For us Indians, especially North Indians, there is only one view about Pakistan...which you would not like to hear.
#FACT
To be honest, even for Pakistan, I think it matters very little if Modi or someone else is PM. Just like Pakistan policies towards India, Indian policies towards Pakistan are pretty much set and supported by public opinion. No politician would bother expending political capital to gain nothing from making peace overtures towards Pakistan.
And you would be the first one in line to take his autograph if he came to your city todayNot relevant to this thread. The only thing you need to know Indians don't care about Imran Khan or Pakistani politics in genreal...unlike OP who thinks Right Wing Hindus obsessed with him.
I wont bro but others may just to show off in social media. This has nothing to do with Imran though, I will not take autograph even if Dhoni, Kohli or Rohit Sharma comes in my city. This is just my nature.And you would be the first one in line to take his autograph if he came to your city today
Only if you guys had that mentality he wouldn’t be unjustly in jail, Indians at least gave him respect whenever he came to India, unlike Pakistanis who have jailed him with no light.And you would be the first one in line to take his autograph if he came to your city today
My father knew him as Im The Dim (his name during his Oxford days), and people of this generation know him as someone who believes Germany and Japan share borders, and that trees and plants produce oxygen at night.
Just look at the posts here and you will see what's going on. Imran seems to have caused long lasting damage to "SOME" Indians who now want to spread derogatory and false claims about him everywhere.
Straight up Ad hominem, you conveniently skip pretty fiery discussions and the extreme languages being used by PTI supporters and opponents of Pakistan, just obsessed with what a few Indian posters have to post about.
Honestly I'd be surprised if Indians (except for the few on this forum whose objective is to troll the rabid Imran fans) care very much about hating Imran Khan. He was pretty undistinguishable from the typical Pakistani leader for most Indians.
Because whoever is the “democratically” elected leader in Pakistan the rulers are the Establishment.
You have literally NO IDEA about India-Pakistan dynamics at all sir. Literally none. You are just projecting western style of engagement onto South Asia.
to some extent I can understand but the selected leaders almost always got their direction from the military to begin with. So from that point it does not make sense to me. It almost felt like they were trying to make sure even though selected, the government cannot get any credit for establishing cordial relations with India because it might empower them and challenge the military hegemony.
How can you not comment about IK's personal life when the Title of the thread is why Rightwing Hindus hate IK
- So writes an Indian Hindu very confidently online and provides tons of argument to support his claim.
We should be asking in the Modi thread if he consulted a Hakeem saab or some pandit shandit for his issues, thats the most polite way I can really put it right now, hoping you will use the right part of your brain to decipher the message, not the part that keeps telling you the sun is stationary as you always claim.How can you not comment about IK's personal life when the Title of the thread is why Rightwing Hindus hate IK
Imran is not a religious figure or God. So any criticism about his political and personal life will be game
Incorrect assumptions are a bane!- So writes an Indian Hindu very confidently online and provides tons of argument to support his claim.
oh wait!
the theme continues. One can claim whatever one wants, even claim to disown their own faith. I see that all the time here with you lot. Once again, phrasing it as politely as I can.
How can you not comment about IK's personal life when the Title of the thread is why Rightwing Hindus hate IK
Imran is not a religious figure or God. So any criticism about his political and personal life will be game
- So writes an Indian Hindu very confidently online and provides tons of argument to support his claim.
oh wait!
This thread is meant for one sided narrative, not discussion.
You haven't answered about the mental damage that causes the obsession about Indians and your allergy to any opinions Indian can or cannot have.
I apologize, I did not realize that you. You are right
I'll start with the last part where I'm pretty much in alignment with you. Imran Khan seems to have won the last election and deserves to govern. Whether he can do so without the control and influence of the military is debatable since the military is woven into the very fabric of Pakistan - every State owned enterprise, every semi-governmental body (including sports bodies), even private business has either serving or retired military influence. Even the cops know where the real power is.
He actually did have some governance experience in KPK though indirect. Pakistan has gotten to a point where you want an honest man who doesn't look after the interests of the few in the dynastic parties and military. To Pakistnais, that's what Imran offers and it papers over his other drawbacks.
Yeah KPK is a major bone to pick. He won the election and should've taken the responsibility of administration. Would've been invaluable experience even if at a small scale. Trying to run a country of 250 Million with no prior experience in day to day administration is just wrong so his mistakes were not necessarily unexpected just unfortunate.
I think the one thing you can acquit Imran Khan of is malafide intentions - even his worst critics seem to agree he mostly meant well. Corruption, if any (I'm in no position to judge the Toshakhana case), seems to be minor and typical of any government in the world.
In Pakistan's case, when the coffers are bare, and the same people have been draining the country for close to 40 years, I am afraid corruption is the best and only yardstick. At this point, people will pick a village idiot over these guys, that's the sad truth.
Nonsense post. Most overseas Pakistani live side by side with Indians and have very good relations with them. Most Indians who are cordial with us actually hate Modi and RSS probably more than Pakistanis do. Comments you are attributing to overseas Pakistanis are actually most often associated with overseas Indians here in the States that I socialize with. Before you ask, this subsection includes mostly Hindus or cultural Hindus, then Muslims.
Ah the source of expertise over everything South Asia!!
You don't read well do you. I have lived for over thirty years in the states with the same groups of Pakistanis and Indians as friends I made through school in the 90s. If you want a more expert account of Pakistani and Indian Americans, you will have to find someone who has lived here longer than I have with a larger social circle on this forum. Good luck with that!Ah the source of expertise over everything South Asia!!
I agree and I’m sure majority Indians want peace, most of uncles and auntys thought it will happen during Mushraff era
Naw British Pakistanis were trolling Indians day and night, even covid delta massacre they trolled us(I was in Indis then and first hand saw the situation).
Well travelled, well connected doesnt always guarantee enlightenment. Generally, when we encounter diverse views we are humbled by learning from different POVs. Initially, I was inclined to believe you are one of those person genuinely interested in a different POVs but that's not really the case here. You have a set perspective which is incredibly stubborn and somehow very thin skin too and forces you to resort to name calling like a little 5 year old.
I have been to the UK a few times but never lived there. I cannot speak very well for them. Perhaps I should have been clear I meant US Pakistanis and Indians when I said overseas.
I have Pakistani Acquaintances and friends from Canada and US too and majority that immigrated from Pakistan are nicest people.
In what sense?
Obnoxious sense, the ones who moved from Pakistan are more exposed to Indian culture and don’t have the same dislike towards us that many Pakistanis born here to rich Pakistani immigrants do.
Just responding in kind, Dont dish out Ad hominem attacks if you cant take it.Going by the long posts and personal attacks you are launching on me clearly shows who possess a thin skin here. I say more power to you and carry on doing what you are doing. You are doing a wonderful job!
fer kehndey boota gaalan kad'da!
Pakistan is a nation founded on the philosophy that Muslims can’t co exist with Hindus. India is a secular country. So No, “Hindutva ideology”shouldn’t concern you.
Local.dadagiri not translating to global.sense inspite of your best efforts, I see.Well, in the vast buffet of word salads, this one is particularly… perplexing.
All I pointed out was that you seem consistently upset no matter who calls out Hindutva bigotry. Simple enough, right?
Could we, for once, stick to the topic at hand? The conversation is about Hindutva extremism, not a round the world tour of ‘Pakistan this, Pakistan that.’
Sure, I’ll grant you that Pakistan’s in a pretty rough spot, probably its worst in history,but that’s a conversation for another day. For now, let’s focus on Hindutva, just like we would any extremist group, KKK, Islamist extremists, Zio boys or white supremacists. They either bask in the attention because hate is their bread and butter, or they get all riled up because, deep down, they know they’re bigots but can’t quite stomach the truth.
Give it another shot and leave out Pakistan this time, let’s see if you can entertain us all defending India’s most popular extremists group without bringing in Pakistan, shouldn’t be an issue for an educated Indians against non-educated English speaking Pakistanis
Well, in the vast buffet of word salads, this one is particularly… perplexing.
All I pointed out was that you seem consistently upset no matter who calls out Hindutva bigotry. Simple enough, right?
Could we, for once, stick to the topic at hand? The conversation is about Hindutva extremism, not a round the world tour of ‘Pakistan this, Pakistan that.’
Sure, I’ll grant you that Pakistan’s in a pretty rough spot, probably its worst in history,but that’s a conversation for another day. For now, let’s focus on Hindutva, just like we would any extremist group, KKK, Islamist extremists, Zio boys or white supremacists. They either bask in the attention because hate is their bread and butter, or they get all riled up because, deep down, they know they’re bigots but can’t quite stomach the truth.
Give it another shot and leave out Pakistan this time, let’s see if you can entertain us all defending India’s most popular extremists group without bringing in Pakistan, shouldn’t be an issue for an educated Indians against non-educated English speaking Pakistanis
.
The topic is why do right wing Hindus hate Imran Khan. In my first post I clarified I don’t hate him as a “right-wing Hindu” (even though technically I am more right to the center politically).
As I said you keep accepting Pakistan has problems but you and some of the usual suspects still keep spewing the same old rhetoric on any thread.
I don’t think this thread is about Hindu extremists either. You seem to confuse this with some other thread or maybe that’s the only thing you are capable of posting on every topic like that joke about the kid who wrote the essay on Taj Mahal regardless of the topic
A lot of stuff there - some of which I agree with. A lot that I don't.
Likewise for me
It is not, I think you are over complicating it. The audit trails and proof of corruption, and systemic corruption over decades is very very tangible. If you don't hold them accountable, you are doing a dis service to your country. I totally disagree with your statement. The country is poor because of a number of things, corruption is one of them. Incompetence is another. It would be folly to suggest its a trap, it wasn't and isn't. These people have destroyed all the institutions of the country. Judiciary is their own personal whore. There are serious problems there that need to be tackled. They want a cut and commission into every venture Pakistan takes. It cannot take off economically no matter what measures you put in place unless this system of kickbacks, cuts, commissions is handled. There was a NAB but it was defanged by them. Their old cases dismissed, they and their children are scot free to rule and lord over the country. This simply cannot be allowed.
Like I said, the bar is set very low, most people would not care. His party got more votes and more majority in the most recent elections so your views there are of course not shared by an overwhelming majority of Pakistan.
I think we all know he most likely wont be allowed to come back to power and would probably die in jail or get killed off once released.
I'm surprised a guy like you is so idealist. While i encourage this idealism among my younger nieces and nephews, I think the likes of us have to be more pragmatic.Likewise for me
It is not, I think you are over complicating it. The audit trails and proof of corruption, and systemic corruption over decades is very very tangible. If you don't hold them accountable, you are doing a dis service to your country. I totally disagree with your statement. The country is poor because of a number of things, corruption is one of them. Incompetence is another. It would be folly to suggest its a trap, it wasn't and isn't. These people have destroyed all the institutions of the country. Judiciary is their own personal whore. There are serious problems there that need to be tackled. They want a cut and commission into every venture Pakistan takes. It cannot take off economically no matter what measures you put in place unless this system of kickbacks, cuts, commissions is handled. There was a NAB but it was defanged by them. Their old cases dismissed, they and their children are scot free to rule and lord over the country. This simply cannot be allowed.
Like I said, the bar is set very low, most people would not care. His party got more votes and more majority in the most recent elections so your views there are of course not shared by an overwhelming majority of Pakistan.
Once again, absolutely nothing wrong with learning on the job and putting in an honest and earnest foot forward in working towards improvement. It should be most welcomed. I strongly disagree with you on this.
I think we all know he most likely wont be allowed to come back to power and would probably die in jail or get killed off once released.
Swallowing ego and working with the corrupt people is not the answer. It is a cheap cop out. It should not be allowed. If by chance it does happen, he will lose all support.
Apart from the the corrupt leaders that need to be put away, there are massive reforms needed to get rid of the military establishment and set up proper democracy in Pakistan. This cannot be done until these people are available at the establishment's beck and call to do their bidding and be their finger puppets. Due to this fact it is even more important to get rid of them.
Some parting notes: Indians typically wont understand this particular dynamic within Pakistan, and I am not holding this against them to be honest. But the people are tired of corruption, lies and treachery and the manipulation of democracy by the establishment. I think they are done. They are not showing the will and the strength to fight it off right now but slowly and slowly its all building up. Imran may have not been effective in other areas but what he has done in flying colors is expose it all to everyone. Yes, he was an establishment man, he was assisted by them but it did not take too long for him to see how bad things were and how the Bajwa and Co tried to manipulate him to do their bidding. He did initially swallow his ego but it got to a point where he could not allow it to continue and that's when they got rid of him.
Now its all out in the open and the eyes are opened for the first time. People are not actually talking about and admitting for the first time that injustice was done to the East Pakistanis and the Urdu speaking community in Karachi and even Balochis.
They were all initially labelled traitors and scum, blah blah.
This is the biggest fire that has been lit under them and Imran is responsible for it.
Fair enough...I'll defer to your more specific knowledge if you'll allow me my skepticism.
Pakistan does not and if so rarely, invests in the right areas of education, developing exports, etc.
Oh I agree Pakistan is poorly managed.
I cant believe I am saying this but I agree with this guy.
Please dont
I don't think anyone's denying that's the long term solution. Separate the State, military and the mosque. Let them all remain in their own spheres. Even authoritarian countries who may not agree with democracy like China and Russia realise this.
Arab spring was not affected by the people themselves. It was external manipulation.
Whats your take on BD change? you buy the student uprising story?
I am afraid I am not well informed on that one. During the Arab spring, I was really keeping myself updated on stuff and eventually reached the conclusion it was initiated by the Obama admin trying to spread democracy in the middle east and ending up making a mess of it.
Britistani's hatred for india long predates "hindutva"
is it student driven or r they a puppet BD establishment?
Maybe though it seems unlikely in Egypt at least. The subsequent elections resulted in Mohammed Morsi coming to power which doesn't seem like something any major power would want. It didn't last anyway and they backslid into a quasi-military dictatorship under Sisi.
So who do you think is the puppeteer in this puppet establishment?
