Why so much dislike for Indian fast-bowlers?

[randomone]

Except Sreesanth, the Indian bowling lineup consists of very humble, and low profile bowlers. None of them intimidate, sledge, misbehave etc. At least I've not seen them do that in recent times.

Zaheer Khan just goes about his business. The masses don't give him the credit he truly deserves, but he doesn't go around talking like Akhtar.

Munaf Patil, Ashish Nehra, they too are humble. Look at how hard Munaf tried in Semis and Finals of WC '11. Munaf wasn't even hyped up after the win. He was quietly watching his team-mates go bonkers.

Ishant is a humble lad who admits his mistakes. He is a try-hard. He stuck it out with Lakshan to help India win against the Aussies.

So why do you guys hate them?

Listen, I am sure that none of us here are amongst the BEST of the BEST in your chosen profession. In fact, very few of us actually try hard. These folks try hard, and try to perform, so why do you hate them so much?

Guys, come on. Most of them were from poor or very poor backgrounds, and have worked very very hard to get to wherever they are today.

P.S. I am half-Pakistani half-Indian

 

[KingKhanWC]

Firstly please change the title to medium pacers.

Zaheer Khan is world class but the rest are not. For the record I don't hate them. Hope this helps.

 

[IgnitedMind]

So very true. Our bowlers may not be the best in the bussiness, but more often that not have delivered it when required. Be it against Pakistan in WC 2011 by munaf /nehra or Zaheer against England Draw match...or as said Ishanth sticking with laxman to win us the Match.
Hate here is very undeserving...

 

[randomone]

Firstly please change the title to medium pacers.

Zaheer Khan is world class but the rest are not. For the record I don't hate them. Hope this helps.

I am sure that there will be 200 other posts about how people don't hate them. But, I want to know - do you have any respect for the fact that these blokes don't act like douches and try as hard as they can?

 

[Tay'yab-Ali Malik]

I don't hate them.

 

[zains_rulez]

Bcoz they are not fast bowlers

Kehlanay k bhe laiq nahe

 

[UmarAkmals-fan]

to be honest we are jelouse of there express speed

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I dont harbour any hatred towards mythical creatures.

 

[cornered-tigers]

How can you cal them fast? they are medium pacers,

 

[Blitz]

Its not really just Indian medium pacers. Its all Indian bowlers.


Check out my signature for more details.

 

[Dayman]

I am sure that there will be 200 other posts about how people don't hate them. But, I want to know - do you have any respect for the fact that these blokes don't act like douches and try as hard as they can?

Sometimes they do act like douches though, especially Munaf. I hate it when they stare down the batsmen after bowling their medium pacers like they're intimidating.

And ya, I don't think anyone 'hates' them. That would be stupid, they're just cricket players.

 

[Quick Single]

Ashish Nehra... humble?!?! I think you need to see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq1qrJCrugo&feature=player_detailpage

Going back to your original question, I think the problem with Indian 'fast' bowlers is that they just aren't fast. They don't provide the same excitement and SPEED required to be a fast bowler.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am sure that there will be 200 other posts about how people don't hate them. But, I want to know - do you have any respect for the fact that these blokes don't act like douches and try as hard as they can?

Sreesanth has acted like a clown ever since he arrived on the scene. The others have carried themselves well but this should be expected from cricketers not something which deserves respect.

 

[jzdanish]

bcuz they suck

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Does it really matter if they're hated or not? They do the job for us, thats what matters.

 

[DW44]

(a) They're not fast bowlers, they're medium pacers.
(b) It's unheard of in the cricketing world for a country that has been playing test cricket for 79 years to not have produced a single world class medium pacer, let alone a fast bowler so maybe people just find it funny and are real expressive about it.

 

[duostyle]

‘Hate’ ? What are you on about?

No one hates these players, every individual forms their own opinion on cricketers. Same goes for these bowlers, I’d say they simply don’t rate them.

Besides, why is it so important for you to find the answer to this? I’m pretty sure these players don’t give a damn about what people (aka Pakistani supporters) think of them. Your (I’m guessing you support India) team is No.1, just won the WC with these same bowlers. They seem to be doing the job even with their limited skills. Don’t see what’s wrong here…

 

[TNA]

"We dont hate them" might be your best answer. What we hate is they haven't produced even half a decent 'fast' bowler. Hence the mockery of their bowlers bowling thunderbolts.

Ishant once was fierce bowling consistently at 90mph but now he is just a medium pacer. In his cricinfo profile its clearly written atm he is a fast bowler now isnt that something to hate?

Aiming for 100mph? Now isnt that something to hate?

 

[Gujar]

The fear of the unseen is the greatest fear.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I am sure people appreciate them more than our star batsmen

 

[cornered-tigers]

we dont hate anyone, we talk about the ability of players, not their personality

 

[kingusama92]

Hate is a strong word and I don't think anyone "hates" them.

Most of us watch cricket to enjoy good battles. The last thing anyone wants to see is a Indian fast bowler ambling in and bowling slower than Shahid Afridi.

Zaheer Khan is world class. I have no problem watching him bowl. The others are just mind numbing in terms of their dismal effectiveness.

 

[Looney]

how can one hate something that dont exist

 

[asian123]

I am sure people appreciate them more than our star batsmen

how many times have u used that smiley in the past 2 days?

 

[Fireworks11]

Hate would be a harsh word to use.

Zaheer is a class bowler and certainly doesn't fall in this category.

 

[alberto]

they are boring to watch as they bowl defensive line and lengths.they makes viewers go to sleep

 

[Fawad2010]

We don't 'hate' them, we are just better











no, really!

 

[asifp]

hate is strong word.

We just don't like the idea of them being called fast bowlers, as Andy Robers would say, they are fast bowling spinners.

Lets be honest reason India is doing so well is because of their batting not the bowling

 

[z2_daredevil]

very interesting , but i fail to understand how people can hate something that does not even exist...

 

[1137moiz]

The fear of the unseen is the greatest fear.

Class response )

 

[Spiderguy252]

The only people who criticize Indian fast bowlers are Pakistanis.



Everybody else doesn't talk about them, period.

 

[Garuda]

Even if they were first bowlers, they wouldn't have been loved here. Obvious reasons.

 

[Cricketismylife]

Even if they were first bowlers, they wouldn't have been loved here. Obvious reasons.

exactly.

Even Sachin is not liked by many here (good player +humble) and every day there is a new thread about him! hahaha

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

very interesting , but i fail to understand how people can hate something that does not even exist...

Ouch....that's gotta hurt

 

[Cricketismylife]

regd my point about Sachin read this thread:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=47227

 

[Random Aussie]

Except Sreesanth, the Indian bowling lineup consists of very humble, and low profile bowlers. None of them intimidate, sledge, misbehave etc. At least I've not seen them do that in recent times.

Zaheer Khan just goes about his business. The masses don't give him the credit he truly deserves, but he doesn't go around talking like Akhtar.

For a start, Zaheer gets more than enough credit and press.

Almost every poster on here recognises he is a good bowler.

And to say he just goes about his business is a complete fabrication, he sledges, he swears, he gives send offs to batsmen, he talks himself up in the press (although not lately as indian mgmt have obviously told them all to be quiet). He acts like a typical bowler but to say he doesn't sledge etc is utterly false.

 

[Random Aussie]

Even if they were first bowlers, they wouldn't have been loved here. Obvious reasons.

Disagree, if they were actually phaast I think PP would love them.

 

[W63L35]

we dont hate anyone, we talk about the ability of players, not their personality

Yes.... common sense comment!!


Since nobody is talking about their performance, let's see how Indian "fast" bowlers have done over the years..... a decade at a time.... in comparison to all teams (Including India) and Pakistani pace bowlers.

Worse average, Econ and S/R is highlighted for each decade.

Notice that Indian "fast" bowlers did not get a 10WM for first 50 years.

They have a total of 9 10WM in their 80+ years of test cricket. Pakistan has 9 10WM just in 1990s.

 

[W63L35]

Overall performance by team;

 

[Garuda]

Disagree, if they were actually phaast I think PP would love them.

I doubt as long as they are Indian.

 

[BoiWonder]

we don't hate indian fast bowlers cuz they don't exist

 

[iafzal]

Maybe because they are not really fast and crapinfo is stuck in saying they are

 

[Garuda]

Maybe because they are not really fast and crapinfo is stuck in saying they are

its not about cricinfo.

From what I have seen in last 5 years, if A. Razaak had given the same numbers as Zak has given in last 2 years, Razzak would have been the best bowler in the world.

But zak being an Indian can never be accepted as one of the best now (atleast by a lot of posters if not all).

 

[Robert]

So why do you guys hate them?

You can't hate that which doesn't exist. India have never had a fast bowler.

Well, Srinath maybe. I liked him.

 

[Garuda]

@OP, if you want PPers to love someone Indian, then start hating him.

They will start loving him.

 

[violet_may]

Sometimes they do act like douches though, especially Munaf. I hate it when they stare down the batsmen after bowling their medium pacers like they're intimidating.

And ya, I don't think anyone 'hates' them. That would be stupid, they're just cricket players.

Precisely.

Garuda, I think most (sensible) people here do not "hate" the Indian bowlers. I think it stems from the fact that we, as a nation, have a "need for speed" and aggressive fast bowlers.

They may not always be statistically great, but, that raw pace is a pleasure to watch (at least for me). If the need were to arise, we would also criticize our own phaast bowlers by the standards that were set by the greats of the past, just like how we criticize the Indian lightning bolts

Anyways, I find that in general, Indian PPers tend to focus on stats as a measure of someone's talent while Pakistani PPers tend to focus on "other" factors as well that must be present-like that express pace, the intimidation factor, ball movement, etc. For some, these fast bowler qualities have more importance than stats and for others, it is more of a balance between the two worlds.

Which is why you will see all those debates on PakPassion that go on and on and on with no end in sight. Not to mention how a lot of Pakistani fans feel that some of our players have the right qualities to be a force in the fast bowling department, but sadly, they can never seem to fulfill that talent in terms of stats .

Hence, as a Pakistani fan, when one sees a player who does statistically well but is not a pleasure to watch (by our own subjective standards I guess), the dislike can be construed as hate sometimes. This is what VM thinks anyways.

Hmm, this gives me an idea for an interesting essay topic for the PP competition .

 

[chaiwala]

OP, I love 'em all!

You don't need the approval of others to appreciate someone!

 

[Robert]

Anyways, I find that in general, Indian PPers tend to focus on stats as a measure of someone's talent while Pakistani PPers tend to focus on "other" factors as well that must be present-like that express pace, the intimidation factor, ball movement, etc. For some, these fast bowler qualities have more importance than stats and for others, it is more of a balance between the two worlds.

Well observed Niece Violet! Hence the devoutness and resistance to hard facts of the Wasim Cult.

 

[violet_may]

^

We can be blind to stats sometimes. I will be the first to admit it. It is an interesting topic though, isn't it Uncle Rob?

 

[Garuda]

Precisely.

Garuda, I think most (sensible) people here do not "hate" the Indian bowlers. I think it stems from the fact that we, as a nation, have a "need for speed" and aggressive fast bowlers.

They may not always be statistically great, but, that raw pace is a pleasure to watch (at least for me). If the need were to arise, we would also criticize our own phaast bowlers by the standards that were set by the greats of the past, just like how we criticize the Indian lightning bolts

Anyways, I find that in general, Indian PPers tend to focus on stats as a measure of someone's talent while Pakistani PPers tend to focus on "other" factors as well that must be present-like that express pace, the intimidation factor, ball movement, etc. For some, these fast bowler qualities have more importance than stats and for others, it is more of a balance between the two worlds.

Which is why you will see all those debates on PakPassion that go on and on and on with no end in sight. Not to mention how a lot of Pakistani fans feel that some of our players have the right qualities to be a force in the fast bowling department, but sadly, they can never seem to fulfill that talent in terms of stats .

Hence, as a Pakistani fan, when one sees a player who does statistically well but is not a pleasure to watch (by our own subjective standards I guess), the dislike can be construed as hate sometimes. This is what VM thinks anyways.

Hmm, this gives me an idea for an interesting essay topic for the PP competition .

Agree with most of your points.

Yes, I also mentioned that not all posters.


Regarding stats, the most stat loving guy in this forum is not Indian. I can't tell about others but I do believe stats is a good way to show one's performance (when taken over a bigger sample ). though sometimes that can't be the only way to judge.

As per hating Indian bowlers, if you obserb carefully, there are log of posters who hate anything Indian. Not only bowlers. So yes, you can't deny that there is no blind hate.

Sensible posters are always sensible and I am not talking about them. I can tell you that the non sensible ones are on a rise (atleast in last year or so)

I am not saying it should not be there as it is completely reciprocal to some posters in few Indian sites.

 

[violet_may]

You are right if you are talking about W63L35. I think he is one of the few who is so well aware about the stats regarding most players' history.

However, stats have a way of biting you in ar5se when you least expect it. It should be used with caution I say .

 

[rajvis16]

The truth is India never had an intimidating fast bowler who was a consistent wicket taker. The other reason may be that the Indian media hypes and exaggerate even a mediocre player and make the masses believe that they are the next big thing in our country.

As far as Pakistan is concern, I can understand why they hate/ridicule our fast bowler (or medium pacer). Imran Khan is gone, so are Wasim and Waqar. Shoaib just turned out to be moody bowler who could not be trusted to deliver when needed. Now they have no bowlers who can come even closer to those. This makes them frustrated. And they take out their frustration on our average bowlers who somehow deliver all around the world (this is true for period after 2000).

So I can understand they do "respect" our medium pacer but then wouldn't miss an opportunity to hate them.

 

[velu]

Pakistanis usually don't hate our fast bowlers, but they make fun about our bowlers

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Who hates them? They're just irrelevant

 

[Itachi]

Reason is simple.... People are frustrated that the magic is still not revealed! How come our so called "medium pacers", "fast spin bowling" does the trick at times (more recently its occuring more and more) than their "express bowling" can't! You gotta have to give these to this people, IT IS FRUSTRATING!

 

[Garuda]

The truth is India never had an intimidating fast bowler who was a consistent wicket taker. The other reason may be that the Indian media hypes and exaggerate even a mediocre player and make the masses believe that they are the next big thing in our country.

Ohhh, I can completely agree with this part. This is very true and most of the irritating to listen to Star news how they portrait Indian players before match.

Also its funny how they talk about same players if they lose a match.

 

[LethalSami]

hating is a strong word...

we just like to LOL @ indian dobblers

 

[Robert]

^

We can be blind to stats sometimes. I will be the first to admit it. It is an interesting topic though, isn't it Uncle Rob?

Certainly is, Niece Violet. I am interested that Paksters ignore stats when it comes to Wasim, but cite them when it comes to Lillee!

 

[Saqs]

So just because someone tries hard we shouldn't criticize them?

 

[rajvis16]

So just because someone tries hard we shouldn't criticize them?

Full freedom to you to criticize anybody and everybody. But the criticism is respected if it has strong foundation. Or else it becomes a wasted delivery that batsman is happy to leave.

 

[RehanG]

P.S. I am half-Pakistani half-Indian

mixture..


hmm Indians think they can bowl well and fast but.. apart from Zaheer (even with an avg of 30+) they don't have any//

 

[Itachi]

mixture..


hmm Indians think they can bowl well and fast but.. apart from Zaheer (even with an avg of 30+) they don't have any//

are we here talking about indian team or indian fans?

 

[W63L35]

So when your one fast bowler gets injured...... and you still have two regular fast bowlers fit to bowl....... yet your wicket keeper bowls with the new ball who had bowled only 3 over in test cricket before today.... and a total of 5 overs in first class cricket! )

 

[Random Aussie]

Reason is simple.... People are frustrated that the magic is still not revealed! How come our so called "medium pacers", "fast spin bowling" does the trick at times (more recently its occuring more and more) than their "express bowling" can't! You gotta have to give these to this people, IT IS FRUSTRATING!

Hate to break it to you but it is because of your batting. Sorry to rain on the parade with reality and all. If you like I can explain the psychology of sport but you probs won't be interested in that.

 

[randomone]

Hate to break it to you but it is because of your batting. Sorry to rain on the parade with reality and all. If you like I can explain the psychology of sport but you probs won't be interested in that.

Please explain!

 

[Random Aussie]

Please explain!

Haha

If you think you will win, you usually do.

 

[randomone]

Haha

If you think you will win, you usually do.

So you think that it's because of self-belief that Indian medium pace spinners get the job done? Fair enough.


Another point for you guys to chew upon:

Okay, then why are our Pakistani pacemen failing hard over the years, since the two Ws? Shoaib was IMMENSELY talented. He had IMMENSE self-belief. Failed.

Sohail Tanvir had more talent than any Indian bowler.

Muhammad Asif and Aamer went rogue.

Umar Gul failed in this world cup semis, when it mattered most.

Is it a question of wrong role-models? Imran Khan, a legendary paceman allrounder was also flamboyant. He was handsome and loved by all the girls too An excellent, complete man.

However, these young guns ... in attempts to be Imran Khan, except of course other than his pace, they can achieve nothing? Perhaps they are starting out with the goals of achieving wealth, fame, glory and women through pace bowling. And all that does not come overnight. Therefore, they are failing?

Versus the Indian players who clearly model themselves after Sachin, or at least try. [Remember, every Indian cricketer dedicated the WC to Sachin].

The difference perhaps is that people can be born "Imran" and therefore not everyone can become "Imran", whereas ordinary people can become "Sachins" through sheer dedication and hardwork.

As a DEVOUT muslim, I hate to say this - I find that these "Hindu" "Fast spinners" are better muslims than our "Sajda-doing" "Showoff" "Pacemen" can ever be.

 

[James]

I dont harbour any hatred towards mythical creatures.

Still the best post in the thread )

 

[Robert]

Still the best post in the thread )

POTW material for sure.

 

[randomone]

Also, I thank you all for your patient and reasonably polite replies. There are forums I can think off, where a newbie would be attacked for simply creating a thread.

Thanks!

 

[randomone]

POTW material for sure.

Intelligent and well composed posts >> Clever digs

Still, his post is as excellent as it is concise.

 

[saad1024]

Pakistanis usually don't hate our fast bowlers, but they make fun about our bowlers

Gallows humour or what?!

 

[James]

Also, I thank you all for your patient and reasonably polite replies. There are forums I can think off, where a newbie would be attacked for simply creating a thread.

Thanks!

You're welcome! That's why this is the best forum around.

 

[ShaunMarshRules]

These folks try hard, and try to perform, so why do you hate them so much?

I'm sure they work hard behind the scenes, but on the field they look lazy. Zaheer's got a growing paunch, Ishant and Sreesanth look out of sorts in half the matches they play, and Praveen Kumar is slow medium. Bowling 90 plus miles per hour is a god-given gift, true, but Indian pacers like Kumar don't even look like they're bending their backs to try and bowl fast medium, a mere 83-84 miles per hour.
That might just be an illusion, of course, it's not necessary that speed = effort. But it doesn't look impressive.

 

[randomone]

I'm sure they work hard behind the scenes, but on the field they look lazy. Zaheer's got a growing paunch, Ishant and Sreesanth look out of sorts in half the matches they play, and Praveen Kumar is slow medium. Bowling 90 plus miles per hour is a god-given gift, true, but Indian pacers like Kumar don't even look like they're bending their backs to try and bowl fast medium, a mere 83-84 miles per hour.
That might just be an illusion, of course, it's not necessary that speed = effort. But it doesn't look impressive.

As someone who has played a LOT of cricket, I can tell you this. It's not easy to increase your pace, while retaining your control. When you give everything into bowling as fast as you can, you end up losing your control. And believe me, this does not happen for just one ball. That's exactly why players focus on their strengths rather than changing their style too much. If there is something Praveen can do do raise his pace by 5 mph while retaining his swing and control - I am fairly certain that he would have done that already.

 

[attock]

I dont hate any Indian Bowler (Well I think i dont)....But what really gets me mad, is when the Indian fans make a good medium pace bowler with a 30+ average in to the 2nd best left arm bowler ever..........And then make Kapil in to the best all rounder............

 

[1137moiz]

I actually like Praveen but he's too slow

 

[ShaunMarshRules]

As someone who has played a LOT of cricket, I can tell you this. It's not easy to increase your pace, while retaining your control. When you give everything into bowling as fast as you can, you end up losing your control. And believe me, this does not happen for just one ball. That's exactly why players focus on their strengths rather than changing their style too much. If there is something Praveen can do do raise his pace by 5 mph while retaining his swing and control - I am fairly certain that he would have done that already.

I do believe you, that's why I said it looks bad when Dhoni is as quick as most of your frontline pacers.The thread is about why indian bowlers get so much fan disdain, not whether they're competent or not. I never said they weren't at times, and I'm sure they do work very hard on their bowling. It's not just Indians - remember how much scorn the likes of Ealham, Ian Austin and Ed Giddins would get? (They weren't always horrible either, especially in English conditions).

Maybe we're spoiled, all good to great teams in the past twenty years, including SA, Aus, Pak and West Indies had fast bowlers who looked intimidating. Ambrose looked brutish even when he bowled at 85 mph.

 

[Itachi]

Haha

If you think you will win, you usually do.

isn't that a psychology which should a team posses (not only the bowlers)?

With huge natural talent, if you think "you can't do it", what's the use of that talent?

 

[cricaddict]

I sometimes wonder what the usual suspects here might have said and done had the meat-eating phashht ballers had taken enough wkts to win a single WC match against India.