Why is Jacques Kallis underrated?

[CricketTruth]

Kallis has scored against good bowling attacks but how did he fared vs ATG bowling attack as he has faced many of them? Can you name some of his standout knocks against high quality bowling attack?

I don't need stats to show that Tendulkar did well Vs Warne, Steyn and Ambrose while Lara did well vs Murali, McGrath and Warne. KP did well vs Steyn, McGrath and Warne. As I have said when you compare him to his contemporaries they excel in lot more parameters than Kallis do who excels only in one parameter- i.e. consistency. Hence he is underrated.

First of all I wouldn't say Lara did well against McGrath. Very occasionally he did well but overall McGrath clearly had the upper hand in this.

With Kallis, it has already been mentioned here but that English fast bowling attack of Hoggard, Harrison, Jones and Flintoff in the 2004-5 period were as tough as they came. None of them were individually close to all time greatness but as a combination in that period they caused problems for most batting line ups including in that famous 2005 Ashes series.

Kallis made 625 runs in that series at 69 with 3 hundreds. That great Australian side a year later (admittedly playing away from home) only had one batsman averaging just over 40 (Langer).

Kallis's first test century was an outstanding knock. Against an attack including McGrath and Warne his 101 saved the test. Without him South Africa would have definitely lost and the pressure was on him as a young player who hadn't done that well at that point.

 

[Ab Fan]

First of all I wouldn't say Lara did well against McGrath. Very occasionally he did well but overall McGrath clearly had the upper hand in this.

With Kallis, it has already been mentioned here but that English fast bowling attack of Hoggard, Harrison, Jones and Flintoff in the 2004-5 period were as tough as they came. None of them were individually close to all time greatness but as a combination in that period they caused problems for most batting line ups including in that famous 2005 Ashes series.

Kallis made 625 runs in that series at 69 with 3 hundreds. That great Australian side a year later (admittedly playing away from home) only had one batsman averaging just over 40 (Langer).

Kallis's first test century was an outstanding knock. Against an attack including McGrath and Warne his 101 saved the test. Without him South Africa would have definitely lost and the pressure was on him as a young player who hadn't done that well at that point.

Lara's 153 against McGrath, Warne and Gillispee is regarded as one of the greatest knock of all time and helped WI drew a series against that ATG Australian side.

Add to that,

182 at Adelaide 2000
226 at Adelaide 2005
213 at Sabina Park 1999

All these knocks came against McGrath, Warne and the third bowler was either Gillispee or Lee.

Kallis has just 1 knock which you mentioned and was a great match saving knock but everytime he faced against them he failed everytime.

That 2004-05 had good bowling attack but again this was a series SA lost and although credit to Kallis for a great performance but these are just few performances which you could recall in a 18 year career.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Kallis averaged 41 in first 50 tests, so that also went against him creating his first impression. Most ATG show their greatness during first 50 tests, SRT, Lara, Viv or potential ATGs like Root, Williamson, Kohli or Root. Ponting (mid 40s) and Sanga (48) were attacking batsmen which helped them change impression when hit their peak.

First 6 years, many poor series, slow boring batting, nothing much to show except that 100 against against McGrath from 1995-2001. Then he goes to Zimbabwe and scores big. 388 unbeaten runs.

Then a good series in India but no hudred. 2 series against Aus, again no 100s. Then Bangladesh series and again scores unbeaten 214.

After that 9 tests against Pakistan, SL, Eng and failures in both overseas tours of Eng and Pak with 1 100 in home tour.

Then he hit a big series against WI with 700 runs. Those are his first 8 years of career, 71 tests.

During this phase he averaged in 30s against, Aus, Eng, Pak and SL.

Scoring 4k runs at avg of 41 against top 7 teams and that too at SR of 38 with just 7 100s meant he was just improving his reputation during later years as a batsman.

It's not difficult to see why he wasn't rated much. Of course he was just unstoppable during later years. But people initial impression of player remains for so long as cricket fans follow sports for decades.

 

[AlizeeFan]

With Kallis, it has already been mentioned here but that English fast bowling attack of Hoggard, Harrison, Jones and Flintoff in the 2004-5 period were as tough as they came. None of them were individually close to all time greatness but as a combination in that period they caused problems for most batting line ups including in that famous 2005 Ashes series.

Kallis made 625 runs in that series at 69 with 3 hundreds. That great Australian side a year later (admittedly playing away from home) only had one batsman averaging just over 40 (Langer).

Kallis's first test century was an outstanding knock. Against an attack including McGrath and Warne his 101 saved the test. Without him South Africa would have definitely lost and the pressure was on him as a young player who hadn't done that well at that point.

Thing that England series was his first series when he could have got attention as potential great batsman. Already mentioned in previous post, there wasn't much in his first 8 years and then he hit 4 100s against WI in a series where Sarwan was their 3rd highest wicket taker. For him it was great perforrmance, but it was kind of weak bowling bashing.

England series was real turning point for his reputation as batsman and it came 9 years after his debut. It was way too late. By then he had already played 87 tests.

 

[CricketTruth]

Lara's 153 against McGrath, Warne and Gillispee is regarded as one of the greatest knock of all time and helped WI drew a series against that ATG Australian side.

Add to that,

182 at Adelaide 2000
226 at Adelaide 2005
213 at Sabina Park 1999

All these knocks came against McGrath, Warne and the third bowler was either Gillispee or Lee.

Kallis has just 1 knock which you mentioned and was a great match saving knock but everytime he faced against them he failed everytime.

That 2004-05 had good bowling attack but again this was a series SA lost and although credit to Kallis for a great performance but these are just few performances which you could recall in a 18 year career.

I agree with you about Lara playing more special innings than Kallis. I don't think that point is debatable. The 213 and 153 not out are 2 of the greatest innings ever played. West Indies had just lost 5-0 to South Africa and got thrashed in the first test against Australia getting bowled out for 62.

They were missing Chanderpaul and had a load of passengers in their side. Players like Suruj Ragoonath, Lincoln Roberts and Dave Joseph were being selected.

Lara basically made 213 in the second test when West Indies were in trouble at 40-3. It was virtually a one man show that series from him with the bat. There were some other crucial unexpected performances; Jimmy Adams made 94 to support Lara and Sherwin Campbell made a 100 in the first innings of the third test. But it goes to show just how weak the West Indian batting was in that period that I remember being shocked when Campbell made that hundred, even though he was a top order batsman.

Kallis didn't tend to win matches through electrifying cricket like Lara; he often won matches through steadily setting up a big first innings total for SA and letting the pacemen get to work. His way of winning the match was less spectacular and often SA would win by big margins so the match lacked drama. This tends to make Kallis more forgettable but I don't think it should detract from him as a player.

Lara's 213, 153 not out and destructive 100 in the 4th test are performances that very few players have ever done full stop.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kallis averaged 41 in first 50 tests, so that also went against him creating his first impression. Most ATG show their greatness during first 50 tests, SRT, Lara, Viv or potential ATGs like Root, Williamson, Kohli or Root. Ponting (mid 40s) and Sanga (48) were attacking batsmen which helped them change impression when hit their peak.

First 6 years, many poor series, slow boring batting, nothing much to show except that 100 against against McGrath from 1995-2001. Then he goes to Zimbabwe and scores big. 388 unbeaten runs.

Then a good series in India but no hudred. 2 series against Aus, again no 100s. Then Bangladesh series and again scores unbeaten 214.

After that 9 tests against Pakistan, SL, Eng and failures in both overseas tours of Eng and Pak with 1 100 in home tour.

Then he hit a big series against WI with 700 runs. Those are his first 8 years of career, 71 tests.

During this phase he averaged in 30s against, Aus, Eng, Pak and SL.

Scoring 4k runs at avg of 41 against top 7 teams and that too at SR of 38 with just 7 100s meant he was just improving his reputation during later years as a batsman.

It's not difficult to see why he wasn't rated much. Of course he was just unstoppable during later years. But people initial impression of player remains for so long as cricket fans follow sports for decades.

Well explained.

Even when SA started to win everywhere, here goes the story of Kallis:

2008- SA finally won a series Vs Aus since 1995. Smith and ABD were the show steeler. kallis avgs 37 with a highest score of 63.

2008- SA won a series in England.Kallis avgs 14 with the bat. Did decently with the ball. Smith was the show steeler again.

2010- SA drew a series in India. Kallis scored 203 runs in 2 test series with one score of 173 in the same game in which Amla scored a 253. Again , Amla was the show- steeler.

2012 England series- Another one where he avgd 66 with the bat but had only one great performance i.e.182* coming in the match where Amla scores a triple and Smith also scores a 100.

2012 Aus series- He played a brilliant 147 in first test but that series is remembered for Amla's brilliant 196 and AB- Faf blockathan which saves a test match for their team.

Now considering Kallis hasn't contributed much or doesn't have many standout performances away from home and wasn't great against the strongest bowling attack and moreover was boring and dull to watch, this clearly signifies why he has been so underrated and if not for his consistency and longevity, he won't have been ATG in test.

 

[AlizeeFan]

Kallis didn't tend to win matches through electrifying cricket like Lara; he often won matches through steadily setting up a big first innings total for SA and letting the pacemen get to work. His way of winning the match was less spectacular and often SA would win by big margins so the match lacked drama. This tends to make Kallis more forgettable but I don't think it should detract from him as a player.

No one ever compared Lara and Kallis even though had many years in common. It's not just about drama and his batting style.

Lara's 213, 153 not out and destructive 100 in the 4th test are performances that very few players have ever done full stop.

Lara was never compared with Kallis. In addition to above 2 posts, compare him all his peers till WI series in 2003.

Almost any good batsman from any team was rated as good as him for long time. You could find 25-30 batsmen better than him during that phase.

 

[TestMatch]

Kallis seems rated properly; a boring as hell but super reliable workhorse who, especially in the second half of his career, quietly won games.

 

[Ted123]

Well explained.

Even when SA started to win everywhere, here goes the story of Kallis:

2008- SA finally won a series Vs Aus since 1995. Smith and ABD were the show steeler. kallis avgs 37 with a highest score of 63.

2008- SA won a series in England.Kallis avgs 14 with the bat. Did decently with the ball. Smith was the show steeler again.

2010- SA drew a series in India. Kallis scored 203 runs in 2 test series with one score of 173 in the same game in which Amla scored a 253. Again , Amla was the show- steeler.

2012 England series- Another one where he avgd 66 with the bat but had only one great performance i.e.182* coming in the match where Amla scores a triple and Smith also scores a 100.

2012 Aus series- He played a brilliant 147 in first test but that series is remembered for Amla's brilliant 196 and AB- Faf blockathan which saves a test match for their team.

Now considering Kallis hasn't contributed much or doesn't have many standout performances away from home and wasn't great against the strongest bowling attack and moreover was boring and dull to watch, this clearly signifies why he has been so underrated and if not for his consistency and longevity, he won't have been ATG in test.

Between 2008-2014, he has been outperformed by Smith, Amla and ABDV.

 

[SLcric123]

I agree with you about Lara playing more special innings than Kallis. I don't think that point is debatable. The 213 and 153 not out are 2 of the greatest innings ever played. West Indies had just lost 5-0 to South Africa and got thrashed in the first test against Australia getting bowled out for 62.

They were missing Chanderpaul and had a load of passengers in their side. Players like Suruj Ragoonath, Lincoln Roberts and Dave Joseph were being selected.

Lara basically made 213 in the second test when West Indies were in trouble at 40-3. It was virtually a one man show that series from him with the bat. There were some other crucial unexpected performances; Jimmy Adams made 94 to support Lara and Sherwin Campbell made a 100 in the first innings of the third test. But it goes to show just how weak the West Indian batting was in that period that I remember being shocked when Campbell made that hundred, even though he was a top order batsman.

Kallis didn't tend to win matches through electrifying cricket like Lara; he often won matches through steadily setting up a big first innings total for SA and letting the pacemen get to work. His way of winning the match was less spectacular and often SA would win by big margins so the match lacked drama. This tends to make Kallis more forgettable but I don't think it should detract from him as a player.

Lara's 213, 153 not out and destructive 100 in the 4th test are performances that very few players have ever done full stop.

Kallis used to chip in when others were already there. A point to be noted is that Lara has 9 scores of 200+ including a 375 and 400* while Kallis has 2.

 

[Robert]

Kallis averaged 41 in first 50 tests, so that also went against him creating his first impression. Most ATG show their greatness during first 50 tests, SRT, Lara, Viv or potential ATGs like Root, Williamson, Kohli or Root. Ponting (mid 40s) and Sanga (48) were attacking batsmen which helped them change impression when hit their peak.

First 6 years, many poor series, slow boring batting, nothing much to show except that 100 against against McGrath from 1995-2001. Then he goes to Zimbabwe and scores big. 388 unbeaten runs.

Then a good series in India but no hudred. 2 series against Aus, again no 100s. Then Bangladesh series and again scores unbeaten 214.

After that 9 tests against Pakistan, SL, Eng and failures in both overseas tours of Eng and Pak with 1 100 in home tour.

Then he hit a big series against WI with 700 runs. Those are his first 8 years of career, 71 tests.

During this phase he averaged in 30s against, Aus, Eng, Pak and SL.

Scoring 4k runs at avg of 41 against top 7 teams and that too at SR of 38 with just 7 100s meant he was just improving his reputation during later years as a batsman.

It's not difficult to see why he wasn't rated much. Of course he was just unstoppable during later years. But people initial impression of player remains for so long as cricket fans follow sports for decades.

Good analysis.

 

[Saffer_XIII]

Well explained.

Even when SA started to win everywhere, here goes the story of Kallis:

2008- SA finally won a series Vs Aus since 1995. Smith and ABD were the show steeler. kallis avgs 37 with a highest score of 63.

2008- SA won a series in England.Kallis avgs 14 with the bat. Did decently with the ball. Smith was the show steeler again.

2010- SA drew a series in India. Kallis scored 203 runs in 2 test series with one score of 173 in the same game in which Amla scored a 253. Again , Amla was the show- steeler.

2012 England series- Another one where he avgd 66 with the bat but had only one great performance i.e.182* coming in the match where Amla scores a triple and Smith also scores a 100.

2012 Aus series- He played a brilliant 147 in first test but that series is remembered for Amla's brilliant 196 and AB- Faf blockathan which saves a test match for their team.

Now considering Kallis hasn't contributed much or doesn't have many standout performances away from home and wasn't great against the strongest bowling attack and moreover was boring and dull to watch, this clearly signifies why he has been so underrated and if not for his consistency and longevity, he won't have been ATG in test.

This just makes me appreciate Smith and Amla so much more.

 

[Ab Fan]

This just makes me appreciate Smith and Amla so much more.

True. However, Kallis during this period helped SA saving a test series Vs India at home which was a great performance from him overall but apart from that most others were him scoring in supporting roles.

Add that 2014 series in UAE which Smith and ABD drew. Although Kallis was on the verge of retirement at that time.

 

[Hasan123]

Kallis averaged 41 in first 50 tests, so that also went against him creating his first impression. Most ATG show their greatness during first 50 tests, SRT, Lara, Viv or potential ATGs like Root, Williamson, Kohli or Root. Ponting (mid 40s) and Sanga (48) were attacking batsmen which helped them change impression when hit their peak.

First 6 years, many poor series, slow boring batting, nothing much to show except that 100 against against McGrath from 1995-2001. Then he goes to Zimbabwe and scores big. 388 unbeaten runs.

Then a good series in India but no hudred. 2 series against Aus, again no 100s. Then Bangladesh series and again scores unbeaten 214.

After that 9 tests against Pakistan, SL, Eng and failures in both overseas tours of Eng and Pak with 1 100 in home tour.

Then he hit a big series against WI with 700 runs. Those are his first 8 years of career, 71 tests.

During this phase he averaged in 30s against, Aus, Eng, Pak and SL.

Scoring 4k runs at avg of 41 against top 7 teams and that too at SR of 38 with just 7 100s meant he was just improving his reputation during later years as a batsman.

It's not difficult to see why he wasn't rated much. Of course he was just unstoppable during later years. But people initial impression of player remains for so long as cricket fans follow sports for decades.

Absolutely brilliant analysis. This makes it clear why he isn't rated highly. A solid ATG but nothing more.

 

[barnold]

i agree
he never gave his wicket away batting
he never gave runs away bowling
he caught the ball fielding
he was the go to guy who steadied the ship when the game was getting away
the one player from his era that his team is still struggling to replace
he could walk into any team in the world

 

[khurram39]

He is in ATG. No one under rate him.

 

[SL_Fan]

He wasn't all that great to watch from the outside and there's no hype machine behind him so he doesn't really get the credit that he deserves. But if you ask the top players who played with and against him I'm sure most would say that he's right up there among the very best to ever play the game. Over 13k Test runs @ 55 with 45 Test tons and close to 300 Test wickets @ 32 plus 200 catches. Those are just unreal numbers.

 

[Hitman]

He wasn't all that great to watch from the outside and there's no hype machine behind him so he doesn't really get the credit that he deserves. But if you ask the top players who played with and against him I'm sure most would say that he's right up there among the very best to ever play the game. Over 13k Test runs @ 55 with 45 Test tons and close to 300 Test wickets @ 32 plus 200 catches. Those are just unreal numbers.

I believe you get hype and acclaim when you are attractive and entertaining to watch. Have a look at Dravid, another player of Kallis's time who batted much like him. Dravid too got very little hype and acclaim from the cricketing world compared to the likes of Sachin, Lara and Ponting. Sure, they were and still are respected, but they were never box office.

 

[SL_Fan]

I believe you get hype and acclaim when you are attractive and entertaining to watch. Have a look at Dravid, another player of Kallis's time who batted much like him. Dravid too got very little hype and acclaim from the cricketing world compared to the likes of Sachin, Lara and Ponting. Sure, they were and still are respected, but they were never box office.

Had Kallis been English, Indian or an Aussie would have never heard the end of it

 

[SL_Fan]

A proper 4th fast bowling option averaging 55+ with the bat in the top order that is one heck of a player.

 

[SL_Fan]

Plus safe as houses in the slips as well. Can hardly remember him dropping catches. One of a kind.

 

[squarecut]

Kallis was as great an allrounder as Gary Sobers in my book. He retired with a test record that was quite comparable to Sobers test record vis a vis the prevailing records of that time.

 

[Hitman]

Had Kallis been English, Indian or an Aussie would have never heard the end of it

He would have never been a box office hit irrespective of whichever country he played for. Dravid scored more than 13,000 Test runs and 10,000 ODI runs. Yet was never a box office hit for the same reasons.

 

[Major]

Why doesn't Jacques Kallis get due recognition for his batting?

The batting of the likes of Dravid, Lara, Sangakara, Tendulkar and Miandad often gets discussed, but very rarely i have seen Jacques Kallis batting been discussed.

The guy made 13289 runs in test at an avg of 55.37 . Only Sanga Avgs more than him, while Kallis has scored more runs than him.

Is Kallis under-rated? Do that stats lie? Was he not a great batsmen?

 

[Hitman]

Never managed to capture the imagination of the fans like Viv, Sachin, Lara, Ponting did. As a fan whom did you perceive more dangerous, Ponting or Kallis?

 

[Justcrazy]

Not perceived as a Match Winner , like Dravid.

 

[angrypathan]

Because he was boring.

 

[jaf348]

He is a bonafide ATG, no one will deny that. He just didn't have the same aura or flair in his batting compared to his peers Sachin, Lara or Ponting.

 

[ManFan]

He was the Allan Border of his time.

A flamboyant stroke-maker early on forced to compensate to an armadillo technique to protect a fragile batting line-up.

Classy yet redundant, impactful yet standard... you get the idea.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

He is undoubtedly an ATG,but lacked that superstar aura for some reason.

 

[Zaz]

Kalis unfortunately lacked impact and wasn’t a flamboyant stroke maker like his peers hence why he isn’t talked about in the same terms

 

[Hasan123]

Due to his personality and his batting style wasn't very entertaining. An ATG nonetheless.

 

[big_gamer007]

He is recognised..

He is below Lara, Tendulkar ponting level however he is sanga, Dravid level.. Everyone recognises that so not sure where you get this idea he is not recognised for his batting abilities?

Everyone sees him as an ATG and possibly a top 3 AR of all times.

 

[iPakistani]

Jacques Kallis - Greatest, Overrated or Underrated?

His numbers as a batsman itself are good enough to be considered a great, but on top of that throw on 577 international wickets is astonishing for a single cricketer.

Is he the greatest overall player of all time?

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

In tests, he is slightly overrated with the bat. He was not as good as the very best lik Lara or Sachin or Ponting. I would rate him below Sanga and Dravid as well.

But his bowling was underrated and undrvalued. He is the greatest all round cricketer since Imran Khan.

 

[pratiktc]

Amazingly talented cricketer. ATG batsman with balanced career record around the world and ticks off longevity box too.

As a bowler had great promise in his youth where he could touch high 80's and bowl great outswing. Reduced his workload to focus on batting and become a support seamer/partnership breaker. But IMO he could easily have developed into a quality new ball bowler with sub 30 avg. and close to 3.6-3.7 wickets per match.

It is unfair to compare him with big 4 bowling all-rounders of the mod 80's. Kallis took on role of top order batsmen unlike them. Can only really compare him with Sobers and Miller and he is right up there almost equal to them.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Greatest batting all rounder of all time.

If he had won a world cup as Pakistani or Indian he would be called the undisputed greatest all rounder of all time.

Sadly his team kept choking in world cups..

 

[hk031992]

In tests, he is slightly overrated with the bat. He was not as good as the very best lik Lara or Sachin or Ponting. I would rate him below Sanga and Dravid as well.

But his bowling was underrated and undrvalued. He is the greatest all round cricketer since Imran Khan.

below Lara,Tendulkar, and Ponting but ahead of Dravid.

 

[Bhaijaan]

That’s because he’s never been the man. All his career he pretty much played second fiddle to someone either Gibbs, Smith, ABD, Amla. At the end of the day a great players really need to take full control of the game and dominate it.

Same with Sangakkara. A lot of runs but you never felt threatened by his presence.

Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting are regarded best in their generation because they humiliated great bowling attacks on numerous occasions and took the game away on their own pretty much.

 

[QalandarFan]

He's classified as an ATG by almost everyone but yeah he doesn't posses that Aura that a guy like Ponting did. As far as bowling goes was never a big fan of his bowling and when it comes to all-rounders I would pick Imran Khan over him, as Imran was much more destructive than him and would win you games by himself as Ponting could also do.

 

[PakLFC]

Coz Kallis was incredibly boring to watch. Don't know why South African players are so boring although effective.

 

[Ab Fan]

He would chip in with runs everytime he comes to bat but perhaps the lack of memorable innings as well as the lack of flair and excitement in his game is why he wasn't getting his due for years.

However, I felt he got his due eventually in the latter period of his career when people finally understood the utility of the man.

Without a doubt, an ATG with the bat, a great slip catcher and good enough with the bowl as well.

 

[daytrader]

Highest Batting Average in ICC Knockout matches

59.88 - Jacques Kallis
57.00 - Virat Kohli
56.50 - Shane Watson
53.22 - S Chanderpaul
52.33 - Rohit Sharma
50.53 - Sachin Tendulkar

(Min 10 Innings)

Happy Birthday to one of the greatest to grace the game.

 

[MenInG]

Jacques Kallis in Tests:

Runs: 13,289
Average: 55.37
Hundreds: 45
Wickets: 292
Average: 32.65
Catches: 200

 

[sweep_shot]

He is definitely underrated.

I think the reason for that is he wasn't a flamboyant figure. He stayed under the radar all of his career.

 

[Bewal Express]

Too efficient. He lacked the flair that a Tend or Lara had but not the talent or the stats. A brilliant player criminally under rated, not least by the likes of me, who should have known better.

 

[sweep_shot]

Too efficient. He lacked the flair that a Tend or Lara had but not the talent or the stats. A brilliant player criminally under rated, not least by the likes of me, who should have known better.

I think Kallis was far more impactful than Lara.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think Kallis was far more impactful than Lara.

Lara was box office,,Kallis wasn't. Lara had real flair, Kallis didn't but Kallis had amazing stats

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes box office, flair and flamboyance was missing which is why he went under the radar for the first 10 years of his career.

Also, while he didn't played many knocks which were ATG level or extremely memorable, he was consistent throughout his career.