Why is there a difference in perception between Pakistan & India in the world?

[Lonewarrior]

Saba Qamar a popular Pakistani actress pretty much summed what it is to be a Pakistani to the world with the following quotes below straight from her..


In a 49 seconds video that has gone viral on social media, Saba is heard saying, “We boast about Pakistan. We say Pakistan is this and that. But when you go out of the country and the way we are checked, I can’t tell you. I feel so humiliated the way I am frisked. I remember I want for a shoot in Tbilisi (Capital of Georgia) and my entire Indian crew was allowed to go. But I was stopped because of my Pakistani passport. I was investigated and they took my interview and then they let me go.”
Adding to it the actor said, “That day I realised this is what our position is and this is where we stand.”

the question is whos Saba Qamar ?
and may i remind you the numerous incidents of shahrukh khan at US airport ?

 

[Snak3eye5]

How did you catch him? What was he saying? normally Pakistanis can pass off as Indians as long as they don't mention anything specific about India.

Don’t remember lol. This was years ago. It was something very trivial from what I remember which gave him away. And again he could be afghani or something else for all I know. Just an assumption but I only remembered this incident because of the conversations around this post. I remember coming out of the store and both me and my wife had a smile and wondered why he lied about being Indian. But nevertheless I would assume that most Pakistanis or Afghanis would rather say they are from India when asked the question by a westerner on where they are from or I would assume that would be a very awkward conversation, probably even the end of a conversation....

 

[cricketjoshila]

Finally! Hallelujah! The penny has dropped!

Now present the evidence backing this point with respect to London.

You present the evidence regarding your claims that Indian restaurants sell only veg food. Thats all i am interested in.

Regarding claims of Pakistani restaurants using Indian names well the concerned posters will defend their argument.

Years have passed and you have been caught lying so many times. Changing names doesnt change the rules of the game.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You present the evidence regarding your claims that Indian restaurants sell only veg food. Thats all i am interested in.

Regarding claims of Pakistani restaurants using Indian names well the concerned posters will defend their argument.

Years have passed and you have been caught lying so many times. Changing names doesnt change the rules of the game.

So you have no evidence refuting the point made in this thread; you just fancied being deliberately obtrusive.

For the record I cannot present evidence for a negative claim.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So you have no evidence refuting the point made in this thread; you just fancied being deliberately obtrusive.

For the record I cannot present evidence for a negative claim.

I didnot make a claim on this thread i do not need to present any evidence.

You again made a false claim like you have been doing on this forum for years and then tried to shift the goal posts.

 

[humzy]

Don’t remember lol. This was years ago. It was something very trivial from what I remember which gave him away. And again he could be afghani or something else for all I know. Just an assumption but I only remembered this incident because of the conversations around this post. I remember coming out of the store and both me and my wife had a smile and wondered why he lied about being Indian. But nevertheless I would assume that most Pakistanis or Afghanis would rather say they are from India when asked the question by a westerner on where they are from or I would assume that would be a very awkward conversation, probably even the end of a conversation....

Wow, this is so far from the truth i had to laugh a little bit. Pakistanis are immensely proud their heritage, same as Afghans.

I have yet to meet a Pakistani who would ever call himself an Indian. In fact most Pakistanis i meet look down on Indians in one way or another.

I mean, Pakistanis even go a step further and relate themselves to Arab or Turkic conquerers in the hopes to further distance themselves from India, that alone should tell you something.

The reality is that Indians integrate and perform far better then Pakistanis. But even then, on the totem pole, Indians are probably at the bottom in terms of getting respect, even below Africans people.

Indian culture is just not as appealing or their people just not as mesmerising as say people of Southern European or Latin ethnicity.

For example name me a hollywood movie about Indians that isn't a completely out to make fun of its culture and people (other then slum dog)? Asians, Africans, and Latins on the other hand are represented in a much more positive light.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I didnot make a claim on this thread i do not need to present any evidence.

You again made a false claim like you have been doing on this forum for years and then tried to shift the goal posts.

I never said you made the claim, but you defended it and claimed I was wrong. All down to poor interpretation of English.

Look I don't have time for this, if you have anything valuable or substantive to contribute then please do. Otherwise stop wasting my time.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I never said you made the claim, but you defended it and claimed I was wrong. All down to poor interpretation of English.

Look I don't have time for this, if you have anything valuable or substantive to contribute then please do. Otherwise stop wasting my time.

Yes you were wrong when you claimed Authentic Indian Restaurants only serve veg food and i showed you your claims were false as usual.

My english is good enough to prove your claims false and that has been the case since our first argument here few years ago.

Look, do not lie about things or make false claims so that i dont have to keep proving you wrong.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yes you were wrong when you claimed Authentic Indian Restaurants only serve veg food and i showed you your claims were false as usual.

My english is good enough to prove your claims false and that has been the case since our first argument here few years ago.

Look, do not lie about things or make false claims so that i dont have to keep proving you wrong.

Your English is poor since you do not understand what *typically* means.

Have fun!

 

[R3verse Swing]

Another interesting point I noticed. I work in an industry where part of the company I work for and most of my customers have outsourced work to other countries, mainly India (to save cost).

However in the past 2 years the company I work for and customers are recalling services that were outsourced based in India. The two main reasons - quality of work, and lack of professionalism.

It has come to the point that if we are responding to RFPs or pricing, our end customers specifically caveat the request by saying they do not want anything to do with India. This includes banks and global financial services. It's remarkable given India is a growing economy but customers are realising there is more to the underlying capabilities than growth in India. This all boils down to perception of India. Something which is not covered in mainstream media as it should since business have lost money and respect in dealing with Indian companies.

 

[Syed1]

Another interesting point I noticed. I work in an industry where part of the company I work for and most of my customers have outsourced work to other countries, mainly India (to save cost).

However in the past 2 years the company I work for and customers are recalling services that were outsourced based in India. The two main reasons - quality of work, and lack of professionalism.

It has come to the point that if we are responding to RFPs or pricing, our end customers specifically caveat the request by saying they do not want anything to do with India. This includes banks and global financial services. It's remarkable given India is a growing economy but customers are realising there is more to the underlying capabilities than growth in India. This all boils down to perception of India. Something which is not covered in mainstream media as it should since business have lost money and respect in dealing with Indian companies.

Believe me, the company I work for did the exact same. I work in engineering consulting and it is handy to have cheap labour on hand to do 3d modelling, produce drawings at fraction of the cost and get the job done with plenty of margin. For that regard my organization (the second largest consulting firm in the world - soon to be largest) established a design center in Hyderabad, India. It was decided to send work from all across the world to India to do the design work while being overseen by the engineers in the location where the project is being executed.


The experiment lasted for 5-7 years and eventually the company decided to scale down operations in India for the very reason you mentioned and instead shifted design center to Poland. There is a city in Poland called Krakow, that has 20 engineering universities producing high quality, hardworking engineers. The office in India now just caters to projects originating from India and Middle East.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Believe me, the company I work for did the exact same. I work in engineering consulting and it is handy to have cheap labour on hand to do 3d modelling, produce drawings at fraction of the cost and get the job done with plenty of margin. For that regard my organization (the second largest consulting firm in the world - soon to be largest) established a design center in Hyderabad, India. It was decided to send work from all across the world to India to do the design work while being overseen by the engineers in the location where the project is being executed.


The experiment lasted for 5-7 years and eventually the company decided to scale down operations in India for the very reason you mentioned and instead shifted design center to Poland. There is a city in Poland called Krakow, that has 20 engineering universities producing high quality, hardworking engineers. The office in India now just caters to projects originating from India and Middle East.

Absolutely agree.

To add to this point, when I ask the dozen or so Indian economic migrants who work in the same company as I do in London, why they choose to work abroad when their economy is allegedly booming, they all respond with the same answer - things are not as good as the media portrays it to be, the situation is far worse than it sounds.

So in essence the media plays a big role in setting a perception and it's no big secret every media outlet follows an agenda.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Your English is poor since you do not understand what *typically* means.

Have fun!

You lie and try to shift goal posts. You didnot use the word typically for Indian restaurants.

How many times have you made false claims on this forum and then run away?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wow, this is so far from the truth i had to laugh a little bit. Pakistanis are immensely proud their heritage, same as Afghans.

I have yet to meet a Pakistani who would ever call himself an Indian. In fact most Pakistanis i meet look down on Indians in one way or another.

I mean, Pakistanis even go a step further and relate themselves to Arab or Turkic conquerers in the hopes to further distance themselves from India, that alone should tell you something.

The reality is that Indians integrate and perform far better then Pakistanis. But even then, on the totem pole, Indians are probably at the bottom in terms of getting respect, even below Africans people.

Indian culture is just not as appealing or their people just not as mesmerising as say people of Southern European or Latin ethnicity.

For example name me a hollywood movie about Indians that isn't a completely out to make fun of its culture and people (other then slum dog)? Asians, Africans, and Latins on the other hand are represented in a much more positive light.

Agreed. Indians are near to the bottom of the pile when it comes to respect from western communities anyway, I won't claim to speak for any other part of the world. I won't bother retyping what I wrote before, even though it was obviously the truth, but some sensitive soul must have objected hence it has been removed. I don't know which world the OP is living in, but I could hazard a good guess, although by no means am I suggesting anything like a false flag.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Believe me, the company I work for did the exact same. I work in engineering consulting and it is handy to have cheap labour on hand to do 3d modelling, produce drawings at fraction of the cost and get the job done with plenty of margin. For that regard my organization (the second largest consulting firm in the world - soon to be largest) established a design center in Hyderabad, India. It was decided to send work from all across the world to India to do the design work while being overseen by the engineers in the location where the project is being executed.


The experiment lasted for 5-7 years and eventually the company decided to scale down operations in India for the very reason you mentioned and instead shifted design center to Poland. There is a city in Poland called Krakow, that has 20 engineering universities producing high quality, hardworking engineers. The office in India now just caters to projects originating from India and Middle East.

Poland Krakow isnt Pakistan. This a thread about perception of India vis a vis perception of Pakistan. If you alleged claim said jobs were shifted to Karachi it would make sense.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Agreed. Indians are near to the bottom of the pile when it comes to respect from western communities anyway, I won't claim to speak for any other part of the world. I won't bother retyping what I wrote before, even though it was obviously the truth, but some sensitive soul must have objected hence it has been removed. I don't know which world the OP is living in, but I could hazard a good guess, although by no means am I suggesting anything like a false flag.

Pakistani claiming to speak for what western community thinks about India. Thats the biggest joke.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Poland Krakow isnt Pakistan. This a thread about perception of India vis a vis perception of Pakistan. If you alleged claim said jobs were shifted to Karachi it would make sense.

Why are you always so bothered about the rest of the world's perception of India? It is what it is, maybe some day in the future it will change. Right now Slumdog Millionaire is a start.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Another interesting point I noticed. I work in an industry where part of the company I work for and most of my customers have outsourced work to other countries, mainly India (to save cost).

However in the past 2 years the company I work for and customers are recalling services that were outsourced based in India. The two main reasons - quality of work, and lack of professionalism.

It has come to the point that if we are responding to RFPs or pricing, our end customers specifically caveat the request by saying they do not want anything to do with India. This includes banks and global financial services. It's remarkable given India is a growing economy but customers are realising there is more to the underlying capabilities than growth in India. This all boils down to perception of India. Something which is not covered in mainstream media as it should since business have lost money and respect in dealing with Indian companies.

Business and respect of Indian companies do not depend on views of Pakistanis or Pakistani origin people.

2 months back TCS bagged the largest outsourcing deal in its history, worth 2.25bn usd.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/wap.bu...2-25-billion-tcs-contract-117122200406_1.html

Sadly no one seems to care what people of a particular country or originating from a certain country think. No one gives damn. If only making posts and false claims on PP could change the reality. Alas it doesnot.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why are you always so bothered about the rest of the world's perception of India? It is what it is, maybe some day in the future it will change. Right now Slumdog Millionaire is a start.

You seem to be bothered more. Trying to tell where Indians belong in the western social hierarchy. Bother about the perception of your own country of origin. Whats the start there? Osama's Sanctuary? Or Safehouse OBL?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistani claiming to speak for what western community thinks about India. Thats the biggest joke.

Why don't you ask a western based Indian to refute it then? I doubt you will get any from the UK who will be able to do it, but an Indian from any western country will do, as long as they are not immigrants.

 

[troodon]

The perception of Indians in US is - IT/Software/Doctors/Motel/ Gas station owners.

We fly under the radar and never do anything that puts us on National TV.

 

[Pakistanian]

The perception of Indians in US is - IT/Software/Doctors/Motel/ Gas station owners.

We fly under the radar and never do anything that puts us on National TV.

These are same stereotypes every south asian gets incl Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, it isn't unique to Indians

 

[Pakistanian]

Btw [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] Indians have made on national TV here for the wrong reasons many times! I don't want to post examples lol.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This thread is full of jealousy at the global stature of indians who are world famous everywhere for being model citizens, courteous, honest, hardworking and hygienic. Something our neighbours can only dream of becoming one day.

 

[Saeed]

They are probably impressed by PM Modi’s hugs and swachh bharat campaign. In comparison Pakistan has Nawaz Sharif and sasti roti campaign. Even my white friends know who Modi is. I don’t like the comparison with India though, Pakistan should aim high.

 

[Traveller55]

They are probably impressed by PM Modi’s hugs and swachh bharat campaign. In comparison Pakistan has Nawaz Sharif and sasti roti campaign. Even my white friends know who Modi is. I don’t like the comparison with India though, Pakistan should aim high.

Indeed, both Pakistan and India should aim high, but baby-steps first. First become like India, who are ahead on the scale than Pakistan in every humane & developmental benchmark there is, then aim higher.

Or maybe if the religion thing gets in the way, atleast aim to be like Bangladesh- who except for a small lag in per capita income, is also ahead of Pakistan in most metrics.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They are probably impressed by PM Modi’s hugs and swachh bharat campaign. In comparison Pakistan has Nawaz Sharif and sasti roti campaign. Even my white friends know who Modi is. I don’t like the comparison with India though, Pakistan should aim high.

I'm impressed your white friends know who Modi is, I think the vast majority of Brits would have no idea who is the current PM of India ( or Pakistan for that matter). I don't think there is any Indian who is well known in the UK. Maybe Sachin Tendulkar, but most Brits don't really follow cricket so it will be a very small minority. Amir Khan and Zayn Malik are the two best known people with heritage from the sub-continent.

 

[Saeed]

I'm impressed your white friends know who Modi is, I think the vast majority of Brits would have no idea who is the current PM of India ( or Pakistan for that matter). I don't think there is any Indian who is well known in the UK. Maybe Sachin Tendulkar, but most Brits don't really follow cricket so it will be a very small minority. Amir Khan and Zayn Malik are the two best known people with heritage from the sub-continent.

They didn’t but now they know after I told them who he is when we were discussing Bollywood. Soon they will know who Vincent Katiyar is when we discuss Bollywood again. I think they will stop talking about Bollywood with me soon.

 

[Yossarian]

This thread is full of jealousy at the global stature of indians who are world famous everywhere for being model citizens, courteous, honest, hardworking and hygienic. Something our neighbours can only dream of becoming one day.

As I've said earlier a couple of times, unless a Pakistani or Indian whipped out their passports, or had "Pakistani" or "Indian" tattooed on their foreheads, 99% of Westerners (in fact anybody outside the sub-continent) wouldn't be able to tell which is which unless someone told them.

Could your average desi living in India or Pakistan tell the difference between a Dane, a Norwegian, A Swede, a German or Dutchman unless they were told of the individual's nationality in some way or another? . Well, the same applies to non-desis distinguishing between Indians or Pakistanis unless it was pointed out to them in some way or other.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Well some heated opinions here, but nobody seems to have answered the actual question. I think there's a need to promote Pakistan much better to show off our vibrant Muslim culture that is distinct from India. Fact is that despite the claims the green passport has massively hindered me in travelling, and I've had some pretty bad comments passed when people knew I was from Pakistan. From French people asking why Pakistanis are so involved in street crime in Paris (***) to pretty clear latent hostility in North America, it does hurt.

BUt India is worse in everyway: crime, rape, poverty, toilets, intolerance, hindu extremists. We are just suffering because of the US, while supporting the moral side of the Kashmir argument. WE need to make sure that the true face of India as an extremist fascist power is exposed to the world.

For people asking how they found out I'm Pakistani, most people ask at some point considering I have a desi accent. And I've even seen this be the case when it came to hiring, when I know some decisions fell against me because of nationality. Irony is that the guy who hired me was actually an Indian from Chennai; gotta admit that south Indians are definitely smart, and seem way more chill towards Pakistanis.

 

[troodon]

Btw [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] Indians have made on national TV here for the wrong reasons many times! I don't want to post examples lol.

I know which examples you are talking about. Even some Pakistanis also got. I watched that show.

But nothing captures the imagination of people these days like Terrorism. There are enough examples where Pakistanis got caught doing bad stuff in US. Not to forget Bin Laden staying in Pak. That did not help the matters anyway.

 

[Pakistanian]

I know which examples you are talking about. Even some Pakistanis also got. I watched that show.

But nothing captures the imagination of people these days like Terrorism. There are enough examples where Pakistanis got caught doing bad stuff in US. Not to forget Bin Laden staying in Pak. That did not help the matters anyway.

Lol I've watched every season of TCAP and not a single Pakistani was caught, but there were like 20-30 Indians in the 300 men arrested and convicted on that show. That's 10%! Disproportionate to their share in the population. What's worse is that all of these men were "educated professionals", the best of India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'm impressed your white friends know who Modi is, I think the vast majority of Brits would have no idea who is the current PM of India ( or Pakistan for that matter). I don't think there is any Indian who is well known in the UK. Maybe Sachin Tendulkar, but most Brits don't really follow cricket so it will be a very small minority. Amir Khan and Zayn Malik are the two best known people with heritage from the sub-continent.

Academy Award winner Ben kingsley

Freddy Mercury the lead singer of Queens

The most successful male UK urban artist in US chart history is an Indian Jay Sean.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8269400.stm

Then there is Dev Patel the actor.

Some of the richest men in UK and the richest man is of Indian origin.

Indian company TATA alone employees of 1000s of Brits.

This was the headlines in UK when Ratan Tata retired,

Ratan Tata, the UK's largest private sector employer, steps down

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ivate-sector-employer-steps-down-8433061.html

How many Brits have Pakistani companies employed?

But but but no one knows Indians, they all know only Pakistan origin Zayn Malik and Amir Khan.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Well some heated opinions here, but nobody seems to have answered the actual question. I think there's a need to promote Pakistan much better to show off our vibrant Muslim culture that is distinct from India. Fact is that despite the claims the green passport has massively hindered me in travelling, and I've had some pretty bad comments passed when people knew I was from Pakistan. From French people asking why Pakistanis are so involved in street crime in Paris (***) to pretty clear latent hostility in North America, it does hurt.

BUt India is worse in everyway: crime, rape, poverty, toilets, intolerance, hindu extremists. We are just suffering because of the US, while supporting the moral side of the Kashmir argument. WE need to make sure that the true face of India as an extremist fascist power is exposed to the world.

I believe your question has been answered in bulk two-fold. Money and Media.

The West will appease to India’s demand for a slice of the economic pie. This means media moguls, certainly in the West, will parade Pakistan in the most negative fashion possible. This keeps India happy, while in return for economic survival. This arrangement also extends at the political level. Modi banned from the USA and UK based on religious terrorism (irony alert), but he comes into power and Western governments turn into snowflakes.

I have people who ask me about OBL and Pakistan, I simply ask them, where is the evidence? We got to see Saddam Hussain’s body, Gaddafi’s body, but why not OBL’s body? Their response – US government raided the house in Pakistan and US government said so. I then point out US Government’s litany of documented lies, such as Iraq and WMDs. No answer.

The media is a powerful weapon in convincing the sheeple, and Money is the greatest of all evil.

Remember it wasn’t long ago when India was at the forefront of terrorism. Who could forget Air India Flight 182 – the worst act of international terrorism before 9/11 (still remains at #2). Not to mention domestic terrorism in India during 90s, especially the Mumbai bombings of 1993.

Funny how money changes all that.

People have short memories.

 

[Traveller55]

I believe your question has been answered in bulk two-fold. Money and Media.

The West will appease to India’s demand for a slice of the economic pie. This means media moguls, certainly in the West, will parade Pakistan in the most negative fashion possible. This keeps India happy, while in return for economic survival. This arrangement also extends at the political level. Modi banned from the USA and UK based on religious terrorism (irony alert), but he comes into power and Western governments turn into snowflakes.

I have people who ask me about OBL and Pakistan, I simply ask them, where is the evidence? We got to see Saddam Hussain’s body, Gaddafi’s body, but why not OBL’s body? Their response – US government raided the house in Pakistan and US government said so. I then point out US Government’s litany of documented lies, such as Iraq and WMDs. No answer.

The media is a powerful weapon in convincing the sheeple, and Money is the greatest of all evil.

Remember it wasn’t long ago when India was at the forefront of terrorism. Who could forget Air India Flight 182 – the worst act of international terrorism before 9/11 (still remains at #2). Not to mention domestic terrorism in India during 90s, especially the Mumbai bombings of 1993.

Funny how money changes all that.

People have short memories.

Err AI-182 was committed by Canadian citizens, killing mostly Canadian citizens.

And from my experience, India does not compare itself to Pakistan, neither does it see Paksitan anything more than an annoying thorn in the heel. India measures itself against China and is far more sensetive to China than Pakistan. So if the western powers wanted to cozy up to India, they would make pro-India and anti-China statements together or actions of like.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I understand the frustrations of a few Brit Pakistanis here.when data hows that Median net income of Indians is among top 3 and Pakistanis is among bottom two in UK,frustration is obvious.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It's a tragedy when people measure success by the amount of money they have; how materialistic. What makes it worse is that Indians with British and US nationality are denied dual nationality. That's right, the constitution of India does NOT allow dual citizenship. International Indians do not have the same rights as Indians living in India. Such as, they cannot buy land in India. Yet the media, and brave-hearts want us to believe Indians are a success worldwide, when in actual fact, they are not recognised as Indian as per India's constitution thus Indian law.

At least Pakistani's living and born abroad share the same rights as Pakistanis at home. Alas! The media will not report on this!

 

[Slog]

Well some heated opinions here, but nobody seems to have answered the actual question. I think there's a need to promote Pakistan much better to show off our vibrant Muslim culture that is distinct from India. Fact is that despite the claims the green passport has massively hindered me in travelling, and I've had some pretty bad comments passed when people knew I was from Pakistan. From French people asking why Pakistanis are so involved in street crime in Paris (***) to pretty clear latent hostility in North America, it does hurt.

BUt India is worse in everyway: crime, rape, poverty, toilets, intolerance, hindu extremists. We are just suffering because of the US, while supporting the moral side of the Kashmir argument. WE need to make sure that the true face of India as an extremist fascist power is exposed to the world.

For people asking how they found out I'm Pakistani, most people ask at some point considering I have a desi accent. And I've even seen this be the case when it came to hiring, when I know some decisions fell against me because of nationality. Irony is that the guy who hired me was actually an Indian from Chennai; gotta admit that south Indians are definitely smart, and seem way more chill towards Pakistanis.

You really are a poor troll

More use of lazy stereotypes (South Indians are more chill and smart)

Really gotta diversify...

And yes random people care about your accent and then discriminate lmao

 

[Traveller55]

It's a tragedy when people measure success by the amount of money they have; how materialistic.

This is a material universe. Every creature uses materials to differentiate itself from its kind.
So there is no tragedy in following the natural order of things- we are all materialistic creatures.
Trying to curb it with unsubstantiated mumbo-jumbo is a far bigger tragedy IMO.

What makes it worse is that Indians with British and US nationality are denied dual nationality. That's right, the constitution of India does NOT allow dual citizenship. International Indians do not have the same rights as Indians living in India. Such as, they cannot buy land in India. Yet the media, and brave-hearts want us to believe Indians are a success worldwide, when in actual fact, they are not recognised as Indian as per India's constitution thus Indian law.

They are recognized as OCI and they can buy land in India as long as its not agricultural land.

Even my home country (Bangladesh) has a very limited dual citizenship process and pretty much only allows people like me - Bangladeshi origin but citizens of USA/Canada etc. to hold dual citizenship.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Err AI-182 was committed by Canadian citizens, killing mostly Canadian citizens.

This is precisely what I mean. The perpetrators of AI182 were Sikh, but in this case not Indian because they were Canadian citizens. However when the the CEO of Microsoft is of Indian descent but an American citizen, he is Indian.

This simplifies the current media conditioning and manipulation we face in society today.





IN other words, when Indians

 

[Traveller55]

This is precisely what I mean. The perpetrators of AI182 were Sikh, but in this case not Indian because they were Canadian citizens. However when the the CEO of Microsoft is of Indian descent but an American citizen, he is Indian.

This simplifies the current media conditioning and manipulation we face in society today.





IN other words, when Indians

There is a huge difference between people who are born and brought up in India or Pakistan, then migrate to the west and take foreign citizenships, versus people who are ethnically Indian or Pakistani, but born as a foreign citizen.
The AI bombers were born Canadians. Hence, not Indians.

This is a fairly obvious standard held by most communities worldwide. Japanese do not consider you Japanese either, unless you were born Japanese. But just because you took foreign citizenship, doesn't stop them from thinking you as Japanese either.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Some guys are such liars and make such false claims. They get caught, run away and then return with another name and get caught again.

Overseas Indian citizens have the same rights as Indian citizens except that they cannot get a government job or vote and cannot buy fresh AGRICULTURAL LAND. They can buy land in urban areas or any non agricultural land.

Those who fall behind in monetary success try to call it materialistic. When they left their country of origin in the search of that very money.

 

[R3verse Swing]

When the time is right, when the West funnels the riches out of India, again, the media will turn against India and in favour Pakistan.

This doesn't just apply to India/Pakistan, but to every nation the West wishes to seek advantage of. It is a tried and tested method by the media which will continue for an eternity. The sad part is India doesn't realise it is being take for a ride, again - only this time at the expense of Pakistan.

 

[Traveller55]

When the time is right, when the West funnels the riches out of India, again, the media will turn against India and in favour Pakistan.

That time has long-since passed. India was one of the richest places on the planet in history due to its luxuries. The same luxuries - spices, jute, cotton, etc. are no longer luxuries today.

And barring that, India pretty much only has a lot of Iron, Aluminium and the fast-going-out-of-style coal.

So what is there to loot from India anymore ??

The 'riches of India', as its with ALL subcontinent - is down to the intellectual prowess of its people.
This is why India is leaving Pakistan behind and Bangladesh has almost caught up and will leave Pakistan behind in a few years : these two nations cultivate intellectual prowess better than Paksitan does.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Everything is fault of the media and everything is done for money.

 

[TikkiTaka]

You really are a poor troll

More use of lazy stereotypes (South Indians are more chill and smart)

Really gotta diversify...

And yes random people care about your accent and then discriminate lmao

Gee ad hominem attack, that's gotta help instead of answering the question. The accent statement was answering a question of how people would know I was Pakistani, as they used to ask where I was from.

My roomates were from South India so unlike you I actually know the difference

 

[cricketjoshila]

That time has long-since passed. India was one of the richest places on the planet in history due to its luxuries. The same luxuries - spices, jute, cotton, etc. are no longer luxuries today.

And barring that, India pretty much only has a lot of Iron, Aluminium and the fast-going-out-of-style coal.

So what is there to loot from India anymore ??

The 'riches of India', as its with ALL subcontinent - is down to the intellectual prowess of its people.
This is why India is leaving Pakistan behind and Bangladesh has almost caught up and will leave Pakistan behind in a few years : these two nations cultivate intellectual prowess better than Paksitan does.

Isnt BD's per capita income already more than Pakistan?

 

[R3verse Swing]

The 'riches of India', as its with ALL subcontinent - is down to the intellectual prowess of its people.
This is why India is leaving Pakistan behind and Bangladesh has almost caught up and will leave Pakistan behind in a few years : these two nations cultivate intellectual prowess better than Paksitan does.

Intellectual prowess? Is this why Western companies are ditching India, not to mention Indians who choose to migrate abroad while India experiences an intellectual and economic boom? Is this why Modi begged Theresa May to relax the immigration laws with respect to India in return for trade? Rhetorical questions meaning no need to answer them.

 

[Traveller55]

Isnt BD's per capita income already more than Pakistan?

No, we are slightly behind.

 

[Traveller55]

Intellectual prowess? Is this why Western companies are ditching India, not to mention Indians who choose to migrate abroad while India experiences an intellectual and economic boom? Is this why Modi begged Theresa May to relax the immigration laws with respect to India in return for trade? Rhetorical questions meaning no need to answer them.

Last i checked, investment by westerners in India and Bangladesh is going up, not down.
Ofcourse Indians with high ambition and educational excellence will want to leave India for the west- so does Bangladeshis, pakistanis- every third world-er for that matter.

But what matters, is that India is the intellectual powerhouse of South Asia and we Bengalis are a very very distant second, in terms of producing quality educated people.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No, we are slightly behind.

https://www.economist.com/news/asia...t-bangladeshs-gdp-person-now-higher-pakistans

In Per capita terms you are ahead.

 

[Slog]

Gee ad hominem attack, that's gotta help instead of answering the question. The accent statement was answering a question of how people would know I was Pakistani, as they used to ask where I was from.

My roomates were from South India so unlike you I actually know the difference

Well if among a crowd of Apus you're the joke then the problems with you mate

 

[R3verse Swing]

That time has long-since passed. India was one of the richest places on the planet in history due to its luxuries. The same luxuries - spices, jute, cotton, etc. are no longer luxuries today.

These were luxuries 300 or so years ago which is why the British ruled the subcontinent and rinsed it.

And barring that, India pretty much only has a lot of Iron, Aluminium and the fast-going-out-of-style coal.

I got news for you, Iron is the most abundant metal on Earth, and as you have said fast and going out of style Coal is just that, out of style - these are not riches.

In the world of today, the riches come from market share of an economy, not the most abundant metal or a has-been fossil fuel.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Intellectual prowess? Is this why Western companies are ditching India, not to mention Indians who choose to migrate abroad while India experiences an intellectual and economic boom? Is this why Modi begged Theresa May to relax the immigration laws with respect to India in return for trade? Rhetorical questions meaning no need to answer them.

Theresa May came to India begging for a trade deal, Modi didnot go to UK asking for immigration relaxation. UK wants a free trade deal with the 5th largest economy in the world, it was told what was on the table.

Western companies ditching India.

LOL. Investment by Western countries in India is rising by the day. May be you mistook India for its western neighbour.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Academy Award winner Ben kingsley

Freddy Mercury the lead singer of Queens

The most successful male UK urban artist in US chart history is an Indian Jay Sean.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8269400.stm

Then there is Dev Patel the actor.

Some of the richest men in UK and the richest man is of Indian origin.

Indian company TATA alone employees of 1000s of Brits.

This was the headlines in UK when Ratan Tata retired,

Ratan Tata, the UK's largest private sector employer, steps down

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ivate-sector-employer-steps-down-8433061.html

How many Brits have Pakistani companies employed?

But but but no one knows Indians, they all know only Pakistan origin Zayn Malik and Amir Khan.

Freddie Mercury and Ben Kingsley are white and regarded by most Brits as such, very few people connect them to India. People over here don't google obsessively over the DNA of celebrities, they take them at face value.

Dev Patel had some limited success, I'll give you that one, although he's really not that well known outside of the Indian community as he's only played Pakistani/Indian roles which are usually minor or niche which soon lose interest for the majority.

The rest of the business folk might have done well somewhere down the line, but they aren't well known or discussed much in Britain. The tycoons people look up to here are Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and so on. Some of these guys have had films made about them or have become celebrities with their own tv shows. No one knows any of those Indian guys you mentioned. There are definitely some rich Indians ( and Pakistanis for that matter) but people don't want to know about them particularly.

Actually correction on that, there is James Caan who became a famous panellist on Dragon's Den the tv programme, he's very well known because of his appearances as a business expert. He's a Pakistani though.

 

[Traveller55]

https://www.economist.com/news/asia...t-bangladeshs-gdp-person-now-higher-pakistans

In Per capita terms you are ahead.

YAY!!!!

I was going by CIA world factbook/world bank numbers from Wiki.

But if its true, well, it too us 46 years to reclaim our natural place as economically richer than Pakistan.

 

[TikkiTaka]

Well if among a crowd of Apus you're the joke then the problems with you mate

Well you don't really have a choice when you apply for university housing do you? Just get put in with other applicants in a 4-bedroom campus apartment.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Last i checked, investment by westerners in India and Bangladesh is going up, not down.
Ofcourse Indians with high ambition and educational excellence will want to leave India for the west- so does Bangladeshis, pakistanis- every third world-er for that matter.

But what matters, is that India is the intellectual powerhouse of South Asia and we Bengalis are a very very distant second, in terms of producing quality educated people.

There's a difference. Pakistanis do not claim to be the fastest growing economy, or an upcoming superpower, or a booming intellectual demographic. Indians do.

 

[Traveller55]

These were luxuries 300 or so years ago which is why the British ruled the subcontinent and rinsed it.

Sure. But what luxuries exist in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh today for the westerners to 'rinse' it ?!

I got news for you, Iron is the most abundant metal on Earth, and as you have said fast and going out of style Coal is just that, out of style - these are not riches.

In the world of today, the riches come from market share of an economy, not the most abundant metal or a has-been fossil fuel.

Yes. Market share of an economy that is not a resource-exporter, is based on the intellectual capacity of its population, as then the major FOREX earner is industrial production and/or services.

 

[Traveller55]

There's a difference. Pakistanis do not claim to be the fastest growing economy, or an upcoming superpower, or a booming intellectual demographic. Indians do.

Because they are.
They are the fastest growing economy that has nominal value of 1 trillion dollars or more.
Largest number of people under the age of 35, which means the largest future workforce in the world.

Sure, they are boistrous about it, but facts are facts and they are leaving both Pakistan and Bangladesh in the dust.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Freddie Mercury and Ben Kingsley are white and regarded by most Brits as such, very few people connect them to India. People over here don't google obsessively over the DNA of celebrities, they take them at face value.

Dev Patel had some limited success, I'll give you that one, although he's really not that well known outside of the Indian community as he's only played Pakistani/Indian roles which are usually minor or niche which soon lose interest for the majority.

The rest of the business folk might have done well somewhere down the line, but they aren't well known or discussed much in Britain. The tycoons people look up to here are Richard Branson, Sir Alan Sugar, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and so on. Some of these guys have had films made about them or have become celebrities with their own tv shows. No one knows any of those Indian guys you mentioned. There are definitely some rich Indians ( and Pakistanis for that matter) but people don't want to know about them particularly.

Actually correction on that, there is James Caan who became a famous panellist on Dragon's Den the tv programme, he's very well known because of his appearances as a business expert. He's a Pakistani though.

Ben Kingsley and Freddie Mercury are of Indian origin. You dont decide the ethnicity of people, their brth does.

Nobody knows TATA who employs 1000s of Brits. No one knows the richest person in UK. Yet UK media headlines the retirement of Ratan Tata.

I know why you are so frustrated. The reason is quite obvious as i mentioned in one of the posts above.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Because they are.
They are the fastest growing economy that has nominal value of 1 trillion dollars or more.
Largest number of people under the age of 35, which means the largest future workforce in the world.

Sure, they are boistrous about it, but facts are facts and they are leaving both Pakistan and Bangladesh in the dust.

No India is not. It's all relative.

GDP per Capita of India is around $1800.
GDP per Capita of Bangladesh is around $1500

GDP of India is around 2.2 TRILLION USD
GDP of Bangladesh is 220 BILLION USD

According to the figures above, India's economy is almost 10 times that of Bangladesh, 1000%, but India's GDP per capita compared to Bangladesh is about 20% more.

The economy is not booming in India.

 

[Slog]

Well you don't really have a choice when you apply for university housing do you? Just get put in with other applicants in a 4-bedroom campus apartment.

So a lot of this apparent latent hostility you're facing is in college lol... In the US that's hard to believe

It's a case of bullying then. Some people just naturally attract more bullies to poke fun at them. Knew two South Indians in college in the US who had hell for two years in university housing from the jocks on my floor. They Would get called Apu, have accents mocked and people would just start the head bob whenever they spoke. Basically were seen as Raj. It wasn't just because they were South Indians per se but that they naturally attracted more bullies. I personally didn't face same issues at all but im sure other Pakistanis may have.

So has little to do with where you are from and more to do with your personality and characteristics. I'm guessing you attract same type since I have travelled enough in the west to know this isn't common. People I know and are friends with won't engage in this anyway and the skinheads who would engage in taunting and discrimination would struggle to tell the difference between a Mexican and South Asian let tell apart a Pakistani from an Indian.

I'd suggest you harden up and not be a punching bag for bullies. Background isn't the problem. Personality is

Good luck man!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because they are.
They are the fastest growing economy that has nominal value of 1 trillion dollars or more.
Largest number of people under the age of 35, which means the largest future workforce in the world.

Sure, they are boistrous about it, but facts are facts and they are leaving both Pakistan and Bangladesh in the dust.

Maybe they are, but the truth remains, the perception among most around the world is still of India as third world country not much different to Pakistan in living standards. Pakistan will be perceived as more dangerous, India probably a bit more messy. Don't really want to say much about the perception of Bangladesh in the views of the rest of the world but I doubt they would bother looking up the same stats and data that you do to talk Bangladesh up.

 

[TikkiTaka]

No India is not. It's all relative.

GDP per Capita of India is around $1800.
GDP per Capita of Bangladesh is around $1500

GDP of India is around 2.2 TRILLION USD
GDP of Bangladesh is 220 BILLION USD

According to the figures above, India's economy is almost 10 times that of Bangladesh, 1000%, but India's GDP per capita compared to Bangladesh is about 20% more.

The economy is not booming in India.

Not to forget that until 2005 odd Pakistan had a much higher GDP PPP than India. If not for the stupid americans and their war, we would be in a different place now.

 

[Traveller55]

No India is not. It's all relative.

GDP per Capita of India is around $1800.
GDP per Capita of Bangladesh is around $1500

GDP of India is around 2.2 TRILLION USD
GDP of Bangladesh is 220 BILLION USD

According to the figures above, India's economy is almost 10 times that of Bangladesh, 1000%, but India's GDP per capita compared to Bangladesh is about 20% more.

The economy is not booming in India.

Again, they are the fastest growing economy that has a nominal value of 1 trillion dollars or more.
So their boast of being the fastest growing major economy in the world, is true.

India's GDP per capita was behind Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1991. 26 years later, they have left both of us behind, with the gap getting bigger, not smaller.

India's economy is 10 times bigger than Bangladesh, yet their population is 8 times bigger than ours. Meaning, the average Indian is better off than the average Bangladeshi.

 

[Traveller55]

Not to forget that until 2005 odd Pakistan had a much higher GDP PPP than India. If not for the stupid americans and their war, we would be in a different place now.

India overtook Pakistan in 1999 actually.
It overtook bangladesh in 1998.

Pakistan's failure,is Pakistan's doing. Rampant terrorism run amok will wreck business confidence.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not to forget that until 2005 odd Pakistan had a much higher GDP PPP than India. If not for the stupid americans and their war, we would be in a different place now.

Can you please post a credible reference for this claim. That Pakistan's GDP in PPP terms was higher than India in 2005

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ben Kingsley and Freddie Mercury are of Indian origin. You dont decide the ethnicity of people, their brth does.

Nobody knows TATA who employs 1000s of Brits. No one knows the richest person in UK. Yet UK media headlines the retirement of Ratan Tata.

I know why you are so frustrated. The reason is quite obvious as i mentioned in one of the posts above.

I didn't say Freddie Mercury or Ben Kingsley didn't have Indian heritage, I just said most Brits don't see them as Indian, they see them as English as they are white and have English names. It's just the truth, please don't get upset about it. You brought their names up, not me, don't shoot the messenger.

Peace brother, stick to the debate and don't get emotional, none of us have anything invested in this personally.

 

[CricketCartoons]

per capita gdp doesnt mean anything when most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few. 1% of indians have 73% of the wealth generated.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I didn't say Freddie Mercury or Ben Kingsley didn't have Indian heritage, I just said most Brits don't see them as Indian, they see them as English as they are white and have English names. It's just the truth, please don't get upset about it. You brought their names up, not me, don't shoot the messenger.

Peace brother, stick to the debate and don't get emotional, none of us have anything invested in this personally.

Again, its your personal opinion that they are white. They ethnicity is Indian origin British. Thats the fact.

 

[TikkiTaka]

India overtook Pakistan in 1999 actually.
It overtook bangladesh in 1998.

Pakistan's failure,is Pakistan's doing. Rampant terrorism run amok will wreck business confidence.

Yeah as if it was that simple. Now we have money coming in through CPEC and India targets our installations through terrorism. Jadhav is irrefutable proof.

 

[Traveller55]

Yeah as if it was that simple. Now we have money coming in through CPEC and India targets our installations through terrorism. Jadhav is irrefutable proof.

Um ok.
I am yet to see a single nation 'succeed' economically after accepting Chinese help. Instead, almost all go the way of Kyrghyztan and Sri Lanka : facing bankruptcy.
So we shall see.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Again, they are the fastest growing economy that has a nominal value of 1 trillion dollars or more.
So their boast of being the fastest growing major economy in the world, is true.

India's GDP per capita was behind Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1991. 26 years later, they have left both of us behind, with the gap getting bigger, not smaller.

India's economy is 10 times bigger than Bangladesh, yet their population is 8 times bigger than ours. Meaning, the average Indian is better off than the average Bangladeshi.

You are not understanding.

An Indian is about 20% richer than a Bangladeshi, and about 25% richer than a Pakistan (based on GDP per capita). This despite India being one of the fastest growing economies and having a GDP that dwarfs Pakistan and Bangladesh combined.

The above is the sole reason why Indians choose to leave their country booming of so called riches and intellect; they feel poor even after 10+ years of economic growth. If an Indian moves to the UK, the GDP per capita is around $40000 - or simply put around 2200% (instead of 20% odd compared with it's neighbours).

This is precisely why Pakistan and Bangladesh do not need to compete with the Indian economy because GDP per capita remains on par with Indians. Hence the talk of economic boom and all is simply not relative.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I didn't say Freddie Mercury or Ben Kingsley didn't have Indian heritage, I just said most Brits don't see them as Indian, they see them as English as they are white and have English names. It's just the truth, please don't get upset about it. You brought their names up, not me, don't shoot the messenger.

Peace brother, stick to the debate and don't get emotional, none of us have anything invested in this personally.

Your opinion doesn't count, at best it may be representative of non native british pakistani circle you are a part of. Unless you back it up with citations.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Your opinion doesn't count, at best it may be representative of non native british pakistani circle you are a part of. Unless you back it up with citations.

The closest to anyone considering Ben Kinglsey is an Indian in the UK was when he acted as Gandhi, in the movie.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The closest to anyone considering Ben Kinglsey is an Indian in the UK was when he acted as Gandhi, in the movie.

citations please. unsubstantiated claims dont count, especially from ethnic minorities in UK.

 

[Pakistanian]

Lol Freddie Mercury was ashamed of his Indian heritage, he identified mainly as a Parsi/Persian born in Zanzibar.

 

[R3verse Swing]

citations please. unsubstantiated claims dont count, especially from ethnic minorities in UK.

You having a laugh? Ben Kingsley was born in the UK! In Yorkshire of all places! His father was from Kenya!

Ethnic minorities have more credence than one who does not live in the UK!

 

[TikkiTaka]

Um ok.
I am yet to see a single nation 'succeed' economically after accepting Chinese help. Instead, almost all go the way of Kyrghyztan and Sri Lanka : facing bankruptcy.
So we shall see.

Doesn't answer the terrorism question right? We'll worry about our internal affairs, don't need advice from Indians. China has been much better to us than you so why should we care?