Why were Nauman Ali and Sajid Khan ineffective in the 2nd test match in comparison to Keshav Maharaj and Simon Harmer?

[Savak]

The way Maharaj and Harmer bowled on the Pindi Wicket, they got more turn and bite from the Rawalpindi pitch in comparison to Nauman and Sajid. Harmer even showed exceptional bowling iq by going around the wicket to the right hander as he had guaged the amount of spin the pitch was offering and he maintained relentless pressure on the batsmen by ruthlessly targetting the stumps and he ensured he had a leg slip, bat pad as well. Sajid not once changed his bowling tactics by adopting the same approach to the right hander. When Rabbada was going for the assault, he dumbly kept staying around the wicket and kept putting the ball in the slot for him to tee off, why did he not bowl over the wicket and try and give Rabadda a more difficult angle, trajectory to hit against?

The lack of bowling iq from our bowlers seriously worries me, there was no tactical input or work from the captain and the spin bowling coach Abdur Rehman.

The way the South African batsmen played our spinners in the second test match i.e. hitting every ball with the bat and ensuring the ball did not hit their pads, sweeping, reverse sweeping everything like pros, it looked like they were the home side in these conditions.

 

[Abid Z]

Good point but it seems we were not operating as a unit. There was nobody there to point out to our spinners to try something different and we became drowned in our own misconceptions thinking Saf will just roll over the minute the ball turns. A 3rd test would have been perfect. We need to take heart from the fact that we managed a draw against a top ranked team when we were rusty. I guess we will bounce back stronger against a minnow team.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

The way Maharaj and Harmer bowled on the Pindi Wicket, they got more turn and bite from the Rawalpindi pitch in comparison to Nauman and Sajid. Harmer even showed exceptional bowling iq by going around the wicket to the right hander as he had guaged the amount of spin the pitch was offering and he maintained relentless pressure on the batsmen by ruthlessly targetting the stumps and he ensured he had a leg slip, bat pad as well. Sajid not once changed his bowling tactics by adopting the same approach to the right hander. When Rabbada was going for the assault, he dumbly kept staying around the wicket and kept putting the ball in the slot for him to tee off, why did he not bowl over the wicket and try and give Rabadda a more difficult angle, trajectory to hit against?

The lack of bowling iq from our bowlers seriously worries me, there was no tactical input or work from the captain and the spin bowling coach Abdur Rehman.

The way the South African batsmen played our spinners in the second test match i.e. hitting every ball with the bat and ensuring the ball did not hit their pads, sweeping, reverse sweeping everything like pros, it looked like they were the home side in these conditions.

Give them a break they are human as well not robot in cricket anything can happen this is not football where you just kick the ball cricket is a really hard game they were 8 down from no where rabadda and maharaj batted like they are batsmen noman and sajid had an off day that's how cricket is anything can happen.

 

[Savak]

Give them a break they are human as well not robot in cricket anything can happen this is not football where you just kick the ball cricket is a really hard game they were 8 down from no where rabadda and maharaj batted like they are batsmen noman and sajid had an off day that's how cricket is anything can happen.

Pakistan has way too many off days and our pampered cricketers are never held accountable for their off days. This team has lost many games from winning positions under Shan Masood's captaincy, i don't want to waste time to list them. Should we keep brushing it under the carpet as "the cricketers are human, they had an off day, this is cricket, **** happens". Would Ashwin, Jadeja allow someone like Maharaj, Rabadda to smash them on a pitch with decent assistance on offer?

The same Sajid and Nauman got out bowled by Warrican in the West Indies test match as well.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

Pakistan has way too many off days and our pampered cricketers are never held accountable for their off days. This team has lost many games from winning positions under Shan Masood's captaincy, i don't want to waste time to list them. Should we keep brushing it under the carpet as "the cricketers are human, they had an off day, this is cricket, **** happens". Would Ashwin, Jadeja allow someone like Maharaj, Rabadda to smash them on a pitch with decent assistance on offer?

The same Sajid and Nauman got out bowled by Warrican in the West Indies test match as well.

Well didn't ashwin and jadeja let new zealand win the series 3 nil where bowlers like satnerr and philip who are not even test level bowlers were bowling like warne and murli won 3 nil what did ashwin and jadeja did to stop that happening this is cricket other team also come to play by the way this south african team beat australia in final and is better than that new zealand team which won in india.

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan has way too many off days and our pampered cricketers are never held accountable for their off days. This team has lost many games from winning positions under Shan Masood's captaincy, i don't want to waste time to list them. Should we keep brushing it under the carpet as "the cricketers are human, they had an off day, this is cricket, **** happens". Would Ashwin, Jadeja allow someone like Maharaj, Rabadda to smash them on a pitch with decent assistance on offer?

But they are not Ashwin Jadeja with decade of top class experience.

On the topic, Ashwin made this observation after first test,

“In the Pakistan vs South Africa Test, visiting spinners like Prenalan Subrayen, Simon Harmer, and Senuran Muthuswamy made rookie mistaes of bowling outside the off stump,” R Ashwin explained. “You can’t bowl outside off regularly, especially on Day 1. You can bowl one or two balls there, but your standard operating lines have to be much tighter in the subcontinent." --- Ashwin

SA then targetted stumps in 2nd tests. That's what helped. Not saying they did it based on Ashwin's advice, but that's what helped. Then batsmen also tried to come up with way to use mostly bat.

No point in blaming Pakistan spinners for this. Team adapts and you can get outplayed some time. NZ outplayed Ind on rank turners.

 

[Justcrazy]

Two reasons. The pitch became easier to bat as the game progressed.
Second SA batters applied themselves way better than Pakistan batsmen.

Pakistan has serious issues , which need strong long term plans.

 

[jnaveen1980]

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Well didn't ashwin and jadeja let new zealand win the series 3 nil where bowlers like satnerr and philip who are not even test level bowlers were bowling like warne and murli won 3 nil what did ashwin and jadeja did to stop that happening this is cricket other team also come to play by the way this south african team beat australia in final and is better than that new zealand team which won in india.

That is more to do with pathetic batting of Indians. Kohli bowled by full toss from santner. India won 17 home series wins in a row. Only difference is for the first time in their career Ashwin and Jadeja did not contribute with the bat. Batting second only made things worse.Above all New Zealanders are heavy participants in IPL. Rachin is Ashwin and Jadejas team mate in the IPL. They are used to every ground here. Conditions here. Conway plays for CSK for so many years where spin rules the roost.

 

[Savak]

Two reasons. The pitch became easier to bat as the game progressed.
Second SA batters applied themselves way better than Pakistan batsmen.

Pakistan has serious issues , which need strong long term plans.

I dont buy that the pitch became easier to bat on, Maharaj and Harmer showed there was more than enough in the pitch if you are a quality spinner. I agree SA batsmen applied themselves better but thats what good international sides are expected to do and as international standard bowlers, you are also expected to adapt to what the opposition batsmen are doing which we saw zilch from Nauman and Sajid. Nauman i can excuse for having one bad test match but Sajid has been below par and short of creative ideas for a while.

 

[RidiculousMan]

South Africa were bowling to Pakistani batting line up.

Pakistan were bowling to WTC Winners batting.

 

[Ted123]

SA have very experienced spin attack of Maharaj and Harmer and you would expect them to do much better with their experience. All came up well and they showed they just had a transition period but quality wise they are back to a good strong side.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Need to take into account quality of batting.

Whether pace or spin Pakistan are sitting ducks when batting second, especially if a lead has been conceded.

We should also be realistic with how much we rate these guys. Sure they maybe could have played more in their prime. But our selectors are not so blind to let Ashwin and Jajeda level players sit out for so many years.

Sajid has a mediocre FC record for example.

 

[Kianig89]

1st game , SA were rusty and w/o Maharaj therefore they lost.
2nd game SA were well prepared and covered all video analysis , therefore the result.

The fact that Pakistan coaches were a bunch of jokers like Azhar & Farhat , sums it up

 

[jnaveen1980]

It is like a novelty for touring side. First test was a novelty. Second test they were prepared for Noman. Second test they had a new bowler Asif who took 6 wickets . If there is a third test they will be prepared for him as well. They don't have mystery balls or anything..They bowl long spells with a bit pace variation.

 

[Abid Z]

Give them a break they are human as well not robot in cricket anything can happen this is not football where you just kick the ball cricket is a really hard game they were 8 down from no where rabadda and maharaj batted like they are batsmen noman and sajid had an off day that's how cricket is anything can happen.

Na mate. You were very vocal in saying that sajid and Noman will run through SAF and other wiser heads told you to avoid hubris. This Saf Tegan are world champions for a reason. They work out weaknesses. They (and everybody else) can see that just having spinners is not enough of a strategy. You need good field placements plus good seam back up for when the spinners eventually tire. Yes maharaj and harmer inflicted most of the damage but RABADA and JANSEN Were no less effective and containing. Pak needed a good new ball bowler as well as a good reverse bowler. They had neither. Plus our spinners bowled completely the wrong line and speed.

 

[Extra_Cover]

We lost the match to counter attack from Muthusamy and Rabada. If we take their knocks out I think our spinners bowled much better.

This brings to an important question, what happens when the opposition counter attack our spinners and gets some shots away. Do we go defensive, do we continue to attack, do we play around with field and bowling changes? These are the questions for the thinktank to respond and be ready for in next series.

Mind you with all respect our team is a low ranked side even on spinning tracks. We have lost to Ban and Windies very recently so to have expectation that we would be sweeping the likes of SAF even with spinning tracks is very optimistic. The result for this series to be honest is in line with expectations.

 

[tiger_khan]

The way Maharaj and Harmer bowled on the Pindi Wicket, they got more turn and bite from the Rawalpindi pitch in comparison to Nauman and Sajid. Harmer even showed exceptional bowling iq by going around the wicket to the right hander as he had guaged the amount of spin the pitch was offering and he maintained relentless pressure on the batsmen by ruthlessly targetting the stumps and he ensured he had a leg slip, bat pad as well. Sajid not once changed his bowling tactics by adopting the same approach to the right hander. When Rabbada was going for the assault, he dumbly kept staying around the wicket and kept putting the ball in the slot for him to tee off, why did he not bowl over the wicket and try and give Rabadda a more difficult angle, trajectory to hit against?

The lack of bowling iq from our bowlers seriously worries me, there was no tactical input or work from the captain and the spin bowling coach Abdur Rehman.

The way the South African batsmen played our spinners in the second test match i.e. hitting every ball with the bat and ensuring the ball did not hit their pads, sweeping, reverse sweeping everything like pros, it looked like they were the home side in these conditions.

This is very common in cricket

There was an established partnership in the bowling pair of Nauman and Sajid. Bowler-partners feed off each other and are aware of the plans of the other end. the partnership was disrupted. It almost seemed as Asif was bowling on his own. Nevertheless, it should be noted that the bowlers did their job even when Rabada and Maharaj were batting. They created chances but the fielding was unable to materialize them. In all, it seems that PAk fielders were already daydreaming of a victory after 8 SA were fallen. This is where the captain has to play his role.


SA batters did bat better than Pak ones. They are professional athletes and had a plan. It was also a team plan. Unlike the PAk team - every batter has his individual plan.

 

[Katwalindian]

SA will draw in india also...

 

[Devadwal]

SA will draw in india also...

Kuldeep/ Jadeja / Washi vs Muthusamy/ Harmer/ Maharaj

No chance

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think the boys got over-confident after having Africa 7-8 wickets down.. They missed a couple of chances in the span of 3-4 overs... Not every time it is the bowler's fault... I would say that the blame goes to fielding and our batting collapse.

 

[Josh]

Because they are 40+ and got tired after 1 match. Even Asif got tired after first innings.

 

[Sachin fan]

Because they got pressure of being compared with Ashwin and Jadeja. Whenever such comparison with Indian players happen the Pakistani players in question lose form and start performing very badly.

It's a rule of cricket.

 

[Sachin fan]

Kuldeep/ Jadeja / Washi vs Muthusamy/ Harmer/ Maharaj

No chance

NZ had worse spinners than harmer and maharaja. Yet they won the series in India.

 

[mominsaigol]

Because they got pressure of being compared with Ashwin and Jadeja. Whenever such comparison with Indian players happen the Pakistani players in question lose form and start performing very badly.

It's a rule of cricket.

Lol no, sajid and noman aren't even educated enough to follow global trends let alone see what idiots are stating a out them in twitter .

Noman is a decent spinner but in PK's uae prime, he wasnt even better then the likes of Zulfiqar Ali Babar.

Zafar Gohar who Pakistan has mostly lost as hes pretty much in the UK is a miles better spinner then Noman is.

Pcb is an incompetent board but their not that incompetent to not give someone like Noman and Sajid and early debut if these 2 really were ATG's in the making.

Noman is an okay spinner and Sajid is very poor.

 

[Sachin fan]

Lol no, sajid and noman aren't even educated enough to follow global trends let alone see what idiots are stating a out them in twitter .

Noman is a decent spinner but in PK's uae prime, he wasnt even better then the likes of Zulfiqar Ali Babar.

Zafar Gohar who Pakistan has mostly lost as hes pretty much in the UK is a miles better spinner then Noman is.

Pcb is an incompetent board but their not that incompetent to not give someone like Noman and Sajid and early debut if these 2 really were ATG's in the making.

Noman is an okay spinner and Sajid is very poor.

It's not something which consciously happens. So they don't need to know.

It's like a law of nature, like how the line I am standing in always goes the slowest or anyone you support always are at risk of their careers.

 

[mominsaigol]

It's not something which consciously happens. So they don't need to know.

It's like a law of nature, like how the line I am standing in always goes the slowest or anyone you support always are at risk of their careers.

Bruh, that's just superstition .

Sajid and Noman succeeded vs England because Pakistan got lucky when it comes to batting first and England were completly unprepared.

Its jarring going from 800 pitches to mambas and england are far worse at playing spin ampungst all top nations.

Aus, India, SA, NZ, SA all play spin better then England.

Against WI and SA, the only won thw 1st test as a visiting side will struggle in new unfamiliar conditons.

They were never that good.

Noman is a proper spinner yes but hes just okay. Nathan Lyon who is another okayish spinner is better then him.

Sajid has never performed on any pitch other then mambas.

Jadeja and Ashwin being overseas frauds is debatable but the pitches they bowl on in asia and india aren't doctored mambas.

Their your standard spin pitch and these 2 understand Indian pitches better then anyone.

Its their old age and decline that cause India to lose vs NZ

 

[Katwalindian]

I have a feeling batting will be botched in one test....

Kuldeep/ Jadeja / Washi vs Muthusamy/ Harmer/ Maharaj

No chance

 

[Major]

Because they are not good spinners. Their stats are boosted by these pitches and they had no variations or varieties.

Asif Afridi added nothing of value and it was just about bowling long spells and hoping for mistakes.

You need to create wixkets, which is why you need good spinners like Abrar to be playing such games

 

[jnaveen1980]

Because they got pressure of being compared with Ashwin and Jadeja. Whenever such comparison with Indian players happen the Pakistani players in question lose form and start performing very badly.

It's a rule of cricket.

They never learn lol Keep comparing randomly after few matches sometimes after 1 match. Remember Umar Akmal being compared with Tendulkar after 1 test innings