Why do you believe in God?

[TalentSpotterPk]

[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] Pushpak Vimana is mentioned in Ramayana which was written around 3 thousand years ago .It was the ancient version of a chartered plane used by Lord Ram and Sita along with their associates to fly them direct from SL to Ayodhya
These things are meant to be taken with a pinch of salt as anyone can predict them with ease.Honestly how hard is it for someone to claim that in future there would be this transportation device which would let people to fly in air.For instance suppose in future we are somehow able to create a time machine , would that mean HG Wells was actually making a divine prophesy when he wrote his famous novel?

We are talking about dark age.

 

[TM Riddle]

We are talking about dark age.

Dark age for Europeans.India and Arabia were pretty advanced in 6th century.

 

[Heisenberg]

It's not incest and they are there is nothing immoral about it. I take my morals from my religion and it's allowed. Of course this doesn't mean it's recommended and yes there can be issues with children but this is more likely if this practice is continued for generations. This is going off topic but you can read my views on this subject on a thread related to this.

It's allowed or disallowed. For me it's immoral because it could be the reason for a baby's illness. Maybe all morals aren't related to religion.

 

[miandadrules]

It's not incest and they are there is nothing immoral about it. I take my morals from my religion and it's allowed. Of course this doesn't mean it's recommended and yes there can be issues with children but this is more likely if this practice is continued for generations. This is going off topic but you can read my views on this subject on a thread related to this.

So the likelihood was that such an act might have been considered immoral due to its negative impact but was legitimised by religious leaders.

That would mean that religion corrupted morality.

I don't know the answer but it would be interesting to see when consanguinity became prevalent in the middle-east and why.

 

[miandadrules]

So you believe Inscest can be morally fine.

Thank you .

This is why we take our morals from God and you don't .

You believe in Adam and Eve, you genius!

 

[KingKhanWC]

It's allowed or disallowed. For me it's immoral because it could be the reason for a baby's illness. Maybe all morals aren't related to religion.

Baby's can be ill being born to any partners. People have genetic issues which are unknown to the other parent.

I agree morality is subjective, which is why I get mine from God.

 

[miandadrules]

Baby's can be ill being born to any partners. People have genetic issues which are unknown to the other parent.

I agree morality is subjective, which is why I get mine from God.

So there is only a negligible difference in probability between incestual and non-related off-spring?

 

[Heisenberg]

So you believe Inscest can be morally fine.

Thank you .

This is why we take our morals from God and you don't .

Why? What's worse? Two people acting like lunatics together or two people coming together to make a deformed baby who has to pay for the parents mistakes?

So yes is this why you take morals from God?

 

[Heisenberg]

You believe in Adam and Eve, you genius!

That was too easy though. I didn't want it to be so easy

 

[Heisenberg]

Baby's can be ill being born to any partners. People have genetic issues which are unknown to the other parent.

I agree morality is subjective, which is why I get mine from God.

Not sure if serious.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You believe in Adam and Eve, you genius!

So lol

It wasn't outlawed then was it? You don't know the medical conditions of his family. God wouldn't have created and used this system to expand humanity if there was a risk of their immediate generations dying. Alchohol was also permitted previously. This is my point, we accept morality based on God's laws. The final messenger came to seal the laws, once and for all.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Historical evidence doesn't support this to be the reason for conversion to Islam. Far from it.

Can you please provide evidence of a mass "enlightenment" rather than military conquest and patronage?

In his book Al Jihad fil Islam Abul Ala Maududi sahib has also asserted that Islam has spread through Sword. Islamophobes have a similar stance aswell.


Read " Rebuttal to Maududian Philosophy "


Due to rules I cannot go ahead.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So there is only a negligible difference in probability between incestual and non-related off-spring?

I thought you was a doctor shouldn't be asking me.

 

[miandadrules]

In his book Al Jihad fil Islam Abul Ala Maududi sahib has also asserted that Islam has spread through Sword. Islamophobes have a similar stance aswell.


Read " Rebuttal to Maududian Philosophy "


Due to rules I cannot go ahead.

Are you saying Islam or any other religion has never been spread by the sword?

 

[miandadrules]

I thought you was a doctor shouldn't be asking me.

I'm asking you to clarify your statement.

 

[miandadrules]

So lol

It wasn't outlawed then was it? You don't know the medical conditions of his family. God wouldn't have created and used this system to expand humanity if there was a risk of their immediate generations dying. Alchohol was also permitted previously. This is my point, we accept morality based on God's laws. The final messenger came to seal the laws, once and for all.

How convenient. So incest was acceptable before but not now?

 

[KingKhanWC]

How convenient. So incest was acceptable before but not now?

It's not convienent.

This is my POINT. We could argue day and night what is moral and what is not. It's subjective to the individual, culture, society etc..

God could have instilled within us all what is moral but he chose not to. He chose to give these moral codes directly via his revelations and his prophets.

Again this is why I chose to follow his laws to know what is good and what is bad, what Im allowed to do and what im not.

I think we have come to the conclusion of this point, from my point of view.

 

[Heisenberg]

How convenient. So incest was acceptable before but not now?

God could have thought of a better system from the beginning tbf. These days a lot of Muslims don't even believe in it

 

[KingKhanWC]

God could have thought of a better system from the beginning tbf. These days a lot of Muslims don't even believe in it

Islam is the most practiced single way of life on this planet.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Are you saying Islam or any other religion has never been spread by the sword?

I am saying that Islam did not spread by Sword barring some misadventures of extremists/terrorists.


Same stands for all religions.

 

[miandadrules]

It's not convienent.

This is my POINT. We could argue day and night what is moral and what is not. It's subjective to the individual, culture, society etc..

God could have instilled within us all what is moral but he chose not to. He chose to give these moral codes directly via his revelations and his prophets.

Again this is why I chose to follow his laws to know what is good and what is bad, what Im allowed to do and what im not.

I think we have come to the conclusion of this point, from my point of view.

Which cultures indulge in incest? Which have indulged in history? Where is the subjectiveness on incest?

So, are you saying that if you were around at that time you would have indulged in incest as it would have been allowed?

 

[Heisenberg]

It's not convienent.

This is my POINT. We could argue day and night what is moral and what is not. It's subjective to the individual, culture, society etc..

God could have instilled within us all what is moral but he chose not to. He chose to give these moral codes directly via his revelations and his prophets.

Again this is why I chose to follow his laws to know what is good and what is bad, what Im allowed to do and what im not.

I think we have come to the conclusion of this point, from my point of view.

You keep following it then

http://www.dawn.com/news/1212811

 

[miandadrules]

I am saying that Islam did not spread by Sword barring some misadventures of extremists/terrorists.


Same stands for all religions.

Can you provide some evidence, especially from contemporary sources?

 

[Heisenberg]

Islam is the most practiced single way of life on this planet.

It helps that they reproduce more than others and leaving can never be an option unless you aren't from an Islamic country and you can take the risk.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Krishna wasn't even a prophet to begin with.He was a famous tribal chief of Yadu tribe (They are mentioned in Rigveda) whose exploits over time became so famous that they turned into legends and later people started worshipping him as an avatar of Lord Vishnu.
Besides there are no prophets in Hinduism or any dharmic religions.Its solely an Abrahamic concept . [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

Respect your belief but that is not my belief.

 

[TM Riddle]

Respect your belief but that is not my belief.

There are no prophets in Hinduism man.
They have avatars.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Can you provide some evidence, especially from contemporary sources?

I told you I do not have the privilege.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

There are no prophets in Hinduism man.
They have avatars.

Yes I know Modern Hindu beliefs.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Which cultures indulge in incest? Which have indulged in history? Where is the subjectiveness on incest?

So, are you saying that if you were around at that time you would have indulged in incest as it would have been allowed?

I think I have made my point why I follow God's laws and have spent a lot of time doing so. Unless you bring up something different in this topic, I have no wish to entertain any further questions and it's not because i cant which you will claim.

 

[TM Riddle]

Yes I know Modern Hindu beliefs.

Any source which provides proof that the original Sanatana Dharma provided for existence of prophets sent by Ishwar to spread the dharma on this Lok?

 

[Heisenberg]

I think I have made my point why I follow God's laws and have spent a lot of time doing so. Unless you bring up something different in this topic, I have no wish to entertain any further questions and it's not because i cant which you will claim.

So you are saying this is moral?

http://www.dawn.com/news/1212811

Good to know.

 

[miandadrules]

I think I have made my point why I follow God's laws and have spent a lot of time doing so. Unless you bring up something different in this topic, I have no wish to entertain any further questions and it's not because i cant which you will claim.

Why are you running away from the debate when I've asked you a pertinent question?

"If you were around back then would you have also indulged in incest as it was permissible by God?

Like you said you follow God's law.

Looking forward to your reply.

 

[miandadrules]

I told you I do not have the privilege.

Why not?

What is stopping you?

 

[KingKhanWC]

It helps that they reproduce more than others and leaving can never be an option unless you aren't from an Islamic country and you can take the risk.

Most poor nations have the highest rate. Interestingly Israel is one of the highest and is not Islamic or poor.

You're other point is based on no knowledge.

It's easy to attack when you have nothing to defend yourself. Are you an athiest?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why are you running away from the debate when I've asked you a pertinent question?

"If you were around back then would you have also indulged in incest as it was permissible by God?

Like you said you follow God's law.

Looking forward to your reply.

Running away from you? . I find you a weak debator tbh.

I'm not back then, im here now and follow what the law of God at this time. What next if I was on Mars.

 

[miandadrules]

Most poor nations have the highest rate. Interestingly Israel is one of the highest and is not Islamic or poor.

You're other point is based on no knowledge.

It's easy to attack when you have nothing to defend yourself. Are you an athiest?

Do you want some more straw or do you think the man is big enough?

 

[miandadrules]

Running away from you? . I find you a weak debator tbh.

I'm not back then, im here now and follow what the law of God at this time. What next if I was on Mars.

So would you have indulged in it?

 

[Heisenberg]

Most poor nations have the highest rate. Interestingly Israel is one of the highest and is not Islamic or poor.

You're other point is based on no knowledge.

It's easy to attack when you have nothing to defend yourself. Are you an athiest?

I am from an Islamic country. My passport and ID tells me I'm Muslim. Can I change that? So no I'm not and I'm a part of the most practiced way of life. Helps your argument doesn't it.

Do you live in a Muslim majority country?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

You believe in Adam and Eve, you genius!

Are you saying they were Siblings ?

 

[Heisenberg]

Are you saying they were Siblings ?

No but i think their children may have been siblings. May have.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So would you have indulged in it?

Just because something is permitted at a certain time doesn't mean if you are present you HAVE to indulge in it. It;s like debating with a child

You feel it's moral today with billions of people present. So iit's fair to assume you would have a go?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am from an Islamic country. My passport and ID tells me I'm Muslim. Can I change that? So no I'm not and I'm a part of the most practiced way of life. Helps your argument doesn't it.

Do you live in a Muslim majority country?

Where are you from? Are you an atheist?

 

[Heisenberg]

Running away from you? . I find you a weak debator tbh.

I'm not back then, im here now and follow what the law of God at this time. What next if I was on Mars.

You refuse to answer a question and call the other person a weak debator

Makes sense

 

[miandadrules]

Are you saying they were Siblings ?

KKWC is saying that they were siblings and that incest was acceptable then.

I don't believe they existed and all scientific proof points to that.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I am from an Islamic country. My passport and ID tells me I'm Muslim. Can I change that? So no I'm not and I'm a part of the most practiced way of life. Helps your argument doesn't it.

Do you live in a Muslim majority country?

I know your safety & security is at risk and that should be your first priority but you should give a hint. That gives posters an ease to know that from where you are coming from in the argument.

 

[Heisenberg]

Where are you from? Are you an atheist?

How is that relevant?

 

[miandadrules]

Just because something is permitted at a certain time doesn't mean if you are present you HAVE to indulge in it. It;s like debating with a child

You feel it's moral today with billions of people present. So iit's fair to assume you would have a go?

Why wouldn't you indulge in it if it wasn't forbidden? What's stopping you?

I would have a go at what?

 

[Heisenberg]

I know your safety & security is at risk and that should be your first priority but you should give a hint. That gives posters an ease to know that from where you are coming from in the argument.

That blasphemy thread should be a big enough hint.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why wouldn't you indulge in it if it wasn't forbidden? What's stopping you?

I would have a go at what?

It's permitted to marry four women, does that mean I would? No because I couldn't handle the nagging.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How is that relevant?

It will make it easier to reply with detail and relevance.

 

[miandadrules]

It's permitted to marry four women, does that mean I would? No because I couldn't handle the nagging.

So Adam and Eve and their offspring really really wanted to commit incest whereas you would have too much morality to do that?

 

[Musakhel]

For me the question always comes back to:

"If nothing happens without God's will, then why does God make the innocent newborn or babies suffer since the suffering must then be caused by God will?"

Or even "Why doesn't God prevent the suffering?"

And to those who claim that it's "A test from God", I ask "What aspect of the newborn is God testing by making (or allowing) the innocent newborn to suffer?"


I was a very devout Muslim until I could not reconcile this any more as I grew older.

How does God making his creation suffer negate his existence? your thinking is so flawed it is based on the premise that God must do as one thinks, can god not do what he wants?, when you explore the larger picture that morals don't even apply to god because everything he does with his right of being all powerful and all knowing.

 

[Heisenberg]

How does God making his creation suffer negate his existence? your thinking is so flawed it is based on the premise that God must do as one thinks, can god not do what he wants?, when you explore the larger picture that morals don't even apply to god because everything he does with his right of being all powerful and all knowing.

Because God claims to be most kind and most merciful etc etc

 

[Heisenberg]

It will make it easier to reply with detail and relevance.

I feel that would be dangerous. My family friend was killed over this in the recent past

 

[KingKhanWC]

So Adam and Eve and their offspring really really wanted to commit incest whereas you would have too much morality to do that?

What kind of reading have you been doing on the subject? Adam and Eve weren't siblings. Dont know where you got this idea from.

Their offspring did what was required for humanity to develop.

You seem to duck questions like a bouncer but love asking them. So I ask again, you say it's morally ok right now with billions of people to choose from, so you would I assume?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

KKWC is saying that they were siblings and that incest was acceptable then.

I don't believe they existed and all scientific proof points to that.

What GOD is this GOD who changes His morality and moral code with time ?


This is quite ridiculous. If One insists than to have sexual intimacy with your blood relations is incest and worst thing to do than how on Earth you can associate it with the first Prophet ? I wouldn't even call him a Man in terms of Morals and believing in such a disgusting person to be a Prophet is out of contest.


Holy Quran does not say that :

1. Prophet Adam or his wife Eve were not born in normal way.

2. It does not say that they were Siblings.

3. It does not say there were No Homo Sapiens before them.

4. Holy Quran calls Prophet Adam Pbuh as a " Successor ". Successor is someone who succeeds. For a Homo Sapien to Succeed there needs to be human race and humans he Succeeds.


Prophet Adam & Eve were two random homo sapiens in Human Race. There have been Billions of Homo sapiens who got born and died. Science cannot trace each one of them.

Science cannot say that a person X and person Y did not exist in Human history.

 

[Musakhel]

Because God claims to be most kind and most merciful etc etc

And most powerful therefore Meaning what he does is with his full right to do as he wills.

God is most kind because everything belongs to him, he creates within us the action of kindness, Without God Concepts such as mercy and kindness do not exist, you having mercy on a fellow human being is only because God created within you the choice to do kindness.

 

[miandadrules]

What kind of reading have you been doing on the subject? Adam and Eve weren't siblings. Dont know where you got this idea from.

Their offspring did what was required for humanity to develop.

You seem to duck questions like a bouncer but love asking them. So I ask again, you say it's morally ok right now with billions of people to choose from, so you would I assume?

I would what? What are you asking?

So you wouldn't do what you had to for humanity?

 

[Heisenberg]

And most powerful therefore Meaning what he does is with his full right to do as he wills.

God is most kind because everything belongs to him, he creates within us the action of kindness, Without God Concepts such as mercy and kindness do not exist, you having mercy on a fellow human being is only because God created within you the choice to do kindness.

Sounds like fun

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

That blasphemy thread should be a big enough hint.

There are Millions of Muslims who believe that No Blasphemy Law should exist.

There are millions of Muslims who believe that in Islam there is No worldly punishment for Blasphemy or Apostasy.


Muslims have the right to leave Islam. One makes his choice as per his own brain cells, thought process, study, observations etc.

 

[Heisenberg]

There are Millions of Muslims who believe that No Blasphemy Law should exist.

There are millions of Muslims who believe that in Islam there is No worldly punishment for Blasphemy or Apostasy.


Muslims have the right to leave Islam. One makes his choice as per his own brain cells, thought process, study, observations etc.

But you know even saying that is dangerous for you. Where you live. Where we live. That's the reality of it

 

[shaz619]

So, I have finished me dinner

Where is the proof of theological and ideological in-depth research, evidence of said literature which has been accounted for and other various references which prove that God does not exist?



I think atheists and especially those whom have left a religion always argue with the believers to make themselves feel better about their own sins which they freely commit because it keeps their conscious clear with no one to answer to.

 

[Specialisttailender]

You guys better start praying because there will be only one champions tomorrow.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

You guys better start praying because there will be only one champions tomorrow.

Who ?

 

[miandadrules]

So, I have finished me dinner

Where is the proof of theological and ideological in-depth research, evidence of said literature which has been accounted for and other various references which prove that God does not exist?



I think atheists and especially those whom have left a religion always argue with the believers to make themselves feel better about their own sins which they freely commit because it keeps their conscious clear with no one to answer to.

Shame you can't substantiate your claims.

So the only thing stopping you from all those things is the fear of God?

 

[shaz619]

Shame you can't substantiate your claims.

So the only thing stopping you from all those things is the fear of God?

But I have not confirmed my belief in God, why do you assume so; it's a shame you can't digest the truth from a neutral, I see through people like you.

And am yet to get the proofs from you, nice way to escape from giving a valid justification with the whole "no onus on me" rhetoric

 

[miandadrules]

But I have not confirmed my belief in God, why do you assume so; it's a shame you can't digest the truth from a neutral, I see through people like you.

And am yet to get the proofs from you, nice way to escape from giving a valid justification with the whole "no onus on me" rhetoric

So what is stopping you if are undecided?

 

[shaz619]

So what is stopping you if are undecided?

Am conducting an investigation at the moment, it's in its early phases; it's a personal journey

 

[miandadrules]

Am conducting an investigation at the moment, it's in its early phases; it's a personal journey

So you haven't needed the fear of God from stopping you doing all those things thus far?

 

[shaz619]

So you haven't needed the fear of God from stopping you doing all those things thus far?

Am not sure to be honest, I haven't looked into that at the moment

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] still the answer to the big question, your proof for god's lack of existence?

 

[miandadrules]

Am not sure to be honest, I haven't looked into that at the moment

So you might indulge in incest?

So you claim that fear of God stops you but it hasn't stopped you. You've chosen not to. So why is it hard to comprehend that an atheist would act differently?

 

[miandadrules]

[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] still the answer to the big question, your proof for god's lack of existence?

I stated that I want to use the strongest tool we have to adjudicate and that is the scientific model.

If you can provide a superior one then we can use that.

 

[shaz619]

So you might indulge in incest?

So you claim that fear of God stops you but it hasn't stopped you. You've chosen not to. So why is it hard to comprehend that an atheist would act differently?

These are your own words and assumptions not mine if that is your understanding from my post then it just speaks volumes of your interpretations in general and the sought of things you like to get up to

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

But you know even saying that is dangerous for you. Where you live. Where we live. That's the reality of it

Yes. Best wishes & prayers for your safety although you don't believe in prayers.

Atleast now from debate sake I know clearly that why you were so adamant not to disown 6 years old narrations.


We are losing collectively. You are what ? Only 21. Few years younger than me. Earlier one of my Ex Shia Muslim friend who is only 18-19 was cherishing after eating a certain pizza type for the firstime and since He lives in USA He openly declared his new orientation.


Killing people for this won't stop it. One cannot forcibly keep people in any religion. That is Unethical, Immoral & against basic fundamental human rights.


You are still a younger brother and i still respect and love you. I have no issue debating with you anything at all. Any Criticism, any allegation, any claim, any insult....... I am more than willing to bear all with patience and debate with you anytime but I strictly advise you not to debate on subjects of GOD's existence or critique God because your orientation has been established. If you were not in Pakistan , BD, Indonesia, algeria etc than I wouldn't have advised you this.

You are only 21 and you have a life ahead of you. You have to make a career for yourself and for your family too. So your safety is priority number 1. I advice you not to post in such threads here or anywhere else and also not on social media. And also don't share your Orientation with your Cousins or relatives, just share it with your blood incase they are not extremists.

 

[shaz619]

I stated that I want to use the strongest tool we have to adjudicate and that is the scientific model.

If you can provide a superior one then we can use that.

You should explain this scientific model and it's constituents with regards to the lack of God's existence, also feel free to present in-depth research, references and other pieces of evidence

 

[miandadrules]

So, I have finished me dinner

Where is the proof of theological and ideological in-depth research, evidence of said literature which has been accounted for and other various references which prove that God does not exist?



I think atheists and especially those whom have left a religion always argue with the believers to make themselves feel better about their own sins which they freely commit because it keeps their conscious clear with no one to answer to.

These are your own words and assumptions not mine if that is your understanding from my post then it just speaks volumes of your interpretations in general and the sought of things you like to get up to

You said that they feel bad because they commit these sins. So, we can indeed that the only thing that stops people doing some acts is the feeling of sin.

Yet you haven't. So, why are atheist different to you if you're indecided?

 

[Heisenberg]

Yes. Best wishes & prayers for your safety although you don't believe in prayers.

Atleast now from debate sake I know clearly that why you were so adamant not to disown 6 years old narrations.


We are losing collectively. You are what ? Only 21. Few years younger than me. Earlier one of my Ex Shia Muslim friend who is only 18-19 was cherishing after eating a certain pizza type for the firstime and since He lives in USA He openly declared his new orientation.


Killing people for this won't stop it. One cannot forcibly keep people in any religion. That is Unethical, Immoral & against basic fundamental human rights.


You are still a younger brother and i still respect and love you. I have no issue debating with you anything at all. Any Criticism, any allegation, any claim, any insult....... I am more than willing to bear all with patience and debate with you anytime but I strictly advise you not to debate on subjects of GOD's existence or critique God because your orientation has been established. If you were not in Pakistan , BD, Indonesia, algeria etc than I wouldn't have advised you this.

You are only 21 and you have a life ahead of you. You have to make a career for yourself and for your family too. So your safety is priority number 1. I advice you not to post in such threads here or anywhere else and also not on social media. And also don't share your Orientation with your Cousins or relatives, just share it with your blood incase they are not extremists.

Thanks brother.

 

[shaz619]

You said that they feel bad because they commit these sins. So, we can indeed that the only thing that stops people doing some acts is the feeling of sin.

Yet you haven't. So, why are atheist different to you if you're indecided?

I don't understand your question? can you clarify it please

 

[miandadrules]

You should explain this scientific model and it's constituents with regards to the lack of God's existence, also feel free to present in-depth research, references and other pieces of evidence

According to the scientific model you prove something's existence not disprove it's existence.

Here's a start.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence