton Gavaskar will compete for top 3 slots.But its hard to compare someone with these greats who has played a total of 4 tests.No matter how he did in domestic cricket or some unsactioned league the exact running of which is not known.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Correct me if i am wrong but Gavaskar was involved in the chase 400 runs vs WI in WI i 1970s.

Give me a call when Barry Richards scores 10000 test runs.or Smith avgs 40 plus in most Test nations.
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Ah.. Graeme Smith averages 40+ in every test nation in games he has played for SA bar India. Averages 55 away. Thanx.
 
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RickyG said:
Barry Richards. Such a shame he didn't play much. Second Gavaskar. I don't know enough about Hutton, Hobbs or Sutcliffe but great numbers.
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I don't think that it would be fair to rate Barry Richards ahead of Gavaskar, for the same reason we don't rate Bond ahead of Steyn. One needs to establish themselves in test matches, and playing very few matches, even through no fault of their own, does not allow them to do that.

Gavaskar was the best for me. My opening partnership would be Gavaskar + Smith, but I'm not sure how well they would support each other.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Says Smith avgs 40 plus vs all countries except India.Dont know what the avg of 37 vs AuS(was lower during Mcwarne era) and 35 vs SL say.

Doesnt even avg 50 overall.
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Read that post again and
Here you go:
In Australia 43
in Bangladesh 67
in England 67
in India 35
in New Zealand 57
in Pakistan 44
(in SA 43)
in Lanka 44
in U.A.E 70
in Windies 73
(in Asia 49)

combine that with his match winning performances and that should quench your thirst
 
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soso_killer said:
Read that post again and
Here you go:
In Australia 43
in Bangladesh 67
in England 67
in India 35
in New Zealand 57
in Pakistan 44
(in SA 43)
in Lanka 44
in U.A.E 70
in Windies 73
(in Asia 49)

combine that with his match winning performances and that should quench your thirst
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In South Africa, Smith's home these are his averages

V Australia 34
V India 33
V New Xed 27
V Pak 36
V Sri Lanka 29

He has been owned in by everyone in South Africa.
 
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I kind of agree with soso_killer on this one, for I too believe Biffo to be immense, but his unrelenting fanboyism of all things Saffa is certainly tangible.
 
James said:
I kind of agree with soso_killer on this one, for I too believe Biffo to be immense, but his unrelenting fanboyism of all things Saffa is certainly tangible.
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I don't agree with his approach, but we do need fans like him IMO. Many of our players have been underrated because we don't have as many vocal fans as other countries do. And he does raise some good points through the fanboyism...
 
James said:
What a great player Gooch was! Seems underrated these days.
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Isn't he still hailed as the best English bat (with perhaps KP either slight ahead/behind, depending on the sensibilities) ?
 
akheR said:
Isn't he still hailed as the best English bat (with perhaps KP either slight ahead/behind, depending on the sensibilities) ?
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Our highest run scorer ever.

As an actual batsman, surely in our top five.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Hobbs Hutton Gavaskar will compete for top 3 slots.But its hard to compare someone with these greats who has played a total of 4 tests.No matter how he did in domestic cricket or some unsactioned league the exact running of which is not known.
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I got your point ,but Barry Richards is in a way a very rare exception, how many domestic performers are so unanimously considered by experts/peers as one of the greatest batsman in game's history. BTW competition in county circuit was very high in 70s, 80s, 90s, during that era it played a big role in grooming many overseas greats.
 
Harsh Thakor said:
@Haroon

Remember Gavaskar scored 221 out of a total of 429-8 in 1979 at the Oval-arguably the best test match innings ever played in England since the war that almost enabled India to achieve a record 4th -innings chase.Never forget his 220 at Port of Spain in 1970-71 and his back- to back hundreds at Trinidad in 1975-76 that almost won both the games.He also scored 3 centuries in 3 successive test matches down under in 1977-78.Gavaskar was at his best against the likes of Andy Roberts,Imran Khan and Ian Botham.

I agree at times he got into trouble on bouncy tracks and was not as good a match-winner as Barry Richards but Gavaskar's tenacity was amazing.Remember how high even Viv Richards ,Hanif Mohammad,Imran Khan and Andy Roberts rate him or even Sir Garfield Sobers.Both Imran and Wasim rate him the most compact batsmen they have ever bowled to and even some like Saed Anwar rate him better than Tendulkar.

Even Bradman would not have played as well as waht Gavaskar did in his final tset innings at Bangalore.No batsmen ever posessed more concentration.
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Q1 to Mr. Feku - Barry only played 4 tests, so i am assuming you are talking about his match winning skills in first class. He played 339 first class games, please tell us how many matches he won in those 339. I am curious to know how you got match stats of these first class matches.

Q2 to Mr. Feku - When did Saeed Anwar say that Gavaskar was better than SRT? Not that, Anwar's view would have much meaning, but still please post the link when Anwar said that.
 
Jo_Don said:
I don't agree with his approach, but we do need fans like him IMO. Many of our players have been underrated because we don't have as many vocal fans as other countries do. And he does raise some good points through the fanboyism...
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I don't blame ya devotion.There's something about Graeme I have always liked , I can't put a finger on it .. even though Gilly has managed to punch holes in his record , he's been involved in some epic run chases.
 
amax said:
I got your point ,but Barry Richards is in a way a very rare exception, how many domestic performers are so unanimously considered by experts/peers as one of the greatest batsman in game's history. BTW competition in county circuit was very high in 70s, 80s, 90s, during that era it played a big role in grooming many overseas greats.
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County was still county.While most players had the extra motivation to do better and take the game one level up in test matches,Barry Richards had no such motivation and hence was very good in county circuit.But still his 1st class avg was 54.74 not that he was head and shoulders above a Gavaskar/Richards/Chapell etc.
 
Barry Richards wasnt even the best bat of his own team.That was the great Graeme Pollock.
 
Gilly said:
In South Africa, Smith's home these are his averages

V Australia 34
V India 33
V New Xed 27
V Pak 36
V Sri Lanka 29

He has been owned in by everyone in South Africa.
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thats ok, batting in SA is pretty tough let alone for an opener. His overall average still amounts to a respectable 43. Plenty of middle order bats average alot less in these conditions.
 
cricketjoshila said:
IPL also has the world's best cricketers.And played in 20 over format.So is IPL champs equal to ICC T20 champs?NO WAY.

WSC or any other anything is not equal TEST CRICKET.
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WSC had mostly international players.

IPL has mostly Indian players.
 
Gavaskar alongwith Smith/ Greenidge. These according to me are the best three openers of test cricket who scored runs on almost all situations & under various conditions consistently throughout their career.
 
Gavaskar..

Other contenders would be Hobbs, Hutton and possibly Barry
 
freelance_cricketer said:
1. Gavaskar

2. Daylight

3. Hobbs, Greenidge, Hutton and all the rest
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This is the best post yet in this thread. Yes, it is Gavaskar and then daylight.

Not only was Gavaskar by far the best opener, he can claim to be one of the best 3 or 4 batsmen ever in the company of Bradman, SRT and Lara.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Who do you think is the best test opening batsman of all time?

1.Sunil Gavaskar
2.Graeme Smith
3.Matthew Hayden
4.Virender Sehwag
5.Gordon Greenidge
6.Desmond Haynes
7.Geoffrey Boycott
8.Len Hutton
9.Jack Hobbs
10.Herbert Sutcliffe
11.Hanif Mohammad
12.Saeed Anwar
13.Alistair Cook
14.Graham Gooch
15.Mark Taylor

SPECIAL MENTION:Barry Richards,As the title suggests that its for Test Batsman and Barry Richards didnt play many tests,but he was very good in domestic cricket.Hence a special mention of him.


These are the top 15 according to me in no particular order.

But for me the best opening batsman combo would be Gavaskar and Hutton.

Who would be yours?
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gavaskar was a flat track bully or he would score outside asia when bowlers of opposite teams would be over the hill or their main bowlers were injured. Gavaskar does not belong there tbh.
I might post a list later
 
Not sure of all time but Gavaskar was the best in last 40 years.
 
Jack Hobbs scored over 60,000 runs (Yes, 60,000), including 199 centuries (Yes, 199) at the FC level. He also averaged 55+ in test matches and is easily the best test opener of all time.

Hutton comes second, Gavasker third. Smith and Greenidge are also up there.
 
pacesensation said:
gavaskar was a flat track bully or he would score outside asia when bowlers of opposite teams would be over the hill or their main bowlers were injured. Gavaskar does not belong there tbh.
I might post a list later
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Averaged 40 everywhere except Lanka where he played 3 matches
 
soso_killer said:
yep, a far superior match winner is Smith and in that regard very few players (if any) are after than him. I'll have Smith all day long. Again averaging 50 away as an opening bat is no joke. There are some overrated cricketers that i wont mention who average less despite batting in the middle order. That says alot about Smith.
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Romali_rotti said:
Yeah man its no joke not having to face your bowlers, struggle when you come up against the real deal bowlers like Mcgrath etc but feast on mainly the mediocre. lol Do you even know who Vaskar is ? :)) Graeme Smith he says :)))
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Gilly said:
In the 12 innings that Smith has played when Glen McGrath has bowled Smith averages 23.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...er_involve=2101;template=results;type=batting

A match winner lol,
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AlizeeFan said:
Actually no one except Indians and English batsmen faced full windies attack either.

Most of the teams in the world faced windies attack with 1-2 or 3 at max windies ATG fast bowlers at max.

WI pace quartet played 6 matches together and Gavaskar faced them in 4 of those. 2 matches were played against England.

It's a myth being propagated by some bloggers that somehow Gavaskar skipped facing best WI attack most of the time.

Not to mention only 3 players in the world have scored centuries against FULL WI attack and those players are - Gavaskar, Kapil Dev and Amarnath.
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Anyone who seriously compares Smith to Gavaskar doesn't really know much about cricket. Gavaskar was by far the best opener ever.
 
Gavaskar is not only best opener but also contender for best batsman ever. Smith will never be considered in same line. Comparing both of them is a joke.
 
Bilal7 said:
Jack Hobbs scored over 60,000 runs (Yes, 60,000), including 199 centuries (Yes, 199) at the FC level. He also averaged 55+ in test matches and is easily the best test opener of all time.

Hutton comes second, Gavasker third. Smith and Greenidge are also up there.
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We are not discussing county cricket bullies here.Else we will be talking about Mark Ramprakash and Graeme Hick.

Hobbs is a hype of english media nothing else.Hutton ofcourse is a fair comparision.
 
Hick and Ramps failed miserably at the highest stage.. Same doesn't apply to Hobbs.
 
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