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Will Steve Smith/Virat Kohli surpass Sachin Tendulkar in stature as batters by the time they retire?

Real competition will be decided how smith and kohli approach and modify their game when age catch up to them , don't forget that pointing ,Amla all other who scored many runs during their peak , cannot keep up when age catch up with them , this is especially going to be difficult for smith since his batting revolves around hand eye co ordination
 
Sachin Tendulkar Was Weak Against Inswing, Virat Kohli Will Surpass Him: Sarfraz Nawaz

Drawing comparisons between Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli, former Pakistan cricketer Sarfraz Nawaz pointed out a weakness of the former India cricketer. Nawaz said that Tendulkar always had a problem with the ball coming in and hence feels that Kohli will break all his long-standing records of most number of centuries and runs in ODIs and Tests. Also Read - Different Rules And Longevity Make Sachin Tendulkar Better ODI Batsman Than Virat Kohli, Says Gautam Gambhir

In an interview with the Indian Express, the former Pakistan international said Kohli is beyond comparison.

“Virat Kohli is undoubtedly beyond comparison. He will certainly surpass Tendulkar on all fronts. Tendulkar was weak against inswing while Kohli hardly has any flaw in his batting. Initially in his career, he would fumble against the outswingers but now he has reached the pinnacle of his batting,” he said.

https://www.india.com/sports/sachin...kohli-will-surpass-him-sarfraz-nawaz-4035771/
 
Abdullah719 said:
Sachin Tendulkar Was Weak Against Inswing, Virat Kohli Will Surpass Him: Sarfraz Nawaz

Drawing comparisons between Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli, former Pakistan cricketer Sarfraz Nawaz pointed out a weakness of the former India cricketer. Nawaz said that Tendulkar always had a problem with the ball coming in and hence feels that Kohli will break all his long-standing records of most number of centuries and runs in ODIs and Tests. Also Read - Different Rules And Longevity Make Sachin Tendulkar Better ODI Batsman Than Virat Kohli, Says Gautam Gambhir

In an interview with the Indian Express, the former Pakistan international said Kohli is beyond comparison.

“Virat Kohli is undoubtedly beyond comparison. He will certainly surpass Tendulkar on all fronts. Tendulkar was weak against inswing while Kohli hardly has any flaw in his batting. Initially in his career, he would fumble against the outswingers but now he has reached the pinnacle of his batting,” he said.

https://www.india.com/sports/sachin...kohli-will-surpass-him-sarfraz-nawaz-4035771/
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that personally. Sachin is best technical batsmen I have ever seen. I only rate Smith, Viv and a few others higher due to the mental side, in which I believe they are superior to Sachin, meaning they are better as cricket is a mental game. Kohli has a penchant for fishing expeditions which will hurt him, Sachin is better technically than him. However a strong argument can be made that Virat is better mentally
 
Abdullah719 said:
Sachin Tendulkar Was Weak Against Inswing, Virat Kohli Will Surpass Him: Sarfraz Nawaz

Drawing comparisons between Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli, former Pakistan cricketer Sarfraz Nawaz pointed out a weakness of the former India cricketer. Nawaz said that Tendulkar always had a problem with the ball coming in and hence feels that Kohli will break all his long-standing records of most number of centuries and runs in ODIs and Tests. Also Read - Different Rules And Longevity Make Sachin Tendulkar Better ODI Batsman Than Virat Kohli, Says Gautam Gambhir

In an interview with the Indian Express, the former Pakistan international said Kohli is beyond comparison.

“Virat Kohli is undoubtedly beyond comparison. He will certainly surpass Tendulkar on all fronts. Tendulkar was weak against inswing while Kohli hardly has any flaw in his batting. Initially in his career, he would fumble against the outswingers but now he has reached the pinnacle of his batting,” he said.

https://www.india.com/sports/sachin...kohli-will-surpass-him-sarfraz-nawaz-4035771/
Click to expand...

Weak against inswing sounds like a huge exaggeration, even for someone averaging 45-50, let alone for Sachin who has an uncomparable test record over 200 matches. No one in forseable future seems set to match his test feats. Maybe a guy who hasn't started playing yet will emerge and go past him in 2045-2050 something.

But Virat is a championship of this era without a doubt, the best overall easily and he should have a stellar record by the time he retires.

My guess is 14000 test runs at a batting average of 50-52 which will make him a contender for top 5 ever
 
You cannot make another Sunil Gavaskar or Sachin Tendulkar: Javed Miandad refuses to compare them with Virat Kohli

When Sunil Gavaskar retired in 1987, an Indian cricket fan feared of losing out on its idol, the thought of not being able to boast of having one of the best batsman in the world gripped everyone’s mind. It stayed for few years until the arrival of Sachin Tendulkar. After making his debut in 1989, he slowly made his presence felt in the early 90s and then captured the world with dazzling strokeplay through that decade and continued to rule world cricket in 2000s till he hanged his boots in 2013. The similar feared returned. But not as intense as Gavaskar’s retirement as by the time Sachin had retired, India had already found Virat Kohli, who like Gavaskar and Tendulkar in their times, rules world cricket and is often regarded as the best batsman currently. Naturally, just like Tendulkar drew comparisons with Gavaskar, Kohli was pitted as the next Sachin.

Pakistan legend Javed Miandad, however, believes it is unfair to compare players from different generations. In a recent video on Youtube, former Pakistan batsman Aamer Sohail had talked about how both Kohli and Miandad helped in lifting the performance of the rest of their team. But in an interview, Miandad said that it is hard to compare modern-day cricketers from players of his generation, as he played in an era where it was not easy to score runs.

Miandad said it is difficult to find another Sunil Gavaskar or Sachin Tendulkar as they were a class apart.

“If you are talking of the street fighter attitude, then I don’t think you can compare anyone from my era with the present generation. You cannot make another Sunny Gavaskar or Sachin Tendulkar. You can idolise someone but that won’t change an individual’s class or quality. You can’t compare players from different generations,” Miandad was quoted as saying by Telegraph.

Miandad, who played 124 Tests and 233 ODIs in an international career spanning close to two decades, was among the finest batsmen to have represented Pakistan. He scored 8832 runs an average of 52.57 in Test cricket and in ODIs he had 7381 runs at an average of 41.70.

Miandad said he had to face the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Richard Hadlee, Dennis Lillee, and Jeff Thomson, who bowled at a brisk pace on much faster tracks.

“Cricket was tough during my time. We had to face the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Richard Hadlee, Dennis Lillee, and Jeff Thomson. They bowled express pace and the wickets were more bouncier and faster. You had to adapt to different conditions and how quickly you acclimatised defined your class,” he added.

Commenting on the current lot of great batsmen - Virat Kohli, Steve Smith, Kane Williamson, Joe Root, and Babar Azam - Miandad maintained a similar stance of not going into comparisons.

“The nature of wickets and conditions has also changed. You can’t compare a Virat or a Steve Smith or Babar Azam… All are good but there’s still some difference in quality. The ones who deliver consistently and in different conditions go on to become greats,” he further said.

The former Pakistan captain and head coach, however, lauded Virat Kohli for his consistency in all three formats. Kohli averages over 50 in Test, ODIs and T20Is and is also the only cricketer to feature in top 10 of ICC rankings for batsmen in all three formats.

“It’s the lasting impression that a player leaves that helps him stand out. That is why people still talk about Gavaskar or Tendulkar. If you make four centuries and then four ducks, people will remember the centuries. No one can score a hundred in every innings and you have to learn from mistakes. Virat, in that respect, has been admirable,” Miandad signed off.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ved-miandad/story-yztA3tZbT2GtnYFK4qD8hP.html
 
Abdullah719 said:
You cannot make another Sunil Gavaskar or Sachin Tendulkar: Javed Miandad refuses to compare them with Virat Kohli

When Sunil Gavaskar retired in 1987, an Indian cricket fan feared of losing out on its idol, the thought of not being able to boast of having one of the best batsman in the world gripped everyone’s mind. It stayed for few years until the arrival of Sachin Tendulkar. After making his debut in 1989, he slowly made his presence felt in the early 90s and then captured the world with dazzling strokeplay through that decade and continued to rule world cricket in 2000s till he hanged his boots in 2013. The similar feared returned. But not as intense as Gavaskar’s retirement as by the time Sachin had retired, India had already found Virat Kohli, who like Gavaskar and Tendulkar in their times, rules world cricket and is often regarded as the best batsman currently. Naturally, just like Tendulkar drew comparisons with Gavaskar, Kohli was pitted as the next Sachin.

Pakistan legend Javed Miandad, however, believes it is unfair to compare players from different generations. In a recent video on Youtube, former Pakistan batsman Aamer Sohail had talked about how both Kohli and Miandad helped in lifting the performance of the rest of their team. But in an interview, Miandad said that it is hard to compare modern-day cricketers from players of his generation, as he played in an era where it was not easy to score runs.

Miandad said it is difficult to find another Sunil Gavaskar or Sachin Tendulkar as they were a class apart.

“If you are talking of the street fighter attitude, then I don’t think you can compare anyone from my era with the present generation. You cannot make another Sunny Gavaskar or Sachin Tendulkar. You can idolise someone but that won’t change an individual’s class or quality. You can’t compare players from different generations,” Miandad was quoted as saying by Telegraph.

Miandad, who played 124 Tests and 233 ODIs in an international career spanning close to two decades, was among the finest batsmen to have represented Pakistan. He scored 8832 runs an average of 52.57 in Test cricket and in ODIs he had 7381 runs at an average of 41.70.

Miandad said he had to face the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Richard Hadlee, Dennis Lillee, and Jeff Thomson, who bowled at a brisk pace on much faster tracks.

“Cricket was tough during my time. We had to face the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Richard Hadlee, Dennis Lillee, and Jeff Thomson. They bowled express pace and the wickets were more bouncier and faster. You had to adapt to different conditions and how quickly you acclimatised defined your class,” he added.

Commenting on the current lot of great batsmen - Virat Kohli, Steve Smith, Kane Williamson, Joe Root, and Babar Azam - Miandad maintained a similar stance of not going into comparisons.

“The nature of wickets and conditions has also changed. You can’t compare a Virat or a Steve Smith or Babar Azam… All are good but there’s still some difference in quality. The ones who deliver consistently and in different conditions go on to become greats,” he further said.

The former Pakistan captain and head coach, however, lauded Virat Kohli for his consistency in all three formats. Kohli averages over 50 in Test, ODIs and T20Is and is also the only cricketer to feature in top 10 of ICC rankings for batsmen in all three formats.

“It’s the lasting impression that a player leaves that helps him stand out. That is why people still talk about Gavaskar or Tendulkar. If you make four centuries and then four ducks, people will remember the centuries. No one can score a hundred in every innings and you have to learn from mistakes. Virat, in that respect, has been admirable,” Miandad signed off.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...ved-miandad/story-yztA3tZbT2GtnYFK4qD8hP.html
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We are proud of what Kohli has become and has achieved. He's the best of this era.

India's blessed to have dominated batting in world cricket for 4 decades now
 
India have produced one ATG player in every decade right from 70s.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
We are proud of what Kohli has become and has achieved. He's the best of this era.

India's blessed to have dominated batting in world cricket for 4 decades now
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Just no.

In the early 2000's Aus were better, around 2010 SA, Eng were much better, people always tell me on the 90's Sachin had no support, in the 80's Pak, WI were much better
 
therealAB said:
Just no.

In the early 2000's Aus were better, around 2010 SA, Eng were much better, people always tell me on the 90's Sachin had no support, in the 80's Pak, WI were much better
Click to expand...

Talking particularly about having the best batsman in the world.

Since 1970s, India has been the proud nation to have ownership over the greatest batsman in the world.

It's been 5 decades of hegemony at the top for India with Gavaskar ruling the 1970-80, Tendulkar rulling 19902-2000s and now Kohli having ruled 2010s and looking quite comfortable to rule most of 2020.

This is the legacy of Indian cricket.
 
therealAB said:
Just no.

In the early 2000's Aus were better, around 2010 SA, Eng were much better, people always tell me on the 90's Sachin had no support, in the 80's Pak, WI were much better
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England? no. They got wrecked in pakistam and Sri Lanka before touring india. They beat an ageing, past it, decrepit indian team.
SA is questionable. They had the extra all rounder which made them more complete. In terms of pure batsmen, india were on par with them.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Talking particularly about having the best batsman in the world.

Since 1970s, India has been the proud nation to have ownership over the greatest batsman in the world.

It's been 5 decades of hegemony at the top for India with Gavaskar ruling the 1970-80, Tendulkar rulling 19902-2000s and now Kohli having ruled 2010s and looking quite comfortable to rule most of 2020.

This is the legacy of Indian cricket.
Click to expand...

With Prithvi Shaw and Shubhman Gill,new talent is there as well.
 
Before Gavaskar, India had Vijay Hazare and Vijay Merchant both with huge potential but they didn't played enough.

But since 70s, India had

Gavaskar
Tendulkar
Dravid
Kohli
Sehwag
Dhoni
Kapil
Kumble

All of which make a strong case for 15 man Asia all time squad.
 
tyron_woodley said:
England? no. They got wrecked in pakistam and Sri Lanka before touring india. They beat an ageing, past it, decrepit indian team.
SA is questionable. They had the extra all rounder which made them more complete. In terms of pure batsmen, india were on par with them.
Click to expand...

In 2010. Kallis >>> Tendulkar
Amla was the best bat in the world for a period, >> Dravid during this time
Smith was better than Sehwag in 10's
De Villiers >> Laxman

SA Way better

India was ageing, past it. Exactly, in the early 10's they were not a top batting team
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Talking particularly about having the best batsman in the world.

Since 1970s, India has been the proud nation to have ownership over the greatest batsman in the world.

It's been 5 decades of hegemony at the top for India with Gavaskar ruling the 1970-80, Tendulkar rulling 19902-2000s and now Kohli having ruled 2010s and looking quite comfortable to rule most of 2020.

This is the legacy of Indian cricket.
Click to expand...

Are you talking test only.

If so, Kohli didn't rule the 10's. Otherwise, Gavaskar didn't rule the 70's, 80's. Chappell was a better test bat than Sunil anyway, both were > Viv

Sachin didn't rule that whole period. For the majority of the 00's, Ponting, Dravid, Lara were better. He was the best player in the world in the 90's though. You couldn't say India batting dominated as he was their only good batsmen during this period
 
Ab Fan said:
With Prithvi Shaw and Shubhman Gill,new talent is there as well.
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Yes, it is true that India has also.continued to rule batting in Under 17, 18 age groups.

You mentioned senior players.

There is Yashasvi Jaiswal also who would already have played 20 test matches for Pakistan.
 
therealAB said:
Dravid debuted in 1990's. Hayden is as much of an ATG as Sehwag
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Actually you are right, I will have to count Ponting if I count Dravid.

Hayden is definitely 1990s cricketer

So it's India 2, Australia 2
 
therealAB said:
Are you talking test only.

If so, Kohli didn't rule the 10's. Otherwise, Gavaskar didn't rule the 70's, 80's. Chappell was a better test bat than Sunil anyway, both were > Viv

Sachin didn't rule that whole period. For the majority of the 00's, Ponting, Dravid, Lara were better. He was the best player in the world in the 90's though. You couldn't say India batting dominated as he was their only good batsmen during this period
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Brother I am taking an overview of cricket. Of course there were instances when Viv, Lara, Ponting had their moment.

Also with Kohli, I did take the liberty to consider his overall record for 2010s which I did not do for Viv Richards and my reason is Cricket was not defined by LOIs in 1970s and 1980s.

Ian Chappell, Nasser and a whole bunch of renowned cricket analysts comfortably place Kohli above Smith as the greatest batsman if this generation based on his overall game. Cricketing greatness is no more defined only by test cricket.

Tendulkar was able to claim 2000s by his second return to the top in 2008-10 period as a veteran. When he hit the ODI double hundred and had a 1550+ test runs calender year atthe age of 37, he secured his legacy as the greatest cricketer of his generation.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Brother I am taking an overview of cricket. Of course there were instances when Viv, Lara, Ponting had their moment.

Also with Kohli, I did take the liberty to consider his overall record for 2010s which I did not do for Viv Richards and my reason is Cricket was not defined by LOIs in 1970s and 1980s.

Ian Chappell, Nasser and a whole bunch of renowned cricket analysts comfortably place Kohli above Smith as the greatest batsman if this generation based on his overall game. Cricketing greatness is no more defined only by test cricket.

Tendulkar was able to claim 2000s by his second return to the top in 2008-10 period as a veteran. When he hit the ODI double hundred and had a 1550+ test runs calender year atthe age of 37, he secured his legacy as the greatest cricketer of his generation.
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ALl pundits consider Viv >Gavaskar so not sure what your point is, if you are also using this point for Kohli > Smith
Doing test batting lineups for me since 70:

aus 1:

Langer
Hayden
Smith
Chappell
Border
Waugh
Gilchrist

ind 1

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
Kohli
Laxman?
Dhoni?

Aus better due to 6, 7 being much better. Gavaskar is the best opener on either side thoguh but that is outweighed by Gilly and Waugh

Aus 2:

Taylor
Warner
Ponting
Martyn
Clarke
Hussey
HEaly

ind 2:

Gambhir?
Sidhu?
Pujara
Viswanath
Azhar
Ganguly?
???

Not comparable here> Aus is better position - position for all playes!

Other aus batsmen include:
Boon, M. Waugh, Slater, Jones
Other indian batsmen include:
Karun Nair?

Aus just in general much better. The top few for each team (Gavaskar, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ponting, Waugh, Border, Smith, Chappell) are all very close, with Ind's best three maybe having a slight advantage (I reckon they are equal but it is so close) but overall Aus batting since 1970 >>> Ind batting in the same period


ALso, not debating that Tendulkar is the best all format bat from either country in thus period. I would however place Viv above him generally
 
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Only talking about greatest batsman in the decade bro. Not batting line ups.

1970s : Gavaskar
1980s : Gavaskar
1990s : Tendulkar
2000s : Tendulkar
2010s : Virat Kohli

India is proud of this heritage which we hope shall continue.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Only talking about greatest batsman in the decade bro. Not batting line ups.

1970s : Gavaskar
1980s : Gavaskar
1990s : Tendulkar
2000s : Tendulkar
2010s : Virat Kohli

India is proud of this heritage which we hope shall continue.
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Def have had great batsmen, agree with 90's - 2010's

Sunil def below Chappell in tests for me, as well as everyone in ODI. Don't see why you stop looking at ODI's before 1990, seems like you are being inconsistent to fit in as many Indins. Pick rules and stick to them

Was responding do your earlier claim that "India's blessed to have dominated batting in world cricket for 4 decades now"
 
therealAB said:
In 2010. Kallis >>> Tendulkar
Amla was the best bat in the world for a period, >> Dravid during this time
Smith was better than Sehwag in 10's
De Villiers >> Laxman

SA Way better

India was ageing, past it. Exactly, in the early 10's they were not a top batting team
Click to expand...

what? oh I thought you were comparing them to Virat's india.

Virat's india at home would smash them all. Virat's india has a top bowling attack, however, away from home they lose if tosses don't go in their favour.

It all depends on conditions.

I agree SA team was better than dhoni's india of 2011-2013. Dhoni's india of post 2013 was actually incredibly strong at home too.
 
therealAB said:
Def have had great batsmen, agree with 90's - 2010's

Sunil def below Chappell in tests for me, as well as everyone in ODI. Don't see why you stop looking at ODI's before 1990, seems like you are being inconsistent to fit in as many Indins. Pick rules and stick to them

Was responding do your earlier claim that "India's blessed to have dominated batting in world cricket for 4 decades now"
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I know there are question marks over 1980s and 2000s but as an Indian I have a very solid 'claim'.

I do not hide the onvious bias :)
 
freelance_cricketer said:
I know there are question marks over 1980s and 2000s but as an Indian I have a very solid 'claim'.

I do not hide the onvious bias :)
Click to expand...

Yep sorry if I came on a bit strong. Sachin def the best bat of his era whatever that is defined as. I believe that Ponting was better than Sachin in that decade in question so I put him but no issues if Sachin gets 00’s. Kohli def gets this decade

For me Gavaskar is hard as he is the 2nd best test bat very close to Chappell. I would still put viv 1 though as you can’t have different standards for different periods otherwise it is disingenuous.

Anyway India should be proud to have 2/3 of the decades, more than anyone else

Onto bowlers...
 
tyron_woodley said:
what? oh I thought you were comparing them to Virat's india.

Virat's india at home would smash them all. Virat's india has a top bowling attack, however, away from home they lose if tosses don't go in their favour.

It all depends on conditions.

I agree SA team was better than dhoni's india of 2011-2013. Dhoni's india of post 2013 was actually incredibly strong at home too.
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Yep agree with that, current India team at home is ridiculous and I can’t think of many teams in history that could beat them. Maybe the WI of the 80’s but that would be hard as Ashwin and Jadeja are ATG’s at home. That SA team would actually have a chance at winning a test though I reckon due to two main things:

Amla was ridiculous early in this decade, especially against spin

Steyn has ridiculous spells in him and could take 6-20

Over a series current India team would win though
 
What's up with [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION], he seems to be in some mood these days. Shall we start a new draft :)), weekends also coming up?
 
Ab Fan said:
What's up with [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION], he seems to be in some mood these days. Shall we start a new draft :)), weekends also coming up?
Click to expand...

What kind of mood...
[MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION] draft idea coming soon
 
therealAB said:
Yep sorry if I came on a bit strong. Sachin def the best bat of his era whatever that is defined as. I believe that Ponting was better than Sachin in that decade in question so I put him but no issues if Sachin gets 00’s. Kohli def gets this decade

For me Gavaskar is hard as he is the 2nd best test bat very close to Chappell. I would still put viv 1 though as you can’t have different standards for different periods otherwise it is disingenuous.

Anyway India should be proud to have 2/3 of the decades, more than anyone else

Onto bowlers...
Click to expand...

I was totally willing to stamp Ponting over Sachin in 2000s but he had the worst and most dramatic dip in form after 2007-08 season around the same time a 37 year old Sachin picked himself up literally from the verge if retirement to have a 1550+ test runs calender year.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Talking particularly about having the best batsman in the world.

Since 1970s, India has been the proud nation to have ownership over the greatest batsman in the world.

It's been 5 decades of hegemony at the top for India with Gavaskar ruling the 1970-80, Tendulkar rulling 19902-2000s and now Kohli having ruled 2010s and looking quite comfortable to rule most of 2020.

This is the legacy of Indian cricket.
Click to expand...

I full agree with you about Indian hegemony over the best batsman from 1970-2020. But I think Kohli won’t be able to lay claim to the title beyond 2023 as he declines due to age. He will still be a top performer and be in the Indian side for some time longer, but after 2023 I don’t think there is another Indian in waiting who will quickly rise to the mantle. Shubman, Prithvi will take another few years imo.

Babar has a good chance to break the Indian hegemony and become the best player of the 2020s decade, unless some of the younger Indian talent can step up to Kohli or Sachin esque levels
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION]

How do you guys see Smith/Kohli in comparuson to Tendulkar/Lara realistically speaking.

When you switch on the TV today and see Kohli or Smith, do they carry the same weight, or more.or less in your eyes in comparison to 15-20 years ago seeing Tendulkar /Lara
 
Tendulkar does and will always have more stature, due to his position in a huge Indian market when the game was becoming really big in the country.

His stature and legacy is only matched by a few players through history; Hobbs, Sobers, Bradman, Tendulkar, Viv and maybe Warne for me.
Lara also has a great legacy, but definitely not to the same degree. I am not going to talk about him much as for me he is below Sachin in terms and stature, test batting and ODI batting.

The more interesting debate is in terms of actual ability and performance. For me Smith’s dominance of series (home and away ashes, vs India in India), is above anyone of the modern era and the consistency that he scored runs at is unbelievable. He already has more greatness innings than Tendulkar and if he goes on to score 10k at 60+, with his current strong away record and performance against good attacks I will consider him better than Sachin as a pure test bat - obviously as an all format player Sachin will always be ahead of him, baring him doing something silly like averaging 60@100 in ODI’s for five years which he isn’t going to do.

As a test batsmen, Kohli is clearly below Sachin so far, especially given for me he is going to have a sharp decline due to how he plays outside his eyeline. If Kohli can repeat his overseas performance in SA, Eng and actually win, then maybe he can elevate himself to Sachin’s tier but for me that is unlikely.

In ODI’s Kohli needs a big WC to stand with Tendulkar, or at least a big final performance, which Tendulkar doesn’t have, to compensate for the disparity in their WC records. In both 2015 and 2019 Kohli came into the World Cup as the best batsmen in the world and was very good, but his performances did not match those of Tendulkar in his dominant world cups.

Basically, Tendulkar’s legacy will not be matched by a player from this generation, but Smith has a decent chance of being considered a better test batsmen. For me Kohli has an uphill climb to be considered better in either format.
 
therealAB said:
Tendulkar does and will always have more stature, due to his position in a huge Indian market when the game was becoming really big in the country.

His stature and legacy is only matched by a few players through history; Hobbs, Sobers, Bradman, Tendulkar, Viv and maybe Warne for me.
Lara also has a great legacy, but definitely not to the same degree. I am not going to talk about him much as for me he is below Sachin in terms and stature, test batting and ODI batting.

The more interesting debate is in terms of actual ability and performance. For me Smith’s dominance of series (home and away ashes, vs India in India), is above anyone of the modern era and the consistency that he scored runs at is unbelievable. He already has more greatness innings than Tendulkar and if he goes on to score 10k at 60+, with his current strong away record and performance against good attacks I will consider him better than Sachin as a pure test bat - obviously as an all format player Sachin will always be ahead of him, baring him doing something silly like averaging 60@100 in ODI’s for five years which he isn’t going to do.

As a test batsmen, Kohli is clearly below Sachin so far, especially given for me he is going to have a sharp decline due to how he plays outside his eyeline. If Kohli can repeat his overseas performance in SA, Eng and actually win, then maybe he can elevate himself to Sachin’s tier but for me that is unlikely.

In ODI’s Kohli needs a big WC to stand with Tendulkar, or at least a big final performance, which Tendulkar doesn’t have, to compensate for the disparity in their WC records. In both 2015 and 2019 Kohli came into the World Cup as the best batsmen in the world and was very good, but his performances did not match those of Tendulkar in his dominant world cups.

Basically, Tendulkar’s legacy will not be matched by a player from this generation, but Smith has a decent chance of being considered a better test batsmen. For me Kohli has an uphill climb to be considered better in either format.
Click to expand...

Smith is the best test batsman. kohli is the best overall in terms of all 3 formats.

sacchhu is below kohli in odi. sacchhu is equal to kohli in tests for me. kohli is a couple of quality test series performances away from being better than sacchhu

if kohli outperform smith in australia then kohli overtakes him as well provided he dominates in England again next time they tour.
 
Steven Smith is light years ahead of Tendulkar on every level, much bigger match winner, superior under pressure, the hunger to score runs consistently is also there and he is more of a patriot when it comes to his batting which I really like to be frank

Kohli and Sachin I would say are about par, one can't play swing at all and the other is exposed by in-swing; neither fancy those high pressure situations and crumble when their team needs them most but are equally worshipped, but Kohli has bought himself some more charisma thanks to his not so squeaky voice and marriage to a Bollywood superstar I believe who has elevated him in India.
 
In my opinion by the end of Virat’s career - he will surpass Sachin.

He is a run machine. Gun batsman.

No one will ever match him.
 
As a test batsmen, Steve Smith is the greatest batsmen in the modern era but in LOIs, he is a very average player. Smith's greatest strength is that even irrespective of stats, he is extremely clutch, delivers when matters and scores big enough to change the consequence of the game.

Virat is a great test player but not at the level of SRT, Lara or Smith. However in ODIs, he is heading on its way to GOAT status. He is destined to go past Tendulkar's ODI records like hundreds, averages and probably runs also but the only thing that is stopping is World Cup performance.

In terms of peer reputation also, Virat is ahead of Smith as most cricketers prioritise all-format legends over a test legend. Only in PP, we have a few selected fans who pretend that only test format matters and LOIs are irrelevant or non- existent. It's not even like test cricket is at its peak in terms of quality and only the best players can crack in.

We have already seen how England revamped their complete ODI team because they wanted to win the 2019 World Cup and it's not over after that as they continue to dominate in bilaterals.

In modern era, the best players are the ones who maintain this balance of the game across all formats and none does that better than Virat Kohli. Ofcourse, Smith is a GOAT and there is a special place for him as well as ultimately the order is Tests > ODIs >> T20s.

But in India, Virat won't have attained a stature as big as he has achieved now if he was just an average or decent LOI player.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Smith is the best test batsman. kohli is the best overall in terms of all 3 formats.

sacchhu is below kohli in odi. sacchhu is equal to kohli in tests for me. kohli is a couple of quality test series performances away from being better than sacchhu

if kohli outperform smith in australia then kohli overtakes him as well provided he dominates in England again next time they tour.
Click to expand...

Kohli has no great WC performances, that bars him from being > Tendulkar
Also, he is more than 2 series from being > Smith, Smith has outperformed him in Aus, Ind, Eng already.
Compared to Smith, Kohli didn't dominate in England. Kohli's series was very good but Smith was >>> Kohli in their consecutive tours of England
 
therealAB said:
Kohli has no great WC performances, that bars him from being > Tendulkar
Also, he is more than 2 series from being > Smith, Smith has outperformed him in Aus, Ind, Eng already.
Compared to Smith, Kohli didn't dominate in England. Kohli's series was very good but Smith was >>> Kohli in their consecutive tours of England
Click to expand...

if kohli outperform smith in the next aussie tour down under and at home the year after plus an away England series he takes it comfortably. Will he? I don't know.

I already said smith is the best ever but kohli is the only one who can stop him provided kohli can outperform smith in the home and away fixtures vs australia and ofcourse another spectacular England series.


kohli = tenda in tests. kohli> odi I believe.

kohli has a better record overall vs all top teams. Yes his performances in ko stages needs to improve. Its really hard to judge the 2. one performs better in tournaments but kohli still has 2023 WC which india are very likely to win and kohli has a superior record vs top teams overall. Performing better in 2 KO games in a world cup that happens every 4 years is > kohli's ridiculously good overall record? I don't know.

who performed better in champions trophy and Asian cup? I believe kohli.

I would pick kohli over tenda in odi. equal in tests. kohli anyday in t20.

if I had to bet on either one to bat for my life it would be neither tbh.
 
tyron_woodley said:
if kohli outperform smith in the next aussie tour down under and at home the year after plus an away England series he takes it comfortably. Will he? I don't know.

I already said smith is the best ever but kohli is the only one who can stop him provided kohli can outperform smith in the home and away fixtures vs australia and ofcourse another spectacular England series.


kohli = tenda in tests. kohli> odi I believe.

kohli has a better record overall vs all top teams. Yes his performances in ko stages needs to improve. Its really hard to judge the 2. one performs better in tournaments but kohli still has 2023 WC which india are very likely to win and kohli has a superior record vs top teams overall. Performing better in 2 KO games in a world cup that happens every 4 years is > kohli's ridiculously good overall record? I don't know.

who performed better in champions trophy and Asian cup? I believe kohli.

I would pick kohli over tenda in odi. equal in tests. kohli anyday in t20.

if I had to bet on either one to bat for my life it would be neither tbh.
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe that is fair re Smith, Kohli but Kohli would have to have 2 series at the level of Smith;s series in England - average 100+, lead his team to a positive conclusion with 3+ hundreds, which he isn't going to do.

Re Tendulkar's, Kohli's ODI records you can't just look at raw average. These days there are plenty of 45+ players with high strike rates, whereas in Tendulkar's ere there was no one, and as such he stood out more than Kohli. Basically, their general records are similar but Tendulkar has dominated world cups, moreso than just "2 KO games" but overall in worldcups he has been remarkable.
ASia Cups, Champions trophy are much less important than WC's

With the t20, you are in no position to say that - we don't know. The only thing we do know is that Tendulkar's had a much higher SR for his era - Kohli would have to strike at 100+ in ODI to compare
 
therealAB said:
Ok, maybe that is fair re Smith, Kohli but Kohli would have to have 2 series at the level of Smith;s series in England - average 100+, lead his team to a positive conclusion with 3+ hundreds, which he isn't going to do.

Re Tendulkar's, Kohli's ODI records you can't just look at raw average. These days there are plenty of 45+ players with high strike rates, whereas in Tendulkar's ere there was no one, and as such he stood out more than Kohli. Basically, their general records are similar but Tendulkar has dominated world cups, moreso than just "2 KO games" but overall in worldcups he has been remarkable.
ASia Cups, Champions trophy are much less important than WC's

With the t20, you are in no position to say that - we don't know. The only thing we do know is that Tendulkar's had a much higher SR for his era - Kohli would have to strike at 100+ in ODI to compare
Click to expand...


put it this way. kohli is 2 top Ko performances away from eclipsing tenda. 2023 is his world cup. I would be very surprised if he doesnt help india win in 2023. High chance to win for sure.

tenda has dominated world cups? ok. so gambhir has a better record in world cups. So does dhawan. now dhawan > tenda ? dont get me wrong, i rate dhawan. He is super clutch. One of the best ever openers in the modern era. He still isnt on tendulkar's level.

it doesnt work like that. Kohli helped his team get to the quarter finals in the first place.

dhoni also has a good WC record. Now dhoni > tenda ?

Kohli dominated odi. No one is ''close' to his average. Kohli played 248 games. babr has played 74. root has played 140 and still averages a good 8 points below.

Kohli is still the greater odi player as his average vs top teams is better. Kohli however needs one good WC performance in 2023 to be the best of all time.

tenda maybe temporarily greater but kohli is the better odi player.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION]

How do you guys see Smith/Kohli in comparuson to Tendulkar/Lara realistically speaking.

When you switch on the TV today and see Kohli or Smith, do they carry the same weight, or more.or less in your eyes in comparison to 15-20 years ago seeing Tendulkar /Lara
Click to expand...

Are we talking in terms of who is the better batsman or who has the bigger stature as a cricketer ?

If it's the latter, Sachin Tendulkar hands down. He was the first star of India's television boom and corporatisation of cricket. He carried India in the 90s with little support.

If we're talking purely as a batsman, I think [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] sums it up well but it's difficult comparing eras. Smith is a freak who by the time he retires may surpass both in Tests. Sachin had more discipline outside offstump than Kohli, but Kohli will be the ODI ATG if he produces a top innings in a knockout game at the 2023 World Cup. Smith is below both in ODIs.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Funny how Joe Root wasn’t even a contender back when I created this thread. :yk

@Mamoon
@DeadlyVenom
@mominsaigol
@Rana
@Major
Click to expand...
It's because Root's career is heading in an upward trajectory.

He got better with age. The funny thing is, at the age of 33 almoat 34 which he will turn in a few weeks, Root has been at his absolute peak, While kohli from 31 to 36 has been avg 25.

Root got better with age and at the same age he is at peak is the very age kohli became a has been.

As for smith, Same story, Smith post 32 declined but not as bad as kohli as he still was scoring centuries and even scored one in wtc.

However 2024 smith is now even worse then kohli
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Joe went up a notch in recent years. He used to have a poor conversion but really picked it up to elite levels more recently.
Click to expand...

It is really inspiring. In my lifetime only a handful of great cricketers had a great resurgence. Tendulkar and Lara both resurrected their respective careers in mid 30s. James Anderson did it and now Joe Root.
 
Bhaijaan said:
It is really inspiring. In my lifetime only a handful of great cricketers had a great resurgence. Tendulkar and Lara both resurrected their respective careers in mid 30s. James Anderson did it and now Joe Root.
Click to expand...
Tendulkar even got booed by an Indian crowd, in Mumbai v England because they were sick of his poor form, the only other player I can remember getting booed by home crowd in such a way is Khushdil Shah. He managed to bounce back and scored heavy for a few years.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Tendulkar even got booed by an Indian crowd, in Mumbai v England because they were sick of his poor form, the only other player I can remember getting booed by home crowd in such a way is Khushdil Shah. He managed to bounce back and scored heavy for a few years.
Click to expand...

I never understood why that booing incident became a big deal. Bharatiya fans have always been harsh. Look at what Rohit Sharma is going through. From being the darling of the nation hero and a father figure in the dressing room just a few months ago everyone’s asking him to step down now after a few test defeats.
 
Root post 2021 is going through one of the greatest peaks in history.

He is still behind Smith but is comfortably ahead of Kohli as a Test batsman now.
 
Since 01 Jan 2020,

Williamson has played 26 tests.
Root has played 62 tests.

Tell us how much of test cricket Root has played in these years.

Smith and Kohli haven’t played many either.
 
Ab Fan said:
Since 01 Jan 2020,

Williamson has played 26 tests.
Root has played 62 tests.

Tell us how much of test cricket Root has played in these years.

Smith and Kohli haven’t played many either.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter. Anyone with a brain can tell Kohli is a has been. Had kohli played 62 tests his avg would have dropped to 40 by now.

Dude has so many single digit scores in test cricket now, Even rohot sharma at his current age would be embrassed.

Indian fans are as clueless as they come.

The gulf between root and kohli as test batters is greater then the gulf between Pointing and Umar Akmal as ODI batters.
 
mominsaigol said:
Doesn't matter. Anyone with a brain can tell Kohli is a has been. Had kohli played 62 tests his avg would have dropped to 40 by now.

Dude has so many single digit scores in test cricket now, Even rohot sharma at his current age would be embrassed.

Indian fans are as clueless as they come.

The gulf between root and kohli as test batters is greater then the gulf between Pointing and Umar Akmal as ODI batters.
Click to expand...

I just talked about their number of matches lol :inti
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mamoon said:
Root post 2021 is going through one of the greatest peaks in history.

He is still behind Smith but is comfortably ahead of Kohli as a Test batsman now.
Click to expand...

Kohli is #4 among Fab 4 in tests.
#1 as an ODI batsman
#1 as a T20i batsman
#1 overall of the post Sachin era
 
Bhaijaan said:
Kohli is #4 among Fab 4 in tests.
#1 as an ODI batsman
#1 as a T20i batsman
#1 overall of the post Sachin era
Click to expand...
How is he no 1 as a t20 batsmen? His t20 career fell off a cliff just like his test career?

As for no 1 overall. In tests he was never no 1. When at peak, Steve smith was better then he was.
 
Mamoon said:
Kohli is a far better Test batsman than Williamson. Williamson is the biggest fraud in Test history.
Click to expand...

I respect Williamson. He’s a very good all format batter. The fan 4 all have their own qualities. I’m most worried about Smith’s legacy actually. Root will walk away with test record, Kohli has the ODI legacy, Williamson is retiring as NZ’s greatest batter alongside Martin Crowe but if Smith who at one point was standing 2nd to Bradman doesn’t turn it around in the only format he excels at, he will retire kind of a forgotten hero.
 
Kohli is a polarizing figure though. If he smashes another century in one of the next 3 tests, then we’re talking about 8 test centuries in Australia compared to Root’s 0. Afterwards good luck ever convincing an Aussie about Root being better than Kohli. He’s had a shameful fall as a test batter but the impact he’s had in his peak especially against the tougher opponents outside Bharat will always protect his legacy despite the fall in batting average.
 
Nope, Sachin has a different level of fan following especially in India They would never rate Anyone higher than Sachin.
 
Tendus statute is only in India. No one really cares or knows him outside of India. Like do I really need to remind you of the Sharapova and the Tendulkar episode.

Thing is, its not a big deal, cricket isnt really a popular sport outside of subcontinent.

Now as for stature in cricketing world. Kohli already passed Tendulkar, cause Tendulkar is known as a stat paddar while Kohli is known for snatching wins out of the jaws.
 
Major said:
Tendus statute is only in India. No one really cares or knows him outside of India. Like do I really need to remind you of the Sharapova and the Tendulkar episode.

Thing is, its not a big deal, cricket isnt really a popular sport outside of subcontinent.

Now as for stature in cricketing world. Kohli already passed Tendulkar, cause Tendulkar is known as a stat paddar while Kohli is known for snatching wins out of the jaws.
Click to expand...
Disagree. Kohli has near Taylor swift level followings at this point.

Even us and uk influencers wish to collaborate with him. Joe rogan even mentioned him multiple times and has tried to get him in his show but with no luck.

Kohli's popularity clearly surpasses the subcontinent
 
Major said:
Tendus statute is only in India. No one really cares or knows him outside of India. Like do I really need to remind you of the Sharapova and the Tendulkar episode.

Thing is, its not a big deal, cricket isnt really a popular sport outside of subcontinent.

Now as for stature in cricketing world. Kohli already passed Tendulkar, cause Tendulkar is known as a stat paddar while Kohli is known for snatching wins out of the jaws.
Click to expand...
I wacthed a short videoclip on YT yesterday, a young guy in Sydney Centrum, he was holding a big picture of Kohli in national kit on his tablet asking random people if they knew him. To my surprise only one person recognised him. That was very strange. It was a short clip (and he could have edited it as well, don't know)
 
BouncerGuy said:
Nope, Sachin has a different level of fan following especially in India They would never rate Anyone higher than Sachin.
Click to expand...

How about having someone genuinely better than him first. Most Bharatiyas consider Lara equal to Sachin out of immense respect for the great batter.
 
IAJ said:
I wacthed a short videoclip on YT yesterday, a young guy in Sydney Centrum, he was holding a big picture of Kohli in national kit on his tablet asking random people if they knew him. To my surprise only one person recognised him. That was very strange. It was a short clip (and he could have edited it as well, don't know)
Click to expand...
naa people dont know about cricket stars, and alot of indian fans cant digest this fact.

They believe in this delusion that Tendulkar is equivalent to Michael Jordan, when in reality he is just equivalent to the top lacrosse player.
 
mominsaigol said:
Disagree. Kohli has near Taylor swift level followings at this point.

Even us and uk influencers wish to collaborate with him. Joe rogan even mentioned him multiple times and has tried to get him in his show but with no luck.

Kohli's popularity clearly surpasses the subcontinent
Click to expand...
bro, every cricketer is unknown outside subcontinent. It doesnt matter if its Kohli, Ponting or Tendu.

Only ones that know these guys are subcontinent dispora living abroad, where often Indians get offended if someone doesnt know their cricketer.

Influencers looking to capture Indian market will offcourse study what person Indians have made their demi god which is why they would than target that person. Influencers often have researchers sitting around doing all the nitty gritty.

Now if i mention Michael Jordon, people will know him. Messi and Ronaldo, those are just names that everyone in the world knows. Even Wayne Gretzky is known atleast in ice hockey nations. Kohli is not even known by Australians (a cricket nation)
 
mominsaigol said:
How is he no 1 as a t20 batsmen? His t20 career fell off a cliff just like his test career?

As for no 1 overall. In tests he was never no 1. When at peak, Steve smith was better then he was.
Click to expand...
He was ranking all four of them in other formats and Kohli is definitely ahead of the other three put together in t20s.
 
atreus said:
I don't think ODIs or T20s bar world cup wins even matter ngl
Click to expand...
Yeah and Kohli has the best record out of them all in Odi world cups , Champions trophy and t20 world cup, so you can try any way of filtering stats and performances the point is Kohli stands head and shoulders above all three of them.

BTW what you think doesn’t really matter too.
 
Pakistanis: Nobody knows Sachin outside Bharat
Outside Bharat :-


Pakistanis: But Maria Shara….
Dude nobody knows many Tennis players globally outside the Big 3 realm either. Stop being ignorant.
 
IAJ said:
I wacthed a short videoclip on YT yesterday, a young guy in Sydney Centrum, he was holding a big picture of Kohli in national kit on his tablet asking random people if they knew him. To my surprise only one person recognised him. That was very strange. It was a short clip (and he could have edited it as well, don't know)
Click to expand...
Yeah but they won’t even recognise Smith too, Australia is not actually filled with cricket fans, also it has a lot of other cultures living together.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Yeah and Kohli has the best record out of them all in Odi world cups , Champions trophy and t20 world cup, so you can try any way of filtering stats and performances the point is Kohli stands head and shoulders above all three of them.

BTW what you think doesn’t really matter too.
Click to expand...
again, the purest and main form of Cricket is test cricket and the only one that has been around as a constant for 150 years now, limited overs are just side content, like a rapid game of chess, it's fun and all but it's not the main format and it's not the default format at all.

imagine if someone makes Sunil Gavaskar vs Babar Azam, nobody would say Babar is better because he was better in ODIs, or if someone makes Dravid vs Amla, nobody is gonna mention ODIs to argue for Amla, it always default back to the main and true format of cricket.

so adding in LO is really just cope about Kohli not being top 2 batters of his generation, as good as he is in LOs, same way Miandad doesn't become better than Gavaskar because he is better in Limited overs.

also, not really my opinion either lol, Boards constantly put their second rate teams for ODI matches, so yeah, even they don't think JAMODIs matter, but if you need to use ODIs to bridge gaps between batters than that's just hypocritical
 
atreus said:
again, the purest and main form of Cricket is test cricket and the only one that has been around as a constant for 150 years now, limited overs are just side content, like a rapid game of chess, it's fun and all but it's not the main format and it's not the default format at all.

imagine if someone makes Sunil Gavaskar vs Babar Azam, nobody would say Babar is better because he was better in ODIs, or if someone makes Dravid vs Amla, nobody is gonna mention ODIs to argue for Amla, it always default back to the main and true format of cricket.

so adding in LO is really just cope about Kohli not being top 2 batters of his generation, as good as he is in LOs, same way Miandad doesn't become better than Gavaskar because he is better in Limited overs.

also, not really my opinion either lol, Boards constantly put their second rate teams for ODI matches, so yeah, even they don't think JAMODIs matter, but if you need to use ODIs to bridge gaps between batters than that's just hypocritical
Click to expand...
In Gavaskars time Odis was not prominent, t20 didn’t exist.
Secondly even with his worse form Kohli is still a 48 averaging test batsman with 30 centuries and not a 30 averaging dud.

When you combine this with his ability in t20 and Odis the others don’t come anywhere near, let alone top two he is in a different galaxy as all format cricketer.

In tests, Smith >> Root >> Kohli > Williamson.

Also if you want to argue about all formats do that with @mominsaigol who thinks Head > Laxman cos of all format batting.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
In Gavaskars time Odis was not prominent, t20 didn’t exist.
Secondly even with his worse form Kohli is still a 48 averaging test batsman with 30 centuries and not a 30 averaging dud.

When you combine this with his ability in t20 and Odis the others don’t come anywhere near, let alone top two he is in a different galaxy as all format cricketer.

In tests, Smith >> Root >> Kohli > Williamson.

Also if you want to argue about all formats do that with @mominsaigol who thinks Head > Laxman cos of all format batting.
Click to expand...
Head >>> Laxman plain and simple. He's a head of everything India can and possibly will produce. He's the true God of batting.

Thousands of Indian cricketers produced post 2000's yet none of em can score a century in a final in the modern era
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
In Gavaskars time Odis was not prominent, t20 didn’t exist.
Secondly even with his worse form Kohli is still a 48 averaging test batsman with 30 centuries and not a 30 averaging dud.

When you combine this with his ability in t20 and Odis the others don’t come anywhere near, let alone top two he is in a different galaxy as all format cricketer.

In tests, Smith >> Root >> Kohli > Williamson.

Also if you want to argue about all formats do that with @mominsaigol who thinks Head > Laxman cos of all format batting.
Click to expand...
ODIs were definitely more prominent than today for sure, 80s ODI is pretty underrated, all elite teams played it, 3-4 way serieses were extremely common and people used to send their elite pacers and players to play One day.

47, likely to fall to 45-46 if he plays the England series fully, far off from the other two, he is better than Williamson though.

He is in a different league in term of limited overs Cricket, but the main format he is comfortably #3.

Laxman is better than Head.
 
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