Why have the "Fab 4" been so poor in ICC World Cup 2023?

[mominsaigol]

By fab 4 I mean

-Joe root (Eng)
-Babar Azam( Pak)
- Steven Smith (Aus)
- Kane Williamson ( NZ)

To put into perspective these are the stats of the fab 4 in the 2019 wc.

1) Babar 2019 wc: Avg 67 and Sr of 87, Including 3 50's and 1 100 to his name.

2) Joe root 2019 wc: avg 61 and sr 89, including 2 100's and 3 50's to his name.

3) Steven Smith 2019 wc: avg 37 and sr 85 including 4 50's to his name

4) Kane Williamson 2019 wc: avg 84 and sr 74 including 2 100's and 2 50's to his name

2023 Wc Stats

1) Babar 2023 Wc: Avg 30 and Sr 77, including 3 50's to his name

2) Joe root 2023 Wc: Avg 29 and Sr 93, including 2 50's to his name

3) Steven Smith 2023 Wc: Avg 26 and sr 86, including 1 50 to his name

4) Kane Williamson 2023 wc: only played one game so can't really say but ravindra and Mitchell have been far better bats then Williamson atm.

So? Why have some of the stars of 2019 and in smith's case 2015 completly failed to perform in 2023 wc? Despite India being a batting friendly pitch?

Honorable mention since bavuma is also considered as a fab 5: Jes only averaged 22 this wc lol, even worse then Smith.

 

[mominsaigol]

BTW this isn't a hate thread so don't only focus on Babar.

He had stats in 2019. 2023 wc he's been poor however, so whats the reason for the fab 4 failing this cup?

My guess is

Babar: Captaincy pressure
Williamson: Injury
Smith and root: Rusty for not playing for so long.

 

[Mockingbird]

Fab 4 is a concept only in Test cricket - Root, Smith, possibly even Williamson are not ODI Fab 4s - not when you have Qdk, Sharma in the fray.

I would bet even Babar is not Fab 4 - I mean what is his record against top teams in away matches? How does he make the cut of Fab 4?

 

[Cover Drive Six]

I bet Bavuma will outperform all of them.

 

[Hitman]

Babar in Fab 4? This has got to be a joke!

 

[sweep_shot]

It is because they were always overrated and some of them are clearly past their peaks now.

 

[mominsaigol]

Babar in Fab 4? This has got to be a joke!

Bro fab 4 as in the players considered as the gun players for each team.

Williamson, Smith, Root and Babar all bat at no 3 and all are considered the best players for their team.

Kohli was never a part of the fab 3 or fab 4, he was always several leagues >.

Babar is overrated but icc wise he fits in this category and is no 1 on their boards or well no 2 now after shubman replaces him.

I said to discuss why they've performed poorly. Not to turn this into another Babar hate thread and justify why he's overrated. I already know he's overrated lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

Fab 4 is a concept only in Test cricket - Root, Smith, possibly even Williamson are not ODI Fab 4s - not when you have Qdk, Sharma in the fray.

I would bet even Babar is not Fab 4 - I mean what is his record against top teams in away matches? How does he make the cut of Fab 4?

Bro Fab 4 does not mean best players lol .

From 2015 people normally established Fab 4 as the most marketable players batting at no 3 or opening for their teams.

In 2019 Fab 4 was typically considered to be root, Smith, Babar and Williamson. These players irrespective if their goats or medicore, their perception by icc is that their the main dawgs of their teams

Kohli was never a part of the fab 4 despite batting at 3, because he's clearly leagues >.

Similarly in 2015, Williamson, Smith, Sangakara and amla were considered the Fab 4.

 

[shortbread]

Babar has been doing well, rest of the batting line up are letting him down. He doesn't have the freedom to freely attack, him and Rizwan always under pressure carrying the entire batting line-up.

 

[Mockingbird]

Bro Fab 4 does not mean best players lol .

From 2015 people normally established Fab 4 as the most marketable players batting at no 3 for their teams.

In 2019 Fab 4 was typically considered to be root, Smith, Babar and Williamson. These players irrespective if their goats or medicore, their perception by icc is that their the main dawgs of their teams

Kohli was never a part of the fab 4 despite batting at 3, because he's clearly leagues >.

Dont understand- who will go to watch Root or Smith in ODI cricket?

 

[mominsaigol]

Guys let me rephrase. Just discuss why the afromentioned players performed poorly and not who should be ranked here and their amd what your personal opinions are.

In context of this thread " Fab 4" are the players who bat at no 3 for their teams and are considered the star players.

Kohli is excluded cause he was obviously leagues >>>

 

[mominsaigol]

Dont understand- who will go to watch Root or Smith in ODI cricket?

Smith was gun in 2015, root played crucial knocks in 2019.

In the context of this thread, gab 4 is referring to the star batsmen of their respective teams batting at no 3.

Kohli excluded for being leagues >>>>>>

 

[mominsaigol]

Can one of the moderators rename the thread to babar, Williamson, Root and Smith?

Since posters are complaining left and right over name tags?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Steve Smith and Kane are not good LOI batsmen. Smith has regressed so much in the past few years that I feel he should stay at the crease more to hamper Aus chances of winning.
Babar is doing Okay. He is just playing match winning knocks. He is scoring fifties though. Not all that bad.
Joe Root like all England batsmen has lost his brains.

 

[jnaveen1980]

More like Crap 4 lol

 

[mominsaigol]

Sigh, Okay trolling it is, ig arguments don't exist. My turn to troll.

Babar bad, Horrible player, worst to ever exist. How dare he be in the fab 4, Trash human, Fodder dosti yaari captain. Never shpuld have existed in the first place

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Williamson should be replaced with someone like Blundell or Finn or maybe Michael Bracewell. It's selfish of him to be staying there when he can't play. Seems like the end of Root in LOIs. Smith has played 2 good knocks but not a single decisive one he usually plays. Won't count him out in the knockouts. But Aus seems to have lost faith in him and are prefering Marsh over him for no.3 spot.
Kohli has been on fire. Babar has done alright but well below his usual standards.

 

[160KPH]

The Fab 4 was a name given by a commentator to the group of dominant batsmen rising at the same time: Kohli/Smith/Williamson/Root.

Root/Smith/Williamson aren’t having a good tournament because they’re past their peak. They were all really good and clutch LOI batsmen. Root played a big role in their 2019 WC. Williamson played a massive role in the semi final win against India in 2019. In fact, it was really only him and Ross Taylor who put up and runs at all.

The best two batsmen of the Fab 4 are:

Kohli who has had dominant tournaments in the group stages but has yet to have a run in the knockout rounds as good as Steven Smith had in 2015.

Steven Smith who top scored in both the Quarter Final and Semi Final in 2015 WC and guided his team home in the final while hitting the game winning runs.

You can’t include Babar in the Fab 4, he came up in the generation of batsmen immediately after the top 4. Who knows why Babar is having a bad tournament, but it seems to have to do with his weakness to spin. He’s been impressive in overseas conditions where the ball swings but not as good in the subcontinent in spinning conditions. He’s also unfamiliar with Indian conditions so maybe that players a further role.

The original Fab 4 will continue to decline as they are all past their prime, but who knows which way Babar will go after this. Maybe he works on his weakness to spin and has dominant CT run in 2025 and a great WC in 2027. Or maybe it’s something he can’t improve further and will never be successful in spinning conditions or against really top tier leg spinners.

In terms of T20 there is no competition - Kohli is the best T20 batsmen in the Fab 4.

In Test, Steven Smith is by far the best batsmen.

In ODIs, it depends solely what you value. Kohli has been overall much more dominant but Steven Smith has had the way better knockout stage performances.

 

[deltexas]

They are past their peaks except babar. These 3 should retire or be dropped

 

[mominsaigol]

The Fab 4 was a name given by a commentator to the group of dominant batsmen rising at the same time: Kohli/Smith/Williamson/Root.

Root/Smith/Williamson aren’t having a good tournament because they’re past their peak. They were all really good and clutch LOI batsmen. Root played a big role in their 2019 WC. Williamson played a massive role in the semi final win against India in 2019. In fact, it was really only him and Ross Taylor who put up and runs at all.

The best two batsmen of the Fab 4 are:

Kohli who has had dominant tournaments in the group stages but has yet to have a run in the knockout rounds as good as Steven Smith had in 2015.

Steven Smith who top scored in both the Quarter Final and Semi Final in 2015 WC and guided his team home in the final while hitting the game winning runs.

You can’t include Babar in the Fab 4, he came up in the generation of batsmen immediately after the top 4. Who knows why Babar is having a bad tournament, but it seems to have to do with his weakness to spin. He’s been impressive in overseas conditions where the ball swings but not as good in the subcontinent in spinning conditions. He’s also unfamiliar with Indian conditions so maybe that players a further role.

The original Fab 4 will continue to decline as they are all past their prime, but who knows which way Babar will go after this. Maybe he works on his weakness to spin and has dominant CT run in 2025 and a great WC in 2027. Or maybe it’s something he can’t improve further and will never be successful in spinning conditions or against really top tier leg spinners.

In terms of T20 there is no competition - Kohli is the best T20 batsmen in the Fab 4.

In Test, Steven Smith is by far the best batsmen.

In ODIs, it depends solely what you value. Kohli has been overall much more dominant but Steven Smith has had the way better knockout stage performances.

To be completly fair to babar, I think its captaincy pressure, cause its not just spin, he's been bowled out to pace as well.

Captaincy is clearly taking a toll on him cause he's even getting out on hit me balls.

As much as I thrash babar around, to his credit, he had a gun 2019 wc. The stats are their for all to see.

The rest are past due date though

 

[Ab Fan]

Fab 4 was coined by Martin Crowe first and it was specifically for four young batsman who had potential to become greats of the game - Kohli, Smith, Root and Williamson. They did went on to become greats due to test performance.

In white ball cricket though, Kohli was always miles ahead and what he achieved between 2012-14 really put him as strong contender for ODI great as he gave competition to the likes of de Villiers, Sangakkara and Amla. Then he again had another great peak from 2016-18 and is now finally peaking up at World Cup 2023.

Smith, Root and Williamson never really had such peaks. Smith and Williamson are clutch ODI players but never scored consistently. Root was more consistent than both but he often got outshined by other batsman in his team like Buttler, Stokes, Bairstow and Roy because England played a lot of ODIs on flat belters mostly.

Babar is undoubtedly more consistent than the other three and is a prolific run scorer who had good World Cup in 2019 but his failure in this World Cup puts a question mark on his legacy.

As ODI batsman among active players, the top level batsmen are Kohli and Rohit only.

A notch below you have David Warner who has performed in multiple World Cups and has a good average and strike rate for an opener.

Then you have the likes of Qdk, Babar, Buttler, Miller, Root, Bairstow, Williamson, Conway, Smith, Maxwell and several other players with not much really to choose from them. All these belong to the league of very good players.

Out of these, Buttler had a chance to go one level up but he has bottled it this time and in World Cup 2019 too, he was a failure except in finals where he played supporting role to Stokes.

Qdk was behind all of these names as he was total failure in 2015 and 2019 World Cup but this World Cup he has been absolute beast and has stamped his position as the third best opener of this generation after Rohit and Warner.

 

[160KPH]

To be completly fair to babar, I think its captaincy pressure, cause its not just spin, he's been bowled out to pace as well.

Captaincy is clearly taking a toll on him cause he's even getting out on hit me balls.

As much as I thrash babar around, to his credit, he had a gun 2019 wc. The stats are their for all to see.

The rest are past due date though

Yeah, I think it could be a number of reasons. He was good in England in the 2019 WC and is quite good in England in Test as well. It could be the captaincy pressure, it could be him not being able to handle the pressure of a hostile crowd, it could be the conditions, I’m not really sure. What I do know is that if he wants to go to the next level he has to conquer whatever it is stopping him. All batsmen go out of form, but the great ones come back strong. Also, one thing I notice that he lacks is the kind of power game Kohli has. Once Kohli gets settled he can score at a really high SR while during this WC I’ve noticed Babar getting out multiple times when trying to increase the SR. Maybe if Babar hits the weight room and puts on 15 lbs of muscle, he’ll be able to hit more 6’s

I think Babar will have 2 more big ICC tournaments to rewrite his legacy for the positive. The sad thing about sports is that most of the time, you’re remembered for the thing you did most recently. Right now everyone is forgetting the 2019 WC and only remembering his performance in this one. Honestly, more than anything though, if he goes to Australia and has a dominant batting series and somehow even drew or won a match, it would do wonders to his legacy.

 

[MenInG]

Let's see Babar v KW today....

 

[mominsaigol]

Let's see Babar v KW today....

Tbf, as much I want to slander babar, if Williamson outperforms babar today, it isn't inherently because he's superior.

Unlike other fab 4 members who are out of it, Williamson is a solid bat, his biggest issue is he's slow as molasses but the spinners are bowling him half trackers so even Williamson would strike at 110+ lol.

If Williamson outdoes babar today its cause babar has to face the likes of Boult, Southee and satner whereas Williamson has to Bully agha, Chacha, Hasan and Rauf

 

[hassan918]

Williamson has only played 2 matches in this world cup so far and he has scored 78 not out and 95 runs respectively in these two innings. Babar Azam has also made some decent contributions but his strike rate is the issue. Smith and Root have been well below-par in this world cup.

 

[160KPH]

Williamson demonstrated his class today. Some beautiful shots coming back from injury. Babar played great too, 100+ SR, got Fakhar Zaman on strike, and kept his wicket which is really important for DLS calculations.

Good day for both of them.

Even Steven Smith played an important 44, although he should have gone on to score more. The only one who really failed today was Joe Root.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

first we have to analyse who are the fab 4 in this world cup actually.

 

[mominsaigol]

first we have to analyse who are the fab 4 in this world cup actually.

Well the classic fab 4 are Williamson, Root, Smith and Babar.

Ig the new fab 4 are

Ravindra, Makram(Quinton Is retiring so no point), Shubman Gill and Fakhar

 

[160KPH]

Well the classic fab 4 are Williamson, Root, Smith and Babar.

Ig the new fab 4 are

Ravindra, Makram(Quinton Is retiring so no point), Shubman Gill and Fakhar

Babar isn’t in the classic Fab 4, he debuted after Martin Crowe wrote the article coming up with the idea of the Fab 4. And it was only meant to be related to Test Cricket.

Also I don’t think Markram and Fakhar can be in the same conversation as Ravindra and Gill. They’re both in two separate generations of batsmen. Both are much older and already on their second ODI WC’s.
If you were to make a list of the same generation batsmen as Gill with lots of expectations it would be like Shubman Gill, Rachin Ravindra, Harry Brook, and whoever else.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

BTW this isn't a hate thread so don't only focus on Babar…..

This isn’t a hate reply either, but once you put Babar in the Fab 4, you can’t but expect proper to question the basis of the thread.

 

[mominsaigol]

This isn’t a hate reply either, but once you put Babar in the Fab 4, you can’t but expect proper to question the basis of the thread.

I would rename the thread to babar, Williamson, Smith and Root if I could

 

[Suleiman]

Fab 4 isn’t even a thing anymore bro. That term was relevant up until 2016-17 and even then it felt forced.

Williamson and Root simply weren’t at the same level. They were above average in all formats. Kohli and Smith at least went above and beyond every other batsman in at least 1 format for a period.

They are past their peaks now, tho Kohli is having a mini resurgence

 

[FearlessRoar]

Except for Virat, all have been poor, while Kane Williamson played some decent knocks. And Joe Root has been a disaster.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Age. Kane was never a sizzling ODI batsman. Since One dayers are much closer to Tests he can play a slightly aggressive Test innings and do the job for NZ. As far as Smith goes he is also another test batsman who plays ODi similar to Tests. Right now his test form is not that great following Ashes. Hence his ODI form is also not great. Root victim of Bazball lol He played all kind of funky shots in tests. Come the one dayers he switched to survival mode for some reason. May be he is unable to adapt to the format. This adaptability is what sets Kohli apart.