Would you do an Imran Khan?

[KingKhanWC]

If you were married with children to a rich lady, living a great life in London. You are repsected world wide as an elite ex sportsman and charity worker. You are idolised in Pakistan by each and all.

Would you risk losing it all to go into politics in Pakistan?

If I was in his shoes, NO. Reason: Pakistan has great potential but imo has deep rooted tribalism culture and historic epedmic corruption. You will end up being hated many, not able to see your family and risking your life for this cause. It's just not worth it. Could never undertand why IK chose this route after retriring.

Would you?

 

[Syed1]

If I was in Imran Khan's shoes. I would have done the same up until the 2013 elections, and then given up on politics and this country.


How can you hope to reform a country that keeps electing corrupt and deceitful individuals like Sharifs and Bhuttos for three three turns.


You gave them an option and they rejected you by voting wholeheartedly for Nawaz Sharif even though it was clear that that person only works for his pocket and nothing else, so you give up and say "Iss mulk ka Allah hi hafiz hai"



The Sharifs and Bhuttos can rule for the next five decades and Pakistan will remain a poor, undeveloped, lawless failed state.

 

[s28]

Understand the basis for argument but it's wrong-headed. Our role in life is to strive and struggle 'enjoin good, forbid evil' (and to be the best people raised for mankind) but success/failure is in the hands of Allah

 

[Jin Chacha]

To be fair the argument applies to all the other leaders too. If you had as much money (that the money came from corruption is a separate issue) as Nawaz Sharif and could have lived like a king in exile in Saudi Arabia, why would you come back? Especially since you had been humiliated by the army the last time you were here.

If you had as much money as the Bhutto family (again where that the money came from is a separate issue) and have palaces in England and France, why would you come back? Especially since your father was hanged by the military, both your brothers died violent unnatural deaths and your life had severe threats from terrorists. Pretty much the same can be said for Zardari who had enough money to live comfortably in some European country but decided to stay in power and become one of the most hated figures in the country. One can argue that these people came back for the multiplication of their wealth but the cost in terms of personal danger and stress was a little too great for this to hold.

Even though I dont doubt the intentions of IK who had a squeaky clean reputation with regard to financial corruption (and probably also a bit of a messiah complex) but it would be naive to think the desire for power is not a part of the reason these leader's came back. Once you become addicted to power you are willing to sacrifice anything for it.

 

[Madplayer]

To be fair the argument applies to all the other leaders too. If you had as much money (that the money came from corruption is a separate issue) as Nawaz Sharif and could have lived like a king in exile in Saudi Arabia, why would you come back? Especially since you had been humiliated by the army the last time you were here.

If you had as much money as the Bhutto family (again where that the money came from is a separate issue) and have palaces in England and France, why would you come back? Especially since your father was hanged by the military, both your brothers died violent unnatural deaths and your life had severe threats from terrorists. Pretty much the same can be said for Zardari who had enough money to live comfortably in some European country but decided to stay in power and become one of the most hated figures in the country. One can argue that these people came back for the multiplication of their wealth but the cost in terms of personal danger and stress was a little too great for this to hold.

Even though I dont doubt the intentions of IK who had a squeaky clean reputation with regard to financial corruption (and probably also a bit of a messiah complex) but it would be naive to think the desire for power is not a part of the reason these leader's came back. Once you become addicted to power you are willing to sacrifice anything for it.

Nawaz and bhuttos had something to prove. How would the next generations have remembered them if they hadn't made a come back?

Imran on the other hand had nothing to prove to anyone.

 

[Waseem]

To be fair the argument applies to all the other leaders too. If you had as much money (that the money came from corruption is a separate issue) as Nawaz Sharif and could have lived like a king in exile in Saudi Arabia, why would you come back? Especially since you had been humiliated by the army the last time you were here.

If you had as much money as the Bhutto family (again where that the money came from is a separate issue) and have palaces in England and France, why would you come back? Especially since your father was hanged by the military, both your brothers died violent unnatural deaths and your life had severe threats from terrorists. Pretty much the same can be said for Zardari who had enough money to live comfortably in some European country but decided to stay in power and become one of the most hated figures in the country. One can argue that these people came back for the multiplication of their wealth but the cost in terms of personal danger and stress was a little too great for this to hold.

Even though I dont doubt the intentions of IK who had a squeaky clean reputation with regard to financial corruption (and probably also a bit of a messiah complex) but it would be naive to think the desire for power is not a part of the reason these leader's came back. Once you become addicted to power you are willing to sacrifice anything for it.

Not sure how it applies to Nawaz Sharif? He came to power, stole the money was kicked out, came back stole more money and was kicked out. He took a break due to Musharaff and finally came back doing what he does best and in the process making sure his next generation is all set to retain the power.

Imran Khan on the other hand could have saved his marriage, spent life with kids, lived a luxurious life with repsect, money, power but he decided to give it back to his country instead and he is paying heavy price for that. Even those who probably wouldn't even do 0.1% of what Imran has done for the country take cheap shots at him (using his personal life) and make fun of him.

I admit, i would have never sacrificed this much for the country.

 

[gkb101277867]

No I wouldn't.

Pakistan does not deserve Imran Khan and the sacrifice he has made to help his country. The majority of overseas Pakistanis can see the importance of Imran Khan for Pakistan but sadly the majority of those actually living there have no clue.

 

[Mian]

I love Pakistan but i don't have any soft corner for most of these blind pakistanis (not all). No way i am not going to waste my life for this soi hui qaum they deserve to be ruled by sharifs and bhuttos. I am not crazy like imran i will never give up anything yes not even 1 year of my life for this selfish nation because in return nothing will happen and only my life will become hell.

 

[Saeed]

Absolutely, life is an adventure. Someone from Africa or wherever will not come to fix this country. All revolutionary leaders have to lose something for the greater good. But I would focus on education. Nothing will change as long as people don't start questioning and start thinking for themselves.

 

[Zahid87]

If I was in Imran Khan's shoes. I would have done the same up until the 2013 elections, and then given up on politics and this country.


How can you hope to reform a country that keeps electing corrupt and deceitful individuals like Sharifs and Bhuttos for three three turns.


You gave them an option and they rejected you by voting wholeheartedly for Nawaz Sharif even though it was clear that that person only works for his pocket and nothing else, so you give up and say "Iss mulk ka Allah hi hafiz hai"



The Sharifs and Bhuttos can rule for the next five decades and Pakistan will remain a poor, undeveloped, lawless failed state.

You are assuming that Pakistan is a fair society, where voters are equipped with perfect information, and everyone is free and able to vote.

Reality is different. Votes are bought. Certain sections of society are bribed with free food on voting day for example. Others are forced to vote a certain way by their employer, who is aligning to vote wherever his bread is buttered, not caring about the bigger picture.

Religion comes into it, ethnicity, sect, caste. Everything.

Until people are educated to a certain level, and the country develops a middle class who feel that they have a stake in the country, then people like IK who try and pitch themselves only on the point of development will never win. You need a card which appeals to the masses.

 

[Gayle_Force]

I probably wouldn't. However, it is really difficult for me to put myself in a position where I am recognized as the most popular national hero, which Imran Khan was in the 90s. Like I can imagine, If Imran Khan didn't join politics, at some point during the last 25 years his heroics would have become a distant memory amongst the public and you would just see him as a sports commentator or at most in a senior role in PCB, much like Javed Miandad.

I am not saying Imran did it for the fame but I think when you receive that kind of love and recognition from your country, It encourages you to do more and give back to your country for as long as possible.

 

[shaz619]

If you were married with children to a rich lady, living a great life in London. You are repsected world wide as an elite ex sportsman and charity worker. You are idolised in Pakistan by each and all.

Would you risk losing it all to go into politics in Pakistan?

If I was in his shoes, NO. Reason: Pakistan has great potential but imo has deep rooted tribalism culture and historic epedmic corruption. You will end up being hated many, not able to see your family and risking your life for this cause. It's just not worth it. Could never undertand why IK chose this route after retriring.

Would you?

I would never do it to be honest, but understand his reasoning; it's like having a passion for something and you don't quit even when it doesn't make sense, at times it can pay off and all the sacrifices would have been worth it. Many a time we live our lives saying "what if" rather then "oh well". Personally for me the most important thing is family above everything else, so decisions would be made from their perspective; if what I do is detrimental to their financial security and happiness then I would sacrifice my own dreams without a second thought.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think for Imran Khan it makes perfect sense, for me not at all. Imran Khan is culturally very much a Pakistani, he was brought up there and will still think like one so it's very easy for him to go back there and fit right in. What would he be here? Just another former celebrity passing his time in London.

That said, even if I was in his position and had the same upbringing, I can think of so many better ways to spend my time. I still don't understand why he gave up a good life and his family to pursue politics in Pakistan.But that's what separates the born leaders from the rest.

 

[Mian]

This thread remind of that dialogue from the movie Kaptaan. "Yeh aik aasan zindagi he yeh baat imran khan keh raha he mujse......"

 

[Mamoon]

To be fair the argument applies to all the other leaders too. If you had as much money (that the money came from corruption is a separate issue) as Nawaz Sharif and could have lived like a king in exile in Saudi Arabia, why would you come back? Especially since you had been humiliated by the army the last time you were here.

If you had as much money as the Bhutto family (again where that the money came from is a separate issue) and have palaces in England and France, why would you come back? Especially since your father was hanged by the military, both your brothers died violent unnatural deaths and your life had severe threats from terrorists. Pretty much the same can be said for Zardari who had enough money to live comfortably in some European country but decided to stay in power and become one of the most hated figures in the country. One can argue that these people came back for the multiplication of their wealth but the cost in terms of personal danger and stress was a little too great for this to hold.

Even though I dont doubt the intentions of IK who had a squeaky clean reputation with regard to financial corruption (and probably also a bit of a messiah complex) but it would be naive to think the desire for power is not a part of the reason these leader's came back. Once you become addicted to power you are willing to sacrifice anything for it.

Came here to say this. Thank you for saving me a post.

 

[Mamoon]

The majority of overseas Pakistanis can see the importance of Imran Khan for Pakistan but sadly the majority of those actually living there have no clue.

That is because the majority of the overseas Pakistanis don't really have a clue about how things are in the country. They don't live their and don't encounter the difficulties and challenges people face there. In addition, they also fail to grasp that the problems run far deeper than the person who is sitting at the top or the government who holds the federal power.

That is why in the last elections, we saw that the KPK voted PTI, Punjab voted for PML-N and Sindh voted for PPP. What does this tells us? nothing but the fact that the majority of the people voted for whoever served their needs best. KPK voted for PTI partially because they bought into Imran's Messiah complex but mostly because of the lack of alternatives. My advice to Pakistanis settled abroad would be to let the people living in Pakistan decide what they want, because at the end of the day, they are the ones who suffer or reap the rewards of their decision.

 

[gkb101277867]

That is because the majority of the overseas Pakistanis don't really have a clue about how things are in the country. They don't live their and don't encounter the difficulties and challenges people face there. In addition, they also fail to grasp that the problems run far deeper than the person who is sitting at the top or the government who holds the federal power.

That is why in the last elections, we saw that the KPK voted PTI, Punjab voted for PML-N and Sindh voted for PPP. What does this tells us? nothing but the fact that the majority of the people voted for whoever served their needs best. KPK voted for PTI partially because they bought into Imran's Messiah complex but mostly because of the lack of alternatives. My advice to Pakistanis settled abroad would be to let the people living in Pakistan decide what they want, because at the end of the day, they are the ones who suffer or reap the rewards of their decision.

Don't need to be living in the country to know that electing corrupt and thieving individuals is not a good thing for a country. All that money could help the poor, build hospitals, improve services and improve education. It could help the poor who don't even have enough to eat twice daily. Instead that money is looted from the country.

And don't disregard the opinions of the overseas Pakistanis. Without the regular money that comes into the country from the overseas pakistanis Pakistan would be in a much darker place than it is now

 

[contraman]

Lust for power is the greatest lust in this whole wide world, atleast you can say that the Zardaris, Sharifs and Imran are Pakistani so they came back but then how do you comprehend "Antonia Edvige Albina Maino" AKA Sonia Gandhi not staying in Italy along with her Billions and two children even after the repeated killings of the Gandhi family members.

Sonia looks more greedy for power than even her son Rahul, eventhough the whole country mocks him for his incompetence you cannot deny his sad statements when he proclaimed: " Baap Ko Maara, Daadi ko bhi maara". This is why you see he was not interested in politics till his 40s and even now he does not really want to win and secretly spends good amount of time partying abroad.

Do you really think they can spend their 20 Billion USD plus even in seven generations?? Fourth richest of all time in an old list of BusinessInsider, Zardaris and Sharifs are Garib in comparison: http://www.businessinsider.com/richest-politicians-in-the-world-2012-2?IR=T#4-sonia-gandhi-20

 

[Syed1]

That is because the majority of the overseas Pakistanis don't really have a clue about how things are in the country. They don't live their and don't encounter the difficulties and challenges people face there. In addition, they also fail to grasp that the problems run far deeper than the person who is sitting at the top or the government who holds the federal power.

That is why in the last elections, we saw that the KPK voted PTI, Punjab voted for PML-N and Sindh voted for PPP. What does this tells us? nothing but the fact that the majority of the people voted for whoever served their needs best. KPK voted for PTI partially because they bought into Imran's Messiah complex but mostly because of the lack of alternatives. My advice to Pakistanis settled abroad would be to let the people living in Pakistan decide what they want, because at the end of the day, they are the ones who suffer or reap the rewards of their decision.

The awkward moment when you yourself are an overseas Pakistani and lecturing others that they don't know whats best for the people of Pakistan.


I don't have to be in Pakistan to know that Nawaz Sharif is corrupt to the core and I would have to die a thousand deaths before supporting a person who steals from poor nation.


Even if I take your childish argument of overseas Pakistanis, were the people chanting "Go Nawaz Go" at the PSL final overseas Pakistanis? Or was the final held in KPK that the people didn't have any alternates? Or the 7 million people who voted for PTI overseas Pakistanis? So people of KPK didn't have any alternate but why did PTI get the second most votes in Punjab?

 

[Mamoon]

The awkward moment when you yourself are an overseas Pakistani and lecturing others that they don't know whats best for the people of Pakistan.

Oh dear, here we go again. You are either too thick to understand such a simple concept or perhaps you just like troll. Anyhow, I don't have time for either, so I will explain one final time. Read it slowly and carefully, if it still doesn't make sense, then please read it again and again and again till it does.

I am not an overseas Pakistani; I'm abroad only for my degree, and I will return as soon as I am done. Going for education abroad does not make you an overseas Pakistani. What next? going on a holiday makes you an overseas Pakistani as well?

I was born in Pakistan, did all my schooling + MBBS in Pakistan, worked their for a while as well. My immediate family is in Pakistan as well and I have intention of settling anywhere else. Not because I am a true patriot or because Pakistan is the best country in the world, but because as far as I am concerned, settling abroad will be quite complicated and impractical. In addition, the positives outweigh the negatives for me, even though I will earn about 10x more in the U.S. or Europe.

As far as giving the likes of you a 'lecture', well I am in a far better position to judge. Unlike you, I am not an expat Pakistani and I have come through the Pakistani system. I was also there to vote during the 2013 elections. Where were you? Yes I am sure you were rallying for PTI somewhere in Canada.

I don't have to be in Pakistan to know that Nawaz Sharif is corrupt to the core and I would have to die a thousand deaths before supporting a person who steals from poor nation.


Even if I take your childish argument of overseas Pakistanis, were the people chanting "Go Nawaz Go" at the PSL final overseas Pakistanis? Or was the final held in KPK that the people didn't have any alternates? Or the 7 million people who voted for PTI overseas Pakistanis? So people of KPK didn't have any alternate but why did PTI get the second most votes in Punjab?

You have missed the point completely and not for the first or the last time. I was talking about the majority and why they voted for PML-N. The fact is that in spite of the systematic rigging in which even PTI saints were caught, PML-N won the elections by a massive margin, which means that the people of Pakistan chose to elect him. Corrupt or whatever, the fact is that he is the elected leader; he is not a dictator who usurped the establishment that preceded him.

The fact is that majority of the people only consider their personal benefit. You have this simple-minded logic that 'all Nooras are corrupt and have no moral values and bla bla', but that is simple not true. If you go to Punjab, you will find many, many decent families who are not involved in any shady activities and who are not corrupt, but they still voted for PML-N? Why? Simply because Shahbaz Sharif has done a good job from their point of view and they don't care about anything else. These people just want to live their lives and they are not concerned with anything else.

On the contrary, we in KPK had to consider an alternative. ANP came up with a lot of promise and had a refreshing ideology, but they failed to live up to the billing. Although not entirely in their hands, they failed to bring peace to the province and getting into bed with PPP only made things worse. PTI was the only option that was not a tried and tested failure, and Imran played the 'I am a Pashtun' card quite successfully as well. In addition, a lot of people (including yours truly) bought into his Messiah complex. The finished second in Punjab because PPP has no significance outside Sindh, and Zardari didn't cover himself in glory during his reign either. The only alternative to PML-N in Punjab was PTI. Overall, PTI finished third because of the utter dominance of PPP over Sindh.

In next year's elections, barring a miracle, PTI will once again fail to win the majority but they should remain in power in KPK. Regardless of how many Junoonis you see chanting 'Go Nawaz Go' and how big PTI rallies are all over the country, go to Punjab and talk to the common man and the majority will not have anything good to say about Imran and his antics. It is the common man whose vote counts, not the lafangay who dance in PTI rallies with red & green paint on their faces, taking selfies and hoping to hit on some girls. That is the true picture of Pakistan politics whether you agree with it or not. Don't let the support on PakPassion and in cricket matches fool you, because these people are massive cricket fans and see Imran as their hero. However, politics is not a cricket match and the majority people in the country do not pin their hopes on Imran.

 

[Mamoon]

Don't need to be living in the country to know that electing corrupt and thieving individuals is not a good thing for a country. All that money could help the poor, build hospitals, improve services and improve education. It could help the poor who don't even have enough to eat twice daily. Instead that money is looted from the country.

And don't disregard the opinions of the overseas Pakistanis. Without the regular money that comes into the country from the overseas pakistanis Pakistan would be in a much darker place than it is now

I'm not disregarding the opinion of the overseas Pakistanis. In fact, it is the other way around judging by the tone of your post, because you seem to think that as an expat, you are better equipped to decide what is best for the people of Pakistan and what isn't. Yes thank you for the remittance that you people send, what will we do without it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That is because the majority of the overseas Pakistanis don't really have a clue about how things are in the country. They don't live their and don't encounter the difficulties and challenges people face there. In addition, they also fail to grasp that the problems run far deeper than the person who is sitting at the top or the government who holds the federal power.

That is why in the last elections, we saw that the KPK voted PTI, Punjab voted for PML-N and Sindh voted for PPP. What does this tells us? nothing but the fact that the majority of the people voted for whoever served their needs best. KPK voted for PTI partially because they bought into Imran's Messiah complex but mostly because of the lack of alternatives. My advice to Pakistanis settled abroad would be to let the people living in Pakistan decide what they want, because at the end of the day, they are the ones who suffer or reap the rewards of their decision.

I might not like the political parties in Pakistan, and given the chance would definitely vote for PTI, but I agree with you 100% on that part. Right or wrong, only Pakistanis who live there should decide who leads their country.

You make your bed, you lie in it.

 

[Syed1]

Oh dear, here we go again. You are either too thick to understand such a simple concept or perhaps you just like troll. Anyhow, I don't have time for either, so I will explain one final time. Read it slowly and carefully, if it still doesn't make sense, then please read it again and again and again till it does.

I am not an overseas Pakistani; I'm abroad only for my degree, and I will return as soon as I am done. Going for education abroad does not make you an overseas Pakistani. What next? going on a holiday makes you an overseas Pakistani as well?

I was born in Pakistan, did all my schooling + MBBS in Pakistan, worked their for a while as well. My immediate family is in Pakistan as well and I have intention of settling anywhere else. Not because I am a true patriot or because Pakistan is the best country in the world, but because as far as I am concerned, settling abroad will be quite complicated and impractical. In addition, the positives outweigh the negatives for me, even though I will earn about 10x more in the U.S. or Europe.

As far as giving the likes of you a 'lecture', well I am in a far better position to judge. Unlike you, I am not an expat Pakistani and I have come through the Pakistani system. I was also there to vote during the 2013 elections. Where were you? Yes I am sure you were rallying for PTI somewhere in Canada.



You have missed the point completely and not for the first or the last time. I was talking about the majority and why they voted for PML-N. The fact is that in spite of the systematic rigging in which even PTI saints were caught, PML-N won the elections by a massive margin, which means that the people of Pakistan chose to elect him. Corrupt or whatever, the fact is that he is the elected leader; he is not a dictator who usurped the establishment that preceded him.

The fact is that majority of the people only consider their personal benefit. You have this simple-minded logic that 'all Nooras are corrupt and have no moral values and bla bla', but that is simple not true. If you go to Punjab, you will find many, many decent families who are not involved in any shady activities and who are not corrupt, but they still voted for PML-N? Why? Simply because Shahbaz Sharif has done a good job from their point of view and they don't care about anything else. These people just want to live their lives and they are not concerned with anything else.

On the contrary, we in KPK had to consider an alternative. ANP came up with a lot of promise and had a refreshing ideology, but they failed to live up to the billing. Although not entirely in their hands, they failed to bring peace to the province and getting into bed with PPP only made things worse. PTI was the only option that was not a tried and tested failure, and Imran played the 'I am a Pashtun' card quite successfully as well. In addition, a lot of people (including yours truly) bought into his Messiah complex. The finished second in Punjab because PPP has no significance outside Sindh, and Zardari didn't cover himself in glory during his reign either. The only alternative to PML-N in Punjab was PTI. Overall, PTI finished third because of the utter dominance of PPP over Sindh.

In next year's elections, barring a miracle, PTI will once again fail to win the majority but they should remain in power in KPK. Regardless of how many Junoonis you see chanting 'Go Nawaz Go' and how big PTI rallies are all over the country, go to Punjab and talk to the common man and the majority will not have anything good to say about Imran and his antics. It is the common man whose vote counts, not the lafangay who dance in PTI rallies with red & green paint on their faces, taking selfies and hoping to hit on some girls. That is the true picture of Pakistan politics whether you agree with it or not. Don't let the support on PakPassion and in cricket matches fool you, because these people are massive cricket fans and see Imran as their hero. However, politics is not a cricket match and the majority people in the country do not pin their hopes on Imran.

I don't have the patience to go through your meaningless rants in which you pin all of Pakistan's pain onto PTI even though the party wasn't even a political force before this decade.

However, as of present you are overseas Pakistani until the completion of your degree. Even during the census that is supposed to be held soon they said those Pakistanis who haven't lived in Pakistan for ONE year will not be counted. I'm sure your degree is longer than one year. Once you go back to Pakistan then you can disassociate yourself with overseas Pakistanis. Till that time you are one no matter how much to act otherwise. So it is better if you stop lecturing others about what opinions they should have or not have.



In the context of this thread, IK becomes an even bigger hero if he is giving up a potential peaceful and luxurious lifestyle to strive for the people of Pakistan even though the common man is still rejecting him because chotay Sharif built a couple of flyovers.

 

[Saeed]

I might not like the political parties in Pakistan, and given the chance would definitely vote for PTI, but I agree with you 100% on that part. Right or wrong, only Pakistanis who live there should decide who leads their country.

You make your bed, you lie in it.

They always do. Its not like Syed bhai went to KPK and elected PTI on his own. Though its bit ridiculous to come on a foreign forum and demanding members to keep their opinions to themselves.

 

[Jin Chacha]

Nawaz and bhuttos had something to prove. How would the next generations have remembered them if they hadn't made a come back?

Imran on the other hand had nothing to prove to anyone.

I really doubt the Sharif's, Bhutto's and Zardari care enough about how the future generations would remember them to return to Pakistan because of it. If only they cared so much about peoples opinion. And I am not comparing Imran with these people. Just saying that the desire for power is too strong a factor to ignore.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] why are you such a hater? Sharif is clearly corrupt and has had too many chances on the ride! it is Imran Khan's turn now why don't you support that?

But one of the few positives Nawaz Sharif ever done was approve a grant of 30 million Rs for Muhammad Waseem so I respect him for that.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That is because the majority of the overseas Pakistanis don't really have a clue about how things are in the country. They don't live their and don't encounter the difficulties and challenges people face there. In addition, they also fail to grasp that the problems run far deeper than the person who is sitting at the top or the government who holds the federal power.

That is why in the last elections, we saw that the KPK voted PTI, Punjab voted for PML-N and Sindh voted for PPP. What does this tells us? nothing but the fact that the majority of the people voted for whoever served their needs best. KPK voted for PTI partially because they bought into Imran's Messiah complex but mostly because of the lack of alternatives. My advice to Pakistanis settled abroad would be to let the people living in Pakistan decide what they want, because at the end of the day, they are the ones who suffer or reap the rewards of their decision.

Do you know how much overseas Pakistani's contribute to the economy of Pakistan? Almost all have assetts in Pakistan, land , propertry etc?

Are you suggesting they should not send money back and sell their assetts too? IF not then surely they have a right to dicuss and change how Pakistan is run.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Lust for power is the greatest lust in this whole wide world, atleast you can say that the Zardaris, Sharifs and Imran are Pakistani so they came back but then how do you comprehend "Antonia Edvige Albina Maino" AKA Sonia Gandhi not staying in Italy along with her Billions and two children even after the repeated killings of the Gandhi family members.

Sonia looks more greedy for power than even her son Rahul, eventhough the whole country mocks him for his incompetence you cannot deny his sad statements when he proclaimed: " Baap Ko Maara, Daadi ko bhi maara". This is why you see he was not interested in politics till his 40s and even now he does not really want to win and secretly spends good amount of time partying abroad.

Do you really think they can spend their 20 Billion USD plus even in seven generations?? Fourth richest of all time in an old list of BusinessInsider, Zardaris and Sharifs are Garib in comparison: http://www.businessinsider.com/richest-politicians-in-the-world- 2012-2?IR=T#4-sonia-gandhi-20

I dont think this argument holds with IK. Lust for power is usually linked with lust for money. This is a man who has been seen eating food on the floor, sleeping on the floor. Arguably he could have more power doing other jobs around the world.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't have the patience to go through your meaningless rants in which you pin all of Pakistan's pain onto PTI even though the party wasn't even a political force before this decade.

Yeah I don't blame, all of the information probably flew over your head. Hopefully you still remember the official age of retirement in Pakistan.

However, as of present you are overseas Pakistani until the completion of your degree. Even during the census that is supposed to be held soon they said those Pakistanis who haven't lived in Pakistan for ONE year will not be counted. I'm sure your degree is longer than one year. Once you go back to Pakistan then you can disassociate yourself with overseas Pakistanis. Till that time you are one no matter how much to act otherwise. So it is better if you stop lecturing others about what opinions they should have or not have.

Firstly, it is 6 months not year. The census will begin on March 15, and any Pakistani who has not been in the country for the last 6 months will not be included in the census. I was in Pakistan for a few weeks in December/January, so I will be included in the census much to your disappointment.

Secondly and more importantly, the technicalities don't matter - the fact is that someone who has lived all his life in Pakistan, recieved education and worked there doesn't became an overseas Pakistani/expat because of going abroad for education, with the intention of returning once his degree is complete. Now you can clutch at straws and try to paint me as an 'overseas' Pakistani, but the truth is that I am far more aware and well-versed with life in Pakistan compared to someone who has been in Canada since God-knows-when and probably comes to Pakistan once in two/three years. I can spend the next 20 years outside Pakistan but I would be better aware of how things are and would understand the psyche of the people better because I grew up there.

Thirdly, it's not as if overseas Pakistani's don't have good political knowledge and how things work in Pakistan. Most of them do, and we have them on this forum as well. Okay you have been exposed numerous times because you are not aware of some of the elementary aspects and generally hide behind the posts of other people, while resorting to one-liners such as Noora this and Noora that yourself, but what is not acceptable is when these overseas Pakistanis try to dictate what we should do, given the fact that we are the ones who are directly impacted (good or bad) by the results of the elections. Giving your opinion is fine, but claiming that we understand what is best for Pakistan while living in the West but the Pakistani living in Pakistan don't know what's best for them.

In the context of this thread, IK becomes an even bigger hero if he is giving up a potential peaceful and luxurious lifestyle to strive for the people of Pakistan even though the common man is still rejecting him because chotay Sharif built a couple of flyovers.

Imran has Messiah complex and he is power hungry. He also thinks he is above the law. Yes he is fresh and I voted for him but the majority did not, and we all need to respect the decision of the majority because at the end of the day, Pakistan is a republic. However, he has not covered himself in glory over the last few years and I am not the only one who has given up on him. Still, if next year, the majority decides that he is our Saviour, who am I to object?

 

[Mamoon]

Do you know how much overseas Pakistani's contribute to the economy of Pakistan? Almost all have assetts in Pakistan, land , propertry etc?

Are you suggesting they should not send money back and sell their assetts too? IF not then surely they have a right to dicuss and change how Pakistan is run.

Firstly, the contribution of the expats on the economy is overstated. Secondly, regardless of who wins the election, your property and land is unlikely to change hands. What is yours will belong to you, unless the government decides to build a motorway on it or some other construction, but you will be financially compensated for it.

Thirdly, expats will be ignored in the census. However, no one is questioning their right to discuss.

Anyone has the right to discuss anything, but the attitude that some of the expats have that they know what is best for the country but the people living in the country are too dumb to figure out for themselves doesn't really work. The problem is that a lot of these expats cannot understand why people like Nawaz and Zardari are preferred to the likes of Imran. They just don't understand the dynamics of Pakistani politics. My only objection is with this attitude, not with whether the expats have the right to discuss or not.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] why are you such a hater? Sharif is clearly corrupt and has had too many chances on the ride! it is Imran Khan's turn now why don't you support that?

But one of the few positives Nawaz Sharif ever done was approve a grant of 30 million Rs for Muhammad Waseem so I respect him for that.

I have already supported him by voting for him in 2013, so I have played my part. The country though chose to elect Nawaz, and I am only explaining the rationale behind their decision. The notion that those who voted for Nawaz are thieves and looters themselves couldn't be further from the truth. I was also explaining to our politically challenged friend why there is little hope for Imran next year as well.

 

[Waseem]

99% of his posts on politics are anti Imran Khan on EVERY issue (even if issue is corruption) but still he is not PMLN supporter and voted for PTI in 2013

 

[Mamoon]

99% of his posts on politics are anti Imran Khan on EVERY issue (even if issue is corruption) but still he is not PMLN supporter and voted for PTI in 2013

Sir if you don't want to believe that I voted for PTI in 2013, then it is your call. I cannot provide proof to you, unless I go to the Election Commission with my NIC and then send a picture to you, but I don't think it is worth the trouble considering the fact we will never cross paths in life.

However, I know what the truth is and I am comfortable with it. I don't have to prove anything to anyone.

The reason why most of my posts are anti-PTI is because I had certain expectations (which made me vote for them in the first place) which have not been met, and I am allowed to voice my disapproval. More importantly though, I have been disgusted by the behaviour and the attitude of Imran Khan over the last few years.

It all started with him joining hands with Sheikh Rasheed and then engaging in dharna politics, while ignoring the intra-party rigging in PTI because he could not upset his friends who financed his dharna, and are standing with him today because they know that if PTI comes into federal power, they will get important positions. Same people who did nothing for the country when they were under the wing of PML-Q and polishing shoes of Musharraf. I can go on and on and on, but I would only be repeating myself.

As far as PML-N is concerned, I have never voted for them and don't intend to vote for them in the future either. I know who they are and what they have done for the country. Not once have I denied that the allegations against them are false, but I have insisted that we need to accept the decision of the SC regardless of the outcome. Since I have never supported them, I don't feel the need to criticize them all time. However, the hypocrisy of PTI supporters and the double-standards of Imran prompts me to direct most of my criticism at them, and the fact that I am a staunch former supporter means that my disappointment is greater.

 

[shaz619]

I have already supported him by voting for him in 2013, so I have played my part. The country though chose to elect Nawaz, and I am only explaining the rationale behind their decision. The notion that those who voted for Nawaz are thieves and looters themselves couldn't be further from the truth. I was also explaining to our politically challenged friend why there is little hope for Imran next year as well.

Who do you personally want ultimately to lead Pakistan?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Firstly, the contribution of the expats on the economy is overstated. Secondly, regardless of who wins the election, your property and land is unlikely to change hands. What is yours will belong to you, unless the government decides to build a motorway on it or some other construction, but you will be financially compensated for it.

Thirdly, expats will be ignored in the census. However, no one is questioning their right to discuss.

Anyone has the right to discuss anything, but the attitude that some of the expats have that they know what is best for the country but the people living in the country are too dumb to figure out for themselves doesn't really work. The problem is that a lot of these expats cannot understand why people like Nawaz and Zardari are preferred to the likes of Imran. They just don't understand the dynamics of Pakistani politics. My only objection is with this attitude, not with whether the expats have the right to discuss or not.

You forget many are dual citizens and have the right to vote. You may live in Pakistan but are no more Pakistani. The argument those who live abroad cannot know better than those who live in Pakistan is not valid, knowledge doesn't need a location.

Back on the point of the thread. Why don't you do an Imran Khan and go into politics? Noora's are always looking for new recruits.

 

[PakLFC]

Probably would have decided to move abroad and live a life of luxury. Credit to IK for trying to help the country however he does it partly to remain in the public eye.

 

[Mamoon]

Who do you personally want ultimately to lead Pakistan?

Whoever the people of Pakistan decide on. It is a democratic country and the democracy must be preserved. Pakistan's biggest problem has not been Nawaz, Zardari or Bhutto; its biggest problem has been not allowing democratically elected governments to complete their terms. Democracy has always lost in Pakistan and the newfound democracy since 2008 needs to be preserved. Nawaz, Imran, Zardari, Bilawal etc. will not live forever, but this country will which is why our main emphasis should be on protecting democracy. All of this anarchy politics and pleas to the Army to intervene for the umpteenth time will not yield anything and it never has.

During this Panama Case, whatever the Supreme Courts decides should be accepted by everyone. We need to respect the power of this institution and not agree with only even the decision is in our favour. No one is above the law. The only long-term solution for Pakistan's problem is respect of democracy and respect for its institutions and constitution. Let democracy thrive and let the people choose whom they want to, and things will fix themselves over a few decades. However, keep repeating the same mistakes which you have been making since 1947 and 70 years down the line, same problems will persist. We are not learning our mistakes from the past; toppling governments is not the solution to our problems. It is nothing but short-sightedness.

 

[Mamoon]

You forget many are dual citizens and have the right to vote. You may live in Pakistan but are no more Pakistani. The argument those who live abroad cannot know better than those who live in Pakistan is not valid, knowledge doesn't need a location.

Back on the point of the thread. Why don't you do an Imran Khan and go into politics? Noora's are always looking for new recruits.

That is not my argument in the first place and I have stressed on it already. My only problem is with the attitude that the overseas Pakistanis know what is best for Pakistan, but the Pakistanis who are living in the country do not have a clue about what is best for them. This condescending attitude is ridiculous and couldn't be further from the truth.

I have already stated numerous times that they are plenty of overseas Pakistanis who have a very good knowledge of Pakistan politics and how things work in this country. However, generally speaking, people living in Pakistan and who are part of the system are better aware of the problems in this country compared to someone who only visits the country for a few weeks after a few years and is reliant on what the media feeds him/her or second hand accounts of family and friends. Nonetheless, I don't have any political ambitions and if I did, I would not join PML-N.

 

[IMMY69]

Whoever the people of Pakistan decide on. It is a democratic country and the democracy must be preserved. Pakistan's biggest problem has not been Nawaz, Zardari or Bhutto; its biggest problem has been not allowing democratically elected governments to complete their terms. Democracy has always lost in Pakistan and the newfound democracy since 2008 needs to be preserved. Nawaz, Imran, Zardari, Bilawal etc. will not live forever, but this country will which is why our main emphasis should be on protecting democracy. All of this anarchy politics and pleas to the Army to intervene for the umpteenth time will not yield anything and it never has.

During this Panama Case, whatever the Supreme Courts decides should be accepted by everyone. We need to respect the power of this institution and not agree with only even the decision is in our favour. No one is above the law. The only long-term solution for Pakistan's problem is respect of democracy and respect for its institutions and constitution. Let democracy thrive and let the people choose whom they want to, and things will fix themselves over a few decades. However, keep repeating the same mistakes which you have been making since 1947 and 70 years down the line, same problems will persist. We are not learning our mistakes from the past; toppling governments is not the solution to our problems. It is nothing but short-sightedness.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201611/when-democracy-fails

 

[Mamoon]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201611/when-democracy-fails

Thanks for the link, but democracy has not been allowed to succeed in Pakistan in the first place so there is no question of failing..yet. I can also forward you to scholarly peer-reviewed research papers not just a small article on why democracy is essential for the long-term prosperity and growth of a nation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That is not my argument in the first place and I have stressed on it already. My only problem is with the attitude that the overseas Pakistanis know what is best for Pakistan, but the Pakistanis who are living in the country do not have a clue about what is best for them. This condescending attitude is ridiculous and couldn't be further from the truth.

I have already stated numerous times that they are plenty of overseas Pakistanis who have a very good knowledge of Pakistan politics and how things work in this country. However, generally speaking, people living in Pakistan and who are part of the system are better aware of the problems in this country compared to someone who only visits the country for a few weeks after a few years and is reliant on what the media feeds him/her or second hand accounts of family and friends. Nonetheless, I don't have any political ambitions and if I did, I would not join PML-N.

Pakistan has a population of near 200 million. Most are not educated to any decent standard and others are plagued by tribalism. Yes there are some in Pakistan who are well educated in the politics of the country but the majority have no clue. I would suggest a higher percentage of overseas Pakistan's have a better understanding of Pakistan can move forward and it's not under a corrupt government.

 

[IMMY69]

Thanks for the link, but democracy has not been allowed to succeed in Pakistan in the first place so there is no question of failing..yet. I can also forward you to scholarly peer-reviewed research papers not just a small article on why democracy is essential for the long-term prosperity and growth of a nation.

You continuously hide behind this notion that Prolonged democracy is going to sort out all our problems without taking into account the severety of corruption which is endemic through every institution...

Until and unless corruption is weeded out, proper institutions are in place and we somehow eliminate poor villagers being bribed to vote in a certain way then we will continue in to go down this route.

I fail to see how anyone can defend the present government knowing how they have raped the country.

 

[corneredtiger85292]

I agree with the majority of posters on here..it would be a difficult decision but ultimately i would probably not do what IK did. That is the greatness of the man, he did what almost all other would not in his shoes.

I see some posts on here saying the same should apply to NS and AAZ. They were nothing before politics, they are famous and have made their money through politics, not in IK's case. The other 2 have sacrificed nothing to be in politics (in fact they have gained a lot from it) while in IK's case the situation is, if anything, the opposite.

 

[Syed1]

You continuously hide behind this notion that Prolonged democracy is going to sort out all our problems without taking into account the severety of corruption which is endemic through every institution...

Until and unless corruption is weeded out, proper institutions are in place and we somehow eliminate poor villagers being bribed to vote in a certain way then we will continue in to go down this route.

I fail to see how anyone can defend the present government knowing how they have raped the country.

I cannot wrap my head around this concept of prolonged democracy BS. It would have made sense had both the status quo parties had frequent change of command and new leadership was emerging every few years. That is not happening.

Nawaz Sharif has been the leader of the PML since the late 80s-90s and Shahbaz has been their leader in Punjab around the same time frame. Now they are both lining up their children to continue their dynasty. Maryam Nawaz is set to takeover from Nawaz and Hamza Shahbaz from Shahbaz. As they say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and it is safe to assume that both offspring are (or will be) as corrupt as their predecessors.

Same with PPP, Zulfiqar Bhutto was succeeded by Benazir and she is now succeeded by her husband and son. Is this democracy or passing down of the crown within the royal family???


The only way this prolonged democracy argument can be successful if somewhere down the line a Sharif or a Bhutto comes along who is not corrupt and has had ZERO influence from the people around him, but that is very, very hard to imagine.


Prolonged democracy worked in India because prime ministers weren't lining up their offspring to take over from them. The same isn't happening in Pakistan and hence we have these elected royalties leading us.


Aisi democracy se behtar to amriyaat hai, kamsekam amir 10-12 saal hakumat karne ke baad hamesha ke liyay chala jata hai. Inki tarhan nahi ke char phushtoo tak hukmarani kar rahay hoon.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I agree with the majority of posters on here..it would be a difficult decision but ultimately i would probably not do what IK did. That is the greatness of the man, he did what almost all other would not in his shoes.

I see some posts on here saying the same should apply to NS and AAZ. They were nothing before politics, they are famous and have made their money through politics, not in IK's case. The other 2 have sacrificed nothing to be in politics (in fact they have gained a lot from it) while in IK's case the situation is, if anything, the opposite.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Square Drive]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] who will you vote for next year, then?

 

[corneredtiger85292]

Couldn't have said it better.

I find supporters of PPP and more of PMLN (some of my family members included), quite astonishing in their thought process and logic. just gotta shake your head and wonder at times