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Why are so many people from Pakistani Punjab going as refugees to Greece (and then Europe)

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In the last year or so the refugee crisis in Europe has been just exploding and one of the more weird aspects for me to see is that Pakistanis are among the top group seeking. Asylum (after Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan - sometimes eclipsing these).

Every week or so you read stories of how hundreds of illegal Pakistani migrants were deported from Greece. There's also stories regarding struggle of these migrants.

I was also watching a video where a refugee from Punjab had found a way to be in Barcelona but had arrived there with no money and literally no plans. Last year my friends were in Italy and it again had sizeable people from Sialkot etc.

Why are so many Going to these places without any plans whatsoever and often paying huge sums (for them atleast - PKR 5 lacs or plus). Also it's wierd because when there are refugees you would expect them to be from FATA and KPK but Infact the majority of these people are from Gujrat and other areas of Punjab.

A few articles about them:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1251418/id...kistani-migrants-prefer-greeces-hellish-camps

http://www.dawn.com/news/1223260

There's Ofcourse a lot more and all you need is a simple google search

But why this especially from Punjab?
 
Could be economic everyone has this "view" about making it in the west,remember seeing a documentary once about illegal desis(Punjabis mainly) in Europe and how tough life is for them but even when they call home first thing parents ask is for "sending" money.

The issue I'm assuming is old because the first time i heard about it was when i saw the movie Des Pardes and this was a movie made in 70's about illegal Desis exploited in England.
 
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Could be economic everyone has this "view" about making it in the west,remember seeing a documentary once about illegal desis(Punjabis mainly) in Europe and how tough life is for them but even when they call home first thing parents ask is for "sending" money.

The issue I'm assuming is old because the first time i heard about it was when i saw the movie Des Pardes and this was a movie made in 70's about illegal Desis exploited in England.

Yes I saw a video where this guy was interviewing an economic migrant from Punjab who had just reached Barcelona a few weeks ago.

The migrants had paid all his family's life savings ($6-7000) to get to Spain in life threatening situations really where he could have easily died. And he had reached Barcelona and had no plan. Didn't speak the language, didn't. Know anyone and hardly had any skills he could use. Still he had just come there as if money will just fall from the sky and he will become rich once he is in Europe. To me he seemed very dumb
 
Yes I saw a video where this guy was interviewing an economic migrant from Punjab who had just reached Barcelona a few weeks ago.

The migrants had paid all his family's life savings ($6-7000) to get to Spain in life threatening situations really where he could have easily died. And he had reached Barcelona and had no plan. Didn't speak the language, didn't. Know anyone and hardly had any skills he could use. Still he had just come there as if money will just fall from the sky and he will become rich once he is in Europe. To me he seemed very dumb

It is dumb now considering so much data is available and Spain is suffering with more than 20% unemployment,one can understand if it was Canada but Spain? Lol just sad wonder if it could be the "Chaah" to go away from home maybe for the girls or for the "foreign" thing, just start brand new without reasoning whether its worth it.

In Indian Punjab too i see so many just wanting to go to Canada,Australia,New Zealand without any skill although to their credit lot of them make it and do well but we only hear about good stories who knows about failures right.
 
Add HK to the destination as well.Pakistanis are flocking here.

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Yes I saw a video where this guy was interviewing an economic migrant from Punjab who had just reached Barcelona a few weeks ago.

The migrants had paid all his family's life savings ($6-7000) to get to Spain in life threatening situations really where he could have easily died. And he had reached Barcelona and had no plan. Didn't speak the language, didn't. Know anyone and hardly had any skills he could use. Still he had just come there as if money will just fall from the sky and he will become rich once he is in Europe. To me he seemed very dumb

That is the Pakistani dream these days. Get a visa, and go abroad to the US, England, [insert western country] doesn't matter what you actually do there, as long as you GET there.
 
That is the Pakistani dream these days. Get a visa, and go abroad to the US, England, [insert western country] doesn't matter what you actually do there, as long as you GET there.
But what's the point if you are struggling there as well. In the US even I met some Pakistani migrants (mostly legal atleast so that's a positive but uneducated and unskilled) who he come to the US and were barely getting by. They were struggling in the States as like they did back home but atleast at home you have family support and everything.
 
Add HK to the destination as well.Pakistanis are flocking here.

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Australia as well. Lot of people from KPK there going through Indonesia
 
But what's the point if you are struggling there as well. In the US even I met some Pakistani migrants (mostly legal atleast so that's a positive but uneducated and unskilled) who he come to the US and were barely getting by. They were struggling in the States as like they did back home but atleast at home you have family support and everything.

I agree, I've seen them as well in the US, and after a few months they contemplate going back to Pak :facepalm:

Waiting all those years to get US approval for the visa for nothing.
 
Yes I saw a video where this guy was interviewing an economic migrant from Punjab who had just reached Barcelona a few weeks ago.

The migrants had paid all his family's life savings ($6-7000) to get to Spain in life threatening situations really where he could have easily died. And he had reached Barcelona and had no plan. Didn't speak the language, didn't. Know anyone and hardly had any skills he could use. Still he had just come there as if money will just fall from the sky and he will become rich once he is in Europe. To me he seemed very dumb
He is dumb many of these people are exploited by smugglers that he will make a lot money etc

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Because 'asylum' is one good way of making an illegal status into a legal one.

I know of a family who:

* Came to the UK on a student visa, accompanied by wife and 2 children.

* Just before visa finished, went back to Pakistan and obtained a new student visa for another 'course'.

* Did the same once more.

* On the 3rd occasion, remained in the UK even though the student visa expired.
>> 3rd child born.

* Applied for Indefinite Leave to Remain. (ie permanent stay)
>> After many months - refused.

* Applied for review (ie appealed)
>> After many months - refused.

* Applied for asylum status
>> After almost a year - refused.

* Appealed.
>> Have been waiting for almost a year for the appeal to be heard.

In the meantime, whilst waitng for asylum status, government pays for:
* Rent free 3 bedroom house
* No bills to pay for: Electricy, water, gas, council tax
* Free prescriptions, free health care.
* Free schooling for the 2 school age children

Plus Government gives generous amount money for living allowance, and extra for each child.(well over £200 per week in total)

Plus government pays for their Lawyers fee's to help the couple fight the government decisions!!

Total cost of the various benefits (excluding lawyers fees): £3,500+ per month

* The family expects the asylum appeal to be refused, but still be allowed to remain permanently, because of the time the children have spent in the UK and their lives will be disrupted if the family goes back *

This was all planned at each stage
, including waiting for the maximum amount of time possible before making each application or appeal, so as to build up enough time for the children factor to come into play.
 
Because 'asylum' is one good way of making an illegal status into a legal one.

I know of a family who:

* Came to the UK on a student visa, accompanied by wife and 2 children.

* Just before visa finished, went back to Pakistan and obtained a new student visa for another 'course'.

* Did the same once more.

* On the 3rd occasion, remained in the UK even though the student visa expired.
>> 3rd child born.

* Applied for Indefinite Leave to Remain. (ie permanent stay)
>> After many months - refused.

* Applied for review (ie appealed)
>> After many months - refused.

* Applied for asylum status
>> After almost a year - refused.

* Appealed.
>> Have been waiting for almost a year for the appeal to be heard.

In the meantime, whilst waitng for asylum status, government pays for:
* Rent free 3 bedroom house
* No bills to pay for: Electricy, water, gas, council tax
* Free prescriptions, free health care.
* Free schooling for the 2 school age children

Plus Government gives generous amount money for living allowance, and extra for each child.(well over £200 per week in total)

Plus government pays for their Lawyers fee's to help the couple fight the government decisions!!

Total cost of the various benefits (excluding lawyers fees): £3,500+ per month

* The family expects the asylum appeal to be refused, but still be allowed to remain permanently, because of the time the children have spent in the UK and their lives will be disrupted if the family goes back *

This was all planned at each stage
, including waiting for the maximum amount of time possible before making each application or appeal, so as to build up enough time for the children factor to come into play.

What joke of a system:))) that's absolutely hilarious
 
People seem to think the streets of Europe are paved with milk and honey, but often get a reality check when they get here.

Its sad as some of these people abandon fairly decent, middle class lives at home, pay huge sums to smugglers or agents and come here only to end up in thankless jobs where they're paid below the minimum wage and appalling accomodation.
 
The worst thing about this is that economic migrants from Pakistan and elsewhere make it a lot harder for those genuine Syrians who are fleeing the war to gain asylum in Europe.
 
The worst thing about this is that economic migrants from Pakistan and elsewhere make it a lot harder for those genuine Syrians who are fleeing the war to gain asylum in Europe.
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka - there's virtually no reason for there to be asylum seekers from these countries.

Sure, some here and there may have some problems, but even they could always move a few hundred miles to another part of the country where they wouldn't have the same problem, instead of moving to a new country in a new continent thousands of miles away, and numerous countries in between, from their home country.

See my post #12 above to see how the asylum system is abused.

It hurts the genuine asylum seekers as well as the local taxpayers, the local elderly and sick also suffer because the money that should provide them with better services instead goes to funding these asylum system manipulators.
 
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First of all many pakistani punjabis have a decent life in pakistan. The desire and hunger for europe has always been there. I remember whenever i go to pak all the time you see people making plans to go to europe. I even try to explain thats not easy as they think about europe.

The other issue is that when pak guys working in greece, italy, spain etc go back they pretend as if they earn 10.000 eur month. They really give a wrong signal. But showing for the sake off it is normal for pakistanis.
 
It is dumb now considering so much data is available and Spain is suffering with more than 20% unemployment,one can understand if it was Canada but Spain? Lol just sad wonder if it could be the "Chaah" to go away from home maybe for the girls or for the "foreign" thing, just start brand new without reasoning whether its worth it.

In Indian Punjab too i see so many just wanting to go to Canada,Australia,New Zealand without any skill although to their credit lot of them make it and do well but we only hear about good stories who knows about failures right.
[MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] Really??
 
People seem to think the streets of Europe are paved with milk and honey, but often get a reality check when they get here.

Its sad as some of these people abandon fairly decent, middle class lives at home, pay huge sums to smugglers or agents and come here only to end up in thankless jobs where they're paid below the minimum wage and appalling accomodation.

Do middle class pay smugglers to get to these countries?
 
I have seen many Pakistanis in UK ( not Pathan ) learn Pashto and go to Italy to claim asylum as afghan. There are Pashto speaking Pakistanis who claim to be afghan to claim asylum in Europe and mostly they get away with it but Pakistanis from other parts also try their luck.

One guy I knew , he came to UK in 2006 from Pakistan and applied for asylum as an afghan and when he was interviewed as to why he should be given regugees status or why he came to UK, his reply was " to make money and look after his family in Pakistan"!

No surprises, he was refused asylum but he managed to stay in UK until 2013 . When he didn't hear anything positive from the home office , he went back to Pakistan!




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Ridiculous.

Matter of time before Western countries close the loopholes and throw these desi frauds out.

Rightly so.
 
I know things are bad in Pakistan, but i also know things are not that bad. There is no reason why people belonging to majority sect in Pakistan will try so desperately to find refuge in other countries.
When i read that news item and saw the photos i was shocked.
There has to be another reason. The report is written by a westerner from the prespective of Syria refugee crisis. They missed the entire point.

Pakistan govt should contact these unfortunate people through its consulate and arrange for bringing them back and take action against people who sent them. Its not good PR

BTW Appreciate the selfless efforts done by the volunteers of those countries. Hats off to them , we need more people like them.
 
Are these people successful in their quest or do most return disappointed?

Especially with tighter Regulations in place now.
 
This is very common in Bradford its one of the reasons its known as "The City Of Sanctuary" It has been goin on since the 90's when Uncle Tony opened the flood gates.

Another way these guys supplement their income is by knocking on peoples doors asking for money for charity or mosques in Pakistan particularly in Ramzaan and Spring and Summer.
 
I have seen many Pakistanis in UK ( not Pathan ) learn Pashto and go to Italy to claim asylum as afghan. There are Pashto speaking Pakistanis who claim to be afghan to claim asylum in Europe and mostly they get away with it but Pakistanis from other parts also try their luck.

One guy I knew , he came to UK in 2006 from Pakistan and applied for asylum as an afghan and when he was interviewed as to why he should be given regugees status or why he came to UK, his reply was " to make money and look after his family in Pakistan"!

No surprises, he was refused asylum but he managed to stay in UK until 2013 . When he didn't hear anything positive from the home office , he went back to Pakistan!




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pakistani pashtuns from valleys can pass easily as afghan but what your talking about ive seen myself. pashto isnt an easy language to learn so its easy to catch them out if they say there from jalalabad but speak with sh pronouncition. or if they claim theyre from southern afghanistan yet speak with kh. the thing is a lot of pashtuns from afghanistan have settled in pakistan i know a person from paktia that says that peshawar and paktia are now his homes even though he waa born in peshawar and has a pakistani ID
 
pakistani pashtuns from valleys can pass easily as afghan but what your talking about ive seen myself. pashto isnt an easy language to learn so its easy to catch them out if they say there from jalalabad but speak with sh pronouncition. or if they claim theyre from southern afghanistan yet speak with kh. the thing is a lot of pashtuns from afghanistan have settled in pakistan i know a person from paktia that says that peshawar and paktia are now his homes even though he waa born in peshawar and has a pakistani ID

One guy who is from Peshawar but came to UK and applied for asylum as afghan and was granted asylum so technically he was living his life as an afghan refugees but whenever you wanted to check his loyalty to Pakistan ( just say something bad about pak army) and he would defend them so bad that he would forget that he was supposed to be an afghan!
 
One guy who is from Peshawar but came to UK and applied for asylum as afghan and was granted asylum so technically he was living his life as an afghan refugees but whenever you wanted to check his loyalty to Pakistan ( just say something bad about pak army) and he would defend them so bad that he would forget that he was supposed to be an afghan!
but some people can claim asylum there are some pakistanis who claimed refugee status in afghanistan aswell so i dont know. to be honest i think its easy to catch out pakistan pashtuns vs afghan ones, peshawari pashtuns speak differently due to urdu influences. i remember seeing a documentary on how they rejected a nooristani boy for asylum because they thought he didnt look nooristani and his pashto was similar to the ones that pakistanis speak. i think it does hurt genuine refugees chances. btw u are from afghanistan?? what about people from herat, mazar e sharif arent they safe areas. some parts of kpk waziristan arent so i can understand for some to escape
 
but some people can claim asylum there are some pakistanis who claimed refugee status in afghanistan aswell so i dont know. to be honest i think its easy to catch out pakistan pashtuns vs afghan ones, peshawari pashtuns speak differently due to urdu influences. i remember seeing a documentary on how they rejected a nooristani boy for asylum because they thought he didnt look nooristani and his pashto was similar to the ones that pakistanis speak. i think it does hurt genuine refugees chances. btw u are from afghanistan?? what about people from herat, mazar e sharif arent they safe areas. some parts of kpk waziristan arent so i can understand for some to escape

The thing about Afghanistan is that even though some areas may look safe as there aren't daily bombing etc but they are not safe. Taliban or other groups target people who work for the government , are in police or any security institutions , interpreters , or any individual who has some connection to afghan government or foreign embassies and armies etc.

The afghan government cannot guarantee their safety on individual basis as they are already busy fighting the Taliban and terrorists on national level.

These are the reason majority of genuine afghans are leaving Afghanistan to claim asylum in Europe. However, there are many who have no problem in the country and yet leave for Europe for a better future ( economic reasons).


Therefore, western countries are not approving all afghan asylum case because now they must proof their lives were in danger due to specific threats to them and not just due to bad security of their cities or country.
 
The thing about Afghanistan is that even though some areas may look safe as there aren't daily bombing etc but they are not safe. Taliban or other groups target people who work for the government , are in police or any security institutions , interpreters , or any individual who has some connection to afghan government or foreign embassies and armies etc.

The afghan government cannot guarantee their safety on individual basis as they are already busy fighting the Taliban and terrorists on national level.

These are the reason majority of genuine afghans are leaving Afghanistan to claim asylum in Europe. However, there are many who have no problem in the country and yet leave for Europe for a better future ( economic reasons).


Therefore, western countries are not approving all afghan asylum case because now they must proof their lives were in danger due to specific threats to them and not just due to bad security of their cities or country.

Fair enough.

Btw what about Iranian Refugees, why are they leaving?
 
I once met a person from some small village near Faisalabad traveling right in the middle of Texas. He had crossed over from Mexico and before that had come through 2 or 3 South American countries illegally. He said he had paid around 20,000 dollars for the trip. When I asked him why couldn't he have set up some business in Pakistan with so much money he started spouting the same clichéd nonsense that 'halaat kharab hein, is mulk ka kuch nahi hota sakta'. It was really hard for me to resist the temptation to give him a tight slap. People have done well in Pakistan with much less but this weird mindset still prevails in our younger generation.
 
I once met a person from some small village near Faisalabad traveling right in the middle of Texas. He had crossed over from Mexico and before that had come through 2 or 3 South American countries illegally. He said he had paid around 20,000 dollars for the trip. When I asked him why couldn't he have set up some business in Pakistan with so much money he started spouting the same clichéd nonsense that 'halaat kharab hein, is mulk ka kuch nahi hota sakta'. It was really hard for me to resist the temptation to give him a tight slap. People have done well in Pakistan with much less but this weird mindset still prevails in our younger generation.
Yes some of these people have spent over 15-20 lacs rupees to get to these place and its mind boggling that if they had that much money to spend why the heck didn't they do sth with it back home.

Like the guy in the video I posted. He is in Spain having spent a lot of money and has no skills or connections that could get him a steady stream of income. He will most likely be living hand to mouth too but with the added downer of no family support
 
Nope!!Asylum seekers.
I guess it's very difficult for Indians to try and claim asylum (although many would like to I'll bet - see my post #12 above as to why) unless they can claim to be Khalistan supporting Sikhs or Muslims from Kashmir.
 
I guess it's very difficult for Indians to try and claim asylum (although many would like to I'll bet - see my post #12 above as to why) unless they can claim to be Khalistan supporting Sikhs or Muslims from Kashmir.
Not in Hong Kong. Indians are also obtaining asylum here easily. Well, everyone - Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan - make up stories to attain asylum.

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Not in Hong Kong. Indians are also obtaining asylum here easily. Well, everyone - Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan - make up stories to attain asylum.
Other than claiming to be Khalistan supporting Sikhs or Muslims from Kashmir and thus claiming to be in danger from the authorities, what reasons do they give?
 
It is almost impossible for Indians to get asylum anywhere, on any ground. Everyone is convinced that all these Khalistani and Kashmiri stories are a lot of bull.

For some time, Indian Punjabis used the ploy of destroying their passports upon arrival at the foreign port and declaring statelessness. According to UN convention, a stateless person cannot be deported to any other place. So the receiving countries were forced to keep them. Now most countries have seen through this game too.

I once met a couple of such Punjabis while visiting the Indian High Commission in Paris. Their Schengen tourist visas were sponsored by some relatives of theirs living in Europe. They came over, destroyed their passports and started looking for jobs. Having no language skills or educational qualifications, they had decided to return and were begging the Indian High Commission to issue them with temporary travel papers.
 
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Not even Indian Christians fleeing Hindu mobs can have their asylum applications approved?

No not really. Pakistani Hindus and Christians fleeing Muslim mobs find it a lot easier, apparently.

It is not just Hindus and Christians, even Balochis have now joined the Bash Pakistan brigade.
 
Indians should be granted asylum considering the fact that a person like Modi is their PM.
 
Indians should be granted asylum considering the fact that a person like Modi is their PM.
Which country is going to accept more than 1.2 billion Indian refugees? Give or take a couple of hundred million or so die-hard Modi supporters.
 
This is very common in Bradford its one of the reasons its known as "The City Of Sanctuary" It has been goin on since the 90's when Uncle Tony opened the flood gates.

Another way these guys supplement their income is by knocking on peoples doors asking for money for charity or mosques in Pakistan particularly in Ramzaan and Spring and Summer.

I had that a few years ago but they were from Iran. They had a folder already prepared with glossy folders of torture in Iran so I'm guessing they must have made a killing.
 
Other than claiming to be Khalistan supporting Sikhs or Muslims from Kashmir and thus claiming to be in danger from the authorities, what reasons do they give?
They cite political or religious persecution.

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"asylum seekers" in Hong Kong are from Indian, Pak,Bangladesh and some African countries too, ALL of them are for "economic" reasons. ALL of them are working in Hong Kong & sending money back home. some are involve in illegal stuff for easy money and some are doing hard work in constructions/labour related works.

while Pakistanis come from China and cross into HK at night through boats at night by gangs who are involved in this stuff. Indians mostly coming directly from India by flight and then apply for asylum as Indian passport get 15 days visa on arrival and only because of this they are considering that facility for Indian nationals to taken away now
 
People seem to think the streets of Europe are paved with milk and honey, but often get a reality check when they get here.

Its sad as some of these people abandon fairly decent, middle class lives at home, pay huge sums to smugglers or agents and come here only to end up in thankless jobs where they're paid below the minimum wage and appalling accomodation.

I don't understand those Doctors and engineers who do well yet choose to come here and suffer. Why leave your well paying profession ?
 
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka - there's virtually no reason for there to be asylum seekers from these countries.

Sure, some here and there may have some problems, but even they could always move a few hundred miles to another part of the country where they wouldn't have the same problem, instead of moving to a new country in a new continent thousands of miles away, and numerous countries in between, from their home country.

See my post #12 above to see how the asylum system is abused.

It hurts the genuine asylum seekers as well as the local taxpayers, the local elderly and sick also suffer because the money that should provide them with better services instead goes to funding these asylum system manipulators.

You haven't heard about the civil war in SL ? Most of the Tamils from SL make it to western countries as refugees.
 
Funny thing is most of them aren't that poor that they need asylum in another country. They come to west and live in horrible conditions but still brag about how many 'maraba zameen' they have in Pakistan. Totally sicking.
 
Because 'asylum' is one good way of making an illegal status into a legal one.

I know of a family who:

* Came to the UK on a student visa, accompanied by wife and 2 children.

* Just before visa finished, went back to Pakistan and obtained a new student visa for another 'course'.

* Did the same once more.

* On the 3rd occasion, remained in the UK even though the student visa expired.
>> 3rd child born.

* Applied for Indefinite Leave to Remain. (ie permanent stay)
>> After many months - refused.

* Applied for review (ie appealed)
>> After many months - refused.

* Applied for asylum status
>> After almost a year - refused.

* Appealed.
>> Have been waiting for almost a year for the appeal to be heard.

In the meantime, whilst waitng for asylum status, government pays for:
* Rent free 3 bedroom house
* No bills to pay for: Electricy, water, gas, council tax
* Free prescriptions, free health care.
* Free schooling for the 2 school age children

Plus Government gives generous amount money for living allowance, and extra for each child.(well over £200 per week in total)

Plus government pays for their Lawyers fee's to help the couple fight the government decisions!!

Total cost of the various benefits (excluding lawyers fees): £3,500+ per month

* The family expects the asylum appeal to be refused, but still be allowed to remain permanently, because of the time the children have spent in the UK and their lives will be disrupted if the family goes back *

This was all planned at each stage
, including waiting for the maximum amount of time possible before making each application or appeal, so as to build up enough time for the children factor to come into play.

Bloody leeches...

that's 3.5K clear.....shocking while hard working couples in Britain struggle to bring in a 1/3 of that every month - completely unfair.

the UK like many other western countries care about human life and suffering and have systems in place to help the needy - unfortunately there are a lot of people who unfairly abuse the system & will eventually ruin it for the genuine - this is not sustainable.
 
I have to say that in my estimation and observation since ive been back (my experience, no scientific studies to back this) atleast 50% of the country wants to leave Pakistan and (esp if you talk about males between ages 20 and 45)

The poor want to go to either Gulf countries and work as unskilled labor. Or either they want to go to Europe, US and other western countries as illegals such as the ones talked about in OP.

The middle class (lower and upper middle including) want to go for better education and then better high paying jobs in western countries, Asia, UK, western europe

its prolly only the very very elite or well off who dont want to leave and old people ofcourse.
 
In the last year or so the refugee crisis in Europe has been just exploding and one of the more weird aspects for me to see is that Pakistanis are among the top group seeking. Asylum (after Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan - sometimes eclipsing these).

Every week or so you read stories of how hundreds of illegal Pakistani migrants were deported from Greece. There's also stories regarding struggle of these migrants.

I was also watching a video where a refugee from Punjab had found a way to be in Barcelona but had arrived there with no money and literally no plans. Last year my friends were in Italy and it again had sizeable people from Sialkot etc.

Why are so many Going to these places without any plans whatsoever and often paying huge sums (for them atleast - PKR 5 lacs or plus). Also it's wierd because when there are refugees you would expect them to be from FATA and KPK but Infact the majority of these people are from Gujrat and other areas of Punjab.

A few articles about them:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1251418/id...kistani-migrants-prefer-greeces-hellish-camps

http://www.dawn.com/news/1223260

There's Ofcourse a lot more and all you need is a simple google search

But why this especially from Punjab?

Not just Punjab. The news reported about people from Karachi too. They interviewd a guy who was a manager in a transport company in Karachi. :facepalm:

All of these guys are economic refugees and not real refugees. They should all be deported back to Pakistan.
 
I have to say that in my estimation and observation since ive been back (my experience, no scientific studies to back this) atleast 50% of the country wants to leave Pakistan and (esp if you talk about males between ages 20 and 45)

The poor want to go to either Gulf countries and work as unskilled labor. Or either they want to go to Europe, US and other western countries as illegals such as the ones talked about in OP.

The middle class (lower and upper middle including) want to go for better education and then better high paying jobs in western countries, Asia, UK, western europe

its prolly only the very very elite or well off who dont want to leave and old people ofcourse.
Name me one 3rd world country where the percentages of the population would be much different to the percentages you've stated above in terms of wanting to migrate to Western countries (or the oil rich Gulf countries) if the chance arose.

Heck, even in Europe, look at the numbers from Romania, Poland etc. moving to Western European countries since their countries joined the EU, and you're talking about people from a 3rd world country where the gap between the have's, and have not's, is much bigger?
 
Name me one 3rd world country where the percentages of the population would be much different to the percentages you've stated above in terms of wanting to migrate to Western countries (or the oil rich Gulf countries) if the chance arose.

Heck, even in Europe, look at the numbers from Romania, Poland etc. moving to Western European countries since their countries joined the EU, and you're talking about people from a 3rd world country where the gap between the have's, and have not's, is much bigger?

in Pakistan they are particularly higher and a PEW poll suggested this too. (the whole Yousuf raza gillani episode where he said whose stopping them')
 
I actually came across an asylum seeker from Sialkot Punjab just recently and he was here basically because he needed healthcare for his family which seemed to suffer both illness and disability. I have no idea if he is a persecuted minority, I felt too embarrassed to ask him, but I didn't get the impression his life was in any danger.
 
Heaps of people especially from Punjab are also flooding HK.More Pakistanis asylum seekers have come to HK in the last 3 years than the last 7 years.

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From an Indian newspaper website. Self explanatory headline.
The government is becoming increasingly frustrated with asylum seekers due to their involvement in criminal activities.

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Snow makes Pakistani migrant's journey through Europe even harder




SENTILJ, SLOVENIA: It’s the first time that Arman Butt, a Pakistani man desperately seeking to reach western Europe, sees snow.

But as the 30-year-old goes limp in the harsh chill, stuck at the Slovenian-Austrian border, he wishes it was not quite so cold.

He is one of some 50 men braving freezing temperatures and walking the short distance that separates the Austrian border post from Slovenia.

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Butt is from Lahore, in the east of Pakistan. He has been on the move since September 20.


A few hours ago, he was pushed back into Slovenia by Austrian border guards. Wearing canvas shoes, his feet are frozen and he can barely walk.


Yet he is determined to keep trying until he makes it across.
Slovenian civil defence teams and army troops march alongside the migrants towards Austria’s Spielfeld frontier post.


Every day, some 900 refugees and migrants who have braved freezing-cold temperatures arrive here on trains from Croatia, further south.

Most people reaching Europe’s shores have fled wars, violence and persecution in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Many others though, like Butt, are in search of a better life. They are facing major difficulties in getting across borders on the so-called Balkan migrant route to western Europe.

Another large group of men at the Slovenian border post of Sentilj — mainly Moroccans and Algerians — told AFP they have been pushed back from the Austrian frontier up to five times each in recent days, leaving them in a state of limbo between the two countries.


Migrants and refugees queue to board a train at a train station in the southern Serbian town of Presevo on January 6, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

During the last week of December, Austrian police manning the border post of Carinthia said they had pushed back “several hundred” migrants suspected of having claimed a false nationality in a bid to get through.


The Slovenian interior ministry on Tuesday said Austria had pushed back 956 migrants since December 26.

“Most of them eventually went into Austria, after a new registration process and additional checks,” the ministry said in a statement.

Several European states have introduced unprecedented border controls since the peak of the migrant crisis last year. EU powerhouse Germany — the migrants’ preferred destination — and Austria tightened controls in mid-September.

Sweden, long seen as a haven for refugees, introduced temporary controls on Monday, triggering a knock-on effect and prompting Denmark to do the same on its frontier with Germany.



Butt said he left Pakistan in September because he was convinced that “Europe had opened up its borders”.

“We can’t go backwards, we have spent too much money to come here,” he said, adding that he has already spent 7,000 euros ($7,500).


He has paid smugglers exorbitant sums to cross the Aegean Sea and then non-EU member Macedonia, which has made it especially hard since November for people not fleeing war zones to enter.

At a transit camp for migrants at Gevgelija near the Macedonian border with Greece, many people have fallen ill in recent days, “especially children”, because of the low temperatures that have hit Europe and the Balkans since the start of the year, according to aid worker Lence Zdravkin.

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“More and more people are arriving here without any money, unable to continue their journeys,” Zdravkin said, adding that many had been left penniless by their smugglers.

People “arrive wet and with colds, with wet shoes… kids have fever and are coughing,” said Jasmin Rexhepi, who works for a Macedonian NGO named Legis.

Further north in Serbia, where temperatures have reached -8 degrees Celsius, a bus system has been set up to help migrants on the move reach the transit camp in Presevo near the Macedonian border.

“However it does not stop refugees, who are still arriving with children, elderly and even disabled people,” said Dafina Aliji, a local humanitarian activist.

“Nothing can stop them.”

More than a million refugees and migrants arrived in Europe in 2015 in the worst crisis of its kind to face the continent since World War II.
 
Pakistani, Afghan refugees lead to boom of cricket in Germany



BERLIN: The influx of asylum seekers into Germany, especially from cricket-mad Pakistan and Afghanistan, has created an unexpected boom for the sport in a country where football has long been king.

Of the 476,649 people who applied for asylum in Germany last year, 31,902 came from Afghanistan alone, with a further 8,472 from Pakistan, which has seen the German Cricket Federation (DCB) flooded with a simple question: “Where can I play?”

The DCB’s chief executive officer, Brian Mantle, says they have been swamped by enquiries through their website (www.cricket.de) to set up new clubs across the country, supply equipment and point new arrivals to their local team.

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Afghan refugees takes part in a Cricket training session at the team of the Altendorf 09 Blue Tigers in Essen, western Germany, on April 30, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

Mantle, who is based in the western city of Essen, runs the DCB with only an additional part-timer for assistance.

When the Englishman took over in 2012, there were around 1,500 cricketers in Germany playing in 70 teams.

Now there are 4,000 registered cricketers playing in 205 teams and last week the DCB welcomed its 100th new club, from Bautzen near the Czech border.

And the numbers keep growing.

“We’ve been getting up to five enquiries per day from groups wanting to set up new clubs,” Mantle told AFP.

“Often it’s from social workers, who had never even heard of cricket before groups of refugees from Afghanistan and Pakistan started asking where they could play it.

“They had been offered volleyball or football, but most just want to play cricket.”

Thanks to donations from existing German clubs of bats, balls and cricket clothing, including 35 boxes sent by the Lord’s Taverners, the UK’s leading youth cricket charity, the DCB has recently sent out its 400th box of supplies to help new clubs.


An Afghan refugee takes part in a Cricket training session at the team of the Altendorf 09 Blue Tigers in Essen, western Germany, on April 30, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

But now there is nothing more to donate.

“That was the last box, we have run out. We’re desperately looking for sponsorship or funding,” added Mantle.

The biggest challenge facing any newly-formed group of cricket-playing refugees is to find a ground suitable, while a standard 22-yard-long (20-metre-long) pitch costs up to 10,000 euros ($11,400) to install.

As a temporary solution, the DCB has found a German supplier of coconut mats, costing 650 euros each, which, when laid on wooden boards, behave like a normal pitch.

Snow makes Pakistani migrant’s journey through Europe even harder

Cricket’s governing body, the ICC, has provided 15,000 euros of extra funding to help the DCB meet the fresh demand on top of the 177,000 euros in financing they receive annually.

Mantle, 44, is excited about the future.

“The biggest problem is getting refugees to speak German, but this is a good way to integrate them through the sport they know,” said Mantle.

“At the moment, our national Under-19 team is half made up of Afghans, who have qualified here through residency and that number will grow.


Afghan refugees attends a cricket training at Altendorf 09 Blue Tigers cricket team in Essen, western Germany, on April 30, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

“It can only raise the playing standards here and in years to come, we could follow the likes of Ireland and Afghanistan, who are knocking on the door of Test-level cricket.

“I’m excited about the future, but with a severe lack of resources, we’re totally overwhelmed.”

Cricket has helped Arifullah Jamal to adapt to life having fled to Germany from Afghanistan as a teenager with his younger brother in late 2009 to seek asylum.

After spending 14 hours sealed in a container on a mammoth journey from Greece to Italy, he ended up in a youth hostel in west Germany with his brother, struggling to make friends and learn German.


Brian Mantle (L), president of the Deutscher Cricket Bund (DCB) and member of Altendorf 09 Blue Tigers cricket team leads a training for Afghan refugees in Essen, western Germany, on April 30, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

“The people in the home didn’t know about cricket, but eventually they asked around and that was when Brian (Mantle) came to us and we played cricket again,” he told AFP.

Having learnt to play cricket in Pakistan before his family moved to the Kunar province of Afghanistan, Jamal was delighted to be able to play his favourite sport in his adopted country.

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Before long, the fast bowler was playing for the Germany Under-19 side at international tournaments.

“It really was a dream come true, I’d only seen cricket played like that on television, everything was so professional and I never thought I’d end up playing for Germany when I first arrived,” he added.

The 21-year-old is now captain of the Essen-based Altendorf 09 Blue Tigers, a team made up of refugees who play in a regional league.


Brian Mantle, president of the Deutscher Cricket Bund (DCB) and member of Altendorf 09 Blue Tigers cricket team leads a training for Afghan refugees in Essen, western Germany, on April 30, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

Jamal speaks six languages including English, German and Afghanistan’s two main languages, Dari and Pashto.

Having missed three years of schooling while he learnt German, Jamal balances studying for his Abitur, Germany’s pre-university entrance certificate, with helping newly-arrived asylum seekers translate letters and prepare documents.

Last year, he won an award for his work in helping refugees and promoting cricket in Essen.

“I know from experience how much sport can help people integrate. When we were in the youth hostel, we had nothing. No friends and nothing to do. You don’t speak the language and feel lost,” he said.

“It was so good to get out of the room and play cricket. Otherwise you sit in your room and feel depressed.”

Jamal says he wanted to set up a team for refugees to support each other with the goal of eventually winning promotion to the national championships, cricket’s Bundesliga.

“It means there is a support network, they find out where the best places are to learn German, where they can get help and find work,” he explained.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1097673/pakistani-afghani-refugees-lead-to-boom-of-cricket-in-germany/
“Cricket has given me so much.”
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CwLgLDOVJdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

not exactly Europe, but still relevant.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CwLgLDOVJdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

not exactly Europe, but still relevant.

What a documentary man!
 
Why are people from Lahore so desperate to migrate to West as refugees risking their lives? Its not like Lahore is a war zone.
 
SENTILJ, SLOVENIA: It’s the first time that Arman Butt, a Pakistani man desperately seeking to reach western Europe, sees snow.

But as the 30-year-old goes limp in the harsh chill, stuck at the Slovenian-Austrian border, he wishes it was not quite so cold.

[....]

Butt is from Lahore, in the east of Pakistan. He has been on the move since September 20.

A few hours ago, he was pushed back into Slovenia by Austrian border guards. Wearing canvas shoes, his feet are frozen and he can barely walk.


Yet he is determined to keep trying until he makes it across.

[....]

Butt said he left Pakistan in September because he was convinced that “Europe had opened up its borders”.

“We can’t go backwards, we have spent too much money to come here,” he said, adding that he has already spent 7,000 euros ($7,500).

He has paid smugglers exorbitant sums to cross the Aegean Sea and then non-EU member Macedonia, which has made it especially hard since November for people not fleeing war zones to enter.

I have no sympathy for him whatsoever!

Hope he gets sent back at the earliest opportunity.

These illegal wanna be immigrants, and those who are already in the country illegally (entering illegally, false information supplied when obtaining visa, and/or due to staying beyond expiry of visa) are not just bad for the likes of the UK as a whole, but also bad news for those Pakistani origin UK citizens living honest peaceful lives in the UK. Their actions are stigmatising all of us and causing us untold problems as a result.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CwLgLDOVJdQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

not exactly Europe, but still relevant.

Damn what a documentary!!
 
nothing new. To average Pakistanis any country out there is a promise for a glorious life. Little do they realize how hard it is for us to earn a decent, honest, respectable living. If you want to scam the system and explout the loopholes to leech off of foreign countries and benefits, sure.. there are tons of ways to do that in Europe and Canada like Yossarian said, less so in the US but they are there.

But its still not a good way to live your life and people who do that are those who have absolutely no education and come from really poverty stricken backgrounds in Pakistan.

It is no surprise the world looks at us so unfavorably. Everybody just wants a visa to escape to a foreign land.
 
nothing new. To average Pakistanis any country out there is a promise for a glorious life. Little do they realize how hard it is for us to earn a decent, honest, respectable living. If you want to scam the system and explout the loopholes to leech off of foreign countries and benefits, sure.. there are tons of ways to do that in Europe and Canada like Yossarian said, less so in the US but they are there.

But its still not a good way to live your life and people who do that are those who have absolutely no education and come from really poverty stricken backgrounds in Pakistan.

It is no surprise the world looks at us so unfavorably. Everybody just wants a visa to escape to a foreign land.

I'm curious to the thought process

These are poor people spending an average USD 10,000 which is no chump change for an average guy let alone a poor one. They are spending all that money on something they know is very very risky. And if they can spend that money on something risky why not make something of it in Pakistan. Open a small business or put it to improve their farming methods or machines whatever

And what's worse is that even if they succeed in getting to these countries they must know that they will have a struggle. What are they expecting when they get to these countries having spent all their life saving? Do they think Mama Merkel will come to give them a big hug, a fancy apartment and a job?
 
I'm curious to the thought process

These are poor people spending an average USD 10,000 which is no chump change for an average guy let alone a poor one. They are spending all that money on something they know is very very risky. And if they can spend that money on something risky why not make something of it in Pakistan. Open a small business or put it to improve their farming methods or machines whatever

And what's worse is that even if they succeed in getting to these countries they must know that they will have a struggle. What are they expecting when they get to these countries having spent all their life saving? Do they think Mama Merkel will come to give them a big hug, a fancy apartment and a job?

its very difficult to explain or for someone not familiar with the mentality of such people back home to understand the thought process. Mostly they take loans from multiple people because their belief in a glorious life abroad is so firm. Most of it is based on hearsay from people who embellish their stories or stories of those close to them living abroad.
Part of the blame is with people who tell lies about their standard of living abroad as well. When they go back for a visit or something, they tell tall tales of how they own many houses or cars and whatnot and of course the reaction is "ye banda to cyclon ko puncture lagata tha yahan.. wahan ja ker millionaire ban gaya hai"... this sort of stuff simply solidifies this impression in these simple or uneducated minds that all you have to do is escape to ta foreign land and that is all you will need to do. sometimes they forget that all the hard work they will have to and will put in in that foreign land, if they expend part of that at home, they can reach similar goals and whatnot.

You hear so many similar stories. When I was a student, I did not have to worry about by visa status and all but there were so many fellow pakistanis with me at school who did and worked their way through college and they used to say "I wish I knew how hard it was going to be here, if I did, I would have stayed in Pakistan and worked a bit harder to get into a good university there" .. some people hit that realization after getting here, but its seldom conveyed back home.

Also, its easy to think they can invest in a business or something in Pakistan. I assure you, in Pakistan, no amount of money, connections and whatnot will mitigate the extreme risk factors in any business. Wahan per koi jaiz kaam bhi aram se nahi hota. You want to open a business, you will have to grease the palms of a hundred people, government entities.. whatnot. Its not easy making it big in Pakistan through sheer hard work legally. Most well off people in Pakistan have gotten there through illegal means at one level or another.
 
Because this country is a failure, no matter how much you suger-coat it with anthems and motherland stuff, its an undeniable fact that the country is falling apart.
 
I'm curious to the thought process

These are poor people spending an average USD 10,000 which is no chump change for an average guy let alone a poor one. They are spending all that money on something they know is very very risky. And if they can spend that money on something risky why not make something of it in Pakistan. Open a small business or put it to improve their farming methods or machines whatever

And what's worse is that even if they succeed in getting to these countries they must know that they will have a struggle. What are they expecting when they get to these countries having spent all their life saving? Do they think Mama Merkel will come to give them a big hug, a fancy apartment and a job?

In the distant past, only the privileged and the elite class were able to get educated and lead a life in the west. Slowly the middle class were attracted by the western dream. And they started using opportunities for getting educated in the west and eventually got settled there. Now the poor labour class is getting blinded by the dream and following suit. Only difference is they are doing it in a different way that is possible for them. Yes there are many risks involved but you won't care when you are so enraptured by a dream and they probably feel the risks are worth it for realising their dream of making it in the west.
 
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