"You may call Burhan Wani a terrorist, but he was an icon for the people there": Former RAW chief

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This article in a Pak newspaper explains it.

How Balochistan became a part of Pakistan – a historical perspective

Balochistan consists of the south west of Pakistan. In the west it borders with Afghanistan and Iran and in the south it has the Arabian Sea. It accounts for

www.nation.com.pk

Here is the relevant paragraph:-

" On March 26, 1948, the Pakistan Army was ordered to move into the Baloch coastal region of Pasni, Jiwani and Turbat. This was the first act of aggression prior to the march on Kalat by a Pakistani military detachment on April 1, 1948. Kalat capitulated on March 27 after the army moved into the coastal region and it was announced in Karachi that the Khan of Kalat has agreed to merge his state with Pakistan. Jinnah accepted this accession under the gun. It should be noted that the Balochistan Assembly had already rejected any suggestion of forfeiting the independence of Balochistan on any pretext. So even the signature of the Khan of Kalat taken under the barrel of the gun, was not viable, because the parliament had rejected the accession and the accession was never mandated by the British Empire either, who had given Balochistan under Kalat independence before India. The sovereign Baloch state after British withdrawal from India lasted only 227 days. During this time Baluchistan had a flag flying in its embassy in Karachi where its ambassador to Pakistan lived. "

Even there it says that three of the four states were quite happy to become part of Pakistan, it was only the Khan of Kalat who was holding back, and Jinnah was willing to negotiate terms. It would seem to me that for the idea of Pakistan to work you would need to bring everyone on board according to the wishes of the majority. If every naysayer were allowed to break off, then there would be no Pakistan. India would also look very different with Khalistan and Nagaland splitting off so what would be the point of India then? Better just to have the princely states again, which would be Maharashtra, Bengal etc.

 

[Major]

I have an uncle who used to work as a civil engineer in Balochistan, he himself said there were some grievances as to the underdevelopment of the province, but that was all the people there wanted, some more resources allocated to them, not independence. These separatists are funded by outsiders fighting proxy wars. If Pakistan did the same thing across the border it would be called state sponsored terrorism.

Yup true. The grievance is valid due to natural resources pakistan takes from there.

The separatists movement has always been funded either by iran and now by india. ZABs govt took action i think against the iranis for it.

Anywyas its abit funny how @RexRex wants to create an issue on Balochistan, yet he has no idea what the problems there are and how kashmir issue and balochistan sepatist movement is not the same.

He still doesnt understand the concept of internationally recognized disputed territory in United Nations.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

BLA ?! I didn't even mention them once in this thread.

In a different thread….

Baloch people want freedom. Their freedom fighters are organising and creating massive headaches for the Pak army, they want their voices to be heard. Why won't Pak govt grant them a referendum like the UK did for Scotland ? Don't you care about self-determination ?

Who are the freedom fighters

 

[RexRex]

If every naysayer were allowed to break off, then there would be no Pakistan. India would also look very different with Khalistan and Nagaland splitting off so what would be the point of India then?

I agree .. same principle should apply to Kashmir too but your fellow Pakistanis think otherwise. The Pakistan government keeps talking about Kashmiri right to self-determination instead of minding their own business.

 

[RexRex]

In a different thread….

Who are the freedom fighters

But I didn't mention BLA anywhere in that thread ? I don't know anything about that group.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I agree .. same principle should apply to Kashmir too but your fellow Pakistanis think otherwise. The Pakistan government keeps talking about Kashmiri right to self-determination instead of minding their own business.

The difference is, the public of Kashmir never wanted to be part of India, they wished to be part of Pakistan, but their leader signed them over to India against their wishes. Similar to how Pakistan Generals follow foreign directives against their peoples wishes.

With Balochistan it is the other way round. The vast majority of the public don't want to cause dissension in Pakistan, it is the terrorists who are funded by foreigners that are carrying out terrorist activities on their own soil.

 

[RexRex]

The difference is, the public of Kashmir never wanted to be part of India, they wished to be part of Pakistan, but their leader signed them over to India against their wishes. Similar to how Pakistan Generals follow foreign directives against their peoples wishes.

With Balochistan it is the other way round. The vast majority of the public don't want to cause dissension in Pakistan, it is the terrorists who are funded by foreigners that are carrying out terrorist activities on their own soil.

That's a plain lie, hold a referendum there and the overwhelming majority in Balochistan will vote for independence.

'Funded by foriegners' is a very convenient excuse to trot out when you want to quell the freedom aspirations of any people.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's a plain lie, hold a referendum there and the overwhelming majority in Balochistan will vote for independence.

How do you know that? Did you already hold a referendum?

 

[RexRex]

How do you know that? Did you already hold a referendum?

From what i've studied and Baloch people i've spoken to in many parts of the world.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

From what i've studied and Baloch people i've spoken to in many parts of the world.

Well what I have studied, and the Baloch people I have spoke to in many parts of the world say that they don't want a separate homeland because it would cause chaos, not only with Pakistan, but also disputes with Iran and Afghanistan.

 

[RexRex]

Well what I have studied, and the Baloch people I have spoke to in many parts of the world say that they don't want a separate homeland because it would cause chaos, not only with Pakistan, but also disputes with Iran and Afghanistan.

You can only lie to yourself for so long. Look at the massive human rights abuses being perpetrated in Balochistan.

More than 5,000 people are missing in Balochistan. I want my father back | Sammi Deen Baloch

Pakistan’s security services have ‘disappeared’ Baloch people for 20 years, yet we are portrayed as terrorists. We need justice

www.theguardian.com

Balochistan: Pakistan's information black hole

Province is the hardest place in the country for human rights workers, diplomats and journalists to operate, as the Guardian discovered on a visit to the region

www.theguardian.com

Kidnap, torture, murder: the plight of Pakistan’s thousands of disappeared

Despite promises in opposition to end enforced abduction by the security forces, under Imran Khan’s government numbers have increased

www.theguardian.com

Pakistan's secret dirty war

In Balochistan, mutilated corpses bearing the signs of torture keep turning up, among them lawyers, students and farm workers. Why is no one investigating and what have they got to do with the bloody battle for Pakistan's largest province?

www.theguardian.com

 

[YousafTheBeast]

But I didn't mention BLA anywhere in that thread ? I don't know anything about that group.

Talk about the post I quoted, who are the freedom fighters in Balochistan that you’re referring to?

 

[RexRex]

Talk about the post I quoted, who are the freedom fighters in Balochistan that you’re referring to?

I was referring to the local people who are organising/fighting back against the human rights abuses that I listed above in post #91.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You can only lie to yourself for so long. Look at the massive human rights abuses being perpetrated in Balochistan.

More than 5,000 people are missing in Balochistan. I want my father back | Sammi Deen Baloch

Pakistan’s security services have ‘disappeared’ Baloch people for 20 years, yet we are portrayed as terrorists. We need justice

www.theguardian.com

Balochistan: Pakistan's information black hole

Province is the hardest place in the country for human rights workers, diplomats and journalists to operate, as the Guardian discovered on a visit to the region

www.theguardian.com

Kidnap, torture, murder: the plight of Pakistan’s thousands of disappeared

Despite promises in opposition to end enforced abduction by the security forces, under Imran Khan’s government numbers have increased

www.theguardian.com

Pakistan's secret dirty war

In Balochistan, mutilated corpses bearing the signs of torture keep turning up, among them lawyers, students and farm workers. Why is no one investigating and what have they got to do with the bloody battle for Pakistan's largest province?

www.theguardian.com

Some of those articles are 13 years old. Even then they are more of an indictment of the establishment which disappears lawyers, judges and politicians who try to challenge the status quo rather than a commentary on the separatist agenda which would drag in Iran and Afghanistan as well, it would not just be a Pakistan issue.

 

[IMMY69]

Some of those articles are 13 years old. Even then they are more of an indictment of the establishment which disappears lawyers, judges and politicians who try to challenge the status quo rather than a commentary on the separatist agenda which would drag in Iran and Afghanistan as well, it would not just be a Pakistan issue.

You display admirable patience

 

[cricketjoshila]

Even there it says that three of the four states were quite happy to become part of Pakistan, it was only the Khan of Kalat who was holding back, and Jinnah was willing to negotiate terms. It would seem to me that for the idea of Pakistan to work you would need to bring everyone on board according to the wishes of the majority. If every naysayer were allowed to break off, then there would be no Pakistan. India would also look very different with Khalistan and Nagaland splitting off so what would be the point of India then? Better just to have the princely states again, which would be Maharashtra, Bengal etc.

Khan of Kalat was forced to join Pakistan. Nagaland joined India willingly.

That's the difference.

 

[RexRex]

You display admirable patience

Why don't you add something to the discussion instead of leaving coy remarks ?

 

[uppercut]

So since you hold the UN in such high esteem any thoughts on Pakistan sheltering UN sanctioned terrorists ?

@Major

No response ?

 

[Major]

@Major

No response ?

You do know that Burhan Wani was never in the UN Security Council's sanctions list right?

I do agree that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was in the list.

So now tell me how is Burhan Wani a terrorist when he was not even on the UN sanctioned list that you care very much about.

 

[uppercut]

You do know that Burhan Wani was never in the UN Security Council's sanctions list right?

Neither were those involved in 26/11 or numerous other terrorist activities in the last 3+ decades .... What does that tell you ?

I do agree that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed was in the list.

and nobody else ?

So now tell me how is Burhan Wani a terrorist when he was not even on the UN sanctioned list that you care very much about.

You were the one that mentioned UN in this thread in post# 43.

 

[Major]

Neither were those involved in 26/11 or numerous other terrorist activities in the last 3+ decades .... What does that tell you ?





and nobody else ?





You were the one that mentioned UN in this thread in post# 43.

so you have an issue with the ones listed and than also have an issue with the ones not listed?

Make up your minded. You talked about the list, and i mentioned that the guy upon whom this thread topic is on is not on that list.

Indian PP gymnastics is my favourite sport to watch around here

 

[uppercut]

so you have an issue with the ones listed and than also have an issue with the ones not listed?

Make up your minded. You talked about the list, and i mentioned that the guy upon whom this thread topic is on is not on that list.

Indian PP gymnastics is my favourite sport to watch around here

Nope YOU were the one that referred to UN way before I even made any comment on this thread.

Here is what you said in post# 43:

Words like disputed do have meaning. Because these issues have been highlighted at UN and special councils been held for them. Furthermore your own govts have recognized it as disputes with the likes of indira signing shimla agreement on it.

So my question to you based on that post was that if you hold UN in such a a high regard what do you think about your own gov that shelters well known UN sanctioned terrorists ? its a simple question really.

 

[Major]

Nope YOU were the one that referred to UN way before I even made any comment on this thread.

Here is what you said in post# 43:



So my question to you based on that post was that if you hold UN in such a a high regard what do you think about your own gov that shelters well known UN sanctioned terrorists ? its a simple question really.

I did not mention about santioned terorirst, what i mentioned was UN mentioning a terriroty as disputed.

Like i said, u talked about the list, and i mentioned that the guy upon whom this thread topic is on is not on that list.

 

[uppercut]

I did not mention about santioned terorirst, what i mentioned was UN mentioning a terriroty as disputed.

Like i said, u talked about the list, and i mentioned that the guy upon whom this thread topic is on is not on that list.

In other words you will use UN as long as it suits your agenda and will dump it when it doesn't suit your agenda ... Correct ?

 

[Major]

In other words you will use UN as long as it suits your agenda and will dump it when it doesn't suit your agenda ... Correct ?

What agenda? UN is an international recognized forum.

Kashmir issue has been raised their, even your own country accepted as an issue in SHimla agreement. Your country recognized UN aswell.

Just because UN doesnt pi$s on your non existing Baluchistan issue you think you can do the BJP drama of labelling UN as anti national. These gimmacks only work inside India but no on international forums.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Khan of Kalat was forced to join Pakistan. Nagaland joined India willingly.

That's the difference.

I already said Khan of Kalat was not representing the people of Balochistan, he was only speaking on behalf of one province out of four. Even then we do not know if he had been bought off, certainly we can't make a judgement based on what some BJP acolyte says 70 years later.

 

[uppercut]

What agenda? UN is an international recognized forum.

Good so ... do you agree with the UN's list of terrorist organizations ... Yes/No.


If yes ... then what is your take on Pakistan sheltering many of these Terrorist organizations ? very Simple question really.

 

[Major]

Good so ... do you agree with the UN's list of terrorist organizations ... Yes/No.


If yes ... then what is your take on Pakistan sheltering many of these Terrorist organizations ? very Simple question really.

i have already told you about Hafiz Saeed.

Now that you saw that Burhani Wani isnt the list, so you have odone a gymnastics by dodging from list of terorrist to list of orgs.

Nice try.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I already said Khan of Kalat was not representing the people of Balochistan, he was only speaking on behalf of one province out of four. Even then we do not know if he had been bought off, certainly we can't make a judgement based on what some BJP acolyte says 70 years later.

Khan of Kalat was the official ruler of Kalat. It was not for pakistanis to decide if there were any issues between him and his people.

There was no province. There were 4 princely states in what is currently Balochistan.

They were Kalat Kharan Las Bela and Makran. All 4 has different rulers. 3 rulers agreed to join Pakistan. Kalat declared itself independent in August 1947. All this was legal under Indian independence Act of 1947.

Pakistan ofcourse in March 1948 forcefully annexed Kalat.

Pakistan tried the same trick in Kashmir. The trick you are using "Ruler didn't represent the people". Didn't work in Kashmir.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Neither were those involved in 26/11 or numerous other terrorist activities in the last 3+ decades .... What does that tell you ?





and nobody else ?





You were the one that mentioned UN in this thread in post# 43.

Once a organisation is under sanctions how are its "commanders" innocent?

 

[uppercut]

i have already told you about Hafiz Saeed.

I will take that dead beat answer from you to mean that you trust in the list of terrorists that the UN publishes.

Now that you saw that Burhani Wani isnt the list,

Neither is Modi , Yogi , or Amit Shah or infact any Hindutva/RSS/BJP members from India at all in the UN list EVER ( LTTE Prabhakaran does not count )... Will that stop you from yapping and crying about the supposedly "evil" Hindutva "Extremists ? Or you have a conspiracy theory to cover that ?

so you have odone a gymnastics by dodging from list of terorrist to list of orgs.

Nice try.

Its all one and the same. They do both. But @cricketjoshila has a good point in post# 110 .... once a organisation is under sanctions you can no longer play the "Burhan wani was innocent" victim card.


And BTW in the past you have pretty much refused to acknowledge that these despicable organisations even exist in Pakistan and if they do exist it is entirely India headache to deal with them and that Pakistan has no responsibility to act against them.

 

[BouncerGuy]

As Raw Chief said: you can call him a terrorist but he is an icon for many people. You can can have an opinion of your own.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Most worthless RAW chief. He and Sudheendra Kulkarni were largely responsible for Vajpayee governments defeat.

Both were advisors to the Vajpayee government and shaped what became a disastrous policy on Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Khan of Kalat was the official ruler of Kalat. It was not for pakistanis to decide if there were any issues between him and his people.

There was no province. There were 4 princely states in what is currently Balochistan.

They were Kalat Kharan Las Bela and Makran. All 4 has different rulers. 3 rulers agreed to join Pakistan. Kalat declared itself independent in August 1947. All this was legal under Indian independence Act of 1947.

Pakistan ofcourse in March 1948 forcefully annexed Kalat.

Pakistan tried the same trick in Kashmir. The trick you are using "Ruler didn't represent the people". Didn't work in Kashmir.

Kalat was only one of the four provinces so the correct decision was made to take into account the wishes of Baloch people as a whole and include Kalat as part of Pakistan. India clearly agreed as they did not consider it a provice worth fighting over as they did with Kashmir. Perhaps they didn't want it to become a breeding ground for separitism at the time.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kalat was only one of the four provinces so the correct decision was made to take into account the wishes of Baloch people as a whole and include Kalat as part of Pakistan. India clearly agreed as they did not consider it a provice worth fighting over as they did with Kashmir. Perhaps they didn't want it to become a breeding ground for separitism at the time.

India didn't intervene as there was no common boundary with Kalat.

How can Pakistan make decisions for the Ruler of Kalat or its people?

Kalat was a independent state at the same time when India and Pakistan became independent.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India didn't intervene as there was no common boundary with Kalat.

How can Pakistan make decisions for the Ruler of Kalat or its people?

Kalat was a independent state at the same time when India and Pakistan became independent.

The decision will have been made to preserve Balochistan as a unified province in accordance with the wishes with the majority of the people living there I would imagine.

 

[RexRex]

Even then we do not know if he had been bought off, certainly we can't make a judgement based on what some BJP acolyte says 70 years later.

We don't know if those tiny Baloch kingdoms that already acceded to Pak were bought of either. It goes both ways.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We don't know if those tiny Baloch kingdoms that already acceded to Pak were bought of either. It goes both ways.

This isn't really relevant to the OP anway, just checked and Burhan Wani was actually a Kashmir activist. Seems this thread has got hijacked into discussions on Balochistan on which there are enough dedicated threads already.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys steer away from any more off topic stuff

 

[The Bald Eagle]

He was a martyr backed by overwhelming local majority and even thread title alone endorses this fact.

 

[deltexas]

I agree .. same principle should apply to Kashmir too but your fellow Pakistanis think otherwise. The Pakistan government keeps talking about Kashmiri right to self-determination instead of minding their own business.

This is pretty much the gist in a nutshell. Of every state wants to break off and become a country- there is no nation anymore- no Pak no Ind no USA.. but posters here want to apply it selectively. The moment Kashmiri pandits were killed and forced to leave - kashmir lost its moral request. If Kashmiri pandits were still there - they would have had a lot more sympathy and support from the Ind public. But after the exodus - none whatsoever.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

A great martyr
====
Martyrdom anniversary of Burhan Wani being observed today

Kashmiris on both sides of the Line of Control and across the world are observing the 9th martyrdom anniversary of youth Kashmiri leader Burhan Muzaffar Wani on Tuesday.

Rallies, seminars, and programs will be held to honor Burhan Wani and highlight Indian atrocities in the occupied territory.

Burhan Muzaffar Wani was martyred by Indian brutal forces during a fake encounter in Kokernag area of Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir on 8th July 2016.

Source: Radio Pakistan