'Will erase from map, won't exercise restraint': Indian army chief

[Hitman]

India has issued a fierce warning to Pakistan: stop supporting terrorism or lose your geographical presence. If Pakistan wants to retain its place on the map, it must stop state-sponsored terrorism, Army chief General Upendra Dwivedi has said, warning the western neighbour known for its deep-state backing of terror masters.

Speaking at an Army post in Rajasthan's Anupgarh, General Dwivedi said the Indian forces won't show any restraint this time, hinting that a second version of 'Operation Sindoor' wouldn't be far away if Islamabad refuses to stop exporting terror.

"This time we will not maintain the restraint that we had in Operation Sindoor 1.0. This time we will do something that will make Pakistan think whether it wants to retain its place in geography or not. If Pakistan wants to retain its place in geography, then it must stop state-sponsored terrorism," he said at an army post in Rajasthan.

He also asked the soldiers to stay prepared. "If God wills, you'll get an opportunity soon. All the best," the Chief of Army Staff said.

Gen Dwivedi's warning follows Air Chief Marshal AP Singh's remark earlier in the day that the Indian forces had downed four to five Pakistani fighter jets, including US-made F-16s and Chinese JF-17s, during Operation Sindoor in May.

The mega military operation was undertaken by India to give a fitting reply in the aftermath of the Pahalgam terror attack. Nine terror camps were hit in Pakistan and PoK (Pakistan-occupied Kashmir) by Indian forces using long-range precision weapons on May 7.

The attack on terror camps had brought the two countries to a near-war situation, during which the Indian air chief had claimed that Pakistan lost five of its fighter jets and a 'big bird', likely an airborne early warning and control aircraft.

A ceasefire followed on May 10 after the Pakistani commanders pleaded with their Indian counterparts to stop the offensive.

During Operation Sindoor, India resolved that no innocent lives would be harmed and no military targets would be destroyed, said the Army chief, adding that the focus was on eliminating terrorist hideouts, training centres and their masterminds.

He further said that India presented evidence to the world about the terrorist hideouts destroyed during Operation Sindoor. Had India not done so, Pakistan would have hidden the truth, he said.

The Army chief also honoured three officers for their exceptional work during Operation Sindoor. At the event, BSF 140th Battalion Commandant Prabhakar Singh, Rajputana Rifles Major Ritesh Kumar, and Havildar Mohit Gaira received special recognition.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/wil...e-restraint-army-chief-warns-pakistan-9389206​

 

[Varun]

Since when has our military become such motormouths?

 

[ahsan17]

Classic case of pot calling kettle.black.

 

[MenInG]

He us best advised to watch some Bollywood movie and get over it.

Not happening in real life.

 

[Hitman]

He us best advised to watch some Bollywood movie and get over it.

Not happening in real life.

Anyone with a brain knows that.

 

[Energy]

Need to call your best agents then. Hrithik and Salman won't cut it. Get Adnan Sami in!

 

[Hitman]

Need to call your best agents then. Hrithik and Salman won't cut it. Get Adnan Sami in!

Adnan Sami 20 years ago would have been alone good enough to swallow half of Pakistan.

 

[Red-Indian]

Since when has our military become such motormouths?

Yeah... doesn't feel right. They should remain professional as they've always been and leave the bombast to the politicians.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Whatever he's smoking, he must stop!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You guys are trying to hard now.

It's over. The world knows you lost.

Let it go.

 

[Rajdeep]

You guys are trying to hard now.

It's over. The world knows you lost.

Let it go.

Which world?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Which world?

Major superpowers.

 

[gazza619]

India’s arrogance has frustrated many nations. They have been double crossing for years. They have been exporting terrorism to many countries. This thread is another example why dharma has a bleak future.

 

[Rajdeep]

Major superpowers.

Would you mind sharing some proof where 'major superpowers' have said Pakistan won the war against India?

This is my problem with current generation of Pakistanis who choose to live North Korean lifestyle.

 

[Rajdeep]

India’s arrogance has frustrated many nations. They have been double crossing for years. They have been exporting terrorism to many countries. This thread is another example why dharma has a bleak future.

Nah...world knows who and which country exports terrorism. Recent one we witnessed in Manchester.

Yes, India indeed frustrated and humiliated Donald Trump who wanted to bully India with tariffs. India choose to ignore and continue to buy Russain oil. That is called self respect and standing one's ground firmly without selling its soul.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Would you mind sharing some proof where 'major superpowers' have said Pakistan won the war against India?

This is my problem with current generation of Pakistanis who choose to live North Korean lifestyle.

Read the news article in the OP as it gives North Korea vibes before making silly comments.

 

[Patriot]

Nah...world knows who and which country exports terrorism. Recent one we witnessed in Manchester.

Yes, India indeed frustrated and humiliated Donald Trump who wanted to bully India with tariffs. India choose to ignore and continue to buy Russain oil. That is called self respect and standing one's ground firmly without selling its soul.

The Manchester killer was not a Pakistani you moron.

 

[gazza619]

Nah...world knows who and which country exports terrorism. Recent one we witnessed in Manchester.

Yes, India indeed frustrated and humiliated Donald Trump who wanted to bully India with tariffs. India choose to ignore and continue to buy Russain oil. That is called self respect and standing one's ground firmly without selling its soul.

India humiliated Trump, India humiliated Shahbaz Sharif, India humiliated Prince Salman, India humiliated Salman Ali Agha, India humiliated Mohsin Naqvi. India humiliated Bangladesh, India humiliated muslims, India humiliated humanity, India humiliated common sense, India humiliated cowardness.

Seems like India is very good at humiliating and should stick to it.

 

[Rajdeep]

Read the news article in the OP as it gives North Korea vibes before making silly comments.

So no proof of 'majority of world superpowers' have said Pakistan won the war. LOL.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

So no proof of 'majority of world superpowers' have said Pakistan won the war. LOL.

When you ask the question respectfully you will get the answer.

But talking about North Korea mentality in Pakistan while lapping up kool aid from your media doesn't warrant a serious response.

Stick to those topic in your family Whatsapp groups or with your BJP supporting truck drivers. Don't try it in front of educated people and expect a detailed response.

 

[Rajdeep]

India humiliated Trump, India humiliated Shahbaz Sharif, India humiliated Prince Salman, India humiliated Salman Ali Agha, India humiliated Mohsin Naqvi. India humiliated Bangladesh, India humiliated muslims, India humiliated humanity, India humiliated common sense, India humiliated cowardness.

Seems like India is very good at humiliating and should stick to it.

You are not in a very stable state of mind ever since the Asia cup humiliation. I have noticed it from your posting style since last sunday. You also opened a thread 'Is India a coward Nation' in frustration which got taken out my mods. Get well soon bro

 

[Patriot]

How is this any different to when the Indians complained about Asim Munir making threats in public.

You can’t get a bigger threat than wiping a whole country off of a map. The man is a lunatic. He’s hinting at nuclear Armageddon.

 

[gazza619]

You are not in a very stable state of mind ever since the Asia cup humiliation. I have noticed it from your posting style since last sunday. You also opened a thread 'Is India a coward Nation' in frustration which got taken out my mods. Get well soon bro

Sorry forgot to add, India humiliated the asia cup trophy

 

[Rajdeep]

When you ask the question respectfully you will get the answer.

But talking about North Korea mentality in Pakistan while lapping up kool aid from your media doesn't warrant a serious response.

Stick to those topic in your family Whatsapp groups or with your BJP supporting truck drivers. Don't try it in front of educated people and expect a detailed response.

Okay now pls respond - where has most world superpower said Pakistan won the war against India?

 

[battler]

Okay now pls respond - where has most world superpower said Pakistan won the war against India?

I wonder why Pakistani's never talk about what happend to their 11 airbases

 

[Rajdeep]

I wonder why Pakistani's never talk about what happend to their 11 airbases

Just today I read Shahibzada Farhan got felicitated for his fearless batting and hitting Bumrah for 3 sixes. Imagine, losing against India 3 times and yet felicitating its players as victorious.

Similarly, every logical person would know they lost the war on 7th May after successful Operation Sindoor. However, they choose to celebrate downing few Indian jets and claim it as victory.

Then when I bring North Korean analogy people get angry. Do you know, in North Korea people believe they won every FIFA world cup they participated so far?

 

[battler]

Just today I read Shahibzada Farhan got felicitated for his fearless batting and hitting Bumrah for 3 sixes. Imagine, losing against India 3 times and yet felicitating its players as victorious.

Similarly, every logical person would know they lost the war on 7th May after successful Operation Sindoor. However, they choose to celebrate downing few Indian jets and claim it as victory.

Then when I bring North Korean analogy people get angry. Do you know, in North Korea people believe they won every FIFA world cup they participated so far?

North Korean ideology is bang on, Pakistani's will accept anything their army says, Imran khan is still paying the price for questioning the Pakistan army.

 

[Patriot]

North Korean ideology is bang on, Pakistani's will accept anything their army says, Imran khan is still paying the price for questioning the Pakistan army.

I guess both Indians and Pakistanis are similar then. Indians were believing everything their media was telling them including Karachi being taken. People of the subcontinent have a low IQ.

This was no war, just a skirmish with both sides having losses. There was no winner in this.

 

[SherWaqar]

India has issued a fierce warning to Pakistan: stop supporting terrorism or lose your geographical presence. If Pakistan wants to retain its place on the map, it must stop state-sponsored terrorism, Army chief General Upendra Dwivedi has said, warning the western neighbour known for its deep-state backing of terror masters.

Speaking at an Army post in Rajasthan's Anupgarh, General Dwivedi said the Indian forces won't show any restraint this time, hinting that a second version of 'Operation Sindoor' wouldn't be far away if Islamabad refuses to stop exporting terror.

"This time we will not maintain the restraint that we had in Operation Sindoor 1.0. This time we will do something that will make Pakistan think whether it wants to retain its place in geography or not. If Pakistan wants to retain its place in geography, then it must stop state-sponsored terrorism," he said at an army post in Rajasthan.

He also asked the soldiers to stay prepared. "If God wills, you'll get an opportunity soon. All the best," the Chief of Army Staff said.

Gen Dwivedi's warning follows Air Chief Marshal AP Singh's remark earlier in the day that the Indian forces had downed four to five Pakistani fighter jets, including US-made F-16s and Chinese JF-17s, during Operation Sindoor in May.

The mega military operation was undertaken by India to give a fitting reply in the aftermath of the Pahalgam terror attack. Nine terror camps were hit in Pakistan and PoK (Pakistan-occupied Kashmir) by Indian forces using long-range precision weapons on May 7.

The attack on terror camps had brought the two countries to a near-war situation, during which the Indian air chief had claimed that Pakistan lost five of its fighter jets and a 'big bird', likely an airborne early warning and control aircraft.

A ceasefire followed on May 10 after the Pakistani commanders pleaded with their Indian counterparts to stop the offensive.

During Operation Sindoor, India resolved that no innocent lives would be harmed and no military targets would be destroyed, said the Army chief, adding that the focus was on eliminating terrorist hideouts, training centres and their masterminds.

He further said that India presented evidence to the world about the terrorist hideouts destroyed during Operation Sindoor. Had India not done so, Pakistan would have hidden the truth, he said.

The Army chief also honoured three officers for their exceptional work during Operation Sindoor. At the event, BSF 140th Battalion Commandant Prabhakar Singh, Rajputana Rifles Major Ritesh Kumar, and Havildar Mohit Gaira received special recognition.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/wil...e-restraint-army-chief-warns-pakistan-9389206​

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

 

[ElRaja]

india is becoming pakistans zia 2.0.

 

[RexRex]

Imran khan is still paying the price for questioning the Pakistan army.

Khakis made an example out of Pak's biggest public hero Imran Khan. No pakistani journalist or citizen will ever question their army again out of fear.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

North Korean ideology is bang on, Pakistani's will accept anything their army says, Imran khan is still paying the price for questioning the Pakistan army.

Do you agree with what your army is saying in the OP?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I wonder why Pakistani's never talk about what happend to their 11 airbases

They took a few hits.

It's not a secret

 

[Rajdeep]

They took a few hits.

It's not a secret

11 Airbases is few hits? Broooo

 

[DeadlyVenom]

11 Airbases is few hits? Broooo

The airbases took a few hits.

As did yours.

 

[battler]

Do you agree with what your army is saying in the OP?

Obviously wiping Pakistan out isn't possible unless India actually use nukes so I don't agree that we can wipe Pakistan out, it was more for domestic consumption. But we are hearing multiple statements from defence minister, army chief and air chief so wouldn't be suprised if there is some sort of military operation in the foreseeable future.

 

[amax]

This is serious, coming from the Army chief, politicians do such silly things , but coming from a professional, its should be taken very seriously. Either something big is coming, especially against PAF/PN or the Indian army is now hostage to Hindutva vote bank politics as well.

 

[battler]

This is serious, coming from the Army chief, politicians do such silly things , but coming from a professional, its should be taken very seriously. Either something big is coming, especially against PAF/PN or the Indian army is now hostage to Hindutva vote bank politics as well.

The thing is defence minister, air chief and army chief are making similar statements at the same time, it is hardly a coincidence, again it could be to deter pak army movements in sir creek but after op sindoor anything is possible, like I said in ther earlier post wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of military operation in the near future.

 

[HalBass9]

india is becoming pakistans zia 2.0.

Has become.

 

[hks222]

Has become.

True.

And I hope mods here ban these cockroaches

 

[uppercut]

The airbases took a few hits.

As did yours.

Has Pakistan found any evidence yet to back that up?

 

[RidiculousMan]

Another nutcase in the region.

 

[Ball Blazer]

Army warns India of 'cataclysmic devastation' if it triggers fresh round of hostilities​

Pakistan Army has warned India over provocative statements, cautioning that its fresh round of hostilities would lead towards cataclysmic devastation as Pakistan will not hold back but respond without any worries.

“We caution that a future conflict might lead to cataclysmic devastation. In case a fresh round of hostilities is triggered, Pakistan will not hold back. We shall resolutely respond without qualms or restraint,” said the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) on Saturday.

The statement added that the Army has noted with grave concern the delusional, provocative and jingoistic remarks coming from the highest levels of the Indian security establishment. “These irresponsible statements indicate a renewed attempt to fabricate arbitrary pretexts for aggression — a prospect that could have serious consequences for peace and stability in South Asia,” it said.

For decades, India has benefited from portraying itself as the victim and painting Pakistan in a negative light while allegedly stoking violence and perpetrating terrorism in South Asia and beyond. That narrative, the statement said, has been sufficiently debunked, and the world now recognises India as the true face of cross-border terrorism and the epicentre of regional instability.

The ISPR said, earlier this year, Indian aggression against Pakistan brought two nuclear powers to the brink of a major war. However, India seems to have forgotten the wreckage of its fighter jets and the reach of Pakistan’s long-range vectors. Suffering from collective amnesia, India now appears to be seeking the next round of confrontation.

The statement warned that those attempting to establish a ‘new normal’ should know Pakistan has established its own new normal of response, which will be swift, decisive and destructive. “In the face of unwarranted threats and reckless aggression, the people and the Armed Forces of Pakistan have the capability and resolve to take the fight to every nook and corner of the enemy’s territory.”

“This time we shall shatter the myth of geographic immunity, hitting the farthest reaches of Indian territory,” the statement said. “As for talk of erasing Pakistan from the map, India must know that, if such a situation arises, the erasure will be on both sides of the border.”

Pakistan-India Recent Conflict

The latest escalation between Pakistan and India began on April 22, when an attack in Pahalgam killed 26 people. India immediately blamed Pakistan for the incident. However, Pakistan categorically rejected the Indian blame.

In response, India undertook a series of hostile actions the next day on April 23, including suspending the 65-year-old Indus Waters Treaty (IWT), cancelling visas for Pakistani citizens, closing the Wagah-Attari border crossing, ordering the shutdown of the Pakistan High Commission in New Delhi, and reducing diplomatic staff at each other's embassies.

Tensions further escalated in the early hours of May 7, when missile strikes hit six cities in Punjab and Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK), destroying a mosque and killing dozens of civilians, including women, children, and the elderly.

In a swift military response, Pakistan’s armed forces shot down Indian warplanes, including three Rafale jets. The confrontation intensified again in the early hours of May 10, when India targeted several Pakistani airbases with missile strikes. In retaliation, Pakistan launched Operation Bunyanum Marsoos, damaging Indian military installations, including missile storage sites, airbases, and other strategic targets.

Later, US President Donald Trump announced that a ceasefire had been reached following intense diplomatic efforts overnight. Minutes later, the agreement was confirmed separately by Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Ishaq Dar and the Indian foreign secretary.

Army warns India of 'cataclysmic devastation' if it triggers fresh round of hostilities | The Express Tribune

ISPR calls India’s provocative, jingoistic remarks irresponsible, terming them renewed attempt to incite conflict

tribune.com.pk

 

[Champ_Pal]

These army people should shut their mouth. Both sides claiming victory and only some airbases and jets were downed. Of course lives of soldiers as well as innocents were lost.

 

[Stewie]

That’s what happens when every single move of your politicians is geared towards hate and animosity of a certain group of people or country. When the sole qualification of your success is marginalizing a particular faith and continuing hostilities against a country, you are on a self destructive path. The Indians need to realize this.

 

[uppercut]

That’s what happens when every single move of your politicians is geared towards hate and animosity of a certain group of people or country. When the sole qualification of your success is marginalizing a particular faith and continuing hostilities against a country, you are on a self destructive path. The Indians need to realize this.

Remind me again .... what was your Army chief (now a Field Marshall!!) saying on the topic of Hindus vs Muslims just less than 6 months ago on camera? And which community was involved in gunning down 26 un-armed tourists by first making them remove pants to confirm if they were Hindus before shooting them point blank infront of their women and children ?

Let me know if that is not enough evidence of which community owns the tag of "Masters of Religious Intolerance" if that is not enough.

​

 

[hks222]

If that happens - you won't remain on map either.

Each and everyone of you will cease to exist.

 

[sweep_shot]

India actually lost 2000-38000 sq km of territory to China since 2021.

India is the only country in subcontinent that have lost territory in the last 10 years.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan showed a lot of restraint during the recent operation. They could've shot down as many as 20 jets and they could've done more damages. But, I guess they didn't want to escalate.

If India try this with China, China are likely to smash them back to stone age.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

11 Airbases is few hits? Broooo

so According to you India Won the battle. Destroyed 11 Airbases , so many aircrafts as Indian Air chief is now claiming waking up from slumber. the amount of imaginary aircrafts Pak lost along with airbases should render PAF toothless

Now question arises , why did India agree to ceasefire? And what demands did India put forward to Pakistan's army to agree on ceasefire since Pak lost so much.. Indian Army Chief is now threatning to erase Pak from map and demanding Pak to stop terror activities. Can you tell why did nt India make Pakistan agree to its terms in May since you guys won it..called our nuclear bluff.. destroyed our airbases and countless aircrafts. Indian Army Chief would not need to threat Pakistan if India had brought Pak to its knees in May.. did this thought ever occur in your under cooked brain?

 

[uppercut]

so According to you India Won the battle. Destroyed 11 Airbases , so many aircrafts as Indian Air chief is now claiming waking up from slumber. the amount of imaginary aircrafts Pak lost along with airbases should render PAF toothless

Now question arises , why did India agree to ceasefire? And what demands did India put forward to Pakistan's army to agree on ceasefire since Pak lost so much.. Indian Army Chief is now threatning to erase Pak from map and demanding Pak to stop terror activities. Can you tell why did nt India make Pakistan agree to its terms in May since you guys won it..called our nuclear bluff.. destroyed our airbases and countless aircrafts. Indian Army Chief would not need to threat Pakistan if India had brought Pak to its knees in May.. did this thought ever occur in your under cooked brain?

conversely these considerations were not applicable to Pakistan ? Why did Pakistan agree to Ceasefire ?

 

[Stewie]

Remind me again .... what was your Army chief (now a Field Marshall!!) saying on the topic of Hindus vs Muslims just less than 6 months ago on camera? And which community was involved in gunning down 26 un-armed tourists by first making them remove pants to confirm if they were Hindus before shooting them point blank infront of their women and children ?

Let me know if that is not enough evidence of which community owns the tag of "Masters of Religious Intolerance" if that is not enough.

​

We are still waiting for any proof you have to share that the act was perpetrated by Muslims.

 

[Major]

The asia cup trophy fiasco has made them gone crazy

 

[uppercut]

We are still waiting for any proof you have to share that the act was perpetrated by Muslims.

So you are saying that the Pehalgam killers were Hindus ? If so what is YOUR evidence to prove that ?

But to answer your question the Indian military flushed out these killers and their identities revealed. There was even a funeral in absentia held in Pakistan for one of them. Also recently the person who provided local support to them has been arrested.

 

[Stewie]

So you are saying that the Pehalgam killers were Hindus ? If so what is YOUR evidence to prove that ?

But to answer your question the Indian military flushed out these killers and their identities revealed. There was even a funeral in absentia held in Pakistan for one of them. Also recently the person who provided local support to them has been arrested.

I don't think you really understand the concept of innocent till proven guilty. I didn't allege Hindus perpetrated the crime. Just like you are assuming Muslims did.

There is no proof who did it and what were their true motives. Whatever you say is orchestration of disjointed events to make sense and out the fault on Pakistan or Muslims. I'm events like these you need to have bulletproof evidence. But your govt loves to use this tired old excuse every once in a while to stay in power. So pardon me if I don't sound convinced.

 

[uppercut]

I don't think you really understand the concept of innocent till proven guilty. I didn't allege Hindus perpetrated the crime. Just like you are assuming Muslims did.

Well thats what you implied when you demanded proof. And BTW there has never been a case where Hindus have indulged in such horrific acts pretending to be Muslims. So simple common sense says that it is most definitely done by Muslims. The only question was whether Indian or Pakistani Muslims.

There is no proof who did it and what were their true motives. Whatever you say is orchestration of disjointed events to make sense and out the fault on Pakistan or Muslims. I'm events like these you need to have bulletproof evidence. But your govt loves to use this tired old excuse every once in a while to stay in power. So pardon me if I don't sound convinced.

The evidence obtained from the 3 people that were neutralized by Indian Army has been made public a simple google/youtube search will give you all that info. Moreover there was a funeral in absentia for one of the killers that was held in Pakistan. And there are numerous reports where your Military and well known Jihadis are openly crying on live camera after finding themselves on the wrong side of Indian missiles. So that is as conclusive as it gets.

But anyhow .... what does "Bulletproof" evidence look like according to YOU ? Give me specifics and when has such a thing happened before.

 

[ahsan17]

Well thats what you implied when you demanded proof. And BTW there has never been a case where Hindus have indulged in such horrific acts pretending to be Muslims. So simple common sense says that it is most definitely done by Muslims. The only question was whether Indian or Pakistani Muslims.



The evidence obtained from the 3 people that were neutralized by Indian Army has been made public a simple google/youtube search will give you all that info. Moreover there was a funeral in absentia for one of the killers that was held in Pakistan. And there are numerous reports where your Military and well known Jihadis are openly crying on live camera after finding themselves on the wrong side of Indian missiles. So that is as conclusive as it gets.

But anyhow .... what does "Bulletproof" evidence look like according to YOU ? Give me specifics and when has such a thing happened before.

What was obtained from those 3 people?

Moreover there was a funeral in absentia for one of the killers that was held in Pakistan

This is new. When did this happen? Can you provide evidence? I believe the ones Indians were claiming was someone who died on the missile strikes in Pakistan.

And there are numerous reports where your Military and well known Jihadis are openly crying on live camera after finding themselves on the wrong side of Indian missiles. So that is as conclusive as it gets.

How is that even relevant?

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

conversely these considerations were not applicable to Pakistan ? Why did Pakistan agree to Ceasefire ?

because Pakistan did nt start it and Pak,s obj was to stop bigger enemy from waging long war which it did

 

[Stewie]

Well thats what you implied when you demanded proof. And BTW there has never been a case where Hindus have indulged in such horrific acts pretending to be Muslims. So simple common sense says that it is most definitely done by Muslims. The only question was whether Indian or Pakistani Muslims.



The evidence obtained from the 3 people that were neutralized by Indian Army has been made public a simple google/youtube search will give you all that info. Moreover there was a funeral in absentia for one of the killers that was held in Pakistan. And there are numerous reports where your Military and well known Jihadis are openly crying on live camera after finding themselves on the wrong side of Indian missiles. So that is as conclusive as it gets.

But anyhow .... what does "Bulletproof" evidence look like according to YOU ? Give me specifics and when has such a thing happened before.

There is absolutely zero proof. Nothing was ever shared with Pakistan or the rest of the world. It's all just Indian govt standard BS they always pull on such occasions. When Pakistan allege Indian involvement they always ask for proof or cry about what international authority or court believes Pakistan. T
But when it comes to them, Indians believe somehow no matter what they say will be taken at face value and will be the truth. The Indian citizens themselves such as yourself are the biggest chat in this situation who fall for this hook line and sinker. India can't prove anybody's Involvement. You guys can't protect your own borders or tourists hot spot where allegedly Pakistanis can infiltrate and cause mass casualties and there is zero response from authorities for hours. Everybody was on vacation.

Yet somehow they know through magic or some highly advanced secret Indian tech who the perps were and they were Pakistanis and now the Indian govt knows their names as well. By the way the names changed a few times as well. But nobody was ever caught.

Now they gotta make someone a patsy to make them look good so they will sell you their modi Kool aid which you guys will lap up while watching Bollywood style Indian media that also told you your navy had destroyed Pakistanis sea ports and Lahore and Islamabad.


Keep drinking that Kool aid. Never ask for solid proof.

 

[ahsan17]

There is absolutely zero proof. Nothing was ever shared with Pakistan or the rest of the world. It's all just Indian govt standard BS they always pull on such occasions. When Pakistan allege Indian involvement they always ask for proof or cry about what international authority or court believes Pakistan. T
But when it comes to them, Indians believe somehow no matter what they say will be taken at face value and will be the truth. The Indian citizens themselves such as yourself are the biggest chat in this situation who fall for this hook line and sinker. India can't prove anybody's Involvement. You guys can't protect your own borders or tourists hot spot where allegedly Pakistanis can infiltrate and cause mass casualties and there is zero response from authorities for hours. Everybody was on vacation.

Yet somehow they know through magic or some highly advanced secret Indian tech who the perps were and they were Pakistanis and now the Indian govt knows their names as well. By the way the names changed a few times as well. But nobody was ever caught.

Now they gotta make someone a patsy to make them look good so they will sell you their modi Kool aid which you guys will lap up while watching Bollywood style Indian media that also told you your navy had destroyed Pakistanis sea ports and Lahore and Islamabad.


Keep drinking that Kool aid. Never ask for solid proof.

Yeah, when India is accused of terrorism their standard of proof is that UN must have accepted Indian state involvement (even though UN never accepted Pakistani state involvement for attacks in India), or some something along those lines. But when Pakistan is accused, they want every one to try to put 2 and 2 together (and I am using "2 and 2" very loosely because that's it appears like a 2 and 2 to them but no one else).

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

conversely these considerations were not applicable to Pakistan ? Why did Pakistan agree to Ceasefire ?

Pak Being a Smaller Country Economically and Militarily , If its able to stop India from waging long war especially after India desyroyed ( not damaged ) our airbases , aircrafts , defensive equipment , calling out our N bluff ( All indian Irrational claims ) without conceding anything politically or Geo Graphically after such Huge Indian Adventure ( N bluff being called out ) should be a win for Pak. the fact that Indian army chief and Defence Minister still need to threat Pak militarily means Ind did nt achieve its objectives in May . its a logical conclusion

i wil give you example of Israel thats waging war on Hamas. To agree on ceasfire , its putting forward demands and terms . Trump has 20 odd points plan on which Hamas has to agree. I do not Remember India making even 1 point Demand to stop the war or Trump asking Pak to agree on Indian demands since you guys won everything.

 

[uppercut]

because Pakistan did nt start it and Pak,s obj was to stop bigger enemy from waging long war which it did

What do you mean you didn't start it .... the killers of Pehalgam were all Pakistani you can keep denying all you want but it ain't going to change reality or the official Indian position and there is nothing you can do about it. So the objective from Indian side was to inflict disproportionate damage to their handlers and their infrastructure which was achieved on Day1 of War and despite two weeks advance notice. Your Military could not do a thing about it.

The second ancillary objective was to keep escalating if Pakistan did not stop which was also accomplished. Your own minister is on record where he says Marco Rubio was lamenting his inability to force India to accept ceasefire ( implying that your DGMO made the call to his Indian counterpart stop hostilities). And don't forget that the Indus water treaty is still suspended despite nuclear threats.

The third objective was to call the Nuclear bluff which again was accomplished as is clearly evident despite massive damage to your military bases ( including Nuclear storage facility at Kirana Hills) and most importantly severe loss of personnel and hardware. For example it took 4+ months to repair the Rahim Yar Khan base which is very simple and obvious indicator of the sort of damage that the same missile caused when it made a direct hit on Bholari, Sukkur, Jacobabad etc ( all captured in hi res images )​

Now you can keep repeating the ludicrous 6-0 narrative ( heck round it up and make it 10-0 if you want ) but the reality of modern warfare is that a few downed jets does not imply that the war was lost. Go take a look at how many jets the US lost in the War against a rag-tag Iraqi army. While you are at it go look at how many jets the IAF lost in the 1971 war vs PAF and who actually won the war.

 

[uppercut]

There is absolutely zero proof. Nothing was ever shared with Pakistan or the rest of the world. It's all just Indian govt standard BS they always pull on such occasions. When Pakistan allege Indian involvement they always ask for proof or cry about what international authority or court believes Pakistan. T
But when it comes to them, Indians believe somehow no matter what they say will be taken at face value and will be the truth. The Indian citizens themselves such as yourself are the biggest chat in this situation who fall for this hook line and sinker. India can't prove anybody's Involvement. You guys can't protect your own borders or tourists hot spot where allegedly Pakistanis can infiltrate and cause mass casualties and there is zero response from authorities for hours. Everybody was on vacation.

Yet somehow they know through magic or some highly advanced secret Indian tech who the perps were and they were Pakistanis and now the Indian govt knows their names as well. By the way the names changed a few times as well. But nobody was ever caught.

Now they gotta make someone a patsy to make them look good so they will sell you their modi Kool aid which you guys will lap up while watching Bollywood style Indian media that also told you your navy had destroyed Pakistanis sea ports and Lahore and Islamabad.


Keep drinking that Kool aid. Never ask for solid proof.

Thats why I asked you what does "Bulletproff" evidence looks like according to YOU. Can you spell it out ? And who is going to adjudicate and rule on the authenticity of the evidence ... Supreme court in Islamabad ?

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

What do you mean you didn't start it .... the killers of Pehalgam were all Pakistani you can keep denying all you want but it ain't going to change reality or the official Indian position and there is nothing you can do about it. So the objective from Indian side was to inflict disproportionate damage to their handlers and their infrastructure which was achieved on Day1 of War and despite two weeks advance notice. Your Military could not do a thing about it.

The second ancillary objective was to keep escalating if Pakistan did not stop which was also accomplished. Your own minister is on record where he says Marco Rubio was lamenting his inability to force India to accept ceasefire ( implying that your DGMO made the call to his Indian counterpart stop hostilities). And don't forget that the Indus water treaty is still suspended despite nuclear threats.

The third objective was to call the Nuclear bluff which again was accomplished as is clearly evident despite massive damage to your military bases ( including Nuclear storage facility at Kirana Hills) and most importantly severe loss of personnel and hardware. For example it took 4+ months to repair the Rahim Yar Khan base which is very simple and obvious indicator of the sort of damage that the same missile caused when it made a direct hit on Bholari, Sukkur, Jacobabad etc ( all captured in hi res images )​

Now you can keep repeating the ludicrous 6-0 narrative ( heck round it up and make it 10-0 if you want ) but the reality of modern warfare is that a few downed jets does not imply that the war was lost. Go take a look at how many jets the US lost in the War against a rag-tag Iraqi army. While you are at it go look at how many jets the IAF lost in the 1971 war vs PAF and who actually won the war.

Read post 62 again

After Ceasfire happened , You can trim down the " Objectives " to make it look like victory. who are you fooling?

if roles were reversed , and Pak was economically and Militraliy superior , and took on endeavor to call out India's N bluff , Pak would nt trim down its objectives to just doing disporpotionate damage only You would see Pak demandind India to vacate IOJK to stop war. Going as far as calling out N buff should mean something

 

[uppercut]

Read post 62 again

After Ceasfire happened , You can trim down the " Objectives " to make it look like victory. who are you fooling?

if roles were reversed , and Pak was economically and Militraliy superior , and took on endeavor to call out India's N bluff , Pak would nt trim down its objectives to just doing disporpotionate damage only You would see Pak demandind India to vacate IOJK to stop war. Going as far as calling out N buff should mean something

What do you mean "Trimmed" down ? Indian military officials are on record right after Day1 saying that their objectives have been accomplished and they do not intend to take any further military action provided Pak did not escalate. But if they did escalate then the response would be disproportionate which it was and is now visible for everyone to see in the form of videos and satellite images.

 

[uppercut]

What was obtained from those 3 people?



This is new. When did this happen? Can you provide evidence? I believe the ones Indians were claiming was someone who died on the missile strikes in Pakistan.



How is that even relevant?

A Satellite phone which contained all incriminating evidence of their ID's plus they did a ballistic match on the weapons found on these guys to the bullets from the Pehalgam crime scene.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

What do you mean "Trimmed" down ? Indian military officials are on record right after Day1 saying that their objectives have been accomplished and they do not intend to take any further military action provided Pak did not escalate. But if they did escalate then the response would be disproportionate which it was and is now visible for everyone to see in the form of videos and satellite images.

again you are ignoring the logic

whats on record and what logic dictates are entirely different things. you can Believe Indian Military. we do not. So make this conversation happen , we need to apply logic and rationality to events rather than what was said on both sides

Your army chief and Defense Chief is making threats again. why? you won everything in May. and logic dictates that winning party will dictate terms or enforce its will. Since there are more threats of war , logic says you achieved nothing. Disportionate damage objective itself becomes disporptionate objective when you call out Nuclear bluff of adversary , which Means India risked Nuclear war to make this happen and then meekly agreeing to ceasfire without getting anything in return

 

[Stewie]

Thats why I asked you what does "Bulletproff" evidence looks like according to YOU. Can you spell it out ? And who is going to adjudicate and rule on the authenticity of the evidence ... Supreme court in Islamabad ?

Capture the guys and prove they were Pakistanis.


We captured your spy in Balochistan but you guys still argue he is not hours or you don't interfere there. So I am not sure what's good here. I'm as lost if you claim you are lost. But you are an idiot if you think I'll blindly believe you when you are unwilling to give an inch when we talk.

By the way, Pakistan even suggested India can use a third party to mediate and review your "evidence" but you guys didn't want to talk, you just wanted to start a war because you thought it would sell at home.

So you tell me who wants pea e here and who wants further hostilities to cont8nue. Even now after months your side is still ratcheting up the rhetoric and even took this to a cricket field.

Maybe next time have increased security at your borders and capture the Pakistanis as proof. Don't cover for your ineptitude by playing the victim.

 

[uppercut]

again you are ignoring the logic

whats on record and what logic dictates are entirely different things. you can Believe Indian Military. we do not. So make this conversation happen , we need to apply logic and rationality to events rather than what was said on both sides

Your army chief and Defense Chief is making threats again. why? you won everything in May. and logic dictates that winning party will dictate terms or enforce its will. Since there are more threats of war , logic says you achieved nothing.

Define what you mean by "Won Everything in May" what does this entail ?

Disportionate damage objective itself becomes disporptionate objective when you call out Nuclear bluff of adversary , which Means India risked Nuclear war to make this happen and then meekly agreeing to ceasfire without getting anything in return

As I said at that time the Indian Military officials thought that they had taught a lesson to Pakistan. But clearly you have a different take considering that you think India "meekly" agreed to a ceasefire according to you.

So go ahead let us know the Military damages that Pak inflicted on India which caused this supposedly meek ceasefire acceptance.

Start with 10 Rafale jets. What else ?

 

[uppercut]

Capture the guys and prove they were Pakistanis.


We captured your spy in Balochistan but you guys still argue he is not hours or you don't interfere there. So I am not sure what's good here. I'm as lost if you claim you are lost. But you are an idiot if you think I'll blindly believe you when you are unwilling to give an inch when we talk.

Yeah the ballistics match of the weapons found on these guys was rigged , so was the Satellite phone etc etc. Right ?

By the way, Pakistan even suggested India can use a third party to mediate and review your "evidence" but you guys didn't want to talk, you just wanted to start a war because you thought it would sell at home.

So you tell me who wants pea e here and who wants further hostilities to cont8nue. Even now after months your side is still ratcheting up the rhetoric and even took this to a cricket field.

Maybe next time have increased security at your borders and capture the Pakistanis as proof. Don't cover for your ineptitude by playing the victim.

All of these methods have been tried in the past . Remember Ajmal Kasab? This is why the current Indian gov does not see any point at all in discussing with Pakistan on the matter of terrorism. Heck your Field Marshall is on record calling these guys as "freedom fighters" .... and here you are lecturing me ?

Quite shocking that despite years and years of Pakistan's track record and the numerous UN designated terrorists that have been found chilling in your country you deem it rational/logical to lecture me on civilized norms of dispute resolution. There is absolutely no such thing when it comes to Pakistanis and this is the reality of it and it is completely.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Define what you mean by "Won Everything in May" what does this entail ?

It entails that India according to their Claims rendered Pak Military ineffective and that India had decisive victory to enforce its will and demands

You talk about stated objectives of Indian Military but it is not stated anywhere that India will call out N bluff yet according to Indians it happened . Now its a big claim and its repurcussions are huge , much more than India trying to send a message

As I said at that time the Indian Military officials thought that they had taught a lesson to Pakistan. But clearly you have a different take considering that you think India "meekly" agreed to a ceasefire according to you.

Indian Military officials thought? how do you know what they thought? lol

You destroyed Pak's Military defense including N Umbrella , Yet lesson was not taught apparently since you have to threaten us again. So either those things did nt happen or if they did , Course of events would be different

So go ahead let us know the Military damages that Pak inflicted on India which caused this supposedly meek ceasefire acceptance.

Start with 10 Rafale jets. What else ?

thats for you to answer since you have all those tall claims of calling out N bluff

Im not even talking about what Pak was able to do in response. Im talking about What india Supposedly did and claimed and what happened thereafter just does nt align with logic

 

[hks222]

What do you mean you didn't start it .... the killers of Pehalgam were all Pakistani you can keep denying all you want but it ain't going to change reality or the official Indian position and there is nothing you can do about it. So the objective from Indian side was to inflict disproportionate damage to their handlers and their infrastructure which was achieved on Day1 of War and despite two weeks advance notice. Your Military could not do a thing about it.

The second ancillary objective was to keep escalating if Pakistan did not stop which was also accomplished. Your own minister is on record where he says Marco Rubio was lamenting his inability to force India to accept ceasefire ( implying that your DGMO made the call to his Indian counterpart stop hostilities). And don't forget that the Indus water treaty is still suspended despite nuclear threats.

The third objective was to call the Nuclear bluff which again was accomplished as is clearly evident despite massive damage to your military bases ( including Nuclear storage facility at Kirana Hills) and most importantly severe loss of personnel and hardware. For example it took 4+ months to repair the Rahim Yar Khan base which is very simple and obvious indicator of the sort of damage that the same missile caused when it made a direct hit on Bholari, Sukkur, Jacobabad etc ( all captured in hi res images )​

Now you can keep repeating the ludicrous 6-0 narrative ( heck round it up and make it 10-0 if you want ) but the reality of modern warfare is that a few downed jets does not imply that the war was lost. Go take a look at how many jets the US lost in the War against a rag-tag Iraqi army. While you are at it go look at how many jets the IAF lost in the 1971 war vs PAF and who actually won the war.

Because they had pakistani chocolates?

 

[uppercut]

It entails that India according to their Claims rendered Pak Military ineffective and that India had decisive victory to enforce its will and demands

Context is important. When 11 air bases have been precisely targeted including a Nuclear facility it means that your Military capabilities were severely degraded. Now there is no such thing as "enforcing will and demands" as the international community will simply not let that happen due to Pakistan's geo-strategic importance and it being a very close ally of prominent World powers with deep vested interests in the region.​

You talk about stated objectives of Indian Military but it is not stated anywhere that India will call out N bluff yet according to Indians it happened . Now its a big claim and its repurcussions are huge , much more than India trying to send a message

The Indian PM himself has stated this multiple times well before the first shots were fired.

Indian Military officials thought? how do you know what they thought? lol

Because the military leaders have openly said that specifically the IAF Chief.

You destroyed Pak's Military defense including N Umbrella ,

I didn't say that nor has any Indian Military leader claimed anything remotely close to that. What they have said is that they have inflicted disproportionate damage on Pak in response to Pehalgam terror attack. Do you agree with that or not ?

Yet lesson was not taught apparently since you have to threaten us again. So either those things did nt happen or if they did , Course of events would be different

Time will tell .. what India did not anticipate was the sudden U-Turn by USA which has emboldened your Generals. This is the context behind the recent threats by Indian Generals.

thats for you to answer since you have all those tall claims of calling out N bluff

Isn't that true? Despite significant damage to numerous military facilities and suspension of the Indus Water Treaty what happened to your Nuclear threat ?

Im not even talking about what Pak was able to do in response. Im talking about What india Supposedly did and claimed and what happened thereafter just does nt align with logic

Well you claimed that India "meekly" accepted a ceasefire which implies adverse military outcomes. So go ahead lets see what caused the supposedly "meek" ceasefire acceptance.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

[]Context is important. When 11 air bases have been precisely targeted including a Nuclear facility it means that your Military capabilities were severely degraded. Now there is no such thing as "enforcing will and demands" as the international community will simply not let that happen due to Pakistan's geo-strategic importance and it being a very close ally of prominent World powers with deep vested interests in the region.[/]

now you want to hide behind Int Community ? Int community never held Pak responsible for Palgham Attack. so India went ahead and attacked Pak anyway without proving to Int community that Pak state was perpetrator of Palgham attack

so if you cant enforce will or demands for whatever reasons you gave above , Then military damages have no meaning. Pak holds importance according to your admission and Modi govt has failed to isolate Pakistan despite having much bigger economic clout than Pak. you are admitting a diplomatic defeat

The Indian PM himself has stated this multiple times well before the first shots were fired.

So political rehtoric of Indian PM is stated obj of Indian military ? Hebl also said He would isolate Pak diplomatically

Time will tell .. what India did not anticipate was the sudden U-Turn by USA which has emboldened your Generals. This is the context behind the recent threats by Indian Generals.

we have heard this many times. If you did nt anticipate the cards our Generals hold , Its your failure

Isn't that true? Despite significant damage to numerous military facilities and suspension of the Indus Water Treaty what happened to your Nuclear threat ?

again if that was true , We would be seeing different events unfold. not threats

Well you claimed that India "meekly" accepted a ceasefire which implies adverse military outcomes. So go ahead lets see what caused the supposedly "meek" ceasefire acceptance.

I did nt claim India accepted ceasfire . its a fact. it did nt happen ? Meek part i have explained already with logic , Since there is no logical answer from your end , you are just trying to flip the question on me

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have said many times that India is too cowardly to erase Pakistan from the map. I challenge even ONE Indian on these boards to dispute that, bearing in mind I have given the many reasons why this can never happen in any foreseeable future.

Take up the challenge hindutvas. Here I am.

 

[uppercut]

again if that was true , We would be seeing different events unfold. not threats

So you are saying that India did not inflict any serious Military damage by targeting 11 air bases and causing Heavy casualties and also suspending IWT ? Weren't these your red-lines ? Why did Pak run to the USA and Saudis asking them to stop the war then ?

I did nt claim India accepted ceasfire . its a fact. it did nt happen ?

Not sure what you mean by this.

Meek part i have explained already with logic , Since there is no logical answer from your end , you are just trying to flip the question on me

Where ... show me the post#


Will respond to the rest of your post later

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

So you are saying that India did not inflict any serious Military damage by targeting 11 air bases and causing Heavy casualties and also suspending IWT ? Weren't these your red-lines ? Why did Pak run to the USA and Saudis asking them to stop the war then ?

again you are questioning me lol All these claims are yours and im the one asking questions , that if all the claims were true , India would nt agree to ceasfire without any meaningful concession from Pak. Flipping the question on me again without delving into logic . When you do something like destroying your enemy's Defense and go as far out as Calling out N bluff which you believe entirely to be true..then it should have consrquences. Im Searching for those consequences but they are absent. so Im asking you since you believe those claims to be 100% correct. and you keep asking me if i believe it or not lol

IWT suspension is not red line. The day India builds infrastructure to divert Pak's Share of water , we can talk about it. Do not make imaginary red lines in your head and then assume that it was called out lol

but in this conversation im assuming that ok Pak's Red line was crossed. Im going by what you believe. Here is India's Biggest stated objective beyond Ops Sindoor or what Modi has been saying. its written in constitution of India that all of Kashmir is part of India. Last time i checked Indian Military's job is to uphold territorial integrity defined in Indian constitution. The biggest obstacle in taking back occupied ( according to you ) Kashmir has been Pak's Nuclear Umbrella . majority of Indians have been saying that for years. Indian Military removed that hurdle in May.. Yet we still occupy your territory with impunity. So if you crossed our red lines and we continue to occupy your territory , Then there is lack of logic here all im saying

 

[uppercut]

again you are questioning me lol All these claims are yours and im the one asking questions , that if all the claims were true , India would nt agree to ceasfire without any meaningful concession from Pak.

thats not how it works in the modern world. Even rag-tag outfits like Hamas and Hezbollah have existed for decades despite regular pounding by Israel which is pretty much a US proxy in the middle east. So going by your simplistic logic of "the victor not being able to impose his will on the conquered" Israel has been losing the war or atleast not able to accomplish their objective then ? Heck they couldn't even get all of their hostages freed. The same will happen to Russia. The same happened to the US in Afg where they had set out to eradicate the Taliban ... how did that work out after 20 yrs of trying ? lol

The point is modern geo-politics is extremely complicated business than the simplistic "winner takes all" nonsense that you are trying to peddle. Doesn't work like that.

Flipping the question on me again without delving into logic . When you do something like destroying your enemy's Defense and go as far out as Calling out N bluff which you believe entirely to be true..then it should have consrquences. Im Searching for those consequences but they are absent. so Im asking you since you believe those claims to be 100% correct. and you keep asking me if i believe it or not lol

Consequences for who ? So at this point it comes down to what YOU believe to have happened in May. Perhaps explain your take on the events.

IWT suspension is not red line. The day India builds infrastructure to divert Pak's Share of water , we can talk about it. Do not make imaginary red lines in your head and then assume that it was called out lol

IWT is not just about water release, it includes providing timely data about when and how much water is to be released which in itself will cause serious damage to your economy. What did your army do when India flooded vast swathes of your territory just last month... absolutely nothing other than crying and writing letters to Indian Gov. So there ... thats another evidence of calling your N Bluff by crossing your Red-Lines. How did that happen according to you ? ( Again this does not mean you no-longer have Nukes ... so spare me that bulldust).

but in this conversation im assuming that ok Pak's Red line was crossed. Im going by what you believe. Here is India's Biggest stated objective beyond Ops Sindoor or what Modi has been saying. its written in constitution of India that all of Kashmir is part of India. Last time i checked Indian Military's job is to uphold territorial integrity defined in Indian constitution. The biggest obstacle in taking back occupied ( according to you ) Kashmir has been Pak's Nuclear Umbrella . majority of Indians have been saying that for years.

The same is true for Pak army as well. Every single General including the current one keeps parroting that "Indian Kashmir is our jugular vein". so what happened to that objective ? You didnt think thru that ehh ? lol

Indian Military removed that hurdle in May.. Yet we still occupy your territory with impunity. So if you crossed our red lines and we continue to occupy your territory , Then there is lack of logic here all im saying

This is the problem ... wherein you assume things in your mind, believe that to be actual reality and start projecting that on to me and keep pretending that I said those things. The fact is NOBODY in the Indian Military has claimed that your Nuclear weapons have all been neutralized.

The reality is this: On May 10th India targeted one of your many Nuke storage facility at Kirana Hills with pin-point precision ... and the aim was to send a clear message that we are not deterred by your nukes and will infact take them out if needed. Thats a big fat red-line that was crossed and Pakistan did nothing in response. Let me know if YOU believe that this event at Kirana Hills did not happen.

 

[the Great Khan]

I have said many times that India is too cowardly to erase Pakistan from the map. I challenge even ONE Indian on these boards to dispute that, bearing in mind I have given the many reasons why this can never happen in any foreseeable future.

Take up the challenge hindutvas. Here I am.

Bro nothing changes on here. Its the same arguments. We could wipe out their whole airforce and they'll still deny it. We could level every s400 battery and they'll say it was fake news. The constant back and forth is such a waste of time. I think in this case we should just be the bigger men and let them bark. Everybody who analyses this stuff knows what happened. There is a reason the geopolitical landscape has changed so dramatically. Its not a coincidence. The sheer panic in the French aerospace industry just tells you enough. So let them say what they want. They know what happened to them.