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Who is the most influential poet in the history of Pakistan - Allama Iqbal or Faiz Ahmed Faiz?

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1- Dont try to be politically correct.
2- Choose one.
3- State the reason of your choice.
4- State the reason why you didnt Choose the other one.
5- His contribution for the state of Pakistan.
6- Dont include other poets from Pakistan/non-Pakistan.

Thanks.
 
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Other non- pakistanis ppers can also contribute to the thread, they are most welcome. thanks.
 
1- Dont try to be politically correct.
2- Choose one.
3- State the reason of your choice.
4- State the reason why you didnt Choose the other one.
5- His contribution for the state of Pakistan.
6- Dont include other poets from Pakistan/non-Pakistan.

Thanks.

Allama Iqbal died before Pakistan was created so technically he is ineligible for this topic.
 
Iqbal because his influence on our society is just too much with and can't be compared even after 80+ years of his death. Faiz on the other side was a a legendary poet but his socialist ideas were never able to attract a great presence in our society back in his days and even today his presence is limited to some universities/colleges and urdu festivals that's it.
 
Allama Iqbal died before Pakistan was created so technically he is ineligible for this topic.

He was born and died in Pakistan (during british raj) and came up with the idea of Pakistan so i dont think his eligibility can't be questioned.
 
He was born and died in Pakistan (during british raj) and came up with the idea of Pakistan so i dont think his eligibility can't be questioned.
there was no Pakistan when he was born AND there was no Pakistan when he died. Fact.
 
Iqbal because his influence on our society is just too much with and can't be compared even after 80+ years of his death. Faiz on the other side was a a legendary poet but his socialist ideas were never able to attract a great presence in our society back in his days and even today his presence is limited to some universities/colleges and urdu festivals that's it.

thanks.

He was born and died in Pakistan (during british raj) and came up with the idea of Pakistan so i dont think his eligibility can't be questioned.

one needs to understand where he is coming from. he knows the question very well. just trying to find a loop hole.
 
Allama Iqbal, Pakistan is the dream of Iqbal .... Faiz ahmed faiz is limited to the elite burger drunk class. theres no point to compare. its not even apple and oranges. the vision of Iqbal and his class is way above and unmatched to any other poet in sub-cont.
 
Notice the places where Iqbal/Faiz are discussed/quoted and you will get your answer...
 
Iqbal wasn't Pakistani, although he is the spiritual father of that nation. Should the question be modern Asian poet?
 
Iqbal wasn't Pakistani, although he is the spiritual father of that nation. Should the question be modern Asian poet?

what ? was Quad e Azam a pakistani ? .... lol
wheres this coming from ? first Quad e Azam's father wasnt muslim and now Allama Iqbal is considered non-pakistani ?
some of our elite class are brainwashed stupid ...
 
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Allama Iqbal is obviously far more influential. However, Faiz is my personal favorite because of his strong criticism of Pakistan Army.
 
what ? was Quad e Azam a pakistani ? .... lol
wheres this coming from ? first Quad e Azam's father wasnt muslim and now Allama Iqbal is considered non-pakistani ?
some of our elite class are brainwashed stupid ...

Do you realise when Pakistan was created? It was in 1947, Jinnah lived on beyond that and so obviously was a Pakistani.

Iqbal passed away in 1938, 9 years before Pakistan existed, so technically speaking he was not Pakistani, no one was. Maybe you are imposing other people's views and ideas onto what I have written.
 
Faiz was part of Rawalpindi Conspiracy he aligned himself with Army to remove a sitting Govt! before becoming the revolutionary :))
 
Faiz was part of Rawalpindi Conspiracy he aligned himself with Army to remove a sitting Govt! before becoming the revolutionary :))

Which is why he has seen their true selfs and why he criticized them later. I am sure you have heard his classic nazam that has been banned by the military.
 
Do you realise when Pakistan was created? It was in 1947, Jinnah lived on beyond that and so obviously was a Pakistani.

Iqbal passed away in 1938, 9 years before Pakistan existed, so technically speaking he was not Pakistani, no one was. Maybe you are imposing other people's views and ideas onto what I have written.

He is a living example of the 72 year mass propaganda of Pakistan military. Don’t point out facts to him.

Allama Iqbal was hugely influential in the creation of Pakistan and was the first to propose the idea of dividing north Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP into a sovereign land for Muslims, but he was not Pakistani because he died before independence.
 
Forget Allama Iqbal, some people even call Muhammad bin Qasim as Pakistani, even though he died in the 8th century.
 
Forget Allama Iqbal, some people even call Muhammad bin Qasim as Pakistani, even though he died in the 8th century.

This is the first time i am hearing about Muhammad bin Qasim being a Pakistani
 
Do you realise when Pakistan was created? It was in 1947, Jinnah lived on beyond that and so obviously was a Pakistani.

Iqbal passed away in 1938, 9 years before Pakistan existed, so technically speaking he was not Pakistani, no one was. Maybe you are imposing other people's views and ideas onto what I have written.

He is a living example of the 72 year mass propaganda of Pakistan military. Don’t point out facts to him.

Allama Iqbal was hugely influential in the creation of Pakistan and was the first to propose the idea of dividing north Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP into a sovereign land for Muslims, but he was not Pakistani because he died before independence.

i know the history of pakistan more thn you both can think of...
Iqbal wasnt pakistani "technically" ? is that what the OP is asking ? technically ? what you people are even smoking these days ?
what the hell its even mean ?
i tell you what are the facts ,
Iqbal is considered the National poet of Pakistan not of combodia etc ... he was born in pakistan (british raj), sialkot, died in lahore ( british raj) which is present day called a pakistani city, he was named as national poet of the state of Pakistan. he joined the muslim league in 1927, he died before independence, doesnt mean his caused was died too, he stood for his dream till death, which is a reality called Pakistan , so what more you people want him to be called as Pakistani ?
and you really dont want me to start about the fact of the so called "revolutionary" poet .... so spare me with your bullcrap ....
 
what ? was Quad e Azam a pakistani ? .... lol
wheres this coming from ? first Quad e Azam's father wasnt muslim and now Allama Iqbal is considered non-pakistani ?
some of our elite class are brainwashed stupid ...

Jinnah's paternal grandfather was from a (sub caste of Baniyas) from Paneli Moti village in Gondal state in Kathiawar in Gujarat, India. He had made his fortune in the fish business, but he was boycotted from his vegetarian Hindu Lohana caste because of their strong religious beliefs. When he discontinued his fish business and tried to come back to his caste, he was not allowed to do so. Resultantly, his son, Punjalal Thakkar (the father of Jinnah), was so angry with the humiliation that he changed his and his four son's religion, and converted to Islam. Jinnah’s father Poonjabhai Jinno was a first generation Muslim with Khoja Ismaili Firqa belief, however, the next generation switched their belief to Shia Islam
 
Jinnah's paternal grandfather was from a (sub caste of Baniyas) from Paneli Moti village in Gondal state in Kathiawar in Gujarat, India. He had made his fortune in the fish business, but he was boycotted from his vegetarian Hindu Lohana caste because of their strong religious beliefs. When he discontinued his fish business and tried to come back to his caste, he was not allowed to do so. Resultantly, his son, Punjalal Thakkar (the father of Jinnah), was so angry with the humiliation that he changed his and his four son's religion, and converted to Islam. Jinnah’s father Poonjabhai Jinno was a first generation Muslim with Khoja Ismaili Firqa belief, however, the next generation switched their belief to Shia Islam

hes father was died as muslim. thats enough for the history. if we go by that logic thn almost half of pakistanis werent muslims.
 
i know the history of pakistan more thn you both can think of...
Iqbal wasnt pakistani "technically" ? is that what the OP is asking ? technically ? what you people are even smoking these days ?
what the hell its even mean ?
i tell you what are the facts ,
Iqbal is considered the National poet of Pakistan not of combodia etc ... he was born in pakistan (british raj), sialkot, died in lahore ( british raj) which is present day called a pakistani city, he was named as national poet of the state of Pakistan. he joined the muslim league in 1927, he died before independence, doesnt mean his caused was died too, he stood for his dream till death, which is a reality called Pakistan , so what more you people want him to be called as Pakistani ?
and you really dont want me to start about the fact of the so called "revolutionary" poet .... so spare me with your bullcrap ....

Yes I know he is known as the national poet of Pakistan, that does not make him a Pakistani because it did not exist back then. Can he retrospectively be labelled as such? Would he have liked it? Most probably, actually the answer is definitely. I was merely stating a fact.

Is he the spiritual founder of Pakistan? Yes.

This is mere fact.
 
[MENTION=140488]Lonewarrior[/MENTION]
[MENTION=139314]ARK Rafay[/MENTION]
[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION]

The belief that MbQ was the first Pakistani can be traced to M. Jinnah, who asserted that the Pakistan movement started when MbQ conquered Sindh and established a Muslim state.

Although M. Jinnah didn’t explicitly mentioned MbQ as the first Pakistani, his assertion gave birth to this misguided sentiment.

Please read the following:

Ever since the early 1970s, the Jamaat-i-Islami (JI), has been frequently organising ‘Yaum Babul Islam’ — an event in which the party celebrates the conquest of Sindh by Arab commander Mohammad Bin Qasim, explaining it as the ‘advent of Islam in South Asia’.

Speakers at this event also describe Qasim as the ‘first Pakistani’ and then trace and place the creation of Pakistan to the arrival of the Arab commander 1,300 years ago.

But it wasn’t really the JI that had first initiated the idea of dressing up an 8th century Arab as the true founder of Pakistan.

This impression which, from the late 1970s onwards, has found ample space in the country’s school text books, was first alluded to in a 1953 book, Five Years of Pakistan.

The book was published by the government to commemorate the fifth anniversary of Pakistan.

In a recent detailed essay on the subject, Manan Ahmed Asif (a professor of history at Columbia University), informs that although allusions to Qasim being the ‘first Pakistani’ can be found in various publications after 1953, he was first officially adopted as the ‘first citizen of Pakistan’ in Fifty Years of Pakistan published by the Federal Bureau of Pakistan in 1998.

The whole notion of Qasim’s invasion of Sindh being the genesis of a separate Muslim state in South Asia was first imagined by a handful of Pakistani archaeologists in 1953.

It then found its way into the narrative of religious parties such as the JI, before being weaved into school text books (by the populist Z.A. Bhutto regime) due to the severe existential crisis that the country faced after its Eastern wing (former East Pakistan) broke away in December 1971 to become Bangladesh.

The notion was then aggressively promoted by the reactionary Ziaul Haq dictatorship (1977-1988), as a way to explain Pakistan as a nation that had deeper roots in the ancient deserts of Arabia than in the congested expanses of South Asia.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1175127
 
i know the history of pakistan more thn you both can think of...
Iqbal wasnt pakistani "technically" ? is that what the OP is asking ? technically ? what you people are even smoking these days ?
what the hell its even mean ?
i tell you what are the facts ,
Iqbal is considered the National poet of Pakistan not of combodia etc ... he was born in pakistan (british raj), sialkot, died in lahore ( british raj) which is present day called a pakistani city, he was named as national poet of the state of Pakistan. he joined the muslim league in 1927, he died before independence, doesnt mean his caused was died too, he stood for his dream till death, which is a reality called Pakistan , so what more you people want him to be called as Pakistani ?
and you really dont want me to start about the fact of the so called "revolutionary" poet .... so spare me with your bullcrap ....

You don’t know the history of Pakistan. You only the fabricated, propaganda version. Please don’t waste you breathe by highlighting the contributions of Iqbal that even a third grader has studied in Pak Studies curriculum.

The fact is that Pakistan did not exist at the time of his death and hence he was not a Pakistani. He was a British Indian who dreamed of the creation of Pakistan but unfortunately he did not live long enough to be a part of his dream.

Sialkot and Lahore are Pakistani cities today but back then they were part of British India. If you want to call him an honorary Pakistani that is fine, but technically he was not Pakistani.

I am actually glad that he died before the creation of Pakistan, because he was lucky to not see the destruction of his Two Nation Theory with the way West Pakistan discriminated against East Pakistan and committed a genocide.
 
[MENTION=140488]Lonewarrior[/MENTION]

[MENTION=139314]ARK Rafay[/MENTION]

[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION]

The belief that MbQ was the first Pakistani can be traced to M. Jinnah, who asserted that the Pakistan movement started when MbQ conquered Sindh and established a Muslim state.

Although M. Jinnah didn’t explicitly mentioned MbQ as the first Pakistani, his assertion gave birth to this misguided sentiment.

Please read the following:



https://www.dawn.com/news/1175127

Yes but what i am saying is that it's not a common knowledge because i myself never heard anyone claiming MbQ being a Pakistani and i know many people of JI even never heard any of them mentioning it.
 
1- Dont try to be politically correct.
2- Choose one.
3- State the reason of your choice.
4- State the reason why you didnt Choose the other one.
5- His contribution for the state of Pakistan.
6- Dont include other poets from Pakistan/non-Pakistan.

Thanks.

I like iqbal
He was a good guy and I’ve heard some of his poems
I’ve never heard a faiz poem
Iqbal was like the brain behind jinnahs ideas so I think he was like a spiritual guru
 
There is no match between Iqbal and Faiz. Iqbal is one of the greatest poet ever the world has produced.
 
You don’t know the history of Pakistan. You only the fabricated, propaganda version. Please don’t waste you breathe by highlighting the contributions of Iqbal that even a third grader has studied in Pak Studies curriculum.

The fact is that Pakistan did not exist at the time of his death and hence he was not a Pakistani. He was a British Indian who dreamed of the creation of Pakistan but unfortunately he did not live long enough to be a part of his dream.

Sialkot and Lahore are Pakistani cities today but back then they were part of British India. If you want to call him an honorary Pakistani that is fine, but technically he was not Pakistani.

I am actually glad that he died before the creation of Pakistan, because he was lucky to not see the destruction of his Two Nation Theory with the way West Pakistan discriminated against East Pakistan and committed a genocide.

again, not gonna reply more with your utter bullcrap .... first read what i wrote thn try to reply ....

i know the history of pakistan more thn you both can think of...
Iqbal wasnt pakistani "technically" ? is that what the OP is asking ? technically ? what you people are even smoking these days ?
what the hell its even mean ?
i tell you what are the facts ,
Iqbal is considered the National poet of Pakistan not of combodia etc ... he was born in pakistan (british raj), sialkot, died in lahore ( british raj) which is present day called a pakistani city, he was named as national poet of the state of Pakistan. he joined the muslim league in 1927, he died before independence, doesnt mean his caused was died too, he stood for his dream till death, which is a reality called Pakistan , so what more you people want him to be called as Pakistani ?
and you really dont want me to start about the fact of the so called "revolutionary" poet .... so spare me with your bullcrap ....
 
[MENTION=140488]Lonewarrior[/MENTION]

[MENTION=139314]ARK Rafay[/MENTION]

[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION]

The belief that MbQ was the first Pakistani can be traced to M. Jinnah, who asserted that the Pakistan movement started when MbQ conquered Sindh and established a Muslim state.

Although M. Jinnah didn’t explicitly mentioned MbQ as the first Pakistani, his assertion gave birth to this misguided sentiment.

Please read the following:



https://www.dawn.com/news/1175127

theres no school book today which said that MbQ was a first pakistani, sometimes text book keeps changing for political reason, even in india, so i dont think you are that naive to understand simple thing.
 
You don’t know the history of Pakistan. You only the fabricated, propaganda version. Please don’t waste you breathe by highlighting the contributions of Iqbal that even a third grader has studied in Pak Studies curriculum.

The fact is that Pakistan did not exist at the time of his death and hence he was not a Pakistani. He was a British Indian who dreamed of the creation of Pakistan but unfortunately he did not live long enough to be a part of his dream.

Sialkot and Lahore are Pakistani cities today but back then they were part of British India. If you want to call him an honorary Pakistani that is fine, but technically he was not Pakistani.

I am actually glad that he died before the creation of Pakistan, because he was lucky to not see the destruction of his Two Nation Theory with the way West Pakistan discriminated against East Pakistan and committed a genocide.


again, not gonna reply more with your utter bullcrap .... first read what i wrote thn try to reply ....

[/B]

i know the history of pakistan more thn you both can think of...
Iqbal wasnt pakistani "technically" ? is that what the OP is asking ? technically ? what you people are even smoking these days ?
what the hell its even mean ?
i tell you what are the facts ,
Iqbal is considered the National poet of Pakistan not of combodia etc ... he was born in pakistan (british raj), sialkot, died in lahore ( british raj) which is present day called a pakistani city, he was named as national poet of the state of Pakistan. he joined the muslim league in 1927, he died before independence, doesnt mean his caused was died too, he stood for his dream till death, which is a reality called Pakistan , so what more you people want him to be called as Pakistani ?
and you really dont want me to start about the fact of the so called "revolutionary" poet .... so spare me with your bullcrap ....


loyalty with the nation is not your forte, so its hard for you to understand... he was born in british raj, but he was the one who gave the idea of pakistan, if someone create the idea thn surely hes the one of the founder of that creation, he was the member of muslim leauge, he died before freedom, but stood still to his idea till his death, that something which your kind of ilk wont understand ....
 
Allama Iqbal hands down. He was the man who first put forward the idea of Pakistan.
 
First on Iqbal.

Iqbal’s relation to Pakistan is in fact more ambiguous than nationalists writers would readily admit. Iqbal was hostile to the idea of territorial nationalism. He warned “the national idea is racialising the outlook of Muslims, and thus materially counteracting the humanising work of Islam.” He called for a consolidated Muslim enclave in British India, which would shield Islam and would indeed be a space where it could flower once more, but the nation was not an end in itself.

But there is also no denying that his support for the Muslim League gave it an intellectual credibility and even more importantly his ideas influenced the concept of Pakistan as it was projected in the 1940s and beyond into independent statehood.

As David Gilmartin has argued, “the Muslim community itself, and the ideal Muslim state, served for Iqbal as a symbolic cultural expression of the common striving of Muslims for Islamic fulfilment – a political manifestation of a common heritage and a common mission.” The community's will was seen not as a product of blindly following Muslim leaders, but as a personal and active commitment of individuals to Islam.

The Muslim League, taking its cue from Iqbal, appealed for the need for individual moral transformation, with individuals identifying with the ‘higher’ moral ideal of the Muslim community, symbolised by the existence of a Muslim state, which transcended local division. In the League’s rhetoric, support for Pakistan was projected as a demonstration of a personal commitment to Islamic ideals, which were threatened by the existence of worldly self-interest.

It has been argued by Naveeda Khan, in her work Muslim Becoming, that “Iqbal's picture of Muslim aspiration” continued to influence popular conceptions of Pakistan after 1947, and that “the earliest constitution-making body in Pakistan used the language of experimentation to set the new nation-state on the course of an Iqbal-inspired striving to be Muslim.”

Iqbal’s stress on human action, Muslim community and continuous striving can be identified in many of his verses. Take his poem on Khizar, who of course in Islamic thought is seen as a guide to those who lost their way. In the first two stanzas, the poet described the meeting with Khizar and the questions he asks of him. In reply Khizar states: why the astonishment at him roaming in the deserts. The proof of life lies in the striving for every breath:

kyun tajjub hai meri sahra-nawardi par tujhe
ye taga-pu-e-damadam zindagi ki hai dalil

In other words it is those who are engaged in constant striving who are truly alive. Later in the poem he reminds Muslims of the importance of a religious community. If race prevails over religion, then you have flown away from the world like dust on the way:

nasl agar Muslim ki mazhab par muqaddum ho gai
uD gaya duniya se tu mainind-e-KHak-e-rah-guzar

Turning to Faiz, he continues to serve as an inspiration for the many that seek to resist injustice and oppression, that aspire for a fairer world and who sympathise with the poor and downtrodden. He also reminds us that the vision of a more just society was a key aspect of the Pakistan movement.

That Pakistan would be an abode for the realisation of social justice was often presented as moral justification for the creation of the Pakistan state. This was especially pronounced in Bengal in the context of rising destitution and misery that afflicted many peasants. But the message was not restricted to Bengal, nor was it limited to socialists and communists. Many modernists saw Islam as proving the middle ground between capitalism and communism (and this was even reflected in Jinnah’s speeches). There were important thinkers especially at Osmania University in Hyderabad that provided intellectual firepower for this position.

Faiz himself served the Pakistan government in the early years - as part of the government delegations to the International Labour Organisations in San Francisco in 1948 and Geneva in 1949-50. Many on the left though would become disenchanted by the Muslim League. Faiz himself expressed eloquently the sense of disillusionment at ‘Freedom’s Dawn’ (I have taken the translation from Victor Kiernan):

Ye dagh dagh ujala, ye shab-gazida sahar
Vo intizar tha jis-ka, ye vo sahar to nahin
Ye vo sahar to nahin jis-ki arzu lekar
Chale the year ke mil-ja’egi kahin na kahin

This leprous daybreak, dawn’s night’s fangs have mangled -
This is not that long-looked for break of day,
Not that clear dawn in quest of which those comrades
Set out, believing that in heaven’s wide void

In another poem, which remains apt for today, he reminds us of the callousness of the human indifference to suffering. Taking just a few lines: he writes of the cries of the orphaned and helpless blood; that no one has time or ability to listen to; no appellant, no witness stepped forward, the account was closed; while the blood of those that lived in dirt flowed deeper into the dust:

Pukarta raha be-asra yatim lahu
Kisi ko bahr-e-samaat na waqt tha na dimagh
Na muddai na shahadat hisab Pak hua
Ye KHun-e-khak-nashinan tha rizq-e-KHak hua

Finally, Faiz himself endured spells in prison. But he offered this as an inspiration for those that seek to resist oppression: that it did not matter if his pen had been snatched away; that he had dipped his fingers in the blood of his heart; that it did not matter that his mouth was sealed; for he had turned every link of his chain into a tongue:

Mata-e-lauh-o-qalam chhin gai to kya gham hai
Ki KHun-e-dil mein Dubo li hain ungliyan main ne
Zaban pe mohr lagi hai to kya ki rakh di hai
Har ek halqa-e-zanjir mein zaban main ne
 
[MENTION=140488]Lonewarrior[/MENTION]

[MENTION=139314]ARK Rafay[/MENTION]

[MENTION=133397]WebGuru[/MENTION]

The belief that MbQ was the first Pakistani can be traced to M. Jinnah, who asserted that the Pakistan movement started when MbQ conquered Sindh and established a Muslim state.

Although M. Jinnah didn’t explicitly mentioned MbQ as the first Pakistani, his assertion gave birth to this misguided sentiment.

Please read the following:



https://www.dawn.com/news/1175127

Your initial quote was some people also called M Bin Qasim a Pakistani. I have never heard this from Someone in Pakistan not even by JI. It's simply not a common knowledge.
 
Allama Iqbal's influence goes beyond Pakistan, while Faiz is limited to elite liberals drawing rooms.
 
The lyricist for so many songs :P jokes aside too much hate for Faiz here..

It's not the hate its just that a common Pakistani feel more closer to Dr Iqbal while our elite use Faiz in their drawing room discussions in elite universities and conferences so maybe it's the hate for the elite class instead of Faiz?

Maybe it's the hypocrisy for example many among elite class quote Faiz regularly while criticizing Army and their involvement in businesses but at the same time these elites are sitting in the comfort of their beautiful home in DHA an Army based housing scheme made for elites.
 
It's not the hate its just that a common Pakistani feel more closer to Dr Iqbal while our elite use Faiz in their drawing room discussions in elite universities and conferences so maybe it's the hate for the elite class instead of Faiz?

Maybe it's the hypocrisy for example many among elite class quote Faiz regularly while criticizing Army and their involvement in businesses but at the same time these elites are sitting in the comfort of their beautiful home in DHA an Army based housing scheme made for elites.

Yes but also someone who is among the ones to form the idea of Pakistan how can he be compared to someone who was a citizen of that idea later on.
Its almost seems like a one sided comparison.

Wonder Is there anything about what Faiz thought of Iqbal @KB ?
 
He is a living example of the 72 year mass propaganda of Pakistan military. Don’t point out facts to him.

Allama Iqbal was hugely influential in the creation of Pakistan and was the first to propose the idea of dividing north Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP into a sovereign land for Muslims, but he was not Pakistani because he died before independence.

Well his children and grandchildren would all disagree with you as they're proud Pakistanis. Of course the Pakistan resolution wasn't passed until years after his death but he was born and raised in Sialkot and buried in Lahore both of which are in present-day Pakistan so can be considered a Pakistn, more over like you admit he played a monumental role in the formation of Pakistan.
 
Wonder Is there anything about what Faiz thought of Iqbal @KB ?

Yes, in general Faiz wrote admiringly of Iqbal. He wrote an effusive poem praising Iqbal in 1941. The poem was actually a quite fluffy one. He also wrote some essays later in life where he analysed Iqbal's contribution to poetry. He reckoned Iqbal made a positive contribution to the cause of the progressive thought.
 
Allama Iqbal recognized internationally

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">13- Iqbal Lahori boulevard Mashhad, Iran<br>14- Iqbal-Ufer street Heidelberg, Germany<br>15- Honorary grave of Allama Iqbal, Konya, Turkey<br>16- Iqbal Lahori street, Tehran, Iran <a href="https://t.co/e5tGKPnr2j">pic.twitter.com/e5tGKPnr2j</a></p>— Muhammad Ibrahim Qazi (@miqazi) <a href="https://twitter.com/miqazi/status/1010566979915304960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 23, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

allama-iqbal-1000x500.jpg


563faabb295f6.jpg


https://www.bolnews.com/trending/2019/11/allama-iqbal-recognized-internationally-for-his-poetic-work/
 
[MENTION=143123]Poseidon[/MENTION] Iqbal is really famous in Iran and they call him Iqbal Lahori. Turks also love him i have seen Erdogan quoting him in speeches. But in india i guess Faiz is more popular specially in Delhi? [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION]

<iframe width="720" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hpe2zWVUjDA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
[MENTION=143123]Poseidon[/MENTION] Iqbal is really famous in Iran and they call him Iqbal Lahori. Turks also love him i have seen Erdogan quoting him in speeches. But in india i guess Faiz is more popular specially in Delhi? [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION]

yes he is very famous among turks and iranians.
 
Yes, in general Faiz wrote admiringly of Iqbal. He wrote an effusive poem praising Iqbal in 1941. The poem was actually a quite fluffy one. He also wrote some essays later in life where he analysed Iqbal's contribution to poetry. He reckoned Iqbal made a positive contribution to the cause of the progressive thought.

Which makes sense, but in a way they both were elite of their time even Mr.Jinnah.

I have a firm belief that if 3 of them were politicians now I don't see them winning elections or population having a favorable view of em.
 
[MENTION=143123]Poseidon[/MENTION] Iqbal is really famous in Iran and they call him Iqbal Lahori. Turks also love him i have seen Erdogan quoting him in speeches. But in india i guess Faiz is more popular specially in Delhi? [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION]

<iframe width="720" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hpe2zWVUjDA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Well Indians unknowingly love his poem "Tarānah-e-Hindi" (our first man to space said that "Sare Jahan se acha Hindostan humara") , I think Faiz as such would be preferred in India because of Mr. Iqbal's involvement in creation of Pakistan.

Faiz is again loved by the socialists/Leftists and ones who love Urdu Poetry.
 
Well Indians unknowingly love his poem "Tarānah-e-Hindi" (our first man to space said that "Sare Jahan se acha Hindostan humara") , I think Faiz as such would be preferred in India because of Mr. Iqbal's involvement in creation of Pakistan.

Faiz is again loved by the socialists/Leftists and ones who love Urdu Poetry.

PTI's Senator Waleed Iqbal (Grandson of Iqbal) visited India a few years ago to receive Tarana-e-Hind Award from West Bengal CM Mamta. I noticed Faiz poems are always a part of Jashn-e-Rekhta annual Urdu festival in Delhi.

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Debates about Iqbal's "national identity" is pointless, Iqbal was first and foremost a Muslim and then his secondary identity was his Kashmiri-Punjabi identity, the Kashmiri community of Punjab is proud of him and have the most claim to him. :afridi
 
PTI's Senator Waleed Iqbal (Grandson of Iqbal) visited India a few years ago to receive Tarana-e-Hind Award from West Bengal CM Mamta. I noticed Faiz poems are always a part of Jashn-e-Rekhta annual Urdu festival in Delhi.

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Bengal is very unique to me even as an Indian, if you notice here the one that defends India most here is [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] a Bengali and yet Bengal goes out of its way to love Pakistani celebrities from Imran to him, to Shoaib in IPL .

My assumption is it stems from socialism to appeasement among politicians.
 
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Sir Allama was a much more deep thinker then Faiz. Sir Iqbal is the name of a revolution!
 
"Tere dariya mein toofan kyun nehi hai. Khudi teri Musalman kyun nehi hai!?". Sir Iqbal was a genius where as Faiz just an Urdu poet.
 
Bengal is very unique to me even as an Indian, if you notice here the one that defends India most here is [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] a Bengali and yet Bengal goes out of its way to love Pakistani celebrities from Imran to him, to Shoaib in IPL .

My assumption is it stems from socialism to appeasement among politicians.

Yes i noticed this too. I remember during Aane Do series IK and 2 Ws were invited in Eden Gardens to give some medal/awards.
 
It's not the hate its just that a common Pakistani feel more closer to Dr Iqbal while our elite use Faiz in their drawing room discussions in elite universities and conferences so maybe it's the hate for the elite class instead of Faiz?

Allama Iqbal's influence goes beyond Pakistan, while Faiz is limited to elite liberals drawing rooms.

I think there is a lot truth in Faiz's poetry not quite making its way into the streets. It might also be added that Faiz himself seemed most at home in colleges and drawing-rooms. It might also further be said that his poetry lacked that sense of travail and toil that the working people of Pakistan experienced.

This thought is prompted by [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] perceptive comments a while back on Faiz:

"Ustaad Daman, sort of the Punjabi-language Jalib, was a dear friend of Faiz, but he would poke fun at Faiz's attempts at truly proletarian poetry. He would say that Faiz had composed an excellent Punjabi poem... in Urdu."
 
Iqbal inspired a movement which influenced the birth of a country.
Faiz was just a great poet.
Most people don't understand Iqbal. Everyone who follows Urdu can understand Faiz.
Only a fraction of Iqbal's poems are publicised.
Iqbal connected the ordinary man with extraordinary concepts.
 
I think there is a lot truth in Faiz's poetry not quite making its way into the streets. It might also be added that Faiz himself seemed most at home in colleges and drawing-rooms. It might also further be said that his poetry lacked that sense of travail and toil that the working people of Pakistan experienced.

This thought is prompted by [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] perceptive comments a while back on Faiz:

"Ustaad Daman, sort of the Punjabi-language Jalib, was a dear friend of Faiz, but he would poke fun at Faiz's attempts at truly proletarian poetry. He would say that Faiz had composed an excellent Punjabi poem... in Urdu."

There's also an admission of this sentiment in the foreword of Faiz's Zindaannama by Major Ishaq, one of his co-accused in the 1951 case: that Faiz's poetry still had to make the leap from the drawing rooms to the streets.

That said, it isn't as if it never did: there isn't any political party, including the right-wing ones, that haven't co-opted his poetry, much as the state has co-opted Iqbal's, into their sloganeering and banners. The hard left parties (not the much-maligned mainstream "liberal" ones) do so to this day, and their lack of penetration in the masses notwithstanding, they are proletarian and can't be accused of being consigned to supposedly liberal drawing rooms.

Speaking of hard left, there's something to be said about ideology limiting his appeal vis-a-vis Iqbal: one can try, and many have, to apply benign labels such as "humanistic" to his poetry in order to downplay his lifelong commitment to communism, but since communism never caught on in Pakistan, its leading literary voice will always come off worse off when contrasted with the official national poet professing an altogether different ideology. I say this without in any way disparaging either (poet).

Whether this alone explains the disparity in popularity, I don't know. My late college Urdu professor, a great influence on me, listed Mir, Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz as the respective poetic giants of four different eras in the Muslim history of the subcontinent: pre-Raj, post-1857, pre-1947 and post-1947. Or 18th century, 19th century, pre-independence 20th century and post-independence 20th century if you will. It should be possible to appreciate both Iqbal and Faiz without denigrating either. I certainly do.
 
There's also an admission of this sentiment in the foreword of Faiz's Zindaannama by Major Ishaq, one of his co-accused in the 1951 case: that Faiz's poetry still had to make the leap from the drawing rooms to the streets.

That said, it isn't as if it never did: there isn't any political party, including the right-wing ones, that haven't co-opted his poetry, much as the state has co-opted Iqbal's, into their sloganeering and banners. The hard left parties (not the much-maligned mainstream "liberal" ones) do so to this day, and their lack of penetration in the masses notwithstanding, they are proletarian and can't be accused of being consigned to supposedly liberal drawing rooms.

Speaking of hard left, there's something to be said about ideology limiting his appeal vis-a-vis Iqbal: one can try, and many have, to apply benign labels such as "humanistic" to his poetry in order to downplay his lifelong commitment to communism, but since communism never caught on in Pakistan, its leading literary voice will always come off worse off when contrasted with the official national poet professing an altogether different ideology. I say this without in any way disparaging either (poet).

Whether this alone explains the disparity in popularity, I don't know. My late college Urdu professor, a great influence on me, listed Mir, Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz as the respective poetic giants of four different eras in the Muslim history of the subcontinent: pre-Raj, post-1857, pre-1947 and post-1947. Or 18th century, 19th century, pre-independence 20th century and post-independence 20th century if you will. It should be possible to appreciate both Iqbal and Faiz without denigrating either. I certainly do.

Thanks - as ever, illuminating and thoughtful reflections.

As a footnote it is interesting that in recent years Faiz’s poems have been drawn upon in Coke Studio. There is, of course, nothing exceptional about his poems being put to song. But in recent years Coke Studio has made greater use of his words. In season 10, there was mujh se pahli si muhabbat, where the poet is saying that he can longer devote so much to his beloved as his energies are required for a ‘higher’ political struggle. There was bol as well, a more obvious political poem. Season 11 opened with hum dekhenge, a powerful revolutionary poem and poem of resistance. And this season, gulon main rang - a ghazal - which may appear at first sight to be a simple romantic poem, but in fact the beloved seems to stand for a political revolution.
 
Thanks - as ever, illuminating and thoughtful reflections.

As a footnote it is interesting that in recent years Faiz’s poems have been drawn upon in Coke Studio. There is, of course, nothing exceptional about his poems being put to song. But in recent years Coke Studio has made greater use of his words. In season 10, there was mujh se pahli si muhabbat, where the poet is saying that he can longer devote so much to his beloved as his energies are required for a ‘higher’ political struggle. There was bol as well, a more obvious political poem. Season 11 opened with hum dekhenge, a powerful revolutionary poem and poem of resistance. And this season, gulon main rang - a ghazal - which may appear at first sight to be a simple romantic poem, but in fact the beloved seems to stand for a political revolution.

Rabba Sacheya by Tina Sani, from Season 4 if memory serves me, was another, although Ustaad Daman may have found issue with that one for allegedly Urduized Punjabi...

The Coke Studio usage actually highlights something I was talking about in my last post. There’s an incongruity in a show bankrolled by a corporation featuring the work of a communist poet. We can interpret it two drastically different ways: the optimistic reading is that this is proof of his appeal transcending the much-maligned elite drawing rooms, since the show does have mass appeal. Alternately, it could pesimisstically be considered the sort of co-opting or hijacking I was referring to: does it prove he has been tamed and sanitized, the listener made to look past the communistic interpretation? After all, like you said, even his outwardly romantic poetry is inwardly political. While I enjoyed several of the CS renditions, they do make me wonder about this incongruity.

This conundrum isn’t exactly new, since even with Noor Jehan’s “Mujh Se Pehli Si Muhabbat,” the latter part of the poem lists exactly why the lover cannot devote himself to the beloved as before, and the reasons are explicitly political. Not many listeners remember much of that latter part of the poem.

The question remains: if a reader chooses to ignore the political in his poetry, or limits the understanding of the political to such sanitized appellations as social or humanistic, is that a disservice to the poet? To the reader themselves? Maybe it isn’t, because even if they appreciate much of it for the outwardly romantic aspect, does it not speak of the poet’s ability to transcend the divide between his ideology and that of the reader’s, if the reader does not see eye to eye with said ideology? Like so much in life, I don’t know.
 
As an aside, it is worth noting the Sialkot connection between Iqbal and Faiz: both attended Murray College, both had Professor Mir Hasan as a teacher, and because Faiz's father had risen from his humble origins to be a preeminent citizen of the city, he had briefly befriended Iqbal. If you ever happen across the reminiscences of the late Khaled Hasan (whose family fled Jammu for Sialkot), you'll find references to both poets, the Kashmiri community in that city, and the Scottish missionaries who ran Murray College. I don't know what state Murray College is in these days.

Iqbal and Faiz both also attended Government College Lahore, but then so did so many other literary luminaries. The Sialkot connection however is restricted to them.
 
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The question remains: if a reader chooses to ignore the political in his poetry, or limits the understanding of the political to such sanitized appellations as social or humanistic, is that a disservice to the poet? To the reader themselves? Maybe it isn’t, because even if they appreciate much of it for the outwardly romantic aspect, does it not speak of the poet’s ability to transcend the divide between his ideology and that of the reader’s, if the reader does not see eye to eye with said ideology? Like so much in life, I don’t know.

Personally, I am quite relaxed with people finding in art whatever is meaningful to them. In fact - as the great scholar of Urdu literature Ralph Russell noted - one of the strengths of the ghazal in particular is its universality. He quotes the South African author Olive Schreiner that true art provides ‘a little door that opens into an infinite hall where you may find what you please.’
 
Faiz’s poetry is very simple and approachable to the masses whereas Allama’s poetry seems to be written for the chosen few (those who have complete command on the language).
 
Personally, I am quite relaxed with people finding in art whatever is meaningful to them. In fact - as the great scholar of Urdu literature Ralph Russell noted - one of the strengths of the ghazal in particular is its universality. He quotes the South African author Olive Schreiner that true art provides ‘a little door that opens into an infinite hall where you may find what you please.’

That’s fair. I suppose we could just add the political to the layers of meaning Urdu professors drummed into our heads in college, namely the spiritual and the profane, the Haqiqi and Majaazi, that we were told to seek out in those torrid exegeses one had to pen for the works of classical poets.
 
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