Why are British Indians more successful than British Pakistanis?

[MenInG]

Very true, Pakistanis in the US are quite successful because they are not the defenders of Islam like in the UK. I visited Birmingham UK once and the amount of beehive beards and religious backwards ppl I saw there made it feel like a 3rd world country...

Bro - why say silly things like that? The amount of generalization in that post is sufficient to make you no less than the people you are talking about.

 

[SandyB]

^ this reminds me of the malayalam sitcom "Akkara kazhchakal" lol.

Yeah. That sitcom was a true depiction of the South India migrant experience.! This is how it actually works too .I have a few relatives who are nurses abroad, they all have similar stories to tell .

 

[Slog]

I read a similar thread a few months ago regarding US Indians vs Pakistanis.

Household income matters a lot in terms of financial success. These days both Husband and Wife have to work if you want to move up the ladder fast. I think Pak women do not work. I have not seen even 1 Pakistani women till now at work place and I worked in many cities. Saw Srilankan women and even Nepali ones. But not a single Pak woman.

There was one woman I met in Miami whose ancestors were from South India. They moved to US back in 1940's. Their family moved to Pak after Partition. Technically she is South Indian, but she considers herself as Pakistani heritage.

most pakistani women in US do work

but not in corporate america generally

medical/social work/ non profit route

or family run stores/ restaurants

 

[MenInG]

We prioritise money, education and survival above this "pursuit of Jannat".. /End of thread.

If you look at the majority of religious conservative Indians overseas, you'd realize that most are super wealthy or were migrants from richer Indian families. Whereas most middle class migrants ( techies, engineers and most South Indians) put religious/cultural adherence on the back-burner till they have really become well set .Simply because many aspects of those are counterproductive to their aspirations in the new country !

Many go back to religion/culture once they are in a kind of safe stable spot, which is why you find that a lot of the Hindutva supporters in the States are mostly middle/old aged, high earning Indians .

Let me give you an example how this works , my southern State of Kerala in India has some of the highest per capita rate of educated/skilled expats and migrants to US/Europe and the Middle east.

Before the IT boom the major area for migrants was Nursing/paramedical fields. It continues to be for women even now. Marrying a nurse was a sure-shot way of getting a chance to migrate to the EU or US or earn high salaries in the middle east .

But once you reach there , the nurse has to work long hours, so it becomes difficult for her to look after the kids/household. If both parents are working in many cases it becomes nearly impossible to focus on the children's education and upbringing . So many men give up their jobs and take up the "homemaker" duties, because that's the only way they can ensure that the household runs well and the kids are raised/looked after properly ! The woman earns considerably more than the man ever will , so that partner with the lesser earning job Quits.

Tell me how many men in Pakistan would even let your wife take up a job that pays more than you ? Let alone take up the homemaker job and let the women be the "breadwinner". Would their adherence to their culture/religion allow it ?


Mind you these Indian men (it's mostly a south Indian phenomenon) are the same kind of "Mards" who make the "aurat ki aukaat" statements back home. But at one stage they realize that for obtaining the optimal results for their children and family stability they have to make this compromise and put their ego on a leash .

Through these kind of life choices most Indian parents are able to focus maximum energy on the children, with very little impact on quality of life, and the kids get well eqiupped to take on the western educational system and achieve better .

Some would argue that Indians are blindly running after the US model of greed.

The off shore IT guys in India who work for me are the most miserable people I have come across. They are hard-workers but their lives are a mess.

Some of have their wife in a different state, cannot think of having children, forever trying to unite themselves by working in same city or country!

My wife had a top degree but chose to look after our kids and make them into well-rounded Muslim kids and send them to top medical schools in the UK. Does that make us less prominent Brits or anything else?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Bro - why say silly things like that? The amount of generalization in that post is sufficient to make you no less than the people you are talking about.

Bro,

I wasnt having a go or dig at you, however Pakistanis in the US are quite successful truth be told and they are not as religious..

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] how convenient that you forgot to mention Ben Kingsley and Freddie Mercury , the two absolute legends of their fields.
Oh and since we are talking of nobodies like Riz then we have Kunal Nayyer and Naveen Andrews.Dev Patel is of course a bigger star now a days.

no bias here

but riz is already bigger than kunal nayyar. (who is is india-US than any british connection anyway)

honestly dont even know abt naveen andrews. Dev patel hasnt kicked on but he's huge but i think Riz will surpass him

 

[SandyB]

In the US, the story is different - so many prominent positions being held in government and private sectors

Yes bhai, but one thing to note is that a lot of those powerful Indian politicians in the states are Indian Christians OR Christian converts . That help A LOT . Of course they stick to their "Indianness" and Indian culture enough to secure Indian community votes but the christian name ( Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, Kamala Harris, Joy Cherian) helps with the white votes in conservative states .

 

[TM Riddle]

no bias here

but riz is already bigger than kunal nayyar. (who is is india-US than any british connection anyway)

honestly dont even know abt naveen andrews. Dev patel hasnt kicked on but he's huge but i think Riz will surpass him

There's also Archie Punjabi who currently works in the good wife and has appeared in some movies too in past.

 

[Slog]

There's also Archie Punjabi who currently works in the good wife and has appeared in some movies too in past.

maybe

tbh i dont know much about british desi actors apart from those who have made it big globally

 

[Slog]

Yes bhai, but one thing to note is that a lot of those powerful Indian politicians in the states are Indian Christians OR Christian converts . That help A LOT . Of course they stick to their "Indianness" and Indian culture enough to secure Indian community votes but the christian name ( Bobby Jindal, Nikki Haley, Kamala Harris, Joy Cherian) helps with the white votes in conservative states .

arnt bobby jindal and nikki haley converts?

 

[SandyB]

Some would argue that Indians are blindly running after the US model of greed.

The off shore IT guys in India who work for me are the most miserable people I have come across. They are hard-workers but their lives are a mess.

Some of have their wife in a different state, cannot think of having children, forever trying to unite themselves by working in same city or country!

Indian IT companies back home are modern day sweatshops for slave labour ! Most hang on in the hope of H1B's which are the only ticket out. !

Since the IT industry is concentrated in only the Metros and Big cities (Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad, Kolkata, Delhi, Pune, Kochi ) etc , working in IT will involve moving to one of these cities. If your wife's in IT too most likely she'll get a different city to work in.

So one of you then end up (mostly the girl) sacrificing your career growth and take up smaller, cheaper IT positions in smaller companies , to accommodate your husbands career and the kids.

My wife had a top degree but chose to look after our kids and make them into well-rounded Muslim kids and send them to top medical schools in the UK. Does that make us less prominent Brits or anything else?

I did not criticize anyone's decision here. If you and your wife are contented with the choices you make for your family , why should anybody complain .

All I pointed out was that , in most Pakistani families (and many conservative North Indian families too ) the partner leaving the job will most likely be the women. But in the cases of Indian families (mostly middle class) the choice will rest purely on the Qualification and earning potential of the partner, be it husband or wife .

 

[SandyB]

arnt bobby jindal and nikki haley converts?

Yes. Bobby is of gujarati origin and Nikki Punjabi. Kamala is tamil , not sure if she was converted here or back home. Joy Cherian is a Kerala christian .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There's also Archie Punjabi who currently works in the good wife and has appeared in some movies too in past.

Archie Punjabi was in one major British film which was East is East, even that was a niche film which found moderate success. Before and after that she is relatively unknown.

 

[TM Riddle]

Archie Punjabi was in one major British film which was East is East, even that was a niche film which found moderate success. Before and after that she is relatively unknown.

I think she played the role of elder sister in bend it like Beckham and also one movie starring Brad Pitt name of which I cannot recall.

 

[bleaf27]

In the US, the story is different - so many prominent positions being held in government and private sectors

Might be more succesful when compared with British Pakistani's but again American-Pakistani still lag behind their Indo-American compatriots . I think a lot of reasons presented here would explain that to some extent

 

[JaDed]

Archie Punjabi was in one major British film which was East is East, even that was a niche film which found moderate success. Before and after that she is relatively unknown.

She won a Emmy award for Good wife ,seen even the GOT famous british actors long for it giving speeches what not.

 

[JaDed]

Riz might be good but he is defn not better than Kumail Nanjiani the guy's humor what truly sets him apart from other Pakistanis.

Also he got a movie with Ray Romano where he genuinely plays a Pakistani.

 

[JaDed]

Riz raps well though esp the sweat shop boys but defn he isn't funny.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

She won a Emmy award for Good wife ,seen even the GOT famous british actors long for it giving speeches what not.

When I said relatively unknown, I meant by the average Brit. I don't watch the Good Wife, with some cursory research seems like it is a US show. I think to be fair, there is some market for glamorous Indian female roles in American shows. Not sure what Archie's character is in that show, but there are at least three Bollywood starlets who have been able to break into the US entertainment business in glamorous roles. Indian Bollywood males on the other hand....I think Apu in the Simpsons is about as glamorous as it gets.

 

[Wave your flag]

90% of Pakistanis in UK came to the UK in the 1960s from Azad Kashmir to fill in the factory towns in the North West and North East. Hence had no real education, and this trend has been carried down to their generations after that. Which is why most of them still work in takeways, cabs, cash and carrys etc after the mills died in mill towns.

Can't the same be said about most Indians.

Workers mainly from the Punjab and Gujarat regions arrived from India in the late 1950s and 1960s. Many worked in the foundries of the English Midlands. Large numbers of Gujaratis worked in the textile manufacturing sector in the northwest industrial towns of Blackburn, Dewsbury, Bolton, Lancaster, Manchester and Preston. Sikhs coming to London either migrated to the East to set up businesses where the wholesale, retail and manufacturing elements of the textile industry were located. Many Sikhs also moved to West London and took up employment at Heathrow airport and the associated industries and in the plants and factories of major brands such as Nestle around it.

 

[Wave your flag]

I don't know about poverty and relative incomes but when I visited UK a few years back, it seems that the UK Pakistanis were still stuck in the Pakistan mode of 1970s-80s. When they donned desi clothing they were wearing styles that have long been out of fashion in Pakistan. The desis also seemed less integrated with the overall population and tended to cluster in parts of the city which were desi only. It also seemed to me that UK desis were more religiously inclined than North American desis.

I honestly blame the UK government for allowing this to happen, they allowed them to live in their own segregated communities.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually make that four Bollywood starlets, I forgot about Frieda Pinto who not only starred in Planet of the Apes, but is also a lead figure in the new British drama Guerilla which is about the black power movement in the '70s.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I honestly blame the UK government for allowing this to happen, they allowed them to live in their own segregated communities.

What would you have the British govt do? Force white people to stay in areas like Brixton or Southall?

 

[Wave your flag]

Freddie mercury is of Indian heritage? Didn't know that, he is arguably the best singer ever on the planet..

Biggest Uncle Tom ever.

 

[Wave your flag]

Art is the highest accomplishment of civilization, some would say. And people remember plenty of ordinary artists. Much more than your average engineer, doctor or businessman. Zayn Malik has a far higher chance of being remembered 200 years form now than Mian Muhammad Latif.

We know plenty of artists- great or mediocre- from 300 years ago. How many millionaires from 300 years ago do we remember ?

Lol zayn is hardly MJ or Bowie and he's not talented enough to remembered in 200 years.

 

[Wave your flag]

British Indians don't really have a reputation for being successful in the UK if truth be told. I have only ever seen this theory being presented on Pakistani forums like this one. British Indians are mostly invisible in British life as far as the general public is concerned.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dian-pupils-grades-GCSE-British-children.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../2013/feb/18/cameron-immigration-indians-good

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...sh-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/...reaches-highest-ever/articleshow/49618938.cms

 

[Wave your flag]

Some would argue that Indians are blindly running after the US model of greed.

The off shore IT guys in India who work for me are the most miserable people I have come across. They are hard-workers but their lives are a mess.

Some of have their wife in a different state, cannot think of having children, forever trying to unite themselves by working in same city or country!

My wife had a top degree but chose to look after our kids and make them into well-rounded Muslim kids and send them to top medical schools in the UK. Does that make us less prominent Brits or anything else?

So if it's your daughter with the medical degree. Would you think it's best for her after marriage to choose to look after her kids instead and give up on her career?

 

[mani1]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dian-pupils-grades-GCSE-British-children.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../2013/feb/18/cameron-immigration-indians-good

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...sh-Indians-a-remarkable-story-of-success.html

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/...reaches-highest-ever/articleshow/49618938.cms

Approximately 70% of Pakistani and Bengali women don't work.

Bengali's also do better in GCSE's than white British but are at the bottom of the poverty lists.

Afro Caribians are the least educated when it comes to GCSE's yet In London they are less likely to be in low pay than Indians.

Most of the super successfull Indians are Indian born.

 

[Wave your flag]

What would you have the British govt do? Force white people to stay in areas like Brixton or Southall?

This will sound controversial but ethinic minorities within the UK have been given toomuch freedom to do what they want particularly the Muslim communities, as in not to offend them.

Only recently has there been discussion that migrants need to be able to speak English and to integrate within the community.

In the USA everyone, no matter your background, has to integrate and you're American before anything else.

 

[Wave your flag]

More than anything I would love a premier league south Asian football star.

 

[big_gamer007]

Biggest Uncle Tom ever.

Huh wth does that even mean?

 

[mani1]

More than anything I would love a premier league south Asian football star.

Wont make much of a difference Zidane is an atg... Benzima, Nasri Adil Rami etc etc

Or in Germany Ozil Gundagan khadira Can etc yet look at how Turks and Arabs are viewed in them Countries

 

[Musakhel]

Indian Attitude to money is different, they have the 'baniya' stereotype for a reason, Pakistanies are more 'laparwah' people.

I think the concept of reincarnation dwell s in the back of their minds it took them millions of rebirths to reach the human status so best make it count.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This will sound controversial but ethinic minorities within the UK have been given toomuch freedom to do what they want particularly the Muslim communities, as in not to offend them.

Only recently has there been discussion that migrants need to be able to speak English and to integrate within the community.

In the USA everyone, no matter your background, has to integrate and you're American before anything else.

It doesn't sound controversial, it just sounds racist and somewhat stupid. Quite often the two go hand in hand. You didn't answer my question: What would you have the British govt do? Force white people to stay in areas like Brixton or Southall?

 

[Wave your flag]

It doesn't sound controversial, it just sounds racist and somewhat stupid. Quite often the two go hand in hand. You didn't answer my question: What would you have the British govt do? Force white people to stay in areas like Brixton or Southall?

How is what I said in anyway racist?

Unlike the Indian community, the Pakistani community is self-segregating and most are unwilling to integrate. How many Pakistani would allow they children to marry non-Pakistanis?

We need to improve integration, and it needs to involve the active participation of all Britons, not just Pakistanis.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How is what I said in anyway racist?

Unlike the Indian community, the Pakistani community is self-segregating and most are unwilling to integrate. How many Pakistani would allow they children to marry non-Pakistanis?

We need to improve integration, and it needs to involve the active participation of all Britons, not just Pakistanis.

In what way has the Indian community integrated in Southall? Do you need some pictures or did you see them already in a former life?

 

[Wave your flag]

In what way has the Indian community integrated in Southall? Do you need some pictures or did you see them already in a former life?

I'm sorry but we Pakistanis particularly in Northern England (the mirpuri AND punjabis) have failed to integrate and saddest thing is that we do not wish to integrate thanks mainly to the older generation.

I'm secondary school I wasn't allowed to hang out with white friends or bring them over to my house because they would spoil me and take me away from my culture. I was persuaded by my parents to stick with only other Pakistani girls. Now I'm at uni, still the same thing. So tell me how have we integrated? I would go as far to say we are the most segregated community in the UK, particularly up north since I've heard it's different in London etc.

British Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities are living segregated lives
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....g-integrate-wider-society-says-report-1502081

 

[Wave your flag]

I'm British Pakistani female btw if you're confused by the above post.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Dare I say if not for the early migrants from AK, Pakistanis would be neck be neck with the Indians in UK.

 

[mani1]

Dare I say if not for the early migrants from AK, Pakistanis would be neck be neck with the Indians in UK.

Dare I say if not for the Asylum seekers from Punjab Pakistanis would be neck an neck with Indians as they were before Uncle Tony came in to power.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How is what I said in anyway racist?

Unlike the Indian community, the Pakistani community is self-segregating and most are unwilling to integrate. How many Pakistani would allow they children to marry non-Pakistanis?

We need to improve integration, and it needs to involve the active participation of all Britons, not just Pakistanis.

This word is branded around but nobody can define what integration is.

Perhaps you can? What exactly do you mean by integrate? Do people need to start eating pork sandwiches for breakfast?

 

[shaz619]

This word is branded around but nobody can define what integration is.

Perhaps you can? What exactly do you mean by integrate? Do people need to start eating pork sandwiches for breakfast?

Yeah and drinking alcohol, going clubbing and having racist banter at the local pub; basically, it's what has ensured Moeen Ali's selection in the England cricket team despite coming from a deprived background in an inner city where only Pakistani's were allowed to communicate with each other.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah and drinking alcohol, going clubbing and having racist banter at the local pub; basically, it's what has ensured Moeen Ali's selection in the England cricket team despite coming from a deprived background in an inner city where only Pakistani's were allowed to communicate with each other.

Having ditched his Toyota Corolla for a new Ford Focus , brother Moeen has finally integrated.

Having read the posters comments again. I see this sentence followed the integration rant..."How many Pakistani would allow they children to marry non-Pakistanis? " It seems it's a personal issue of not being able to marry the person choosing. It's more of a personal family issue rather a general integration issue which I hope the poster can resolve. Love see's no boundaries

 

[Junaids]

This article highlights what every British-trained doctor - including myself - knows.

The inbreeding endemic in the British Pakistani problem gives the community a massive genetic disadvantage compared with the rest of the British population - including Indians.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-tackles-ethnic-taboo-costs-NHS-millions.html

In effect, a large part of the British Pakistani population practises Reverse Genetic Engineering to produce a generation which is genetically handicapped.

It's very sad. To the extent that for up to a quarter of British Pakistani couples, statistically their best chance of producing non-disabled children is marital infidelity.

 

[shaz619]

This article highlights what every British-trained doctor - including myself - knows.

The inbreeding endemic in the British Pakistani problem gives the community a massive genetic disadvantage compared with the rest of the British population - including Indians.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-tackles-ethnic-taboo-costs-NHS-millions.html

In effect, a large part of the British Pakistani population practises Reverse Genetic Engineering to produce a generation which is genetically handicapped.

It's very sad. To the extent that for up to a quarter of British Pakistani couples, statistically their best chance of producing non-disabled children is marital infidelity.

But you're not a GP or surgeon Junaids, you're a psychiatrist stop misusing your Dr label typical Manchester broad!

First cousin marriages were prominent amongst first generation British Asians and perhaps 2nd generation to an extent but they are no where near as frequent at present in fact it is incredibly disliked and those who do pursue such relations are ridiculed. They mostly occur in India and Pakistan though.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

This article highlights what every British-trained doctor - including myself - knows.

The inbreeding endemic in the British Pakistani problem gives the community a massive genetic disadvantage compared with the rest of the British population - including Indians.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-tackles-ethnic-taboo-costs-NHS-millions.html

In effect, a large part of the British Pakistani population practises Reverse Genetic Engineering to produce a generation which is genetically handicapped.

It's very sad. To the extent that for up to a quarter of British Pakistani couples, statistically their best chance of producing non-disabled children is marital infidelity.

Reverse genetic engineering?

Explain Iceland then. No not the supermarket, the country which is the most inbred nation on earth.

 

[Zak_Fan]

But you're not a GP or surgeon Junaids, you're a psychiatrist stop misusing your Dr label typical Manchester broad!

First cousin marriages were prominent amongst first generation British Asians and perhaps 2nd generation to an extent but they are no where near as frequent at present in fact it is incredibly disliked and those who do pursue such relations are ridiculed. They mostly occur in India and Pakistan though.

He has a point though. Unlike Pakistan where cousin marriages are a norm, such cases are extremely rare in India. While lesser number of British-Pakistanis may choose to continue the tradition in UK, it is quite likely that the damage has already been done with generations of inbreeding and subsequent genetic degradation.

 

[Slog]

Dare I say if not for the early migrants from AK, Pakistanis would be neck be neck with the Indians in UK.

Dare I say if not for the Asylum seekers from Punjab Pakistanis would be neck an neck with Indians as they were before Uncle Tony came in to power.

mirpuris have messed it up it seems

 

[shaz619]

He has a point though. Unlike India where cousin marriages are a norm, such cases are extremely rare in Pakistan. While lesser number of British-Indians may choose to continue the tradition in UK, it is quite likely that the damage has already been done with generations of inbreeding and subsequent genetic degradation.

I suppose you have a point as well

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This article highlights what every British-trained doctor - including myself - knows.

The inbreeding endemic in the British Pakistani problem gives the community a massive genetic disadvantage compared with the rest of the British population - including Indians.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-tackles-ethnic-taboo-costs-NHS-millions.html

In effect, a large part of the British Pakistani population practises Reverse Genetic Engineering to produce a generation which is genetically handicapped.

It's very sad. To the extent that for up to a quarter of British Pakistani couples, statistically their best chance of producing non-disabled children is marital infidelity.

I've always wondered about this, although not having a scientific background my knowledge is rudimentary. What if the inbreeding is between successful and intelligent couples? I do know a family which arrived from Uganda and they used to marry within, but they were high achievers and their offspring seem to be doing well too. Might it not just be the case that inbreeding in some parts of the world usually happens with genetically disadvantaged people to begin with?

In any case, it's a practice which was more in tune with Game of Thrones era than modern times, so I'm glad that this is looked down on in Britain anyway.

 

[SandyB]

He has a point though. Unlike Pakistan where cousin marriages are a norm, such cases are extremely rare in India. While lesser number of British-Pakistanis may choose to continue the tradition in UK, it is quite likely that the damage has already been done with generations of inbreeding and subsequent genetic degradation.

Cousin marriages in India aren't that rare everywhere. They are very common in Tamil Nadu and Kerala among non-brahmin Hindus. But that doesn't seem to have affected progress among those communities.

 

[mani1]

mirpuris have messed it up it seems

Have they? In the 80's and early 90's Pakistani's were neck and neck with Indians.

Now with the influx of Punjabi Asylum seekers fraudulent students and economical migrants from the EU Pakistani's are dropping considerably.

Also in London, Scotland, Huddersfield, Bolton, Manchester etc Punjabi's are the majority and they are scraping the bottom of the barrel along with Bengali's

Also Why are US and Canadian Paks and Pakistan itself so far behind India/ns

Does it seem like Punjab's have messed it up?

 

[Junaids]

I've always wondered about this, although not having a scientific background my knowledge is rudimentary. What if the inbreeding is between successful and intelligent couples? I do know a family which arrived from Uganda and they used to marry within, but they were high achievers and their offspring seem to be doing well too. Might it not just be the case that inbreeding in some parts of the world usually happens with genetically disadvantaged people to begin with?

In any case, it's a practice which was more in tune with Game of Thrones era than modern times, so I'm glad that this is looked down on in Britain anyway.

It depends upon specific genes to be honest. Some are dominant and some are recessive.

But to be honest, there is a Pakistani genetic holocaust in the UK.

If you think about it, third world countries with poor healthcare accept significant infant mortality as a fact of life. So did we in the UK as well until roughly the 1940's.

But the problem is that these disabled British Pakistani children survive now, and many will never be independent.

Like many things from pork to circumcision to virginity at marriage, the practice of marrying cousins made some sense in a primitive society with little money and no healthcare. It was a way to keep wealth within the family, and like those other practices I just listed which make no sense in the 21st century in advanced societies, it made the transition from being a custom to an item of pseudo-religious dogma.

But in a modern society in which children don't die, the inbreeding of first cousin marriage has created the Pakistani genetic holocaust in the UK.

I don't really believe that in this third and fourth generation of subcontinental settlement in the UK there is much to separate people of Indian and Pakistani settlement except for the fact that a huge proportion of the Pakistani population ruins its own genes by this primitive and dangerous custom.

 

[Junaids]

Reverse genetic engineering?

Explain Iceland then. No not the supermarket, the country which is the most inbred nation on earth.

Iceland has a limited genetic pool, but it doesn't have any practice of first cousin reproduction at all.

The problem in Iceland is accidentally marrying your fifth cousin in a nation with only 330,000 residents. But people are so keen to avoid this that they even use apps to check that they don't have shared ancestors before they go to bed.

 

[mani1]

Pakistani asylum seeker is jailed for attacking British wife he married to get a visa with a hammer (but judge REFUSES to deport him)

He claimed Akram fled Pakistan after his schizophrenic brother burned down the family home in Lahore, destroying a copy of the Quran in the process which enraged locals.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...um-seeker-beat-wife-hammer.html#ixzz4gUBQstvX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Junaids]

But you're not a GP or surgeon Junaids, you're a psychiatrist stop misusing your Dr label typical Manchester broad!

First cousin marriages were prominent amongst first generation British Asians and perhaps 2nd generation to an extent but they are no where near as frequent at present in fact it is incredibly disliked and those who do pursue such relations are ridiculed. They mostly occur in India and Pakistan though.

Maybe its changing with time, but not so long ago Bradford had more special school places for ages 11-16 than the whole of the rest of England. That's a terrifying thought.

 

[JaDed]

Inbreeding is being fought against here in TN since 6th grade of mine atleast,when they realized it was causing genetic issues.
It was btw normal for cousin marriages here but hardly anyone does that anymore,society has to create such environment for it to stop.

Although technically speaking with so much advancement in tech esp medical shouldn't this already be available to check if the two genes might mismatch,liking checking in advance.

 

[mani1]

It depends upon specific genes to be honest. Some are dominant and some are recessive.

But to be honest, there is a Pakistani genetic holocaust in the UK.

If you think about it, third world countries with poor healthcare accept significant infant mortality as a fact of life. So did we in the UK as well until roughly the 1940's.

But the problem is that these disabled British Pakistani children survive now, and many will never be independent.

Like many things from pork to circumcision to virginity at marriage, the practice of marrying cousins made some sense in a primitive society with little money and no healthcare. It was a way to keep wealth within the family, and like those other practices I just listed which make no sense in the 21st century in advanced societies, it made the transition from being a custom to an item of pseudo-religious dogma.

But in a modern society in which children don't die, the inbreeding of first cousin marriage has created the Pakistani genetic holocaust in the UK.

I don't really believe that in this third and fourth generation of subcontinental settlement in the UK there is much to separate people of Indian and Pakistani settlement except for the fact that a huge proportion of the Pakistani population ruins its own genes by this primitive and dangerous custom.

According to that study involving Bradford University White British women having kids over the age of 34 have the exact same risk of having disabled kids.

There are a lot more White British women having kids over 34 then there is Pakistani's marrying there first cousin.

 

[mani1]

Maybe its changing with time, but not so long ago Bradford had more special school places for ages 11-16 than the whole of the rest of England. That's a terrifying thought.

No it does not.

 

[Junaids]

According to that study involving Bradford University White British women having kids over the age of 34 have the exact same risk of having disabled kids.

There are a lot more White British women having kids over 34 then there is Pakistani's marrying there first cousin.

They are different types of disability, TBH.

You are right, western societies now are breeding generations of kids from "stale eggs". But the disabilities they cause are overwhelmingly at the mild end of the spectrum: subtle reading deficits, verbal processing deficits, etc.

Whereas my background lets me summarise the the horror of Bradford. (Remember, my dad was born in Dacca, and his best friend was a "West Pakistani" which is a large part of the reason why I frequent this site. That best friend is now a pensioner in Shipley, in Bradford).

Bradford has some of the worst complex and profound cases of disability that I have ever seen. And they cluster in families in which ten generations of first cousins have married one another. It's horribly sad.

 

[shaz619]

Pakistani asylum seeker is jailed for attacking British wife he married to get a visa with a hammer (but judge REFUSES to deport him)

He claimed Akram fled Pakistan after his schizophrenic brother burned down the family home in Lahore, destroying a copy of the Quran in the process which enraged locals.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...um-seeker-beat-wife-hammer.html#ixzz4gUBQstvX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

There was a Pakistani immigrant who posed as a cricket player with an FC contract with a leading county who forced his British Biwi to drink bleach etc someone posted an article about it as well. Anyhow no use singling out mirpuri's or punjab'i's

 

[mani1]

Also [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] the article you posted stated that the disability rate for Pakistani babies is as high as 20% in certain aareas. Well as per the 2011 cencus the population of Pakistani's in Bradford is 20%.

On a more terrifying not the very same article states Glasgow has an 18% disability rate for Pakistani babies yet Pakistani's only make 3.8% of the population.

 

[mani1]

There was a Pakistani immigrant who posed as a cricket player with an FC contract with a leading county who forced his British Biwi to drink bleach etc someone posted an article about it as well. Anyhow no use singling out mirpuri's or punjab'i's

Yep not to forget a certain "Urban" Pakistan wicket keeper wanting to claim in Asylum in the UK after making false claims

 

[shaz619]

Maybe its changing with time, but not so long ago Bradford had more special school places for ages 11-16 than the whole of the rest of England. That's a terrifying thought.

Maybe so but times have changed now , you won't find many British asians marring their cousins it's considered taboo. I have loads and all of them married folk they were acquainted with at work or university/college.

 

[mani1]

They are different types of disability, TBH.

You are right, western societies now are breeding generations of kids from "stale eggs". But the disabilities they cause are overwhelmingly at the mild end of the spectrum: subtle reading deficits, verbal processing deficits, etc.

Whereas my background lets me summarise the the horror of Bradford. (Remember, my dad was born in Dacca, and his best friend was a "West Pakistani" which is a large part of the reason why I frequent this site. That best friend is now a pensioner in Shipley, in Bradford).

Bradford has some of the worst complex and profound cases of disability that I have ever seen. And they cluster in families in which ten generations of first cousins have married one another. It's horribly sad.

Actually according to the same article London has the worst

Dramatic as this picture is, the true overall figures could be higher still, as our data does not include statistics from London’s Great Ormond Street, which deals with some of the most complex cases.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...c-taboo-costs-NHS-millions.html#ixzz4gUFAIjqr
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Zak_Fan]

Cousin marriages in India aren't that rare everywhere. They are very common in Tamil Nadu and Kerala among non-brahmin Hindus. But that doesn't seem to have affected progress among those communities.

I am aware of these states, but I was talking overall. As for the progress, work ethic and nurture will always trump not so major genetic disorders. But that does not mean that it is fine. With time, such defects accumulate in the genome, and in a matter of generations, they express themselves more often, and in scarier ways.

 

[Junaids]

Also [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] the article you posted stated that the disability rate for Pakistani babies is as high as 20% in certain aareas. Well as per the 2011 cencus the population of Pakistani's in Bradford is 20%.

On a more terrifying not the very same article states Glasgow has an 18% disability rate for Pakistani babies yet Pakistani's only make 3.8% of the population.

My friend, if my figures are out of date I apologise.

I think it's well known on this site that I have a real soft spot for Pakistan cricket that I've had since all the (clean shaven) players of the 1970's. I'm a bit horrified by the idea of any country having a state religion, and I wish that British Pakistanis would stop marrying their cousins so that their community can flourish and not pay the horrible cost of inbreeding.

But I have an obvious bias. I'm a typical non-religious Englishman, and I think that priests and clerics are the absolute least qualified members of society to tell anybody how to live their lives. So you have to filter my comments through that prism of my own disdain for religion!

 

[Junaids]

Maybe so but times have changed now , you won't find many British asians marring their cousins it's considered taboo. I have loads and all of them married folk they were acquainted with at work or university/college.

Which is fabulous news! Now we just need them to all marry people from different backgrounds and we will have a really enriched society!

 

[shaz619]

Which is fabulous news! Now we just need them to all marry people from different backgrounds and we will have a really enriched society!

It's the norm for British Pakistani men to marry English women, it's very frequent as they are very fond of them! There are also quiet a few who marry British Indian women as well, does that count? and in not so frequent cases but a growing number marry Jamaican women; my friend [MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] is married to a super fine Caribbean young lady as well! and my mom and dad were an example as well but back then it was extremely rare for such a relation to form. It's actually not extraordinary to find Brits off different backgrounds marry one another now which is why our society is the most enriched in the Universe! well you don't count, you're a Traitor; we will never forgive you for settling in Enemy territory

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] , that hurt.

Not calling me a traitor. But showing Michael Vaughan as an emoji, a guy from Eccles (Manchester) who played for Yorkshire. The guy must have been born in Hope Hospital, yet he moved to Sheffield. Unbelievable.

 

[mani1]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] , that hurt.

Not calling me a traitor. But showing Michael Vaughan as an emoji, a guy from Eccles (Manchester) who played for Yorkshire. The guy must have been born in Hope Hospital, yet he moved to Sheffield. Unbelievable.

Well can you blame him. Who wouldn't want to live in gods own Country.

 

[kaayal]

George Thekumuttil...

Thekumootil Insurance- Satisfaction guaranteed kutthu Definitely.

 

[TM Riddle]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] dude can you clarify whose side are you on? You don't seem Indian yet will never miss a chance to ridicule and expose the west punjabis(which makes for a hilarious reading btw,so more power to you)

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Iceland has a limited genetic pool, but it doesn't have any practice of first cousin reproduction at all.

The problem in Iceland is accidentally marrying your fifth cousin in a nation with only 330,000 residents. But people are so keen to avoid this that they even use apps to check that they don't have shared ancestors before they go to bed.

The entire Icelandic population originates from 4 or 5 Viking males and 4 Irish females over a thousand years ago. The fact that they have to have apps thousand years on to prevent accidentally marrying a "close cousin" is a testament to the incredible homogeneity of the gene pool... conventional dogma would suggest they ought to have died out by now... but it's not the case, they are healthy and very strong and have good life expectancy.

 

[CricketCartoons]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] dude can you clarify whose side are you on? You don't seem Indian yet will never miss a chance to ridicule and expose the west punjabis(which makes for a hilarious reading btw,so more power to you)

He is a legend. Forever lurking and posts the moment there is discussion on mirpuris or punjabis. Always comes armed with data.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=396]mani1[/MENTION] dude can you clarify whose side are you on? You don't seem Indian yet will never miss a chance to ridicule and expose the west punjabis(which makes for a hilarious reading btw,so more power to you)

I thought he was Indian as well at one point, but I think he's a genuine Mirpuri with a chip on his shoulder about Punjabis the size of a boulder. Justified in some ways, a lot of Punjabis do tend to look down on Mirpuris as backward in the same way Urdu speaking people tend to do the same with Punjabis. We both tend to look down on Urdu speakers as a bunch of namby pamby wimps. Such is Pakistani life where ethnic pride/stupidity is never far below the surface.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I thought he was Indian as well at one point, but I think he's a genuine Mirpuri with a chip on his shoulder about Punjabis the size of a boulder. Justified in some ways, a lot of Punjabis do tend to look down on Mirpuris as backward in the same way Urdu speaking people tend to do the same with Punjabis. We both tend to look down on Urdu speakers as a bunch of namby pamby wimps. Such is Pakistani life where ethnic pride/stupidity is never far below the surface.

You missed another important detail about the legendary video. My wife caught me watching it yesterday and was surprised that I love such songs.

 

[hafeezrocks]

mirpuris have messed it up it seems

Absence of an overwhelming Mirpuri population in the US and Canada is the reason why the North American Pakistanis are doing much better than the Brit Paks. Not that there is any problem with being from Mirpur, however the migrants from Mirpur to the UK in the 60s were mostly illiterates and conservative in their attitudes , which resulted in self segregation and them becoming stubborn to change with modern times.

 

[TM Riddle]

I thought he was Indian as well at one point, but I think he's a genuine Mirpuri with a chip on his shoulder about Punjabis the size of a boulder. Justified in some ways, a lot of Punjabis do tend to look down on Mirpuris as backward in the same way Urdu speaking people tend to do the same with Punjabis. We both tend to look down on Urdu speakers as a bunch of namby pamby wimps. Such is Pakistani life where ethnic pride/stupidity is never far below the surface.

You Pakistanis aren't alone in that regard.We Indians don't like each other either and rivalry between North and South is well known with southies trying their utmost to present themselves as more civilized and educated only to make a fool of themselves giving rise to many stereotypes attached with the Indians abroad.Guess it's more of a subcontinent thing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Absence of an overwhelming Mirpuri population in the US and Canada is the reason why the North American Pakistanis are doing much better than the Brit Paks. Not that there is any problem with being from Mirpur, however the migrants from Mirpur to the UK in the 60s were mostly illiterates and conservative in their attitudes , which resulted in self segregation and them becoming stubborn to change with modern times.

Agree bro, USA Pakistanis got the brains, Brit Paks got the brawn. Allah works in mysterious ways and we all have our parts to play. Yours is to compete with Indian nerds and get top jobs at Google and Merrill Lynch, ours is to do love jihad and provide pop idols for the masses.