Why Is Patriarchy Seen As A Bad Thing?

[SalimBhai]

)

Go say that to the Jews and Zionists.

I thi k he is saying he does not agree with the divine right

 

[SalimBhai]

In response to [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] saying that single women are entitled to have consensual sex with whomever they want


Do I take advice about driving a car from a tribesman who has never driven a car?

Do I take medical advice from someone who is illiterate?

No offence, but the only people whose opinions are valid or worthwhile about the rights of women are the people in whose countries they live longer, get more highly educated and obtain good jobs. Opinions from places where those indicators have terrible outcomes I will just disregard as being from Failed States.

If ask someone in Yemen they are likely to tell me that she needs to cover her hair, be a virgin until she marries and only get educated or work if her father approves. So I literally couldn't care less what those people from Failed States think.

Its like asking the student who is last in class for advice or trying to make him a role model. Why would you look at the Middle East for advice on women when they are at the bottom of the chart

 

[SalimBhai]

How are they in any way comparable?. Pakistanis sought secession based upon a lack of rights. Israel is the creation of state for foreign people on natives land!.

As much as I hate Israel for its treatment for Palestinians, jews to have a right to Israel. They lived there before getting kicked out ( not by Arabs, muslims, Palestinians). They have a right to return. Palestinians have an equal right to the land also

 

[SalimBhai]

Adulthood age varies from country to country. I think it is disrespectful to apply western age to Pakistan or another country.

We should respect norms/regulations of different countries.

4. Marital rape. Getting married is not consent to having sex when you do not want it. Any husband who forces his wife to have sex when she does not want it is a sexual offender, and should be on a Sexual Offenders Register for the rest of his life.
what about point 4

 

[SalimBhai]

Nope. There is no connection between having a strong brother and honor killings.

Two separate issues.

I do not support honor killing.

It seems you support actions and behaviors that lead to honor killings

 

[Abel Reames]

Big no.

Even if you replace patriarchy with matriarchy there, issues like corruption, poverty, and overpopulation are unlikely to change. Those issues need different solutions.

Both poverty and overpopulation can be reduced by giving women economic empowerment, education and reproductive rights over their own bodies. Bangladesh has improved its poverty and population indicators by doing exactly this.

 

[SalimBhai]

British Empire looted $45-trillion from Indian subcontinent alone. Who knows what the amount is from Africa?

If any civilization loots that much, advancement is always likely.

If poor countries get $45-trillion, I am sure they can also become advanced.

Now I am am not an admirer of colonization, may it be Europe/turks/Arabs or whatever. However Saudi Arabia is rich, has been for a very long time. Any scientific advancements from them?

 

[SalimBhai]

Leftists are out of touch with reality.

I recently saw an interview where a gender studies professor was uncomfortable with the word "truth".

Man you keep on brining gender studies. Do you have any idea how many people study gender studies. I think 2.2 million degrees were given out in the USA last year. Out of those 2.2 million, 16,000 were social behavior. ( anthropology, gender, race studies and so on), So out of those 16,000 a few ( I don't know the number) were gender studies. You bring that up in every argument. As if half of USA is majoring in gender studies

 

[SalimBhai]

Ruthless lust for power and dominion. Were they patriarchal traits? Who knows, but we would be reluctant to divest ourselves of those gains so what does that say about us?

And scientific advancements

 

[sweep_shot]

Sir you are ok with the king of sauidi having 26 wives. You can cover anything is the cloak of religion and its people will eat it up.

Where did I say having 26 wives is okay?

Maximum allowed is 4 at any given time.

So, if someone marries 4, divorces those 4, and marries again (rinse and repeat), I guess that's okay legally.

I was pointing out marriage is better than sleeping around unmarried.

According to some sources she was a prostitutes. Sorry don't have her employment letter with salary verification to prove it.

OK. I am a Muslim. Not a Christian. My primary sources are Quran and Hadiths. There is no mention of Mary Magdalene in Islam as far as I know.

I check out Torah and Bible sometimes but we Muslims believe Bible has been distorted. Original copy is lost.

4. Marital rape. Getting married is not consent to having sex when you do not want it. Any husband who forces his wife to have sex when she does not want it is a sexual offender, and should be on a Sexual Offenders Register for the rest of his life.
what about point 4

I am anti-rape.

I don't think husband should force his wife to have sex.

Here's some info for you:

"According to Dar al-Ifta al-Misriyyah, Islamic scholars condemn when a husband uses violence to force his wife to sleep with him or asks his wife to have sexual intercourse during her menstrual period, in an abnormal sexual position, or during fasting hours in Ramadan. In response the wife has the right to take her husband to court and he must be punished for the act. According to this opinion, a wife has numerous grounds to refuse sexual relations with her husband, including if he has a contagious disease or if sexual intercourse hurts her body.[19] Islamic law advises that the sexual intercourse between man and wife should be conducted with intimacy and love."

It seems you support actions and behaviors that lead to honor killings

I support corrective actions (dialogue and diplomacy). Honor killing is done by a small minority of people. Most people don't do it. It shows there is no relation between those actions and honor killing.

[/B]

Not its not

There is very little (if any) difference between homicide and honor killing. In both cases, people die and often violently.

As much as I hate Israel for its treatment for Palestinians, jews to have a right to Israel. They lived there before getting kicked out ( not by Arabs, muslims, Palestinians). They have a right to return. Palestinians have an equal right to the land also

Do you know that State of Israel actually goes against Judaism. It is why ultraorthodox Jews oppose Israel.

State of Israel breaks 2 commandments out of 10 commandments - do not steal and do not kill.

BTW, check out this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKplabTRuak&ab_channel=VICE.

 

[SalimBhai]

Guys like Robert and Junaids seem to think only western ways are the right ways; all other ways are wrong.

I think the following video shows how some of the western issues are really non-issues outside of west:

They are issues. Just swept under the carpet for now as they have more pressing issues at hand

 

[SalimBhai]

Do you see any poverty in Saudi Arabia or other gulf states?

Benevolent patriarchy doesn't cause poverty or corruption. Poverty or corruption happens due to greed and other factors.

Come on man. Gulf states are rich due to luck with oil. Other than that they produce nothing. Dates would be the next item they produce. They fail in most things other societies consider important

 

[SalimBhai]

Where did I say having 26 wives is okay?

Maximum allowed is 4 at any given time.

So, if someone marries 4, divorces those 4, and marries again (rinse and repeat), I guess that's okay legally.

I was pointing out marriage is better than sleeping around unmarried.

But if done within religious context its ok to have 26 wives.



OK. I am a Muslim. Not a Christian. My primary sources are Quran and Hadiths. There is no mention of Mary Magdalene in Islam as far as I know.

I check out Torah and Bible sometimes but we Muslims believe Bible has been distorted. Original copy is lost.



I am anti-rape.

I don't think husband should force his wife to have sex.

Here's some info for you:

"According to Dar al-Ifta al-Misriyyah, Islamic scholars condemn when a husband uses violence to force his wife to sleep with him or asks his wife to have sexual intercourse during her menstrual period, in an abnormal sexual position, or during fasting hours in Ramadan. In response the wife has the right to take her husband to court and he must be punished for the act. According to this opinion, a wife has numerous grounds to refuse sexual relations with her husband, including if he has a contagious disease or if sexual intercourse hurts her body.[19] Islamic law advises that the sexual intercourse between man and wife should be conducted with intimacy and love."

There are plenty of Hadiths out there where men have more leverage over women when it comes to sex






I support corrective actions (dialogue and diplomacy). Honor killing is done by a small minority of people. Most people don't do it. It shows there is no relation between those actions and honor killing.

NOT TRUE




There is very little (if any) difference between homicide and honor killing. In both cases, people die and often violently.


What kinds statement is that


Do you know that State of Israel actually goes against Judaism. It is why ultraorthodox Jews oppose Israel.

Yes I know. But I don't believe in religions. Jews lived in Israel and were kicked out, so them returning is not an issue. its their right

State of Israel breaks 2 commandments out of 10 commandments - do not steal and do not kill.

BTW, check out this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKplabTRuak&ab_channel=VICE.

See above

 

[sweep_shot]

Yes I know. But I don't believe in religions. Jews lived in Israel and were kicked out, so them returning is not an issue. its their right

So, should aboriginal Americans kick out all white people? It doesn't work that way. Your logic is faulty.

Also, Israel was founded by European Jews (Ashkenazi Jews). They are not natives to Palestine.

 

[sweep_shot]

Come on man. Gulf states are rich due to luck with oil. Other than that they produce nothing. Dates would be the next item they produce. They fail in most things other societies consider important

So what?

They have money and high patriarchy. Patriarchy isn't causing them to suffer poverty like you have claimed earlier. You wrote there is a relation between patriarchy and poverty which is clearly not the case.

 

[SalimBhai]

? It doesn't work that way. Your logic is faulty.

Also, Israel was founded by European Jews (Ashkenazi Jews). They are not natives to Palestine.

What, ???? What did I say exactly that makes you equate my statement to equal of "So, should aboriginal Americans kick out all white people

 

[sweep_shot]

What, ???? What did I say exactly that makes you equate my statement to equal of "So, should aboriginal Americans kick out all white people

You said Jews have a right to return to their lands. But, the problem is, this is not their land. These are mostly European Jews. They are natives to Europe; not Palestine.

Local Jews (non-European) were already living side by side with Muslims and Christians before Israel happened.

Also, they were offered Uganda as a potential Jewish state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme) but they decided to come to Palestine.

 

[SalimBhai]

So what?

They have money and high patriarchy. Patriarchy isn't causing them to suffer poverty like you have claimed earlier. You wrote there is a relation between patriarchy and poverty which is clearly not the case.

I am sorry, but I have to ask how old you are. Saudi Arabia is an under developed nation. It fails in most things , a first world country would put emphasis on. Yes its rich, only due to OIL. It has NO other contribution to the world.

 

[Abel Reames]

There is very little (if any) difference between homicide and honor killing. In both cases, people die and often violently.

That's like saying a young girl or boy being sexually abused by a father is the same as being abused by the next door neighbour.

 

[SalimBhai]

You said Jews have a right to return to their lands. But, the problem is, this is not their land. These are mostly European Jews. They are natives to Europe; not Palestine.

They were offered Uganda as a potential Jewish state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Scheme) but they decided to come to Palestine.

But jews homeland is not Uganda. Its Israel. The same homeland of the Palestinians. The jews are just returning back to their homeland. Now I don't agree with anything the current Israel stands for.

 

[sweep_shot]

That's like saying a young girl or boy being sexually abused by a father is the same as being abused by the next door neighbour.

Both should be condemned. Happy?

No need to discuss minor issues like a Star Plus auntie.

 

[Robert]

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam prohibit homosexuality. Please read more. Don't make up facts.



This is from Bible:

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [by perversion], nor those who participate in homosexuality. (1 Corinthians 6:9)

Reads like a modern translation to me. The King James Version says:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Anyway that was written by St Paul, not Jesus.

 

[sweep_shot]

But jews homeland is not Uganda. Its Israel. The same homeland of the Palestinians. The jews are just returning back to their homeland. Now I don't agree with anything the current Israel stands for.

Palestine belonged to Muslims before Israel. You don't just come and steal land like that.

Jews were kicked out because of valid reasons. Anyway. That was a long time ago. Also, we are going off-topic.

 

[Abel Reames]

Both should be condemned. Happy?

No need to discuss minor issues like a Star Plus auntie.

Do you think it is the same?

 

[sweep_shot]

Reads like a modern translation to me. The King James Version says:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Anyway that was written by St Paul, not Jesus.

Mankind here means man. Looks like you don't know your own Bible.

BTW, I have checked different translations.

Mainstream Christianity condemns homosexuality. It is a fact.

 

[sweep_shot]

Reads like a modern translation to me. The King James Version says:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Anyway that was written by St Paul, not Jesus.

Mankind here means man. Looks like you don't know your own Bible.

BTW, I have checked different translations.

Mainstream Christianity condemns homosexuality. It is a fact.

Here's another Bible verse for you (condemning homosexuality):

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality
and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the
eternal fire of God's judgment.

 

[SalimBhai]

Palestine belonged to Muslims before Israel. You don't just come and steal land like that.

Jews were kicked out because of valid reasons. Anyway. That was a long time ago. Also, we are going off-topic.

And just so if I may add, There are also christians who claim rightfully to the land of Israel.

 

[SalimBhai]

Palestine belonged to Muslims before Israel. You don't just come and steal land like that.

Jews were kicked out because of valid reasons. Anyway. That was a long time ago. Also, we are going off-topic.

Hahhahahhahhaha.
Dude jews lived there way before islam came into existence.

 

[sweep_shot]

Hahhahahhahhaha.
Dude jews lived there way before islam came into existence.

That was 2000 years ago. Do you want to return your country to the people who lived 2000 years ago?

Also, Jews are not supposed to have their own homeland (till their Messiah comes) as per their theology.

Finally, you seem confused about European Jews. Their home is Europe; not Palestine.

 

[Robert]

Mankind here means man. Looks like you don't know your own Bible.

BTW, I have checked different translations.

Mainstream Christianity condemns homosexuality. It is a fact.

Does it? How do you know what the original Aramaic said? The prohibition in Leviticus states that gay sex is "abomination" but the Aramaic word for "abomination" is the same as for "unhygienic".

Leviticus also says that when a woman has her period she should go and sit in an outhouse away from the men so as not to upset them.

It also says she should not have a leather handbag.

All this is rather out of whack with the teachings of Jesus about forgiveness and kindness to others.

How do I know all this? By reading the Bible and around it - years before you were born, I suspect.

 

[sweep_shot]

Does it? How do you know what the original Aramaic said? The prohibition in Leviticus states that gay sex is "abomination" but the Aramaic word for "abomination" is the same as for "unhygienic".

Leviticus also says that when a woman has her period she should go and sit in an outhouse away from the men so as not to upset them.

It also says she should not have a leather handbag.

All this is rather out of whack with the teachings of Jesus about forgiveness and kindness to others.

How do I know all this? By reading the Bible and around it - years before you were born, I suspect.

No. These are your own interpretations. You are the same guy who believes there is no Anti-Christ and who is an agnostic. So, you are not in a position to interpret Bible.

I checked out different Christian preachers and they all said homosexuality is prohibited in Christianity.

Also, I mentioned once that we Muslims believe Bible has been distorted. Original Bible is lost. We have Quran and Hadith; no need for Bible.

But, I read Bible and Torah sometimes out of curiosity. There are many common areas obviously.

 

[Robert]

Here's another Bible verse for you (condemning homosexuality):

Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality
and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the
eternal fire of God's judgment.

If you read the Bible story, God appeared to nuke the cities of the plain from orbit because the people there had committed the sin of inhospitality. Lot offered the rape gang his daughters instead of the two angels. Not nice. Then his daughters could find no men to marry because the men had all been nuked from orbit, so they got Lot drunk and impregnated themselves via him.

Its not the most morally uplifting tale.

 

[SalimBhai]

That was 2000 years ago. Do you want to return your country to the people who lived 2000 years ago?

Also, Jews are not supposed to have their own homeland (till their Messiah comes) as per their theology.

Finally, you seem confused about European Jews. Their home is Europe; not Palestine.

Sir they left Israel for Europe and now have come back.

 

[sweep_shot]

If you read the Bible story, God appeared to nuke the cities of the plain from orbit because the people there had committed the sin of inhospitality. Lot offered the rape gang his daughters instead of the two angels. Not nice. Then his daughters could find no men to marry because the men had all been nuked from orbit, so they got Lot drunk and impregnated themselves via him.

Its not the most morally uplifting tale.

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed due to homosexuality. That's the mainstream position in all 3 Abrahamic religions.

Your interpretation comes from your own interpretation. Again, you are the same guy who calls himself an agnostic; so, it is hilarious that you are suddenly interpreting Bible.

BTW, here's the Islamic take:

The Quran contains twelve references to "the people of Lut", the biblical Lot, the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah presumably, and their destruction by God which is associated primarily with their homosexual practices, which the Quran states they were the first creatures to commit such a deed.[98][99][100][101] On the other hand, certain contemporary western scholars assert that the reason for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a combination of sexual assault, breaking the hospitality law and engaging in robbery.[102][103][104]

The "people of Lot" transgressed consciously against the bounds of God. Lot only prayed to God to be saved from doing as they did. Then Gabriel met Lot and said that he must leave the city quickly, as God had given this command to Lot to save his life. In the Quran it was written that Lot's wife stayed behind, as she had transgressed. She met her fate in the disaster, and only Lot and his family were saved during the destruction of their city,[105] with the understanding that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are identified in Genesis, but "the location remains unnamed in the Qur'an"[106]

In the Quran, chapter 26 (The Poets) –

So, We saved him and his family, all. Except an old woman among those who remained behind.

— Quran 26:170[107]
Commentary: This was his wife, who was a bad old woman. She stayed behind and was destroyed with whoever else was left. This is similar to what Allah says about them in Surat Al-A`raf and Surat Hud, and in Surat Al-Hijr, where Allah commanded him to take his family at night, except for his wife, and not to turn around when they heard the Sayhah as it came upon his people. So they patiently obeyed the command of Allah and persevered, and Allah sent upon the people a punishment which struck them all, and rained upon them stones of baked clay, piled up.

— Tafsir ibn Kathir (Commentary by Ibn Kathir)[108]

 

[Robert]

No. These are your own interpretations. You are the same guy who believes there is no Anti-Christ and who is an agnostic. So, you are not in a position to interpret Bible.

I checked out different Christian preachers and they all said homosexuality is prohibited in Christianity.

Also, I mentioned once that we Muslims believe Bible has been distorted. Original Bible is lost. We have Quran and Hadith; no need for Bible.

But, I read Bible and Torah sometimes out of curiosity. There are many common areas obviously.

It's all interpretation. I don't believe Harry Potter exists, but I can still discuss the metaphors within the books.

 

[SalimBhai]

But this issue is dead on arrival. Its like beating a dead horse.Israel won this one. They will take every inch of land from the Palestinians In a few decades there will be no West Bank or Gaza

 

[sweep_shot]

But this issue is dead on arrival. Its like beating a dead horse.Israel won this one. They will take every inch of land from the Palestinians In a few decades there will be no West Bank or Gaza

That's okay. You can believe sky is pink. Doesn't make it true.

Actually, it is in our prophecy that evil will exist in that region during last days. Prophet Jesus (PBUH) will come and kill Antichrist at the Gate of Ludd (which is in modern day Israel).

So, fingers crossed.

 

[SalimBhai]

I would not hold my breath

 

[sweep_shot]

Anyway. We are going off-topic. Topic is patriarchy.

To reiterate, I believe in these:

- Benevolent patriarchy ensures stability and long-term success of society.
- Benevolent patriarchy doesn't cause poverty (as some have written).
- Benevolent patriarchy is good for women as it aids them and guides them.
- Benevolent patriarchy is essential to reduce moral decline.
- Benevolent patriarchy is essential to stop absurd and abnormal ideas (for example, gender identity pseudoscience).

 

[SalimBhai]

Anyway. We are going off-topic. Topic is patriarchy.

To reiterate, I believe in these:

- Benevolent patriarchy ensures stability and long-term success of society.
- Benevolent patriarchy doesn't cause poverty (as some have written).
- Benevolent patriarchy is good for women as it aids them and guides them.
- Benevolent patriarchy is essential to reduce moral decline.
- Benevolent patriarchy is essential to stop absurd and abnormal ideas (for example, gender identity pseudoscience).

I think all those points have been proven wrong by multiple people on this forum. But u believe what you want sonny.

 

[Abel Reames]

Anyway. We are going off-topic. Topic is patriarchy.

To reiterate, I believe in these:

- Benevolent patriarchy ensures stability and long-term success of society.
- Benevolent patriarchy doesn't cause poverty (as some have written).
- Benevolent patriarchy is good for women as it aids them and guides them.
- Benevolent patriarchy is essential to reduce moral decline.
- Benevolent patriarchy is essential to stop absurd and abnormal ideas (for example, gender identity pseudoscience).

Benevolent patriarchy - Where male approval is necessary for women to survive.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Benevolent patriarchy - Where male approval is necessary for women to survive.

You can substitute Benevolent Patriarchy with Benevolent Matriarchy/Communism/Hindutva/Socialism/Naziism/Zionism/Crusades/Racism....)

There can be benevolent azzwhoopins and beatdowns too if you think about it.

 

[sweep_shot]

Benevolent patriarchy - Where male approval is necessary for women to survive.

Approval is not automatically a bad thing.

Good families are generally approval-based.

Dysfunctional families (like the ones you see in west) tend to have no approval system and it simply doesn't work.

 

[Abel Reames]

You can substitute Benevolent Patriarchy with Benevolent Matriarchy/Communism/Hindutva/Socialism/Naziism/Zionism/Crusades/Racism....)

There can be benevolent azzwhoopins and beatdowns too if you think about it.

Benevolent Zionism. Palestinians living in Israel live better lives by all indicators maybe the West Bank and Gaza could benefit with some benevolent Zionism.

Apparently there is such a notion as benevolent racism/prejudice. I guess the white male sits on the top of that tree.

 

[sweep_shot]

You can substitute Benevolent Patriarchy with Benevolent Matriarchy/Communism/Hindutva/Socialism/Naziism/Zionism/Crusades/Racism....)

There can be benevolent azzwhoopins and beatdowns too if you think about it.

Benevolent Zionism. Palestinians living in Israel live better lives by all indicators maybe the West Bank and Gaza could benefit with some benevolent Zionism.

Apparently there is such a notion as benevolent racism/prejudice. I guess the white male sits on the top of that tree.

It is preposterous and laughable to compare patriarchy to evil like Zionism, Nazism, Hindutva, and Communism.

But, I guess that is how radical liberals think. They are out of touch with reality and common sense. They want everyone to live like wild animals; no rules and unlimited freedom.

 

[Abel Reames]

Approval is not automatically a bad thing.

It is when those giving and those seeking approval is based on no other criteria than what is between their legs.

Good families are generally approval-based.

Dysfunctional families (like the ones you see in west) tend to have no approval system and it simply doesn't work.

The majority of sexual abuse of minors occurs within families in all cultures.

 

[Abel Reames]

It is preposterous and laughable to compare patriarchy to evil like Zionism, Nazism, Hindutva, and Communism.

Just like you don't see patriarchy as evil I don't think Zionist, Nazis, Hindutva or communists see themselves as evil. Evil is in the eye of the beholder. It is less preposterous and laughable than someone who compares sexual abuse of minors by the father than by the next door neighbour.

But, I guess that is how radical liberals think. They are out of touch with reality and common sense.

It is about power. In patriarchy males hold the power over women. In Zionism in Israel/Palestine the zionist holds power over the Palestinian.

 

[Abel Reames]

They want everyone to live like wild animals; no rules and unlimited freedom.

Just because you're not getting any don't mean the rest of us shouldn't.

 

[Junaids]

Ibn Saud lived from 1875 to 1953.

He was amongst other things, a man who openly admitted that he committed his first murder at the age of 27. He basically assembled multiple districts into a country, and named it after himself - Saudi Arabia.

Ibn Saud was a religious fanatic and fundamentalist, who had almost 100 children and kept four wives and 22 concubines at a time, claiming that the Koran has no prohibition on concubines or on non-consensual sex with slaves if you treat them well.

He died one year after Queen Elizabeth II rose to the British throne.

In that time since 1953, Saudi Arabia has had 6 Kings, by 5 different mothers.

And Ibn Saud was the father of all those Kings (as well as 92 other children by over 20 other women).

If that doesn't make him promiscuous, I don't know what would.

 

[sweep_shot]

It is about power. In patriarchy males hold the power over women. In Zionism in Israel/Palestine the zionist holds power over the Palestinian.

LOL. You are comparing father-daughter relation with Palestine-Israel issue. No comparison whatsoever.

Father has the right to guide her daughter. Nothing wrong with it.

Just because you're not getting any don't mean the rest of us shouldn't.

I don't want to get "any" before marriage anyway. I don't want a promiscuous unmarried bimbo.

 

[sweep_shot]

Ibn Saud lived from 1875 to 1953.

He was amongst other things, a man who openly admitted that he committed his first murder at the age of 27. He basically assembled multiple districts into a country, and named it after himself - Saudi Arabia.

Ibn Saud was a religious fanatic and fundamentalist, who had almost 100 children and kept four wives and 22 concubines at a time, claiming that the Koran has no prohibition on concubines or on non-consensual sex with slaves if you treat them well.

He died one year after Queen Elizabeth II rose to the British throne.

In that time since 1953, Saudi Arabia has had 6 Kings, by 5 different mothers.

And Ibn Saud was the father of all those Kings (as well as 92 other children by over 20 other women).

If that doesn't make him promiscuous, I don't know what would.

So, those were mostly concubines.

In those days, concubines were common. So, I can understand where he was coming from.

I guess you can call him promiscuous but he didn't break any Islamic ruling (4 wives and slaves). Perfectly legal. We of course no longer have concubines.

It is definitely better than an unmarried man or unmarried woman sleeping around.

 

[sweep_shot]

First of all, this topic is irrelevant in modern times as there is no more slavery. It is like discussing Windows 98.

Secondly, slavery was common worldwide in the past. Even United States had slavery 200 years ago.

If you go to that link, it has the explanations.

 

[Robert]

First of all, this topic is irrelevant in modern times as there is no more slavery. It is like discussing Windows 98.

Secondly, slavery was common worldwide in the past. Even United States had slavery 200 years ago.

If you go to that link, it has the explanations.

There is slavery on a small scale, particularly sex slavery. All European governments have Modern Slavery legislation to prevent this. Companies have to check their supply chains to ensure that suppliers do not keep modern slaves.

 

[sweep_shot]

There is slavery on a small scale, particularly sex slavery. All European governments have Modern Slavery legislation to prevent this. Companies have to check their supply chains to ensure that suppliers do not keep modern slaves.

We are not discussing sex slaves here.

Regular slavery. That no longer exists.

This thread now has 700+ posts. Remarkable.

 

[Robert]

We are not discussing sex slaves here.

Regular slavery. That no longer exists.

We have moved to discuss slavery. Sex slavery is a subset of slavery. There are no more slave plantations, yet people are not coerced into labour - sometimes including sexual labour - without pay or rights or liberty to leave.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I see lots of posters piling in about Jews and Saudis in this thread, some mentioning the "Koran" etc, which is fine, but it does seem that posters only want to discuss certain aspects of patriarchy which relate to a certain religion.

As I said earlier, in the subcontinent patriarchy is not limited by religion, perhaps we should widen the discussion beyond posters obvious prejudices.

 

[sweep_shot]

There are no more slave plantations, yet people are coerced into labour - sometimes including sexual labour - without pay or rights or liberty to leave.

How are these still legal? Why are they not shutting these down?

 

[sweep_shot]

I see lots of posters piling in about Jews and Saudis in this thread, some mentioning the "Koran" etc, which is fine, but it does seem that posters only want to discuss certain aspects of patriarchy which relate to a certain religion.

As I said earlier, in the subcontinent patriarchy is not limited by religion, perhaps we should widen the discussion beyond posters obvious prejudices.

Right. They are focusing on Islam for some reason.

I didn't make this thread with a religious angle. This is a general thread that is about patriarchy.

Patriarchy exists in many non-Muslim countries too. I think it is fair to say most people in the world prefer patriarchy.

 

[SalimBhai]

Right. They are focusing on Islam for some reason.

I didn't make this thread with a religious angle. This is a general thread that is about patriarchy.

Patriarchy exists in many non-Muslim countries too. I think it is fair to say most people in the world prefer patriarchy.

Its fair to say men in these countries prefer patriarchy

 

[sweep_shot]

Its fair to say men in these countries prefer patriarchy

No. That's what you think. I doubt those countries made you their spokesperson.

 

[SalimBhai]

No. That's what you think. I doubt those countries made you their spokesperson.

Nobody wants to live like a second class citizen. Its basic human nature. Let me give you an example.. Saudi , Iran, Afghanistan have clothing restrictions on women. How they can dress. This is put on them by the patriarchy system. As soon as the come to the west how many you see in chowder, niqab or bhurka. Almost none. I have been to Iran ( great country to visit by the way) when you fly back out and the pilot announces that we have left the Iranian airspace , the first thing the women do is that that chowder off.

 

[sweep_shot]

Nobody wants to live like a second class citizen. Its basic human nature. Let me give you an example.. Saudi , Iran, Afghanistan have clothing restrictions on women. How they can dress. This is put on them by the patriarchy system. As soon as the come to the west how many you see in chowder, niqab or bhurka. Almost none. I have been to Iran ( great country to visit by the way) when you fly back out and the pilot announces that we have left the Iranian airspace , the first thing the women do is that that chowder off.

Women are not second class citizens in a benevolent patriarchy. That's what radical liberals do not understand.

Men and women should get their due rights. They have their roles to play and they compliment one another. There is no first class or second class.

 

[sweep_shot]

... first thing the women do is that that chowder off.

So, you are going to generalize a country just because a few women take off chowder/burqa/niqab. I know many women who continue to wear hijab/burqa after leaving their countries.

Your narrative is flawed and agenda-based.

 

[sweep_shot]

[MENTION=156573]SalimBhai[/MENTION] is making it sound like taking off hijab/burqa/chowder is a good thing. LOL.

This is not a sign of progress. Clothes separate us humans from other wild animals.

 

[SalimBhai]

So, you are going to generalize a country just because a few women take off chowder/burqa/niqab. I know many women who continue to wear hijab/burqa after leaving their countries.

Your narrative is flawed and agenda-based.

No its not few. Its almost all. Nobody wears a shower once they leave Iran, Nobody wears that blue bhurka once they leave Afghanistan and same goes for Saudi. Almost nobody in USA/CANADA wears a niqab, chowder, bhurka. Maybe 1 or 2 people I see in a year. My point is back in their country they are forced to wear it by benevolent patriarchy. When you live under the benevolent patriarchy you don't have much of a choice. ALSo this is not limited to muslims countries only. India is terrible when it comes to this also and many more.

 

[sweep_shot]

No its not few. Its almost all.

No. It's not "almost all". You are definitely inaccurate.

 

[sweep_shot]

Most countries do not subscribe to radical liberalism, radical feminism, and other leftist movements. It is why populist leaders are winning in many countries.

Modern day liberalism has become unappealing, illogical, and even harmful.

Benevolent patriarchy is essential to neutralize radical liberalism.

 

[SalimBhai]

Keep drinking the kool aid

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Right. They are focusing on Islam for some reason.

I didn't make this thread with a religious angle. This is a general thread that is about patriarchy.

Patriarchy exists in many non-Muslim countries too. I think it is fair to say most people in the world prefer patriarchy.

Yes the "new" poster you are currently debating with sporting the handlebar moustache is treading the same old ground that most do on PP, patriarchy just gives them another way in. Enjoy your keyboard wars with these dementors, there is obviously much hyperventilating needed to clear the airways.

 

[Robert]

Benevolent patriarchy is essential to neutralize radical liberalism.

Or in other words, oppression is necessary to neutralise freedom.

Or putting it more simply “I’m scared of female sexuality, so need a system which constrains it in order to feel safe from it.”

Embrace it. Enjoy it. You’ll get your heart broken a few times, but over time you’ll learn what women want and how they think.

 

[Robert]

Yes the "new" poster you are currently debating with sporting the handlebar moustache is treading the same old ground that most do on PP, patriarchy just gives them another way in. Enjoy your keyboard wars with these dementors, there is obviously much hyperventilating needed to clear the airways.

Says the Mysteron zombie

 

[sweep_shot]

Or in other words, oppression is necessary to neutralise freedom.

Or putting it more simply “I’m scared of female sexuality, so need a system which constrains it in order to feel safe from it.”

Embrace it. Enjoy it. You’ll get your heart broken a few times, but over time you’ll learn what women want and how they think.

Nope. There is no oppression. Just checks and balances.

 

[Robert]

How are these still legal? Why are they not shutting these down?

They are not legal, due to the legislation I mentioned. Run by criminal gangs.

 

[Technics 1210]

Where's Itachi these days? This thread is right up his or her street.

 

[Technics 1210]

Liberalism on its own is bad enough, but combined with Atheism and it is the kiss of death.

 

[sweep_shot]

Or in other words, oppression is necessary to neutralise freedom.

Or putting it more simply “I’m scared of female sexuality, so need a system which constrains it in order to feel safe from it.”

Modern liberalism does not represent freedom. If that was the case, there would be no cancel culture.

If a woman can study, work, vote, drive, and go outside, there is no oppression.

 

[Robert]

Nope. There is no oppression. Just checks and balances.

In favour of the men. The clue is in the word patriarchy.

 

[James]

Can we all stop commenting on moderation and hypothetical bans please. Stick to the discussion

 

[sweep_shot]

In favour of the men. The clue is in the word patriarchy.

Nope.

If a father or a big brother guides a daughter/sister, that's not oppression.

Oppression can happen sometimes but that's not the fault of patriarchy.

 

[anikrc1]

Heard a story about patriarchy. A man was boasting to his friends that he takes all the important decisions in the household. So his friend asked how do you manage to make your wife comply. The man smiled and said that the trick is making the wife think that she is also a part of the decision making. So what I do is follow her decision in small, non - important cases, while i decide on all the important issues. So I decide who will in a long term war between India and Pakistan, whether China will overtake USA as the world leader, and all such important issues, while she makes the small decisions like, which boarding school should we send our child to, whether to use the extra money to buy a new car or getting a foreign trip, whether to invest in share market , which colour should we paint our house with and the likes .