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Would India have been able to compete with Australia if they had Smith, Warner, Bancroft, Pattinson?
- Thread starter Bhaijaan
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Chrish
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1 game.
But if he had played all three (or was it four?) games, would India have been able to compete with Australia??
Gotta love Dada for speaking the truth without demeaning the achievement. Yes, we won the Australian series fair and square and we should be proud of it but we will be fools to not admit that we were very very lucky because of Warner and Smith being not there. He has also raised the pertinent point of not winning icc trophies, great teams falter once in a while, whereas current Indian team, which cheerleader Shastri and Kohli believe is the greatest ever Indian team, has just not won even a single ICC trophy.
India did well to beat us in Australia even without Smith and Warner you can't take anything away from India.
But I think this time we will smash India, Cummins is the best bowler in the world, Starc is good, Hazlewood is good and with Pattinson back we have the best fast bowling attack in the world.
That's 3 bowlers who bowl 145+ and Hazlewood who bowls at 140+ Lyon is getting old but can be dangerous.
Brisbane is a fast track with bounce but Perth is the bounciest track, then if they play in Hobart which helps the swing bowlers the SCG is a spinner's track and with the MCG they are trying to get it back to swing and pace pitch that it used to be.
But I think this time we will smash India, Cummins is the best bowler in the world, Starc is good, Hazlewood is good and with Pattinson back we have the best fast bowling attack in the world.
That's 3 bowlers who bowl 145+ and Hazlewood who bowls at 140+ Lyon is getting old but can be dangerous.
Brisbane is a fast track with bounce but Perth is the bounciest track, then if they play in Hobart which helps the swing bowlers the SCG is a spinner's track and with the MCG they are trying to get it back to swing and pace pitch that it used to be.
Aman
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Cummins has only gotten better and is clearly the best bowler in the world. Add Pattinson into the mix and they will trouble a strong Indian batting line up.
That spell he bowled yesterday was one of the best I've seen. Never relented, we couldn't get anything away despite the track not offering that much. Not a single drive and when we did, it found the edge.
That spell he bowled yesterday was one of the best I've seen. Never relented, we couldn't get anything away despite the track not offering that much. Not a single drive and when we did, it found the edge.
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Aman
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Not surprising India didn't want to play at the Gabba.. don't think they've lost a Test there ever/or in a ridiculously long time.
Hasan123
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New Zealand and all other nations barring India would have still been defeated by Australia last summer in Australia.
Australia were weak earlier in the decade and still were difficult to beat at home.
Australia were weak earlier in the decade and still were difficult to beat at home.
WhenSultansBowled
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So unfair.
This is as if Aussies are playing the game with cheat codes on. What an impressive attack. (like WIs of 80s, dare I say)
PS: Lyon is worth his weight in gold; especially if you consider how ineffective offies/etc are in Australia.
Yeah, and we have a few young fast bowlers in reserve at the academy if Pattinson can stay fit for the India series we will demolish the Indians.
They were very lucky last time they had a demoralized Aussies team, but can't take anything away from India. And they still only just won the series, so looking forward to seeing the rematch with a full-strength Aussie side.
Manunited18
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A full strength Australia team are to strong at home, but if any team that can challenge them in Australia then it's India, not because of their batting, bar kohli and pujara this is a weak Indian batting line up, it's their pace attack that's very impressive aided with chuckwin
Manunited18
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Whose the young quicks coming through, jye Richardson and Meredith?
Manunited18
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If Australia can get back the old charastrictis of each of their test venues then they will be strong for sure
tyron_woodley
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if australia wins the toss it's over.
If india wins the toss it's over too.
None barring starc consistently touch 145 plus. Pattinson bowls on average around 136-139. Hazelwood is the same. Even ishant can bowl the odd ball around 150 mark. Cummins barely bowls over 140. He is more around 138 as well.
Virat's india is different. They actually have a world a class bowling attack as good as the Aussies. last time around they even bowled quicker. If bumrah is back to his best post injury, it will be tough battle for australia.
I can see both teams winning but Aussies should be favourites. In saying that if any team has a chance to beat australia in australia it's india. Toss matters in australia unfortunately. You lose the toss, then you lose half the battle already.
https://www.gladstoneobserver.com.a...n-preview-australias-next-generation/3518873/
David Moody - 23 years old - around 140km/h
12 List A matches - 12 wickets at 43.50
21 first-class matches - 67 wickets at 35.22
Right-arm quick David Moody made his first-class debut for Western Australia in 2015 and has been a regular for the Warriors since.
He has racked up 21 first-class appearances, and a further 12 List A matches for the state, taking a total of 79 wickets (36.48) in all forms.
Last year, he took six wickets at 35.83 across five games at the One-Day Cup.
Aaron Summers - 22 years old - >140km/h
One T20 match - no wickets, 10.33 runs per over
Riley Meredith - 22 years old - >140km/h
Seven List A matches - five wickets at 65.80
Two first-class matches - two wickets at 68.50
Two T20 matches - one wicket at 63.00
Coach Adam Griffith pointed out right-arm 22-year-olds Aaron Summers and Riley Meredith as his state's fastest bowlers.
"They're both pretty quick when they're up and going," he added.
Griffith said both quicks bowl at more than 140km/h "when they're going well".
Mickey Edwards - 23 years old - >140km/h
Four List A matches - five wickets at 35.40
Two first-class matches - five wickets at 30.60
One T20 match - no wickets, 10.33 runs per over
A handful of names stand out to coach Phil Jaques when discussing his bulging pace ranks.
"There are a couple of young quicks - Chad Sammut, Ryan Hadley - who are decent pace," he said.
"There are also a couple of guys in club cricket that have bowled good pace who are in our second XI system as well."
Quite a few others as well.
AamchiMumbaikar
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They bowled well even against us. We never folded cheaply like these kiwi/ pak batters though!
AamchiMumbaikar
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We lost 1 test in that series , if not Perth then we would have played @ gabba so 1 loss would have just shifted from perth -> brisbane. No difference in series result.
tyron_woodley
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Shaw will come back
Mayank is a beast and he will be ready.
kohli is kohli
puji - the guy who rendered the great aussie attack useless.
rahane - quality player away from home.
pant - can play pace well.
australia have:
smith - he is smith. his resume speaks for himself
labuschagne - quality player. world class
warner - one of the best home track bullies of all time
head - good talent
bowling is around the same level but australia have Lyon. India don't have a spinner of Lyon' s quality to succeed in Australian pitches. ashwin and jaddu are great for sub continent pitches but on Australian soils Lyon is ahead.
That could be the difference maker. India have to negate Lyon. If they can do that then victory is possible.
Gary Lyon is key in this intriguing matchup.
Mayank is a beast and he will be ready.
kohli is kohli
puji - the guy who rendered the great aussie attack useless.
rahane - quality player away from home.
pant - can play pace well.
australia have:
smith - he is smith. his resume speaks for himself
labuschagne - quality player. world class
warner - one of the best home track bullies of all time
head - good talent
bowling is around the same level but australia have Lyon. India don't have a spinner of Lyon' s quality to succeed in Australian pitches. ashwin and jaddu are great for sub continent pitches but on Australian soils Lyon is ahead.
That could be the difference maker. India have to negate Lyon. If they can do that then victory is possible.
Gary Lyon is key in this intriguing matchup.
AamchiMumbaikar
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If we bounce out Smith next series just like how Wagner n co are doing & win the series then people will say he was out of form and this does not count 
If we bounce out Smith next series just like how Wagner n co are doing & win the series then people will say he was out of form and this does not count
No we (at least aussies) won't. I highly doubt this tactic will continue to work for two reasons.
1. Wagner is a one of a king bowler
2. Many of Smith's dismissals against the short ball have been when taking it on. In the 1st innings here he just left them alone which he will do with success when it counts. It is basically impossible to score quickly against the tactics though
tyron_woodley
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bumrah is far more lethal with the bouncers than Wagner or anybody for the matter. shami too can seriously injure players. This isn't the same shami that faced smith in 2014.
Not that smith can counter bouncers but it will be interesting to see this matchup because india and australia are neck and neck right now.
Mean&Green
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If we bounce out Smith next series just like how Wagner n co are doing & win the series then people will say he was out of form and this does not count
No one will but Indian bowlers can’t bounce smith out infact no bowler can other than Neil Wagner. Reason being he’s the best short ball bowler in the world 2 for the over are allowed but his accuracy is so amazing he can deliver 6 short balls in an over at the perfect height to bounce out the batsman. Despite not having much pace that is a brilliant skill to have archer tried the same but he’s just not skilfull enough. The best short ball bowler in the Indian side is Mohammad shami but Shamis short ball is nowhere as good as Wagner’s so I don’t see any Indian bowler bouncing him out.
Saw your post late [MENTION=150610]tyron_woodley[/MENTION]
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Mean&Green
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Damn even Pattinson gets only one game and he is one heck of a bowler too the series might have been very different infact now that I’m seeing all Pattinson bowl as well plus with smith and warner
I find Wes agar to be the most impressive amongst the young bowlers. Sad he won't get many chances due to the established bowlers
jnaveen1980
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ENtire Australian line up took blow after blow on the knuckles in that series. Real furious stuff.
Watch from 0:40
jnaveen1980
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Except Pattinson would not have bee bowling to a mentally shot NZ side.
jnaveen1980
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They are relentless. That is their biggest advantage.
Australian fast bowlers are overrated. They have been outbowled by safrica both home and away.
Outbowled by india home and away
Ineffective in Asia, they just keep bullying eng and nz. Though Wagner and southee are the leading wicket takers this series.
Once eng get rid of anderson, they too won't be very far off as well
India has the best bowling line up in the world.
Outbowled by india home and away
Ineffective in Asia, they just keep bullying eng and nz. Though Wagner and southee are the leading wicket takers this series.
Once eng get rid of anderson, they too won't be very far off as well
India has the best bowling line up in the world.
tyron_woodley
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people still don't realize how good this guy truly is. I am feeling you man, if bumrah is back to his best post injury, he will end some Australian players' careers for good.
I have never seen such a lethal bowler since bond retired. bumrah truly is special. He is already better than bond anyway but now he needs to show that form for the next 7 -10 odd years like steyn.
tyron_woodley
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they are the best in home conditions. However, I would also say they are top 2 in SENA conditons overall.
Pattinsons rise has strengthened aus.
He is their most skillful bowler.
Cummins lacks variety.
Starc and Hazelwood are inconsistent.
Probably hazle has to make way for pat to even after injury.
The rise of Marnus and Pattinson make aus a quality side.
But I still think india have the edge.
Aussie win will depend on starcs form and the middle order. The middle order tends to get skittled out quickly
He is their most skillful bowler.
Cummins lacks variety.
Starc and Hazelwood are inconsistent.
Probably hazle has to make way for pat to even after injury.
The rise of Marnus and Pattinson make aus a quality side.
But I still think india have the edge.
Aussie win will depend on starcs form and the middle order. The middle order tends to get skittled out quickly
Excuse me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of the Indian bowlers have the endurance that Wagner has. Completely agree that it will be a brilliant series
Alot of this is because India's, SA's batting line ups were better so Australian bowlers looked worse than their counterparts
tyron_woodley
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yea I think you are probably comparing Wagner to the Indians pre 2013. Things have changed. India have the fittest bowlers in the world by far. fitter than Australians too.
tyron_woodley
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True to an extent. It only takes a good partnership to wear out even a world class attack. Let's see which batsmen step up when it matters in the next series.
Yeah I'm not the most knowledgeable. We will see during this series. Smith has a year to prep however so by then I reckon he will be able to deal with it
Maliq_Mudasir
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Not sure about Bancroft and Pattinson, but Smith and Warner would definitely have made an impact.
Bhaijaan
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By the time India visit Australia, Smith would have learnt to play the short ball. You can bet on that he's a fast learner and he will not use the team bus until he's not learnt that.
Aussie batting was really weak a year ago, with aaron finch and marcus harris, khawaja, was an incredibly weak top order.
smith and marnus are now half of australia's batting.
having said that , i still think india will win next year. unless they persist with flat track bully rohit sharma and give umesh a go, who oddly can inyl bowl well in india and not abroad
smith and marnus are now half of australia's batting.
having said that , i still think india will win next year. unless they persist with flat track bully rohit sharma and give umesh a go, who oddly can inyl bowl well in india and not abroad
jnaveen1980
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There are two kind of bouncers. One is getting someone to mistime by bowling relentlessly. If you decide to keep leaving you can do. Only when you get all macho and try to pull and mistime you get out. Wagner's bouncers are this kind. Other kind is threatening your body. But what we saw in India/OZ series was threatening. Many players were bruised big time. It was hostile stuff. They set trap for each batsmen. For Travis head they constantly had this wide third man as he liked to throw anything slightly short and wide. For Marnus they had a short midwicket.
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Indian batsmen at the moment are the only force that can take on the might of the Australia bowling. And vice versa too.
tyron_woodley
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it was brutal and I loved it. India inflicted far more damage and that's part of the reason why they won. Softening the Aussies up with some sweet chin music.
The pitches were as bouncy as they always have been. Lol at people making excuses.
No reason why bumrah couldn't hurt a midget like Warner.
smith isn't much taller either. Not saying it will.happen but there is always a chance. You keep annoying the bowlers and they might hurt you eventually.
tyron_woodley
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btw people complaining about khawaja and harris? they had the best stats in shield cricket prior to getting picked. marnus was below them.
Manunited18
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India do have a ageing attack, bar bumrah rest will be 30 or over
Aussie fans were demanding for Harris to be in the team. He was the leading fc scorer
Khwaja was set to be australias main batsman.
There are some things you just can't explain
Height doesn't matter a huge amount when playing bouncers. Ponting was short, and Viv Richards was about the same height as Smith
Red Devil
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I think right now, there's no team in the world that can go to Australia and win a Test series. Not even India.
tyron_woodley
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no not easily. If we win the toss it's possible. if we lose the toss it's hard to beat australia in australia. it's 50 50. I would say Aussies are marginal favourites. If bumrah is back at his best then india have a good chance to draw vs Aussies even if they lose the tosses in all games.
When was the last time India won an away test batting 2nd?
tyron_woodley
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when did australia achieve that? that's why I said toss matters in australia.
in India however even if you win or lose the toss, india will still spank you. That's the difference.
Different pitch and different conditions. And Indians really bowled well in 2018 unlike today.
Ab Fan
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Australia are favourites at home this time.
We'll never know. Test series aren't just a test of your "perfect" team. They are a test of a nations cricket strength in every department- depth, coaching, strategy, leadership, versatility, mental strength, adaptability/learning. It's pathetic to claim otherwise. You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want.
ALL Test wins count. There is no "oh but, of this oh that". You win or you don't. India won, they were better. Bancroft can't crack the team now. Pattinson is no loss because he never plays- talented but will never put it together for long before he breaks down.
Warner is a big threat at home, Sharma & Bumrah's ability to tempt him around the wicket with those away swingers will be a real turning point for who wins. The ball won't swing for that long & he'll only miss a couple at most before he finds range. They NEED to get that right quick.
Smith has just recently shown a hint of mortality vs the short ball. It's a but like Bradman averaging 56 instead of 100+ during the Bodyline series but it is something... a chink in the armour.
I'll see how India do in the rest of this match & NZ tour before I assess chances in Oz.
ALL Test wins count. There is no "oh but, of this oh that". You win or you don't. India won, they were better. Bancroft can't crack the team now. Pattinson is no loss because he never plays- talented but will never put it together for long before he breaks down.
Warner is a big threat at home, Sharma & Bumrah's ability to tempt him around the wicket with those away swingers will be a real turning point for who wins. The ball won't swing for that long & he'll only miss a couple at most before he finds range. They NEED to get that right quick.
Smith has just recently shown a hint of mortality vs the short ball. It's a but like Bradman averaging 56 instead of 100+ during the Bodyline series but it is something... a chink in the armour.
I'll see how India do in the rest of this match & NZ tour before I assess chances in Oz.
Romali_rotti
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Names like Pattinson, Bancroft and Warner doesnt matter. If Smith played India would lose the series because whenever India got a break, Smith will take Australia to safety and eventually to victory...
Mesozoic
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I just lol everytime I see Bancroft and Pattinson in that title. 
Mahee
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I Never heard about Bancroft Pattinson...but if Smith was there, I don't think we would have won that test series
Slog
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I just lol everytime I see Bancroft and Pattinson in that title.
True. Smith and Warner would have been enough
Mesozoic
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Well I won't fault you for thinking so based on all the 350/1 and 580/3 type of scorecards you got used to when your team went down under. But it doesn't work like that for all the teams.
tyron_woodley
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India if they win the toss. It's over. if australia wins the toss it's over.
toss matters between india and australia in australia.
win toss bat first. game over. smith, warner would make no difference if Aussies lose the toss. vice versa if india lose the toss.
Batting last on bouncy Australian and south african pitches will be hard as the pitch deteriorates and creates uneven bounce. spin in second innings will be a huge factor. Lyon is a master killer in second innings. Last time kuldeep ran through australia as well in the second innings.
if india can negate the toss factor vs australia and win or draw the series again then they will go down as the one of the GOAT team of all time.
India need to prove their ability to negate toss vs n.z and australia.
toss matters between india and australia in australia.
win toss bat first. game over. smith, warner would make no difference if Aussies lose the toss. vice versa if india lose the toss.
Batting last on bouncy Australian and south african pitches will be hard as the pitch deteriorates and creates uneven bounce. spin in second innings will be a huge factor. Lyon is a master killer in second innings. Last time kuldeep ran through australia as well in the second innings.
if india can negate the toss factor vs australia and win or draw the series again then they will go down as the one of the GOAT team of all time.
India need to prove their ability to negate toss vs n.z and australia.
Slog
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Well I won't fault you for thinking so based on all the 350/1 and 580/3 type of scorecards you got used to when your team went down under. But it doesn't work like that for all the teams.
I think try to get past challenge of Williamson and Taylor first before thinking. Beating smith and Warner in Australia
saeed5646
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Warner &smith proving to be difference in odi series .I expect test series to be same
saeed5646
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Without warner&smith aus can beat mid table test team but will be beaten by the likes of Sa,india,England
Thunderbolt14
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Would India have been able to beat Australia if they played without Ponting, Hayden, Langer, and McGrath?
Bhaijaan
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Australians are back to their dominating ways after reinforcements.
Indians have lot to answer.
Indians, where are you? Answer you bhaijaan.
Indians have lot to answer.
Indians, where are you? Answer you bhaijaan.
gazza619
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To be fair to the Indian team, travelling down under and adjusting to conditions quickly for a sub continent team is most challenging and always will be.
I would hold my judgement until the test series starts as India would have been in Australia for a decent period of time by then
jeeteshssaxena
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They will beat both Sa and eng at home. No doubt about it.
Khawaja, marsh bros were scoring centuries for fun against them.
Indian bowling is superior
saeed5646
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Do you have looked Sa test record in aus? .They have surprised aus more than one time be it is odi series or test
tyron_woodley
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South Africa would beat them anywhere.
Bhaijaan
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This team gets 8/10 from me as far as jazba and junoon is concerned but what about Himmat? 4/10
Thunderbolt14
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Jadejagoat
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India would have won or drew.
Buffet
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Aus is likely to win the 4th test and take the series 2-1, but questions can be flipped right now.
Would Aus have been able to compete with India if India was full strength for the entire series?
My question is just tongue in cheek comment here because I think Aus has enough quality to compete just like Indian had enough quality to compete in the last series.
Series result may be flipped, quality of cricketers is visible on both sides.
Would Aus have been able to compete with India if India was full strength for the entire series?
My question is just tongue in cheek comment here because I think Aus has enough quality to compete just like Indian had enough quality to compete in the last series.
Series result may be flipped, quality of cricketers is visible on both sides.
Jadejagoat
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2018 fluke is erased. BHag viru can cry all he wants. 2018 India would beat full strength Aussies in Australia.
Full strength India would beat Aussies 2 or 3 0 in India as well.
Buffet
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You can not say that.
We harder to say which team will win, but it's far easier to say that both sides have enough quality to play good cricket.
Buffet
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Well said here.
Jadejagoat
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- Runs
- 54
I can say that because we always up the intensity vs Aussies. You will notice our Intensity is no where near the same vs England or n.z.
India gives it 100% vs Aussies. Plus India don't even play practice games anymore vs England and kiwis.
India at full strength with Ishant Bhuvi Shami Kohli and current opening pair along will beat Australians in Australia 2-1.
They will thrash them in India.
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