Why is it not allowed for a father to support and love his own child?

[Vega]

If child is born out of wedlock, then father is neither allowed to give his name to the child, nor he can give his love to the child, nor he can take any part in upbringing of the child, nor he could support the child/mother.


Here is one letter from a Muslim boy (father):

Link

As-salaamu Alaikum Wa Rahmat Allah Barakatu

I am a muslim man since I was born alhumdulillah but I went through a rough patch in my life and I caused zinnah with a non muslim woman out of wedlock. I have now turned to Allah and have been asking for repentance. I have recently found that the person I was in a relationship with is pregnant and wants to keep the child.

My family do not know about my situation and I do not want them to know. In islam, am I allowed to not know this child and not pay child support.

InshaAllah you can help me with this situation as I do not know what to do

-Ali Smith


Now look at this reply from Sister Aria:

I feel so sorry for this child who is going to be born in a world where his father does not want to be a father.
Islam is a wonderful religion teaching you about to be good, responsible,respect parents and other people, charity.......
Thinking about the last word: charity and help others. How are you ever going to be a good muslim when you do not want to provide some money for child support to your own flesh and blood.
This child is sinless even though he is born out of wedlock. Just become a mature man and learn how to be responsible not be more preocupied how to avoid to be involved in his life physically and financially or keep him away from knowing is grandparents.
If you start you life with a lie you will live in a lie your entire life.


Sister Vyne wrote:

I am in the boat with the woman who were not supported by the man who proposed to marry me before he pregnant me but when i got pregnant he did a lot of promises and no single penny received. The first wife knows everything but the man is not man enough to send even rhs1 to his child in me and yet so proud to be an ******* (sorry for the term). I have nothing against islam even i am apt to convert so we can marry but until now my child is almost 2yrs old,still chasing her father. What on earth we have this kind of person so inhuman and heartless for their child. I pity their souls.


Brother Abdulaziz wrote:

I'm a Saudi guy who has abandoned my 2 ur old son in Denver colorado. I have not sent one dollar in payment to him even when his mother asked me for it. When I left I left them homeless evicted from our apartment and I promised to send my ex money when I got backhome. However as soon as I returned my mother started getting into my head. She made me promise her not to send even 1 dollar to my son. I listen to her Bc in my religion I don't want to disobey my parents. My sons mother came to me in November and told me she couldn't get my sons u.s. Passport until I sign authorizing it. My parents said not to sign. My ex is really angry with me because now she has to go to court and spend money getting full custody of my son so she can get the passport. She wants to move to Dubai for a job opportunity that's why my son needs his passport. I told her I would sign the paper but for 5 months I just lied to her , now she's very angry with me. But just like the guy above I don't care . I made my parents happy so I feel like I did nothing wrong.

Sister hinaz_tears wrote:

This happens so often...i am living a simlar life...my bf left me wen our daughter was born she is almost four mashaAllah.... Bt hurts me knowing she will never get to see her real father more so her real grandparents....who knows how much longer they will be around.....


Sister Sarah wrote:
Hi I have had a child with a Muslim man he says because we aren't married he doesn't have to pay and he won't see his child is this what Islam says? I'm really confused I find it hard to believe


Sister Elle wrote:
I am an adult woman now but born out of wedlock to an Arab Muslim man that came to see me 1 time when I was 4 and abandoned me. I will tell you first hand the devastation this causing to children. I've searched for my father most of my adult life and realize now that I must accept that he did not nor does he want to be found.

 

[Slog]

What the heck is this OP about

 

[Itachi]

What the heck is this OP about

Why a father isn't allowed to support an illegitimate child.

But the quoted texts says a different story altogether contradiction to title.

 

[Vega]

What the heck is this OP about

Why a father isn't allowed to support an illegitimate child.

But the quoted texts says a different story altogether contradiction to title.

I thought you knew the Basic Issue that Islamic Sharia orders that:

(1) Father could not give his name to his illegitimate child.
(2) Father is not allowed to take part in any type of his/her upbringing and education.
(3) Father is not allowed to give him/her part in his inheritance.
(4) Father is not allowed to meet him/her.

That is why, many western mothers are going through these situations (along with the Muslims fathers), while the children are the ones who are suffering the most in name of being illegitimate.

 

[Slog]

I thought you knew the Basic Issue that Islamic Sharia orders that:

(1) Father could not give his name to his illegitimate child.
(2) Father is not allowed to take part in any type of his/her upbringing and education.
(3) Father is not allowed to give him/her part in his inheritance.
(4) Father is not allowed to meet him/her.

That is why, many western mothers are going through these situations (along with the Muslims fathers), while the children are the ones who are suffering the most in name of being illegitimate.

Ok but what’s the question. If it’s an Islamic jurisprudence question then this is probably not the correct forum

 

[miandadrules]

I thought you knew the Basic Issue that Islamic Sharia orders that:

(1) Father could not give his name to his illegitimate child.
(2) Father is not allowed to take part in any type of his/her upbringing and education.
(3) Father is not allowed to give him/her part in his inheritance.
(4) Father is not allowed to meet him/her.

That is why, many western mothers are going through these situations (along with the Muslims fathers), while the children are the ones who are suffering the most in name of being illegitimate.

I think you’re conflating a number of different issues.

You need to clarify exactly what your stating with references (if needed).

 

[Vega]

It is copy paste because he has copied the letter from the link that he has provided.

Some people post on Internet forums but cannot read. The OP has raised a serious point and he deserves an intelligent response.

Thanks Mamoon. You are the only one here who understood the exact issue. Let me try to make it clear to others too.

There is a famous Hadith of Prophet, which says:

وَإِنْ کَانَ مِنْ أَمَةٍ لَا يَمْلِکُهَا أَوْ مِنْ حُرَّةٍ عَاهَرَ بِهَا فَإِنَّهُ لَا يَلْحَقُ وَلَا يُورَثُ وَإِنْ کَانَ الَّذِي يُدْعَی لَهُ هُوَ ادَّعَاهُ فَهُوَ وَلَدُ زِنًا لِأَهْلِ أُمِّهِ مَنْ کَانُوا حُرَّةً أَوْ أَمَةً

Translation:
If he (an illegitimate child) was born to a slave woman whom his father did not own, or to a free woman with whom he committed adultery, then he cannot be named after his father, and he does not inherit from him, even if the one whom he claims as his father acknowledges him. So he is an illegitimate child who belongs to his mother's people, whoever they are, whether she is a free woman or a slave."

References:
(1) Sunnan Abu Dawud Graded as Sahih). Link.
(2) Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal (Graded as Sahih)Link.

For official English translation, please see this same tradition in Sunnan Ibn Majah (link).


In tradition in Sahih Bukhari, holy Prophet said (link):

الْوَلَدُ لِلْفِرَاشِ وَلِلْعَاهِرِ الْحَجَرُ

Translation:
The Prophet said: The (illegitimate) child belongs to the owner of the bed, and for the fornicator (biological father) there is only stone (i.e. nothing).


Islamic scholars explained this hadith as:

(1) Original biological father will never have any connection to the his illegitimate son/daughter. He could not give his name to the child, he could not do anything in upbringing of the child. If child is a daughter, then she will be Na-Mahram to her father and she has to observe Hijab from her father. The illegitimate child will not inherit from his/her father.

(2) If woman is non-married, then the child will get her name solely.

(3) But if woman is married to someone else, then child will get the name of her husband.
But if husband does not want to give that illegitimate child his name and his inheritance in presence of his legitimate children, then he will call for "La'an".

(4) If woman accepts adultery, then mother will be stoned.


A detailed form of this hadith is also present in Sahih Bukhari, which explains this issue in details:


Sahih Bukhari (link):

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) Utba bin Abi Waqqas entrusted (his son) to his brother Sad bin Abi Waqqas saying, "The son of the slave-girl of Zam'a is my (illegal) son, take him into your custody." So during the year of the Conquest (of Mecca) Sad took the boy and said, "This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me." 'Abu bin Zam's got up and said, "He is my brother and the son of the slave girl of my father and was born on my father's bed." Then both of them came to Allah's Apostle and Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me."
Then 'Abu bin Zam'a got up and said, "This is my brother and the son of the slave-girl of my father." Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu bin Zam'a! This boy is for you as the boy belongs to the bed (where he was born), and for the adulterer is the stone



I hope now people could understand the stories of the Muslim Sisters and Brothers above.

Ok but what’s the question.

Questions that arise in mind are these:

(1) Child is indeed innocent, even if he/she is illegitimate.

(2) But why child is getting the punishment of being deprived of the name of the father?

(3) If child gets the name of the mother, then whole society automatically knows that he/she is an illegitimate child.

(4) Child is also unable to ever get the love of the father. It is not allowed for the father to meet or see him/her. In case of daughter, she will be Na-Mahram for father and she has to do Hijab from her father.

(5) Child will also get no upbringing from the father or any other financial support. And also he/She inherits nothing from the father, but he/she will inherit only from mother.
It does not seem right that child is deprived of the inheritance of the father.

(6) If mother has also been killed by stoning due to adultery, then child looses both biological father and biological mother and their love and care.
Such child is bond to face a lot of hardships. But why? It was not his/her fault.


Please read the stories of these Muslim Brothers and Sisters. These illegitimate brothers and sisters are crying for love for their fathers, but fathers had to leave them alone with their mothers and simply vanish.

I feel a lot of pain for these illegitimate brothers and sisters.

 

[Slog]

Thanks Mamoon. You are the only one here who understood the exact issue. Let me try to make it clear to others too.

There is a famous Hadith of Prophet, which says:

وَإِنْ کَانَ مِنْ أَمَةٍ لَا يَمْلِکُهَا أَوْ مِنْ حُرَّةٍ عَاهَرَ بِهَا فَإِنَّهُ لَا يَلْحَقُ وَلَا يُورَثُ وَإِنْ کَانَ الَّذِي يُدْعَی لَهُ هُوَ ادَّعَاهُ فَهُوَ وَلَدُ زِنًا لِأَهْلِ أُمِّهِ مَنْ کَانُوا حُرَّةً أَوْ أَمَةً

Translation:
If he (an illegitimate child) was born to a slave woman whom his father did not own, or to a free woman with whom he committed adultery, then he cannot be named after his father, and he does not inherit from him, even if the one whom he claims as his father acknowledges him. So he is an illegitimate child who belongs to his mother's people, whoever they are, whether she is a free woman or a slave."

References:
(1) Sunnan Abu Dawud Graded as Sahih). Link.
(2) Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal (Graded as Sahih)Link.

For official English translation, please see this same tradition in Sunnan Ibn Majah (link).


In tradition in Sahih Bukhari, holy Prophet said (link):

الْوَلَدُ لِلْفِرَاشِ وَلِلْعَاهِرِ الْحَجَرُ

Translation:
The Prophet said: The (illegitimate) child belongs to the owner of the bed, and for the fornicator (biological father) there is only stone (i.e. nothing).


Islamic scholars explained this hadith as:

(1) Original biological father will never have any connection to the his illegitimate son/daughter. He could not give his name to the child, he could not do anything in upbringing of the child. If child is a daughter, then she will be Na-Mahram to her father and she has to observe Hijab from her father. The illegitimate child will not inherit from his/her father.

(2) If woman is non-married, then the child will get her name solely.

(3) But if woman is married to someone else, then child will get the name of her husband.
But if husband does not want to give that illegitimate child his name and his inheritance in presence of his legitimate children, then he will call for "La'an".

(4) If woman accepts adultery, then mother will be stoned.


A detailed form of this hadith is also present in Sahih Bukhari, which explains this issue in details:


Sahih Bukhari (link):

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) Utba bin Abi Waqqas entrusted (his son) to his brother Sad bin Abi Waqqas saying, "The son of the slave-girl of Zam'a is my (illegal) son, take him into your custody." So during the year of the Conquest (of Mecca) Sad took the boy and said, "This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me." 'Abu bin Zam's got up and said, "He is my brother and the son of the slave girl of my father and was born on my father's bed." Then both of them came to Allah's Apostle and Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me."
Then 'Abu bin Zam'a got up and said, "This is my brother and the son of the slave-girl of my father." Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu bin Zam'a! This boy is for you as the boy belongs to the bed (where he was born), and for the adulterer is the stone



I hope now people could understand the stories of the Muslim Sisters and Brothers above.




Questions that arise in mind are these:

(1) Child is indeed innocent, even if he/she is illegitimate.

(2) But why child is getting the punishment of being deprived of the name of the father?

(3) If child gets the name of the mother, then whole society automatically knows that he/she is an illegitimate child.

(4) Child is also unable to ever get the love of the father. It is not allowed for the father to meet or see him/her. In case of daughter, she will be Na-Mahram for father and she has to do Hijab from her father.

(5) Child will also get no upbringing from the father or any other financial support. And also he/She inherits nothing from the father, but he/she will inherit only from mother.
It does not seem right that child is deprived of the inheritance of the father.

(6) If mother has also been killed by stoning due to adultery, then child looses both biological father and biological mother and their love and care.
Such child is bond to face a lot of hardships. But why? It was not his/her fault.


Please read the stories of these Muslim Brothers and Sisters. These illegitimate brothers and sisters are crying for love for their fathers, but fathers had to leave them alone with their mothers and simply vanish.

I feel a lot of pain for these illegitimate brothers and sisters.

Skimmed through the text.

Still do not get the point.

If you’re trying to understand this issue or get some sort of justification for the ruling then as I said going to imams or people who know about Islamic jurisprudence is the way to go. This is a cricket forum.

Not entirely sure what you’re trying to achieve or get out of in this case

 

[Lahorijat]

The male in question could follow the Islamic law as written centuries ago or make a different choice if that is more consistent with his values and beliefs. Different viewpoints- Is man subordinate to religion or religion subordinate to personal values and beliefs?

 

[Salma_T]

Maybe start with not sleeping around and getting women pregnant! If you follow the tenants of Islam you shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage and the situation will not occur it's not very likely a man can impregnate a woman due to be raped (as it happens with many women who fall pregnant due to rape)

Many men get women pregnant and guess what they make the situation legitimate by marrying them and raise the child. I personally know atleast 3 guys who have married their wives when they have been. 3/4 months pregnant

 

[Slog]

Maybe start with not sleeping around and getting women pregnant! If you follow the tenants of Islam you shouldn't be having sex outside of marriage and the situation will not occur it's not very likely a man can impregnate a woman due to be raped (as it happens with many women who fall pregnant due to rape)

Many men get women pregnant and guess what they make the situation legitimate by marrying them and raise the child. I personally know atleast 3 guys who have married their wives when they have been. 3/4 months pregnant

You’re talking about ideal situation

In this case it’s not ideal.

What do you do if you have done the act and the kid is in this world

 

[Salma_T]

Be responsible for what you did.....Islam didn't stop you sleeping around and now using Islam as a reason to not support the child is lame but reeks of the double standards many Muslim men have!

 

[Vega]

I wonder what is the wisdom of Allah behind all this.

There are so many problems occurring for the daughters and sons in name of them being illegitimate. For example, look at this fatwa:

Fatwa No : 325114 (link).
Telling an illegitimate daughter truth about her birth

Question:
I am a mother who has a child out of wedlock who vaguely remembers her "biological father" when he was around. My question is: do I have to tell my daughter that she was born out of wedlock? What if she asks what happened to him, and if so, when and how does one go about explaining it?

Answer:
You are not Islamically obliged to tell your daughter that she was born out of wedlock (even if she gets your name and not of her father), and there is no benefit for her in doing so. Rather, it is totally against her interest.

If she happened to ask about her father, you are allowed to resort to tawriyah (saying something which has more than one meaning and intending a meaning different from what the listener is likely to understand). Verily, tawriyah is a legitimate way to avoid lying. You can tell her, for instance, that her father has passed away with the intention of meaning that a “legitimate” father does not exist.


I wonder how could this protect the daughter while:

(1) By carrying the name of her mother (and not her father), she and whole society already know that she is an illegitimate child.

(2) Tawriyah ... It seems to me another name of Shia Taqqiyyah.
But I am afraid that telling a lie is again not going to solve the problems as she is carrying the name of her mother, while passing away of legitimate father does not stop one to carry his name.

 

[Vega]

And this is one of the most disturbing Hadith for me.

Sunnan Abu Dawud (link):
عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، ‏‏‏‏‏‏قَالَ:‏‏‏‏ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ:‏‏‏‏ "وَلَدُ الزِّنَا شَرُّ الثَّلَاثَةِ"، ‏‏‏‏‏‏وقَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ:‏‏‏‏ لَأَنْ أُمَتِّعَ بِسَوْطٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ مِنْ أَنْ أَعْتِقَ وَلَدَ زِنْيَةٍ.
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The child of fornication is worst of the three (among father, mother & child). Abu Hurayrah said that he prefers to give dirt as alms in path of Allah then freeing such illegitimate slave (due to his/her being even bigger evil and sinner than his/her fornicating parents).

Imam Albani graded this Hadith as "Sahih" (link).
Imam Wadai declared this Hadith as "Sahih" according to the standards of Imam Muslim (link).

What is the wisdom here in making this innocent child so much prone to becoming evil later?

At maximum I hear the Ulama telling that chance of this child becoming evil later is due to the fact that he/she lacks the education and upbringing by the father.

I don't know how to digest this argument.

There also arises the counter argument here that it is Sharia itself which in the first place deprived this innocent child the education and upbringing of the father.

What is the wisdom for all this?

 

[Slog]

And this is one of the most disturbing Hadith for me.

Sunnan Abu Dawud (link):
عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، ‏‏‏‏‏‏قَالَ:‏‏‏‏ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ:‏‏‏‏ "وَلَدُ الزِّنَا شَرُّ الثَّلَاثَةِ"، ‏‏‏‏‏‏وقَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ:‏‏‏‏ لَأَنْ أُمَتِّعَ بِسَوْطٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ أَحَبُّ إِلَيَّ مِنْ أَنْ أَعْتِقَ وَلَدَ زِنْيَةٍ.
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The child of fornication is worst of the three (among father, mother & child). Abu Hurayrah said that he prefers to give dirt as alms in path of Allah then freeing such illegitimate slave (due to his/her being even bigger evil and sinner than his/her fornicating parents).

Imam Albani graded this Hadith as "Sahih" (link).
Imam Wadai declared this Hadith as "Sahih" according to the standards of Imam Muslim (link).

What is the wisdom here in making this innocent child so much prone to becoming evil later?

At maximum I hear the Ulama telling that chance of this child becoming evil later is due to the fact that he/she lacks the education and upbringing by the father.

I don't know how to digest this argument.

There also arises the counter argument here that it is Sharia itself which in the first place deprived this innocent child the education and upbringing of the father.

What is the wisdom for all this?

All fair questions.

You should either seek out your local ulema or atleast post these on the many Islamic religious forums going around.

Asking these questions from a bunch of cricket fans who do not know the matter in hand let alone be able to explain it is nott the smartest thing in the world on your part so would advise you against such naive decisions .

 

[Sadozai]

Be responsible for what you did.....Islam didn't stop you sleeping around and now using Islam as a reason to not support the child is lame but reeks of the double standards many Muslim men have!

Agreed.

 

[The_Odd_One]

We must understand that those were the times when women were considered a commodity. Those societies were dominated by men, so all the laws were made to favor men. Majority of them wanted nothing to do with illegitimate children. It was not only a financial burden but a black spot on their character and even punishable in Islam. By preventing fathers from giving their name to children, their privacy was protected.

 

[uberkoen]

We must understand that those were the times when women were considered a commodity. Those societies were dominated by men, so all the laws were made to favor men. Majority of them wanted nothing to do with illegitimate children. It was not only a financial burden but a black spot on their character and even punishable in Islam. By preventing fathers from giving their name to children, their privacy was protected.

So you’re saying Islamic laws and principles are time bound and do not apply to today’s society?

 

[uberkoen]

Agreed.

Agreed to what? If someone made a mistake as now wants to repent and set things right he’s no longer allowed to follow principles and teachings of the religion?

 

[Vega]

By preventing fathers from giving their name to children, their privacy was protected.

But what about the privacy of the mothers?
Mothers had to give them their names.
If fathers are not made to support their children in name of their being illegitimate, then Mothers had to earn money outside of their homes in order to feed these children.


And what about the privacy of the children itself. Once they get the name of the mothers, then whole society knows that they are illegitimate and thus ridiculed whole of their life.

Let us ask the question of "divine Justice" too now along with the "divine wisdom".

We must understand that those were the times when women were considered a commodity. Those societies were dominated by men, so all the laws were made to favor men.

My logic guides me to only this question, why divine God didn't want to change the status of the women from being commodity?

Majority of them wanted nothing to do with illegitimate children. It was not only a financial burden but a black spot on their character and even punishable in Islam.

My logic guides me to these questions:

1. Even if majority don't want to do any thing with their illegitimate children, then Allah had to guide them to do the opposite and take care of those kids as they were responsible for their birth.

2. Now the black spot shifted only to the mothers and the innocent Children themselves and these children have to pay the price whole of their life.

3. If punishment of adultery is killing through stone, and the children become orphans and no one is there to love them and take care of them, then my logic guided me that Divine Being had to change this law of stoning to death and come up with milder punishment, so that both parents could stay alive to give love to the innocent child and take care of him.

And even if the killing through stoning punishment is absolutely necessary, then it should be postponed till the children are adults enough to take care of them.


Lastly, it does not seem to me the issue of being old man dominated society. While the Hadith which says the illegitimate child is even bigger evil and sinner than his parents, this is showing something else to me. I am totally unable to understand the divine wisdom here.

 

[Vega]

All the 4 Fiqh Imams (i.e. Malik, Abu Hanifa, Shafi'i and Ahmed bin Hanbal) say that it is not allowed for an illegitimate child to lead a congregational prayer ( Link).

The Hanafi jurist, Imam Ibn Abidin gave the following wisdom for this ruling (link):

“This is due to the fact that he [i.e. the illegitimate] does not [normally] have a father to raise him, train him and teach him, hence ignorance (jahl) overcomes him [and thus, he is not able to properly fulfil the conditions of prayer].” (Radd al-Muhtar ala ‘l-Durr al-Mukhtar, 1/562)

One wonders how this argument is going to work while it is Sharia itself which in the first place depriving this child from the education and upbringing of the father.

Imam Ahmed allows it conditionally if it is established that illegitimate man is really sound in religion to lead the congregational prayers (while this condition does not apply for legitimate children and he has nothing to prove to lead the prayers) .

 

[Mamoon]

Agreed to what? If someone made a mistake as now wants to repent and set things right he’s no longer allowed to follow principles and teachings of the religion?

How credible is convenient repentance anyway? If a person represents after sleeping around and committing vices to his heart’s content, it is difficult to respect his repentance. It seems like a case of trying to have the best of both worlds.

If you say that I am not the one to judge whether someone is genuine or not, well if that is the case then such people who repent when it is convenient have special blessings from the Almighty because He has allowed them to enjoy worldly pleasures and also protect their afterlife.

 

[miandadrules]

Thanks Mamoon. You are the only one here who understood the exact issue. Let me try to make it clear to others too.

There is a famous Hadith of Prophet, which says:

وَإِنْ کَانَ مِنْ أَمَةٍ لَا يَمْلِکُهَا أَوْ مِنْ حُرَّةٍ عَاهَرَ بِهَا فَإِنَّهُ لَا يَلْحَقُ وَلَا يُورَثُ وَإِنْ کَانَ الَّذِي يُدْعَی لَهُ هُوَ ادَّعَاهُ فَهُوَ وَلَدُ زِنًا لِأَهْلِ أُمِّهِ مَنْ کَانُوا حُرَّةً أَوْ أَمَةً

Translation:
If he (an illegitimate child) was born to a slave woman whom his father did not own, or to a free woman with whom he committed adultery, then he cannot be named after his father, and he does not inherit from him, even if the one whom he claims as his father acknowledges him. So he is an illegitimate child who belongs to his mother's people, whoever they are, whether she is a free woman or a slave."

References:
(1) Sunnan Abu Dawud Graded as Sahih). Link.
(2) Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal (Graded as Sahih)Link.

For official English translation, please see this same tradition in Sunnan Ibn Majah (link).


In tradition in Sahih Bukhari, holy Prophet said (link):

الْوَلَدُ لِلْفِرَاشِ وَلِلْعَاهِرِ الْحَجَرُ

Translation:
The Prophet said: The (illegitimate) child belongs to the owner of the bed, and for the fornicator (biological father) there is only stone (i.e. nothing).


Islamic scholars explained this hadith as:

(1) Original biological father will never have any connection to the his illegitimate son/daughter. He could not give his name to the child, he could not do anything in upbringing of the child. If child is a daughter, then she will be Na-Mahram to her father and she has to observe Hijab from her father. The illegitimate child will not inherit from his/her father.

(2) If woman is non-married, then the child will get her name solely.

(3) But if woman is married to someone else, then child will get the name of her husband.
But if husband does not want to give that illegitimate child his name and his inheritance in presence of his legitimate children, then he will call for "La'an".

(4) If woman accepts adultery, then mother will be stoned.


A detailed form of this hadith is also present in Sahih Bukhari, which explains this issue in details:


Sahih Bukhari (link):

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) Utba bin Abi Waqqas entrusted (his son) to his brother Sad bin Abi Waqqas saying, "The son of the slave-girl of Zam'a is my (illegal) son, take him into your custody." So during the year of the Conquest (of Mecca) Sad took the boy and said, "This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me." 'Abu bin Zam's got up and said, "He is my brother and the son of the slave girl of my father and was born on my father's bed." Then both of them came to Allah's Apostle and Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me."
Then 'Abu bin Zam'a got up and said, "This is my brother and the son of the slave-girl of my father." Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu bin Zam'a! This boy is for you as the boy belongs to the bed (where he was born), and for the adulterer is the stone



I hope now people could understand the stories of the Muslim Sisters and Brothers above.




Questions that arise in mind are these:

(1) Child is indeed innocent, even if he/she is illegitimate.

(2) But why child is getting the punishment of being deprived of the name of the father?

(3) If child gets the name of the mother, then whole society automatically knows that he/she is an illegitimate child.

(4) Child is also unable to ever get the love of the father. It is not allowed for the father to meet or see him/her. In case of daughter, she will be Na-Mahram for father and she has to do Hijab from her father.

(5) Child will also get no upbringing from the father or any other financial support. And also he/She inherits nothing from the father, but he/she will inherit only from mother.
It does not seem right that child is deprived of the inheritance of the father.

(6) If mother has also been killed by stoning due to adultery, then child looses both biological father and biological mother and their love and care.
Such child is bond to face a lot of hardships. But why? It was not his/her fault.


Please read the stories of these Muslim Brothers and Sisters. These illegitimate brothers and sisters are crying for love for their fathers, but fathers had to leave them alone with their mothers and simply vanish.

I feel a lot of pain for these illegitimate brothers and sisters.

I would have stopped looking for guidance as soon the mention of slave woman is bought up.

 

[humzy]

Skimmed through the text.

Still do not get the point.

If you’re trying to understand this issue or get some sort of justification for the ruling then as I said going to imams or people who know about Islamic jurisprudence is the way to go. This is a cricket forum.

Not entirely sure what you’re trying to achieve or get out of in this case

Thanks for the useless response, if this is a cricket forum we may as well get rid of the Time Pass section.

The OP could be asking here instead of an imam for privacy or trust issues.

 

[Itachi]

Thanks for the useless response, if this is a cricket forum we may as well get rid of the Time Pass section.

The OP could be asking here instead of an imam for privacy or trust issues.

In the past, threads like these didn't resolve any questions. Not one question could be answered in accordance with Islamic studies and hence it creates further confusion. Slog is right. It's better to ask a scholar or appropriate forum instead here.

One can state some herbal medicine for headache here (minor issues) but one wouldn't come here for an illness and even a doctor here wouldn't give diagnosis in time pass forum.

Horses for courses. These kind of sensitive questions should be ask to a specialist and NOT on some time pass section of a cricket forum.

 

[uberkoen]

How credible is convenient repentance anyway? If a person represents after sleeping around and committing vices to his heart’s content, it is difficult to respect his repentance. It seems like a case of trying to have the best of both worlds.

If you say that I am not the one to judge whether someone is genuine or not, well if that is the case then such people who repent when it is convenient have special blessings from the Almighty because He has allowed them to enjoy worldly pleasures and also protect their afterlife.

Isn't this exactly the case? You could sin all you want your entire life and then when you're old go for Hajj and you're wiped clean of all your sins.

 

[The_Odd_One]

But what about the privacy of the mothers?
Mothers had to give them their names.
If fathers are not made to support their children in name of their being illegitimate, then Mothers had to earn money outside of their homes in order to feed these children.


And what about the privacy of the children itself. Once they get the name of the mothers, then whole society knows that they are illegitimate and thus ridiculed whole of their life.

Let us ask the question of "divine Justice" too now along with the "divine wisdom".





My logic guides me to only this question, why divine God didn't want to change the status of the women from being commodity?





My logic guides me to these questions:

1. Even if majority don't want to do any thing with their illegitimate children, then Allah had to guide them to do the opposite and take care of those kids as they were responsible for their birth.

2. Now the black spot shifted only to the mothers and the innocent Children themselves and these children have to pay the price whole of their life.

3. If punishment of adultery is killing through stone, and the children become orphans and no one is there to love them and take care of them, then my logic guided me that Divine Being had to change this law of stoning to death and come up with milder punishment, so that both parents could stay alive to give love to the innocent child and take care of him.

And even if the killing through stoning punishment is absolutely necessary, then it should be postponed till the children are adults enough to take care of them.


Lastly, it does not seem to me the issue of being old man dominated society. While the Hadith which says the illegitimate child is even bigger evil and sinner than his parents, this is showing something else to me. I am totally unable to understand the divine wisdom here.

All of your points are valid and I completely agree with them. The lesson I have learned is that you can't find morality in religions. Abrahamic religions, specifically, have a very angry and vengeful God who has very limited tolerance and gets offended very easily.

 

[Mamoon]

Isn't this exactly the case? You could sin all you want your entire life and then when you're old go for Hajj and you're wiped clean of all your sins.

It is not that simple. The key is to have your Hajj accepted.

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Whoever performs Hajj (pilgrimage) sincerely and does not have sexual relations (with his wife), nor commits sin, nor disputes unjustly (during Hajj), then he returns from Hajj as pure and free from sins as on the day on which his mother gave birth to him."

Meeting all of these conditions are virtually impossible. Your Hajj has to be financed by 100% halal money and you have to ensure that you do not commit any sin while performing Hajj which is not possible. Most of the pilgrims are intolerant because of the stress of performing Hajj and the fatigue involved.

You would always see people fighting with each other and literally shoving others to get the chance to kiss the stone or to touch the Kaabah. It is ridiculous.

Considering the criteria set by the Prophet PBUH, 99.9% of the people do not return from Hajj with a clean slate.

 

[MenInG]

It is not that simple. The key is to have your Hajj accepted.

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Whoever performs Hajj (pilgrimage) sincerely and does not have sexual relations (with his wife), nor commits sin, nor disputes unjustly (during Hajj), then he returns from Hajj as pure and free from sins as on the day on which his mother gave birth to him."

Meeting all of these conditions are virtually impossible. Your Hajj has to be financed by 100% halal money and you have to ensure that you do not commit any sin while performing Hajj which is not possible. Most of the pilgrims are intolerant because of the stress of performing Hajj and the fatigue involved.

You would always see people fighting with each other and literally shoving others to get the chance to kiss the stone or to touch the Kaabah. It is ridiculous.

Considering the criteria set by the Prophet PBUH, 99.9% of the people do not return from Hajj with a clean slate.

No one has any idea of which Hajj is accepted and which is not.

You could have been kind to a kitten on way to Hajj which could please your Creator. So basically you do the manasik of Hajj and leave it to the Almighty to judge you. Your Niyat (intention) has to be to perform Hajj to please him, then the rest is His call.

 

[Slog]

Thanks for the useless response, if this is a cricket forum we may as well get rid of the Time Pass section.

The OP could be asking here instead of an imam for privacy or trust issues.

The OP isn’t asking for discussion.

He is asking for justification which can only
Be given by an aalim.

It’s similar to how If someone is having an illness he would go to a doctor rather than post here for a diagnosis

 

[CricketCartoons]

No one has any idea of which Hajj is accepted and which is not.

You could have been kind to a kitten on way to Hajj which could please your Creator. So basically you do the manasik of Hajj and leave it to the Almighty to judge you. Your Niyat (intention) has to be to perform Hajj to please him, then the rest is His call.

Like the story of the cobbler from Damascus, who didn't go for Hajj and gave his money to poor, but his Hajj was accepted.

 

[MenInG]

Like the story of the cobbler from Damascus, who didn't go for Hajj and gave his money to poor, but his Hajj was accepted.

He moves in mysterious ways!

 

[Mamoon]

No one has any idea of which Hajj is accepted and which is not.

You could have been kind to a kitten on way to Hajj which could please your Creator. So basically you do the manasik of Hajj and leave it to the Almighty to judge you. Your Niyat (intention) has to be to perform Hajj to please him, then the rest is His call.

Correct, which is why it is not right to say that Hajj whitewashes your past sins. There are no guarantees that your Hajj will be accepted in the first place.

A true believer should live every day in accordance with the teachings of Islam instead of treating Hajj like a trip the dry-cleaners.

 

[Vega]

The OP isn’t asking for discussion.

He is asking for justification which can only
Be given by an aalim.

It’s similar to how If someone is having an illness he would go to a doctor rather than post here for a diagnosis

You are right about asking the question to the Aalims. But what if:

* Aalims are also unable to give the answer?
* Or if few Aalims have tried to give an answer, but this answer didn't satisfy you?

For example, I got an explanation of only this ruling that illegitimate children could not lead the congregational prayers while they lack in their education and upbringing while father was not there to help them become good human being.
It is proving to be difficult for me to become satisfied with this justification, while it is the Sharia ruling itself which stopped the father to take care of his child and to educate him.

For the rest of the rulings, I don't remember to get any reasoning which could justify them.

Aalims are also humans. They know these Ahadith and Rulings, but they don't know the "wisdom" behind these rulings. This wisdom or reasoning could only come through human thinking. Actually here we have seen more reason, as in case of "man dominated society". It may be that this reason is not good enough, but still it was an effort of pondering upon these rulings.

In short, the orders of pondering upon is not limited to Aalims only, but it is the duty of every one to ponder upon.

 

[Sadozai]

Agreed to what? If someone made a mistake as now wants to repent and set things right he’s no longer allowed to follow principles and teachings of the religion?

I said I am agreed to the comments of [MENTION=52972]Salma_T[/MENTION]. Why in the name of so called "principles & teachings of religion" an innocent newborn should be punished for the mistake which he/she hasn't committed?

 

[Tubs]

The easy answer is that Islam, like any other ancient/medieval religion, is not a good source of guidance for all time.

 

[CricketCartoons]

He moves in mysterious ways!

That story was in our school's hindi text book. Would create a controversy now if it was still taught.

 

[andy0204]

That story was in our school's hindi text book. Would create a controversy now if it was still taught.

What was chapters name?

 

[kk1992]

Correct, which is why it is not right to say that Hajj whitewashes your past sins. There are no guarantees that your Hajj will be accepted in the first place.

A true believer should live every day in accordance with the teachings of Islam instead of treating Hajj like a trip the dry-cleaners.

I understand you have to be different than most Pakistani and Muslims, it gives you sense of achievement and superiority over your fellow Muslims and Pakistanis but please re-read your comment and try to understand what you have written.

 

[Halaribo]

Vega, had you done an ounce of earnest research, you would know that the evidence you have presented is already challenged and explained by various sources online. I'm not even talking about a thorough and broken down ruling of the matter, I'm talking about a 5 minute search across google where Islamic scholars CLEARLY explain and state that the illegitimate child is not to blame, and the various solutions of how to deal with children born out of wedlock.

I have difficulty accepting your sincerity when you don't even acknowledge that scholars have differing views on this issue and that surely their opinion must be based on Islamic sources. I also have difficulty accepting your sincerity when you think posting up a few hadith is going to convince us that you feel for our illegitimate brothers and sisters when you don't even give them the regard that Islam actually has flexibility on this issue, which you would have known had your zeal not come to the fore.

It fascinates me that those looking to condemn the faith tend to be more zealous and extreme in their views than the average person going about their day.

If you genuinely feel pain from this topic, then get down to your local masjid or if you're in the UK, why don't you attend Ilmfest on 15th February and ask one of the many scholars who will be there.

 

[Mamoon]

I understand you have to be different than most Pakistani and Muslims, it gives you sense of achievement and superiority over your fellow Muslims and Pakistanis but please re-read your comment and try to understand what you have written.

Your comment is too intelligent for me to decipher. Please use your unrivaled wits and make me understand what I have written.

 

[MenInG]

Correct, which is why it is not right to say that Hajj whitewashes your past sins. There are no guarantees that your Hajj will be accepted in the first place.

A true believer should live every day in accordance with the teachings of Islam instead of treating Hajj like a trip the dry-cleaners.

Absolutely right. Agreed.

 

[Vega]

Vega, had you done an ounce of earnest research, you would know that the evidence you have presented is already challenged and explained by various sources online. I'm not even talking about a thorough and broken down ruling of the matter, I'm talking about a 5 minute search across google where Islamic scholars CLEARLY explain and state that the illegitimate child is not to blame, and the various solutions of how to deal with children born out of wedlock.

As far as my research is concerned, then it is like this:

(1) There exist NO other Hadith, which contradicts these Sahih Tradition of Bukhari and other Sahah Satta.


(2) All the early Salaf Ulama (including the 4 Imams) agree upon these rulings.


(3) Then came Ibn Taymiyyah (who is not Salaf, but from Khalaf generations and came about 600 years later).

He was the first one who differed from these rulings.

Nevertheless, he was unable to present any Hadith or any other proof for his different opinion. Actually, all other Scholars of his time refuted him while the Ahadith on this matter were very clear that father was neither allowed to give his name to the illegitimate child, nor could he support his child, nor inherit him, nor love him, nor educate him.


After Ibn Taymiyyah, there were few more who followed him, but again they had no Hadith in support of their claims.


Please, you could do the google, and you will find the same results.

Remember, Sharia is made only by Allah. Not even Prophet is allowed to add anything in Sharia at his own. Hadiths of Prophet are Hujjah (binding) while they are directly from Allah too.

 

[moghul]

Thanks Mamoon. You are the only one here who understood the exact issue. Let me try to make it clear to others too.

There is a famous Hadith of Prophet, which says:

وَإِنْ کَانَ مِنْ أَمَةٍ لَا يَمْلِکُهَا أَوْ مِنْ حُرَّةٍ عَاهَرَ بِهَا فَإِنَّهُ لَا يَلْحَقُ وَلَا يُورَثُ وَإِنْ کَانَ الَّذِي يُدْعَی لَهُ هُوَ ادَّعَاهُ فَهُوَ وَلَدُ زِنًا لِأَهْلِ أُمِّهِ مَنْ کَانُوا حُرَّةً أَوْ أَمَةً

Translation:
If he (an illegitimate child) was born to a slave woman whom his father did not own, or to a free woman with whom he committed adultery, then he cannot be named after his father, and he does not inherit from him, even if the one whom he claims as his father acknowledges him. So he is an illegitimate child who belongs to his mother's people, whoever they are, whether she is a free woman or a slave."

References:
(1) Sunnan Abu Dawud Graded as Sahih). Link.
(2) Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal (Graded as Sahih)Link.

For official English translation, please see this same tradition in Sunnan Ibn Majah (link).


In tradition in Sahih Bukhari, holy Prophet said (link):

الْوَلَدُ لِلْفِرَاشِ وَلِلْعَاهِرِ الْحَجَرُ

Translation:
The Prophet said: The (illegitimate) child belongs to the owner of the bed, and for the fornicator (biological father) there is only stone (i.e. nothing).


Islamic scholars explained this hadith as:

(1) Original biological father will never have any connection to the his illegitimate son/daughter. He could not give his name to the child, he could not do anything in upbringing of the child. If child is a daughter, then she will be Na-Mahram to her father and she has to observe Hijab from her father. The illegitimate child will not inherit from his/her father.

(2) If woman is non-married, then the child will get her name solely.

(3) But if woman is married to someone else, then child will get the name of her husband.
But if husband does not want to give that illegitimate child his name and his inheritance in presence of his legitimate children, then he will call for "La'an".

(4) If woman accepts adultery, then mother will be stoned.


A detailed form of this hadith is also present in Sahih Bukhari, which explains this issue in details:


Sahih Bukhari (link):

Narrated 'Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) Utba bin Abi Waqqas entrusted (his son) to his brother Sad bin Abi Waqqas saying, "The son of the slave-girl of Zam'a is my (illegal) son, take him into your custody." So during the year of the Conquest (of Mecca) Sad took the boy and said, "This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me." 'Abu bin Zam's got up and said, "He is my brother and the son of the slave girl of my father and was born on my father's bed." Then both of them came to Allah's Apostle and Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother's son whom my brother entrusted to me."
Then 'Abu bin Zam'a got up and said, "This is my brother and the son of the slave-girl of my father." Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu bin Zam'a! This boy is for you as the boy belongs to the bed (where he was born), and for the adulterer is the stone



I hope now people could understand the stories of the Muslim Sisters and Brothers above.




Questions that arise in mind are these:

(1) Child is indeed innocent, even if he/she is illegitimate.

(2) But why child is getting the punishment of being deprived of the name of the father?

(3) If child gets the name of the mother, then whole society automatically knows that he/she is an illegitimate child.

(4) Child is also unable to ever get the love of the father. It is not allowed for the father to meet or see him/her. In case of daughter, she will be Na-Mahram for father and she has to do Hijab from her father.

(5) Child will also get no upbringing from the father or any other financial support. And also he/She inherits nothing from the father, but he/she will inherit only from mother.
It does not seem right that child is deprived of the inheritance of the father.

(6) If mother has also been killed by stoning due to adultery, then child looses both biological father and biological mother and their love and care.
Such child is bond to face a lot of hardships. But why? It was not his/her fault.


Please read the stories of these Muslim Brothers and Sisters. These illegitimate brothers and sisters are crying for love for their fathers, but fathers had to leave them alone with their mothers and simply vanish.

I feel a lot of pain for these illegitimate brothers and sisters.

Thankfully Quraan script is intact in its original form but I can;t say the same about many Hadiths. I won;t believe if a Hadith won;t make any sense to me. How can a father gets away with all the responsibilities after fathering a child out of wedlock and why the woman and the child have to face all the consequences. Many Hadiths have been changed by the "scholars: in favor of men.

 

[cric_man]

This is a very sensitive subject and should be addressed to a learned authority in Islamic Jurisprudence and Fiqh instead of asking for insight on a sports forum.

I will be honest, in my 42 years, I have never even thought about this subject. Most probably because we consider having sexual relations outside of marriage as prohibited let alone bearing a child. But it does happen....
[MENTION=149796]Vega[/MENTION], I would like to ask a few blunt questions and please accept my apologies in advance if they offend you.

Why are you inquiring about this?
Is it a personal issue for you? Or are you a non-muslim just looking to re-affirm your views on Islam and its medieval structure? If it is the former and you are in the US, I can help you get in touch with scholars that specialize in Islamic Jurisprudence & Fiqh.

 

[Vega]

This is a very sensitive subject and should be addressed to a learned authority in Islamic Jurisprudence and Fiqh instead of asking for insight on a sports forum.

I will be honest, in my 42 years, I have never even thought about this subject. Most probably because we consider having sexual relations outside of marriage as prohibited let alone bearing a child. But it does happen....
[MENTION=149796]Vega[/MENTION], I would like to ask a few blunt questions and please accept my apologies in advance if they offend you.

Why are you inquiring about this?
Is it a personal issue for you? Or are you a non-muslim just looking to re-affirm your views on Islam and its medieval structure? If it is the former and you are in the US, I can help you get in touch with scholars that specialize in Islamic Jurisprudence & Fiqh.

Should we take it only as an "individual" issue and limit it to a 'personal' problem?

Or is it a community issue where a lot of people are disturbed, irrespective of them being involved directly or indirectly in it, irrespective of them being Muslims or those who are only interested in Islam.

It it is a community issue, and if Islam is really "universal", then why one needs to visit the Ulama on personal level?

Internet is there.

And books were there before Internet.

Whole community and others have interest in it.

Why don't then Ulamas answer these questions openly in the books, in the speeches, on the internet?

Therefore, if you want to help, then help whole mankind, while there are many who need it.


PS:

By the way, others already made such offers like you, and I have already visited Ulama with them. And the result is this that I am here and still asking this question.

 

[kk1992]

Your comment is too intelligent for me to decipher. Please use your unrivaled wits and make me understand what I have written.

It is okay, your habit of making general statement toward one particular group would kind of make it difficult for you to understand. But that is okay.

 

[cric_man]

Should we take it only as an "individual" issue and limit it to a 'personal' problem?

Or is it a community issue where a lot of people are disturbed, irrespective of them being involved directly or indirectly in it, irrespective of them being Muslims or those who are only interested in Islam.

It it is a community issue, and if Islam is really "universal", then why one needs to visit the Ulama on personal level?

Internet is there.

And books were there before Internet.

Whole community and others have interest in it.

Why don't then Ulamas answer these questions openly in the books, in the speeches, on the internet?

Therefore, if you want to help, then help whole mankind, while there are many who need it.


PS:

By the way, others already made such offers like you, and I have already visited Ulama with them. And the result is this that I am here and still asking this question.

May you find the answer you are looking for.

 

[Vega]

Even mother was raped, still her child will be considered as illegitimate:

One person took me to a person with lot of Islamic knowledge, in order to get the answers. But there we got another question when we came to know even if mother had been raped, still her child would be considered as illegitimate.

What is the fault of mother who was raped, and then she has to support the child alone, while the rapist get the clean chit from Sharia of not supporting the child?

What is the Divine Wisdom behind making mother and child suffer for the crime of the someone else?

 

[barah_admi]

First of all, for non married adulterers, male or female, the punishment is stoning to death. Am I correct?

If so, is the man meant to come back to life and look after the child?

If this occurred in a non Muslim state than the father is not going to be punished, in any way shape or form, so of course he can look after the child. There is no contradiction here.

 

[Vega]

First of all, for non married adulterers, male or female, the punishment is stoning to death. Am I correct?

If so, is the man meant to come back to life and look after the child?

If this occurred in a non Muslim state than the father is not going to be punished, in any way shape or form, so of course he can look after the child. There is no contradiction here.

No, fathers are not stoned, while they need 4 eye witnesses to stone him.

Therefore, fathers are present there, and also willing to take care of their children, but Islamic Sharia is a wall which they could not break. Please read the stories of such Muslim fathers in the original post.

 

[Bigboii]

Stop bieng bums and pay child support stop looking at Sharia when you have to pay child support they should wear big boy pants and take responsibility for thier actions instead of saying oh my mom is saying don't pay child support or it's not in Sharia so why should I pay child support well where was Sharia when you were having a night out with the girl know when you are dealing with the consequences of your actions you are suddenly a Muslim and remembering Sharia all of a sudden please shut up, be a man and take care of your child who needs a father figure both emotionally and financialy.

 

[sweep_shot]

Even mother was raped, still her child will be considered as illegitimate:

One person took me to a person with lot of Islamic knowledge, in order to get the answers. But there we got another question when we came to know even if mother had been raped, still her child would be considered as illegitimate.

What is the fault of mother who was raped, and then she has to support the child alone, while the rapist get the clean chit from Sharia of not supporting the child?

What is the Divine Wisdom behind making mother and child suffer for the crime of the someone else?

I think your intention of making this thread is just to badmouth Islam. Nothing else.

This is a complex issue. Why don't you go to Imam or something? Why are you whining in a cricket forum? I doubt you will find any scholar here.