Why Italians looks similar to Pakistanis?

[PakLFC]

Tch tch tch. The italian in you sounds really upset. Its ok, everyone needs something to look upto.

I look up to Pakistan not dadaji being born in Delhi))

 

[PakLFC]

And did these Indian people just fall of from tree's? They come from some place too. We all come from Adam and Hawa so tell me their ethnicity.

 

[Rana]

Hilarious thread

The comments here are too funny

 

[jusarrived]

So true, watching the Euro finals took me a while to realize it was Italy who was playing England.

 

[hamid.s]

If by East Indian you mean actual East Indians like Bengalis then no most of us don't look Bengali. Every ethnicity in south asia has distinct facial features especially Bengalis, you can usually tell someone is Bengali like 8 out of 10 times

where did I say "Pakistanis" looks like Bengalis? I just said most Bangladeshis just look like Indians with distinct East Indian features and skin tones.

 

[hamid.s]

Looking at the height,features and timid strokeplay going on right now, can we conclude all Pakistanis look like Bangladeshis?

No disrespect to Bangladeshis, I am just pointing out the stereotypes and the pseudo history peddled here by few folks who probably haven’t been to a library in their lives

arey dada, bhalo bolechen!

Most Bengalis (east/west of the border) also looks very similar.

 

[amax]

Are you seriously not getting it? This thread is funny because in India just like in Pakistan for every 1-2 who look like Hrithik Roshan or Aishwarya Rai there are a 10,000 others who look no different from the Rashid,Latifs or Sarfaraz Ahmed or Babar Azams of the world. Now beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to each his own but the generalization after watching a few soccer players that Italians look like Pakistanis is dumb. Case in point I just saw the Pakistan 2nd match and apart from Shaheen Afridi who looks like a Eastern European (Azerbaijan, Khazkisthan etc one of those countries) every body looks as desi as it gets. In fact they look no different from Bangladeshis or a couple even can pass of as Srilankans (I don’t mean that in a condescending way).

It’s amusing how Pakistanis want to be something different than accepting their own heritage. Every one seems to want to be a descendant of someone rather than being themselves. And before the India counter it’s a typical Desi mentality and a lot of Indians are no different if that makes you feel better.

among those 10,000 others more common look is that of fakar zaman , haris rauf , wasim akram and waqar younis , that is more of a median pakistani looks , and to me these people are better looking than psedo euro looking people you indians baost becaue of your complexes like hrithik and rai.

 

[amax]

Respect yes but they dont consider us related to them in anyway beyond religious commonality. An average Turk is almost always looking west wards for ethnical affiliation rather than eastwards.

Their history, architecture etc as exemplified in the Topkapi palace is full of the evidences of this.

European and western countries are most developed , and have highest HDI in the world so everyone look toward them , even If I was a Turk , I would go out of the way to harness my geography proximity to enter into EU somehow to get all political and social benefits , nothing wrong with it, this is pragmatism.
In this world your respect comes from acheivements and power , no one looks toward a region that is on par with sub saharan africa in HDI.

People of middle east are also very divided iranians , turks and arabs also see themselves very differently , so they have right to see people who are not even from there region to see themselves as different, what wrong with it? still than I have seen all iranians, arabs and turks being more warm toward pakistanis than they are to each other.
Pakistanis in the gulf are economically the poorest still I have seen ample arabs respecting pakistanis mostly because of armed forces, obviously many will also hate us because of status and xenophobias(which is also natural).

 

[amax]

Well you can carry on living with your identity complex and keep on being proud of “some” Italian and Iranian in you. Not every one is ashamed of who they are.

Both of my parents were born in India (so were all of my grandparents), so I am happy to recognise my ancestral place of origin. They made a conscious decision to migrate to Pakistan. Having said that i am over 6 ft tall and often gets confused for being from middle east, still doesn’t make me want to denounce my actual ethnicity and start claiming to be an Arab.

You seem to be confused , I never see him talking about italian and iranians , try to drink cold water and read his posts again, one of biggest tragedies of pakistan's national discourse is that migrants who needed to me assimilated among natives tried to assimilate the natives.

 

[Giannis]

Looking at the height,features and timid strokeplay going on right now, can we conclude all Pakistanis look like Bangladeshis?

No disrespect to Bangladeshis, I am just pointing out the stereotypes and the pseudo history peddled here by few folks who probably haven’t been to a library in their lives

Going off your username I'll assume you're Bengali. None of those Pakistanis look Bengali, from a distance there might a resemblance because they're Brown but Bengalis have some of the most distinct features in south and physically the Pakistani players are taller and more stockier than the Bangladeshis, of course they'll look short next to the English but on average are bigger than any of the Bengali players, especially Pakistan's fast bowlers are usually over 6 foot while Bangladesh usually has 1 or 2 bowlers over 6 foot. Anyways I don't understand why you're trying to link Bengalis to Pakistanis lol, I mean no disrespect but aren't you doing the same thing you're accusing Pakistanis of? You're trying link your people to another nation over a thousand miles west of you, why not compare Bengalis to Sri Lankans or your Ronhingya brothers who are literally Bengalis that were displaced due to colonialism.

 

[Kroll]

And then the Desi accent hits

Doesn't really apply to me TBH as I'm a native of the land and can remove any slight twinge of butt butt ding ding.

 

[Giannis]

South Indians are the real Indians. All of the people in Indian subcontinent are mixed with South Indians. North Indians and the Pakistanis who are ashamed to accept this are just in denial.

Majority of Nepalese are no different to people of UP and Uttarakhand in terms of appearance. The Asian looking Nepalese are a mix of Indian and Tibetan people.

I don't think you understand what "Indian" means, you can claim that South 'Indians' are more native to South Asia or are more South Asian but you can't say they're the original Indians. Indian means someone that speaks an Indo-Aryan language and has ancestry from the Indo-Europeans that settled in south asia, so the original Indo-Aryans ancestors were people from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and people from modern day south india have signifincatly less Steppe ancestry and look a lot less like those original settlers than say people from further north.

Yes, also south asians are mixture of Neolithic Iranian farmers, Indo-Europeans and Veddah/Onge people. The onge are not south indian, yes south indians do look more like them and have more ancestry from them but that doesn't mean we mixed with your ancestors as none of these ethnic groups existed back then and the Onge/Veddah themselves were migrants from Africa that came a few thousand years before the Indo-European migrations, so at the end of the day none of these groups are native to south asia and all of our ancestors came out of Africa at some point in history. So no you're not a real Indian in the ethnical/racial sense but you are one because you're a citizen of of the modern nation state of India.

 

[Local.Dada]

Going off your username I'll assume you're Bengali. None of those Pakistanis look Bengali, from a distance there might a resemblance because they're Brown but Bengalis have some of the most distinct features in south and physically the Pakistani players are taller and more stockier than the Bangladeshis, of course they'll look short next to the English but on average are bigger than any of the Bengali players, especially Pakistan's fast bowlers are usually over 6 foot while Bangladesh usually has 1 or 2 bowlers over 6 foot. Anyways I don't understand why you're trying to link Bengalis to Pakistanis lol, I mean no disrespect but aren't you doing the same thing you're accusing Pakistanis of? You're trying link your people to another nation over a thousand miles west of you, why not compare Bengalis to Sri Lankans or your Ronhingya brothers who are literally Bengalis that were displaced due to colonialism.

That is your problem, going by assumptions, generalizations and stereotypes. I am not bengali or neither from the Eastern part of India FYI.

Anyways the point is sure there are various ethnic and indigenous tribes that have their own look etc, case in point for example Shaheen Afridi. One of my family members who doesn’t follow cricket asked me who was playing and was surprised when I said Pakistan because she thought he looked white/caucasian.

Can’t say the same for rest of the Pakistan team can we? Similarly when you look at Indian team Natarajan will fit your stereotype of how a typical South Indian would look like but doesn’t work that way : Shreyas Iyer, Rohit Sharma and KL Rahul are all South Indians and they can easily pass of as an average Pakistan cricketer. Akmal brothers look no different from Mushfiqur and Saud Shakeel doesn’t look different from Chandimal, Dickwella .In fact I used to get confused between Kaneria and Kamran Akmal back in the day.

However the point is Italians might have a distinct look but they look Caucasian at the end of the day and no matter how hard you wish the average Pakistani would be considered to look like a Desi or Indian, whatever term politically satisfies you.

Now spare me the effort of going into Misbahul Haq or Rizwan’s genetic lineage or tracing the route of how their ancestors came from Persia or something , I really don’t care because this thread is what it is and has become an epic meme already. I would advice you shouldn’t take it too seriously either lol

 

[Giannis]

That is your problem, going by assumptions, generalizations and stereotypes. I am not bengali or neither from the Eastern part of India FYI.

Anyways the point is sure there are various ethnic and indigenous tribes that have their own look etc, case in point for example Shaheen Afridi. One of my family members who doesn’t follow cricket asked me who was playing and was surprised when I said Pakistan because she thought he looked white/caucasian.

Can’t say the same for rest of the Pakistan team can we? Similarly when you look at Indian team Natarajan will fit your stereotype of how a typical South Indian would look like but doesn’t work that way : Shreyas Iyer, Rohit Sharma and KL Rahul are all South Indians and they can easily pass of as an average Pakistan cricketer. Akmal brothers look no different from Mushfiqur and Saud Shakeel doesn’t look different from Chandimal, Dickwella .In fact I used to get confused between Kaneria and Kamran Akmal back in the day.

However the point is Italians might have a distinct look but they look Caucasian at the end of the day and no matter how hard you wish the average Pakistani would be considered to look like a Desi or Indian, whatever term politically satisfies you.

Now spare me the effort of going into Misbahul Haq or Rizwan’s genetic lineage or tracing the route of how their ancestors came from Persia or something , I really don’t care because this thread is what it is and has become an epic meme already. I would advice you shouldn’t take it too seriously either lol

Look you're desperate to link your people with Pakistanis. Rohit Sharma and the other guys you named actually do look very South Indian and they don't look particularly Pakistanis, we have a lot of south indians in America so I'm familiar with what you guys look like I don't the Akmal brothers look particularly Bengali . They probably look like what some Bengalis think they look like. Bengalis usually have a very distinct look.

Also for every umar akmal and haris sohail, there's a waseem akram and sohail tanveer - you'll almost never find a Bengali or South Indian that looks like that. Of course you want to cherry pick the ones that you feel resemble your people most, like how some people on this thread felt certain italian footballers resembled Pakistanis, I for one do think donarumma can pass as Pakistani and even North Indian and I also think Shoaib Akhtar can pass as Bengali, that doesn't mean Pakistanis want to be Italian or Bengalis want to be Pakistani. At the end of the day Pakistan is a diverse multi ethnic country, it's not a homogenous state like Bangladesh.


Btw Caucasian doesn't just mean European, all south asians including your people are caucasian genetically and anthropologically.

 

[Local.Dada]

Look you're desperate to link your people with Pakistanis. Rohit Sharma and the other guys you named actually do look very South Indian and they don't look particularly Pakistanis, we have a lot of south indians in America so I'm familiar with what you guys look like I don't the Akmal brothers look particularly Bengali . They probably look like what some Bengalis think they look like. Bengalis usually have a very distinct look.

View attachment 110369

Also for every umar akmal and haris sohail, there's a waseem akram and sohail tanveer - you'll almost never find a Bengali or South Indian that looks like that. Of course you want to cherry pick the ones that you feel resemble your people most, like how some people on this thread felt certain italian footballers resembled Pakistanis, I for one do think donarumma can pass as Pakistani and even North Indian and I also think Shoaib Akhtar can pass as Bengali, that doesn't mean Pakistanis want to be Italian or Bengalis want to be Pakistani. At the end of the day Pakistan is a diverse multi ethnic country, it's not a homogenous state like Bangladesh.


Btw Caucasian doesn't just mean European, all south asians including your people are caucasian genetically and anthropologically.

Yeah you saw one Italian football player and determined that pakistanis look Italian and we can’t derive the conclusion that all Pakistanis look Indian following the Pakistani cricket team for years.

Now sure looking Indian is a broad term and no different from saying someone looks African even though a guy from Sudan looks different from a guy from Somalia to a guy from Nigeria .

Sure Wasim or Tanvir have a distinct look but no one thinks they look European, they look Indian or Desi at the end of the day. Of course subcontinent multi ethnic no one denies that but there is a certain skin tone (dark brown or fair), features, attitude, accent that classifies everyone under the same umbrella. You know some South Indians and have come to the conclusion on how all of them look . Good for you. It will help if you look at a map first before this pseudo history hunt from questionable sites to know that South India has 5 states with their own distinct cultures, accents,languages and looks.

Anyway good to know you look like Italian as in Leanardo Di caprio and Stallone put together. You lucky Italian Pakistani you.

 

[Rana]

What is the purpose of this thread? Do Pakistanis require some validation that they look like Italian Stallions?

 

[Giannis]

Yeah you saw one Italian football player and determined that pakistanis look Italian and we can’t derive the conclusion that all Pakistanis look Indian following the Pakistani cricket team for years.

Now sure looking Indian is a broad term and no different from saying someone looks African even though a guy from Sudan looks different from a guy from Somalia to a guy from Nigeria .

Sure Wasim or Tanvir have a distinct look but no one thinks they look European, they look Indian or Desi at the end of the day. Of course subcontinent multi ethnic no one denies that but there is a certain skin tone (dark brown or fair), features, attitude, accent that classifies everyone under the same umbrella. You know some South Indians and have come to the conclusion on how all of them look . Good for you. It will help if you look at a map first before this pseudo history hunt from questionable sites to know that South India has 5 states with their own distinct cultures, accents,languages and looks.

Anyway good to know you look like Italian as in Leanardo Di caprio and Stallone put together. You lucky Italian Pakistani you.

I never said Pakistanis look Italian you can look at my earlier comments, I said some can just like some Pakistanis can look African or Bengali. I also never said Akram or Tanveer look European, they just look Pakistani but can obviously pass in the middle east and north india but they don't look particularly "Indian" there's no such thing as an "Indian look" unless you mean south indians and bengalis look like them lol Don't you see how hypocritical you sound, you think you look Pakistani like Imran Khan and Hamza Abbasi put together when you probably look like Angelo Mathews lol

 

[Local.Dada]

I never said Pakistanis look Italian you can look at my earlier comments, I said some can just like some Pakistanis can look African or Bengali. I also never said Akram or Tanveer look European, they just look Pakistani but can obviously pass in the middle east and north india but they don't look particularly "Indian" there's no such thing as an "Indian look" unless you mean south indians and bengalis look like them lol Don't you see hypocritical you sound, you think you look Pakistani like Imran Khan and Hamza Abbasi put together when you probably look like Angelo Mathews lol

Firstly what is wrong in looking like Angelo Matthews? No shame at all. I personally think he is a decent looking bloke unless you are a typical Desi aunty who thinks fair skin equals good looks. I guess you can look Italian but think like an 70 year old subcontinent grandma )

 

[Giannis]

Firstly what is wrong in looking like Angelo Matthews? No shame at all. I personally think he is a decent looking bloke unless you are a typical Desi aunty who thinks fair skin equals good looks. I guess you can look Italian but think like an 70 year old subcontinent grandma )

I never implied that you're exposing your subconscious bias by associating his appearance with something negative. I'm just saying based off your ethnic background you probably resemble him. You mocked Pakistanis and our culture just cause some users said they think some Italian players could pass as Pakistani but being your insecure Indian self you made the assumption we were trying dissociate from south asia at the same time you're trying to link your people with us (people northwest of you) as if that isn't the same thing you were accusing Pakistanis of doing.

 

[Local.Dada]

I never implied that you're exposing your subconscious bias by associating his appearance with something negative. I'm just saying based off your ethnic background you probably resemble him. You mocked Pakistanis and our culture just cause some users said they think some Italian players could pass as Pakistani but being your insecure Indian self you made the assumption we were trying dissociate from south asia at the same time you're trying to link your people with us (people northwest of you) as if that isn't the same thing you were accusing Pakistanis of doing.

Yeah first you assumed I was bengali and started giving me some pseudo science about Bengalis, then you assumed I was South Indian and made a condescending generalizing statement of how you know all South Indians look and then you further assumed that I would look like Angelo Matthews because that’s the first guy you can think off after assuming I am a South Indian right? . You might think you are smarter than you are but people reading your posts are not dumb. We all understand why you said that. Anyways as I said good for you if you resemble an Italian celebrity. That’s none of my business. It is just that every sane person with average intelligence thinks this thread is dumb, so not sure why you are getting all twisted up.

Just like Africans are called Africans regardless of distinctive features, oriental looking people are categorized as Chinese, all Subcontinent people identity as Desi or the ethnic group Indians. May be India word is throwing you off, relax that is just a classification and doesn’t have to do anything with the nationality itself. Anyways this is tiring, whatever you want to believe man. Good luck lol

 

[Giannis]

Yeah first you assumed I was bengali and started giving me some pseudo science about Bengalis, then you assumed I was South Indian and made a condescending generalizing statement of how you know all South Indians look and then you further assumed that I would look like Angelo Matthews because that’s the first guy you can think off after assuming I am a South Indian right? . You might think you are smarter than you are but people reading your posts are not dumb. We all understand why you said that. Anyways as I said good for you if you resemble an Italian celebrity. That’s none of my business. It is just that every sane person with average intelligence thinks this thread is dumb, so not sure why you are getting all twisted up.

Just like Africans are called Africans regardless of distinctive features, oriental looking people are categorized as Chinese, all Subcontinent people identity as Desi or the ethnic group Indians. May be India word is throwing you off, relax that is just a classification and doesn’t have to do anything with the nationality itself. Anyways this is tiring, whatever you want to believe man. Good luck lol

Not gonna read all that Never implied anything negative towards your people. You do have some issues to deal with though.

 

[street cricketer]

I don't think you understand what "Indian" means, you can claim that South 'Indians' are more native to South Asia or are more South Asian but you can't say they're the original Indians. Indian means someone that speaks an Indo-Aryan language and has ancestry from the Indo-Europeans that settled in south asia, so the original Indo-Aryans ancestors were people from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and people from modern day south india have signifincatly less Steppe ancestry and look a lot less like those original settlers than say people from further north.

Dang, why didn't my teachers teach these novel concepts?

 

[Napa]

Dang, why didn't my teachers teach these novel concepts?

Novel is too mild a word, more appropriate would be delusional, fantastical, preposterous, ludicrous, risible

 

[Giannis]

Dang, why didn't my teachers teach these novel concepts?

Novel is too mild a word, more appropriate would be delusional, fantastical, preposterous, ludicrous, risible

You guys clearly lack any comprehension skills. It's not a "novel concept", it's a fact that Indian originally meant people who spoke Indo-Aryan languages and descend from the Indus valley civilization, of course today Indian means anyone that is a citizen of the state of India regardless of their race. This irks people of south indian backgrounds like the two of you as it invalidates the myths you've been spoonfed by India's hindu nationalist curriculum.

 

[street cricketer]

You guys clearly lack any comprehension skills. It's not a "novel concept", it's a fact that Indian originally meant people who spoke Indo-Aryan languages and descend from the Indus valley civilization, of course today Indian means anyone that is a citizen of the state of India regardless of their race. This irks people of south indian backgrounds like the two of you as it invalidates the myths you've been spoonfed by India's hindu nationalist curriculum.

What if I told you that the people in the "Indus valley civilization" had little if not nothing at all to do with pontic-caspian steppe ancestry (the "Indo-Aryan" ancestry you talk about) and a deep indigenous tribe in south India is actually more closer (although not the same) to the population who lived in the Indus valley civilization than "Indo-Aryans"..

You would probably make another condescending remark about south indians wanting to co opt the Pakistani identity again for "obvious" reasons. Your problem is you juxtapose the present day population living in north west India and Pakistan to the population who lived in those areas in the broze age and immediate post bronze age era. This may be a bit of a shock but the population who lived in those times throughout the Indian subcontinent would probably have been more dark skinned than your average present day south indian. Don't view history in the "Indian vs Pakistani" lens, these are all modern identities which were created due to political differences, these boundaries didn't exist then and population exchange was a lot more fluid.

 

[Napa]

You guys clearly lack any comprehension skills. It's not a "novel concept", it's a fact that Indian originally meant people who spoke Indo-Aryan languages and descend from the Indus valley civilization, of course today Indian means anyone that is a citizen of the state of India regardless of their race. This irks people of south indian backgrounds like the two of you as it invalidates the myths you've been spoonfed by India's hindu nationalist curriculum.

And "Asia" is incorrectly used when it refers to anyone but the Turks. Please inform the Asian-Americans (Japanese, Filipino, Chinese, Korean etc.) that they should stop referring to themselves as Asians )

The word Asia originated from the Ancient Greek word Ἀσία, first attributed to Herodotus (about 440 BCE) in reference to Anatolia or to the Persian Empire, in contrast to Greece and Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_continent_name_etymologies

 

[Giannis]

And "Asia" is incorrectly used when it refers to anyone but the Turks. Please inform the Asian-Americans (Japanese, Filipino, Chinese, Korean etc.) that they should stop referring to themselves as Asians )

Asian was never used to describe a collection of ethno-linguistic groups. Indian was a word to describe Indo-Aryan speakers aka Indic peoples. You guys can have the Indian label, we gave it up in 1947 and now it's been expropriated by other people that originally had no connection to it.

 

[Giannis]

What if I told you that the people in the "Indus valley civilization" had little if not nothing at all to do with pontic-caspian steppe ancestry (the "Indo-Aryan" ancestry you talk about) and a deep indigenous tribe in south India is actually more closer (although not the same) to the population who lived in the Indus valley civilization than "Indo-Aryans"..

You would probably make another condescending remark about south indians wanting to co opt the Pakistani identity again for "obvious" reasons. Your problem is you juxtapose the present day population living in north west India and Pakistan to the population who lived in those areas in the broze age and immediate post bronze age era. This may be a bit of a shock but the population who lived in those times throughout the Indian subcontinent would probably have been more dark skinned than your average present day south indian. Don't view history in the "Indian vs Pakistani" lens, these are all modern identities which were created due to political differences, these boundaries didn't exist then and population exchange was a lot more fluid.

I've never made "condescending remarks" about Indians lol you guys are projecting your own insecurity just cause I told one of your buddies that he probably looks more like Angelo Mathews than a Pakistani

I'm aware that the natives of the IVC didn't have steppe ancestry and were most likely dark skinned people unlike what Bollywood has tried to portray them as but it's highly unlikely they had any connection to the people of modern southern India. There's actually a lot of mystery around who the natives were as their language has yet to be decoded but chances are that they're more likely related to the modern day population of Pakistan than people further south.

 

[pillionrider]

[MENTION=150563]Giannis[/MENTION] Laying claim to the Indus Valley and any pseudo-history you can conjure up is admirable.

Unfortunately, none of that will be of any use to you in the real world. Why don't you go to an Italian restaurant....

And by an Italian restaurant, I mean a proper Italian one. Not something that sounds Italian and which your friends recommended as a great place to eat while in Chinatown

 

[pillionrider]

Also for every umar akmal and haris sohail, there's a waseem akram and sohail tanveer

Wasim in his pomp was a good-looking man by any standard of beauty.

But Sohail Tanvir )

 

[Giannis]

Wasim in his pomp was a good-looking man by any standard of beauty.

But Sohail Tanvir )

You're weird, I never implied any of them were good looking. All I said was that Akram and Tanveer don't look anything like the average Bangladeshi or South Indian, I used them as example of Pakistan's diversity, never made any mention of "beauty standards".

 

[street cricketer]

I'm aware that the natives of the IVC didn't have steppe ancestry and were most likely dark skinned people unlike what Bollywood has tried to portray them as but it's highly unlikely they had any connection to the people of modern southern India. There's actually a lot of mystery around who the natives were as their language has yet to be decoded but chances are that they're more likely related to the modern day population of Pakistan than people further south.

The link you posted merely says the genetic differences between the current day populations of the Indian subcontinent.

A few points.

- All the people of the Indian subcontinent, from the Pathan to the Tamil to the Bengali are all connected to the Indus valley population. We all have genetic components from the population that lived in the IVC. Then why do they look very different - that's because of the R1a1 haplotype introduction in the subcontinent through the Steppe population that migrated southwards from the region of Caucasus. All people in the Indian subcontinent including Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have the IVC component and the Steppe component along with a host of others. It's just that they have it in different proportions. So even though a south Indian might have a steppe component too, it would be very small compared to the genetic contribution from the indigenous hunter gatherers in India. Similarly a Pathan or a Baloch will have an indigenous component too, but relatively smaller compared to the Steppe component.

- So to say that the people of modern south India have little connection to the population of the IVC is silly because everyone in the subcontinent owe their origin from the IVC population. In fact, it's actually the other way around. An indigenous tribe found in the highlands of Nilgiri hills in south india, the Irula tribe is found to be the closest match to the genetic composition of the DNA found from the remains of the ancient woman dug up in the Rakhigarhi site (one of the IVC sites). This is because some hill tribes in south India are known to have zero Steppe ancestry, just like the population of IVC, unlike the present day general south indians who have some Steppe ancestry; and north Indians and Pakistanis who have a lot more Steppe influence.

- The IVC population is believed to be a combination of the earliest Iranian farmers (these are different from the present day Iranians who have a lot of central asian Steppe influence in their genetic composition) who migrated eastwards and mixed with a population that was indigenous to the Indian subcontinent called AASI (Ancient-Ancestral South Indian) and this gave rise to what is known as the "Indus periphery cline", i.e., the people related to the IVC, who all had zero Steppe ancestry.

- After a few hundred years, the IVC is known to have collapsed. The people from the Indus periphery cline migrated further downwards and mixed with the already existing AASI group in the peninsular India and gave rise to the ASI (Ancestral South Indian) population.

- Around the same time, another population from the Pontic-caspian Steppe region (central asia) migrated downwards into south asia and mixed with the already existing Indus periphery cline and gave rise to the ANI (Ancestral north Indian).

- After sometime, the ASI and ANI intermingled over the years to give the modern Indian cline, i.e., present day populations of south asia.

- The group who migrated downwards from Caucasus region in the Steppes are known to have introduced the Proto Indo-European (PIE) language family to the subcontinent, from which sanskrit develops. An important point to note is that the Steppe ancestry is found the highest among the priestly class, i.e., the brahmins (particularly Bengali) in south asia, and this is important because brahmins are known to be the traditional custodians of literature composed in early sanskrit. An explanation is that when the Steppe population mixed with the IVC, it gave rise to a metapopulation with varying spectrum of Steppe ancestry and it is likely that the people with the most Steppe ancestry, i.e., those who mixed least with the Indus cline, tended to be more associated with the Indo-European culture and therefore, Indo-European languages. Due to strong endogamy, which kept groups isolated from their neighbours for thousands of years, some of this population substructure persists in south asia among present say custodians of Indo-European texts, i.e, the priestly class or the brahmins. This is likely how caste system would have come into practice in the subcontinent, i.e., the people with the most Indo-European ancestry/culture considered superior and the least Steppe ancestry considered inferior.

- The strong association of ASI with Dravidian speaking people points to the likely origin of Dravidian languages. It is likely that when the Indus peripheral cline moved downwards into peninsular India and mixed with the AASI group, they brought together with them proto-Dravidian from the Indus valley which gave rise to various Dravidian languages. A non genetic explanation of the same is why Brahui, a Dravidian language, is found in central Balochistan, but the Brahui speaking people are themselves genetically distant from Dravidian speaking people, therefore pointing to a common linguistic origin but with different genetic composition. It is likely that a part of the Indus cline didn't move southwards into south india after IVC's decline and stayed in the nearby region in southwestern Pakistan, but while the rest of the Indus clines adopted the language of the Steppe group when they mixed together with them, some Indus groups retained the proto Dravidian that gave rise to the Brahui language far away from its distant cousins in south india, even though they too mixed with proto Indo-Europeans. Hence the linguistic connection, but not genetic connection between Dravidians and Brahui speaking people who are genetically more close to the rest of the Balochs.

The following article sheds light on some of the points above.

"4500-year-old DNA from Rakhigarhi reveals evidence that will unsettle Hindutva nationalists"

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...-indus-valley-civilisation-1327247-2018-08-31

All this doesn't matter now and so many events have happened since and different identities have been forged and created, but this is just to say that every present day south asian is connected to the population that existed in the Indus valley civilization.

 

[PakLFC]

I am proud to be Pakistani. I am proud to be Indian. I am proud to be Bangladeshi and what not. Where does pride disappear when their people risk their lives to seek refuge in the west to escape persecution? These people here who are so proud of their ancient heritage mostly live elsewhere particularly the west, many have never even visited their country of origin. Seeing the massive poverty, human rights abuses, insurgency, religious intolerance and shanty towns in the subcontinent I don't feel anything to be proud about.

 

[PakLFC]

Next time people from the subcontinent are caught arriving illegally in the west through various means like dinghy boats take them in to show your pride. No, what will happen is that most of these proud people will then claim to be British, Australian, European, Canadian or American distancing themselves from their poor and desperate cousins. What we see here is people living on so called past glories lecturing us through tedious articles of a time they didn't even witness themselves. It is nothing but sheer hypocrisy when most don't even live in the subcontinent and those who do would sell their right arm to escape it.

 

[Mesozoic]

Look you're desperate to link your people with Pakistanis. Rohit Sharma and the other guys you named actually do look very South Indian and they don't look particularly Pakistanis, we have a lot of south indians in America so I'm familiar with what you guys look like I don't the Akmal brothers look particularly Bengali . They probably look like what some Bengalis think they look like. Bengalis usually have a very distinct look.

Oh the cringe! ) )


Bruh your Babar Azams and Fakhar Zamans and Sarfrazs could roam around Chennai and Mysore and not even even 1/10 people will take them for foreigners. Sit down now..

Same would be the case for KL, Mayank or Pandey or DK of they roam around Karachi.

And lol at Rohit sharma not "looking pakistani' when you have Sharjeels and Azam khans who look like his cousins.

 

[guna]

Oh the cringe! ) )


Bruh your Babar Azams and Fakhar Zamans and Sarfrazs could roam around Chennai and Mysore and not even even 1/10 people will take them for foreigners. Sit down now..

Same would be the case for KL, Mayank or Pandey or DK of they roam around Karachi.

And lol at Rohit sharma not "looking pakistani' when you have Sharjeels and Azam khans who look like his cousins.

Pakistanis want to distance themselves from India and Indians as much as possible. Hence they try to search for resemblances with Turks, Italians, Greeks and Arabs.

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistanis want to distance themselves from India and Indians as much as possible. Hence they try to search for resemblances with Turks, Italians, Greeks and Arabs.

We can’t make the same generalizations as some of them. There are quiet a few Pakistanis here who take the thread for what it is as a joke.

I think there are few who fit the type who have probably grown up with tales that they were some handsome conquerers who came to enslave the dark looking ugly natives of Hindoostan. In fact funnily enough Akbar who was portrayed by Hrithik Roshan in a movie by all historical accounts was of very average height and super ugly looking, had more or less mongoloid features. In fact the guys who invaded India like Ghazni etc where Afghanis who are an independent country but funnily Pakistan have named their missiles after them and we all know how getting involved in Afghanistan as a religious duty worked out for Pakistan. Unfortunately it’s the common folk who probably look nothing like handsome Italian soccer players who had to suffer on all sides.

 

[guna]

Lets put an end to this similarity. I am not saying nobody in Pakistan can pass off as a Eastern Euro or Turkish. Many Pashtuns or people of Pathan ancestry can look very Caucasian.

Pakistani people




Italians

 

[Local.Dada]

Lets put an end to this similarity. I am not saying nobody in Pakistan can pass off as a Eastern Euro or Turkish. Many Pashtuns or people of Pathan ancestry can look very Caucasian.

[]

I don’t know about the rest but the 3rd Italian pic of the family you posted the young guy looks like “young” “Indian” politician Rahul Gandhi )

 

[gani999]

I don’t know about the rest but the 3rd Italian pic of the family you posted the young guy looks like “young” “Indian” politician Rahul Gandhi )

Why shouldn't he? Rahul Gandhi is actually more Italian than our Pakistani friends here

 

[amax]

Lets put an end to this similarity. I am not saying nobody in Pakistan can pass off as a Eastern Euro or Turkish. Many Pashtuns or people of Pathan ancestry can look very Caucasian.

I think we make it simple with unbised searches , and settle the debate once and for all

As we can see all three populations as a whole are pretty distinct from each other with some resembalance

These are google searches on pakistan

"pakistan political tallies "

https://www.google.com/search?q=pak...=img&ei=8BnvYPn0OY6YaeqvpMgI&bih=688&biw=1455

thsese are italians

in search of italian rallies

https://www.google.com/search?q=ita...mg&ei=NhrvYP6bApailwSczZS4Dw&bih=688&biw=1455

"and these are indians in search from indian people"

https://www.google.com/search?q=ind...mg&ei=fRrvYNGEMoOFlwTvqJTwBA&bih=688&biw=1455

 

[RexRex]

I have read through this thread and it is strange. I can't think of an italian person ever coming up with a forum thread aspiring to look like pakistanis. Be proud of who you are and learn to love yourself, guys. Teach yourself real-life skills and don't aspire to be some ethnicity from Europe.

I have been to Italy and there is zero resemblance to people in Pakistan. They particularly have more pronounced jaw lines whereas in Pakistan the face is more apple-shaped.

 

[Napa]

The link you posted merely says the genetic differences between the current day populations of the Indian subcontinent.

A few points.

- All the people of the Indian subcontinent, from the Pathan to the Tamil to the Bengali are all connected to the Indus valley population. We all have genetic components from the population that lived in the IVC. Then why do they look very different - that's because of the R1a1 haplotype introduction in the subcontinent through the Steppe population that migrated southwards from the region of Caucasus. All people in the Indian subcontinent including Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have the IVC component and the Steppe component along with a host of others. It's just that they have it in different proportions. So even though a south Indian might have a steppe component too, it would be very small compared to the genetic contribution from the indigenous hunter gatherers in India. Similarly a Pathan or a Baloch will have an indigenous component too, but relatively smaller compared to the Steppe component.

- So to say that the people of modern south India have little connection to the population of the IVC is silly because everyone in the subcontinent owe their origin from the IVC population. In fact, it's actually the other way around. An indigenous tribe found in the highlands of Nilgiri hills in south india, the Irula tribe is found to be the closest match to the genetic composition of the DNA found from the remains of the ancient woman dug up in the Rakhigarhi site (one of the IVC sites). This is because some hill tribes in south India are known to have zero Steppe ancestry, just like the population of IVC, unlike the present day general south indians who have some Steppe ancestry; and north Indians and Pakistanis who have a lot more Steppe influence.

- The IVC population is believed to be a combination of the earliest Iranian farmers (these are different from the present day Iranians who have a lot of central asian Steppe influence in their genetic composition) who migrated eastwards and mixed with a population that was indigenous to the Indian subcontinent called AASI (Ancient-Ancestral South Indian) and this gave rise to what is known as the "Indus periphery cline", i.e., the people related to the IVC, who all had zero Steppe ancestry.

- After a few hundred years, the IVC is known to have collapsed. The people from the Indus periphery cline migrated further downwards and mixed with the already existing AASI group in the peninsular India and gave rise to the ASI (Ancestral South Indian) population.

- Around the same time, another population from the Pontic-caspian Steppe region (central asia) migrated downwards into south asia and mixed with the already existing Indus periphery cline and gave rise to the ANI (Ancestral north Indian).

- After sometime, the ASI and ANI intermingled over the years to give the modern Indian cline, i.e., present day populations of south asia.

- The group who migrated downwards from Caucasus region in the Steppes are known to have introduced the Proto Indo-European (PIE) language family to the subcontinent, from which sanskrit develops. An important point to note is that the Steppe ancestry is found the highest among the priestly class, i.e., the brahmins (particularly Bengali) in south asia, and this is important because brahmins are known to be the traditional custodians of literature composed in early sanskrit. An explanation is that when the Steppe population mixed with the IVC, it gave rise to a metapopulation with varying spectrum of Steppe ancestry and it is likely that the people with the most Steppe ancestry, i.e., those who mixed least with the Indus cline, tended to be more associated with the Indo-European culture and therefore, Indo-European languages. Due to strong endogamy, which kept groups isolated from their neighbours for thousands of years, some of this population substructure persists in south asia among present say custodians of Indo-European texts, i.e, the priestly class or the brahmins. This is likely how caste system would have come into practice in the subcontinent, i.e., the people with the most Indo-European ancestry/culture considered superior and the least Steppe ancestry considered inferior.

- The strong association of ASI with Dravidian speaking people points to the likely origin of Dravidian languages. It is likely that when the Indus peripheral cline moved downwards into peninsular India and mixed with the AASI group, they brought together with them proto-Dravidian from the Indus valley which gave rise to various Dravidian languages. A non genetic explanation of the same is why Brahui, a Dravidian language, is found in central Balochistan, but the Brahui speaking people are themselves genetically distant from Dravidian speaking people, therefore pointing to a common linguistic origin but with different genetic composition. It is likely that a part of the Indus cline didn't move southwards into south india after IVC's decline and stayed in the nearby region in southwestern Pakistan, but while the rest of the Indus clines adopted the language of the Steppe group when they mixed together with them, some Indus groups retained the proto Dravidian that gave rise to the Brahui language far away from its distant cousins in south india, even though they too mixed with proto Indo-Europeans. Hence the linguistic connection, but not genetic connection between Dravidians and Brahui speaking people who are genetically more close to the rest of the Balochs.

The following article sheds light on some of the points above.

"4500-year-old DNA from Rakhigarhi reveals evidence that will unsettle Hindutva nationalists"

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...-indus-valley-civilisation-1327247-2018-08-31

All this doesn't matter now and so many events have happened since and different identities have been forged and created, but this is just to say that every present day south asian is connected to the population that existed in the Indus valley civilization.

Very good points based on science.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I dont about this one, last I checked Javed Miandad, Pervez Musharaff, Shoib Akhtar, Mohammad Yousuf, Rashid Latif dont look Italian.

Guys like Imran, Shahid Afridi's etc I would say is in the minority, the entire Pakistani population don't look like them..

Yes its a minority of folks who are light skin.

We could have avoided 3 pages, had the OP added the word "Some" to the title.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This probably stands out to me because I'm a Tamil, who are known to be notoriously proud and chauvinistic about their culture and language. If someone said my roots are from anywhere except Tamil, I would be devastated like most other Tamils. I remember once I found a book on the people of my particular caste and when we were discussing it, my parents remarked that there is a small chance that our ancestors might be actually Tulu rather than Tamil and I remember feeling down, even though it's silly. Like Tamils, most other Indian ethnic groups search for their roots in their own region, taking pride in it, but with Pakistanis, it appears to be opposite and they seem to search for their roots from everywhere but Pakistan. There seems to be a lack of pride on having roots truly in Pakistan but more from elsewhere like west asia or even Europe. I don't know if it's to dissociate themselves far from Indians or the Indian identity to strengthen the two nation theory on which Pakistan was created. The "Pakistani" identity is a relatively new one that's around 70 years old but it's old enough to form a distinct identity in itself like the Bangladeshis seem to have managed than search for identities outside of Pakistan.

Do Tamil actress's look like the average Tamil women???? Why do these proud people hire women whose skin color is vastly different than the normal Tamil. Heck I remember they even hired a white actress who could not speak more than a few words of Tamil.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Its about time we pakistanis should stop being ashamed of our Indian heritage. We are who we are and that’s how the whole world sees us.

People in Pakistan are not ashamed of their heritage. The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis would have no problem identifying as South Asian, or say they are from subcontinent, or desi.

However the word "Indian" is now reserved for the Republic of India. Can you see why they wont to use that term?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Over 80% of Pakistani population is made up of Punjabis, Siraikis, Sindhis and Muhajirs. All of whom are to a large extent ‘indic’ people with shared ancestry, language and culture with Hindus living across the border. Pakistan is a country is only 75 yrs old but the shared history goes back thousands of years.

How many Hindus/Sikhs have Muslim ancestors? I would say its close to zero. Now how many Muslims will have Muslim ancestors? I would say 99.99999999999999% of Muslims would have Muslim ancestors. Muslim parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. Depending on what part of the subcontinent you are from you can have 1,000 years of Muslim ancestors. So that's the difference.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

indic is just a language term like indo iranian or indo european , indic means indo aryan , punjabi , sindhis seraikis are not found vast majority of india at all , heck sindhis and seraikis doesnt even exist in india AFAIK , muhajirs are small minority because of being an educated community in earlier years of pakistan become more relevant in academia and diaspora and started governing the intellectual discourse of country and these are the people most obscessed with terms like desi , indian roots and all that . Major groups of pakistan are what I have listed. If you want to talk about genetics of various pakistani groups , we can talk about it too.

Yes, not sure why people try to make that into a ethnicity.

Indo-Aryan is a branch of the Indo-Iraninan language which is branch of the Indo European language . Same way North & West Germanic are branches of the Germanic language which is a branch of the Indo-European language.

I have never in my life heard of someone say we are West Germanic's, or we are North Germanic's.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I wouldn't say Urdu-speakers care about the "desi label" or indic roots, at least from my experience in America most don't care about that stuff.

Desi they would use, however i have never heard of anyone talking about "Indic" roots. South Asian/Subcontinent would also be used, but never Indic.

Also a lot of Urdu-speakers tend to take "pride" in possibly having Turkic or Pashtun roots. This pan-indian/desi propaganda is mostly the work of Indians stemming from Hindu nationalism.

I dont know about pride, but that's just based on surname. For example if someone's surname is Bukhari, or Chughtai or Baig, then they would view their male line ancestors as having come from Central Asia and intermarrying with the population.

 

[street cricketer]

Do Tamil actress's look like the average Tamil women???? Why do these proud people hire women whose skin color is vastly different than the normal Tamil. Heck I remember they even hired a white actress who could not speak more than a few words of Tamil.

You are conflating two different things. I'm talking about people being feeling proud about their language and culture and never wanting their roots/ancestry to lie anywhere other than Tamil Nadu (not even in other places of south india). You are talking about the choices of actresses in the cine industry which is driven by patriarchal norms all over the world, even in Hollywood.

Also your point about actresses not looking like your average woman is a very silly one. I mean most actors and actresses become stars precisely because they look better than your average person in the society. Scarlett Johansson, Margot Robbie, Gal Gadot, Emma Stone, etc., don't exactly look like your "average" American woman on the street, they became established in Hollywood exactly because they are much better looking than your average person on the street.

If you're purely talking about the skin complexion, then there are both fair skinned and dark skinned actresses in tamil cinema, just as there are both fair skinned and dark skinned actors in Tamil cinema. In fact, the greatest ever tamil actresses have been mostly dusky in complexion when compared to the fair skinned ones. In any case, we are digressing and talking about a completely different matter connected with the patriarchal practices of a cinema industry.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If you're purely talking about the skin complexion, then there are both fair skinned and dark skinned actresses in tamil cinema, just as there are both fair skinned and dark skinned actors in Tamil cinema. In fact, the greatest ever tamil actresses have been mostly dusky in complexion when compared to the fair skinned ones. In any case, we are digressing and talking about a completely different matter connected with the patriarchal practices of a cinema industry.

Yea i was talking about skin color.

You are conflating two different things. I'm talking about people being feeling proud about their language and culture and never wanting their roots/ancestry to lie anywhere other than Tamil Nadu (not even in other places of south india). You are talking about the choices of actresses in the cine industry which is driven by patriarchal norms all over the world, even in Hollywood. .

This is not unique to Pakistan. I could point to Latin America, Middle East, where people believe they are mixed with many groups. One of the reasons they believe this is that they come in all skin colors.

And as far as language and culture go, Pakistanis are proud of that. For example Pakistanis, especially Pakistani women, take great pride in wearing shalwar kameez. Pakistanis love their cuisine.

 

[street cricketer]

This is not unique to Pakistan. I could point to Latin America, Middle East, where people believe they are mixed with many groups. One of the reasons they believe this is that they come in all skin colors.

Well Latin America is a different case as their indigenous population has been replaced with an overwhelming majority of european descent population with Amerindians forming somewhere between only 0.5-10% of the entire population based on different countries - Argentina tends to be predominantly white while Chile has more indigenous population. This is unlike the case of the subcontinent. In any case, to each his own.

And as far as language and culture go, Pakistanis are proud of that. For example Pakistanis, especially Pakistani women, take great pride in wearing shalwar kameez. Pakistanis love their cuisine.

I'm sure Pakistanis are proud of their language and culture too, but maybe not as much as some of the others. Otherwise they wouldn't have accepted urdu as a national language like the Bengali muslims who resisted the move when it was announced. I mean, the Pakistani national anthem is in Urdu and Persian, and not in say Punjabi or Sindhi or Balochi, etc. The Afghan national anthem is in Pashto and the Iranian national anthem is in Persian, both languages which had roots and widely spoken in their countries while urdu and persian had roots outside of Pakistan (urdu from northern India and Persian from Iran).

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Well Latin America is a different case as their indigenous population has been replaced with an overwhelming majority of european descent population with Amerindians forming somewhere between only 0.5-10% of the entire population based on different countries - Argentina tends to be predominantly white while Chile has more indigenous population. This is unlike the case of the subcontinent. In any case, to each his own.

Those might be the ones who still speak the language, and have not mixed. Majority of people in countries like Mexico, El Salvador, are whats called Mestizo. These people dont look like Europeans. They are mixed, however they have adopted Spanish/Portugese. I think its a like the subcontinent in terms of how people come in all shades of skin color.

I'm sure Pakistanis are proud of their language and culture too, but maybe not as much as some of the others. Otherwise they wouldn't have accepted urdu as a national language like the Bengali muslims who resisted the move when it was announced. I mean, the Pakistani national anthem is in Urdu and Persian, and not in say Punjabi or Sindhi or Balochi, etc. The Afghan national anthem is in Pashto and the Iranian national anthem is in Persian, both languages which had roots and widely spoken in their countries while urdu and persian had roots outside of Pakistan (urdu from northern India and Persian from Iran).

In Pakistan Urdu is used so different ethnic groups have a language they can communicate in. They still speak Punjabi, Sindhi, etc in their own areas. Only exception is for people who live in multi ethnic cities, like Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad. Alot of people there have just shifted to Urdu.

As for why Urdu was chosen as the official language of Pakistan, its because that was the language the founding fathers wanted.

Their was some practicality to it. One it was already being used as a lingua franca in the region. Two alot of the Muslim elite of North and Northwestern parts had adopted it once Persian was gone from the subcontinent. Also Unlike in Bengal, Urdu was already the official language in Punjab and KPK before partition. In fact the greatest Urdu poets (Iqbal, Faiz, etc) in the modern era have come from Punjab.

As far as the anthem its in Urdu, however its a Persianized form of Urdu. Persian was the official language of Muslim empires in subcontinent for almost 800 years, before eventually it was replaced by Urdu. Whether it was UP, Punjab, Bengal, Kashmir, Gujarat, Deccan, if their was a Muslim kingdom it had Persian as the official language. Basically Persian is to Muslims what Sanskrit is to Hindus. A language of prestige. Good Urdu will use more Persian words like how good Hindi will use more Sanskrit words.

 

[Local.Dada]

Do Tamil actress's look like the average Tamil women???? Why do these proud people hire women whose skin color is vastly different than the normal Tamil. Heck I remember they even hired a white actress who could not speak more than a few words of Tamil.

You guys have such a myopic view of how a “Tamil person or “South Indian“ looks


FYI Hema Malini,Vyjanthimala, Madhubala (Roha fame),Ramya Krishna and a lot of other popular Bollywood acitesses are Tamilian

Vidya Balan , Asin (Ghajni) are Mallu

Jaya Prada is Telugu

Aishwarya Rai, Shilpa Shetty are Kannada

Kamal Hassan is Tamil

I mean I can go on and on.

On the flip side I have seen a lot of dark skinned Punjabis- Sandeep Sharma, Parwinder Awana (cricketers) don’t look what would be considered a stereotypical Punjabi. I believe Hassan Ali is Punjabi too, look at him lol.

Now obviously you are going to act like you have never heard these names or watched a Bollywood film in your life but that’s ok Google is you friend.

 

[Local.Dada]

Yes its a minority of folks who are light skin.

We could have avoided 3 pages, had the OP added the word "Some" to the title.

That wouldn’t increase the intellectual capacity of this thread. That would apply to most South Asians,Middle Eastern people, Europeans etc.

 

[guna]

How many Hindus/Sikhs have Muslim ancestors? I would say its close to zero. Now how many Muslims will have Muslim ancestors? I would say 99.99999999999999% of Muslims would have Muslim ancestors. Muslim parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. Depending on what part of the subcontinent you are from you can have 1,000 years of Muslim ancestors. So that's the difference.

The difference is that many people converted to Islam in the last 1000 years. The conversion accelerated with the arrival of Mughals some 400 years ago.

Pakistanis for the most part look like people from North Indian states of Punjab, Haryana and Uttarakhand.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

I don’t know about the rest but the 3rd Italian pic of the family you posted the young guy looks like “young” “Indian” politician Rahul Gandhi )

Well offcourse.. The useless Sonia had to pass on something useful to the kid. Knowledge na sahi Italian genes hi sahi..

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

You guys have such a myopic view of how a “Tamil person or “South Indian“ looks


FYI Hema Malini,Vyjanthimala, Madhubala (Roha fame),Ramya Krishna and a lot of other popular Bollywood acitesses are Tamilian

Vidya Balan , Asin (Ghajni) are Mallu

Jaya Prada is Telugu

Aishwarya Rai, Shilpa Shetty are Kannada

Kamal Hassan is Tamil

I mean I can go on and on.

On the flip side I have seen a lot of dark skinned Punjabis- Sandeep Sharma, Parwinder Awana (cricketers) don’t look what would be considered a stereotypical Punjabi. I believe Hassan Ali is Punjabi too, look at him lol.

Now obviously you are going to act like you have never heard these names or watched a Bollywood film in your life but that’s ok Google is you friend.

I agree. I have seen people of all color's and spectrum in Punjab, and met lot of dark skinned Pakistanis.
And then lot of people in Bangalore who are of much fairer skins. As [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] has already explained, the DNA distribution among sub-continental people is well documented now.
Well, still if you want to feel like Italian, well that is okay.

 

[Local.Dada]

Well offcourse.. The useless Sonia had to pass on something useful to the kid. Knowledge na sahi Italian genes hi sahi..

BJP already has a built in slogan for the campaign for 2024 thanks to this thread , Gandhi family are Pakistanis

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

BJP already has a built in slogan for the campaign for 2024 thanks to this thread , Gandhi family are Pakistanis

Mind games you know.
In all fairness though, lot of Sub-continental folk work in Europe, especially in Spain and Italy. So may be some cross cultural exchange happening now which we are not aware off.

 

[Giannis]

You guys have such a myopic view of how a “Tamil person or “South Indian“ looks


FYI Hema Malini,Vyjanthimala, Madhubala (Roha fame),Ramya Krishna and a lot of other popular Bollywood acitesses are Tamilian

Vidya Balan , Asin (Ghajni) are Mallu

Jaya Prada is Telugu

Aishwarya Rai, Shilpa Shetty are Kannada

Kamal Hassan is Tamil

I mean I can go on and on.

On the flip side I have seen a lot of dark skinned Punjabis- Sandeep Sharma, Parwinder Awana (cricketers) don’t look what would be considered a stereotypical Punjabi. I believe Hassan Ali is Punjabi too, look at him lol.

Now obviously you are going to act like you have never heard these names or watched a Bollywood film in your life but that’s ok Google is you friend.

Those people look south indian lol...

 

[Local.Dada]

Those people look south indian lol...

I don’t know what that means but Of course they must do lol because they are South Indian . I never claimed they look Italian did I? I was merely pointing out that not every South Indian person has dark skin nor every North Indian person is fair skinned

 

[Giannis]

I don’t know what that means but Of course they must do lol because they are South Indian . I never claimed they look Italian did I? I was merely pointing out that not every South Indian person has dark skin nor every North Indian person is fair skinned

dark skin and light skin are subjective as it depends on your perspective, those people you named are dark imo.

 

[Local.Dada]

dark skin and light skin are subjective as it depends on your perspective, those people you named are dark imo.

Correct. I think you finally got it. Those shades of brown- fair and dark that I mentioned above is only from a Desi context, for an Italian such as yourself looking from the outside all Desi people would look the same.

 

[street cricketer]

Correct. I think you finally got it. Those shades of brown- fair and dark that I mentioned above is only from a Desi context, for an Italian such as yourself looking from the outside all Desi people would look the same.

You'd have to be an albino to consider Kamal Hassan and Hemamalini to be dark skinned

 

[Local.Dada]

You'd have to be an albino to consider Kamal Hassan and Hemamalini to be dark skinned

I wouldn’t say albino because that is an unfortunate physical problem so don’t think that’s the problem there

 

[guna]

Do Tamil actress's look like the average Tamil women???? Why do these proud people hire women whose skin color is vastly different than the normal Tamil. Heck I remember they even hired a white actress who could not speak more than a few words of Tamil.

Majority of Indians (more than 80%) irrespective of religion do not look anything like they show in the movies. Only 10% may look like Indian movie actors. Even in that, you will see lot of variation. But that still is more than the population of Pakistan.

We Indians are the sons of the soil. The standard Indian look we see today has been present for thousands of years now.

Average South Indian



Average North Indian

 

[Giannis]

Correct. I think you finally got it. Those shades of brown- fair and dark that I mentioned above is only from a Desi context, for an Italian such as yourself looking from the outside all Desi people would look the same.

I wouldn't say "Desi" perspective in general, it's more of a south indian perspective.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You guys have such a myopic view of how a “Tamil person or “South Indian“ looks


FYI Hema Malini,Vyjanthimala, Madhubala (Roha fame),Ramya Krishna and a lot of other popular Bollywood acitesses are Tamilian

Vidya Balan , Asin (Ghajni) are Mallu

Jaya Prada is Telugu

Aishwarya Rai, Shilpa Shetty are Kannada

Kamal Hassan is Tamil

I mean I can go on and on.

On the flip side I have seen a lot of dark skinned Punjabis- Sandeep Sharma, Parwinder Awana (cricketers) don’t look what would be considered a stereotypical Punjabi. I believe Hassan Ali is Punjabi too, look at him lol.

Apparently you have the myopic view since you view "Punjabis" as having a stereotypical look. I have said on this very thread that Pakistanis can range from light as Southern European to as dark as sub Sahara African.

Now as far as the skin tone of models/actress in South Asia, the majority of them are light skin, or their skin color is edited to make them look light skin. This is a reality.

I would estimate the percentage of light skin women, as follows:
Pakistan 20%
North India 10%
South India 2%.

Its wrong for both Pakistan and India to promote "light skin" as the beauty standard, when majority of women dont have that skin color. However its particularly worse for South India.

Now obviously you are going to act like you have never heard these names or watched a Bollywood film in your life but that’s ok Google is you friend.

Quite the contrary. I have heard of most of them, and the majority of these actress would be classified as sanwali in Pakistan. Try to see their pictures without makeup to see their real skin tone.

Since we are talking about Bollywood women let me name some who would be classified as Gori. Ananya Panday, Sara Ali Khan, Katrina Kaif, Kareena Kapoor, Kangana Ranaut

 

[Napa]

I would estimate the percentage of light skin women, as follows:
Pakistan 20%
North India 10%
South India 2%.

Wow!!! As someone who lived in India for a few decades I have no clue about the percentage of "light skin women" either in North or South India. Maybe I should have sat on a street corner and counted

Just when you think this thread has already hit a low, some new cringe comes along.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Wow!!! As someone who lived in India for a few decades I have no clue about the percentage of "light skin women" either in North or South India. Maybe I should have sat on a street corner and counted

Just when you think this thread has already hit a low, some new cringe comes along.

Since you have no clue about the percentage, if someone said that 95% of Indian were light skin and could pass as Southern Europeans, or 95% of Indians were as dark as sub-sahara Africans, you would not agree or disagree right. You have no idea.

Apparently your eyesight was not working while you were in India. Not saying my estimate is right, but most people would feel comfortable in making an estimate. And you dont need to sit on the street corner to do so. You see females in school, work, social gatherings, etc,.

 

[Local.Dada]

Since you have no clue about the percentage, if someone said that 95% of Indian were light skin and could pass as Southern Europeans, or 95% of Indians were as dark as sub-sahara Africans, you would not agree or disagree right. You have no idea.

Apparently your eyesight was not working while you were in India. Not saying my estimate is right, but most people would feel comfortable in making an estimate. And you dont need to sit on the street corner to do so. You see females in school, work, social gatherings, etc,.

I think we are diverting from the topic, Since you seem to have this insane ability to produce stats out of thin air, keeping with the theme of the thread can you give me a % of Pakistanis that look Italian?

 

[Local.Dada]

Apparently you have the myopic view since you view "Punjabis" as having a stereotypical look. I have said on this very thread that Pakistanis can range from light as Southern European to as dark as sub Sahara African.

Now as far as the skin tone of models/actress in South Asia, the majority of them are light skin, or their skin color is edited to make them look light skin. This is a reality.

I would estimate the percentage of light skin women, as follows:
Pakistan 20%
North India 10%
South India 2%.

Its wrong for both Pakistan and India to promote "light skin" as the beauty standard, when majority of women dont have that skin color. However its particularly worse for South India.



Quite the contrary. I have heard of most of them, and the majority of these actress would be classified as sanwali in Pakistan. Try to see their pictures without makeup to see their real skin tone.

Since we are talking about Bollywood women let me name some who would be classified as Gori. Ananya Panday, Sara Ali Khan, Katrina Kaif, Kareena Kapoor, Kangana Ranaut

Just FYI I have met a couple of those actors/ actresses in person in real life.

Now point 1: I am not color blind, unfortunately you need to take a leap of faith here because I don’t think it is worth producing a medical certificate for this dumb thread.

Point 2: you may think that I lived in a village full of darkies, so the moment I saw a film star their glamor clouded my judgement but again hope you take a leap of faith here that I have met people of different races living and traveling abroad.

Point 3: now sure they had make up but unless they put a mask on or they colored their skin using a crayon with a particular tone I don’t think they would be considered as dark skin as per the Indian subcontinent definition of fair and dark.

I am sure people use photoshop and graphics to enhance the glamor but I am pretty sure I saw and spoke to real people and not holograms.

Obviously clearly you want to believe what you want to so I have nothing more to add there lol

 

[NishanKonar]

I actually went to college in France & had loads of Pakistani class mates & never mistook anybody for a Italian or North African or Caucasian. They just looked like regular North Indians from Punjab / Delhi . The only thing that distinguished them from North Indians is their Hindi / Urdu accent

I never understood why many Pakistanis have this weird belief they are more fair skinned or taller than average Indians. ( especially North Indians ). If u put 10 guys from Lahore & 10 from Chandigarh / Delhi in the same room - its near impossible to identify who is Indian & who is Pakistani

 

[Giannis]

I actually went to college in France & had loads of Pakistani class mates & never mistook anybody for a Italian or North African or Caucasian. They just looked like regular North Indians from Punjab / Delhi . The only thing that distinguished them from North Indians is their Hindi / Urdu accent

I never understood why many Pakistanis have this weird belief they are more fair skinned or taller than average Indians. ( especially North Indians ). If u put 10 guys from Lahore & 10 from Chandigarh / Delhi in the same room - its near impossible to identify who is Indian & who is Pakistani

Cause Pakistanis aren't just from Lahore. Indians always use their northernmost examples and take the easternmost examples from Pakistan, the average Indian isn't Punjabi - only 2% of Indians are Punjabi, to give you an idea of how insignificant that is, 5% of Pakistanis speak Balochi which means a Pakistani is over twice as likely to be a Baloch than for an Indian to be a Punjabi. Most of India's population lies in the gangetic belt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIMARU_states

There are 3 times as many Bengalis in India than there are Punjabis so an Indian is more likely to resemble a Bangladeshi than a Pakistani but you never hear indians ever use these people as examples of India even though they are significantly more representative.

 

[street cricketer]

I actually went to college in France & had loads of Pakistani class mates & never mistook anybody for a Italian or North African or Caucasian. They just looked like regular North Indians from Punjab / Delhi . The only thing that distinguished them from North Indians is their Hindi / Urdu accent

I never understood why many Pakistanis have this weird belief they are more fair skinned or taller than average Indians. ( especially North Indians ). If u put 10 guys from Lahore & 10 from Chandigarh / Delhi in the same room - its near impossible to identify who is Indian & who is Pakistani

The Dardic people in Pakistan (KPK, GB) definitely do look different to the north Indians.

Most players in the Pakistani cricket team don't look different to your average north indian, but guys like Shaheen, Afridi, Yasir, etc., do definitely look different to anyone from anywhere in India, except maybe the Kashmir valley, which is also the only place in India that has Dardic people. And I'm not just talking about skin complexion, talking about facial structure, hair colour, colour of pupils, etc., as well.

 

[Giannis]

The Dardic people in Pakistan (KPK, GB) definitely do look different to the north Indians.

Most players in the Pakistani cricket team don't look different to your average north indian, but guys like Shaheen, Afridi, Yasir, etc., do definitely look different to anyone from anywhere in India, except maybe the Kashmir valley, which is also the only place in India that has Dardic people. And I'm not just talking about skin complexion, talking about facial structure, hair colour, colour of pupils, etc., as well.

KPK is mostly Iranic linguistically

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

The Dardic people in Pakistan (KPK, GB) definitely do look different to the north Indians.

Most players in the Pakistani cricket team don't look different to your average north indian, but guys like Shaheen, Afridi, Yasir, etc., do definitely look different to anyone from anywhere in India, except maybe the Kashmir valley, which is also the only place in India that has Dardic people. And I'm not just talking about skin complexion, talking about facial structure, hair colour, colour of pupils, etc., as well.

There are lot of people in Punjab/Haryana/Himachal Pradesh who look like Shaheen/Afridi/Yasir.
The Pahadi people in Himachal Pradesh, in places like Simla. Sub continent is a mix of everything tbh.

 

[street cricketer]

KPK is mostly Iranic linguistically

That is true. I did not imply that the Dardic people were a majority in KPK. Just that they are found in KPK and also places in Afghanistan. They are mainly found in the Kashmir valley though. In general, they are found in mountainous regions.

And I agree, the pahadi people look similar too.

 

[Giannis]

That is true. I did not imply that the Dardic people were a majority in KPK. Just that they are found in KPK and also places in Afghanistan. They are mainly found in the Kashmir valley though. In general, they are found in mountainous regions.

There are quite a few Pakistani cricketers of Dardic descent but they don't really stand out from the average Pakistani.