What's new

Will Steve Smith/Virat Kohli surpass Sachin Tendulkar in stature as batters by the time they retire?

tyron_woodley said:
sachin was a choker.
Good player but lacked the mentality to be the best. He was selfish and went for personal glory. Something I see in babar too. I am afraid barber's ceiling would only be around tendulkar's level. Although tenda is a great player he never managed to perform when it mattered in tests.

If tenda had kohli's mentality and put the team above himself then he would have been a GOAT. I hope babar doesn't follow in his footsteps.
Click to expand...
Someone has just started watching test cricket. Congrats! Better late than never!
 
andy0204 said:
Tendulkar was averaging 60 in tests at one point something that Kohli has to achieve.
Till 185 tests he averaged 56 because of his last 2 year's his average gone down to 53,he should have retired after worldcup.
Click to expand...
He was averaging almost 57 till his 178th test.

That average was attained by scoring all impact less runs.
 
Based upon matches it take to make a century there are quite a lot of batsmen who have better ratio and even would have played 75% of Tendulkar's matches they would have been ahead by a good margin.
Click to expand...
lol, you make it sound as if it is so easy. So many great bats tried to better Tendulkar's records but couldn't and had to eventually retire from test cricket. The likes of Ponting, Kallis, Sanga, Cook etc come to mind.

BTW how did you arrive at that figure of 75%? Just arbitrarily or you did some calculations to arrive at that figure? So you mean to say had those 'better' bats than Tendulkar played 150 tests, they'd have broken his test tons' record? Well, the likes of Ponting, Kallis, Cook, & Dravid played more than 150 tests and still couldn't better his records.

Test cricket especially isn't played on spreadsheets and is way more difficult to master than to extrapolate the tons scored by someone after playing X no. of tests.....

If what you say is correct then the likes of Kallis, Ponting or Sanga or even Cook could've easily broken most of his records but couldn't as its not easy to motivate yourself to arrive at nets daily for so many years. To indulge in the same taxing drills, day after day after day, is easier to say than to follow yourself.

Longevity, with performance, at least on this forum is such an underrated aspect of a cricketer's repertoire...
 
andy0204 said:
Tendulkar was averaging 60 in tests at one point something that Kohli has to achieve.
Till 185 tests he averaged 56 because of his last 2 year's his average gone down to 53,he should have retired after worldcup.
Click to expand...

when did he play a match winning innings in tests cricket?
 
MP2011 said:
lol, you make it sound as if it is so easy. So many great bats tried to better Tendulkar's records but couldn't and had to eventually retire from test cricket. The likes of Ponting, Kallis, Sanga, Cook etc come to mind.

BTW how did you arrive at that figure of 75%? Just arbitrarily or you did some calculations to arrive at that figure? So you mean to say had those 'better' bats than Tendulkar played 150 tests, they'd have broken his test tons' record? Well, the likes of Ponting, Kallis, Cook, & Dravid played more than 150 tests and still couldn't better his records.

Test cricket especially isn't played on spreadsheets and is way more difficult to master than to extrapolate the tons scored by someone after playing X no. of tests.....

If what you say is correct then the likes of Kallis, Ponting or Sanga or even Cook could've easily broken most of his records but couldn't as its not easy to motivate yourself to arrive at nets daily for so many years. To indulge in the same taxing drills, day after day after day, is easier to say than to follow yourself.

Longevity, with performance, at least on this forum is such an underrated aspect of a cricketer's repertoire...
Click to expand...

has tenda ever averaged 65 like smith at any point of his career for atleast a year?

smith is GOAT.
 
tyron_woodley said:
again. When did he play match winning innings for india vs australia and south africa. 2 of the better teams of his time. away from home?
Click to expand...

So what you mean to ask is when did he score Test centuries in Australia and South Africa and then proceed to take the 20 opposition wickets away from home?
 
Both of them are legends but in my opinion no, they can't surpass SRT's stature.

They may surpass him as far as some statistics (wins/100s etc) are concerned but overall it'll be really hard for anyone to surpass SRT's "stature" (which is something subjective and can't be quantified).
 
Last edited:
WhenSultansBowled said:
Both of them are legends but in my opinion no, they can't surpass SRT's stature.

They may surpass him as far as some statistics (wins/100s etc) are concerned but overall it'll be really hard for anyone to surpass SRT's "stature" (which is something subjective and can't be quantified).
Click to expand...
These newbies.....
 
MP2011 said:
These newbies.....
Click to expand...

Everyone starts watching cricket after a certain age. But what's foolish is for them to put down players they didn't watch. The better thing for those kids to do is to put a zip of how X, Y, and Z players were so inferior to the player I've been watching.
 
Sachin is the best batsmen from the post war era, his only closest challenger IMO comes in the form of Viv Richards. Kohli may one day surpass him but as of the moment he has not.

I think some of my fellow posters underestimate how difficult it is stay on top of your game in cricket especially for a period of over 24 years. Sachin‘s longevity was because he was at the top of his game throughout his career.
 
Hitman said:
So what you mean to ask is when did he score Test centuries in Australia and South Africa and then proceed to take the 20 opposition wickets away from home?
Click to expand...

when did he play a match winning innings?it's a simple question. Has he ever produced in the second innings? batting second. Not about test centuries. Has he ever carried india to glory away from home vs australia and south africa whilst batting last? has he ever chased a second innings total down vs those aforementioned teams?
 
ikky47 said:
Sachin is the best batsmen from the post war era, his only closest challenger IMO comes in the form of Viv Richards. Kohli may one day surpass him but as of the moment he has not.

I think some of my fellow posters underestimate how difficult it is stay on top of your game in cricket especially for a period of over 24 years. Sachin‘s longevity was because he was at the top of his game throughout his career.
Click to expand...
no he isn't. He just had longevity. His peak form was never as great as smith. He always failed in big games.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Smith averages close to 65 right now in tests
Kohli averages 60+ in ODIs, 50+ in T20i

Going purely by averages, it seems both of these batsmen have put themselves in a very good position to end up being remembered as greater batsmen than Tendulkar in one particular format.

Do you think things will go this way for next 5-10 years in favour of them.



Both formats combined though, it seems Tendulkar will still remain a phenomena. He was able to dominate tests and ODIs simultaneously which these two have not been able to. Kohli almost there but still well behidn Smith in tests. Smith is a very good LOI batsman but still well behind Kohli and quite a few other star LOI batsmen.
Click to expand...

In terms of statistics, yes.

In terms of prestige, not in a million years.
 
tyron_woodley said:
when did he play a match winning innings?it's a simple question. Has he ever produced in the second innings? batting second. Not about test centuries. Has he ever carried india to glory away from home vs australia and south africa whilst batting last? has he ever chased a second innings total down vs those aforementioned teams?
Click to expand...

And my question is how does a team win Test matches? By their batsman scoring countless runs, or by their bowlers knocking off the 20 opposition wickets?

So the next question has another criteria added now, not only he needs to win Test matches but he has to do so against Australia and South Africa away from home chasing in the 4th innings while remaining unbeaten. Kid, tell me how many times Kohli has done it so far, then I'll reply.
 
tyron_woodley said:
no he isn't. He just had longevity. His peak form was never as great as smith. He always failed in big games.
Click to expand...

What's your criteria of big games? Like the ones where Kohli has successfully managed to choke so far in his career?
 
Hitman said:
What's your criteria of big games? Like the ones where Kohli has successfully managed to choke so far in his career?
Click to expand...

big games are australia, England, n.z and south africa.

kohli choked where exactly? kohli bleeds for his country unlike that twerp tenda. Tenda was very selfish and played for himself. Tenda may be more talented but he lacked the heart to be the greatest of all time. He could have been but he clearly isn't.

I don't recall tenda ever scoring vs australia or south africa when it mattered. Can someone enlighten me about this so called meastro's feats?

he never comes close to what smith achieved.
smith scored centuries in india vs india and literally carried his team single handedly albeit in a losing cause because india were just too strong. However he won them a test in 2017 when india never even looked like losing a single test for a long time. He played a match winning innings vs the toughest home team in the most difficult conditions and that test alone sets him apart from his contemporaries.

Smith performed in England and won them test matches abroad single handedly.

Did the same vs n.z. He dint perform vs south africa but soon he will have chance to fix that.

what did tenda do?
 
Even at India's absolute peak in 2010 he failed to chase vs south africa who were arguably the toughest team to beat at the time along with india. They drew the series in 2011 again cause of tenda's selfishness.

I am not denying that he is a great player. He is but not the best. smith and several others are ahead.

kalis, Viv Richards, Pietersen (yes matchwinner), dravid, AB de villiers, Graeme smith were all better than tenda.
 
tyron_woodley said:
AB de villiers, Graeme smith were all better than tenda.
Click to expand...

Both overrated. Smith averages like 42 when you take out Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and WI while AbDV is idolized due to his entertainment and isn't one of the top 5 batsmen of this decade. Not to mention a bit soft.

I'm an aussie and am indifferent towards Sachin as a person (don't dislike him but do not like him to the level of someone like Dravid) but have always seen him as a true genius. Only Smith could be considered his equal of test cricketers at the moment, but I would still have Sachin in a AT XI.
 
andy0204 said:
I think it's generation problem,I guarantee next generation kids will tell that Kohli was useless.
Click to expand...

It’s annoying when pimple faced teenagers who started following the game a couple of years ago start lecturing you how players whom he did not even watch were this and that. No complaints though, they end up humiliating themselves.
 
Some proper slush puppy comments in this thread.

I witnessed Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar debut on the international scene in 1989. Long story short, SRT never appealed to me, I never liked him, [I was more a Gavasakar, Dravid, and Kambli fan], but let the objective record reflect, SRT smoked some of the best bowlers known to the game, though in his prime [90s] he never really faced the legendary and deadly Wasim and Waqar, but none the less, back in his day it was not so much a batsmen’s game as it is today, but as much as it pains me to say this, SRT was the best Test batsmen during the 90s. SRT’s ultimate asset was his balance at the crease, which, was thanks to his low centre of gravity due to his height. He was naturally balanced.

Forget the stats. SRT was the most famous Indian on the planet during his peak. His *Stature* in India rose as such. SRT put India on the map after the British, in conjunction with the rise of Internet and Social media in India, hence why according to Indians, no Indian comes close to the empyrean status other than SRT, not even Gandhi. As such SRT is considered a God in India and his contribution, eternal. India repaid his sacrifice with the world cup 2011 – it was all for SRT – his dream.

SRT was playing cricket when most of you were not born or when you had your mama wipe your nose. Kohli, Smith, or any other player can score 10x times the runs, 10x the stats, but they will never hold a candle to the stature and prestige of SRT as far as Indian history goes.

Oh interesting fact, Waqar Younis debuted in the same Test match as SRT. SRT ended up with a bloody nose, maybe this is why SRT never really faced the 2 Ws in the 90s? Who knows.
 
Last edited:
Technics 1210 said:
Some proper slush puppy comments in this thread.

I witnessed Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar debut on the international scene in 1989. Long story short, SRT never appealed to me, I never liked him, [I was more a Gavasakar, Dravid, and Kambli fan], but let the objective record reflect, SRT smoked some of the best bowlers known to the game, though in his prime [90s] he never really faced the legendary and deadly Wasim and Waqar, but none the less, back in his day it was not so much a batsmen’s game as it is today, but as much as it pains me to say this, SRT was the best Test batsmen during the 90s. SRT’s ultimate asset was his balance at the crease, which, was thanks to his low centre of gravity due to his height. He was naturally balanced.

Forget the stats. SRT was the most famous Indian on the planet during his peak. His *Stature* in India rose as such. SRT put India on the map after the British, in conjunction with the rise of Internet and Social media in India, hence why according to Indians, no Indian comes close to the empyrean status other than SRT, not even Gandhi. As such SRT is considered a God in India and his contribution, eternal. India repaid his sacrifice with the world cup 2011 – it was all for SRT – his dream.

SRT was playing cricket when most of you were not born or when you had your mama wipe your nose. Kohli, Smith, or any other player can score 10x times the runs, 10x the stats, but they will never hold a candle to the stature and prestige of SRT as far as Indian history goes.

Oh interesting fact, Waqar Younis debuted in the same Test match as SRT. SRT ended up with a bloody nose, maybe this is why SRT never really faced the 2 Ws in the 90s? Who knows.
Click to expand...
Well written.

These new born babies don't even know who Tendulkar was during his 24-yrs rein in world cricket. Kohlis or Smiths could never ever come close to him.
 
MP2011 said:
Well written.

These new born babies don't even know who Tendulkar was during his 24-yrs rein in world cricket. Kohlis or Smiths could never ever come close to him.
Click to expand...

he never said he was the best player lol. He only mentioned that he put india on the map. He made crickrt famous in india. That's about it. In terms of ability to perform a match winning innings he is still behind several players in tests. Great player but not the best.
 
Well done Pakistan, finally it seems Smith would least be able to hurt any opposition
 
tyron_woodley said:
when did he play a match winning innings in tests cricket?
Click to expand...

That he has played significantly fewer number of test match winning innings considering he played 200 test matches is true and difficult to contest. But then it's difficult to win test matches all by yourself. A corresponding argument could be - how many 5 wicket halls did Wasim Akram take against Australia or SA to win matches? Answer is zero. Tkar would still have some centuries in winning causes in Aus and SA, m sure most of Pakistan greats won't have many 5-fers in winning against Australia or SA.
 
relative to their competition, smith will surpass Sachin in tests...neither will surpass Sachin in ODIs
 
In tests unless smith's batting falls off a cliff he will be considered better than anyone not named don bradman but overall he isn't going to compare with tendulkar given how mediocre he is LoI's. Kohli is a better odi player but tendulkar beats him in tests and kohli being the choker he is in world cups means he too overall isn't a better player than tendulkar.
 
Bradman >> Gavaskar >> Hanif >> Zahir Abbas >> Sachin + Lara + Ponting > Kohli/Smithy .

As such it is wrong to compare players from 2 generations.

Today avg total is 320-400/day. Earlier 240-250/day.

Cricket has changed, pitches have become flatter, drop in pitches are easy to play.

Antigua is dead, Perth is dead, Mohali is dead, even Auckland and Durban is high scoring pitch.
 
In the end it's all a personal opinion. There's no doubt SRT was a champion batsman. So were Don, Viv or Lara etc.

Both VK and Smith will be an inspiration for youngsters in decades to come, as is SRT for the current generation.

I think, only someone who has watched SRT, Smith and Kohli's career unflod can provide a proper comparison.
 
jagatk said:
In tests unless smith's batting falls off a cliff he will be considered better than anyone not named don bradman but overall he isn't going to compare with tendulkar given how mediocre he is LoI's. Kohli is a better odi player but tendulkar beats him in tests and kohli being the choker he is in world cups means he too overall isn't a better player than tendulkar.
Click to expand...

Smith is no mediocre in ODIs. He has a world cup semi final century and a world cup final fifty under his belt. Kohli can score all the ODI runs he wants against WI and Bdesh in meaningless bilateral series, he's no good when it comes to big matches.
 
sunny85 said:
Bradman >> Gavaskar >> Hanif >> Zahir Abbas >> Sachin + Lara + Ponting > Kohli/Smithy .

As such it is wrong to compare players from 2 generations.

Today avg total is 320-400/day. Earlier 240-250/day.

Cricket has changed, pitches have become flatter, drop in pitches are easy to play.

Antigua is dead, Perth is dead, Mohali is dead, even Auckland and Durban is high scoring pitch.
Click to expand...

This is ridiculous. The 2000-2015 period were the flattest pitches ever, closely followed by the 30's and 40's. This is corroborated by decade by decade batting averages. Smith and Kohli have made lots of runs in difficult conditions against good bowlers.

Also, Zaheer Abbas. The bloke averaged 18 against WI and 17 against NZ. He was scared of fast bowling and cashed in. Pakistan batsmen averaged 47 at home and the bowlers averaged 37. Pakistan drew 71% of their tests. The pitches were complete roads. But no,no Zaheer Abbas is greater than Sachin, Smith, Kohli, Lara etc. I could name 30 batsmen since 1980 who have been significantly better than him
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pakistan has been able to keep Smith quite by not allowing him to bat.. Brilliant strategy!
 
Let see at their end of the career, we have seen what happened to pointing , amla ,sehwag at end of their career when the hand eye coordination deserted him, same thing will happen to Smith and virat , how they adjust at end of the career will determine their greatness it's easy to say this and that when a batsmen is at their peak by comparing to a batsmen who is finished already
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fastest to 7000 Test runs:<br><br>Steve Smith 126 innings<br>W Hammond 131 innings<br>V Sehwag 134 innings<br>S Tendulkar 136 innings<br>G Sobers/K Sangakkara/V Kohli 138 innings<br>M Yousuf 139 innings<br>S Gavaskar/V Richards 140 innings<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1200641889059397632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
I dont know how many of you have seen Lara and Tendulkar bat. If only Averages/Strike rates are to be considered for greatness then the discussion is futile.

People do need to consider the pressure Sachin had in his whole career, whole of India's batting was dependent on him, I dont think anyone can even perform so well with so much pressure in whole career. The bowling attacks both Sachin and Lara have played against and the pitches then were very tough considered to these times.

India's better performances in ODI world cup were all due to Sachin. People here are saying that DeVillers is already better than him? I dont remember more than one knock out matches SA has won and AB is already better than him.

Kohli can outscore him but he cannot be better than sachin.

Smith still needs to perform few more years to be considered anywhere near ATG
 
happydavy said:
Smith is no mediocre in ODIs. He has a world cup semi final century and a world cup final fifty under his belt. Kohli can score all the ODI runs he wants against WI and Bdesh in meaningless bilateral series, he's no good when it comes to big matches.
Click to expand...

Being a big match player is all good but if you can't score in bilaterals you are mediocre because in the end those games are just once in a life time opportunities, its your bilaterals that have an impact on the average and smith's is 41, which in today's game is utter rubbish.
 
TheNeutralist said:
I dont know how many of you have seen Lara and Tendulkar bat. If only Averages/Strike rates are to be considered for greatness then the discussion is futile.

People do need to consider the pressure Sachin had in his whole career, whole of India's batting was dependent on him, I dont think anyone can even perform so well with so much pressure in whole career. The bowling attacks both Sachin and Lara have played against and the pitches then were very tough considered to these times.

India's better performances in ODI world cup were all due to Sachin. People here are saying that DeVillers is already better than him? I dont remember more than one knock out matches SA has won and AB is already better than him.

Kohli can outscore him but he cannot be better than sachin.

Smith still needs to perform few more years to be considered anywhere near ATG
Click to expand...
Do you realise that at a time we had one of the best batting orders in the history of world cricket:
Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Sachin
Ganguly
Laxman
Dhoni

How was india dependent only on sachin?
Dravid was atleast 95% the batsman sachin was and then there were others.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Do you realise that at a time we had one of the best batting orders in the history of world cricket:
Sehwag
Gambhir
Dravid
Sachin
Ganguly
Laxman
Dhoni

How was india dependent only on sachin?
Dravid was atleast 95% the batsman sachin was and then there were others.
Click to expand...

He was probably speaking of the 90's.
 
Kohli is on the brink of establishing himself as the GOAT Asian cricketer.

He is already the GOAT Asian Test captain and probably second only to Tendulkar as batsman at this point, but it is only a matter of time before he overtakes him.

Smith is the GOAT Test captain but also a cheat who was kicked out as captain. Tendulkar was a dreadful captain but he wasn’t sacked for being a cheat.

In terms of legacy, in a few years, it will be Kohli > Tendulkar > Smith.
 
Mamoon said:
Kohli is on the brink of establishing himself as the GOAT Asian cricketer.

He is already the GOAT Asian Test captain and probably second only to Tendulkar as batsman at this point, but it is only a matter of time before he overtakes him.

Smith is the GOAT Test captain but also a cheat who was kicked out as captain. Tendulkar was a dreadful captain but he wasn’t sacked for being a cheat.

In terms of legacy, in a few years, it will be Kohli > Tendulkar > Smith.
Click to expand...

Ordinary Indians will be most happy to see Kohli or any deserving guy eclipse Tendulkar's records bro but honestly speaking Tendulkar is an emotion. Even a lot of the people who did not quiet watch Tendulkar at his peak in the 1990s have started understanding his hype and stature. I have seen both Tendulkar and Kohli bat live, trust me Tendulkar was a different class. I respect Kohli because he has brought Ronaldo/Djokovic level dedication to his game. But he or Smith or any other batsman of this generation doesn't come close to Tendulkar's natural genius.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Ordinary Indians will be most happy to see Kohli or any deserving guy eclipse Tendulkar's records bro but honestly speaking Tendulkar is an emotion. Even a lot of the people who did not quiet watch Tendulkar at his peak in the 1990s have started understanding his hype and stature. I have seen both Tendulkar and Kohli bat live, trust me Tendulkar was a different class. I respect Kohli because he has brought Ronaldo/Djokovic level dedication to his game. But he or Smith or any other batsman of this generation doesn't come close to Tendulkar's natural genius.
Click to expand...

Watched both myself. Tendulkar was clearly more talented than Kohli and also more stylish. Kohli though has greater fear factor.

When he is at the crease you know that you can’t beat India, but when Tendulkar was at the crease you could still hope to win even if he doesn’t fail.

Tendulkar is indeed an emotion for Indian fans, that is why they might not be in the best position to judge him in comparison to Kohli.

As someone who has the misfortune of being a Pakistani, I would prefer to play an India with Tendulkar over an India with Kohli in any format any time.

Kohli might not surpass Tendulkar’s legacy in India, although he already has a very special place in Indian cricket history. For the rest of the world, he is on his way of eclipsing Tendulkar’s legacy.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Ordinary Indians will be most happy to see Kohli or any deserving guy eclipse Tendulkar's records bro but honestly speaking Tendulkar is an emotion. Even a lot of the people who did not quiet watch Tendulkar at his peak in the 1990s have started understanding his hype and stature. I have seen both Tendulkar and Kohli bat live, trust me Tendulkar was a different class. I respect Kohli because he has brought Ronaldo/Djokovic level dedication to his game. But he or Smith or any other batsman of this generation doesn't come close to Tendulkar's natural genius.
Click to expand...

Most of the people know Tendulkar of 2000's not 1990's,there is no doubt he was the best player in 1990's but in 2000's there were more players who performed better than him.
You should look on the both sides of a coin.
 
andy0204 said:
Most of the people know Tendulkar of 2000's not 1990's,there is no doubt he was the best player in 1990's but in 2000's there were more players who performed better than him.
You should look on the both sides of a coin.
Click to expand...

Pretty accurate post. While Sachin still was an elite player after 2000, there were a few who performed better than him. As for the 90's, he was the best batsman by a very long way.
 
On a banner day for the Australian superstar, Steve Smith has surpassed Don Bradman's 6996-run total then smashed the 7000-run barrier to break a 73-year record.

The batsman made just four runs in the Gabba victory over Pakistan last week, extending his wait to rewrite the history books.

He finally received his chance when Marnus Labuschagne fell for 162 runs on day two at Adelaide Oval.

Joining David Warner at the crease, Smith first surpassed Bradman's total once he hit the 20s.

In the next over a single became Smith's 7000th Test run, taking just 126 innings to reach the mark - five faster than Englishman Walter Hammond, who has held the record since 1946.

Bradman's infamous duck that left his average sitting on 99.94 meant he also fell four short of reaching 7000 runs, a feat he would have achieved in just 80 innings had he not fallen short at The Oval.

Smith fell for 36 runs just after the tea break, edging to Pakistan wicketkeeper Mohammad Rizwan on a bizarre and wholly unexpected attempted slog.

"Haven't seen that from Steve Smith for five or six years in Test match cricket," former Test captain Ricky Ponting said on Channel 7.

His record now sits on 7013 runs from 126 innings at an average of 63.75.

Bradman and Smith have the two highest averages in Test history for those who have played more than 20 innings, with Smith second only to Bradman.

According to former Australian Test captain Allan Border, it's the right-hander's consistency and ability to avoid successive failures that sets him apart from everyone but Bradman.

"Most people have that patch where everything goes wrong and they go through a trot," Border told AAP earlier this summer.

"I don't know if it happened to Bradman, but everyone else has had one.

"They always had a few Tests or a series where it just didn't work for them or you got the better of them.

"But Steven has just been incredible. Not just in the Ashes but his whole career. I've not quite (seen anyone else do it)."

The numbers stack up for Smith.

He has averaged less than 40 in a series just twice since his breakthrough century for Australia at the end of the 2013 Ashes.

He is still to go more than two Tests without scoring a half century for Australia, dating back to his debut as a legspinner against Pakistan in 2010.

No other batsman in the game's history has played 20 or more Tests and achieved such a feat - even Bradman went three Tests without a 50 in the 1934 Ashes.

"Whether it happens to him or if he's just got that work ethic that will keep him going for 60-runs-an-innings average I don't know. It's incredible," Border said.

"In straight out numbers, yes (he's the best since Bradman)."

https://7news.com.au/sport/cricket/...adman-and-breaks-73-year-test-record-c-582733

EKmIDX_VUAAfuaL
 
Hitman said:
Pretty accurate post. While Sachin still was an elite player after 2000, there were a few who performed better than him. As for the 90's, he was the best batsman by a very long way.
Click to expand...

It goes same to Richards as well.In Richards case there was no one competing him at that time in ODIs except Dean Jones.
 
Last edited:
We indians rate the quartet of tendulkar laxman dravid and ganguly as a more potent combo than kohli pujara rahane with vihari now blooming slowly

But I agree kohli has a bigger fear factor than tendulkar . Kohli in a way has changed the fitness culture - once Agarwal and shaw get permanent this team might become the equivalent of the West Indies team as currently it’s a subpar batting line up
 
Mamoon said:
As someone who has the misfortune of being a Pakistani, I would prefer to play an India with Tendulkar over an India with Kohli in any format any time.
.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree with this. Tendulkar punished Pakistan in ICC tournaments and a lot of big matches. Kohli has gone missing in quite a few against Pak, despite not facing Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, etc.
 
Mamoon said:
As someone who has the misfortune of being a Pakistani, I would prefer to play an India with Tendulkar over an India with Kohli in any format any time.
Click to expand...
Yeah I much would've preferred to play Tendulkar than Kohli during that 2017 series as an Aussie
 
Hitman said:
Pretty accurate post. While Sachin still was an elite player after 2000, there were a few who performed better than him. As for the 90's, he was the best batsman by a very long way.
Click to expand...

People tend to forget how good Steve Waugh was in the 90's. Averaged 53 for the decade. Performed all over the world, winning Aus series in WI, Eng, SA. Also very good in India
 
docteurmanish said:
We indians rate the quartet of tendulkar laxman dravid and ganguly as a more potent combo than kohli pujara rahane with vihari now blooming slowly

But I agree kohli has a bigger fear factor than tendulkar . Kohli in a way has changed the fitness culture - once Agarwal and shaw get permanent this team might become the equivalent of the West Indies team as currently it’s a subpar batting line up
Click to expand...

yea that's nostalgia speaking. Both combos are equally good.

only difference is dravid. Dravid is the man. What a batsman he was. one of the greatest I have ever seen in my life. Had he not played past his prime, his average would be way higher than 51. i rate him and jacques kalis as equal In battinf but kalis obviously the greatest player because he could bowl too.


rahane is severely underrated. He is an extremely good player. clutch player.
 
If we use the word "stature" it is pretty hard to overtake Sachin. Sachin was a phenomenon in the 90s. Kids all over the world adored him as he looked like a kid. NZ, Austraila, England. As a cricketer he was such an involved player. Who can forget his last over to tie a ODI, won hero cup. Played an important part in winning the famous Eden Garden test with three major wickets in the second innings. He was always up for major Test series, world cup with a lot of preparation. Probably the most inspiring cricketer world has ever seen.
 
therealAB said:
People tend to forget how good Steve Waugh was in the 90's. Averaged 53 for the decade. Performed all over the world, winning Aus series in WI, Eng, SA. Also very good in India
Click to expand...

easier to look good when you are surrounded by the best bowling lineup plus quality batsmen as well.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
If we use the word "stature" it is pretty hard to overtake Sachin. Sachin was a phenomenon in the 90s. Kids all over the world adored him as he looked like a kid. NZ, Austraila, England. As a cricketer he was such an involved player. Who can forget his last over to tie a ODI, won hero cup. Played an important part in winning the famous Eden Garden test with three major wickets in the second innings. He was always up for major Test series, world cup with a lot of preparation. Probably the most inspiring cricketer world has ever seen.
Click to expand...

yes inspiring. inspiring doesn't mean he is better. kohli is better and will go down as one of the greatest ever. I am waiting for the australia series. kohli vs smith battle will be put to rest. People are underestimating kohli lel. Very hilarious to me. He is going to shut them up so bad like the 2014 series again.
 
tyron_woodley said:
easier to look good when you are surrounded by the best bowling lineup plus quality batsmen as well.
Click to expand...

While this is true the thing with Waugh was that he performed when the pressure was on. He is like Smith on that he was not hugely prolific when Australia was easily winning, but he was incredibly clutch when the pressure was on
 
I read an article on Fox about Djokovic being probably as great a player as Federer and Nadal but not being accepted and loved as such by the fans.

Not his fault. He's probably done enough but it might never be enough.

I think Kohli/Smith also would suffer the dame fate. No matter what they do they won't be as big as Sachin. Sachin is a mountain of a man in stature
 
freelance_cricketer said:
I read an article on Fox about Djokovic being probably as great a player as Federer and Nadal but not being accepted and loved as such by the fans.

Not his fault. He's probably done enough but it might never be enough.

I think Kohli/Smith also would suffer the dame fate. No matter what they do they won't be as big as Sachin. Sachin is a mountain of a man in stature
Click to expand...

20 grand slams> 17 though. the day djokovic reaches 20 he moves ahead of federer quite comfortably. He has a superior h2h albeit due to being younger, has more masters and more ago titles overall.
 
Tests - too early to say because Sachin's biggest achievement in Tests is that he was able to do it all the way until he retired. So Smith and Kohli will have to carry on until they leave. If I had to bet, I would bet on both Kohli and Smith having strong careers all the way to the end and surpassing Sachin - because I personally don't rate Sachin as highly in tests as a lot of people do. I think he is around the 3rd/4th best test batsman to come out of India (I rate Dravid and Gavaskar above him, and Sehwag is close).

In ODIs though Sachin is legendary and Smith will never touch him. Kohli though is a beast ODI player - the best in this generation. I think he will surpass Sachin as an ODI player because I don't see him slowing down. But again, typically when people argue Sachin's greatness it's on the back of prolific scoring and records of longevity - so Kohli will have to keep performing at the level he is now until he retires.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
I read an article on Fox about Djokovic being probably as great a player as Federer and Nadal but not being accepted and loved as such by the fans.

Not his fault. He's probably done enough but it might never be enough.

I think Kohli/Smith also would suffer the dame fate. No matter what they do they won't be as big as Sachin. Sachin is a mountain of a man in stature
Click to expand...

There is absolutely no doubt that there is more to Sachin than his stats. He was a one-man show and if cricket stopped in early 2000s even I would have a higher opinion of Sachin. He was a completely different player in that period - a giant in a small frame - took apart everyone that came in front of him and played fearlessly even when carrying the weight of a billion hopes. He just wasn't the same later when he quite visibly played for himself and lost that freshness that he had for so many years. Maybe age does that to you or maybe the team requirements were different - but leaving statistics out - I can watch Sachin of 90s all day long but don't enjoy his batting in mid 2000s+.
 
Sorry for triple post but I wanted to add that I do not think that winning another world cup is a requirement for Kohli to surpass anybody. You're talking about a team achievement that comes around every 4 years that most people participate in 3-4 times on average. If Sachin retired in 2010 would his legacy have been any different?

In those terms, what can help or hurt is your own performance in the biggest match of them all (i.e. a WC final/semifinal). In this department though Sachin didn't fare that well either - so why would it be held against Kohli that he doesn't win a WC? If it's the "ring" that matters, doesn't Kohli also have 1 WC win?
 
Kohlis stock has taken a hit since the world cup. He was average in it and should have turned on a different gear by the business end of it.

Smith is a nobody in ODIs as of now.

In 2020, Tendulkar still towers both Kohli and Smith as a legend of the game.

:sachin :srt
 
Overall both Kohli and Smith should collectively hang their heads in shame.

10 years of cricket.

No triple century.

No ODI double century

Not even one legendary world cup campaign

It must hurt them from inside during their time Yuvraj, Shakib, Stokes, Brathwaite have more dominant World cups and that Hitman has walked away with daddy hundreds
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Overall both Kohli and Smith should collectively hang their heads in shame.

10 years of cricket.

No triple century.

No ODI double century

Not even one legendary world cup campaign

It must hurt them from inside during their time Yuvraj, Shakib, Stokes, Brathwaite have more dominant World cups and that Hitman has walked away with daddy hundreds
Click to expand...

Smith has been good in World cups. 2019 campaign was good and in 2015 he hit century in knockouts (SF or Final I don't remember).

So he has done a commendable job and there is no need for him to hang his head in shame.

If everyone who is not as good at Sachin should hang their head in shame then only 1 or 2 people will have their head held high.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Overall both Kohli and Smith should collectively hang their heads in shame.

10 years of cricket.

No triple century.

No ODI double century

Not even one legendary world cup campaign

It must hurt them from inside during their time Yuvraj, Shakib, Stokes, Brathwaite have more dominant World cups and that Hitman has walked away with daddy hundreds
Click to expand...

Smith's 2015 world cup was one of the great WC's, scored 3 fifties in the knockout games. Better than Sachin ever did at the pointy end
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Kohlis stock has taken a hit since the world cup. He was average in it and should have turned on a different gear by the business end of it.

Smith is a nobody in ODIs as of now.

In 2020, Tendulkar still towers both Kohli and Smith as a legend of the game.

:sachin :srt
Click to expand...

Sachin has greater stature, but most people who pay keen attention to the game will realise Smith has surpassed Sachin as a test bat. More series defining performances in about a third of the tests
 
therealAB said:
Sachin has greater stature, but most people who pay keen attention to the game will realise Smith has surpassed Sachin as a test bat. More series defining performances in about a third of the tests
Click to expand...

However he did not play quality bowling as agreed by respected analysts if the vame for example Rashid Latif, Shoaib Akhtar etc

As pointed out by Shoaib Akhtar, it would take just 4 deliveries to knock his head off.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
However he did not play quality bowling as agreed by respected analysts if the vame for example Rashid Latif, Shoaib Akhtar etc

As pointed out by Shoaib Akhtar, it would take just 4 deliveries to knock his head off.
Click to expand...

hahaha Akhtar respected analyst. Sachin played good bowling in 90's, but pies bowlers on flat tracks in 00's. There are at least 6 bowlers Smith has faced who will go down as ATG's, plus ATG bowlers in their own conditions like Ashwin, Jadeja, Philander
 
Smith has not yet dominated an ATG bowler. He's survived them. As a survivor he will be known among the greatest along with Dravid, Atherton, Kirsten.

But Smith isn't boss man of the level of Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Viv, Lara

Kohli also has not bossed a great bowler in test cricket yet. Although in LOIs he's taken down Rabada in a way he's scarred Rabada for life. This is while ignoring Steyn whom Kohli dominated but he is not a great LOI bowler.at best he is Javagal Srinath of South Africa in that format
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Smith has not yet dominated an ATG bowler. He's survived them. As a survivor he will be known among the greatest along with Dravid, Atherton, Kirsten.

But Smith isn't boss man of the level of Bradman, Tendulkar, Sobers, Viv, Lara

Kohli also has not bossed a great bowler in test cricket yet. Although in LOIs he's taken down Rabada in a way he's scarred Rabada for life. This is while ignoring Steyn whom Kohli dominated but he is not a great LOI bowler.at best he is Javagal Srinath of South Africa in that format
Click to expand...

steyn is a very good odi bowler. complete bowler. he averages 25.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

atreus
  • Article Article
Viv Richards and Sachin Tendulkar — are they really far apart statistically?
Replies
7
Views
651
atreus
atreus
Buffet
Kumar Sangakkara versus Virat Kohli in the Test format
2 3
Replies
177
Views
7K
Hawkeye
H
Mamoon
[PICTURES] Is Joe Root’s reputation in danger due to Indian propaganda?
9 10 11
Replies
845
Views
25K
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
Are Yashasvi Jaiswal and Rishabh Pant the next hype machines for India?
2 3
Replies
210
Views
5K
mominsaigol
mominsaigol
MenInG
Comparison between Babar Azam, Sachin Tendulkar & Virat Kohli at the same point in their ODI careers
2 3
Replies
189
Views
15K
AMSS
A
Back
Top