Who is the greatest Asian cricketer of all-time?

[Buffet]

Sure that is great.

But I have heard tons of expert talks and always the names of Sachin, Ponting, Lara come up and then guys like Kallis, Dravid, etc.

.

That pecking order it correct for batting but as a cricketer, Kallis gets into the top league. I gave you even the cricinfo link where he made it ahead of Ponting/Lara and competing with the likes of Warne/SRT.

Reason is simple. Primary skill of Kallis doesn't put him with the likes of SRT and Warne but when you consider his secondary skill then that surely puts him ahead of the likes of Dravid. People can have different opinions about his combined worth of batting+bowling but it will be wrong to argue that his bowling should be ignored when talking about the 'player' Kallis.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That pecking order it correct for batting but as a cricketer, Kallis gets into the top league. I gave you even the cricinfo link where he made it ahead of Ponting/Lara and competing with the likes of Warne/SRT.

That was one case dude. When did I dismiss it?

Go to ANY place on the Internet and see if any nuetral fan puts Kallis above Sachin, Lara, Ponting when discussing the best cricketers of the last 20 years. Any place. Kallis's value is incredible and none of his peers can match that but STILL that isn't getting him the No 1 spot when discussions like this take place.

If we are going to take all round performance (batting & bowling & captaincy) as a yardstick for judging the best cricketer, then

Ganguly is a better cricketer than Dravid (in all forms of the game).

I am not dismissing Kallis's greatness but just pointing out that we can't simply start give all rounders more points cos they are all rounders and have more impact.

The very fact that Kallis (allrounder) is mentiond along with Sachin (pure batsman) and Warne (pure bowler) and not outright given the No 1 spot validates my argument.

Kallis could be the greatest cricketer of the last 20 years but it is something that is decided after an argument and NOT automatically given to him just cos he is an allrounder. The same holds true for Sachin Vs Imran. You can't simply say Imran was an allrounder and a great captain so he should win it. It doesn't work that way (talking about the general perception here).

In that cricinfo article, the jury picked Sachin cos they believed that when you consider his Environment (batting) as the sample set, his performance is just crazy good. Good enough to beat Kallis's all round performance.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

duplicate post

 

[Random Aussie]

We in Australia consider ourselves a part of Asia you know......

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Sure that is great.

But I have heard tons of expert talks and always the names of Sachin, Ponting, Lara come up and then guys like Kallis, Dravid, etc.

If all round impact is everything, then the first name in everyone's list must be Kallis cos Kallis's impact is twice that of any of the other best cricketers. But that's not the case and there is a reason for that. Even in this forum, Kallis is not the first name in everyone's lips when talking about best cricketers of the last 25 years.

Its the same in Twitter, FB, cricinfo, any nuetral cricket forum, etc.

they always talked like this when they analyzing one specific segment i-e batting

 

[Bilal7]

You realize that Tendulkar has 200 Intl wkts and masses of runs ( 4.5 times as many as Imran BTW ). While Imran made ~7500 runs in his career .... SRT made almost that many just against Aus which was the best team of his times. Heck it takes runs made by 2 players of the caliber of Inzi and YK to make up for a SRT career ... think about the magnitude of that achievement for a moment and you will realize why there is simply no comparison to be made at all.

Please don't be so desperate. Sachin is one of the greatest batsman of all time but he got his 200 wickets simply because of playing 200 test matches and 400 (?) ODIs. Lets not even talk of the average that he got those wickets. He was a part-time bowler and nothing else at any point in his career.

As for his runs, those are some mammoth figures but quality over quantity all day, everyday. Once again, Sachin only got so many runs because he played 200 tests which is more than twice the number Imran played. If we compare them quality wise, Sachin was the best batsman from the subcon while Imran was the best player from the subcon.

There is obviously a comparison which Imran wins hands down since he played more than 80 tests which is enough for anyone to judge how good a player he was.

 

[Buffet]

Kallis could be the greatest cricketer of the last 20 years but it is something that is decided after an argument and NOT automatically given to him just cos he is an allrounder. The same holds true for Sachin Vs Imran. You can't simply say Imran was an allrounder and a great captain so he should win it. It doesn't work that way (talking about the general perception here).

In that cricinfo article, the jury picked Sachin cos they believed that when you consider his Environment (batting) as the sample set, his performance is just crazy good. Good enough to beat Kallis's all round performance.

I never claimed that all rounders are better cricketers by default. It's always about the whole package. I also don't consider IK as a great captain. I consider him a good captain. I already said in my first post in this thread. You could make a case of Murali, IK or SRT and you won't be too wrong. Clearly, I said that after considering their over all worth based on what they contributed for their teams in their entire career.

 

[Bilal7]

If we start taking all round performance (batting & bowling & captaincy) seriously, then surely

Ganguly > Dravid (both Tests and ODIs)

How many people will agree with the above statement?

Ganguly never came close to matching Dravid the batsmen in batting, bowling or captaincy so this cannot be a valid comparison. Imran and Kallis did come close to matching (maybe even matched) Sachin in atleast one field and their competence in other departments puts them higher up, IMO.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Ganguly never came close to matching Dravid the batsmen in batting, bowling or captaincy so this cannot be a valid comparison. Imran and Kallis did come close to matching (maybe even matched) Sachin in atleast one field and their competence in other departments puts them higher up, IMO.

Then why didn't Kallis win the award for the best cricketer of the generation?

The cricinfo article shortlisted 3 players as the best of the generation - Sachin, kallis and Warne.

Sachin was picked. Logically, impact wise Kallis made twice that of Sachin & Warne. But how did he NOT get picked? Cos the jury believed that when you consider Sachin's Environment (batting) as the sample set, his performance is just crazy good. Good enough to beat Kallis's all round performance.

That's why Sachin Vs Imran is something that must be debated before declaring Imran as the winner. One can't do that just because Imran is an amazing allrounder and captain.

I wrote a lot of posts in this thread elaborating my argument.

Here's one of the posts

Let's put it another way:

Imran Khan - ATG Captain (Tests), ATG Captain (ODIs), ATG Bowler (Tests), Good Batsman (Tests), Very Good Bowler (ODIs), Good Batsman (ODIs)

Sachin Tendulkar - GOAT Batsman (Tests), GOAT Batsman (ODIs)

Who is the greatest?

As a package, one must be blind not to pick Imran.

But when it comes to Pure Pure greatness that is defined by skill and mastery of the highest order in your CHOSEN field, I feel its Sachin.

An example - When you look at bowler averages, you say a bowler with 20 average is better than one with 25 average as long as both of them have played a minimum threshold of matches.

If Bowler A averages 20 playing 60 tests and bowler B averages 25 playing 150 tests, you still say Bowler A is better. You may say Bowler B is a greater servant for his country but you would still go with bowler A as being better. Why? Cos you judge both the bowlers by taking the number of matches they played as the Absolute Environment and use it to make your final decision (of course this is assuming they have played matches above a sufficient threshold).

Same way, if you take Sachin's Absolute Environment as Batting and Imran Khan's as Bowling or All Round Performance (you take a pick) - whom do you think is the greatest? I feel its Sachin.

By the way, I am NOT trying to push Sachin's case here. There is a lot of subjectivity involved in this topic so there is no right answer. I am just trying to present a different style of thinking which I feel would help this discussion.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I never claimed that all rounders are better cricketers by default. It's always about the whole package. I also don't consider IK as a great captain. I consider him a good captain. I already said in my first post in this thread. You could make a case of Murali, IK or SRT and you won't be too wrong. Clearly, I said that after considering their over all worth based on what they contributed for their teams in their entire career.

I know bud. You didn't say that.

I was making a point about (Kallis not being put in the Sachin, Lara bracket) in a particular context. The context being its not done very commonly by everyone.

But I get your point. I didn't know about the cricinfo jury thingy.

Actually we both are in the same page. I was just saying a player's greatness after debating and not because one is an allrounder and the other is not.

 

[Bilal7]

^ I never said Kallis was better than Sachin. I'd take Sachin over him but there is a comparison here. Ganguly vs Dravid isn't.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

^ I never said Kallis was better than Sachin. I'd take Sachin over him but there is a comparison here. Ganguly vs Dravid isn't.

Its not about Ganguly Vs Dravid.

That was used to make a point. Its a crime to say Ganguly was better than Dravid.

Sachin Vs Kallis must be debated before a winner is declared (whoever it may be). Kallis doesn't win just cos he had more impact in the game (by virtue of being an allrounder). Cos if we go that way, erroneous results start cropping up in other cases. Like Dwayne Bravo being a better IPL player than Maxwell.

Same goes for Sachin Vs Imran.

 

[Random Aussie]

We in Australia consider ourselves a part of Asia you know......

This must be how we feel at those Asian meetings, standing in a corner talking to the pot plants....

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

This must be how we feel at those Asian meetings, standing in a corner talking to the pot plants....

Hahaha....don't worry Aussie.

Come join us.

Tell that Sachin is not fit to tie the shoelaces of Imran and you will become the centre of attraction in no time.

 

[Bilal7]

Its not about Ganguly Vs Dravid.

That was used to make a point. Its a crime to say Ganguly was better than Dravid.

Sachin Vs Kallis must be debated before a winner is declared (whoever it may be). Kallis doesn't win just cos he had more impact in the game (by virtue of being an allrounder). Cos if we go that way, erroneous results start cropping up in other cases. Like Dwayne Bravo being a better IPL player than Maxwell.

Same goes for Sachin Vs Imran.

Sachin and Kallis is close with Sachin taking it but IMO, Imran wins it comfortably. You can't take a one size fits all apporach with this, it all depends on the quality of the all-rounder in question and Imran was arguably the greatest ever while Sachin was arguably the second greatest batsman ever.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Then why didn't Kallis win the award for the best cricketer of the generation?

The cricinfo article shortlisted 3 players as the best of the generation - Sachin, kallis and Warne.

Sachin was picked. Logically, impact wise Kallis made twice that of Sachin & Warne. But how did he NOT get picked? Cos the jury believed that when you consider Sachin's Environment (batting) as the sample set, his performance is just crazy good. Good enough to beat Kallis's all round performance.

That's why Sachin Vs Imran is something that must be debated before declaring Imran as the winner. One can't do that just because Imran is an amazing allrounder and captain.

I wrote a lot of posts in this thread elaborating my argument.

Here's one of the posts

plz have an eye on the complete Jewry of that Cricinfo award mostly (50 to 60%) are indians, I am not saying that Sachin won bcz of those indians but doubt was always there & the other thing is that cricinfo's own staff is also in that Jewry. Cricinfo is another indian based website so the chances of favoritism was much higher.

 

[Bilal7]

This must be how we feel at those Asian meetings, standing in a corner talking to the pot plants....

Who do you consider the greater player, Adam Gilchrist or Ricky Ponting? Although Punter was a great captain as well so not a good comparison considering the point of discussion.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

plz have an eye on the complete Jewry of that Cricinfo award mostly (50 to 60%) are indians, I am not saying that Sachin won bcz of those indians but doubt was always there & the other thing is that cricinfo's own staff is also in that Jewry. Cricinfo is another indian based website so the chances of favoritism was much higher.

Just because that jury picked Sachin doesn't mean its always has to be Sachin.

My opinions are NOT based on just a jury.

 

[Bilal7]

plz have an eye on the complete Jewry of that Cricinfo award mostly (50 to 60%) are indians, I am not saying that Sachin won bcz of those indians but doubt was always there & the other thing is that cricinfo's own staff is also in that Jewry. Cricinfo is another indian based website so the chances of favoritism was much higher.

Jewry? Its Jury man, I doubt any one of them is Jewish.

 

[tempus123]

If we start taking all round performance (batting & bowling & captaincy) seriously, then surely

Ganguly > Dravid (both Tests and ODIs)

How many people will agree with the above statement?

In ODIs yes, and Ganguly doesn't require anything else apart from his batting to be considered.. though he was a kind of useful medium pacer too.

but in Test matches, even the combined effort of captaincy + bowling + batting will not make Ganguly better than Dravid.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sachin and Kallis is close with Sachin taking it but IMO, Imran wins it comfortably. You can't take a one size fits all apporach with this, it all depends on the quality of the all-rounder in question and Imran was arguably the greatest ever while Sachin was arguably the second greatest batsman ever.

Bud, don't you see a small problem with this argument?

If I use the same logic,

Indian team that was No 1 in tests for 2.5 years was better than Imran Khan's 80's team cos Indian team was ranked No 1 and Imran Khan's team was No 2. What is missed out here is that WI of the 80's were probably the greatest side ever and Imran Khan's team would have been No 1 in a lot of other eras.

So can we just do a comparison of No 1 Vs No 2 and declare India as the better test team.

Same way, Don was an anomaly. So you can't use Sachin's No 2 spot and compare it with Imran's No 1 allround spot.

The whole point of my argument is that its a debatable topic and not an obvious choice.

Sachin was a GOAT in 2 formats. Imran was an ATG in a lot of aspects. Its not a clear cut case as it looks.

That's my point.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

In ODIs yes, and Ganguly doesn't require anything else apart from his batting to be considered.. though he was a kind of useful medium pacer too.

but in Test matches, even the combined effort of captaincy + bowling + batting will not make Ganguly better than Dravid.

I feel Dravid caught up big time after 2000's in ODIs.

Even in ODIs, I felt Dravid was better than Ganguly in batting (when you consider their full careers). Don't have a strong opinion but based on viewing matches, I found Dravid to be overall better.

 

[Bilal7]

Bud, don't you see a small problem with this argument?

If I use the same logic,

Indian team that was No 1 in tests for 2.5 years was better than Imran Khan's 80's team cos Indian team was ranked No 1 and Imran Khan's team was No 2. What is missed out here is that WI of the 80's were probably the greatest side ever and Imran Khan's team would have been No 1 in a lot of other eras.

So can we just do a comparison of No 1 Vs No 2 and declare India as the better test team.

Same way, Don was an anomaly. So you can't use Sachin's No 2 spot and compare it with Imran's No 1 allround spot.

The whole point of my argument is that its a debatable topic and not an obvious choice.

Sachin was a GOAT in 2 formats. Imran was an ATG in a lot of aspects. Its not a clear cut case as it looks.

That's my point.

I wasn't comparing them in that regard. Just stating how great both of them are.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I wasn't comparing them in that regard. Just stating how great both of them are.

Ok then.

Since you said Imran wins it comfortably and made that second statement, I assumed it that way.

 

[tempus123]

I feel Dravid caught up big time after 2000's in ODIs.

Even in ODIs, I felt Dravid was better than Ganguly in batting (when you consider their full careers). Don't have a strong opinion but based on viewing matches, I found Dravid to be overall better.

I think Ganguly was definitely better in ODIs.. his most special innings came before 2002.. he used to power India's innings through at the top with big 140s against good bowling attacks.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think Ganguly was definitely better in ODIs.. his most special innings came before 2002.. he used to power India's innings through at the top with big 140s against good bowling attacks.

Yeah till 2000 odd (maybe till 2002 - 2003), it was not even a competition.

Ganguly was miles better than Dravid. Miles.

I felt after that Dravid improved greatly and Ganguly regressed badly.

Its a hard call for me. But I think I felt overall Dravid was more reliable. But just my opinion.

 

[jeetu]

Pretty much a a 3 way tie between Imran (ATG all rounder) , Sachin (ATG batsman) and Murli (ATG bowler).

 

[Bilal7]

Pretty much a a 3 way tie between Imran (ATG all rounder) , Sachin (ATG batsman) and Murli (ATG bowler).

Imran (ATG bowler + good batsman + great captain). How can you put a pure batsman or pure bowler over someone who does both of those and was was also a very good captain?

 

[tempus123]

Imran (ATG bowler + good batsman + great captain). How can you put a pure batsman or pure bowler over someone who does both of those and was was also a very good captain?

Because Murali did the same with much higher number of wickets.. also he was equally outstanding in ODIs too.

As in the first post, I clarified, I have considered ODI performances also once the threshold of Test greatness is crossed.

 

[jeetu]

All 3 had shortcomings.
Sachin - Bowler
Murli - Batsman
Imran - Longetivity, underachieved in ODI as compared to tests.

 

[samplepiece]

If we start taking all round performance (batting & bowling & captaincy) seriously, then surely

Ganguly > Dravid (both Tests and ODIs)

How many people will agree with the above statement?

Ganguly > Dravid in ODIs

 

[shean1990]

Murali without a doubt

 

[Bullet Drive]

Shahid Afridi

 

[Bilal7]

Because Murali did the same with much higher number of wickets.. also he was equally outstanding in ODIs too.

As in the first post, I clarified, I have considered ODI performances also once the threshold of Test greatness is crossed.

Yeah, that balances it out.

All 3 had shortcomings.
Sachin - Bowler
Murli - Batsman
Imran - Longetivity, underachieved in ODI as compared to tests.

Don't think longevity was a problem. Almost 90 tests are more than enough for a player to prove themselves. Not to mention that fast bowlers can never play the number of matches that batsmen or spinners can.

 

[Buffet]

Imran (ATG bowler + good batsman + great captain). How can you put a pure batsman or pure bowler over someone who does both of those and was was also a very good captain?

Their contributions for their country in their primary skills were not equal. Murali was a gun bowler for far longer( around 100+ tests) and SRT was a gun batsman for far longer( around 150+ tests). IK was a gun bowler for around 35-40 tests. Also, Murali and SRT were guns in their primary skills in ODI for their entire career and IK was not in that league in ODI.

IK's secondary skills puts him in contention with other two here when it comes to how much they contributed as player. Three great players but totally different.. There isn't any convincing answer for who should be tagged as the best in SC based on their contributions as player for their teams.

 

[Bilal7]

Their contributions for their country in their primary skills were not equal. Murali was a gun bowler for far longer( around 100+ tests) and SRT was a gun batsman for far longer( around 150+ tests). IK was a gun bowler for around 35-40 tests. Also, Murali and SRT were guns in their primary skills in ODI for their entire career and IK was not in that league in ODI.

IK's secondary skills puts him in contention with other two here when it comes to how much they contributed as player. Three great players but totally different.. There isn't any convincing answer for who should be tagged as the best in SC based on their contributions as player for their teams.

Imran had the greatest ever peak out of any bowler to have ever held a cricket ball. He was very much up with these two as far as his primary skill is concerned. Longevity is no criteria when comparing a gy whohas the most strenuous job on a cricket field and two guys who have it much, much easier.

 

[Buffet]

Imran had the greatest ever peak out of any bowler to have ever held a cricket ball. He was very much up with these two as far as his primary skill is concerned. Longevity is no criteria when comparing a gy whohas the most strenuous job on a cricket field and two guys who have it much, much easier.

Duplicate reply

 

[Buffet]

Imran had the greatest ever peak out of any bowler to have ever held a cricket ball. He was very much up with these two as far as his primary skill is concerned. Longevity is no criteria when comparing a gy whohas the most strenuous job on a cricket field and two guys who have it much, much easier.

Yes, you can make a case for that but when all said and done IK was a gun bowler for around 35-40 tests and not in the same league in ODIs as other two when it comes to their primary skills. There is hardly any strong case to put 3 of them at the same level when it comes to contributiions with their primary skills.

 

[Bilal7]

Yes, you can make a case for that but when all said and done IK was a gun bowler for around 35-40 tests and not in the same league in ODIs as other two when it comes to their primary skills.

Those 40 odd tests are more than enough and his ODI performances are what put him level with those two and not comfortably ahead as it would have been in a test only discussion.

 

[Buffet]

Those 40 odd tests are more than enough

Sure, it's enough to see the quality of any player but we are not talking about that. We are talking about their contributions across all formats in their primary skills.

 

[Bilal7]

Sure, it's enough to see the quality of any player but we are not talking about that. We are talking about their contributions across all formats in their primary skills.

And Imran made enough contributions in those 40 tests.

 

[IcedEarth]

Best Captain :Imran Khan

Best Batsmen: Sachin Tendulkar

Best Fast bowler: Wasim Akram

Best Spinner: Muttiah Murllitharan

Best Fielder: Rahul Dravid

Best Wicket-keeper: Kumar Sangakara

LMAO. I can name five or more Sri Lankans who were absolute beasts on the field. Mahanama, Dilshan, Upul Chandana, Ruwan Kalpage, Jayasuriya, Dharmasena, Kapugedara, Mubarak, Suraj Randiv, Senanayake, and can add few more if you like.

And I can name five better keepers too. Mahesh Goonathilake, PJ, Moin Khan, Engineer, Kiran More, Rashid Latif are few I can recall on teop of my head.

 

[Random Aussie]

Who do you consider the greater player, Adam Gilchrist or Ricky Ponting? Although Punter was a great captain as well so not a good comparison considering the point of discussion.

Gilly easily. But I think Imran/Tendy/Murali are above Gilly. Warne?

 

[Zohaib Shah]

LMAO. I can name five or more Sri Lankans who were absolute beasts on the field. Mahanama, Dilshan, Upul Chandana, Ruwan Kalpage, Jayasuriya, Dharmasena, Kapugedara, Mubarak, Suraj Randiv, Senanayake, and can add few more if you like.

And I can name five better keepers too. Mahesh Goonathilake, PJ, Moin Khan, Engineer, Kiran More, Rashid Latif are few I can recall on teop of my head.

Well I wasn't so sure of the great keepers or fielders. So I am not surprised.

 

[thivaakar]

"Greatest Cricketers" should be all rounders or Wicket keepers with good records doing their all rounder job. The title isn't "greatest batsmen or bowler"

 

[thivaakar]

LMAO. I can name five or more Sri Lankans who were absolute beasts on the field. Mahanama, Dilshan, Upul Chandana, Ruwan Kalpage, Jayasuriya, Dharmasena, Kapugedara, Mubarak, Suraj Randiv, Senanayake, and can add few more if you like.

And I can name five better keepers too. Mahesh Goonathilake, PJ, Moin Khan, Engineer, Kiran More, Rashid Latif are few I can recall on teop of my head.

Dravid best fielder ? I still think Dilshan is ONE of the best fielders considering his age. Man his 38 and he flies. Yuvraj was gun before but not now. We have to let Kohli, Raina and others age before we can judge.

 

[tempus123]

"Greatest Cricketers" should be all rounders or Wicket keepers with good records doing their all rounder job. The title isn't "greatest batsmen or bowler"

It means any non-allrounder will never be able to make it to great cricketer list.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

"Greatest Cricketers" should be all rounders or Wicket keepers with good records doing their all rounder job. The title isn't "greatest batsmen or bowler"

Then Kapil Dev is a greater cricketer than Murali, Warne, Kumble.

He is also a greater cricketer than Sachin, Lara, Ponting.

Heck, Shakib Al Hasan is a greater cricketer than Virat Kohli.

If that's how we have to judge great crickters, then the answers are way too easy and way too flawed, bud.

 

[tempus123]

Then Kapil Dev is a greater cricketer than Murali, Warne, Kumble.

He is also a greater cricketer than Sachin, Lara, Ponting.

Heck, Shakib Al Hasan is a greater cricketer than Virat Kohli.

If that's how we have to judge great crickters, then the answers are way too easy and way too flawed, bud.

Bradman must be crying in his grave..

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Bradman must be crying in his grave..

Haha...Oh yeah I forgot.

Kallis, Sobers and Imran > Bradman.

Maybe not. Bradman's batting average is the equivalent of a ATG batsman's and ATG bowler's average.

Apart from Don, everyone else is inferior to Kallis, Sobers and Imran then.

 

[tempus123]

Haha...Oh yeah I forgot.

Kallis, Sobers and Imran > Bradman.

Maybe not. Bradman's batting average is the equivalent of a ATG batsman's and ATG bowler's average.

Apart from Don, everyone else is inferior to Kallis, Sobers and Imran then.

Kallis > Richards.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Kallis > Richards.

Aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhhh...

Never thought of that.

I don't want to live in a world where Kallis is greater than Viv.

No way in hell.

 

[Bilal7]

Then Kapil Dev is a greater cricketer than Murali, Warne, Kumble.

He is also a greater cricketer than Sachin, Lara, Ponting.

Heck, Shakib Al Hasan is a greater cricketer than Virat Kohli.

If that's how we have to judge great crickters, then the answers are way too easy and way too flawed, bud.

Like I said before, they are not because their primary skill is nowhere near those pure batsmen or bowlers that you mentioned. A guy that averages 30 with the bat and 29 with the ball is not as good as a guy who averages 50 with the bat. However, if you get a guy who averages 45 with the bat and 30 with the ball then his overall worth would be more.

These ATG all-rounders are extrememly rare because you have to be exremely gifted to be one. Most other all-rounders are just utility players who wouldn't make the team on their batting or bowling alone.

Gilly easily. But I think Imran/Tendy/Murali are above Gilly. Warne?

Warne would be in their class in my opinion, if all formats are considered.

 

[Monsee]

My list in order of merit

1.Sachin Tendulkar
2.Imran Khan
3.Muthiah Murlitharan
4.Sunil Gavaskar
5.Wasim Akram
6.Kapil Dev
7.Rahul Dravid
8.Waqar Younus
9.Javed Miandad
10.Virendra Sehwag
11.Aravinda de'Silva
12.Subhash Gupte
13.Kumar Sangakaara
14.Bishen Singh Bedi
16.Hanif Mohammad
17.Mahela Jayeawardene
18.Abdul Qadir
19.Anil Kumble
20.Vijay Merchant
21.VijayHazare
22.Gundappa Vishwanath
23.Zaheer Abbas
24.Inzamam Ul Haq
25.Mushtaq Muhammad







It is a photo between Imran and Sachin.What gave Tendulkar the edge was his domination for 22 years at the top,that too on both forms of the game.Imran made a greater impact as a match-winner as player and skipper but became a good batsmen late in his career.Since Sobers Imran was the best match-winner arguably but Tendulkar's record of 100 International Centuries a nd over 25,000 runs speaks for itself.He contends wth Bradman ,Grace and Sobers.Readers ,it could well b e the other way round if you ***** contribution to team but cricket is not only about statistic,it is about flair and impact.Arguably no great player faced the pressure Sachin faced.

Sunil Gavaskar played the greatest pace bolwing and thus edges Rahul Dravid .Although Anil Kumble had great stats I feel Bishen Bedi and Subhash Gupte were better genuine spinners who could perform in all types of conditions.Some experts rate Gupte as the best of all leg-spinners.Abdul Qadir was the most mystical leg spinner ever on the sub-continent whose googy was unredable.Wasim Akram at his best almost joined Imran and Sachin producing spells that few paceman could ever deliver and even batted at times like a champion.To me he hardly did justice to his talent .He was capable of becoming a cricketer in the Tendulkar class.Waqar Younus was close behind Wasim.Javed Miandad was the ultimate batsman in a crisis.I have selected the likes of Sangakaara and Jaywardene but still rate Aravainda de'Silva as the best Sri Lankan batsmen of all.He championed a storm in all conditions.Vishwanath and Zaheer Abbas were the ultimate stylists,Inzamam great match-winner and Mushtaq Muhammad,a great all-round cricketer who made great all-round contributions at his peak.Hazare and Merchant were classical batsmen.

The likes of Majid Khan,Asif Iqbal,Dilip Vengsarkar,Saeed Anwar,Younus Khan,Mohammad Younus , Salim Malik and Sannath Jayasuriya just missout.

Inzi was easily better than most, if not all the highlighted ones...I usually agree with most/all of your posts but this one is a glaring mistake as bad as it can be!

 

[menace2society]

Easily Wasim.

 

[Monsee]

All those making a case for a player pretty much purely on the basis of longevity are making a weak argument IMO...Imran for me here because of the overall package he was and the impact he had on his team!

When one has such great stats (All Time Great level: AVG: 22.81 and SR: 53.7) in their primary skill area despite missing out 2 1/2 years of his peak years and playing last 1-2 years (and a handful tests in between as well) as pretty much a batsman and captain...and still have time to contribute as a batsman with average close to 40 (in an era of giant killer Fast bowlers in droves) and was also one of the most inspirational captains; what else can one ask!

One last thing, all those putting Imran the ODI player down (not only in this thread only) should take a gander at these two links:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/40560.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/30028.html

For someone who is considered one of the best ODI all rounders of all times (Kapil), Imran still beats him in averages (both bowling and batting by a fair distance)and has a better bowling strike as well. The only place where Kapil wins is his batting SR but here is a point for that killer batting prowess in ODI's that many Indian posters harp on and on about: Imran scored roughly the same amount of runs despite playing 47 less innings than Mr. Typhoon Batsman in ODI's! Imran's batting average is almost 10 runs more than Kapil as well

 

[Monsee]

Easily Wasim.

Imran beats Akram hands down in almost every single category in batting and bowling, in tests as well as ODI's except Wasim's better average in ODI bowling!

Add to the fact that Imran is one of the best captains ever and was Wasim's Ustaad as well...this diminishes any competition Akram could provide to Imran. And the fact that Akram's legacy is tainted due to some shady decisions/connections/accusations, it is a no match for me really!

 

[Mamoon]

Imran for me because he was the complete package. An ATG bowler, decent batsman and a revolutionary captain. As a complete package he doesn't have a rival.

Tendulkar would be a very close second purely because of the impact he had on the game, without going into intricate details.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Like I said before, they are not because their primary skill is nowhere near those pure batsmen or bowlers that you mentioned. A guy that averages 30 with the bat and 29 with the ball is not as good as a guy who averages 50 with the bat. However, if you get a guy who averages 45 with the bat and 30 with the ball then his overall worth would be more.

These ATG all-rounders are extrememly rare because you have to be exremely gifted to be one. Most other all-rounders are just utility players who wouldn't make the team on their batting or bowling alone.

If we take skill in one format as a yardstick, then Kallis is a GREATER cricketer than Viv.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Imran for me because he was the complete package. An ATG bowler, decent batsman and a revolutionary captain. As a complete package he doesn't have a rival.

Tendulkar would be a very close second purely because of the impact he had on the game, without going into intricate details.

As a complete package, Imran cannot be matched. Its not even debatable.

The question is - Is it enough to declare one as a greater cricketer? Then guys like Kallis automatically become better than Sachin, Lara, Viv, Ponting, etc. Imran may very well be the best cricketer from Asia but is the yardstick of being a complete package the right criteria to judge the greatest cricketer.

I don't know if you read all the posts in this thread but if you did, I would love to hear your responses to my posts in this thread. One of my posts in this thread. Your views.

Let's put it another way:

Imran Khan - ATG Captain (Tests), ATG Captain (ODIs), ATG Bowler (Tests), Good Batsman (Tests), Very Good Bowler (ODIs), Good Batsman (ODIs)

Sachin Tendulkar - GOAT Batsman (Tests), GOAT Batsman (ODIs)

Who is the greatest?

As a package, one must be blind not to pick Imran.

But when it comes to Pure Pure greatness that is defined by skill and mastery of the highest order in your CHOSEN field, I feel its Sachin.

An example - When you look at bowler averages, you say a bowler with 20 average is better than one with 25 average as long as both of them have played a minimum threshold of matches.

If Bowler A averages 20 playing 60 tests and bowler B averages 25 playing 150 tests, you still say Bowler A is better. You may say Bowler B is a greater servant for his country but you would still go with bowler A as being better. Why? Cos you judge both the bowlers by taking the number of matches they played as the Absolute Environment and use it to make your final decision (of course this is assuming they have played matches above a sufficient threshold).

Same way, if you take Sachin's Absolute Environment as Batting and Imran Khan's as Bowling or All Round Performance (you take a pick) - whom do you think is the greatest? I feel its Sachin.

By the way, I am NOT trying to push Sachin's case here. There is a lot of subjectivity involved in this topic so there is no right answer. I am just trying to present a different style of thinking which I feel would help this discussion.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

Imran for me because he was the complete package. An ATG bowler, decent batsman and a revolutionary captain. As a complete package he doesn't have a rival.

Tendulkar would be a very close second purely because of the impact he had on the game, without going into intricate details.

if you are talking about 'complete package' then it has to be Kapil. he was a very good bowler, above avg: batsman, good captain and a brilliant fielder.he was atleast above average in all 4 disciplines(both tests and one dayers combined).no Kapil - Imran debate here , just w.r.t your 'complete package' case.

 

[1337]

India: Sachin Tendulkar
Pakistan: Imran Khan
Sri Lanka: Who cares!?!
Bangladesh: Who cares!?!

 

[Feroz Rawther]

All those making a case for a player pretty much purely on the basis of longevity are making a weak argument IMO...Imran for me here because of the overall package he was and the impact he had on his team!

When one has such great stats (All Time Great level: AVG: 22.81 and SR: 53.7) in their primary skill area despite missing out 2 1/2 years of his peak years and playing last 1-2 years (and a handful tests in between as well) as pretty much a batsman and captain...and still have time to contribute as a batsman with average close to 40 (in an era of giant killer Fast bowlers in droves) and was also one of the most inspirational captains; what else can one ask!

One last thing, all those putting Imran the ODI player down (not only in this thread only) should take a gander at these two links:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/40560.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/30028.html

For someone who is considered one of the best ODI all rounders of all times (Kapil), Imran still beats him in averages (both bowling and batting by a fair distance)and has a better bowling strike as well. The only place where Kapil wins is his batting SR but here is a point for that killer batting prowess in ODI's that many Indian posters harp on and on about: Imran scored roughly the same amount of runs despite playing 47 less innings than Mr. Typhoon Batsman in ODI's! Imran's batting average is almost 10 runs more than Kapil as well

let the comparison be for 151 inns(same as Imran played). Kapil scored 20.91 runs in 20.93 balls where as Imran scored 24.56 runs in
33.81 balls per inns. that means Imran scored 3.65 more runs but took 12.88 more balls per inns for that.that means 61.54% more balls per inns consumed to score only 17.46% more runs.this is convincingly better stat in favour of Kapil. in one dayers str: rate has much importance and avg: has compartively lesser importance when compared to tests .

w.r.t bowling too after same no: of one dayers as Imran played, Kapil had bettter avg: and better econ:. and fielding has much more priority in one dayers. so in one dayers Kapil was convincingly better.

 

[Tusker]

let the comparison be for 151 inns(same as Imran played). Kapil scored 20.91 runs in 20.93 balls where as Imran scored 24.56 runs in
33.81 balls per inns. that means Imran scored 3.65 more runs but took 12.88 more balls per inns for that.that means 61.54% more balls per inns consumed to score only 17.46% more runs.this is convincingly better stat in favour of Kapil. in one dayers str: rate has much importance and avg: has compartively lesser importance when compared to tests .

w.r.t bowling too after same no: of one dayers as Imran played, Kapil had bettter avg: and better econ:. and fielding has much more priority in one dayers. so in one dayers Kapil was convincingly better.

and he won the Worldcup in his very first try !

 

[Tusker]

Their contributions for their country in their primary skills were not equal. Murali was a gun bowler for far longer( around 100+ tests) and SRT was a gun batsman for far longer( around 150+ tests). IK was a gun bowler for around 35-40 tests. Also, Murali and SRT were guns in their primary skills in ODI for their entire career and IK was not in that league in ODI.

IK's secondary skills puts him in contention with other two here when it comes to how much they contributed as player. Three great players but totally different.. There isn't any convincing answer for who should be tagged as the best in SC based on their contributions as player for their teams.

SRT had a avg of ~57 after 171 Tests if my memory serves me right ... un-real achievement. Add the equally staggering ODI achievements and its a no brainer.

 

[Haroon786]

Yes a cricketer is a player when all of batting, bowling, fielding and if applicable- captaincy ( you could say future impact, but Imran would win again- provided arguably two ATG bowlers, one great batsman and inspired the whole nation to continue bowling fast) have all been accounted for.

In this regard IK is easily the best in Asia and IMO the GOAT.

Kallis a better cricketer than Sachin, some people need to comprehend what a cricketer means.

 

[Tusker]

Please don't be so desperate. Sachin is one of the greatest batsman of all time but he got his 200 wickets simply because of playing 200 test matches and 400 (?) ODIs. Lets not even talk of the average that he got those wickets. He was a part-time bowler and nothing else at any point in his career.

As for his runs, those are some mammoth figures but quality over quantity all day, everyday. Once again, Sachin only got so many runs because he played 200 tests which is more than twice the number Imran played. If we compare them quality wise, Sachin was the best batsman from the subcon while Imran was the best player from the subcon.

There is obviously a comparison which Imran wins hands down since he played more than 80 tests which is enough for anyone to judge how good a player he was.

beg to disagree ... he has won tests(by taking crucial wkts ) and odi's against top Teams ... he never worked hard on his bowling skills like Imran did to his batting.

And what do you mean he got soo many runs only because he played 200 Tests ? Did anyone stop BCL, RTP,RD, JM, Inzi etc from playing on ? Endurance is not easy. Also Its not like he played for an IPL team owned by his friend. No one gets to play more than what they deserve. Nor did he prevent other greats from playing on. Yes there are rare exceptions but not to the extent of making a career that would make for combined careers of 2 great Pakistani batsmen. The answer to your question lies in the tears that were shed by grown ups when he retired. Nobody evokes that kind of emotions if he has been a shifarasi player. And there is a reason for that . Unmatched greatness. If he were to bat even now he could easily construct a Imranesque Test batting career in about 3-4 yrs time. All the skills are all still right there !!

 

[Energetic]

India: Sachin Tendulkar
Pakistan: Imran Khan
Sri Lanka: Who cares!?!
Bangladesh: Who cares!?!

Maria Sharapova doesn't care.

 

[Energetic]

Has to be Mohammad Hafeez. Currently ranked the worlds number 1 all-rounder in limited overs Cricket.

 

[corneredtiger85292]

Imran khan. That's all.

 

[Feroz Rawther]

and he won the Worldcup in his very first try !

yes. w.r.t captaincy Kapil is way under rated. to me his world cup winning performance is the best all round performance in a 'one day series' in the history of one day game.he scored the 'do or die 175* ' ,scored consistantly with the bat and ball thru out the series, took the all important catch of Viv.his batting figures
alone is amazing, i mean a bat avg: of over 60 and str: rate of 108+. had a bowl avg: of 20 too in the tournament.what not , he was the best allrounder in the 1992 world cup too.

To add to the above,Kapil has a 2-0 series victory in ENG as captain.He has a drawn series in AUS where he performed both with bat and ball brilliantly.Infact India had the upper hand thru out this series.not much to say about the WI 1983 series performance.to me Kapil's +42 bat avg: & 24 bowl avg: is the best all round performance in a 5 test series if we take into account the quality of the opposition and the 'away' factor.

So he was a brilliant captain when we consider the fact that he led a weak team, especially bowling wise.
Also, his role was a 'mediator' type in that he had to please every body,i mean team members from different zones, seniors, juniors, selectors etc etc. here he had to be satisfied with what ever resources he was alloted with.what i mean is he didn't have the 'dictator' type previlige that a captain like Imran enjoyed in the 'PAK' cricket set up.Imran could kick out the selector out if he wanted to.

 

[Kiri]

It's Murali for me. I can't see another player breaking his records for the next 10 years.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Murali - Best Spin bowler
Tendulkar - Best Batsmen
Imran - Best Captain, Fast Bowler
BOOMBOOM - Quickest entry and exists.....

For me Murali gets it because, everytime people say Warne done something....Murali has just done better look at the stats!

 

[CaptainPak]

For what they have achieved, it's between Imran and Kapil Dev...a virtual draw. They won the ultimate prize for their countries when nobody thought they could.

 

[MenInG]

Any changes to opinions after 4.5 years?

 

[Hyperion66]

Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar.

 

[Hitman]

Almost every time any list of greatest cricketers has come up from former greats and pundits of the game, it's SRT who has come out as the GOAT Asian cricketer. Of course Pak fans would be emotional and would vote for Imran Khan, it's understandable.

Heck, such a list of top 25 greatest cricketers came up in 2001 known as ESPN Legends of Cricket where 25 greats and pundits of the game voted their 25 greatest cricketers, even back then SRT come out as the GOAT Asian cricketer.

 

[big_gamer007]

SRT will always be the greatest for next 2-3 decades. After that the newer generations will make someone else as GOAT.

I would rate Wasim over IK from Pakistan

 

[Manunited18]

SRT will always be the greatest for next 2-3 decades. After that the newer generations will make someone else as GOAT.

I would rate Wasim over IK from Pakistan

Imran, followed by wasim, Sachin

 

[big_gamer007]

Imran, followed by wasim, Sachin

That's your opinion and being from Pakistan one can understand why.

However, from Wisden's top 5 to 25 greatest cricketers and fan following, SRT trump's everyone else from Asia.

This thread is an open ended discussion, people have biases and will consider their own choice as the best, however, globally among Pundits and amount of crazed fan base SRT will be #1.