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Will the OIC take Pakistan's side when it comes to dealing with India?

It’s time for Pak to pivot away from the Saudis.. it’s caused more harm than good.
Imagine a region with a strong Pakistan/Iran; secure energy supply from your neighbour, strong relations with Turkey. It’s all much better than the Saudis who have treated us like a client state.

its starting to happen. However there is more to all of this than we know. We have started to diversify some of our LNG supplies e.g. from azeri companies. Also looking to reduce our dependancies on oil by building damns and trying to promote electric cars. ML1 the train modernisation is also most probably going to run on a diesal electric mix so again will educe the need for cars etc.

We cant disassociate ourselves compleltey from Saudi as we have sworn to protect the holy cities but we can start to limit our entanglements with them and change the contours of the relationship into something a bit different and less slave vs master.
 
we can start to limit our entanglements with them and change the contours of the relationship into something a bit different and less slave vs master.

But isn't china coming in too much close with that of Pakistan? Do you believe that China is coming with only a friendly hand and there won't be any ill intention behind?
 
Saudi Arabia ends loan and oil supply to Pakistan over its criticism of OIC on Kashmir

Saudi Arabia has ended a loan and oil supply to Pakistan due to the South Asian nation’s criticism that the Saudi-led Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is not doing enough to pressure India on the Kashmir issue, marking a new milestone in the deteriorating relations between the two allies.

Pakistan was last week forced to repay a Saudi loan of $1 billion that the kingdom called in after Pakistan insisted it be allowed to lead the OIC’s support for Kashmir, a region largely under Indian occupation and which was annexed by India last year.

The loan was part of a $6.2 billion package announced by Saudi Arabia in November 2018, which included a total of $3 billion in loans and an oil credit facility amounting to $3.2 billion. Those deals were then signed when Crown Prince Muhammed Bin Salman made a visit to Pakistan in February last year.

Relations between the two countries then started to break down, however, when Riyadh turned down Islamabad’s request to convene a special meeting of the OIC’s Council of Foreign Ministers. Pakistan continued to demand the OIC use its role to help Kashmir, with Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi stating in an interview with the Pakistani news channel ARY last week that “I am once again respectfully telling OIC that a meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers is our expectation.”

He went further by warning that Pakistan would be forced to take it into its own hands, saying that “If you cannot convene it, then I’ll be compelled to ask Prime Minister Imran Khan to call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir and support the oppressed Kashmiris.”

Qureshi insisted that the OIC, dominated largely by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arab states, must “show leadership on the issue.” He added that “We have our own sensitivities. You have to realise this. Gulf countries should understand this.”

The foreign minister made the comments despite risking his country’s ties with the kingdom, acknowledging that “It’s right, I’m taking a position despite our good ties with Saudi Arabia…We cannot stay silent anymore on the sufferings of the Kashmiris.”

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have historically had strong bilateral relations in the financial, trade and military sectors, making the increased tensions between the two countries a concern for many and particularly for Pakistan, which has been undergoing a financial crisis over the past few years and which saw the kingdom as a primary ally to help bail it out.

This is not the first time such tension was witnessed, though, as Pakistan was pressured by Saudi Arabia to skip the attendance of a major summit on the issues facing the Muslim world in the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur in December last year due to the presence of the kingdom’s rivals, Iran and Turkey. Pakistan’s lack of attendance, seen as a challenge to Saudi Arabia’s influence in the Muslim world, caused many to see Islamabad as being subservient to Riyadh.
 
But isn't china coming in too much close with that of Pakistan? Do you believe that China is coming with only a friendly hand and there won't be any ill intention behind?

perhaps but it is a better deal for us in the longer term. Their investment helps us re-industrialise and we help to provide them a link to warm waters that bypass the malacca straits. Ultimately we can no longer rely on the western bloc for assistance and must become self sustaining. If China helps with this then we will take that option.

the only thing we care about are our interests and at this moment in time they align perfectly with China's. It is good business for them and good business for us. The future is anybody's guess.

I also understand India's apprehensions but there is a quick and easy solution to the problem and that is full negotiations with both China and Pakistan and for India to realign with our bloc. It makes zero sense for India to be beholden to the US. Its natural home is with a russia,China, Pakistan, turkey,Iran bloc. Modi is missing a massive trick here.
 
Pakistan - Saudi relationship

Indian media is reporting a lot on this today.

Apparently Pakistan's threat of pulling out of OIC over lack of support to their Kashmir cause didn't settle well with King Salman?
 
you are trying to take a dig at it ? we know why indian media is going mad on this.
the thing is...
indian dont know how much Al-saud is in deep trouble .... all this ho-ha is for to show only .... al-saud knows if the Pak establishment take any tough decision thn they are in more trouble ....
if we can tame the effing US thn what chances al-saud have ?
 
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100% sure whatever Indian media is reporting is false and fake news.



There is some dip in relations though because of Saudi's lack of strong stance on Kashmir and Pakistan finally realizing her strength. The foreign minister a few days ago said Pakistan will go their own route if OIC dilly dallys on Kashmir. We also returned $1b of the Saudi's aid money well ahead of schedule.


Saudis have been exploiting Pak relations for long. Yes, it is Pak nations and army's doctrine that it will defend Makkah and Madina at all costs but Saudi's began to think that meant Pak will be a Saudi poodle.
 
@Op do you have any idea how many Pak army personnel have stationed in ME, especially in KSA ?
i have seen with my own eyes Pak army protecting the bahrain military personnel and enforcing the Law and Order couple of years ago during sunni-shia riots in bahrain ....
 
@Op do you have any idea how many Pak army personnel have stationed in ME, especially in KSA ?
i have seen with my own eyes Pak army protecting the bahrain military personnel and enforcing the Law and Order couple of years ago during sunni-shia riots in bahrain ....

Pak Army was being used to protect another country’s Army?

Also are you talking about Oil supply, Coz Indian Express is the only decent Indian source nowadays and that’s all they are reporting.
 
100% sure whatever Indian media is reporting is false and fake news.



There is some dip in relations though because of Saudi's lack of strong stance on Kashmir and Pakistan finally realizing her strength. The foreign minister a few days ago said Pakistan will go their own route if OIC dilly dallys on Kashmir. We also returned $1b of the Saudi's aid money well ahead of schedule.


Saudis have been exploiting Pak relations for long. Yes, it is Pak nations and army's doctrine that it will defend Makkah and Madina at all costs but Saudi's began to think that meant Pak will be a Saudi poodle.

I am also 100% sure Indian media will exaggerate any story out if proportions.

Just coming here to get a better perspective because my knowledge on this matter is zero and I don't pretend to be an expert over matters I don't know unlike some of our friends :))

Thanks for your reply. This gives a perspective
 
Pak Army was being used to protect another country’s Army?

Also are you talking about Oil supply, Coz Indian Express is the only decent Indian source nowadays and that’s all they are reporting.

mostly arab countries except egypt have armies like sitting duck ....
not talking about indian express .... oil supply issue will be solve soon ....
i am talking about how much Pak army run deep into ME countries security matters .... i have seen that in bahrain with my own eyes .... and KSA is no exception ....
 
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Saudi Arabia ends loan and oil supply to Pakistan over its criticism of OIC on Kashmir

Saudi Arabia has ended a loan and oil supply to Pakistan due to the South Asian nation’s criticism that the Saudi-led Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is not doing enough to pressure India on the Kashmir issue, marking a new milestone in the deteriorating relations between the two allies.

Pakistan was last week forced to repay a Saudi loan of $1 billion that the kingdom called in after Pakistan insisted it be allowed to lead the OIC’s support for Kashmir, a region largely under Indian occupation and which was annexed by India last year.

The loan was part of a $6.2 billion package announced by Saudi Arabia in November 2018, which included a total of $3 billion in loans and an oil credit facility amounting to $3.2 billion. Those deals were then signed when Crown Prince Muhammed Bin Salman made a visit to Pakistan in February last year.

Relations between the two countries then started to break down, however, when Riyadh turned down Islamabad’s request to convene a special meeting of the OIC’s Council of Foreign Ministers. Pakistan continued to demand the OIC use its role to help Kashmir, with Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi stating in an interview with the Pakistani news channel ARY last week that “I am once again respectfully telling OIC that a meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers is our expectation.”

He went further by warning that Pakistan would be forced to take it into its own hands, saying that “If you cannot convene it, then I’ll be compelled to ask Prime Minister Imran Khan to call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir and support the oppressed Kashmiris.”

Qureshi insisted that the OIC, dominated largely by Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arab states, must “show leadership on the issue.” He added that “We have our own sensitivities. You have to realise this. Gulf countries should understand this.”

The foreign minister made the comments despite risking his country’s ties with the kingdom, acknowledging that “It’s right, I’m taking a position despite our good ties with Saudi Arabia…We cannot stay silent anymore on the sufferings of the Kashmiris.”

Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have historically had strong bilateral relations in the financial, trade and military sectors, making the increased tensions between the two countries a concern for many and particularly for Pakistan, which has been undergoing a financial crisis over the past few years and which saw the kingdom as a primary ally to help bail it out.

This is not the first time such tension was witnessed, though, as Pakistan was pressured by Saudi Arabia to skip the attendance of a major summit on the issues facing the Muslim world in the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur in December last year due to the presence of the kingdom’s rivals, Iran and Turkey. Pakistan’s lack of attendance, seen as a challenge to Saudi Arabia’s influence in the Muslim world, caused many to see Islamabad as being subservient to Riyadh.

Source: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...akistan-over-its-criticism-of-oic-on-kashmir/
 
I'm in two minds over this. We have taken a very strong stance against KSA and have done so after almost a year of them not supporting our cause even though we refused the Kuala Lumpur meeting due to pressure from KSA.

I mean It's basically the KSA choosing India's stance over ours. It's abandonment when we need it the most, in terms of financial and geopolitical issues. However, this isn't something new. In May when Maldives initiated the move to side with India on the Kashmir issue among the OIC countries. This stance was backed by UAE, Oman and KSA. As I understand they are also supported by Indonesia.

My question is are we going to cut-off ties with any country that does not support our stance on the Kashmir issue? Which means we will only be left with China, Turkey and Malaysia as allies? I just question us falling more into China's hands by cutting off ties with important countries in the middle east. At this time we need to weigh the options and consider what is more important? Is it Kashmir or the survival of the rest of Pakistan?
 
ISLAMABAD: The army chief will visit Saudi Arabia this weekend, officials said, seeking to calm diplomatic strains over Kashmir as financial support for Islamabad hangs in the balance.

The two countries are traditionally close and Saudi Arabia in 2018 gave Pakistan a $3 billion loan and $3.2bn oil credit facility to help its balance of payments crisis.

But Riyadh is irked by criticism from Pakistan that Saudi Arabia has been lukewarm on the Kashmir territorial dispute, two senior military officials told Reuters, motivating Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa’s planned visit on Sunday.

“Yes he is travelling,” Pakistan army spokesman Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar told Reuters, though the official line was that the visit was pre-planned and “primarily military affairs oriented”.

Saudia Arabia made Pakistan pay back $1bn two weeks ago, forcing it to borrow from close ally China, and Riyadh is yet to respond to Pakistan’s request to extend the oil credit facility.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1574105/coas-to-visit-s-arabia-on-16th
 
al-saud knows if the Pak establishment take any tough decision thn they are in more trouble ....
if we can tame the effing US thn what chances al-saud have ?

^ This post tells us that you live in an alternate reality, I feel sad for you. It is humiliating for Pakistan when the OIC leader doesn't even bother to acknowledge Kashmir as an issue. Nobody outside Pakistan takes the issue seriously, wake up and smell the coffee.
 
^ This post tells us that you live in an alternate reality, I feel sad for you. It is humiliating for Pakistan when the OIC leader doesn't even bother to acknowledge Kashmir as an issue. Nobody outside Pakistan takes the issue seriously, wake up and smell the coffee.

Aside from the fact that that's far from true, that's a huge argumental fallacy, an issue isn't less important just cause world governments or the media don't deem it important, it's about humanity not some popularity contest.
 
I'm in two minds over this. We have taken a very strong stance against KSA and have done so after almost a year of them not supporting our cause even though we refused the Kuala Lumpur meeting due to pressure from KSA.

I mean It's basically the KSA choosing India's stance over ours. It's abandonment when we need it the most, in terms of financial and geopolitical issues. However, this isn't something new. In May when Maldives initiated the move to side with India on the Kashmir issue among the OIC countries. This stance was backed by UAE, Oman and KSA. As I understand they are also supported by Indonesia.

My question is are we going to cut-off ties with any country that does not support our stance on the Kashmir issue? Which means we will only be left with China, Turkey and Malaysia as allies? I just question us falling more into China's hands by cutting off ties with important countries in the middle east. At this time we need to weigh the options and consider what is more important? Is it Kashmir or the survival of the rest of Pakistan?

We don't need Indonesia or Maldives; perhaps the Gulf nations are more important cause of their wealth (for now).
 
Pakistan's army chief will visit Saudi Arabia this weekend, officials said, seeking to calm diplomatic strains over Kashmir as financial support for Islamabad hangs in the balance.

The two countries are traditionally close and Saudi Arabia in 2018 gave Pakistan a $3bn loan and $3.2bn oil credit facility to help its balance of payments crisis.

But Riyadh is irked by criticism from Pakistan that Saudi Arabia has been lukewarm on the Kashmir territorial dispute, two senior military officials told the Reuters news agency, motivating General Qamar Javed Bajwa's planned fence-building visit on Sunday.

"Yes he is travelling," Pakistan army spokesman Major General Babar Iftikhar told Reuters, though the official line was that the visit was preplanned and "primarily military affairs oriented".

India and Pakistan have fought three wars over the divided Himalayan region of Kashmir, which both claim in full.

Pakistan has long pressed the Saudi-led Organization of Islamic Countries (OIC) to convene a high-level meeting to highlight alleged Indian violations in the part it controls.

But the OIC has only held low-level meetings so far.

"If you cannot convene it, then I'll be compelled to ask Prime Minister Imran Khan to call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir and support the oppressed Kashmiris," Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi told local media last week.

Money at stake
Last year, Islamabad had pulled out of a Muslim nations forum at the last minute on insistence by Riyadh, which saw the gathering as an attempt to challenge its leadership of the OIC.

Qureshi's remarks have revived Riyadh's anger, one of the Pakistani military officials and a government adviser said.

Saudia Arabia had already made Pakistan pay back $1bn two weeks ago, forcing it to borrow from another close ally, China, and Riyadh is yet to respond to Pakistan's request to extend the oil credit facility.

"The first year (of the oil credit facility) completed on 9th July 2020. Our request for an extension in the arrangement is under consideration with the Saudi side," a Pakistani finance ministry official told Reuters.

Saudi Arabia is also asking for another $1bn back, officials at Pakistan's finance ministry and one of the military officers said. The Saudi government media office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Pakistanis account for more than a quarter of the 10 million expatriates working in Saudi Arabia.

Pakistani leader Khan is also seeking to mediate between Saudi Arabia and Iran, after attacks on Gulf oil interests that Washington blamed on Tehran, though he said recently that was progressing slowly.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ce-eastern-mediterranean-200813044802751.html
 
Think this is a significant development and could change many things - including KSA's relationship with India.

Its something that was said behind the scenes but kudos to IK for saying it like it is.
 
Aside from the fact that that's far from true, that's a huge argumental fallacy, an issue isn't less important just cause world governments or the media don't deem it important, it's about humanity not some popularity contest.

World governments don't deem it important because there is zero merit to the issue regarding humanitarian concerns. Pakistani posters themselves like gharib_aadmi and slog have admitted it is nothing more than a petty land grab that keeps the pak population preoccupied and gives them some unifying issue to talk about.
 
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Pak have taken a very brave stance here tbh, would be important to see whether they stand on it or bulge down to the pressure
 
So Bajwa is going to KSA to repair the damage caused by his subjects?

It is time for Pakistan to once again make peace with reality. We have zero international credibility, we have zero importance and the world does not take our Kashmir narrative seriously.

This is the same KSA on whose orders we didn’t attend the KL summit and whose king was chauffeured around Islamabad by our brave PM.
 
Don’t like the Saudis but we have no choice but to make peace with them. They clearly value their business ties with India over the non-existent Ummah, and we have no choice but to pretend to be their friends due to oue fragile economic state.

Nonetheless, it’s interesting to see how the world is quickly being divided into two different blocs with US, Japan, KSA and India on one side and China, Iran, Russia, Turkey and Pakistan on the other. Safe to say we’ve entered into a new cold war.
 
^ This post tells us that you live in an alternate reality, I feel sad for you. It is humiliating for Pakistan when the OIC leader doesn't even bother to acknowledge Kashmir as an issue. Nobody outside Pakistan takes the issue seriously, wake up and smell the coffee.

The Irony, a bhakt will tell others about alternate reality ..... tell me did you shot down an F-16 with mig-21 ? Yes or No ?

munnay you dont know jack about arab countries and how Pakistani establishment runs deep into thre internal and external security issues .... read my post #89 ....
 
If anybody think GHQ didnt know what SMQ was going to say is living in dream land. This is a strategic move from Pakistan. They have clearly given a signal to Saudi that you need to step up or we will be compelled to make a different decision. t the same time they are reassuring the kingdom that defence ties will remain even if political ties will not be as rosy as before.

The writing is on the wall for the Saudis. They have been given a signal that Pakistan's support cannot be taken for granted if SA continue to support the Modi regime.
 
If anybody think GHQ didnt know what SMQ was going to say is living in dream land. This is a strategic move from Pakistan. They have clearly given a signal to Saudi that you need to step up or we will be compelled to make a different decision. t the same time they are reassuring the kingdom that defence ties will remain even if political ties will not be as rosy as before.

The writing is on the wall for the Saudis. They have been given a signal that Pakistan's support cannot be taken for granted if SA continue to support the Modi regime.

this.
 
Surprising move but good on Pakistan to push Saudi but then why is Mr.Bajwa going there?

We need Qatar on our side though..hopefully GOI is doing something about it..

Also Pakistan should go to China, they deal big with Saudi probably could help em unless this is where Armco’s priorities lie although I read they are re-evaluating their deal with Reliance.
 
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IF IK’s administration was expecting this then why is Army Chief traveling to Saudi?
 
My question is are we going to cut-off ties with any country that does not support our stance on the Kashmir issue? Which means we will only be left with China, Turkey and Malaysia as allies? I just question us falling more into China's hands by cutting off ties with important countries in the middle east. At this time we need to weigh the options and consider what is more important? Is it Kashmir or the survival of the rest of Pakistan?

Pakistan can ill-afford to cut ties with Saudi at the present moment, Kashmir or not. The Saudis fund a lot of Madrassas and other charities in Pakistan, not to mention the millions of Pakistani expatriates in Saudi who send remittances home.

I wonder what Pakistan's religious right will think of this? They must be torn between supporting Kashmiris on one had, and condemning the Saudis on the other.
 
The Irony, a bhakt will tell others about alternate reality ..... tell me did you shot down an F-16 with mig-21 ? Yes or No ?

munnay you dont know jack about arab countries and how Pakistani establishment runs deep into thre internal and external security issues .... read my post #89 ....

Wake me up when any threat of Pakistan actually makes any changes in international affairs.
 
Lol this may sound crude but Saudi showed Pakistan it's aukaat. South Asian countries should not try to flex their muscles against the likes of US, China, Saudi etc.
 
Wake me up when any threat of Pakistan actually makes any changes in international affairs.

we dont give a threat, we tame them, just like we tame US in afghanistan .... the “do more” rubbish is gone forever .... our Intel agencies are hunting down ttp inside afghanistan ....

Lol this may sound crude but Saudi showed Pakistan it’s aukaat. South Asian countries should not try to flex their muscles against the likes of US, China, Saudi etc.

if we pull out our security personals , thn thre whole security infra will fall on thre heads ....
 
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we dont give a threat, we tame them, just like we tame US in afghanistan ....



if we pull out our security perssonal , thre whole security infra will fall on thre heads ....

Tame whom? The Saudis? The same Saudis who threatened your vazir-e-azam with dire consequences, forcing him to stay away from the meeting with Mahatir and Erdogan in Kuala Lumpur earlier this year?

Well, whatever rocks the boat in fantasyland....

And security infra??? That probably explains why the Saudis are hiring Israeli security consultants in their hundreds nowadays.
 
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Tame whom? The Saudis? The same Saudis who threatened your vazir-e-azam with dire consequences, forcing him to stay away from the meeting with Mahatir and Erdogan in Kuala Lumpur earlier this year?

Well, whatever rocks the boat in fantasyland....

And security infra??? That probably explains why the Saudis are hiring Israeli security consultants in their hundreds nowadays.

the al saud can say anything about wazir e azam ,,,, but when it comes to pak establishment ... we know how to tame them, we have Iran as the wild card and other factor as well .... and no one gives me the answer about US-afghanistan ....
same indian used to cme here and lecture us that you should do more as US said, and we used to tell them that they dont know jack what we are doing in afghanistan, now same indians are telling us how to handle KSA and al sauds ,,, lol .. this shows that indias know nothing about how deep pak establishment runs into arab countries ....
read the post #89 ....
 
Tame whom? The Saudis? The same Saudis who threatened your vazir-e-azam with dire consequences, forcing him to stay away from the meeting with Mahatir and Erdogan in Kuala Lumpur earlier this year?

Well, whatever rocks the boat in fantasyland....

And security infra??? That probably explains why the Saudis are hiring Israeli security consultants in their hundreds nowadays.

events are moving very very quickly. SMQ and the govt would never have made such a statement unless they had significant geopolitical backing. The saudis are themselves in alot of trouble politically. MBS is facing a number of fronts within the kingdom and without. They need allies too and they dont want to lose Pakistan as an ally either. We have approximately 10k troops on Saudi soil and other service members in training roles. Our defence ties are deep.

Mark my words and I dont normally say phrases like this on this forum but we will see a change in our relationship with them.

The fact they are hiring Isrealis is another area that will initiate changes. There are people in Saudi who disagree with what MBS is doing. We know there is going to be some sort of upheaval. It is inevitable. Pakistan's involvement will remain till the end of whatever.

The China alliance is working overtime at the moment.
 
Tame whom? The Saudis? The same Saudis who threatened your vazir-e-azam with dire consequences, forcing him to stay away from the meeting with Mahatir and Erdogan in Kuala Lumpur earlier this year?

Well, whatever rocks the boat in fantasyland....

And security infra??? That probably explains why the Saudis are hiring Israeli security consultants in their hundreds nowadays.

events are moving very very quickly. SMQ and the govt would never have made such a statement unless they had significant geopolitical backing. The saudis are themselves in alot of trouble politically. MBS is facing a number of fronts within the kingdom and without. They need allies too and they dont want to lose Pakistan as an ally either. We have approximately 10k troops on Saudi soil and other service members in training roles. Our defence ties are deep.

Mark my words and I dont normally say phrases like this on this forum but we will see a change in our relationship with them.

The fact they are hiring Isrealis is another area that will initiate changes. There are people in Saudi who disagree with what MBS is doing. We know there is going to be some sort of upheaval. It is inevitable. Pakistan's involvement will remain till the end of whatever.

The China alliance is working overtime at the moment.
 
Tame whom? The Saudis? The same Saudis who threatened your vazir-e-azam with dire consequences, forcing him to stay away from the meeting with Mahatir and Erdogan in Kuala Lumpur earlier this year?

Well, whatever rocks the boat in fantasyland....

And security infra??? That probably explains why the Saudis are hiring Israeli security consultants in their hundreds nowadays.

Saudis spend 60bn USD on their defence. Thats many times what the pakistanis can afford. They also are under the US security umbrella.

And few pakistanis here think Sauds will be afraid of Pakistanis.

See how the pakistani army chief is running to Riyadh because Saudis have stopped the oil and are demanding their money back.

All these are facts and not claims by 2 pence online OSINTS.

On top of that today UAE has signed agreements with Israel to fully normalize relationship.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1293927128048648193?s=19
 
we dont give a threat, we tame them, just like we tame US in afghanistan .... the “do more” rubbish is gone forever .... our Intel agencies are hunting down ttp inside afghanistan ....



if we pull out our security personals , thn thre whole security infra will fall on thre heads ....

If I’m correct, our army has pledged to protect Makka and Madina. Pulling our security forces out from there is to invite more outrage from the religious right. The best move Pakistan can make here is to develop closer relationship with Iran to show our dissatisfaction with Saudi Arabia. Other than that, I don’t think we can do much to hurt the Saudis.
 
Saudis spend 60bn USD on their defence. Thats many times what the pakistanis can afford. They also are under the US security umbrella.

And few pakistanis here think Sauds will be afraid of Pakistanis.

See how the pakistani army chief is running to Riyadh because Saudis have stopped the oil and are demanding their money back.

All these are facts and not claims by 2 pence online OSINTS.

On top of that today UAE has signed agreements with Israel to fully normalize relationship.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1293927128048648193?s=19

Tbf, the Saudis are only viewed positively by the Pentagon, the military industrial complex and a few US politicians. Overall, the Saudis don’t get the same sympathy from Americans like Israel does.

Also, there’s reports that Saudi and UAE are actually looking for alternative superpower allies at the moment. The US just seems like an ailing superpower and a distrustful ally.

The US and Saudi are only allies due to common goals and financial benefits, nothing more. They don’t share a cultural and historical alliance like the west and Israel does. Wrong to assume that the Saudis are comfortable just because they’re allies with the US.
 
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Tbf, the Saudis are only viewed positively by the Pentagon, the military industrial complex and a few US politicians. Overall, the Saudis donÂ’t get the same sympathy from Americans like Israel does.

Also, thereÂ’s reports that Saudi and UAE are actually looking for alternative superpower allies at the moment. The US just seems like an ailing superpower and a distrustful ally.

The US and Saudi are only allies due to common goals and financial benefits, nothing more. They donÂ’t share a cultural and historical alliance like the west and Israel does. Wrong to assume that the Saudis are comfortable just because theyÂ’re allies with the US.

Culturally China should side with Japan,SE Asia and whole of South Asia should bind together but we know how that works out due to historical blunders and rivalries...

I think except for 5 “eyes” and Turkey- Pakistan ,all others are financial oriented..

Even Latin American countries and Africans don’t get along that well.

Cultural binding is overrated
 
Culturally China should side with Japan,SE Asia and whole of South Asia should bind together but we know how that works out due to historical blunders and rivalries...

I think except for 5 “eyes” and Turkey- Pakistan ,all others are financial oriented..

Even Latin American countries and Africans don’t get along that well.

Cultural binding is overrated

Not in the west. A large portion of their support for Israel is because they share the same Judeo-Christian culture with each other. There’s a good video of Vox on why Israel is supported throughout the Anglosphere and why they hate Iran.
 
Not in the west. A large portion of their support for Israel is because they share the same Judeo-Christian culture with each other. There’s a good video of Vox on why Israel is supported throughout the Anglosphere and why they hate Iran.

Vox like Fox is pretty biased.

There was massive discrimination against Jews even till 1950s..kudos to em for turning a leaf but its because best Jewish minds came to USA and became influential.. and model immigrants don’t think they had any cultural love all of a sudden..after so many centuries..
 
Tbf, the Saudis are only viewed positively by the Pentagon, the military industrial complex and a few US politicians. Overall, the Saudis don’t get the same sympathy from Americans like Israel does.

Also, there’s reports that Saudi and UAE are actually looking for alternative superpower allies at the moment. The US just seems like an ailing superpower and a distrustful ally.

The US and Saudi are only allies due to common goals and financial benefits, nothing more. They don’t share a cultural and historical alliance like the west and Israel does. Wrong to assume that the Saudis are comfortable just because they’re allies with the US.

US just brokered a deal between Israel and UAE. Considering how close UAE and Saudis are, this is the reality thats going to shape the future

US will defend KSA and UAE if the need be. Cultural or not, they are the US pillars in gulf along with Israel.

They really dont need the pakistanis, except that pakistan has let out its army as a cheap mercenary force for arab states. So all these claims by few that Al Sauds are some what afraid of pakistan is laughable.
 
Vox like Fox is pretty biased.

There was massive discrimination against Jews even till 1950s..kudos to em for turning a leaf but its because best Jewish minds came to USA and became influential.. and model immigrants don’t think they had any cultural love all of a sudden..after so many centuries..

Vox has some left-leaning bias but overall they do good work unlike mainstream outlets like CNN, Fox and MSNBC. I like Vice too and they seem much more objective.
 
BJP is just being lucky that inspite of being a **** in Geo politics ,other countries making power moves around the world are benefiting em and in turn India (thankfully).
 
Vox has some left-leaning bias but overall they do good work unlike mainstream outlets like CNN, Fox and MSNBC. I like Vice too and they seem much more objective.

I “used” to love Vice , I liked Vox too before i moved to USA and saw that truth is not that left leaning as they make it sound..
There is a joke that goes around with Vox on every issue in world- “whether they blamed White people for it”.
 
US just brokered a deal between Israel and UAE. Considering how close UAE and Saudis are, this is the reality thats going to shape the future

US will defend KSA and UAE if the need be. Cultural or not, they are the US pillars in gulf along with Israel.

They really dont need the pakistanis, except that pakistan has let out its army as a cheap mercenary force for arab states. So all these claims by few that Al Sauds are some what afraid of pakistan is laughable.

US will broker a deal with any country that wants to normalize ties with Israel. The Saudi-US alliance is very fragile and mostly limited to the military aspect of it. Besides, even the Saudis and the Emiratis are reconsidering their ties with the US in hopes of developing closer ties to China.

Don’t think the Saudis are comfortable with the alliance with US as is seen with MBS’ frustration with Trump wanting to leave Syria.
 
BJP is just being lucky that inspite of being a **** in Geo politics ,other countries making power moves around the world are benefiting em and in turn India (thankfully).

Ofcourse it was some other PM who decided to go to UAE and Saudi to strengthen the ties and who was awarded by them.

Modi at the very start of his tenure deepened the ties with gulf and arab countries. Then with countries like Japan Indonesia etc.
 
Ofcourse it was some other PM who decided to go to UAE and Saudi to strengthen the ties and who was awarded by them.

Modi at the very start of his tenure deepened the ties with gulf and arab countries. Then with countries like Japan Indonesia etc.

Nothing to do with him but the good economy left by UPA.. lets see if BJP can hold it up for next 5 years.

If there is no Reliance ARMCO deal we will see the side effects!
 
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US will broker a deal with any country that wants to normalize ties with Israel. The Saudi-US alliance is very fragile and mostly limited to the military aspect of it. Besides, even the Saudis and the Emiratis are reconsidering their ties with the US in hopes of developing closer ties to China.

Don’t think the Saudis are comfortable with the alliance with US as is seen with MBS’ frustration with Trump wanting to leave Syria.

Saudi US alliance has only grown stronger in order to counter Iran which is close to China. Same with UAE.

Saudis and UAE are getting more closer to the US camp and this deal with israel is just a sign of these things.
 
Nothing to do with him but the good economy left by UPA.. lets see if BJP can hold it up for next 5 years.

If there is no Reliance ARMCO deal we will see the side affects!

UPA? Economy? What are you talking sir!!!!

Please name the UPA PM to visit UAE? Until Modi most govts were not interested in UAE. Modi govt realised the importance of cultivating good relationship with UAE. MbZ has been instrumental in bringing Saudis and India together.

Lol. There will be no side effects of a no deal between RIL and Aramco.
 
UPA? Economy? What are you talking sir!!!!

Please name the UPA PM to visit UAE? Until Modi most govts were not interested in UAE. Modi govt realised the importance of cultivating good relationship with UAE. MbZ has been instrumental in bringing Saudis and India together.

Lol. There will be no side effects of a no deal between RIL and Aramco.

If you say so ..
 
Indians think that Saudis have this master-slave relationship with Pakistan. Treatment of Pakistani(South Asian) immigrants may give that impression but Pakistan army is a different beast all together.

They have saved aale Saud many times and that's our leverage.
 
ISPR chief dismisses talk of Pakistan 'joining new bloc'

Pakistan Army spokesperson Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar on Thursday dismissed the notion that Pakistan was realigning its interests in the region and looking to "join a new bloc".

He denied that the country was seeking to "perhaps join the Russian bloc, and leaving US-friendly ties behind, in view of pressures from India", as put by a journalist during a post-briefing question and answer session in Rawalpindi.

"Let me assure you we are absolutely fine with all our neighbours in the region and our relationship with all our countries we have been engaged with is absolutely fine.

"There is no specific re-alignment as such but yes, the world has become much more inter-connected, much more inter-dependent and much more diverse and that's what this is all about," he explained.

He said there are no re-alignments or blocs being joined. "No such thing. Rest assured."

Relations with Saudi Arabia

In an "exhaustive" exchange with the media at the end of his briefing — the first of its kind since the coronavirus outbreak — the ISPR chief also spoke of Pakistan's relations with Saudi Arabia, an area that has come under much public scrutiny after foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi's recent push for Organisation of Islamic Council (OIC) to convene a session on Kashmir.

When asked to comment on the status of relations with Saudi Arabia and the upcoming visit to the kingdom by Army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, the ISPR chief said Pakistan is proud of its relations with the "brotherly country".

"These relations are historic, very important, have always been excellent and will remain so. There should be no doubt of this," he said.

Maj Gen Iftikhar added: "Nobody should doubt the centrality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to the Muslim world. Our hearts beat with the people of Saudi Arabia. So there is no need to raise any questions on our relations with one another."

He said Gen Bajwa's trip is a planned tour related to military-to-miltary engagements. "There is no need to read too much into it.”

https://www.geo.tv/latest/302629-ispr-chief-briefs-nation-on-indian-atrocities-in-kashmir
 
"Let me assure you we are absolutely fine with all our neighbours in the region“

No offense but seems like jittery responses and actions by Pak Defense..

Atleast this clears one thing IK’s administration was acting on its own when they went about the new bloc thing... which means they are kinda independent..
 
"Let me assure you we are absolutely fine with all our neighbours in the region“

No offense but seems like jittery responses and actions by Pak Defense..

Atleast this clears one thing IK’s administration was acting on its own when they went about the new bloc thing... which means they are kinda independent..

Nothing jittery.

Neighbour reference was for Iran as he was asked about Pakistan joining Russian-Iran-China block.

This is the strategy. Government will show reservation in public whereas those(military) who have leverage over Sauds will deal with them silently.
 
Nothing jittery.

Neighbour reference was for Iran as he was asked about Pakistan joining Russian-Iran-China block.

This is the strategy. Government will show reservation in public whereas those(military) who have leverage over Sauds will deal with them silently.

That’s exactly how BJP supporters speak about Modiji’s master strike and shmartness...
 
Nothing jittery.

Neighbour reference was for Iran as he was asked about Pakistan joining Russian-Iran-China block.

This is the strategy. Government will show reservation in public whereas those(military) who have leverage over Sauds will deal with them silently.

Leverage? Lol. Saudis have the US umbrella over them. Pakistani army is the cheap human resource they used. Your army chief is running to Riyadh to do damage control.
 
Saudis spend 60bn USD on their defence. Thats many times what the pakistanis can afford. They also are under the US security umbrella.

And few pakistanis here think Sauds will be afraid of Pakistanis.

See how the pakistani army chief is running to Riyadh because Saudis have stopped the oil and are demanding their money back.

All these are facts and not claims by 2 pence online OSINTS.

On top of that today UAE has signed agreements with Israel to fully normalize relationship.

https://twitter.com/AdityaRajKaul/status/1293927128048648193?s=19

LOL. You were backing Iran and Russia not too long ago, now you jumped ship to USA and Saudi. Bagal mein churi and all that might come back to bite you when you realise US carries an American rattler in it's armpit. Good luck with those trade negotiations.
 
Leverage? Lol. Saudis have the US umbrella over them. Pakistani army is the cheap human resource they used. Your army chief is running to Riyadh to do damage control.

Once again you're clueless in desperation.

Pak army has been training Saudi army for decades, only recently signed a new agreement. Not much of a cheap resource if they are learning from us.

Army cheif isnt going there to beg, as China quickly gave $1b when Saudis changed their tune. Army Cheif is going to explain in simple terms to the Saudi's , we are the powerful Muslim nation and if they choose India, we will not defend the regime and side towards Iran. Pakistan will always be the protectors of the holy sites, Saudi has no real say on this, we can send our troops into Mecca and Medina if we feel they are under threat, with or without Saudi permission, thats how powerful these puppets are.
 
Saudi govt issues 'fact sheet' highlighting warmness of its ties with Pakistan

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on Thursday issued a 'fact sheet' highlighting depth and warmness of its diplomatic ties with Pakistan.

It elaborated various phases of evergreen brotherly relations between the two countries. Sincerity and commitment between the two sides had been beyond any doubt.

https://nation.com.pk/13-Aug-2020/saudi-govt-issues-fact-sheet-highlighting-warmness-of-its-ties-with-pakistan
 
Once again you're clueless in desperation.

Pak army has been training Saudi army for decades, only recently signed a new agreement. Not much of a cheap resource if they are learning from us.

Army cheif isnt going there to beg, as China quickly gave $1b when Saudis changed their tune. Army Cheif is going to explain in simple terms to the Saudi's , we are the powerful Muslim nation and if they choose India, we will not defend the regime and side towards Iran. Pakistan will always be the protectors of the holy sites, Saudi has no real say on this, we can send our troops into Mecca and Medina if we feel they are under threat, with or without Saudi permission, thats how powerful these puppets are.

You cannot do jack to Saudis. They lead the muslim nations of the gulf. Pakistan is basically asking them for handouts.
 
LOL. You were backing Iran and Russia not too long ago, now you jumped ship to USA and Saudi. Bagal mein churi and all that might come back to bite you when you realise US carries an American rattler in it's armpit. Good luck with those trade negotiations.

The advantage of being a big country with a big economy and astute foreign policy is that we can deal with both the Russians and the Americans. With the Arabs and the Israelis.

Thats diplomacy.
 
LAHORE: PML-Q leaders Chaudhry Shujaat Husain and Pervaiz Elahi have said the Foreign Office should have exercised maximum care with regard to Pak-Saudi relations.

“Saudi Arabia is not only our brotherly country, but also the centre of our religious beliefs. Saudi Arabia has always supported Pakistan in every difficult time,” they said in a joint statement here on Thursday.

The opposition had also criticised Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi’s remarks about the Saudi Arabia-led Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), calling these “highly unfortunate and irresponsible”.

The PML-Q leaders questioned the FO’s diplomacy for ignoring the nature of the country’s relations with Saudi Arabia.

“What was the need for giving such a statement after which explanations have to be given,” Chaudhry Shujaat said and added if one pointed out the mistakes for correction, this was taken as the government’s opposition, and this was not the right attitude.He said that millions of Pakistanis were earning their livelihoods in Saudi Arabia. “Every patriot will foil any attempt to spoil Pak-Saudi relations. Nobody has the right to harm [Pakistan’s] relations with brotherly Islamic countries,” he said.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1574278/pml-q-for-cautious-diplomacy-with-saudi-arabia
 
Lmaoooo the Saudis are really rattled. Meeting Usman Buzdar who is nothing more than a small pawn LOL

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">وزیراعلی <a href="https://twitter.com/UsmanAKBuzdar?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@UsmanAKBuzdar</a> سے سعودی عرب کے سفیر نواف بن سعید احمد المالکی (Mr. Nawaf Bin Saeed Ahmed Al-Malkiy) کی ملاقات: سعودی عرب کے سفیر نے وزیر اعلی پنجاب سردار عثمان بزدار کو یوم آزادی کی مبارکباد دی۔<br>▪︎سعودی عرب کےسفیر کا یوم آزادی پر پاکستانی قوم کیلئے نیک خواہشات کا اظہار <a href="https://t.co/gVFdBYQDY9">pic.twitter.com/gVFdBYQDY9</a></p>— Government of Punjab (@GOPunjabPK) <a href="https://twitter.com/GOPunjabPK/status/1294249600384225282?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 14, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Did you actually READ the article you posted? Except the title, it's everything against of what you are claiming lol.

Should have fact checked the fact sheet by yourself first.

oh countryman of suppa pawwa , thres no "fact sheet" in the article itself, its only describing about the ties of two countries ....
also dont read too much about stopping oil and what not .... we know how to deal with the KSA .... its our matter, none of your concern ....
also, if you still have reservation about article thn sue the newspaper ....
 
Did you actually READ the article you posted? Except the title, it's everything against of what you are claiming lol.

Should have fact checked the fact sheet by yourself first.

Saudis are twisting the arm. Dont go by the brave statements online. Actually the pak army chief is running to Riyadh to get some money and help normalise relationship.
 
oh countryman of suppa pawwa , thres no "fact sheet" in the article itself, its only describing about the ties of two countries ....
also dont read too much about stopping oil and what not .... we know how to deal with the KSA .... its our matter, none of your concern ....
also, if you still have reservation about article thn sue the newspaper ....

I'll just ask this, did you READ THE ARTICLE?

The article shows the relationship that of a master and slave. Or that of an abusive bf who taken advantage of a tamed gf.

I don't know who on right mind will be happy to share stories about such a relationship. Pakistan is non existent in the article.
 
You cannot do jack to Saudis. They lead the muslim nations of the gulf. Pakistan is basically asking them for handouts.

Of course it will make RSS supporters feel better thinking this. Arab population are Muslims, never forget this, they are waking up to Hindu fascism as you very well know. Deluded if you think they care about Hindu Indians more, its only their dictators...for now.
 
Pak has a great opporutnity to side with those opposed to Bin Salman. His father is on his last legs, Pak should make a deal with other princes and support any coup against Bin Salman after his fathers death.

Im guessing Bin Salman will change his tune once army chief explains this is also an option for Pakistan.
 
ISPR chief dismisses talk of Pakistan 'joining new bloc'

Pakistan Army spokesperson Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar on Thursday dismissed the notion that Pakistan was realigning its interests in the region and looking to "join a new bloc".

He denied that the country was seeking to "perhaps join the Russian bloc, and leaving US-friendly ties behind, in view of pressures from India", as put by a journalist during a post-briefing question and answer session in Rawalpindi.

"Let me assure you we are absolutely fine with all our neighbours in the region and our relationship with all our countries we have been engaged with is absolutely fine.

"There is no specific re-alignment as such but yes, the world has become much more inter-connected, much more inter-dependent and much more diverse and that's what this is all about," he explained.

He said there are no re-alignments or blocs being joined. "No such thing. Rest assured."

Relations with Saudi Arabia

In an "exhaustive" exchange with the media at the end of his briefing — the first of its kind since the coronavirus outbreak — the ISPR chief also spoke of Pakistan's relations with Saudi Arabia, an area that has come under much public scrutiny after foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi's recent push for Organisation of Islamic Council (OIC) to convene a session on Kashmir.

When asked to comment on the status of relations with Saudi Arabia and the upcoming visit to the kingdom by Army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa, the ISPR chief said Pakistan is proud of its relations with the "brotherly country".

"These relations are historic, very important, have always been excellent and will remain so. There should be no doubt of this," he said.

Maj Gen Iftikhar added: "Nobody should doubt the centrality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to the Muslim world. Our hearts beat with the people of Saudi Arabia. So there is no need to raise any questions on our relations with one another."

He said Gen Bajwa's trip is a planned tour related to military-to-miltary engagements. "There is no need to read too much into it.”

https://www.geo.tv/latest/302629-ispr-chief-briefs-nation-on-indian-atrocities-in-kashmir

Quite interesting. Many of the statements can be interpreted in many ways and there was no emphatic support of the Saudi Regime.

In fact, from my own observation when one nation is unhappy with the government of another they often talk about ties with the "people" of the country rather than at a government level.
 
Ambassador Al-Malki discusses Saudi-Pak relations with Punjab leaders

ISLAMABAD: Saudi Ambassador to Pakistan Nawaf bin Saeed Al-Malki said on Saturday that the kingdom had always stood by the South Asian nation and would never abandon it during its time of need.

“We have not left Pakistan before and we will never leave it in difficult circumstances in the future as well,” he said during a meeting with Governor Punjab Chaudhry Muhammad Sarwar in Lahore.

The visit of the Saudi envoy to Pakistan’s most densely populated Punjab province coincided with the South Asian nation’s 74th Independence Day during which he held separate meetings with several high-profile individuals in Lahore.

Apart from the province’s governor, these people included Chief Minister Usman Buzdar, Punjab Assembly Speaker Pervaiz Elahi and leaders of various religious parties.

During these meetings, the participants discussed matters of mutual interests including different ways of promoting bilateral relations and cooperation between the two countries.

Al-Malki congratulated the provincial leadership on the occasion of Pakistan’s independence anniversary and expressed well wishes for the Pakistani nation.

“Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are like two brothers,” a statement released by the governor’s office quoted Al-Malki. “We consider Pakistan our home and will continue to play our role for its development.”

The Saudi envoy said that Umrah pilgrims would soon be allowed to visit Saudi Arabia with all the necessary precautionary measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19. He also reminded his interlocutors that the kingdom had successfully managed Hajj this year by prudently limiting the number of pilgrims and implementing stringent precautionary measures.

Governor Sarwar said the ideal relations between the two countries were a source of pride for 220 million Pakistanis.

“Islamabad gives importance to its ties with Riyadh,” he added. “The cooperation of the Saudi government in the development of Pakistan is commendable.”

A handout issued on Friday after the meeting between the ambassador and Punjab chief minister said that the two discussed Pak-Saudi relations and investment opportunities in Punjab.

Buzdar said his administration wanted to “develop a new Lahore to keep the environment of the city clean,” adding that the Punjab government would provide maximum facilities to investors from Saudi Arabia under its one window operation.

He continued that special economic zones (SEZs) were being established in the province and development work on Bahawalpur’s SEZ would soon begin.

The chief minister informed the economic zones would offer special incentives to foreign investors.

In another meeting, the Saudi ambassador also called on Punjab Assembly Speaker Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi and Pakistan Muslim League-Quaid leader Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain.

Elahi told the Saudi envoy that the bilateral ties between the two countries had been further strengthened under the country’s new political administration, while Hussain said that they both enjoyed brotherly relations and no power could undo their strong bond.

https://www.arabnews.pk/node/1719801/pakistan
 
Pakistan's 'Brotherly' Ties With Saudi Arabia Hit 'Rock-Bottom'

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-brotherly-ties-with-saudi-arabia-hit-rock-bottom-/30781532.html

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have long cultivated what both Sunni Muslim countries call a "fraternal" relationship.

But the long-standing economic, political, and military ties between the South Asian state and the oil-rich Middle East kingdom have been based less on common values and more on transactions, experts say.

Riyadh has provided huge financial support in the form of cheap oil and loans to Islamabad, which has been reeling for years from a struggling economy and energy crisis.

As the custodian of the two holiest sites in Islam, Saudi Arabia has given legitimacy to Pakistan's political and military elite, which has promoted a conservative Islamic identity in the country.

Riyadh also allegedly helped fund Pakistan's nuclear weapons program in the 1970s.

In return, Pakistan has sent its forces to help defend the kingdom over the decades.

Islamabad has also cooperated closely with Saudi Arabia to curb the expanding influence in the region of Iran -- Pakistan's western neighbor and Riyadh's mortal foe.

The Saudis have also been allowed to spread their extremist Wahhabi version of Islam in Pakistan through a vast network of mosques and seminaries.

But those close ties seem to have hit rock-bottom as the relationship has hit major snags.

'Stand With Us'

In unprecedentedly blunt comments, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi lashed out at Saudi Arabia for its perceived lack of support for Islamabad's interests in the disputed Kashmir region.

The Muslim-majority Himalayan region is divided between Pakistan and archrival India but claimed by both in its entirety. The two countries have fought three wars over the region.

Qureshi said on August 5 that Islamabad expected the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) -- a group of 57 Muslim countries from Africa, the Middle East, and Asia that is based in Saudi Arabia -- to convene a meeting on Kashmir.

Otherwise, he said, Pakistan would be "compelled" to "call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir," which has been viewed as a threat to create a new bloc that would rival the Saudi-dominated OIC.

The foreign minister mentioned Iran, Turkey, and Qatar, Riyadh's regional rivals with which Pakistan has bolstered ties in recent years.

Qureshi said Pakistan last year pulled out of an international summit for leaders of Muslim countries in Malaysia because of Riyadh's concerns that the meeting could undermine the OIC.

But now, he said, Pakistan was demanding Riyadh "show leadership on the issue" of Kashmir. "We have our own sensitivities," he said. "Gulf countries should understand this. I'm taking a position despite our good ties with Saudi Arabia. We cannot stay silent anymore on the sufferings of the Kashmiris."

Qureshi's comments came on the first anniversary of India's decision to revoke the special status of territory under its administration in Kashmir, a move that outraged Pakistan.

Pakistan's Foreign Office on August 6 defended Qureshi's rare public criticism of Riyadh, saying the minister's remarks reflected the "people's aspirations and expectations."

Game Of Loans

The same day, media reports in Pakistan said the government was forced to repay $1 billion of a $3 billion loan it had secured from Saudi Arabia.

Those loans were part of a $6.2 billion package announced by Saudi Arabia in October 2018, which included a total of $3 billion in loans and a further $3.2 billion loan for oil imports.

Media reports also said Pakistan had not received any oil under the deal since May.

In February, Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman signed investment deals with Pakistan worth $20 billion, including for a $10 billion refinery and petrochemicals complex in the port city of Gwadar.

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was criticized and even mocked on social media for chauffeuring for the crown prince upon his arrival in Islamabad, a move intended to portray the kingdom's importance to Pakistan.

On August 10 -- just days after Qureshi's outburst, the Saudi ambassador in Islamabad met with Pakistan's chief of army staff, General Qamar Javed Bajwa. The military holds an oversized role in the country's domestic and foreign affairs.

A Pakistani government statement said that "matters of mutual interest, the regional security situation, and bilateral defense relations between the two brotherly countries were discussed during the meeting."

'Ungrateful'

"The Saudis have stood by Pakistan in times of need," says Husain Haqqani, Pakistan's former ambassador to the United States and a director at the Washington-based Hudson Institute. "But Riyadh feels Pakistan is less forthcoming in supporting Saudi Arabia on its security concerns while demanding both economic assistance and political support."

Pakistan failed to send troops to help a Saudi-led coalition that has been fighting Huthi rebels in Yemen since 2015.

Meanwhile, Islamabad is wary of the burgeoning economic ties between Riyadh and New Delhi. Saudi Arabia has become India's fourth-largest trading partner and the main source of its oil imports, with bilateral trade at $27 billion annually.

In comparison, Pakistan's bilateral trade with Saudi Arabia stands at just $3.6 billion.

"The Saudis look at Pakistan as an ungrateful recipient of their assistance, including direct budget support, oil supplied on a deferred-payment basis, and several hundred thousand jobs for unskilled workers," Haqqani says. "But for the Saudis, India is a major trading partner and they are refusing to play Islamabad's zero-sum game on India."

In recent years, Saudi Arabia has expelled thousands of Pakistanis for not possessing valid legal documents, although some observers say the expulsions are the consequences of worsening diplomatic relations.

Saudi Arabia remains the main source of Pakistan's remittances. Overseas Pakistani workers sent nearly $19 billion home between July 2019 and April 2020, with $4.4 billion remitted from Saudi Arabia alone, according to the State Bank of Pakistan.

Mosharraf Zaidi, a Pakistani columnist and former diplomat, says the diplomatic row will have "implications" for Islamabad, adding that the government has made "a habit of making bombastic statements about the closest strategic partners of the country."

"Saudi Arabia is not a casual partner of the country," Zaidi says.

Najam Sethi, a prominent Pakistani journalist, wrote in a column that Pakistani-Saudi ties had "hit rock-bottom already" and Qureshi's "outburst is a consequence of this fact rather than a cause of it."

Imtiaz Gul, head of the independent Center for Research and Security Studies in Islamabad, says the spat with Riyadh is an "expression of frustration with the lack of Saudi support on Kashmir and its close economic relations with India."

But he says it does not signal a strategic realignment by Islamabad, which has forged warmer ties recently with Iran. "Pakistan will largely remain aligned with Saudi Arabia and the other OIC countries, including Turkey," Gul says. "The relationship with Iran has been tricky and very wobbly from the very beginning. And I don't expect it to reach to the level of our relationship with Turkey or Saudi Arabia."

'Thoughtless'

Pakistani opposition parties and political commentators have slammed the government for its public criticism of Riyadh, arguing that Islamabad cannot afford to alienate its Saudi benefactors.

Khurram Dastagir, a former defense minister and central leader of the opposition Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) party of ousted Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, said Qureshi's remarks were "most unfortunate and ill-advised" because "we have a long-standing relationship with Saudi Arabia."

Dastagir said that "if there are differences, they should not be expressed in the unfortunate manner as said by the foreign minister."

Farhatullah Babar, a former senator and central leader of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), told RFE/RL that Qureshi's statement was "irresponsible, thoughtless, and undiplomatic."
 
https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-brotherly-ties-with-saudi-arabia-hit-rock-bottom-/30781532.html

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have long cultivated what both Sunni Muslim countries call a "fraternal" relationship.

But the long-standing economic, political, and military ties between the South Asian state and the oil-rich Middle East kingdom have been based less on common values and more on transactions, experts say.

Riyadh has provided huge financial support in the form of cheap oil and loans to Islamabad, which has been reeling for years from a struggling economy and energy crisis.

As the custodian of the two holiest sites in Islam, Saudi Arabia has given legitimacy to Pakistan's political and military elite, which has promoted a conservative Islamic identity in the country.

Riyadh also allegedly helped fund Pakistan's nuclear weapons program in the 1970s.

In return, Pakistan has sent its forces to help defend the kingdom over the decades.

Islamabad has also cooperated closely with Saudi Arabia to curb the expanding influence in the region of Iran -- Pakistan's western neighbor and Riyadh's mortal foe.

The Saudis have also been allowed to spread their extremist Wahhabi version of Islam in Pakistan through a vast network of mosques and seminaries.

But those close ties seem to have hit rock-bottom as the relationship has hit major snags.

'Stand With Us'

In unprecedentedly blunt comments, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi lashed out at Saudi Arabia for its perceived lack of support for Islamabad's interests in the disputed Kashmir region.

The Muslim-majority Himalayan region is divided between Pakistan and archrival India but claimed by both in its entirety. The two countries have fought three wars over the region.

Qureshi said on August 5 that Islamabad expected the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) -- a group of 57 Muslim countries from Africa, the Middle East, and Asia that is based in Saudi Arabia -- to convene a meeting on Kashmir.

Otherwise, he said, Pakistan would be "compelled" to "call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir," which has been viewed as a threat to create a new bloc that would rival the Saudi-dominated OIC.

The foreign minister mentioned Iran, Turkey, and Qatar, Riyadh's regional rivals with which Pakistan has bolstered ties in recent years.

Qureshi said Pakistan last year pulled out of an international summit for leaders of Muslim countries in Malaysia because of Riyadh's concerns that the meeting could undermine the OIC.

But now, he said, Pakistan was demanding Riyadh "show leadership on the issue" of Kashmir. "We have our own sensitivities," he said. "Gulf countries should understand this. I'm taking a position despite our good ties with Saudi Arabia. We cannot stay silent anymore on the sufferings of the Kashmiris."

Qureshi's comments came on the first anniversary of India's decision to revoke the special status of territory under its administration in Kashmir, a move that outraged Pakistan.

Pakistan's Foreign Office on August 6 defended Qureshi's rare public criticism of Riyadh, saying the minister's remarks reflected the "people's aspirations and expectations."

Game Of Loans

The same day, media reports in Pakistan said the government was forced to repay $1 billion of a $3 billion loan it had secured from Saudi Arabia.

Those loans were part of a $6.2 billion package announced by Saudi Arabia in October 2018, which included a total of $3 billion in loans and a further $3.2 billion loan for oil imports.

Media reports also said Pakistan had not received any oil under the deal since May.

In February, Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman signed investment deals with Pakistan worth $20 billion, including for a $10 billion refinery and petrochemicals complex in the port city of Gwadar.

Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was criticized and even mocked on social media for chauffeuring for the crown prince upon his arrival in Islamabad, a move intended to portray the kingdom's importance to Pakistan.

On August 10 -- just days after Qureshi's outburst, the Saudi ambassador in Islamabad met with Pakistan's chief of army staff, General Qamar Javed Bajwa. The military holds an oversized role in the country's domestic and foreign affairs.

A Pakistani government statement said that "matters of mutual interest, the regional security situation, and bilateral defense relations between the two brotherly countries were discussed during the meeting."

'Ungrateful'

"The Saudis have stood by Pakistan in times of need," says Husain Haqqani, Pakistan's former ambassador to the United States and a director at the Washington-based Hudson Institute. "But Riyadh feels Pakistan is less forthcoming in supporting Saudi Arabia on its security concerns while demanding both economic assistance and political support."

Pakistan failed to send troops to help a Saudi-led coalition that has been fighting Huthi rebels in Yemen since 2015.

Meanwhile, Islamabad is wary of the burgeoning economic ties between Riyadh and New Delhi. Saudi Arabia has become India's fourth-largest trading partner and the main source of its oil imports, with bilateral trade at $27 billion annually.

In comparison, Pakistan's bilateral trade with Saudi Arabia stands at just $3.6 billion.

"The Saudis look at Pakistan as an ungrateful recipient of their assistance, including direct budget support, oil supplied on a deferred-payment basis, and several hundred thousand jobs for unskilled workers," Haqqani says. "But for the Saudis, India is a major trading partner and they are refusing to play Islamabad's zero-sum game on India."

In recent years, Saudi Arabia has expelled thousands of Pakistanis for not possessing valid legal documents, although some observers say the expulsions are the consequences of worsening diplomatic relations.

Saudi Arabia remains the main source of Pakistan's remittances. Overseas Pakistani workers sent nearly $19 billion home between July 2019 and April 2020, with $4.4 billion remitted from Saudi Arabia alone, according to the State Bank of Pakistan.

Mosharraf Zaidi, a Pakistani columnist and former diplomat, says the diplomatic row will have "implications" for Islamabad, adding that the government has made "a habit of making bombastic statements about the closest strategic partners of the country."

"Saudi Arabia is not a casual partner of the country," Zaidi says.

Najam Sethi, a prominent Pakistani journalist, wrote in a column that Pakistani-Saudi ties had "hit rock-bottom already" and Qureshi's "outburst is a consequence of this fact rather than a cause of it."

Imtiaz Gul, head of the independent Center for Research and Security Studies in Islamabad, says the spat with Riyadh is an "expression of frustration with the lack of Saudi support on Kashmir and its close economic relations with India."

But he says it does not signal a strategic realignment by Islamabad, which has forged warmer ties recently with Iran. "Pakistan will largely remain aligned with Saudi Arabia and the other OIC countries, including Turkey," Gul says. "The relationship with Iran has been tricky and very wobbly from the very beginning. And I don't expect it to reach to the level of our relationship with Turkey or Saudi Arabia."

'Thoughtless'

Pakistani opposition parties and political commentators have slammed the government for its public criticism of Riyadh, arguing that Islamabad cannot afford to alienate its Saudi benefactors.

Khurram Dastagir, a former defense minister and central leader of the opposition Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) party of ousted Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, said Qureshi's remarks were "most unfortunate and ill-advised" because "we have a long-standing relationship with Saudi Arabia."

Dastagir said that "if there are differences, they should not be expressed in the unfortunate manner as said by the foreign minister."

Farhatullah Babar, a former senator and central leader of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), told RFE/RL that Qureshi's statement was "irresponsible, thoughtless, and undiplomatic."

India's soft power is directly the reason for deterioration in pakistan' s ties with Saudi..
 
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