Oh you do is it? Never had the good luck of reading any such post from you condemning the discrimination against minorities in Pakistan. Hence asked. Next time will be more cognizant.
Rajdeep.
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Contact the PP Team
Why are there no non-Muslim cricketers active in Pakistan?
- Thread starter anonymous_guy
- Start date
Oh you do is it? Never had the good luck of reading any such post from you condemning the discrimination against minorities in Pakistan. Hence asked. Next time will be more cognizant.
Rajdeep.
Farhan The Man
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I am personally aware of at least 4 karachi-based players ignored in the 2000s for not checking the right boxes.
A common theme in those days was: daari nahin to khilari nahin.
There is a reason for continuing rot thereon.
DeadlyVenom
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I agree with you. I'm not a big fan of DEI but there is one concept that has stuck to me which is concept of "bring your authentic self to work".
So a gay will be comfortable being gay, Hindu as being Hindu etc etc in the workplace
Can we hand on heart say Hindu will be comfortable bringing their authentic self to work as a cricketer? Could they shout Jai Sri Ram or give thanks to Ganesh after winning a match? Will parents be comfortable sending their kids to under 15 tours away from home knowing someone may try to convert them?
I think the answer to that is no and we must do more to ensure environments are inclusive for all backgrounds.
100% agree....good post as always
RexRex
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Pakistan is a graveyard for non-muslims, that is the sad reality.
So big PSL going but not a single non-hindu player participating in it. Is this discrimination against minorities or not good enough to play in a league havinh talented 21 yo like below?
@Farhan The Man @Devadwal
@Farhan The Man @Devadwal
Cpt. Rishwat
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Is there any prominent non-Muslim players being excluded? I don't think the minority numbers are that large in Pakistan so there would be a tiny pool to choose from.
Devadwal
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How is Pakistan treats minorities we all know very well so I'm not surprised .
But I'm really surprised about Asif Afridi age . He is no way 21 year old but most likely 26+
Farhan The Man
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I knew of a few talented karachi-based players back in the 00s who couldn't make it since they didn't check the right boxes.
Their families were also afraid of the consequence after seeing what happened to youhana.
Their only option is not to play with fire. Fear of repercussion from the majority is frightening.
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that picture is fake... he is 38 actually..
So minority players don't want to take cricket as a career fearing religious conversion or face discrimination?
Wow...what a country.
Then its countrymen shed crocodile tears on Indian minorities.
aboveandbeyond
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Can you elaborate regarding Mohammad Yousuf. As fas as he's concerned, he states clearly, he wasn't forced at all, yet you come out with rash statements with no evidence.
Mohammad Yousuf makes huge statement on conversion to Islam
Former Pakistan batsman Mohammad Yousuf said he wasn’t forced to convert to Islam as some have alleged and tried to suggest.
crictoday.com
Farhan The Man
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FYI, karachi still retains healthy pool of christian, hindu cricketers.
Although the last mile gate into main team is prohibited. For now.
Comparatively, karachi is quite diverse and tolerant compared to lahore. Unfortunately pcb HQ is the latter. Run by punjabi generals with a soft spot for raiwind.
Although the last mile gate into main team is prohibited. For now.
Comparatively, karachi is quite diverse and tolerant compared to lahore. Unfortunately pcb HQ is the latter. Run by punjabi generals with a soft spot for raiwind.
Farhan The Man
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Two sides to this story.
Most families want to remain cohesive. And blunt external transgressions from the "failing" majority.
"According to some, Yousuf's decision to convert was in part motivated by an eagerness to blend in with the team and improve his captaincy chances.
His mother was quoted in a newspaper as saying: "I don't want to give Yousuf my name after what he has done."
Cricket: Pakistan ponders the conversion of Mohammad Yousuf
Yousuf Youhana's decision to change religions and adopt the name Mohammad Yousuf has proved highly emotive, reports Alex Young.
Bhaijaan
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There is no concept of co-existence in Muslims of subcontinent. They’re on a mission to convert everyone. For as long as they’re a minority they will cry about rights and all, the moment they become a majority, they want everyone to become a Muslim or go die or leave the lands. This attitude has resulted in Pakistan dropping its non Muslim demographic from a sizeable 10%+ at the time of independence to 1% something today.
Someone like. Danish Kaneria was an anomaly. The system didn’t encourage his rise. He must have had an incredible will and balls of steel to go through a system that was completely against minorities and where his fellows kept pressurising him to convert .
Someone like. Danish Kaneria was an anomaly. The system didn’t encourage his rise. He must have had an incredible will and balls of steel to go through a system that was completely against minorities and where his fellows kept pressurising him to convert .
aboveandbeyond
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Two sides to this story.
Most families want to remain cohesive. And blunt external transgressions from the "failing" majority.
"According to some, Yousuf's decision to convert was in part motivated by an eagerness to blend in with the team and improve his captaincy chances.His mother was quoted in a newspaper as saying: "I don't want to give Yousuf my name after what he has done."Cricket: Pakistan ponders the conversion of Mohammad Yousuf
Yousuf Youhana's decision to change religions and adopt the name Mohammad Yousuf has proved highly emotive, reports Alex Young.www.theguardian.com
Mohammad Yousuf stated himself he was not forced to convert. Now, can you provide any source where Mohammad Yousuf himself states he was forced in to converting to Islam.
Please no whataboutery.
aboveandbeyond
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Danish kaneria had ample opportunity to build on his ever progressing career in which Pakistan had a hugh influence on.
However, it was his irresponsible and selfish act in which led him to diminish his career. The worst issue about it was he decided to bite the same hand that fed, hence being critical of Pakistan, when reality is it was ECB who put a life time ban on him. It's a real case of NAMAK HARAM.
Farhan The Man
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Cpt. Rishwat
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Can you name any who should have made into the international team, or even the PSL?
Genuine question as I would hate to think there are any that are being discriminated to the cost of local or international teams.
Farhan The Man
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karachi fellas are like this.
We place emphasis on freewill. Ready to lay waste.
punjabi boyz are docile. Easily manipulated into submission.
Pakistan has had only three prominent non-Muslim cricketers in its entire cricketing history:
That said, I believe blaming the Pakistan Super League (PSL) for this lack of diversity would be unfair. The league can only select from the talent available in the system. The real issue lies deeper—social biases and systemic discrimination—which may influence opportunities and selection processes at the grassroots level, such as cricket academies and domestic teams. As a result, the pipeline itself lacks prominent non-Muslim cricketers, making it unlikely for them to feature in PSL drafts.
My only beef (pun indented) is with those posters who defends such open discrimination but shed crocodile tears on Indian Muslim's who are flourishing everywhere, including in IPL.
Siraj Bhai, Shami Bhai, Khaleel Bhai, Shahrukh Bhai, Samad Bhai, Avesh Bhai, Umran Bhai...etc etc in IPL. Ufff so much Bhai chaara and love.
Give us also the same pleasure sometime to watch Kumar's and Sharma's playing in PSL.
- Danish Kaneria (Hindu) – A leg-spinner who represented the national team.
- Yousuf Youhana (Christian, later converted to Islam as Mohammad Yousuf) – One of Pakistan’s finest batters.
- Anil Dalpat (Hindu) – A wicketkeeper who played in the 1980s.
That said, I believe blaming the Pakistan Super League (PSL) for this lack of diversity would be unfair. The league can only select from the talent available in the system. The real issue lies deeper—social biases and systemic discrimination—which may influence opportunities and selection processes at the grassroots level, such as cricket academies and domestic teams. As a result, the pipeline itself lacks prominent non-Muslim cricketers, making it unlikely for them to feature in PSL drafts.
My only beef (pun indented) is with those posters who defends such open discrimination but shed crocodile tears on Indian Muslim's who are flourishing everywhere, including in IPL.
Siraj Bhai, Shami Bhai, Khaleel Bhai, Shahrukh Bhai, Samad Bhai, Avesh Bhai, Umran Bhai...etc etc in IPL. Ufff so much Bhai chaara and love.
Give us also the same pleasure sometime to watch Kumar's and Sharma's playing in PSL.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Ultimately he was a sell-out and a cheat, you can guarantee he sold out his country big time, although I would never attribute this to either his religion or his locale. I think those who are indulging in Karachi vs Punjab mentality are showing ugliest form of free will and atheism.
aboveandbeyond
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@Farhan The ManTwo sides to this story.
Most families want to remain cohesive. And blunt external transgressions from the "failing" majority.
"According to some, Yousuf's decision to convert was in part motivated by an eagerness to blend in with the team and improve his captaincy chances.His mother was quoted in a newspaper as saying: "I don't want to give Yousuf my name after what he has done."Cricket: Pakistan ponders the conversion of Mohammad Yousuf
Yousuf Youhana's decision to change religions and adopt the name Mohammad Yousuf has proved highly emotive, reports Alex Young.
What are you trying to imply here.
Farhan The Man
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Could've been much more.
Specially from affluent parsi community in karachi.
They ruled roost over cricketing circles until early 80s. zia's rule scared them sh!tless out of islamic republick of pakistan.
aboveandbeyond
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Hold your horses. A country of 1.5 billion and rising, it's really nothing to crow about whatever your agenda is here.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I am still waiting for some of the most vocal posters like Farhan and Rajdeep to provide some names of excluded minorities. So far they just seem to be making racist or bigoted generalisations without any actual on the ground knowledge of the cricket ability of minorities in Pakistan.
The only one who is dishonest is you.
Answer this question honestly, don't you think only 3 non-muslim cricketer in the entire history of Pakistan cricket is shameful discrimination? I know chances of getting a straight answer is expecting too much but give it a try. I am waiting.
aboveandbeyond
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Embarrassing to be honest.
There are none.
However, the real question isn't whether a famous non-Muslim player is being excluded from the PSL. The deeper issue is, why has the system consistently failed to provide equal opportunities for non-Muslim players to grow and thrive in domestic cricket?
Are we seriously expected to believe that in over 60 years of Pakistan's cricketing history, only three non-Muslim players were ever good enough to play at the highest level? That doesn't reflect a lack of talent, it reflects systemic issues and deeply ingrained biases that have limited access and opportunity.
Whether you agree or not is a different story.
aboveandbeyond
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Ok. As you seem to be a jack of all trades master of non. Can you advice, which current non muslim cricketers participating in domestic cricket of Pakistan, justify selection to the National team.
The 3 non muslim cricketers you mention must have passed the selection criteria in their time to justify selection.
So come on, I'm all ears
Shameful response but expected. Then guys like you demand equal rights and cry Islamophobia in United Kingdom.
The old saying when in minority...
aboveandbeyond
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Typical whataboutery.
Aang_The_last_airbender
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Pakistan is an Islamic country. It has no obligation to be judged by secular lenses. These criteria are only for countries that have secular principles.
In a country where the minority and women representatives are not even elected by the people, we are looking for merit criteria in cricket.
In a country where the minority and women representatives are not even elected by the people, we are looking for merit criteria in cricket.
Did I miss any other bhai playing in IPL? I am sure there will be more
@Devadwal
But But But Minorities of India
Devadwal
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rasikh salam ( RCB) , Shaik Rasheed( CSK ) Zeeshan Ansari( SRH) , Sameer Rizvi ( DC) , Musheer khan ( PBKS) , Arshad Khan ( GT) ,Did I miss any other bhai playing in IPL? I am sure there will be more
@Devadwal
But But But Minorities of India
Shahbaz Ahmed ( LSG) ,
Bhaijaan
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Subcontinental muslim mentality of absolute dominance is a scary prospect. I honestly lose sleeps at night sometimes thinking about this which is a legit prospect if Sanatan doesn’t keep on consolidating in Bharat.
The GCC nations are much better. Despite being absolute Muslim majority nations, you don’t feel threatened there as a non Muslim as a KFC shop owner or just being a regular non Muslim there.
In Pakistan, Bangladesh what we are seeing right now is like Morpheous showing the dark reality to Neo in Matrix.
To be honest, Pakistan is still a lot better. Things are very scary right now in Bangladesh. Look at what is going on in Murshidabaf, Bengal, Bharat right now.
You have to be thoroughly honest about commenting on these topics. No one wakes up and chooses Islamophobia just like that. The prospects are scary for social countries. Poverty, jahalat, anger, communalism are all ingredients of a ticking time bomb.
The GCC nations are much better. Despite being absolute Muslim majority nations, you don’t feel threatened there as a non Muslim as a KFC shop owner or just being a regular non Muslim there.
In Pakistan, Bangladesh what we are seeing right now is like Morpheous showing the dark reality to Neo in Matrix.
To be honest, Pakistan is still a lot better. Things are very scary right now in Bangladesh. Look at what is going on in Murshidabaf, Bengal, Bharat right now.
You have to be thoroughly honest about commenting on these topics. No one wakes up and chooses Islamophobia just like that. The prospects are scary for social countries. Poverty, jahalat, anger, communalism are all ingredients of a ticking time bomb.
Bhaijaan
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Being a chor is a separate thing and I must say being from the minority at least he should not have actively indulged in chori because he had to set an example. That being said, in a set up full of chors from all communities, his emergence and the fact that he had a very decent test career shows he had an extremely tough personality to emerge from that situation
Bhaijaan
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Azhar bhai was my hero. I think it was a great story that a man from the minority lead us to most number of tests for so long and was our superstar in the 1990s, him disgracing himself through match fixing really is a sad situation because he was supposed to be the Muslim icon. Still is but with a shade.
Anyway, Zaheer bhai, Kaif bhai, Shami bhai, Siraj bhai etc have all served our cricket being true icons for Muslims. Especially Zaheer bhai, what an absolute champion.
Anyway, Zaheer bhai, Kaif bhai, Shami bhai, Siraj bhai etc have all served our cricket being true icons for Muslims. Especially Zaheer bhai, what an absolute champion.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I actually rated Kaneria really highly. He didn't have the variety of Shadab Khan, but he spun the leggie a mile, similar to Shane Warne, unfortunately he couldn't mix that up like Shane did with the topspinner.
I feel Kaneria would have been even more successful if it wasn't for his bookie links and questionable motivation.
sweep_shot
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A player should be selected based on his skills. Not because he is a minority or non-minority.
Quota system simply doesn't work. Just ask the South Africans or Zimbabweans.
Quota system simply doesn't work. Just ask the South Africans or Zimbabweans.
aboveandbeyond
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Typical whataboutery posts are now threatening to derail the thread.
So let me get this straight — are you suggesting that in over 60 years of Pakistan’s cricket history, only three non-Muslim cricketers were ever skilled enough to represent the national team? And now, not even one is good enough to make it into the domestic circuit or a PSL squad?
Being a practicing devout Muslim, you should not be so dishonest with yourself.
aboveandbeyond
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Name any non muslim Pakistani domestic cricketer who justifies selection for the national team?
Its a simple question. And please, no whataboutery!
Answered this in post #270
sweep_shot
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I would be surprised if he knows a single Pakistani Hindu domestic player.
Then again, I don't think he knows anything deeply. He is a shallow gimmick-man.
aboveandbeyond
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That does not prove anything. That's typical to justify your own narrative.Try abit harder.
The non muslim cricketers who have represented Pakistan went through the same selection process as their counterparts and excelled, now that says to me it's equal opportunities for all.
Aang_The_last_airbender
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Bhai, Pakistan cricket is vaise hi extended family network. They don't outsider Muslims in the team easily, you expect them to look for talent among non-Muslims?
.It does, though. Pakistan has been playing cricket for over 60 years, and its non-Muslim population, which was much larger in the past, now constitutes around 5%.
Considering how popular cricket is among Christians, Hindus, and Sikhs, the fact that only three players managed to get into the national side, and now no one is in the domestic/PSL setup, clearly shows a systematic bias.
How dishonest.
sweep_shot
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He is yet to drop any name because he doesn't know any. He is like those students who can't answer test questions and have to make up answers.
Reminds me of Plato's quote --> “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”
Can you not read? LOL. What do you mean I am yet to drop any name when there are none.He is yet to drop any name because he doesn't know any. He is like those students who can't answer test questions and have to make up answers.
Reminds me of Plato's quote --> “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”
Have you even read post #270?
In Bangladesh's defence though, in their short cricket history multiple hindu cricketers represented them and they never cried about discrimination like Kaneria have done. So credit where due.
aboveandbeyond
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Bias would only exist if you can prove .
A) if minority players ( if playing) warrant selection and are deliberately being ignored.
B) Minorities are deliberately NOT being encouraged to take up Sport.
It is difficult to prove systemic biases by citing specific examples, but if only three players in over 60 years of cricket history doesn’t reek of discrimination, I don’t know what does. Sorry, but you're being deliberately dishonest.
sweep_shot
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All Rajdeep have to do is name some Pakistani Hindu domestic players who he thinks are good enough to represent Pakistan.
So far, nothing. He doesn't know anyone. So, why is he going nuts over this?
Then again, bhakts don't believe in qualifcations/merits I guess.
So far, nothing. He doesn't know anyone. So, why is he going nuts over this?
Then again, bhakts don't believe in qualifcations/merits I guess.
Asking the same question multiple times doesn't make you smart or change the topic. This tactics will not work with me. You are scared to even quote me directly...LOLAll Rajdeep have to do is name some Pakistani Hindu domestic players who he thinks are good enough to represent Pakistan.
So far, nothing. He doesn't know anyone. So, why is he going nuts over this?
Then again, bhakts don't believe in qualifcations/merits I guess.
I have replied to your answer in post#270 and #290 respectively. Let me know if you need more details.
Cpt. Rishwat
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This is a waste of time. The guy has come to the thread with an agenda and is trying to cite facts which will support it. He has no idea about the quality of non-Muslim cricketers in Pakistan or even the number. You can't ask why there haven't been more non-Muslim stars if you have no idea about who you are talking about. It was the same with Farhan the Man who was just throwing around general ideas, but couldn't name any players specificially.
aboveandbeyond
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Yep. Both, separate cheecks of the same backside.
I take it as an offence when you try to shrug it off as an agenda. If Indian cricket had only 3 non Hindu player represented them in their entire cricket history or if no non-Hindu player active in domestic cricket or IPL, will the likes of you not have cried foul and called it a discrimination against their minorities? Ofcourse you would. However, when we say the same, it became an agenda. How come?
Yes, you can say India's constitution is secular and Pakistan is an Islamic nation. So it is unfair to compare the two as there will obviously be less minority cricketers in Pakistan. But that is the systamic bias that I was talking about. Not sure why it is so difficult to agree. Associating the lack of non muslim players somehow to lack of skills is pretty poor defence.
Be honest to yourself and then everything will be easy. I will not be here forever to guide you guys.
sweep_shot
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It can be worthwhile to debate with someone who is intelligent and respectful toward an alternative view. For example, Omar Suleiman once had a discussion/debate with a Jewish rabbi and a Christian priest. It was very respectful and insightful.
Problem with debating with bhakts is they are generally undercooked and misinformed. So, debate goes nowhere. On top of that, they are obnoxious and resort to namecalling, whataboutism etc.
One of my life regrets is I have wasted many hours debating these bhakts which I could've used for better purposes.
I’m not following this line of argument at all. Pakistan has had only three non-Muslim cricketers in its entire cricket history, and not a single non-Muslim player has ever featured in the PSL. That’s a fact, not misinformation. A statistic like this strongly raises the suspicion of minority bias. I haven’t resorted to name-calling or whataboutery in this thread but simply asking a straightforward question. If this direct question makes some people uncomfortable, that’s not my responsibility.It can be worthwhile to debate with someone who is intelligent and respectful toward an alternative view. For example, Omar Suleiman once had a discussion/debate with a Jewish rabbi and a Christian priest. It was very respectful and insightful.
Problem with debating with bhakts is they are generally undercooked and misinformed. So, debate goes nowhere. On top of that, they are obnoxious and resort to namecalling, whataboutism etc.
One of my life regrets is I have wasted many hours debating these bhakts which I could've used for better purposes.
Because its a secular country with rights enshrined in the constitution and has remained secular onspite of 80% pop being Hiindu. Unlike some neighboring Islamic countries who have no minority rights and their numbers wiped off from existence. Thats the difference. And that is Ind strength..
Farhan The Man
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As it states in the article.
His possible motivation was to gel into an environment where he was ostracized for his christian faith. He couldn't climb up further unless he converted. But then he broke that sacred bond with his immediate family.
It's a tough situation for any bloke to experience. As talented as he was on the field, I don't envy his existence. Actually feel sorry for him being born in the wrong country. He needn't make this appalling choice if citizen of another country.
aboveandbeyond
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Ho yes. What's the consequences for a slaughtered cow, which is perfectly acceptable in a civilised world
aboveandbeyond
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The Article on post #253 suggests otherwise.
Red-Indian
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Poor Youhana. I have a lot of sympathy for him. Did what he has to do under tough circumstances and who are we to judge? Honestly, I'd profess allegiance to any god out there - Christan, Jewish, Islamic or Hindu if there was that much to gain. It matters so little any way.
Off topic - based on local ordinances simple. What are the consequences of pig slaughter next to some religious places in some religious countries which is perfectly acceptable in a civilized world. Yeah intertwining some meat eating with entire secular rights. Apple's to water melons actually. No wonder pak and ban are in the state they are in now.
aboveandbeyond
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Off topic. So no different then to Shining india. It's a case of " Pot calling the kettle black" then.
You wanted an explanation and started complaining. So what does shining ind have here?? So let me clarify more you.
13 Meats People Used To Eat, But Are Now Illegal In The US - Chowhound
Because of laws passed to protect certain endangered or threatened species, many meats were popular in the past are now illegal in the United States.
www.chowhound.com
Above is the list of banned meats in USA. Lot of those are legal in other countries and thats fine because its the local rules. Horse and donkey meat are legal in pak but banbed in USA. So fair to call you uncivilized folks tgen as hirse meat is banned in USA. Pork is tge most popular meat in usa - so why dont you or pak posters eat it?
So hope you realize how absurd your statements are bcos thats what they are . Now hope you answer my questions instead of whataboutery
The problem is all these posters complain of other countries yet there are no minority rights in their own country. Minorities have been wiped out with no rights. So when in minority want full secularism but when in majority want Islamic or shariah law.
They will bever understand what a full secular democracy is like say we have in the USA. Yrs there will be differences but you have freedom to do within the confines of the law.
aboveandbeyond
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You wanted an explanation and started complaining. So what does shining ind have here?? So let me clarify more you.
13 Meats People Used To Eat, But Are Now Illegal In The US - Chowhound
Because of laws passed to protect certain endangered or threatened species, many meats were popular in the past are now illegal in the United States.
Above is the list of banned meats in USA. Lot of those are legal in other countries and thats fine because its the local rules. Horse and donkey meat are legal in pak but banbed in USA. So fair to call you uncivilized folks tgen as hirse meat is banned in USA. Pork is tge most popular meat in usa - so why dont you or pak posters eat it?
So hope you realize how absurd your statements are bcos thats what they are . Now hope you answer my questions instead of whataboutery
Your original post has no relevance to the Topic.
Please provide sources Pakistan has prevented or has issues with non muslims participating in sports or cricket
Farhan The Man
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youhana's predicament is/was no different than these current "muslims" who hold allegiance to king of england as royal subjects to ensure their own survival. And financial gain.
Ditto for paying taxes to fund israel's existence on one hand, and then crying over its existence on flip side.
As they say. Every man has a price. You just have to find out what it is. And he will convert.
You webmnt off topic so had to respond. You can respknd in the appropriate thread
aboveandbeyond
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Im in the appropriate thread. Any reliable source to my question on post #311
aboveandbeyond
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Can you provide and source where Mohammad Yousuf said this. Or is it the normal whataboutery and hot air
ChennaiFan
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Yes, it is very evident.
They dont even have a chance to get therr. Bo minority rights so they are wiped out or dont even get into the system. And thats sad. Youhana and kaneria are outliers. Youhanaa story and kaneriaa travails are tge proof in tge pudding. By the way- the kaneria fixing thing js different and tottaly unpardonable. Life ban for all fixers no matter what country.
aboveandbeyond
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As expected. No source or evidence. Just one of your normal narrative driven agendas. Ok. No problem.
Religious discrimination in Pakistan - Wikipedia
Here you go.. let me knoww if you no comprehendo.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I don't know why you keep making this same point repeatedly. Muslims want Sharia law in Muslim countries. When in secular countries they want the secular countries to uphold their own laws and apply them consistently.
