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Why are so many people from Pakistani Punjab going as refugees to Greece (and then Europe)

Dozens hurt as brawl breaks out between Pakistani, Afghan migrants in Greece

MYTILENE, GREECE:
Over a dozen migrants were hurt Thursday in a brawl in the main detention camp on the Greek island of Lesbos that also saw nearly 30 tents torched, an AFP correspondent said.

Hundreds of people — mainly families with children — were evacuated from the camp during the night as rival groups of Afghans and Pakistanis went at each other with clubs and stones, the journalist said.

Refugees get Pakistani chef after protesting over ‘bad’ Italian food

Three of the injured — two Pakistanis and an Afghan — were hospitalised, two of them with head injuries.

Firemen intervene to extinguish a fire at the Moria migrant detention camp, on the island of Lesbos, following clashes between migrants early on June 2, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

“There was a clash between migrants from Afghanistan and Pakistan late Wednesday in which three people were seriously hurt and were taken to hospital by ambulance,” a local police source told AFP.

Government officials could not be reached for comment.

There were nearly 3,000 people in the Moria camp ahead of the clash, most of them asylum applicants trying to avoid deportation to Turkey under an EU deal that went into effect in March.

Nearly a thousand of them have now left, seeking refuge in the surrounding fields and in another migrant camp, the AFP correspondent said.

The spokesperson of the UN refugee agency’s mission to the island, Boris Cheshirkov, confirmed the incident but said the situation was “back to normal” on Thursday.

Lesbos Mayor Spyros Galinos said anxiety has increased among migrants detained for months and facing deportation to their home countries, which they have spent a small fortune to escape.

“These conditions are psychologically and physically exhausting… and breed exasperation,” he told AFP.

There are an estimated 8,500 refugees and migrants held in special-purpose facilities on Greek islands, where they landed earlier this year after crossing the Aegean from Turkey.

They are detained for a maximum of 25 days. After that point they are allowed to leave the camps but are required to stay on the islands until their asylum applications are processed.

Pakistani men arrested in Germany as 18 women report sex assaults

No migrants have been able to leave Greece after Balkan states began shutting their borders in February to stem an exodus of thousands to northern Europe.

As a result, over 50,000 people have become trapped in Greece, most of them in overcrowded camps where poor living conditions have frequently been criticised by rights groups.
Dawn


Pakistani govt should bring their citizens back, not a good PR for them
 
Dozens hurt as brawl breaks out between Pakistani, Afghan migrants in Greece


Dawn


Pakistani govt should bring their citizens back, not a good PR for them


They should be granted Assylum. Whatever they had they sold it and many take loans aswell to move abroad.

Government role is to prevent illegal human trafficking and they should work on that plus improve Economic situation of the country where 90 million people earn less than 30 dollars per month.

I wish & pray that these people are granted Assylum. Majority of them are
" Luttay Puttay "
 
Punjabis have an entrepreneurial spirit and they are sher-dil enough to risk anything in order to reach their goal. A mighty combination that leads them to suffer through hell towards a better life instead of staying at home and whining about discrimination.
 
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Punjabis have an entrepreneurial spirit and they are sher-dil enough to risk anything in order to reach their goal. A mighty combination that leads them to suffer through hell towards a better life instead of staying at home and whining about discrimination.
They seem to be going through hell anyway

Better to be realistic and improve their stock through Hardwork rather than always looking for jugaaru shortcuts which never come to fruition
 
They seem to be going through hell anyway

Better to be realistic and improve their stock through Hardwork rather than always looking for jugaaru shortcuts which never come to fruition

Better to work hard in places where hardwork takes you further.
 
Better to work hard in places where hardwork takes you further.
Be realistic.

An illegal is never making it big per se regardless of how hard they work (apart from some anomaly cases)

I met one Pakistani man in Italy who has been illegal for almost 7-8 years and working in a roadside doner kabab stall. Also met one in New York whose been there for 10+ years. Both seemed pretty unhappy with life and seemed to regret the decision to come illegally. In the Italian mans case the only thing stopping him from going back was his pride as his family seemed to think he is rolling in money in Milan.

Legal immigration is Ofcourse a different story but even that usually is a struggle unless you start off in a professional work space and are educated
 
Be realistic.

An illegal is never making it big per se regardless of how hard they work (apart from some anomaly cases)

I met one Pakistani man in Italy who has been illegal for almost 7-8 years and working in a roadside doner kabab stall. Also met one in New York whose been there for 10+ years. Both seemed pretty unhappy with life and seemed to regret the decision to come illegally. In the Italian mans case the only thing stopping him from going back was his pride as his family seemed to think he is rolling in money in Milan.

Legal immigration is Ofcourse a different story but even that usually is a struggle unless you start off in a professional work space and are educated

Some countries do award illegals amnesties and residencies after a while. That is the main hope for illegals and it is rare that someone lives as an illegal in the west for a decade without his situation getting normalized or getting deported.

Not saying it's an easy life but then neither is life easy in Pakistan for the vast majority in people. The opportunities they get as illegal in the west are not necessarily lower than those of a poor person in Pakistan.

It's easy to judge less fortunate people and wonder why they would leave Pakistan when one is themselves part of the plutocracy that has ruined the country in the first place.
 
Why they are leaving Pakistan? Well they want better future for themselves and their family and they believe Europe can provide them with that. They look at all the wealth and big houses the emigrants have build, talking about Gujrat and Kharian areas. They think that if other uneducated people from the village can do that why not us.

Poverty makes you do alot of crazy things and outsiders, I mean people who already are living good will struggle to understand that. People borrow money from relatives, neighbours, etc to get to Europe. You say they could have invested in Pakistan instead, well then most people will not borrow them because they think they will not get their money back from a guy doing business in Pak, but they think in Europe he will earn good and pay back the loans much quicker.

Remember even if you are not qualified you can easily earn upto 6000 Rupees a day working at fast food store here in Norway, this is absolute a minimum, so it is understandable they want to come to Europe, but what they dont know is that it is probably only 1 in 1000 who can make to Norway, but then again the poverty makes you keep trying.
 
HK has become the new destination for Pakistani illegal migrants in the past half decade.

Another 25 Pakistani illegal migrants including two women arrested as they entered HK waters from China.

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Argos and Athens, Greece - It's a rare day off for foreman Faisal Razza and his gang of Pakistani migrant farm workers. They normally work for 10 hours a day, seven days a week. But a heavy downfall and the end of the orange-picking season means that work is slow and today they have a chance to relax.

The seasonal nature of their work means they rarely stay in one place. For the past five months they have been working and living in the Argolis plain - a vast, flat expanse of orange fields surrounding the town of Argos, two hours' drive from Athens.

Soon they'll move on to another part of rural Greece to pick strawberries instead.

Located down a sodden track behind a graveyard, on the edge of the quiet village of Poullakida, is the house that Razza and his workers call home for now.

Half of it is an old metal cargo container, the other half a breeze block room with a corrugated iron roof. The once whitewashed walls are now stained dark brown. A small room at the back contains a filthy toilet and a rubber water pipe hanging from the ceiling - the shower.



Ten young Pakistani men sit huddled under tattered blankets, silently staring at their phones. The only source of light comes from the open doorway.

Outside three men are cooking chapatis for lunch. They don't have a cooker though, instead they light a fire in a metal drum lying on its side, disinfect the surface with salt water, and cook the flatbread directly on the metal.

Amir Ali, 25, from Gujrat, Pakistan tries to find humour in the situation. "This is like 19th century cooking," he chuckles. "In Pakistan we don't live like this, we'd use gas cookers."

One young migrant worker displays pictures on his phone of the family kitchen he left behind - complete with modern worktops and fitted with appliances. He glances at the flaming metal drum and forces a smile.

It is estimated that 90 percent of Greece's agriculture wage labourers are migrants. Farm work is often the only option for them when they arrive in the country without accommodation, money or legal status.

Razza's gang is one of four in the village of Poullakida visited by Al Jazeera. Along with the testimony of former workers - who are often more willing to speak openly - they paint a depressing picture of the exploitation and indignity of undocumented migrant labour in Greece.

Tricked and exploited

Adnan Ahmed, 20, worked for Razza for three months. A qualified nurse in Pakistan, he came to Europe hoping to find a better life. But once in Athens he found himself trapped by closed borders and without a bed or mone
y.


From left to right, Imran Ahmed, Adnan Ahmed and Faisal Razza in their house on the edge of Poullakida [Will Horner/Al Jazeera]
He explains that workers are lured to farms with the prospect of plentiful work and a place to stay.

"Before you arrive you are told that you'll be able to save a lot of money and send some to your family," he says. "They say there is a bed for you and food, and that you only need to pay some money for it."

Pakistani workers say they are paid 22 euros ($23.3) per 100 crates of oranges they fill, usually a day's work, but that the amount varies between nationalities, with Albanians receiving 28 euros ($29.6) for the same number of crates.

Newly arrived workers are often encouraged to recruit friends and relatives for which they are told they'll receive bonuses.

Charged 50 euros ($52.9) a month per person for their accommodation, and inflated amounts for food and even cigarettes, some workers soon find themselves in debt to their foreman.

"They tell you you must work to pay them back the money you owe them. But it is very difficult because they never pay you enough or give you enough work," says Naveed Ahmed (no relation to Adnan).


The building in which Faisal Razza and his workers live [Will Horner/Al Jazeera]
The 27-year-old pharmacist from Chenab Nagar, Pakistan, worked for a month for a different gang. Initially he was excited when told by a friend that there was a job and a house for him on a farm near Argos. But after a month's work he had received no money so he and three other men asked their foreman for permission to leave.

"[The foreman] and two big guys locked me and my friends in our room," he says. "He said that because one of my friends owed him money we all had to pay his debt or we wouldn't leave."

Naveed says he and the other men were held for four days. When they needed the toilet they were escorted by two of the men who had locked them in, to prevent them from escaping. One worker managed to run away and pawned his phone to pay for the bus back to Athens.

As Naveed quietly recounts the details, his hands begin to shake. Eventually he and the others were released after a friend in Athens paid the debt.

'Where is this Europe?'

Few workers say they actually receive any of the money they are owed, but they choose to stay for lack of a better option and in order to avoid arrest and deportation.

Adnan Ahmed says that after three months he received none of the 300 euros ($318) he was owed. Other workers say they receive small amounts, just a fraction of their total wages.



Workers in the area of Poullakida live in a variety of dirty and cramped out-buildings, warehouses and makeshift structures for which they each pay rent of between 30 euros ($31.7) and 50 euros ($52.9) a month to the local owner of the property.

"In Pakistan, even our farm animals live better than we do in Greece," says Adnan Ahmed.

With some holding up to 30 workers in rows of cramped bunk beds, the owners can make huge profits. In most cases workers pay the rent to the foreman, who in turn pays the property owner. But some workers suggested that their foremen were inflating the price-per-person in order to take their own cut.

In the dilapidated building where he and his workers live, Faisal Razza occupies a commanding position at the back of the room on the highest bunk bed.

Though just 19, Razza carries himself with the confidence of a much older man. Having left Pakistan after a violent argument made him fear for his safety, he travelled alone to Greece as a teenager.

He picked up the local language quickly as a fruit picker. After just one year he won his bosses' favour and progressed to foreman. Now he is dating the daughter of an Albanian gangmaster. He says he hopes to marry her.


Razza, who sleeps with his wallet under his pillow, told Al Jazeera that he pays all his workers a fair amount and that they were all free to leave whenever they wanted. But he declined to answer specific questions.

Many workers left behind profitable jobs in other countries to travel to Europe. "I lived in Malaysia for 10 years and had good work as an electrician," says Imran Ahmed, the cousin of Adnan Ahmed. "Then one day my friend called me from Germany and said that the border was open and that I should come to Europe."

Imran speaks fluent Malay but now finds himself stuck in a country with no money, legal status or common language. "Of course it's the biggest regret of my life," he says.

Mujahid, a Pakistani worker from a different gang in Poullhakida, used to work in a shop in Saudi Arabia and earned 1,500 euros ($1,586) a month, which he considered good money. Now he says he earns about 20 euros ($21.2) a day, but is seldom paid his wages.

"My life in Saudi Arabia was so much better than Europe," he says. "I thought Europe was a good place for hard workers. Now I wonder, 'where is this Europe?'"

'They have no rights'

For close to a decade, Greece has experienced an economic and social crisis of unparalleled proportions for an advanced economy in peacetime conditions; the Greek economy has collapsed, living standards have plummeted, and unemployment and child poverty is endemic. The country has been subjected to severe austerity meaures and has struggled to cope with an unprecedented influx of refugees.

Yet, amid wider economic strife, Greek agriculture has profited in recent years.

Greek farming faced a labour shortage in the 1990s, but migration from Eastern Europe and South Asia has saved Greek agriculture, says Professor Charalambos Kasimis, the general secretary of the Greek Ministry of Agriculture.

READ MORE: Dimitris Christoulas: Revisiting a Greek suicide

"Agriculture…has become the most dynamic sector in terms of exports, in terms of employment," says Kasimis. "We can see, for example, the exports of our agricultural products have increased rapidly over the past years of the crisis."

But despite the important role migrant workers have played over the years, they remain at risk of exploitation.

"Pakistani, Bangladeshi [workers] are here illegally, without families and naturally their status is lower in terms of wages, resident status and of course the issue of rights - they have no rights," says Kasimis.

On March 30, the European Court of Human Rights ruled in favour of a group of Bangladeshi strawberry pickers over an incident in 2013in which they were shot at by their employer.


The refugee crisis and the Greeks: One year on
The group of migrant workers in the southern town of Manolada, who lived in similar conditions to those interviewed by Al Jazeera and worked under armed guard, had confronted their employer about unpaid wages. One foreman opened fire on the group, injuring 35 people, four of them critically.

A Greek court initially cleared two of the foremen, including the farm owner. Two others were sentenced to 14 years and eight years in prison, but were freed pending an appeal. The farm owner was ordered to pay the workers 43 euros ($46) each.

The court's decision now orders Greece to pay damages of 12,000-16,000 euros (roughly $12,750-$17,000) plus costs to each worker for having failed in its obligation to prevent human trafficking, forced labour and "to protect the victims, to conduct an effective investigation into the offences and punish those responsible".

"We are very pleased and excited by today's judgment," said Morsed Chowdury, the lead applicant in the case. "We hope that the Greek government will learn from our experiences and recognise our important role in the Greek economy."

The Greek government last year introduced a voucher system whereby undocumented workers can receive a fair wage and some employment rights, without having to worry about their undocumented status. However, its use has been limited, particularly as employers using it would be required to pay the minimum wage, which few do.

Kasimis hopes that the scheme will be more successful this year.

He admits, however, that it is a temporary solution to the problem and what is ultimately needed is new legislation to regularise undocumented migrants, something he claims is currently "impossible".

"First, because the EU is opposed to such regularisation programmes," says Kasimis. "And [because] it is also politically sensitive [in Greece]."

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...face-exploitation-greece-170325065743630.html
 
How stupid are these people?!?!

Desperation plus stupidity ,many people think that Europe is Europe of 20th century .Its lack of research but tbh that is almost a given for people in South Asia.
 
Pakistani refugees here in Hong Kong live in dilapidated buildings and tin houses with farm-like living conditions but that does not deter any more of Pakistani refugees from coming here. They are making very good money working in construction and also thru illegal activities.

HK is also being flooded by Indian and Bangladeshi refugees.
 
Pakistani refugees here in Hong Kong live in dilapidated buildings and tin houses with farm-like living conditions but that does not deter any more of Pakistani refugees from coming here. They are making very good money working in construction and also thru illegal activities.

HK is also being flooded by Indian and Bangladeshi refugees.

Milton freedman famous saying "illegal immigration only helps as long as it is illegal".
 
i know a lot of people have the mentality that they think that the West is just filled with streets of Gold but when a lot of these guys come from Pakista. with little education or education that is of no value in the U.K or Germany they fall into working in takeaways where they are underpaid or factories while some after a while become taxi drivers.

For a lot of families that have relatives in the West especially those from villages they want to keep the gravy train going of having money sent to them. So they try get one of their siblings to give them a rishta for their son or daughter so that they can get more of the cake.

Especially when they see that their sibling or cousin coming from abroad and building big kotiya and living like Nawabs. It gets people jealous.
 
How stupid are these people?!?!

They are not stupid.

All the movies, tv shows etc we see along with the things we hear about western countries makes us believe that the west is a magical land where everyone earns buckets of money everyday and spend 90% of their life vacationing and having fun. The people who migrated didn't know better, they thought that they'd live the life they always wanted to and nothing could stop them from having their dream fulfilled. I have had some family members who have done the same and are now back in Pakistan.

This is what I hate about Pakistan. People here are not willing to work hard and honestly in Pakistan but are willing to slave away their lives in a western country. Every single person in Pakistan has taken the country for granted. The typical argument is that why should I work hard and honestly when no one else does, but this is just a lousy excuse, if every individual did their part then we wouldn't be such a pathetic country today.

My audit teacher gave me an example of his friend who was an Auditor in Pakistan. According to my sir his friend spent majority of his life in Pakistan working as an auditor and during his time we signed countless wrong audit reports and he wasn't ashamed of it but the moment he immigrated to England, he started to work honestly and stopped the malpractices without any external influence. The body the governs audits in Pakistan is as, if not more strict than the one in England. This is the typical case of Pakistanis who think that Pakistan is their baap kee jayedaad and they can do whatever the want here.
 
No sympathy for these kind of people. If Greece knows they are from Pakistan they should be deported back. They should be deported because of their stupidity alone.
 
It's ridiculous and kind of sad really, these poor and uneducated people are delusional and their life is basically dependent on what the "damage limitation" is like after getting to Europe and finding out it isn't what it was meant to be. Some can recover by abusing the system but most lose money and either get deported have live a terrible life working in a corner shop for as long as possible.

I doubt anything will be done to get rid of this myth about the Western countries and how they will throw money at anyone who wants to get in, and many more people will fall into this trap. Simply absurd.
 
They are not stupid.

All the movies, tv shows etc we see along with the things we hear about western countries makes us believe that the west is a magical land where everyone earns buckets of money everyday and spend 90% of their life vacationing and having fun. The people who migrated didn't know better, they thought that they'd live the life they always wanted to and nothing could stop them from having their dream fulfilled. I have had some family members who have done the same and are now back in Pakistan.

This is what I hate about Pakistan. People here are not willing to work hard and honestly in Pakistan but are willing to slave away their lives in a western country. Every single person in Pakistan has taken the country for granted. The typical argument is that why should I work hard and honestly when no one else does, but this is just a lousy excuse, if every individual did their part then we wouldn't be such a pathetic country today.

My audit teacher gave me an example of his friend who was an Auditor in Pakistan. According to my sir his friend spent majority of his life in Pakistan working as an auditor and during his time we signed countless wrong audit reports and he wasn't ashamed of it but the moment he immigrated to England, he started to work honestly and stopped the malpractices without any external influence. The body the governs audits in Pakistan is as, if not more strict than the one in England. This is the typical case of Pakistanis who think that Pakistan is their baap kee jayedaad and they can do whatever the want here.

This is very true.
Reminds me of a Canadian-Pakistani women who was called out for jumping queue at one of Pakistan's airport and said 'Pakistan may bhi line lagai gay toh kya faida.' This incident was caught on tape.
 
They are not stupid.

All the movies, tv shows etc we see along with the things we hear about western countries makes us believe that the west is a magical land where everyone earns buckets of money everyday and spend 90% of their life vacationing and having fun. The people who migrated didn't know better, they thought that they'd live the life they always wanted to and nothing could stop them from having their dream fulfilled. I have had some family members who have done the same and are now back in Pakistan.

This is what I hate about Pakistan. People here are not willing to work hard and honestly in Pakistan but are willing to slave away their lives in a western country. Every single person in Pakistan has taken the country for granted. The typical argument is that why should I work hard and honestly when no one else does, but this is just a lousy excuse, if every individual did their part then we wouldn't be such a pathetic country today.

My audit teacher gave me an example of his friend who was an Auditor in Pakistan. According to my sir his friend spent majority of his life in Pakistan working as an auditor and during his time we signed countless wrong audit reports and he wasn't ashamed of it but the moment he immigrated to England, he started to work honestly and stopped the malpractices without any external influence. The body the governs audits in Pakistan is as, if not more strict than the one in England. This is the typical case of Pakistanis who think that Pakistan is their baap kee jayedaad and they can do whatever the want here.
well id call believing that the very definition of being stupid and naive :))
 
This reminds me of a conversation I had with my cousin in Lahore. He was telling me his dream is to come to the UK and he doesn't care about getting an education or anything in Pakistan. He said he would rather wash dishes in some restaraunt in the UK than live in Pakistan. He seemed to think that once he arrives in the UK that his life will change and everything will be amazing.

I explained to him that it's not as simple as that and that it can be hard here too but he seemed to get offended and angry. He said to me "khud UK bethay ho or humain rok rahay ho". It makes me believe that even if the situation is explained to these people they just won't believe you. They think that you don't want them to be successful.
 
This reminds me of a conversation I had with my cousin in Lahore. He was telling me his dream is to come to the UK and he doesn't care about getting an education or anything in Pakistan. He said he would rather wash dishes in some restaraunt in the UK than live in Pakistan. He seemed to think that once he arrives in the UK that his life will change and everything will be amazing.

I explained to him that it's not as simple as that and that it can be hard here too but he seemed to get offended and angry. He said to me "khud UK bethay ho or humain rok rahay ho". It makes me believe that even if the situation is explained to these people they just won't believe you. They think that you don't want them to be successful.

This is very true. I had a similar conversation with a guy in a shop in Pakistan and he said that in the UK you don't have to work, you can just press a button and a machine does everything for you. This while he was lying doing nothing on a manji claiming to be too ill to work so his son was doing all the running around. The level of ignorance was astounding. That was some time ago I should say, but I doubt that much has changed in the general perception that you are made once you hit Europe.
 
This is very true. I had a similar conversation with a guy in a shop in Pakistan and he said that in the UK you don't have to work, you can just press a button and a machine does everything for you. This while he was lying doing nothing on a manji claiming to be too ill to work so his son was doing all the running around. The level of ignorance was astounding. That was some time ago I should say, but I doubt that much has changed in the general perception that you are made once you hit Europe.

I think more pakistanis should speak out regarding their experiences. I once had a chat with a guy who was working in a take away and he wasn't happy at all. His family thought he was living the dream but he was finding it tough and wanted to go back to Pakistan. I told him why don't you just go back then? He said because it will be a shame to him if he goes back and he will have no izzat left. I didn't really understand why he felt like that but maybe it's because I'm not in that position. Hope it worked out for that guy
 
[MENTION=142303]gkb101277867[/MENTION]. Yeah ive experienced this too my cousins who came from my Pakistan have told their siblings trust me life is a dogs life. try to make something out of your life in Pakistan. But they have the same attitude thinking U.K is filled with streets of Gold. All they see is their brother building a koti and giving them lavish allowances not knowing he works 12 hours a day to do that.
 
It's ridiculous and kind of sad really, these poor and uneducated people are delusional and their life is basically dependent on what the "damage limitation" is like after getting to Europe and finding out it isn't what it was meant to be. Some can recover by abusing the system but most lose money and either get deported have live a terrible life working in a corner shop for as long as possible.

I doubt anything will be done to get rid of this myth about the Western countries and how they will throw money at anyone who wants to get in, and many more people will fall into this trap. Simply absurd.


A pharmacist has 17 years of Education including 5 years of University education of hardcore Life Sciences studies.
 
And these same guys when they go back for holidays pretend as if they are the richest guys around...
I swear. The people living abroad when at home literally try their very best to prove that they are living a luxurious life and have it better, this in turn reinforces the illusion that streets in the west are made of gold.

This again comes down to the overly talkative nature of Pakistanis where every action of an individual is scrutinized and talked about in the entire family sector.
 
I swear. The people living abroad when at home literally try their very best to prove that they are living a luxurious life and have it better, this in turn reinforces the illusion that streets in the west are made of gold.

This again comes down to the overly talkative nature of Pakistanis where every action of an individual is scrutinized and talked about in the entire family sector.

pakistanis abroad are stubborn folk

even when theyre struggling and in the pits theyd want to project an image as if they are rolling in cash
 
Something similar happened to one of my cousins. About 3 years ago I got a random call from my uncle from India asking how I was getting on (I have been living in the UK for about 15 years now). I thought it was a bit random as I hardly know him well. He is super wealthy back in India as he owns a granite business. He called me again and this time he came straight to the point - his son wants to come to the UK for studies and asked me for advice. I asked him for the details to which he replied he does not know and better speak to the son directly.

My cuz then called and I asked him which uni, what course etc and he said some random college in Birmingham I had never heard of and the course was a certificate in accountancy and told me that his friend was doing the same course. I told him not to bother and said these are mostly scams and the certificate is useless so he won't be able to get a job with it and also told him that he might not even get a visa for a course like that. Told him he is either better off in India or to apply for a good course from a recognised uni in the UK. He started to attack me and said he had a friend there who is doing very well and if even someone like me can get a job then why can't he? (I have a Chem Eng degree from Heriot Watt). I wished him luck and told him not to bother me anymore.

He got the Visa, came to the UK, never attended classes (I am not even sure if that college existed in reality), flat-shared with 5 other students including his friend, picked up a heavy drinking habit and spunked most of the money his dad had given him within 3 months so took up a part time job in Tk-Maxx. He started dating a Romanian girl who worked with him and she promptly relieved him of all the rest of his money and did one. He lived in squalor for another year and milked his dad for as much as he could and even I sent him some money a couple of times but he lost it all on strippers and casinos.

Next time I went back to India, I made it a point to have a word with the boy’s mum about everything and within a couple weeks he was summoned back home. I met him this time when I went back and we caught for some drinks and had a long chat. He told me how he was dazzled by Europe and how he could get everything he wanted like women, drinks, easy access to expensive mobiles and laptops bought on contracts and credit cards and how he was egged by the jealously of his friends back home who saw his FB photos flaunting his haul. He thanked me for what I did and said he would have been ruined if he had not returned back on time and he has now fallen out with his friend.

Sorry for the really long post but if someone like my cuz who is from a wealthy family is lured into coming to Europe then imagine what the poorer people are going through in their mind after hearing about these stories of untold riches and a life of luxury which is not entirely true.
 
This is very true. I had a similar conversation with a guy in a shop in Pakistan and he said that in the UK you don't have to work, you can just press a button and a machine does everything for you. This while he was lying doing nothing on a manji claiming to be too ill to work so his son was doing all the running around. The level of ignorance was astounding. That was some time ago I should say, but I doubt that much has changed in the general perception that you are made once you hit Europe.

Lot of people in my family that could not clear school in India think the same,that Brits can't calculate small numbers and use calculators and thereby not that smart.
 
Something similar happened to one of my cousins. About 3 years ago I got a random call from my uncle from India asking how I was getting on (I have been living in the UK for about 15 years now). I thought it was a bit random as I hardly know him well. He is super wealthy back in India as he owns a granite business. He called me again and this time he came straight to the point - his son wants to come to the UK for studies and asked me for advice. I asked him for the details to which he replied he does not know and better speak to the son directly.

My cuz then called and I asked him which uni, what course etc and he said some random college in Birmingham I had never heard of and the course was a certificate in accountancy and told me that his friend was doing the same course. I told him not to bother and said these are mostly scams and the certificate is useless so he won't be able to get a job with it and also told him that he might not even get a visa for a course like that. Told him he is either better off in India or to apply for a good course from a recognised uni in the UK. He started to attack me and said he had a friend there who is doing very well and if even someone like me can get a job then why can't he? (I have a Chem Eng degree from Heriot Watt). I wished him luck and told him not to bother me anymore.

He got the Visa, came to the UK, never attended classes (I am not even sure if that college existed in reality), flat-shared with 5 other students including his friend, picked up a heavy drinking habit and spunked most of the money his dad had given him within 3 months so took up a part time job in Tk-Maxx. He started dating a Romanian girl who worked with him and she promptly relieved him of all the rest of his money and did one. He lived in squalor for another year and milked his dad for as much as he could and even I sent him some money a couple of times but he lost it all on strippers and casinos.

Next time I went back to India, I made it a point to have a word with the boy’s mum about everything and within a couple weeks he was summoned back home. I met him this time when I went back and we caught for some drinks and had a long chat. He told me how he was dazzled by Europe and how he could get everything he wanted like women, drinks, easy access to expensive mobiles and laptops bought on contracts and credit cards and how he was egged by the jealously of his friends back home who saw his FB photos flaunting his haul. He thanked me for what I did and said he would have been ruined if he had not returned back on time and he has now fallen out with his friend.

Sorry for the really long post but if someone like my cuz who is from a wealthy family is lured into coming to Europe then imagine what the poorer people are going through in their mind after hearing about these stories of untold riches and a life of luxury which is not entirely true.

Sadly common,esp these fake unis
 
Most of the Punjabi's (both Indian and Pakistani) and bangladeshis own a souvenir shop in the Europe more than the locals themselves.

They were very helpful whenever we were in search of halal food and looking for directions. Will never forget that Pakistani guy who directed us to a Kebab shop in Barcelona....
 
A pharmacist has 17 years of Education including 5 years of University education of hardcore Life Sciences studies.

Uneducated in the sense that in they have done next to no research about the reality they will face when they go these supposed amazing western countries and foolishly assume that everything will be full of sunshine and rainbows.
 
Some excerpts from the article

Unlike others who are locked in a detention facility a few kilometres away, these young, mostly Pakistani, men spend days sitting on a hillside overlooking the sea playing Bhabhi (a card game) or volleyball.

During the cool nights, they gather around a fire and sometimes sing Pakistani songs.
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"My hair turned white due to the tension," explained Ijaz, a 38 year-old father from Gujrat. The sole provider for his family (including two small boys, wife and elderly parents), he sold his family home to pay for the dangerous journey from Pakistan through Iran, Turkey and then by sea on small flimsy rubber boats to Greek islands like Lesbos.

Sitting on the rocks by the seaside, Ijaz told me: "I am a very poor man. My children have no good education, good clothes or good food."

He covered his face with his hands, then looked at me forlornly. Like many others, he has lost hope. He is terrified to be deported back to Turkey, neither a safe country nor an easy place to find decent employment.
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Nineteen-year-old Omar who was in his second semester of studying electrical engineering at Gujrat University when he decided to leave Pakistan three months ago. After a long journey, he arrived in Greece, but he was too late. The Balkan route had already closed and he, like more than 50,000 other migrants, is now stranded. Although he has brothers working on another Greek island, Greek authorities are not permitting migrants to board ferries or planes to reach other parts of Greece. He said that, "a lot of people cry here for many reasons."
Ijaz, 38, a labourer who is the main provider for his family, including his wife and two young sons and his elderly parents, sold his house to finance the trip to Europe. "I am a very poor man. My children have no education, good food or clothes." Now his dreams of lifting his family out of poverty has been dashed. "I'd rather die than be sent back to Turkey," he said.
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Hassan from Lahore, who spoke to me by telephone from inside the detention center, recounted how he was kidnapped in Istanbul. He told me that an Afghan man offered to help him find accommodation. The accommodation ended up being a basement apartment, where he was beaten and held for ransom, until more than a month later, his family paid 3,000 euros in ransom.
 
Judging by the latest news they are travelling from Punjab to Libya now too.
 
https://www.dawn.com/news/1251418/i...kistani-migrants-prefer-greeces-hellish-camps

Another photo feature

Some of these stories are so tragic. Quite a few university students from Punjab (particularly Gujrat) sold all their family's belongings for this misadventure and now not just them but their families back home are paying the price

They are obviously misinformed about the risk and reward of travelling to Europe. I find it hard to believe they would travel if they knew the dangers involved. I know it sounds callous, but the 90 who died in the seas travelling to Italy this week might at least have some good come out of it if people in Pakistan become aware that there is every chance of coming to a similar end when they choose this path.
 
I thought Sharifs had turned Punjab into a first world country and if the rest of the traitor Pakistanis give them a chance they will turn all of Pakistan into an Asian tiger. Obviously this is yet another sazish by establishment and judiciary.
 
This kind of emigration is beneficial, as there is no wealth or brain drain.

I know people will pretend to be disgusted by such a response, but it's probably quite close to the official response from the Pakistan govt. Someone asked why there wasn't a program to raise awareness of dangers in the home countries and you have given a very plausible reason why not.
 
This kind of emigration is beneficial, as there is no wealth or brain drain.

how though?

often they are the breadwinners of the family and since they are gone there are 5-6 hungry mouths left to feed.
 
how though?

often they are the breadwinners of the family and since they are gone there are 5-6 hungry mouths left to feed.

They are not among the most skilled, educated or the wealthy, taking their skills and wealth abroad. The country doesn't lose anything, in fact gains when such population emigrates. The problem is when the skilled and the wealthy from poor countries migrate to developed nations.
 
how though?

often they are the breadwinners of the family and since they are gone there are 5-6 hungry mouths left to feed.

I doubt they are the breadwinners, otherwise who is feeding the kids in their absence? Usually it will be one son from a family that might go, there would probably be others left behind to look after the wife and kids. Which makes it even more stupid venture, if they used that money spent on the trip at home instead, they could probably make a living anyway.
 
Influx of Pakistani refugees into Hong Kong has significantly decreased after Chinese consulates in Pakistan stopped issuing visas to Pakistanis.
 
I thought Sharifs had turned Punjab into a first world country and if the rest of the traitor Pakistanis give them a chance they will turn all of Pakistan into an Asian tiger. Obviously this is yet another sazish by establishment and judiciary.

I am shocked when I hear people talking about how progressive and prosperous Punjab has become due to the PML-N. The last time I visited Punjab, all I saw was rubbish piled on roadsides, sewage lines overflowing with human waste, rampant poverty and pathetic infrastructure. In fact, when in comes to development, I would say Azad Kashmir, particularly Mirpur, is miles ahead of Punjab.
 
This influx is due to the chola sandal walas of Arabia deporting Pakistani workers , withholding wages , detentions , executions , interrogations due to terrorism and Indian lobby

Also another factor is punishment for our army shaan heroes not sending troops to Yemen or helping Saudi Neanderthal royal family in syria and Yemen .

Gcc was the biggest market where Pakistani workers favoured going, found work easily and sent key remittances home which improved the quality of life for relatives in Pakistan , but that has now been squeezed .

There is no option we need cpec to be delivered like what it was stated to be and we need that gas pipeline from Iran , the energy needs need to be met so our industry can fire up and the masses can find employment instead of risking everything for a pipe dream in Europe
 
I am shocked when I hear people talking about how progressive and prosperous Punjab has become due to the PML-N. The last time I visited Punjab, all I saw was rubbish piled on roadsides, sewage lines overflowing with human waste, rampant poverty and pathetic infrastructure. In fact, when in comes to development, I would say Azad Kashmir, particularly Mirpur, is miles ahead of Punjab.

Punjab is many things but it never was nor currently is progressive. It's one of the most backward, right wing holes on the face of the planet. In that sense, PML-N well and truly is representative of the people of Punjab so I don't see why people get surprised when PML-N gets elected from there.
 
Punjab is many things but it never was nor currently is progressive. It's one of the most backward, right wing holes on the face of the planet. In that sense, PML-N well and truly is representative of the people of Punjab so I don't see why people get surprised when PML-N gets elected from there.

Agreed. The extremism views among Pakistani youths including university graduates is truly shocking. Heck, even Pakistani women are not far behind Pakistani men when it comes to religious extremism and moral policing.

I regularly see Pakistani women shaming female Pakistani celebrities for spreading vulgarity and wearing western clothing on social media. This sort of mindset among Pakistani women was uncommon or maybe it was there all along and now due to the advent of social media has come to the forefront.

Pakistan is collapsing under its own weight of extremism, overpopulation, injustice and unemployment.
 
Agreed. The extremism views among Pakistani youths including university graduates is truly shocking. Heck, even Pakistani women are not far behind Pakistani men when it comes to religious extremism and moral policing.

I regularly see Pakistani women shaming female Pakistani celebrities for spreading vulgarity and wearing western clothing on social media. This sort of mindset among Pakistani women was uncommon or maybe it was there all along and now due to the advent of social media has come to the forefront.

Pakistan is collapsing under its own weight of extremism, overpopulation, injustice and unemployment.

Perhaps that is why you get progressive Punjabis spending their money on trying to reach the west then, unfortunately drowning in Italian waters due to badly planned journeys with unforeseen difficulties.
 
There's a village called Rasulpur in Pakistan that has roads similar to those in the West. The secret, they do not allow anybody new to settle in. There has been not one report of conflict in that village.
 
There's a village called Rasulpur in Pakistan that has roads similar to those in the West. The secret, they do not allow anybody new to settle in. There has been not one report of conflict in that village.
It has 99% literacy and 0% crime rate. Amazing.
 
There's a village called Rasulpur in Pakistan that has roads similar to those in the West. The secret, they do not allow anybody new to settle in. There has been not one report of conflict in that village.
I think I saw a documentary on that village and it has near 100% literacy not because of any government effort but because the villagers educated themselves and built schools out of their own pockets
 
I think I saw a documentary on that village and it has near 100% literacy not because of any government effort but because the villagers educated themselves and built schools out of their own pockets
Just makes you think what EXACTLY does the government do with all that money? :srt
 
Just makes you think what EXACTLY does the government do with all that money? :srt

Let's ask our resident expert Mr. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION].... As per expert Shehbaz's 30 year rule has turned Punjab into developed world status.
 
Let's ask our resident expert Mr. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION].... As per expert Shehbaz's 30 year rule has turned Punjab into developed world status.

The drug epidemic is astonishing. How much it has rose in Gujrat over the last 10-15 years.
 
Used to be in the past, that people used to go to the west from our part of the world for education/jobs and never came back.
Now, people are trying to get there by any means necessary.

And the reason is simple: from what i've seen of wannabe-immigrants back home, the smaller part, is the allure of more money and opportunty. The greater part, is the understanding that western nations are civilized, while ours are not- simply because, in the west, the rule of law is absolute.

In our part of the world, you can get away with any-which crime imaginable, if you are well connected. Rape, murder, assault, arson - all fair game because you know the local police chief or MLA or your family has money.

Thanks to the internet, people are realizing that in the west, personal freedoms and personal safety are garanteed. Here, if Bill Gates laid a finger on me in public and I didn't like it, he'd go to jail. Same with Donald Trump or Justin Trudeau or whomever. There, forget Nawaz Sharif or Khalida Zia, their cousin's cousin's cousin could beat me up with a cricket bat, break my bones and nothing would happen to them.
We all want better future for our children and to live the last stage of our life in peace and harmony. Only the western countries offer that, along with a handful of other nations (like Japan, S.Korea, Aruba, Bahamas, etc).
 
Used to be in the past, that people used to go to the west from our part of the world for education/jobs and never came back.
Now, people are trying to get there by any means necessary.

And the reason is simple: from what i've seen of wannabe-immigrants back home, the smaller part, is the allure of more money and opportunty. The greater part, is the understanding that western nations are civilized, while ours are not- simply because, in the west, the rule of law is absolute.

In our part of the world, you can get away with any-which crime imaginable, if you are well connected. Rape, murder, assault, arson - all fair game because you know the local police chief or MLA or your family has money.

Thanks to the internet, people are realizing that in the west, personal freedoms and personal safety are garanteed. Here, if Bill Gates laid a finger on me in public and I didn't like it, he'd go to jail. Same with Donald Trump or Justin Trudeau or whomever. There, forget Nawaz Sharif or Khalida Zia, their cousin's cousin's cousin could beat me up with a cricket bat, break my bones and nothing would happen to them.
We all want better future for our children and to live the last stage of our life in peace and harmony. Only the western countries offer that, along with a handful of other nations (like Japan, S.Korea, Aruba, Bahamas, etc).
A nation can be run on brutality but not injustice.
 
Used to be in the past, that people used to go to the west from our part of the world for education/jobs and never came back.
Now, people are trying to get there by any means necessary.

And the reason is simple: from what i've seen of wannabe-immigrants back home, the smaller part, is the allure of more money and opportunty. The greater part, is the understanding that western nations are civilized, while ours are not- simply because, in the west, the rule of law is absolute.

In our part of the world, you can get away with any-which crime imaginable, if you are well connected. Rape, murder, assault, arson - all fair game because you know the local police chief or MLA or your family has money.

Thanks to the internet, people are realizing that in the west, personal freedoms and personal safety are garanteed. Here, if Bill Gates laid a finger on me in public and I didn't like it, he'd go to jail. Same with Donald Trump or Justin Trudeau or whomever. There, forget Nawaz Sharif or Khalida Zia, their cousin's cousin's cousin could beat me up with a cricket bat, break my bones and nothing would happen to them.
We all want better future for our children and to live the last stage of our life in peace and harmony. Only the western countries offer that, along with a handful of other nations (like Japan, S.Korea, Aruba, Bahamas, etc).

If they've got access to the internet, don't you think they might know that they could well end up dead in some far flung ocean rather than living the dream? The dream of living in a hut cooking chappatis on a tin drum if the stories in the article above is anything to go by.
 
If they've got access to the internet, don't you think they might know that they could well end up dead in some far flung ocean rather than living the dream? The dream of living in a hut cooking chappatis on a tin drum if the stories in the article above is anything to go by.

Hope is the most irrational and powerful human emotion, maybe next to love.
Every time someone takes a chance on something, they are hoping for best-case scenario and ignoring worst-case scenarios.
 
Hope is the most irrational and powerful human emotion, maybe next to love.
Every time someone takes a chance on something, they are hoping for best-case scenario and ignoring worst-case scenarios.

Hope to learn perhaps, how to use a knife and fork instead of cooking chapatis on a tin drum one day. Then they would know they had arrived in the civilised world and could gratefully thank their hosts in speech at a cricket function perchance.
 
Most refugees in Serbia slept in squats, while Iranians reportedly stayed in hotels
Meanwhile, refugees from countries such as Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, travelled thousands of kilometres on foot and ended up living on the streets or in derelict buildings across Belgrade.

Compared to fellow migrants, the Iranians looked "more like tourists... they were kids in hoodies and jeans, with backpacks", said Gordan Paunovic, of Info Park.

"Many of [the Iranians] were travelling with fake passports, which were costing between 3,000 to 6,000 euros in Istanbul.

"They didn't share the normal fate of refugees and migrants who have a very hard time in the Balkans. They would not be forced to sleep rough or go to refugee centres like the other people.

"They were here for a month, staying in hotels, and would find a smuggler to make other arrangements."

Iranians were said not to have shared "the normal fate" of migrants in the Balkans
Iranians may be set apart from fellow migrants by their economic prosperity, yet for many living under the repressive regime, life is far from easy.

Kaveh Kalantri, of the Iranian Association, which supports refugees in the UK, said a lack of freedom and human rights violations were driving some Iranians out.

"People get arrested if they have liberal or left-wing views, or if they are from religious minorities. A lot of people experience violence on a daily basis."

Since the Islamic Revolution in 1979, it has been estimated that between 150,000 and 200,000 Iranians have left the country every year.

In the past two years, Iranian citizens have made more UK asylum applications than any other nationality, according to Home Office figures. In 2017, they accounted for 9% of the 26,350 applications.

"Iranians coming to the UK is not unusual, but the way they are coming is," Mr Kalantri said.

Tens of thousands of Iranians are said to have flown into Belgrade
One theory as to why Iranians are choosing to risk their lives on boats stems from their comparative wealth - simply put, they can afford to pay smuggling gangs to get them onboard a vessel.

Maya Konforti, of L'Auberge des Migrants, a refugee support group in Calais, described the attempted crossings as "the speciality of Iranians".

"Crossing by boat can only be done by people who have some money. Africans don't have any left by the time they arrive in Calais," she said.

"There is a new influx of Iranians arriving in Calais. They seem to be the only ones who both dare to do it and find the means to do so."

The Calais Jungle was dismantled in 2016, but migrants from across Africa and the Middle East continue to live in camps
Mr Ćakić suggested Iranians heading for Kent had entered the EU via Serbia.

"I don't see any other explanation. Serbia was the only country on the Balkan Route that had a significant number of Iranians."

Not everyone believes all the migrants are Iranian. Prof Adib-Moghaddam, from the Centre for Iranian Studies at SOAS University of London, suspects most of them are of Afghan origin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-46296249
 
They are all economic migrants not refugee's escaping persecution. It is impossible to separate one from the next and is happening all over.

https://www.ndtv.com/kerala-news/se...issing-boat-carrying-100-migrants-yet-1981705

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Coast Guard and the Navy are still searching for a fishing trawler with over 100 Indians that set off from Munambam port in Kerala's rural Ernakulam to an unknown destination over ten days ago.

"The boat is carrying around 100-120 people, including residents of Delhi and second-generation Tamil migrants. Upon being questioned, a few people told us that their destination is New Zealand. That, however, cannot be taken at face value. Our investigation is still on," a senior Kerala police officer told NDTV. He, however, did not rule out the possibility of the travellers trying to get to another country with a better standard of living.

The boat is suspected to have left Munambam harbour on January 12. Identification documents as well as over 70 bags left behind by the migrants have reportedly been recovered.


"We were asked to assist with search operations on January 13, and initial information suggested that around 50 people had gone missing. The Coast Guard and the Navy are jointly conducting search operations," said Defence Spokesperson Commander Sridhar Warrier.
 
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