Why do Pakistani fans admire & appreciate Virat Kohli way more than they ever did Sachin Tendulkar?

[EliteCynical]

Thanks ... There is plenty more on youtube

Nah, I let bygones be bygones. The innings are mostly etched in memory. I believe in moving on and enjoying the present. The day he said "Sachin Sachin would reverberate wherever i go" was the day I realised an era had come to an end. I closed that chapter and moved on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[pillionrider]

His Looks. As simple as that.

He's visually aggressive which Tendulkar never was.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Tendulkar limited overs batsman was a match winner but Pakistan used to regularly beat India so he didn't have the same aura as Kohli who keeps beating us in the last 10 matches between India vs Pakistan Kohli was the architect of most of them.

Sent from my SM-G925I

 

[Texaco]

You asked for when he toyed with Pak Bowling and I gave you some examples but to answer your question .. No but i also forgot to post some other phainta's

so he got out against Shoaib and Saqi and others a few times ,,, so this means he was no good in your opinion? Is this how your cricketing sense works ?

When did I say he was no good. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Tusker]

Nah, I let bygones be bygones. The innings are mostly etched in memory. I believe in moving on and enjoying the present. The day he said "Sachin Sachin would reverberate wherever i go" was the day I realised an era had come to an end. I closed that chapter and moved on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

true there is a certain charm to that approach ... but I cant resist watching every now and then. So glad that he played during my time.

 

[Tusker]

When did I say he was no good. Don't put words in my mouth.

Well then maybe you need to learn to write clearly what you mean instead of posting one line barbs.

 

[Texaco]

Tendulkar limited overs batsman was a match winner but Pakistan used to regularly beat India so he didn't have the same aura as Kohli who keeps beating us in the last 10 matches between India vs Pakistan Kohli was the architect of most of them.

Sent from my SM-G925I

Not too long ago Kohli used to fail against Pak. He was a bunny of junaid in the bilateral iconic series which no one can forget. People have really short memory and

 

[Texaco]

Well then maybe you need to learn to write clearly what you mean instead of posting one line barbs.

Toyed with Pakistan was the term I objected to. Clear who needs better writing skills.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

He's similar in nature to most Pakistanis. Simple as.

Kohli has that aggression about him that Pakistanis like, like the aggression of a fast bowler.

He's grown on me, didn't like it initially but now understood why he did it and helped shape his game.

To put it simply ^^^^

 

[Tusker]

Toyed with Pakistan was the term I objected to. Clear who needs better writing skills.

And I gave you a whole bunch of clips to refresh your memory. Pretty obvious that you didnt like seeing your phasssht bowlers being spanked around.

 

[Texaco]

And I gave you a whole bunch of clips to refresh your memory. Pretty obvious that you didnt like seeing your phasssht bowlers being spanked around.

You would agree shoaib and saqlain toyed with him too then.

 

[Tusker]

You would agree shoaib and saqlain toyed with him too then.

Depends on your definition of "Toying" . Does Shoaib getting him out after he made 98 count as toying for you ?

 

[Texaco]

Depends on your definition of "Toying" . Does Shoaib getting him out after he made 98 count as toying for you ?

No.. Kolkata test 1999.

 

[Tusker]

No.. Kolkata test 1999.

Ok. Thats one occasion ... are you saying this happened many times ? Waht is your point ?

 

[m.shah]

He is better than Sachin simple as that.

 

[Texaco]

Ok. Thats one occasion ... are you saying this happened many times ? Waht is your point ?

Yes he and saqlain got sachin out many times. You probably don't remember.

 

[JaDed]

a) Can you name some Pakistani Punjabi players who play like Kohli?
b) Can you name some Indian Punjabi players who play like Kohli?
c) Can you name any player who plays like Kohli?

I meant looks bro.

 

[mfin]

It's because Kohli exists at a period where Pakistan is much inferior to India, so our egos aren't as big and we can accept and appreciate Kohli.

However during SRT's prime, we gave him tough competition through our own greats like Wasim, Saqlain and Waqar and other superstars like prime Akhtar and Razzaq. So when we skittled him out, it felt good, but when he came out on top it made it hard to digest so was hard to compliment him.

This

 

[aukhan]

Kohli far better than Sachin. Die hard fan boys of sachin will have hard time accepting it.

Kohli is something else. The best batsman in the world.

 

[shahid1984]

mad respect for this guy...time after time, he single handedly carry his team towards success...odi/T20, no cricketer can come closer.

 

[UpInTheAir]

Because Tendu was too nice, and Kohli is bad boy. We enjoy us some phast baaling and aggressive cricket

Sent from pone

 

[Slog]

Sachin never really dominated us like Kohli has

Sachin did score a truckload of runs against us but there were usually 2 caveats which dimmed the quallity of his innings:

1) India ended up losing (Chenna 99, multiple ODIs)
2) Innings were littered with chances. (2003, 2011)

Also in ODIs he never really put you under the pump like Kohli can. Dont think Sachin could have pulled it off yesterdays chase

 

[Anfield]

i never saw Sachin as so one who could chase down big or tough totals even when he was in his peak but with Kohli you can assure he will get India close if not win when he is in.

 

[PTI]

Kohli has that aggression about him that Pakistanis like, like the aggression of a fast bowler.

He's grown on me, didn't like it initially but now understood why he did it and helped shape his game.

This

 

[dashing_man]

Most Pakistani fans appreciate both

2 from 10 ain't most

 

[Anfield]

i never saw Sachin as so one who could chase down big or tough totals even when he was in his peak but with Kohli you can assure he will get India close if not win when he is in.

Someone*

 

[Havok]

Because sachin was not a match winner.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Sachin never really dominated us like Kohli has

Sachin did score a truckload of runs against us but there were usually 2 caveats which dimmed the quallity of his innings:

1) India ended up losing (Chenna 99, multiple ODIs)
2) Innings were littered with chances. (2003, 2011)

Also in ODIs he never really put you under the pump like Kohli can. Dont think Sachin could have pulled it off yesterdays chase

Tendulkar is without doubt one of the best batsmen ever.

But to your point, he could not have played the innings Kohli played yesterday...or day in and day out.

India, because of Tendulkar had excellent batting. But they only started winning when Sehwag and Ganguly came along.

That is why, even in the era when we used to beat India or were at par, you will find big admiration amongst Pakistanis for Sehwag and Ganguly. You knew with them in, the match was never won.

That to me is the crucial reason why Kohli is admired by Pakistanis. With him batting, the opposition never thinks the match is won. With Tendulkar in, it was different.

But no Pakistani will deny Tendulkar's amazing batting prowess.

 

[Texaco]

Sachin never really dominated us like Kohli has

Sachin did score a truckload of runs against us but there were usually 2 caveats which dimmed the quallity of his innings:

1) India ended up losing (Chenna 99, multiple ODIs)
2) Innings were littered with chances. (2003, 2011)

Also in ODIs he never really put you under the pump like Kohli can. Dont think Sachin could have pulled it off yesterdays chase

You forget not so long ago, Kohli was bunny of Junaid.. how short memory.

Tendulkar 2003 innings had only one chance.. that's bound to happen in a century.. you can't call it littered with chances. Kohli in 2015 WC against Pak also gave chances..

 

[Texaco]

Because sachin was not a match winner.

LOL.. this is as absurd as other comments.

 

[Havok]

LOL.. this is as absurd as other comments.

Every time he scored century india lost, everyone know this truth, shoaib akhtar himself said this on india news.

 

[Texaco]

Every time he scored century india lost, everyone know this truth, shoaib akhtar himself said this on india news.

LOL.. "every time" ?

 

[Texaco]

That to me is the crucial reason why Kohli is admired by Pakistanis. With him batting, the opposition never thinks the match is won. With Tendulkar in, it was different.

.

What are you saying mate ? With Tendulkar in, we always were worried that match wasn't won till he was there. He was the one-man army. Very rarely India won with him failing early.. you need to watch matches of the 90s.

Sure he was a bunny of Pakistani bowlers, but don't spread false information. India was too heavily dependent on him.. not seen that kind of dependence since or before.

 

[Ab Fan]

Tendulkar as lone warrior won't win you games. AB De Villiers as lone warrior again won't win you games. Kohli as lone warrior battles hard and wins the game on his own.You would always prefer a successful glorified story instead of a sad uncomplete story.

 

[street cricketer]

Not a Pak fan, but I think I'll opine.

Personally if I compare any batsman, it would be to SRT and no one else. Part of that is because he is most widely considered to be the greatest batsman of recent times, whether that is true or not. I think there elments of truth, but greatness like intelligence isn't a monochromatic quality. There are different kinds of greatness. Kohli can do things Tendulkar couldn't and vice versa. A true comparison can only be done once Kohli retires.

Things which Sachin achieved that no one else most likely will are:

- playing at a phenomenal level for 20 plus years
- being so good at such a young aqe
- his perfect technique and aesthetic purity of strokeplay second to none

However he had flaws as well, namely that he was a choker who succumbed to pressure almost every time.

I have a lot of respect for Tendulkar, and enjoyed watching him, although I also loved to see him fail, just like I love to see India lose. And yes, that stems from pure envy...why should India have someone of the caliber of a SRT? I have no problems admitting that. Its just like being jealous of that guy because his wife is super hot, yet he didn't do anything more than me to deserve her.

I agree with your post for the most part. No player will ever be 100% perfect and Tendulkar defintely had his flaws too, like Kohli does. For example, he wasn't as good in the 4th innings of tests.

But I don't agree that Tendulkar almost bottled whenever he was under pressure. I have seen this oft repeated line that Tendulkar was a choker from many people and I feel that most younger fans only take his WC final 2003 and 2011 failure into account while saying this. Tbh I can't find anyone who would have chased the 2003 final target against McGrath and co at that time. Anyway, Kohli is in a league above Sachin when it comes to chasing, but to say Sachin was a choker is way off the mark if you look at some of his records while chasing.

Most successful batsman in wins


Most prolific batsmen in successful chases


Best batsmen in tournament finals


Top batsmen in victorious finals


Top batsmen in chases in victorious finals


I posted this stat about 6 months back. I'm sure Kohli will break Sachin's records in chasing. But he has to perform in tournament finals and in 1st innings too, which he hasn't done as much as he has done in other knockout chases and in 2nd innings. But I'm sure he'll rectify it as he's a class batsman and a hard worker.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

As some have pointed out:

1. Kohli LOOKS more visually aggressive, Connects with pakistanis way more than timid looking Sachin (peak SRT was more about butchery but Kohli is very calculative with occasional death blow shots)

2. Kohli soaks up pressure moments in a game WAY better than Sachin (but that doesn't mean Kohli is a better pressure match player in an absolute way - I will tell you why)

3. Yesterday's knock could NOT have been played by SRT.

But its also true that:

1. Euphoria is clouding people's judgement. Reasons are getting manufactured.

2. Pakistanis love the term "match winner". SRT's played in a weak team against an ATG Pak lineup. So winning a lot of matches wasn't possible. Kohli played against a weak Pakistan so as opponents he looks far more scarier than SRT ever did. Imagine lone ranger Kohli against Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain chasing a tough total. The whole context changes, doesn't it?.

3. In the other thread, for bringing a balance to a one sided discussion, I made a real SRT vs Kohli comparison with results that are SOO shocking that no one came ahead and challenged it.

4. Someone then asked me to a peak SRT vs peak Kohli comparison and I did that and the results surprised me too. SRT beat Kohli DIRECTLY in almost all indicators WITHOUT having to adjust averages for era. In knockouts, he averages like TWICE more. In finals, same thing - TWICE more.

You can see my posts here (#49, #68, #70)

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...vs-Virat-Kohli-in-Limited-Over-Internationals

Kohli WILL ALWAYS be loved more than SRT by Pakistanis.

Even neutrals.

Why?

Cos results are there.

He soaks up pressure moments way better than SRT. So even when he flops in main moments, he still will get hailed as he now has a team who can qualify even when he screws up (this WC has been different where we were dependent on him out and out).

For those who say SRT was not a match winner but guys like Lara, Ponting and others were....#68 post in the above linked thread is gonna be a shock.

The best analysis is from [MENTION=136334]Shutdown Corner[/MENTION] (even though he is completely wrong about SRT's choking in pressure games - SRT does not choke in pressure games...he choks in pressure moments - still he NOTCHES up the runs in pressure games).

They are just different players. Kohli can do things that SRT cannot and vice versa.

Kohli was actually on track to beat SRT but the WC 2015 flop put a huge dampener on that. Now let's see how he goes about.

Regardless he was, is and WILL ALWAYS be more loved than SRT. That is partly the tragedy of SRT coupled with his own meekness when dealing with pressure moments in a game (he can score runs in pressure games but falters supreme pressure moments which fans are unforgiving about).

But one dude conquered time. Other dude is on the path.

All those who say Kohli is way better than SRT should just rewind the clock one year back and see how ABD was rated then and how he is rated now. One year back, he was rated nothing less than superman. Now he is rated as a bloody good player.

 

[Texaco]

Tendulkar as lone warrior won't win you games. AB De Villiers as lone warrior again won't win you games. Kohli as lone warrior battles hard and wins the game on his own.You would always prefer a successful glorified story instead of a sad uncomplete story.

Kohli as a lone warrior failed too. I am not sure what you mean by "lone warrior". Other players' contribution is zero ?

 

[Vayuu]

What would have happened if a young Tendulker and kohli played in the same team

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Just to bring a sense of balance to this thread too.....

Reproducing posts so that people can separate personal emotions from actual performance.

Peak Kohli vs Peak SRT comparison (Kohli's 5 years vs SRT's 10 years)

Ok...before I go to sleep, let me dig it out:

SRT from 1994 - 2003 (opener)

General - 50 average at 89 SR

Tournament average - 52 @ 90

World Cup - 61 @ 85 (this includes 3 WCs - 1996 hit, 1999 flop and 2003 hit)

Tournament Knockouts average - 52 @ 91

Tournament finals average - 52 @ 93

Batting first - 48 @ 89

Batting second - 51 @ 95

Kohli (2012 - 2016)

General - 55 average at 94 SR

Tournament average - 50 @ 92

World Cup - 50 @ 81 (1 WC in Aus)

Tournament Knockouts average - 26 @ 86

Tournament finals average - 22 @ 115 (2 games)

Batting first - 44 @ 88

Batting second - 65 @ 99

----------

There you go.

SRT directly beats him in almost all indicators inspite of playing in a lower scoring era with tougher bowlers. Even Kohli's WC average is 50 due to his knock against Pakistan and a few minnows (format of the WC was like that or else he failed against SA, Aus and Wi).

Even I didn't know the gap was this much.

Kohli can make up but as I said, LONGGG way to go.

By mistake I took Kohli's date from 2012 instead of 2011.

If I include 2011, then all his numbers would drop.

WC average goes to 41 from 50.

Kohli better than SRT in ODIs without a shadow of doubt?

)

People get carried away sooo easily.

Kohli is a WAAAY better player than SRT when it comes to dealing tough moments in a game.

Tendulkar may be weaker in that area but he delivers what he has to deliver as an opener and does it in ALL games.

Here's some perspective for you guys (look at the sample set of SRT in knockouts):



Don't ask Kohli's stats in the above list.

Its 24 average in 12 games.

Now some may (wrongly) think my post is driven by my love for Sachin.

Not at all.

I request all of you to turn back the clock 1 year ago and see how ABD was rated.

"Easily better than Sachin"

"Miles better than Kohli"

"Greatest ODI bat ever"

"Equal to Viv or even better"

Where is he now?

He is still rated high but evokes none of the euphoria people had about him.

Why?

THAT IS POWER OF TIME.

Everyone can look INVINCIBLE at one point of time but very few conquer time.

SRT did.

He performed in 4 out of 6 WCs (and was the top scorer or in top 3 in about 3 WCs).

Kohli is yet to have a great WC in this batting era. I can't even imagine what BRUTALITY SRT would have brought in for Aussie pattas 2015.

If he flops in 2019 or he has a bad patch next year, the MOMENTUM will shift and people would call him names.

I know Kohli played a knock today that SRT could NEVER have played.

But SRT conquered time.

Kohli has a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG way to go.

He has aura. He is better than SRT in some aspects but he too was part of the losing team (0-4 in NZ) when he scored 2 centuries in 4 games.

So let the time decide.

Kohli's numbers as of now are severely inferior to SRT.

 

[Texaco]

As some have pointed out:

1. Kohli LOOKS more visually aggressive, Connects with pakistanis way more than timid looking Sachin (peak SRT was more about butchery but Kohli is very calculative with occasional death blow shots)

2. Kohli soaks up pressure moments in a game WAY better than Sachin (but that doesn't mean Kohli is a better pressure match player in an absolute way - I will tell you why)

3. Yesterday's knock could NOT have been played by SRT.

But its also true that:

1. Euphoria is clouding people's judgement. Reasons are getting manufactured.

2. Pakistanis love the term "match winner". SRT's played in a weak team against an ATG Pak lineup. So winning a lot of matches wasn't possible. Kohli played against a weak Pakistan so as opponents he looks far more scarier than SRT ever did. Imagine lone ranger Kohli against Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain chasing a tough total. The whole context changes, doesn't it?.

3. In the other thread, for bringing a balance to a one sided discussion, I made a real SRT vs Kohli comparison with results that are SOO shocking that no one came ahead and challenged it.

4. Someone then asked me to a peak SRT vs peak Kohli comparison and I did that and the results surprised me too. SRT beat Kohli DIRECTLY in almost all indicators WITHOUT having to adjust averages for era. In knockouts, he averages like TWICE more. In finals, same thing - TWICE more.

You can see my posts here (#49, #68, #70)

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...vs-Virat-Kohli-in-Limited-Over-Internationals

Kohli WILL ALWAYS be loved more than SRT by Pakistanis.

Even neutrals.

Why?

Cos results are there.

He soaks up pressure moments way better than SRT. So even when he flops in main moments, he still will get hailed as he now has a team who can qualify even when he screws up (this WC has been different where we were dependent on him out and out).

For those who say SRT was not a match winner but guys like Lara, Ponting and others were....#68 post in the above linked thread is gonna be a shock.

The best analysis is from [MENTION=136334]Shutdown Corner[/MENTION] (even though he is completely wrong about SRT's choking in pressure games - SRT does not choke in pressure games...he choks in pressure moments - still he NOTCHES up the runs in pressure games).

They are just different players. Kohli can do things that SRT cannot and vice versa.

Kohli was actually on track to beat SRT but the WC 2015 flop put a huge dampener on that. Now let's see how he goes about.

Regardless he was, is and WILL ALWAYS be more loved than SRT. That is partly the tragedy of SRT coupled with his own meekness when dealing with pressure moments in a game (he can score runs in pressure games but falters supreme pressure moments which fans are unforgiving about).

But one dude conquered time. Other dude is on the path.

All those who say Kohli is way better than SRT should just rewind the clock one year back and see how ABD was rated then and how he is rated now. One year back, he was rated nothing less than superman. Now he is rated as a bloody good player.

More than Tendulkar failing supreme pressure moments, it was the lack of support from the other end which undid most of his work. Kohli scores over Tendulkar in not getting out and carrying on, but pit him against his own teammates failing him, you would see Kohli conversion rate going down too.

In the 90s Tendulkar was an ominous sight for all of us.. those who deny it are delusional.. he was a terrific match winner.. the aura, the depnendency was too much. We all knew we had to get Tendulkar out and the famed Indian batting line up will crumble.. so much so that India winning with Tendulkar failing early, was a big news.

I hate to admit it, but people really needed to watch past players play in that context.

 

[carrom_ball]

Because Kohli's got swag

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli as a lone warrior failed too. I am not sure what you mean by "lone warrior". Other players' contribution is zero ?

Yesterday game was a lone warrior knock. If this would have been ABD he would have panicked especially during the phase when Yuvi was struggling to run faster. He would have looked to hit big ones and throw his wicket or might get involved in a run out. Even Sachin would have went that way but Kohli kept his cool and didn't get disturbed even till India had to score 50+ of last four overs.

 

[abc_to_xyz]

Bcuz Sachin had 2 decades of excellency behind him with facing and resisting the top quality bowlers that this generstion has failed to produced. He has been tested much.

 

[Texaco]

Yesterday game was a lone warrior knock. If this would have been ABD he would have panicked especially during the phase when Yuvi was struggling to run faster. He would have looked to hit big ones and throw his wicket or might get involved in a run out. Even Sachin would have went that way but Kohli kept his cool and didn't get disturbed even till India had to score 50+ of last four overs.

He played well, but it was duly supported by Yuvi and Dhoni.. in fact Dhoni started the counter attack when match was slipping. Kohli in last 3 overs just took the blow away.. credit to him.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

More than Tendulkar failing supreme pressure moments, it was the lack of support from the other end which undid most of his work. Kohli scores over Tendulkar in not getting out and carrying on, but pit him against his own teammates failing him, you would see Kohli conversion rate going down too.

In the 90s Tendulkar was an ominous sight for all of us.. those who deny it are delusional.. he was a terrific match winner.. the aura, the depnendency was too much. We all knew we had to get Tendulkar out and the famed Indian batting line up will crumble.. so much so that India winning with Tendulkar failing early, was a big news.

I hate to admit it, but people really needed to watch past players play in that context.

Yes..its true that its impossible to win games when batsmen crumble around you. In T20s, it can be coordinated but not possible in ODIs.

When India did crumble against NZ in NZ, we lost 0-4 INSPITE of Kohli scoring 2 centuries. lol.

But there is also truth in the statement that SRT in absolute pressure moments wasn't his usual self. Hard to bring that about in stats (and hard to articulate it too) but you can see that in his game. He notched up the runs in pressure games (which is important) but the crucial pressure moments, SRT was clearly inferior to Kohli.

Kohli is insane in staying not out and closing games so credit to him. But still has to do it in WCs and games that matter a lot.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

What are you saying mate ? With Tendulkar in, we always were worried that match wasn't won till he was there. He was the one-man army. Very rarely India won with him failing early.. you need to watch matches of the 90s.

Sure he was a bunny of Pakistani bowlers, but don't spread false information. India was too heavily dependent on him.. not seen that kind of dependence since or before.

I never thought Tendulkar was Pakistan's bunny. Don't think it is factually correct either. He played some brilliant knocks against us and yes, when he was in, India always had a chance.

My point is, Pakistan's belief levels when Tendulkar was in vs when Kohli (or Sehwag) is in - have been different.

My final point: Using sentences like "you need to watch matches of the 90s" or "don't spread false information" just pre-supposes that your grasp of the subject is far superior to mine - which may be the case but still, come on man!

 

[Texaco]

Yes..its true that its impossible to win games when batsmen crumble around you. In T20s, it can be coordinated but not possible in ODIs.

When India did crumble against NZ in NZ, we lost 0-4 INSPITE of Kohli scoring 2 centuries. lol.

But there is also truth in the statement that SRT in absolute pressure moments wasn't his usual self. Hard to bring that about in stats but you can see that in his game. He notched up the runs in pressure games but the crucial pressure moments, SRT was clearly inferior to Kohli.

Kohli is insane in staying not out and closing games so credit to him. But still has to do it in WCs and games that matter a lot.

As I said, Kohli scores over Tendulkar in not throwing it away in chasing.. and there is no doubt about it.. but that is highlighted more than it should.. Yuvraj and Dhoni have given him the sense of calm that he can go for his runs and they will mostly stay.. Yuvraj for all his faults, has stayed and made sure India didn't lose many wickets.. and you can't find a cooler customer than Dhoni .. (somehow Dhoni failed in epic Tendulkar chases like 175 against Australia, lol)


Kohli has some issues in batting first, he looks lost while setting up the score.. against Pakistan in WC 2015, he was clueless and rusty..

 

[Ab Fan]

He played well, but it was duly supported by Yuvi and Dhoni.. in fact Dhoni started the counter attack when match was slipping. Kohli in last 3 overs just took the blow away.. credit to him.

Dhoni hit one boundary at start and then off course the finishing shot. It was Kohli all the way. You know most players would get bogged down under pressure if you aren't able to convert 1s into 2s and 3s and the reqd rate was creeping. It was more of a lone warrior knock. No second thoughts there.

 

[Texaco]

I never thought Tendulkar was Pakistan's bunny. Don't think it is factually correct either. He played some brilliant knocks against us and yes, when he was in, India always had a chance.

My point is, Pakistan's belief levels when Tendulkar was in vs when Kohli (or Sehwag) is in - have been different.

My final point: Using sentences like "you need to watch matches of the 90s" or "don't spread false information" just pre-supposes that your grasp of the subject is far superior to mine - which may be the case but still, come on man!

Agree with your final point.. but I assumed it since I couldn't understand someone saying that about Tendulkar of the 90s.. the match used to end when he got out against us or any other team.

 

[mango_bite7]

Sachin was a kind of player who can set the tone of chasing a target for the rest of the batsmen and conventional ideology of cricket believes in same that top order sets the platform for middle and lower middle order to finish the game. But now this conventional thinking has been demolished by Virat Kohli who comes at no. 3 and finishes the game irrespective of how big the target is .

Sent from my Mi 4i using Tapatalk

 

[Texaco]

Dhoni hit one boundary at start and then off course the finishing shot. It was Kohli all the way. You know most players would get bogged down under pressure if you aren't able to convert 1s into 2s and 3s and the reqd rate was creeping. It was more of a lone warrior knock. No second thoughts there.

In fact, it was bad play from Kohli to let the match slip that far.. but I wouldn't hype on that since he did in fact play a blinder.

Match was slipping from you, and Dhoni started the counter attack with 2 fours.. that gave push to Kohli that all is on the line now.. he then murdered the hopeless Aussie bowlers.. club level attack.

 

[Ab Fan]

In fact, it was bad play from Kohli to let the match slip that far.. but I wouldn't hype on that since he did in fact play a blinder.

Match was slipping from you, and Dhoni started the counter attack with 2 fours.. that gave push to Kohli that all is on the line now.. he then murdered the hopeless Aussie bowlers.. club level attack.

They needed 40 of 3 overs. He played some really elegant shots and hit boundaries one after another. How is that club level attack. It was a brilliant knock.Anyways, Kohli was scoring even when Yuvi was there. So I don't know what you are trying to say.

 

[Texaco]

They needed 40 of 3 overs. He played some really elegant shots and hit boundaries one after another. How is that club level attack. It was a brilliant knock.Anyways, Kohli was scoring even when Yuvi was there. So I don't know what you are trying to say.

you completely missed my point.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

If only Tendulkar could have stayed till the end.

Chasing knocks:

141 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi....no one contributed. India lost.
93 against Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar and Saqlain in Hobart. No one contributed. India lost.
136 4th innings. No one contributed. India lost. This one understandable due to pain.
175 against Aus chasing 350. No one contributed. India lost.
90 against McGrath, Warne in 1996. No one contributed. India lost.

Just from the surface. Dunno how many more games are there.

Yes SRT's story has a bit of tragedy but damn...he gets out at the wrong time. Lots of times he does that.

As miandadrules says - if only SRT had that KILLER instinct, he would have won those tough looking crucial games and there would be no comparison between him and any other batsman.

 

[Ab Fan]

Compare this to Sachin 175 in Hyderabad or 136 in tests vs Chennai... Those were lone warrior knocks and at point India were about to win the game. He got small support from Raina and Mongia respectively in those games just like Kohli got from Yuvi. Now while reaching close to victory Sachin got bogged down and got out before finishing off game while Kohli ensured that he finishes off the game all on his own.This is where the difference arises and that's what makes Kohli better in handling pressure than Sachin or even ABD for sake.

 

[Ab Fan]

If only Tendulkar could have stayed till the end.

Chasing knocks:

141 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi....no one contributed. India lost.
93 against Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar and Saqlain in Hobart. No one contributed. India lost.
136 4th innings. No one contributed. India lost. This one understandable due to pain.
175 against Aus chasing 350. No one contributed. India lost.
90 against McGrath, Warne in 1996. No one contributed. India lost.

Just from the surface. Dunno how many more games are there.

Yes SRT's story has a bit of tragedy but damn...he gets out at the wrong time. Lots of times he does that.

As miandadrules says - if only SRT had that KILLER instinct, he would have won those tough looking crucial games and there would be no comparison between him and any other batsman.

Exactly. That's what I was saying. Kohli made sure that he does the job on his own.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Compare this to Sachin 175 in Hyderabad or 136 in tests vs Chennai... Those were lone warrior knocks and at point India were about to win the game. He got small support from Raina and Mongia respectively in those games just like Kohli got from Yuvi. Now while reaching close to victory Sachin got bogged down and got out before finishing off game while Kohli ensured that he finishes off the game all on his own.This is where the difference arises and that's what makes Kohli better in handling pressure than Sachin or even ABD for sake.

An undeniable fact against SRT.

In pressure MOMENTS, you can count on SRT to choke more often than not.

He scores in pressure games BETTER THAN ANY BATSMAN in the history of the game (barring Viv). Him and Viv have similar numbers in knockouts (both average and SR) but Viv scored in a WC final.

Kohli does great in pressure moments but hasn't performed in a lot of pressure games in ODI.

 

[MightyObnoxious]

I can think of couple reasons for that.
The most important being that we never watched Sachin in his prime. Another reason is that except for Centurion 2003 and Rawalpindi 2004, I don't remember Sachin dominating our bowling. We have that a arrogance that we on,y accept someone as a great if he performs against our bowling. And in the Sachin era, Lara was the one who dominated us far better, so we all thought, without even an argument, that he was the best batsmen of the time. And lastly, Pakistani belief is that if a batsman scores a 100 in LOI, team should win. Woth Sachin, maybe due to lack of support and poor bowling, that was not often the case.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

If only Tendulkar could have stayed till the end.

Chasing knocks:

141 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi....no one contributed. India lost.
93 against Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar and Saqlain in Hobart. No one contributed. India lost.
136 4th innings. No one contributed. India lost. This one understandable due to pain.
175 against Aus chasing 350. No one contributed. India lost.
90 against McGrath, Warne in 1996. No one contributed. India lost.

Just from the surface. Dunno how many more games are there.

Yes SRT's story has a bit of tragedy but damn...he gets out at the wrong time. Lots of times he does that.

As miandadrules says - if only SRT had that KILLER instinct, he would have won those tough looking crucial games and there would be no comparison between him and any other batsman.

Fact is, Tendulkar is considered one of the greatest batsman of all time - by most of his peers as well as ex-cricketers. So whatever a minority of cricket enthusiasts thinks is really, in the larger scheme, immaterial.

Some ex-cricketers, like Ian Chappel or Imran, did gingerly broach the topic of his lack of match winning knocks under pressure but then moved on. In the larger scale of his achievements, pointing this out would not have been worth the trouble.

So his legacy is secure and he has done much to earn it. Some of his batting was otherworldy.

Having said that, in yesterday's situation and many others, I'd have taken Kohli over Tendulkar 10 out of 10 times.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Fact is, Tendulkar is considered one of the greatest batsman of all time - by most of his peers as well as ex-cricketers. So whatever a minority of cricket enthusiasts thinks is really, in the larger scheme, immaterial.

Some ex-cricketers, like Ian Chappel or Imran, did gingerly broach the topic of his lack of match winning knocks under pressure but then moved on. In the larger scale of his achievements, pointing this out would not have been worth the trouble.

So his legacy is secure and he has done much to earn it. Some of his batting was otherworldy.

Having said that, in yesterday's situation and many others, I'd have taken Kohli over Tendulkar 10 out of 10 times.

Yeah...his legacy is secure. But what's scary (and frankly disappointing) is that he could have achieved more. A lot more.

The more we dig, the depth of Tendulkar keeps revealing itself.

But yesterday's knock by Kohli could not have been played by Tendulkar.

I have no doubts in my mind. Insane knock.

 

[MightyObnoxious]

Yeah...his legacy is secure. But what's scary (and frankly disappointing) is that he could have achieved more. A lot more.

The more we dig, the depth of Tendulkar keeps revealing itself.

But yesterday's knock by Kohli could not have been played by Tendulkar.

I have no doubts in my mind. Insane knock.

That's why I think, Kapil was right when he said that Sachin should have gotten out of Mumbai school of batting and rather modelled himself on the likes if Viv, which is essentially dominating bowlers more and scoring big 100's.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Agree with your final point.. but I assumed it since I couldn't understand someone saying that about Tendulkar of the 90s.. the match used to end when he got out against us or any other team.

Thank you.

And true. Match used to end when Tendulkar got out. Which I suppose is the broader point.

He truly was a joy to watch though - especially pre-injury.

 

[Texaco]

Compare this to Sachin 175 in Hyderabad or 136 in tests vs Chennai... Those were lone warrior knocks and at point India were about to win the game. He got small support from Raina and Mongia respectively in those games just like Kohli got from Yuvi. Now while reaching close to victory Sachin got bogged down and got out before finishing off game while Kohli ensured that he finishes off the game all on his own.This is where the difference arises and that's what makes Kohli better in handling pressure than Sachin or even ABD for sake.

Kohli failed to win a few matches too against NZ and SA when others didn't support him. If that 175 against Australia can fail, I don't think Kohli could have done it either.

Don't talk about 136.. as Kohli hasn't done much in Test cricket..

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Because Kohli is much better at chasing totals than sachin ever was
Kohli is punjabi
And he has manly looks and voice

What kind of ridiculous reasons are these to like Kohli more to Sachin?

 

[Texaco]

If only Tendulkar could have stayed till the end.

Chasing knocks:

141 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi....no one contributed. India lost.
93 against Wasim, Waqar, Akhtar and Saqlain in Hobart. No one contributed. India lost.
136 4th innings. No one contributed. India lost. This one understandable due to pain.
175 against Aus chasing 350. No one contributed. India lost.
90 against McGrath, Warne in 1996. No one contributed. India lost.

Just from the surface. Dunno how many more games are there.

Yes SRT's story has a bit of tragedy but damn...he gets out at the wrong time. Lots of times he does that.

As miandadrules says - if only SRT had that KILLER instinct, he would have won those tough looking crucial games and there would be no comparison between him and any other batsman.

The problem is: If Tendulkar had indeed won it, we wouldn't have been having the thread itself.

 

[MRSN]

Simply because Sachin wasn't as good match finisher as Kohli is. Sachin was good for scoring his hundreds. As I said even Afridi was more of a match winner for Pakistan than Sachin was for India.

 

[OS_89]

An undeniable fact against SRT.

In pressure MOMENTS, you can count on SRT to choke more often than not.

He scores in pressure games BETTER THAN ANY BATSMAN in the history of the game (barring Viv). Him and Viv have similar numbers in knockouts (both average and SR) but Viv scored in a WC final.

Kohli does great in pressure moments but hasn't performed in a lot of pressure games in ODI.

Quite true, but the assessment is a little unfair. It's not as though Sachin has always choked in pressure situations. He's won lots of games from tough situations.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's as god as Kohli when it comes to pressure clutch innings. Imo, no one is. Maybe Bevan and Dhoni. But that's it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Quite true, but the assessment is a little unfair. It's not as though Sachin has always choked in pressure situations. He's won lots of games from tough situations.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's as god as Kohli when it comes to pressure clutch innings. Imo, no one is. Maybe Bevan and Dhoni. But that's it.

Didn't always.

Never meant always.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli failed to win a few matches too against NZ and SA when others didn't support him. If that 175 against Australia can fail, I don't think Kohli could have done it either.

Don't talk about 136.. as Kohli hasn't done much in Test cricket..

The point is that more often than not Kohli would finish off a great knock to victory all on its own something which Sachin hasn't done that much. I back Kohli to take the team to victory in that 175 knock of Sachin because he simply has a better mental geniusness in his game. If suppose in future he fails to finish off some of his great knocks then this argument may change but as of now Kohli edges over Sachin in this aspect. As for that 136 in test, of course one would wonder if Kohli could play that knock itself but if Kohli would have stayed there and played such long inning, he would have finished off the game for his team. Obviously, Kohli is nowhere near Sachin in tests but in terms of mental geniusness, Kohli is superior to Sachin.

 

[Ab Fan]

Read ' more often than not'... Off course Kohli or Lara gives more confidence of winning it than Sachin or ABD. But that simply doesn't make the former better than latter.

 

[anuk]

Because kohli is a pure match winner and tendulkar was not. I never feared tendulkar, he was a great accumulator but not necessarily somebody who could take over a game like kohli can.

 

[Texaco]

The point is that more often than not Kohli would finish off a great knock to victory all on its own something which Sachin hasn't done that much. I back Kohli to take the team to victory in that 175 knock of Sachin because he simply has a better mental geniusness in his game. If suppose in future he fails to finish off some of his great knocks then this argument may change but as of now Kohli edges over Sachin in this aspect. As for that 136 in test, of course one would wonder if Kohli could play that knock itself but if Kohli would have stayed there and played such long inning, he would have finished off the game for his team. Obviously, Kohli is nowhere near Sachin in tests but in terms of mental geniusness, Kohli is superior to Sachin.

You are saying the same thing in different words. Mental strength point is not disputed at all.. however.. you need to understand the "lone warrior" is a pretty overloaded term. Tendulkar in the Sharjah final played lone warrior innings too.. right from the opening till the end.. but India won because other batsmen supported him.
If wickets keep falling around you, even Kohli loses it.

 

[Texaco]

Read ' more often than not'... Off course Kohli or Lara gives more confidence of winning it than Sachin or ABD. But that simply doesn't make the former better than latter.

How many matches has Lara won in Tests ?

 

[Saj]

I think the reason is that he displays the characteristics that appeal to Pakistani cricket lovers. Aggressive, in your face attitude and above all a match-winner.

 

[Ab Fan]

How many matches has Lara won in Tests ?

153 vs Aus was one of greatest knocks of all time , the QF knock vs SA and so on..

 

[Ab Fan]

You are saying the same thing in different words. Mental strength point is not disputed at all.. however.. you need to understand the "lone warrior" is a pretty overloaded term. Tendulkar in the Sharjah final played lone warrior innings too.. right from the opening till the end.. but India won because other batsmen supported him.
If wickets keep falling around you, even Kohli loses it.

Sachin in his 175 knock could have shown slight more resistance and won for his team. The game was not out of his control. Same for 136..I think you are very well understanding what I am saying and I can understand your points too. What I am talking is about mental strength only and you seem to be accepting that. I don't know why we are debating when you are getting my points and vice versa. Anyways not disputing the achievements of Sachin and I rate him higher than Lara or any of current batsmen.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Reason is that Pakistani bowlers did get the better of Tendulkar many a time. Also Tendulkar is not the match winner that Kohli is. Sachin could not chase an innings the way Kohli did against Australia. I do however rate Sachin higher since he played in an era where every team had atleast one world class bowler whereas nowadays bowling level is not all that.

Pak- Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain
AUS- McGrath and Warne
SL - Murali and Vaas
South Africa- Donald and Pollock
West Indies- ambrose and Walsh
England- Darren Gough

It would have been interesting to see Kohli play in the 90s. Oh well we will never know.

 

[Texaco]

Sachin in his 175 knock could have shown slight more resistance and won for his team.

What exactly is "slight more resistance" ? Anyone who plays that kind of innings will require support from the other batsmen, specially if he is the opener and carrying the entire innings on his own. Your reference point is already established when he had taken the innings that far and that too alone. Please reset your reference to the start of the innings.

Example : Inzy in 92 WC SF got out before sealing the match.. it's still regarded as the best ever WC innings under pressure.. see the similarity ?

 

[Texaco]

153 vs Aus was one of greatest knocks of all time , the QF knock vs SA and so on..

LOL.. there are very few innings of Lara where he "won" the Test match. Tendulkar played Lara's that QF knock against SA types of innings every other day in ODIs, specially batting 1st.

 

[KhanNn]

Kohli has that aggression about him that Pakistanis like, like the aggression of a fast bowler.


He's grown on me, didn't like it initially but now understood why he did it and helped shape his game.

Absolutely spot on!!!