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South Africa (489 & 260/5d) defeat India (201 & 140) by 408 runs in the 2nd Test to complete a 2-0 whitewash

Nikhil_cric said:
As much a story of South Africa's revival in Test cricket as much as India's decline.

They were nowhere 3 years ago. But investing in the SA20 and rotating their players has reaped rich dividends.

They rested their main players from the white ball leg of the PAK tour whereas some of our guys were in Australia 3 days before this Test series began.
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That's true. In previous years, Kohli, Bumrah, Rohit would have been rested for a much more important test series, yet for some reason Gill, Bumrah, Kuldeep were all playing that T20 series.

But yes, South Africa's revival and the incredible talent pool of players they have right now bears repeating. Rabada didn't play a single test, and Coetzee is injured, and they still had Bosch, Burger, Ngidi on the bench. I can't recall them ever having a spin-attack this good where Maharaj was forced to play second fiddle to Harmer, and Muthusamy barely bowled at all. Even guys like De Zorzi who had question marks over have stepped up big time. Bedingham who has had some pretty good performances for South Africa can't even find a place in the squad.
 
With the next test series so far away for India, the sting of this loss will be felt for a long time.
 
amvbfm said:
Ashwin was an ATG especially in Indian conditions, a very intelligent bowler. And you can't replace a specialist, that too a great one, with bits and pieces players like Sundar or Patel. If India want to continue preparing spinning wickets, then they too need to find experienced specialist FC spinners like Nauman and Harmer. It is time they put aside IPL performances when selecting test squads and rely more on Ranji and overall FC performances. It is also a sin not to have Shami in the mix. The selection has been appalling to say the least, I was really perplexed when I saw the team for the first test. As i said earlier, don't know whether it was ineptitude or arrogance, but no sane coach would have picked that kind of team, that too against a team that has been performing consistently well and just leveled a series on dustbowls in Pakistan. Fortunately for India, they have the resources they need to succeed, but only if their management is willing to learn from this debacle.
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Tbh, I think Shami has reached the end of the line. His fitness is not good enough for ODI cricket, let alone Test cricket. If they could have him in the side, they would. As for the rest, there is not much logic to some of the decisions they have made in this series, particularly, packing the side with all-rounders who delivered neither with the bat or ball. In one match Washington Sundar was batting at No. 3, and in the next he was batting at 9. Why? Nitish Kumar Reddy is a total IPL selection, and while you can understand it for a SENA tour, it doesn't make much sense in India. Historically speaking, India have rarely ever had or needed a seam-bowling all-rounder for home tests since the days of Kapil Dev. It's always been about batsmen and spinners who know the conditions well.

During the Kohli era, we saw the emergence of Shami and Umesh who were very good at exploiting the conditions through quality seam-bowling and reverse-swing, but even during the Kohli era India used to generally be playing with four bowlers. At most, five if the conditions were highly spin-friendly.
 
Boy, what an absolute towelling....!

Total phainta...

Well played to SAF - they came here, their abilities and fighting spirit shone through, and almost every team member contributed.

I just love the likes of Simon Harmer -dude got selected, got discarded -did the hard yards in domestics - must have thought if his time is up, comes back improved, determined and is an instant success....this is role model worthy....

and i enjoyed his attitude, the way he played - it was full of a man living his dream and realizing it....

also enjoyed Senuran muthsamy - similar to Harmer - another guy who ttoiled and comes back totally different....

To our guys - am guessign this shellacking will cause some disruption.

I sincerely hope we do away with the patheric thaka hua spin bowl pitches and kolkata was the last time in Indian cricket history we see such a pitch.

I sincerely hope we make sporting bouncy wickets which has something for each trade of bowlers and batsmen to thrive if they are good enough.....

I would still back our robust system to handle this loss and come back better and improved.

for the time being - Awesome game to the Saffers!
 
During the Kohli-era India looked like a top-class team that was invincible at home and very good away from home aswell. I think alot of Indian fans' appreciation for that era and Kohli's leadership will grow even more after seeing this lousy team. And I say Kohli's leadership because Kohli at one point was a very powerful captain who was taking alot of key decisions that would generally be taken by the head-coach.

They even sent Kumble packing because he and Kohli couldn't get along, and brought Shastri on as a figurehead head-coach. Credit to Kohli though, he believed in his vision and delivered the results including a maiden series win in Australia. Ofcourse he was only human and bound to lose his power with his loss of form, but when he was on top, he ensured that India were a formidable force in Test cricket.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
As much a story of South Africa's revival in Test cricket as much as India's decline.

They were nowhere 3 years ago. But investing in the SA20 and rotating their players has reaped rich dividends.

They rested their main players from the white ball leg of the PAK tour whereas some of our guys were in Australia 3 days before this Test series began.
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They make for an interesting case study, because they have done a lot of things that at the outset seemed like would lead to their downfall, but have remained strong across all formats as a result.
 
So just stating the bleedin obvious - SaFFers do not care about IPL contracts :faf :Dah

neither did NZ in 2024...

Else india woudl have swept both series...like they did from 2012 to 2024:salute
 
thrashing of the highest order, india's heaviest test defeat in history by number of runs
surely has to be huge question marks over gambhir's place in red ball cricket
 
Obaidd said:
With the next test series so far away for India, the sting of this loss will be felt for a long time.
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BCCI should give India series vs Bangladesh, Ireland, WI, Afghanistan and England, Zimbabwe only in next WTC cycle
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Congratulations to India on successfully completing sindoor 2.0 pasted by SA.

Now India should invite their idealogical brother Afg and Unleash Bumrah on them
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Thanks for the Congratulations and wish you the same for the three zip trilogy in September- OCT as part of Op Manhoos buniyan 2.0....

Maybe you guys will invite Papa USA for the revenge series for loosing twice in the same match in t20wc 2024!
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
current-state-baby-run-into-wall.gif
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Bhai this is not funny. Lives of rajistan passengers are on stake.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Tbh, I think Shami has reached the end of the line. His fitness is not good enough for ODI cricket, let alone Test cricket. If they could have him in the side, they would. As for the rest, there is not much logic to some of the decisions they have made in this series, particularly, packing the side with all-rounders who delivered neither with the bat or ball. In one match Washington Sundar was batting at No. 3, and in the next he was batting at 9. Why? Nitish Kumar Reddy is a total IPL selection, and while you can understand it for a SENA tour, it doesn't make much sense in India. Historically speaking, India have rarely ever had or needed a seam-bowling all-rounder for home tests since the days of Kapil Dev. It's always been about batsmen and spinners who know the conditions well.

During the Kohli era, we saw the emergence of Shami and Umesh who were very good at exploiting the conditions through quality seam-bowling and reverse-swing, but even during the Kohli era India used to generally be playing with four bowlers. At most, five if the conditions were highly spin-friendly.
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On these pitches you don't need workhorse bowlers. That responsibility goes to your spinners. I'm sure Shami can manage two 8-10 over spells a day. I would still rate him above the likes of Akash, Rana etc.

3 allrounders, 2wk and 4 spinners (including the allrounders) in the first test. That's mind-boggling. Even on dustbowls you don't need more than 2 spinners, a third could probably be justified as an allrounder but 4 is surely overkill and will never be utilized. And then the even more horrid decision to replace Patel with Reddy in the second test. What exactly was his role in the team? He didn't even bowl any overs.

From very conventionally balanced teams in tests, India has been slowly drifting towards very weird combinations, trying to copy T20 squads. Ashwin's departure has effected their balance as well as he was also a solid bat. The surprising thing is that rather than counter the loss of experienced batting in Kohli and Rohit with specialist bats they have instead gone the other way picking allrounders and totally losing the plot. They seem to be confused about their strengths and trying to hedge it both ways with allrounders, some of whom aren't test level players. Sundar is a capable bat but he is certainly not a top order test bat and no sensible coach would ever play him in a position usually reserved for the team's best batsman.

I think they just need to keep things simple and go with more specialist players, especially at home.
 
Devadwal said:
I can see a guy from India :intiactive today as he only post whenever india lost the matches but hide whenever India won 🤡🤡🤡 :klopp :kp
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My prediction was spot on. He Is roaming here because india lost.
 
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amvbfm said:
On these pitches you don't need workhorse bowlers. That responsibility goes to your spinners. I'm sure Shami can manage two 8-10 over spells a day. I would still rate him above the likes of Akash, Rana etc.

3 allrounders, 2wk and 4 spinners (including the allrounders) in the first test. That's mind-boggling. Even on dustbowls you don't need more than 2 spinners, a third could probably be justified as an allrounder but 4 is surely overkill and will never be utilized. And then the even more horrid decision to replace Patel with Reddy in the second test. What exactly was his role in the team? He didn't even bowl any overs.

From very conventionally balanced teams in tests, India has been slowly drifting towards very weird combinations, trying to copy T20 squads. Ashwin's departure has effected their balance as well as he was also a solid bat. The surprising thing is that rather than counter the loss of experienced batting in Kohli and Rohit with specialist bats they have instead gone the other way picking allrounders and totally losing the plot. They seem to be confused about their strengths and trying to hedge it both ways with allrounders, some of whom aren't test level players. Sundar is a capable bat but he is certainly not a top order test bat and no sensible coach would ever play him in a position usually reserved for the team's best batsman.

I think they just need to keep things simple and go with more specialist players, especially at home.
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Can he though? Because he has been breaking down pretty regularly, even in domestic games. That's why he was left out of the England and Australia tours. Plus, the nature of his injuries (ankle, knee) can be very dangerous if aggravated. And even if he was somehow fit to play, you can't rely on him anymore. I refuse to believe he is 35 years old...he looks much older. How long are they going to continue to rely on him? Realistically speaking, he was done in 2023. But now it's been two years battling injuries. He needs to be realistic and retire from international cricket so he can atleast still make some money from IPL.

Yeah like I said, not much logic behind some of these decisions. What I don't understand is how consistent domestic performers like Karun Nair and Sarfaraz can be dropped completely after a few failures, but Sai Sudharsan is persisted with at 3 because I guess Gambhir thinks he has talent? I'm not saying that Nair and Sarfaraz are the next Pujara and Kohli, but there is a far greater track-record of success in red-ball than someone like Sudharsan, who apparently has the lowest first-class average ever for an Indian batsman who has batted at No. 3 in Test cricket. I'm sure there are other domestic performers too who have been kept back over these IPL performers. Some of these selections and decisions mirror selections and decisions that Pakistani selectors often tend to make.

Yes, they definitely have a sizeable pool of talent but the strategy and tactics have been uncharacteristically poor. Especially because in the recent past, India has been one team that has had complete command of their home conditions. Not all the blame falls on Gambhir either, the selectors share alot of it too.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
They make for an interesting case study, because they have done a lot of things that at the outset seemed like would lead to their downfall, but have remained strong across all formats as a result.
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Yes, they do. All other boards will have to emulate them especially now that we know that even Cricket Australia are struggling with their finances.
 
I wonder if SA would've won the first test in Lahore if bavuma was fit.
They've won in Bangladesh and India and Sri Lanka is the last place left to tour.
Remarkable performance from them

Its sad how Harmer was robbed of an ATG test career. Already a legend in county cricket for taking truckloads of wickets every season. He is clearly far superior to Maharaj and should've been the one with 60-70 tests
 
I am guessing Gauti is relying too much on chatgpt. That’s the only possible explanation for some of the selections and decisions. He’s learning the hard way that chatgpt will make mistakes. Only unhinged AI could suggest moving Washy to no. 3 and back to no. 9 in space of two matches.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Can he though? Because he has been breaking down pretty regularly, even in domestic games. That's why he was left out of the England and Australia tours. Plus, the nature of his injuries (ankle, knee) can be very dangerous if aggravated. And even if he was somehow fit to play, you can't rely on him anymore. I refuse to believe he is 35 years old...he looks much older. How long are they going to continue to rely on him? Realistically speaking, he was done in 2023. But now it's been two years battling injuries. He needs to be realistic and retire from international cricket so he can atleast still make some money from IPL.

Yeah like I said, not much logic behind some of these decisions. What I don't understand is how consistent domestic performers like Karun Nair and Sarfaraz can be dropped completely after a few failures, but Sai Sudharsan is persisted with at 3 because I guess Gambhir thinks he has talent? I'm not saying that Nair and Sarfaraz are the next Pujara and Kohli, but there is a far greater track-record of success in red-ball than someone like Sudharsan, who apparently has the lowest first-class average ever for an Indian batsman who has batted at No. 3 in Test cricket. I'm sure there are other domestic performers too who have been kept back over these IPL performers. Some of these selections and decisions mirror selections and decisions that Pakistani selectors often tend to make.

Yes, they definitely have a sizeable pool of talent but the strategy and tactics have been uncharacteristically poor. Especially because in the recent past, India has been one team that has had complete command of their home conditions. Not all the blame falls on Gambhir either, the selectors share alot of it too.
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Seems to be having no problem bowling 20-25 overs per innings in the ongoing Ranji matches.

Sai is another of those IPL selections. He was mighty impressive in IPL, and they went and picked him for tests but not in T20is. Totally mind boggling. Sarfaraz, Nair, Gaikwad, Patidar, Tilak should all be much higher on the list than him. It does look like a typical Pakistani (or should i call it a sub-continental) selection.
 
Hate waking up to test losses but this one was seen coming, need a different mindset and coach too.. some terrible performances, this along with Kiwi test series are some of the worst memories for a test series at home.

Gauto maybe not cut out for Test cricket coaching.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Yasir Shah has a ton in Australia. One fluke innings means nothing. I’ve seen him bat live when I watched the test matches in England. He was struggling finding gaps and never looked like he belonged at the international level. Doesn’t help that he doesn’t bowl much which means he’s competing with proper batsmen like Khan, Iyer, Gaekwad, etc.
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Babar also has a ton in Australia lol .One fluke inning means nothing.
 
Devadwal said:
Only difference was Pakistan winning a toss otherwise we know how pathetic they are at home or Away 🤣🤣🤣 :klopp
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Just like India won three matches in the Asia cup against Pakistan because they batted first. We all know how chasing is much easier in the UAE.:kp
 
Rajdeep said:
Target 515.

Jaiswal 320, Rahul 85, Sudarhan 45, NKR 60*, Pant 5 *

India win by 5 wickets.
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No brother you are wrong, Jaiswal remained unbeaten while overtaking Lara, and mocking Mulder for his 365*....Took the side home like a boss 😎
 
Lol imagine getting a pasting so hard, you got owned after rigging your own pitches.

Aukat mei raho, great to see a beating from world champions
 
sweep_shot said:
Yes.

South Africa are #1 in Test now.

If India and South Africa play again, I think SA should whitewash India again whether they play it in South Africa or India. :inti
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AU no 1 officially, however completely agreed SA TRUE #1 team as of now - the best team in every aspect.
 
I have no idea if Harmer is gonna be the part of T20 squad for the WC. He can cause some damage there. He has NEVER played for SA in T20Is though.
 
Great day for cricket

Absolutely loved the humiliation of back to back white wash

Long this humiliation may continue 💪
 
Savak said:
Indian's underestimated South Africa.
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Nope it was more than that, underestimating them would had caused us defeats we got thrashed in our home, literally need to change the way we approach test cricket at home.

Planning players everything will require a change.. and that’s fine but Gauti/BCCI have to be held accountable.
 
gazza619 said:
I was the first one to say this even before the kick off and @Devadwal was laughing.
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I wrote on November 9 that South Africa could whitewash India. :inti

sweep_shot

Post in thread 'South Africa tour of India (2025)'

Mobashir said:
I hope this will be continuation of what NZ did to India in India. A 2-0 for the visitors will be nice. Only thing that can stop this will be the late order batsmen from india. They tend to score some crucial runs in India.
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Yup.

I think South Africa are fully capable of whitewashing India in India. Golden opportunity.

India are doing well in T20 but they are declining in Test. That was evident in their last 10 Tests. :inti
  • Like
 
hassan918 said:
Maybe they didn't want him to bowl useless overs. The match was gone for India.
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It is cricket. Bumrah didn't let SA score 26 off 24 in WC final with 6 wickets in hand.

Bumrah didn't let Pak score 47 off 48 with 7 wickets in Hand.

So anything can happen in cricket.
 
sweep_shot said:
I wrote on November 9 that South Africa could whitewash India. :inti

sweep_shot

Post in thread 'South Africa tour of India (2025)'

Mobashir said:
I hope this will be continuation of what NZ did to India in India. A 2-0 for the visitors will be nice. Only thing that can stop this will be the late order batsmen from india. They tend to score some crucial runs in India.
Click to expand...

Yup.

I think South Africa are fully capable of whitewashing India in India. Golden opportunity.

India are doing well in T20 but they are declining in Test. That was evident in their last 10 Tests. :inti
  • Like
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Sweep shot bhai, you said SA could, and I said SA would.

It’s different :ifticool
 
amvbfm said:
Seems to be having no problem bowling 20-25 overs per innings in the ongoing Ranji matches.

Sai is another of those IPL selections. He was mighty impressive in IPL, and they went and picked him for tests but not in T20is. Totally mind boggling. Sarfaraz, Nair, Gaikwad, Patidar, Tilak should all be much higher on the list than him. It does look like a typical Pakistani (or should i call it a sub-continental) selection.
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Just don't think it's worth the risk. For one thing, he may not always have to bowl 8 overs. The requirement could change depending on the conditions and what the team needs from him. On top of that, it's not exactly fair to the bowlers who are performing in domestic cricket, and for India. Akash Deep for instance, hasn't done badly at all and has bowled some key spells at home and in England. Also, if Shami is playing then you need him in SENA. And I don't think his body can handle those tours anymore considering his age and history of injuries. I think they are better off moving on, and he is better off preserving his body for whatever IPL cricket he can still play.

TBH if you're selecting someone on talent, why not select someone who is talented and has the domestic numbers to back it up? Tilak Varma checks both boxes in this regard. That's the type of player who is worth investing in at No. 3. Sarfaraz can bat at 5. And Karun Nair is a decent short-term option at 3 or 5.

Iyer is another player who could have been in the team but he doesn't seem too interested in playing Test cricket.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Just don't think it's worth the risk. For one thing, he may not always have to bowl 8 overs. The requirement could change depending on the conditions and what the team needs from him. On top of that, it's not exactly fair to the bowlers who are performing in domestic cricket, and for India. Akash Deep for instance, hasn't done badly at all and has bowled some key spells at home and in England. Also, if Shami is playing then you need him in SENA. And I don't think his body can handle those tours anymore considering his age and history of injuries. I think they are better off moving on, and he is better off preserving his body for whatever IPL cricket he can still play.

TBH if you're selecting someone on talent, why not select someone who is talented and has the domestic numbers to back it up? Tilak Varma checks both boxes in this regard. That's the type of player who is worth investing in at No. 3. Sarfaraz can bat at 5. And Karun Nair is a decent short-term option at 3 or 5.

Iyer is another player who could have been in the team but he doesn't seem too interested in playing Test cricket.
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Tilak indeed looks like a fine prospect. He seems to have both talent and temperament. But probably more suited to playing at 4 or 5.
 
IND just wont be the same team after retirement of Kohli. He also had great influence in improving Indian fast bowling. After retirement of Bumrah, IND could go back to OG Ishant Sharma days.
 
BDfanforever said:
IND just wont be the same team after retirement of Kohli. He also had great influence in improving Indian fast bowling. After retirement of Bumrah, IND could go back to OG Ishant Sharma days.
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And the sad part is we don't have Zawad Abrar level talents coming through the ranks either.
 
amvbfm said:
Tilak indeed looks like a fine prospect. He seems to have both talent and temperament. But probably more suited to playing at 4 or 5.
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Yeah, everyone wants to bat at 4 but nobody wants to bat at 3. Considering the fact that Gill is captain, I don't see him changing his position and Pant is the guy for 5. So unfortunately for Tilak Varma that only leaves behind 3.
 
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