"Woken up by Azaan in the morning. When will this forced religiousness end in India?" : Sonu Nigam

[ManFan]

Sonu got exactly what he wanted. People to talk about him as any type of publicity is good publicity. As far as the actual issue is concerned, you can either ignore it or prevent it. Most people in the subcontinent wake and go to sleep early so I personally don’t have a problem with them announcing the Azaan. There should however be only ONE loudspeaker and not three at a time. It only lasts about a minute, I’m sure everybody can cope with it. At the end of the day, it’s more or less five minutes of Azaan.

 

[Rajdeep]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In India for almost 50 yrs Azaan on the loud speak was HARAAM Then it became HaLAAL n so halaal that there is no end to it but there should be an end to it Azaan is fine but loud speaker does cause of discomfort for others I hope that atleast this time they will do it themselves</p>— Javed Akhtar (@Javedakhtarjadu) <a href="https://twitter.com/Javedakhtarjadu/status/1259134681066491904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Rajdeep]

Azaan controversy: AIMIM leader says Javed Akhtar not a Muslim; alleges he has RSS connections

AIMIM's Asim Waqar has said that Javed Akhtar is not a Muslim. Calling him an imposter, he further alleged that he has RSS connections and that he is speaking against Muslims because he wants a Rajya Sabha seat in the current regime.

This comes after Akhtar said that the Islamic call to prayer on loudspeakers should be stopped as it causes “discomfort” to others

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...-muslim-alleges-he-has-rss-connections/589816


Well, that was quick.

 

[MenInG]

The Allahabad High Court has held that azaan, or the Islamic call to ritual prayer, can be recited by a muezzin from minarets of the mosques by human voice only without using any amplifying device or loudspeakers.

The court added that such recitation by human voice cannot be hindered under the pretext of violation of the guidelines issued by the state government to contain the spread of coronavirus.

It also said that one can’t use a loudspeaker for azaan without prior permission of district administration in accordance with the law.

“We are of the opinion that azaan may be an essential and integral part of Islam but its recitation through loud*speakers or other sound amplifying devices cannot be said to be an integral part of the religion warranting protection of the fundamental right enshrined under Article 25, which is even otherwise subject to public order, morality or health and to other provisions in part III of the Constitution,” the bench ruled.

“It cannot be said that a citizen should be coerced to hear anything which he does not like or which he does not require since it amounts to taking away the fundamental right of other persons,” the bench added.

However, the court shot down the state government’s contention that its recitation by human voice was violative of any provision of law.

“The government had not been able to explain as to how the recitation of azaan merely through human voice can be violative of any provision of law or any guidelines issued in view of Covid-19 pandemic,” it said.


The Bench, however, kept it open for petitioner to approach the district administration for permission to use loudspeaker for azaan. It added that one can’t use loudspeakers for azaan or for any other purpose without prior permission of district administration.

The bench of Justices Shashi Kant Gupta and Ajit Kumar thus disposed of a PIL filed by BSP MP from Ghazipur, Afzal Ansari, seeking lifting of ban on azaan from mosques in Ghazipur.

The petitioner’s plea was that there is no specific order in the central or state government guidelines to prohibit the recitation of azaan from the mosques. Therefore, the arbitrary decision taken by the district administration of Ghazipur to ban the prayer is illegal.

The state government’s contention, the petitioner argued, was that religious activity of any religious group through loudspeaker has been restricted in the entire Uttar Pradesh in view of the guidelines of lockdown.

Further, according to the state government , the Ghazipur district has been declared as hotspot area. Since azaan is a call for prayer on loudspeaker, hence it has been restricted in Ghazipur.

The state government, in its affidavit, has also submitted a list of instances which have been filed disclosing how people assembled in mosques in Ghazipur following a call through azaan and administration had a tough time to control the situation.

Azaan is recited by a ‘muezzin’, a man who calls Muslims to prayer from the minaret of a mosque at prescribed times of the day.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ourt-orders/story-lXBhvVdLQUycTPjjSAEUjI.html

 

[Slog]

Azaan controversy: AIMIM leader says Javed Akhtar not a Muslim; alleges he has RSS connections

AIMIM's Asim Waqar has said that Javed Akhtar is not a Muslim. Calling him an imposter, he further alleged that he has RSS connections and that he is speaking against Muslims because he wants a Rajya Sabha seat in the current regime.

This comes after Akhtar said that the Islamic call to prayer on loudspeakers should be stopped as it causes “discomfort” to others

https://www.timesnownews.com/india/...-muslim-alleges-he-has-rss-connections/589816


Well, that was quick.

Doesn’t Javed Akhtar himself say he is not Muslim though?

 

[Local.Dada]

Doesn’t Javed Akhtar himself say he is not Muslim though?

Yes, he claims to be an atheist.

 

[Slog]

Yes, he claims to be an atheist.

but you have doubts?

 

[JaDed]

but you have doubts?

Check what followed the statement- “He has RSS connections”, Mr. Akhtar might be an atheist but has never been a right wing supporter.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Check what followed the statement- “He has RSS connections”, Mr. Akhtar might be an atheist but has never been a right wing supporter.

RSS is a mix of left and right wing depending on the issues.

 

[Bigboii]

RSS is a mix of left and right wing depending on the issues.

With a lil bit of racism in the mix

 

[pillionrider]

Are loudspeakers used in all Pakistani mosques?

One of the stories I remember hearing long back was that loudspeakers in mosques was an Indian phenomenon and not present in Islamic countries. The insinuation behind the story was that Indian non-Muslims were being taken for a ride

 

[Slog]

Are loudspeakers used in all Pakistani mosques?

One of the stories I remember hearing long back was that loudspeakers in mosques was an Indian phenomenon and not present in Islamic countries. The insinuation behind the story was that Indian non-Muslims were being taken for a ride

Yes it’s used in all mosques.

Also definitely used in Turkey

 

[Bigboii]

Yes it’s used in all mosques.

Also definitely used in Turkey

In UAE too some Muslim majority areas in US if I remember correctly but don't hold me on this one I am not so sure

 

[Babu Bhaiya]

Why just Azaans!! Loud speakers should be banned completely whether it is used in religious places like temples, mosques etc or in marriage functions.. except for may be important announcements by authorities.

Imagine being sick at home and trying to relax or working on an important project or having a baby or having elderly people or kids trying to study. And continuously forced to listen to bhajans-kirtans or the nonsense bhangra they do at weddings. Its so annoying and disturbing.

If God is so powerful and mighty, You don’t need an amplifier to send your prayers to Him. He can listen to you even if you pray in your heart.

 

[MP2011]

Good decision by Allahabad HC. Why do you need loudspeakers for azaan?

Similarly, loudspeakers should be banned for all congregations, irrespective of the religion.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Good decision by Allahabad HC. Why do you need loudspeakers for azaan?

Similarly, loudspeakers should be banned for all congregations, irrespective of the religion.

How is that a good decision when it doesn't focus on loudspeaker but a specific religion? And you call yourself a liberal? Scratch a hindu and you find an islamophobic beneath.

 

[treker747]

Interesting. Why a Muslim majority area shouldn't have Azan on loudspeakers? It's been happening in the subcontinent for decades so why this decision now? Indian courts acting at the behest of their Hindutva masters.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Interesting. Why a Muslim majority area shouldn't have Azan on loudspeakers? It's been happening in the subcontinent for decades so why this decision now? Indian courts acting at the behest of their Hindutva masters.

Indian court acting on a petition of an Indian directing Indians. They shouldn't and wouldn't care what happens in rest of the subcontinent.

Whats this muslim majority area excuse?

 

[MenInG]

Personally speaking, I dont agree with ALL mosques in an area having loudspeakers.

At prayer time, it results in a cacophony of sounds and takes away the beauty of the azaan as 5-6 different ones get mixed up

There should be some order.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I feel this is a somewhat weak judgement, but also typically wishy washy sort you can get only in India. BJP govt should have given the directive to not only ban loudspeakers for Azaan, but replace them with spiritual chanting from loudspeakers in Hindu temples. If you are going to make India for the majority again, then why beat about the bush?

 

[Adijazz1706]

Personally speaking, I dont agree with ALL mosques in an area having loudspeakers.

At prayer time, it results in a cacophony of sounds and takes away the beauty of the azaan as 5-6 different ones get mixed up

There should be some order.

Yeah its been on my mind for a while

 

[MenInG]

<iframe width="1280" height="731" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wdZXO6UdkaM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Beautiful adhan recited at Canary Wharf, London to coincide with a virtual iftar organised by Tower Hamlets Homes and East London Mosque.

A thing of beauty.

 

[ChTab]

British-Muslim entrepreneur brings Ramadan to a close performing adhan over London’s Tower Bridge

LONDON: A British-Muslim entrepreneur serenaded London’s Tower Bridge with the adhan as the sun set over the British landmark on the last Friday of Ramadan 2021.
Kazi Shafiqur Rahman, 35, delivered the adhan in the style of the Grand Mosque’s head muezzin, Sheikh Ali Ahmad Mulla, wearing a white thobe and Saudi ghutra on Friday as part of an interfaith virtual iftar.
It is a style that he has perfected since childhood and has fueled the British-Bangladeshi’s passion for performing the adhan in public.
Mulla has been a muezzin at the Grand Mosque since 1975 and his voice is recognized by Muslims worldwide regardless of whether they have visited Makkah.
The adhan at Tower Bridge marked the end of an iftar hosted by Tower Hamlets Homes, the East London Mosque & London Muslim Center and Tower Hamlets Interfaith Forum.
Rahman spoke of the huge satisfaction he gets from delivering the adhan in public and how grateful he felt for being given the opportunity to deliver one from Tower Bridge.

“I am just an ordinary individual and for me to be blessed with such an opportunity is humbling,” he said.
Although Rahman has been performing the adhan in mosques and at events for more than two decades, this is the second time he had delivered it at an iconic London location.
Last year, he performed the adhan in the heart of London’s financial district, Canary Wharf, and the video of his performance was watched millions of times.
Rahman added he hopes to deliver the adhan at “other global iconic locations such as the Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque in Abu Dhabi.
“After delivering the adhan in Canary Wharf last year, I realized that the call to prayer is such a strong message and that I was sending it out across the world via social media,” Rahman said.
“It had such a huge reach even on LinkedIn, and many non-Muslims said how mesmerizing they found the adhan, and were asking about what it actually was,” he added.
Rahman said he was initially shocked at the amount of traction the video of last year’s adhan received. “But then I realized that this is the word of God and the call to prayer and therefore it’s bound to reach that many people,” he said.
“The impact of last year’s adhan was just unbelievable. The video reached millions of viewers.”
Ahead of performing the adhan at Tower Bridge, Rahman told Arab News he was nervous as he wanted to live up to last year’s performance.
“I don’t want it to go wrong and I want to live up to expectations. However, I am also reminding myself to do this for the sake of God only. With social media, it’s easy to get sidetracked and think about the traction that this delivery of the adhan will get. But that shouldn’t be my intention. I keep reminding myself that I am doing it for the sake of God and for Him alone.”
London-based Rahman said he thanks God for giving him this opportunity and a melodious voice.
“I am just an ordinary person but I feel like God has favored me with such a voice and such an opportunity, both of which I am grateful for. It gives me a sense of satisfaction that the adhan I am delivering is being appreciated all around the world. It makes me praise God even more.”

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1855521/world

 

[Stewie]

Azlaan is symbolic now and it should be. Use it when it doesn’t cause discomfort to others.
But in this day and age when all Muslims have phones or alarm clocks, they know what time namaz is going to happen everyday and don’t need to be reminded over loudspeakers in my opinion. It does cause discomfort to others.
I’m with Sonu Nigam on that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Azlaan is symbolic now and it should be. Use it when it doesn’t cause discomfort to others.
But in this day and age when all Muslims have phones or alarm clocks, they know what time namaz is going to happen everyday and don’t need to be reminded over loudspeakers in my opinion. It does cause discomfort to others.
I’m with Sonu Nigam on that.

Azaan is same as many other religious rituals in the modern day world, it holds cultural value rather than technical. Like church bells in small villages around western Europe, maybe loved by some but questioned by others. I would imagine hindus like Sonu Nigma would find the sound of azaan particularly annoying in the age of hindu revivalism.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

British-Muslim entrepreneur brings Ramadan to a close performing adhan over London’s Tower Bridge

LONDON: A British-Muslim entrepreneur serenaded London’s Tower Bridge with the adhan as the sun set over the British landmark on the last Friday of Ramadan 2021.
Kazi Shafiqur Rahman, 35, delivered the adhan in the style of the Grand Mosque’s head muezzin, Sheikh Ali Ahmad Mulla, wearing a white thobe and Saudi ghutra on Friday as part of an interfaith virtual iftar.
It is a style that he has perfected since childhood and has fueled the British-Bangladeshi’s passion for performing the adhan in public.
Mulla has been a muezzin at the Grand Mosque since 1975 and his voice is recognized by Muslims worldwide regardless of whether they have visited Makkah.
The adhan at Tower Bridge marked the end of an iftar hosted by Tower Hamlets Homes, the East London Mosque & London Muslim Center and Tower Hamlets Interfaith Forum.
Rahman spoke of the huge satisfaction he gets from delivering the adhan in public and how grateful he felt for being given the opportunity to deliver one from Tower Bridge.

“I am just an ordinary individual and for me to be blessed with such an opportunity is humbling,” he said.
Although Rahman has been performing the adhan in mosques and at events for more than two decades, this is the second time he had delivered it at an iconic London location.
Last year, he performed the adhan in the heart of London’s financial district, Canary Wharf, and the video of his performance was watched millions of times.
Rahman added he hopes to deliver the adhan at “other global iconic locations such as the Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque in Abu Dhabi.
“After delivering the adhan in Canary Wharf last year, I realized that the call to prayer is such a strong message and that I was sending it out across the world via social media,” Rahman said.
“It had such a huge reach even on LinkedIn, and many non-Muslims said how mesmerizing they found the adhan, and were asking about what it actually was,” he added.
Rahman said he was initially shocked at the amount of traction the video of last year’s adhan received. “But then I realized that this is the word of God and the call to prayer and therefore it’s bound to reach that many people,” he said.
“The impact of last year’s adhan was just unbelievable. The video reached millions of viewers.”
Ahead of performing the adhan at Tower Bridge, Rahman told Arab News he was nervous as he wanted to live up to last year’s performance.
“I don’t want it to go wrong and I want to live up to expectations. However, I am also reminding myself to do this for the sake of God only. With social media, it’s easy to get sidetracked and think about the traction that this delivery of the adhan will get. But that shouldn’t be my intention. I keep reminding myself that I am doing it for the sake of God and for Him alone.”
London-based Rahman said he thanks God for giving him this opportunity and a melodious voice.
“I am just an ordinary person but I feel like God has favored me with such a voice and such an opportunity, both of which I am grateful for. It gives me a sense of satisfaction that the adhan I am delivering is being appreciated all around the world. It makes me praise God even more.”

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1855521/world

Would be nice idea without speakers.. could be viewed as antagonistic especially in that place

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Azlaan is symbolic now and it should be. Use it when it doesn’t cause discomfort to others.
But in this day and age when all Muslims have phones or alarm clocks, they know what time namaz is going to happen everyday and don’t need to be reminded over loudspeakers in my opinion. It does cause discomfort to others.
I’m with Sonu Nigam on that.

Same thing with Church Bells right? I mean they are not necessary, buts its done out of tradition. Yet no one ever talks about banning them.

 

[PakLFC]

If anyone has problems with azaan, bells or any other kind of noise then simply put foam made ear plugs in your ears to block all forms of noise. They are so cheap, available everywhere and easy to use too. Sonu Nigam just wants to criticise the azaan unless he has not heard of ear plugs!

 

[Stewie]

How often are church bells rung? And how many churches are around residential areas or how loudly are they rung?

I personally haven’t heard a single one here in the US inside my living area in my 25 years here.
But I could hear like 2/3 different mosque loudspeakers in Lahore, 5 times a day sometimes more, trying to drown each other out.

I always thought it was ridiculous and added to noise pollution. I have an alarm clock that reminds me of prayer times, it’s wonderful. Our imam at the local mosques performs azan over the masjid loudspeaker that only carries within the majid complex, wonderful!

Anything besides that, I believe the non Muslims may have a proper grievance!

 

[PakLFC]

Temple bells in India are rung every time a devotee visits. Hymns are continuously played at the Sikh's Golden Temple as well then why make a fuss off the azaan?. Obviously when Muslim's do it it is a problem where as the world has no problems with non Muslim's celebrating their faith. The hypocrisy and double standards are for all fair minded people to see.

 

[Babu Bhaiya]

I'm a early morning person. I wake up at 5:30 AM most of the times. If someone starts shouting before that, I'd be pretty annoyed too, whether its aarti happening from Hindu temples, Azaans from Maszid or Church bell.

I have even reported to the authoritiesany times about late night DJs and bhangras in wedding ceremonies, late night Saturday parties etc. For that I'm always seen as a villain or party spoiler in my housing society.

Luckily there are no Temples or Mosques in my area. But when i was in Ahmedabad 3-4 years ago, there were so many temples and mosques nearby. They used to always have this competition to outperform other's loudspeakers. Over a period of time, i learnt to adjust because when it comes to religious sentiments, you can't do much.

I'd suggest Sonu Nigam to do so too. Every religion has its traditions. Unless there is a uniform ban on loudspeakers across all religions, you can't just point out Mosques for doing Azaans.

 

[Babu Bhaiya]

Temple bells in India are rung every time a devotee visits. Hymns are continuously played at the Sikh's Golden Temple as well then why make a fuss off the azaan?. Obviously when Muslim's do it it is a problem where as the world has no problems with non Muslim's celebrating their faith. The hypocrisy and double standards are for all fair minded people to see.

Temple bells are not rung on loudspeakers. But some prayers etc definitely are done through it. I don't think majority have a problem when its done on a low volume loudspeakers. I find it pleasing irrespective of religion.

Problem occurs when they start having a competition- whos got a better loudspear in terms of volume.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Growing up in Karachi, the times when Azaan was annoying was when it would interrupt TV programming or someone in the family would say stop listening to music when it was Azaan time. I would sleep right through it in the morning and afternoon naps.

Now a much lighter sleeper, I can totally see how this could be aggravating. It’s not even worth asking religious people to keep it in their house or private lives , doesn’t register.

 

[Itachi]

Temple bells in India are rung every time a devotee visits. Hymns are continuously played at the Sikh's Golden Temple as well then why make a fuss off the azaan?. Obviously when Muslim's do it it is a problem where as the world has no problems with non Muslim's celebrating their faith. The hypocrisy and double standards are for all fair minded people to see.

Church bells, Temple bells don't have speakers to amplify the sound.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Church bells, Temple bells don't have speakers to amplify the sound.

Law says no loudspeaker between 11 pm to 6 am.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Church bells, Temple bells don't have speakers to amplify the sound.

Have you ever heard church bells? I live close to a church and you can hear it from streets all around the vicinity. I know there is one hindu family who lives around the vicinity but they would never dream of complaining about the noise for reasons which are pretty obvious.

 

[Itachi]

Have you ever heard church bells? I live close to a church and you can hear it from streets all around the vicinity. I know there is one hindu family who lives around the vicinity but they would never dream of complaining about the noise for reasons which are pretty obvious.

church bells are a percussion instrument. they don't produce random notes but notes which are related to each other in harmony hence they are nicer to hear.

Azaan, if one sings who has years of training in music, could also be interesting to hear. But most masjid don't have that and clearly you can hear the out of tone notes. Hence, they don't bring pleasurable experience most often.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

church bells are a percussion instrument. they don't produce random notes but notes which are related to each other in harmony hence they are nicer to hear.

Azaan, if one sings who has years of training in music, could also be interesting to hear. But most masjid don't have that and clearly you can hear the out of tone notes. Hence, they don't bring pleasurable experience most often.

Your hindu friend Babu Baiya and other posters have already said in this thread that they don't want to be woken or disturbed by noise early in the morning or at other times, so being a pleasant noise is highly subjective, and also somewhat irrelevant if the complaint is about peace being disturbed.

You would be better off sticking to the story that you just don't want intrusion in your private space of any type rather than inadvertently displaying your Islamophobia.

 

[Itachi]

Your hindu friend Babu Baiya and other posters have already said in this thread that they don't want to be woken or disturbed by noise early in the morning or at other times, so being a pleasant noise is highly subjective, and also somewhat irrelevant if the complaint is about peace being disturbed.

You would be better off sticking to the story that you just don't want intrusion in your private space of any type rather than inadvertently displaying your Islamophobia.

Being pleasent is highly subjective and hence can not be irrelevant of the premise of the thread is unpleasant noises in the morning.

It has nothing to do with religion and don't throw this Islamophobia accusation on others or atleast me where I've clearly stated that if Azaan is performed by a person who has vocational training, it could be pleasent to hear.

The noise pollution is itself deals with sound frequencies and what we call as "pleasent" tones are actually various types of harmonics.

If you don't understand the subject, be open to it as there's nothing wrong in learning new things but don't derail it via bringing Islamophobia against my post which has nothing to do with religion. Let's have a constructive discussion about it which I expect from you as a veteran poster.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Being pleasent is highly subjective and hence can not be irrelevant of the premise of the thread is unpleasant noises in the morning.

It has nothing to do with religion and don't throw this Islamophobia accusation on others or atleast me where I've clearly stated that if Azaan is performed by a person who has vocational training, it could be pleasent to hear.

The noise pollution is itself deals with sound frequencies and what we call as "pleasent" tones are actually various types of harmonics.

If you don't understand the subject, be open to it as there's nothing wrong in learning new things but don't derail it via bringing Islamophobia against my post which has nothing to do with religion. Let's have a constructive discussion about it which I expect from you as a veteran poster.

What you find pleasant someone else might find unpleasant, that is why I said it is subjective. Also the same subjectivity is what renders that pleasant angle irrelevant. Who will decide what is pleasant? Only thing you can really judge on is decibel level and potential to disturb nearby residents, and for that church bells, Azaan and chanting mantras would all fall under the same criteria.

 

[Itachi]

What you find pleasant someone else might find unpleasant, that is why I said it is subjective. Also the same subjectivity is what renders that pleasant angle irrelevant. Who will decide what is pleasant? Only thing you can really judge on is decibel level and potential to disturb nearby residents, and for that church bells, Azaan and chanting mantras would all fall under the same criteria.

The whole theory of music is based upon what constitutes as "pleasent".

Why do you think singers or various instrument players takes years to master the art of singing/playing notes and it's progressions?

human ears have a normal inclination towards harmonic sounds which constitute as "pleasent". take any Genre but all will be fall in the same range more or less. And every one of these notes including the same in different octaves refers to the difference of sound frequencies.

Ask any musician and he will tell you how music is related to sound frequencies.

 

[Itachi]

moreover, church bells and azan, mantras are different because,

church bells are manufactured in such a way that they play the harmonics only. So it will always be pleasent to hear.

But azaan and mantras deals with vocal chords which are flexible and unless you know how to control it, you will miss the exact notes.

But then again, every masjid uses speakers where as a temple rarely uses loud speakers.

 

[90MPH]

There are 2 kind of bigots, one that tells you exactly what they are and what they think and then there is a second kind of bigot known as the closet bigot who try to keep their bigotry hidden but sometimes they just can’t help themselves and blurt out what they really believe.

So these 2 singers I would characterise as the following:

Abhijeet = open bigot
Sonu Nigam = closet bigot

And I say that as I enjoyed many of their songs from the 90s and still do listen from time to time as I’m a nostalgic person. But they are both bigots, alas in different forms.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The whole theory of music is based upon what constitutes as "pleasent".

Why do you think singers or various instrument players takes years to master the art of singing/playing notes and it's progressions?

human ears have a normal inclination towards harmonic sounds which constitute as "pleasent". take any Genre but all will be fall in the same range more or less. And every one of these notes including the same in different octaves refers to the difference of sound frequencies.

Ask any musician and he will tell you how music is related to sound frequencies.

Harmonic or not, not everyone will agree it is harmonic if they are disturbed at 5.30am. In fact even at 9am on a Sunday morning my wife complains about the harmonic church bells disturbing her sleep because she likes to lie in on a Sunday morning.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There are 2 kind of bigots, one that tells you exactly what they are and what they think and then there is a second kind of bigot known as the closet bigot who try to keep their bigotry hidden but sometimes they just can’t help themselves and blurt out what they really believe.

So these 2 singers I would characterise as the following:

Abhijeet = open bigot
Sonu Nigam = closet bigot

And I say that as I enjoyed many of their songs from the 90s and still do listen from time to time as I’m a nostalgic person. But they are both bigots, alas in different forms.

Ye I think you will find a few closet types on here as well, presenting their arguments very carefully to try to avoid that label.

 

[MP2011]

There are 2 kind of bigots, one that tells you exactly what they are and what they think and then there is a second kind of bigot known as the closet bigot who try to keep their bigotry hidden but sometimes they just can’t help themselves and blurt out what they really believe.

So these 2 singers I would characterise as the following:

Abhijeet = open bigot
Sonu Nigam = closet bigot

And I say that as I enjoyed many of their songs from the 90s and still do listen from time to time as I’m a nostalgic person. But they are both bigots, alas in different forms.

This is correct on all counts.

Sonu Nigam specially, I used to hold him in very high esteem, absolutely loved his voice, still do! But for last few years, he has shown his true face, perhaps emboldened to see his types getting feted & given overnight promotions in India under current regime!

 

[Itachi]

Harmonic or not, not everyone will agree it is harmonic if they are disturbed at 5.30am. In fact even at 9am on a Sunday morning my wife complains about the harmonic church bells disturbing her sleep because she likes to lie in on a Sunday morning.

You didn't grasp the concept.

If it's harmonic, more or less it will be melodious and people will tend to forgive easily.

same goes for azaan. if someone who has actual motion of voice control, I don't think much people would have had complained.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I used to hear loud church bells daily, esp on Sundays waking me up. No issues, its nice to hear culture.

Azaan can sound bad with dodgy speakers but at its best, its the most beautiful sound.

We all know Hindutva extremist India is the reality we deal with today.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You didn't grasp the concept.

If it's harmonic, more or less it will be melodious and people will tend to forgive easily.

same goes for azaan. if someone who has actual motion of voice control, I don't think much people would have had complained.

They would if they are on the hindutva bandwagon. I think you did grasp this concept but don't wish to acknowledge it.

 

[Itachi]

They would if they are on the hindutva bandwagon. I think you did grasp this concept but don't wish to acknowledge it.

This is the issue why non muslims tend to avoid any discussion with Muslims. Every aspect, you attribute it to the religion with the addition of victim mentality but fail to see logic behind a possible explanation. This is more prevalent among Muslims than other abrahamic religion Christianity or Jews.

This is why, its easier to share thoughts among non muslims because they atleast don't try to shove down their own perception as the ultimate truth but tries to listen what others might want to say.

 

[guna]

I used to hear loud church bells daily, esp on Sundays waking me up. No issues, its nice to hear culture.

Azaan can sound bad with dodgy speakers but at its best, its the most beautiful sound.

We all know Hindutva extremist India is the reality we deal with today.

In an ideal world, nobody should be hearing anything that they do not want.

If I am praying to Jesus or Yahweh or Ganesh and all of a sudden I hear Allah is greater, I witness that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger, I will feel irritated.

Imagine, you are meditating at your home on Allah's name and you hear the song - "Om Jai Jagadeeh Hare" or "Lord I lift your name on sky..". Will you be happy?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is the issue why non muslims tend to avoid any discussion with Muslims. Every aspect, you attribute it to the religion with the addition of victim mentality but fail to see logic behind a possible explanation. This is more prevalent among Muslims than other abrahamic religion Christianity or Jews.

This is why, its easier to share thoughts among non muslims because they atleast don't try to shove down their own perception as the ultimate truth but tries to listen what others might want to say.

I didn't negate your explanation, merely added another one which offered another viewpoint. Seems you are only willing to debate as long as certain scenarios are not presented, and if they are you attack the poster rather than address the point. But in any case you managed to get in your final dig at Muslims for trying to "shove their own perception as the ultimate truth more than any other abrahamic religion". Very illuminating.

 

[KingKhanWC]

In an ideal world, nobody should be hearing anything that they do not want.

If I am praying to Jesus or Yahweh or Ganesh and all of a sudden I hear Allah is greater, I witness that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger, I will feel irritated.

Imagine, you are meditating at your home on Allah's name and you hear the song - "Om Jai Jagadeeh Hare" or "Lord I lift your name on sky..". Will you be happy?

I have no issues, these are your problems. When I hear religous sounds from any religion, I think of peace and of the people looking for peace. Please remove the hate in your heart towards people of faith, you may become more a human too.

 

[Itachi]

But in any case you managed to get in your final dig at Muslims for trying to "shove their own perception as the ultimate truth more than any other abrahamic religion". Very illuminating.

As I said, you'll see what you want to see.

The post you quoted.... Read my post again. You read what you thought I wrote but what I actually wrote was different.

As I said, you'll read what you want to read.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You didn't grasp the concept.

If it's harmonic, more or less it will be melodious and people will tend to forgive easily.

same goes for azaan. if someone who has actual motion of voice control, I don't think much people would have had complained.

So if mosques on loudspeakers played a recording of an azaan by someone who has per your standards of "actual motion of voice control" then it would be ok? Regardless of the volume and time of day? People would be fine with it?

The problem that most people have is the volume. In Pakistan plenty of Muslims also complain about the noise. However the solution is to have the same standards for everyone. And not just ban Azaan.

You can restrict the time that loudspeakers are allowed. You can restrict the loudspeaker decibel amount. But this needs to apply to everyone. Mosques, Temples, Weddings, etc.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

In an ideal world, nobody should be hearing anything that they do not want.

If I am praying to Jesus or Yahweh or Ganesh and all of a sudden I hear Allah is greater, I witness that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger, I will feel irritated.

Imagine, you are meditating at your home on Allah's name and you hear the song - "Om Jai Jagadeeh Hare" or "Lord I lift your name on sky..". Will you be happy?

But this cant be restricted to religion. I was not happy when my neighbors have very loud parties and i can hear music in the middle of the night. Its very annoying and it disturbed my sleep.

Everyone country should have an acceptable noise level, and you cant exceed that whether its for religion or parties, etc. What you cant do is single out religion.

 

[Itachi]

So if mosques on loudspeakers played a recording of an azaan by someone who has per your standards of "actual motion of voice control" then it would be ok? Regardless of the volume and time of day? People would be fine with it?

The problem that most people have is the volume. In Pakistan plenty of Muslims also complain about the noise. However the solution is to have the same standards for everyone. And not just ban Azaan.

You can restrict the time that loudspeakers are allowed. You can restrict the loudspeaker decibel amount. But this needs to apply to everyone. Mosques, Temples, Weddings, etc.

Its already in place to not to use loud speakers. But in case of masjid, no one officially complaints to not to hurt religious sentiment. most temples don't have loud speakers. But yup, if one has, it should be same for all.

Next, if azaan is performed by someone who has knowledge of music, it can be pleasurable. some people will still dislike it but it won't be in the magnitude which right now does.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So if mosques on loudspeakers played a recording of an azaan by someone who has per your standards of "actual motion of voice control" then it would be ok? Regardless of the volume and time of day? People would be fine with it?

The problem that most people have is the volume. In Pakistan plenty of Muslims also complain about the noise. However the solution is to have the same standards for everyone. And not just ban Azaan.

You can restrict the time that loudspeakers are allowed. You can restrict the loudspeaker decibel amount. But this needs to apply to everyone. Mosques, Temples, Weddings, etc.

Loudspeakers are restricted by law, no loudspeaker from 11pm to 6am.

Weddings parties etc including temples cant use it during that time except under special orders of the court.

Courts have asked police to remove loudspeakers that repeatedly violate this. But due to appeasement policy, mosques have been spared.


https://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/rep...-unauthorised-loudspeakers-in-mosques-2324382

 

[PakLFC]

Church bells, Temple bells don't have speakers to amplify the sound.

That is because they are loud enough. The law must ban the azaan if it is that disturbing.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Loudspeakers are restricted by law, no loudspeaker from 11pm to 6am.

Weddings parties etc including temples cant use it during that time except under special orders of the court.

Courts have asked police to remove loudspeakers that repeatedly violate this. But due to appeasement policy, mosques have been spared.


https://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/rep...-unauthorised-loudspeakers-in-mosques-2324382

They should remove them then, and threaten them with a fine if they if do it in the future.

I dont have a problem believing that Muslims in India would break the loudspeaker restrictions, as Muslims in Pakistan do the same thing. They dont care about the law. However what i have a heard time in believing is only Muslims are breaking this law in India, or they are the only ones getting away with breaking it.

But whether its a Mosque, Mandir, or Wedding, the volume needs to be reduced.

 

[PakLFC]

Temple bells are not rung on loudspeakers. But some prayers etc definitely are done through it. I don't think majority have a problem when its done on a low volume loudspeakers. I find it pleasing irrespective of religion.

Problem occurs when they start having a competition- whos got a better loudspear in terms of volume.

Nonetheless temple bells are loud enough and disturbing for people who live nearby. Now let me you that millions find traffic noise at night to be disturbing too so lets ban that as well. The onus should be on those who find such things disturbing more then believers of any faith. The azaan lasts no more then five minutes a day amount to around 25 minutes in all.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Nonetheless temple bells are loud enough and disturbing for people who live nearby. Now let me you that millions find traffic noise at night to be disturbing too so lets ban that as well. The onus should be on those who find such things disturbing more then believers of any faith. The azaan lasts no more then five minutes a day amount to around 25 minutes in all.

In most cases, traffic serves a practical purpose of getting from point A to B. And transport is something the entire society participates in, it is a shared cost. Some days you need to be in the road late, other days I might. We get each other’s need.

Religious sermons/calls to prayers etc serve no practical purpose other than to motivate followers of that particular religion to pray or whatever. The rest of us couldn’t care less about your prayer needs or practices, it is a private matter.

 

[PakLFC]

In most cases, traffic serves a practical purpose of getting from point A to B. And transport is something the entire society participates in, it is a shared cost. Some days you need to be in the road late, other days I might. We get each other’s need.

Religious sermons/calls to prayers etc serve no practical purpose other than to motivate followers of that particular religion to pray or whatever. The rest of us couldn’t care less about your prayer needs or practices, it is a private matter.

The azaan motivates believers as do bells and hymns. Now don't pick and choose as to what you see as being purposeful or not to suit your own agenda. If the Indian government allows azaan then it is good enough for me. Ban it like the west has and i will have no problem either because the law is supreme.

 

[Third_Umpire]

The azaan motivates believers as do bells and hymns. Now don't pick and choose as to what you see as being purposeful or not to suit your own agenda. If the Indian government allows azaan then it is good enough for me. Ban it like the west has and i will have no problem either because the law is supreme.

That is my point. I don’t care what sounds motivate what religious believers. They ought to keep their business at home, and not make a public nuisance out of it. Your relationship with your god is your business.

Question is not about law; of course if the government allows it, it’s legal. Question is from a principles standpoint, why should society be subjected to unnecessary noise pollution at odd hours of the day.

 

[PakLFC]

That is my point. I don’t care what sounds motivate what religious believers. They ought to keep their business at home, and not make a public nuisance out of it. Your relationship with your god is your business.

Question is not about law; of course if the government allows it, it’s legal. Question is from a principles standpoint, why should society be subjected to unnecessary noise pollution at odd hours of the day.

No that is not how Islam see's it. Now if the Indian government were to ban the azaan then it would be a different thing altogether which Muslim's would have to respect. That they are not doing so suggests it is not disturbing enough people. Simple rule of of majority over minority here where the former obviously does not have any problem with it. If society tolerates things like noisy neighbours and drunkards on the streets then the azaan is easily tolerable too.

 

[Babu Bhaiya]

Your hindu friend Babu Baiya and other posters have already said in this thread that they don't want to be woken or disturbed by noise early in the morning or at other times, so being a pleasant noise is highly subjective, and also somewhat irrelevant if the complaint is about peace being disturbed.

You would be better off sticking to the story that you just don't want intrusion in your private space of any type rather than inadvertently displaying your Islamophobia.

What does my post has to do anything with me being Hindu?

I think my post was pretty balanced. Majority of people don't have issues with Azaans, Bhajans etc.

Its the loudspeakers which are the problem especially when they try to outdo each other. I'll have same issues if its done by Mandirs or churches.

 

[Third_Umpire]

No that is not how Islam see's it. Now if the Indian government were to ban the azaan then it would be a different thing altogether which Muslim's would have to respect. That they are not doing so suggests it is not disturbing enough people. Simple rule of of majority over minority here where the former obviously does not have any problem with it. If society tolerates things like noisy neighbours and drunkards on the streets then the azaan is easily tolerable too.

How Islam sees it is irrelevant. What the country’s laws are is relevant, and I’m not debating that. I’m talking from a principled stance if what should / shouldn’t be permissible.

For noisy neighbors and drunkards, most countries have a solution. Call the cops, who will show up and take care of the situation.

 

[cricketjoshila]

They should remove them then, and threaten them with a fine if they if do it in the future.

I dont have a problem believing that Muslims in India would break the loudspeaker restrictions, as Muslims in Pakistan do the same thing. They dont care about the law. However what i have a heard time in believing is only Muslims are breaking this law in India, or they are the only ones getting away with breaking it.

But whether its a Mosque, Mandir, or Wedding, the volume needs to be reduced.

Muslims are getting away because politicians see them as a votebank.

Indian law says, no loudspeaker between 11pm to 6am. Just stick to that. Everyone should.

If i am not wrong, only one prayer clashes with those timings. No?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What does my post has to do anything with me being Hindu?

I think my post was pretty balanced. Majority of people don't have issues with Azaans, Bhajans etc.

Its the loudspeakers which are the problem especially when they try to outdo each other. I'll have same issues if its done by Mandirs or churches.

Your post was quite balanced. I agree that loudspeakers are an unnecessary modern addition to the Azaan which should be reviewed if it is disturbing nearby residents.

 

[PakLFC]

How Islam sees it is irrelevant. What the country’s laws are is relevant, and I’m not debating that. I’m talking from a principled stance if what should / shouldn’t be permissible.

For noisy neighbors and drunkards, most countries have a solution. Call the cops, who will show up and take care of the situation.

So in that case the government should ban the azaan in India as is the case in the west! What you are saying is that it should be banned in the west because most people don't like it well have a vite or something then. This is the solution to it like police are too other community problems you mentioned.. Your principles only matter and will be adhered to if it becomes law.

 

[Hitman]

Jama Masjid Imam Donates Loudspeakers Removed From Premises To Schools After Govt Order

Only days after Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath said that the loudspeakers at mosques were being donated to schools and hospitals in the state, Kadipura Jama Masjid Imam came forward to donate the loudspeakers at the masjid to schools in the area. Jama Masjid Kadipura imam on Thursday removed loudspeakers and donated them to schools. This comes after the BJP-led UP government issued orders to either turn down the volume or remove the loudspeakers at mosques in the state.

After CM Yogi ordered for the removal of loudspeakers from religious places in the state, district admins have been continuously engaged in action. Following this, the Jama Masjid Kadipura imam took down the loudspeaker from mosques. The loudspeakers were then donated to the headmaster of Talimuddin inter college.

The loudspeakers were donated to the school in the presence of the district magistrate. Making the announcement, Jama Masjid Kadipura imam Zakaullah said that the equipment was being donated so that the school could use it for educating children. Meanwhile speaking about the donation, Mau district magistrate Tribhuvan called it a good message towards supporting education.


Loudspeakers from mosques donated to schools, hospitals: CM Yogi

Earlier on Sunday, UP CM Yogi Adityanath had said that the uninstalled public address systems are being donated to schools and hospitals in the state. Virtually addressing a media conclave organised by RSS-linked weeklies 'Panchjanya' and 'Organiser', Adityanath said, "Now, you must have seen for the first time that Eid Namaz was not performed on roads. You must have heard that either the volume of the mosque loudspeaker has gone down or the loudspeaker has been removed completely. Now, these loudspeakers are being donated to schools and hospitals for their use."

Earlier on May 15, while speaking on the loudspeaker row, CM Yogi had said that the state government had decided to remove loudspeakers from religious places, and nearly 1 lakh loudspeakers were removed in Uttar Pradesh, in order to control noise pollution. Notably, this came days after the UP government had taken action against unauthorised loudspeakers in religious places followed by restrictions on the volume of loudspeakers.

Link: https://www.republicworld.com/india...YDLgYTVjpqAXVW9_xe2gotTx_GyAH7gLPTyrZNTbD9Xl0

 

[Sirris]

This is quite an interesting topic.

An European guy I know, had an Indian gf. Went to visit India, heard the Azaan, found it to be beautiful. Got curious about Islam and is now thinking about converting to Islam.

Now, I see the other side of the picture, of locals being annoyed by it.

 

[Sirris]

Maybe there could be an upper limit to how loud the speaker can be set to

 

[MenInG]

Maybe there could be an upper limit to how loud the speaker can be set to

This is also a problem in Muslim countries

Too many mosques doing Azan together - defeats the purpose.

They should assign one mosque in the area for loudspeaker Azan

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is quite an interesting topic.

An European guy I know, had an Indian gf. Went to visit India, heard the Azaan, found it to be beautiful. Got curious about Islam and is now thinking about converting to Islam.

Now, I see the other side of the picture, of locals being annoyed by it.

Azan sounds beautiful in Islamic countries, many westerners have remarked how they enjoy the feeling of otherness it brings to those places. But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Clearly in India there is less tolerance for it these days as there is a virulent hindutva campaign against Islamic culture across the board, although they seem happy enough to jump on board with western culture.

For what it's worth, I've said this before but I quite like church bells on a Sunday morning, but my wife hates them because they wake her up. I'm usually up anyway at that time so no big deal for me, but it's not absolutely necessary to have azan played through loudspeakers if it will stir up hindu nationalists.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Its lovely to hear the Azaan echoing when visiting muslim majority countries, but I sympathise with these non-muslims in India.

If its disturbing them so much then it should be toned down.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Church bells have been ringing nearby non-stop today, don't know why. I imagine there are a few hindus living close by but none of them have complained. These bells are either massivle in dimension or maybe electronically enhanced. I love it actually.

 

[IMMY69]

Church bells have been ringing nearby non-stop today, don't know why. I imagine there are a few hindus living close by but none of them have complained. These bells are either massivle in dimension or maybe electronically enhanced. I love it actually.

The two sounds I love the most.
The Azan and church bells ringing in the distance.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The two sounds I love the most.
The Azan and church bells ringing in the distance.

I suppose you won't find many Hindu's living close to a church

You'd be surprised. There is a few live around here but you would never hear a peep from them in complaint.

 

[IMMY69]

You'd be surprised. There is a few live around here but you would never hear a peep from them in complaint.

So it's just the azan then.