“Since 1996 only Saeed Anwar and now Babar Azam could have broken into India Top 5”

[Jazx]

Ganguly was a top 3 batsman in ODI whereas MoYo was batting at 4 for as far as I can remember. He was basically competing with Dravid and he actually has a better record than him. A better average and a better strike rate. Both have played one world final each as runners up.

Indians will never accept MoYo as a better ODI batsman than Dravid.

And he wasn’t equal to Laxman, he was superior. There is a gulf in quality and class between the two. Laxman was just the fitter player who played 40 more Tests but this is because he was a Test specialist and an ODI write off, whereas MoYO was Pakistan’s core middle order batsman in both ODI and Test.

IMO he was actually versatile enough to become a good T20 batsman like Babar is right now if he had played seriously as a T20 opener in the latter part of his career, just like Kallis did learn how to be an effective T20 opener as well.

MoYo in Tests>>>Laxman, Ganguly

Moyo in ODI>>>Dravid, Laxman

Partially agree with it. Laxman's clutch knocks against big teams on bigger occasions in tests under crises situations makes him equivalent to moyo. Whereas Moyo's most of the runs are actually soft runs with lesser impact than some of laxman's epic innings.

 

[Giannis]

You can respond to your friend that in India's entire 74 year history in world cricket only Bhuneshwar Kumar and maybe Irfan Pathan could walk into a Pakistani bowling lineup.

 

[James]

I always find myself rating Laxman very highly because of those select few genius Test innings.

 

[Ab Fan]

Imagine having the audacity to provide a serious opinion on the subject when you consider Azhar Ali and Mohammad Yousuf as equal batsmen.

Oops, it was Mohammad Azharuddin.

Don't make my good post look like a joke by throwing Azhar Ali's name there

 

[Farabi]

It works both ways though, because you might get away with a good performance against the likes of McGrath and Warne in one series, but like you, they too would study your weaknesses and work out you. Dravid had some great performances against Australia, but also very mediocre ones too.

Pakistan did face Australia in the UAE instead, and that Australian team was an all conquering team so much so that they'd demolish any side 9/10 times regardless of whether they were playing them in Australia, moon or mars. They were so good that only 2 sides could deny them victory in their own homes in the 2000s (2001 - India and 2005 - England). They demolished every other side in their own home which is why they were so greatly regarded.

Tendulkar, Laxman and Dravid all had better averages in Australia than Inzy, MoYo and Younis. But to be fair to the latter, McGrath and Warne missed one series in 2004 through injuries. Very few batsmen have good averages against Australia in Australia when they were in their hey day, and probably only Sachin and Lara come to my mind. Even Dravid and Laxman had their struggles, which is why I always have a chuckle when some Pak fans say Dravid was a better test batsman than Tendulkar.

What is Dravid, Laxman and Sachin’s average vs McGrath and Warne in Australia? You should then compare the same with Younis, MoYo and Inzi’s. That feels like apple to apple comparison because warne/McGrath in Aus we’re 80% of Aussie attack and you’re saying they weren’t Eveny there in 2004 vb series, then those data points are totally irrelevant!

Dubai is not in Pakistan and it is not where Pak play their cricket growing up. That UAE series was also where Pak team experimented with many new faces. One of the biggest myths people have is that Pak batting is just as comfortable in UAE as it is in Pak. This is not true!!! Yes, UAE is more approachable than SA, but Pak batsmen have always looked more at easy and play more freely in Pakistan.
Just look at ongoing QEA trophy scores, batting averages and SR currently.

 

[Technics 1210]

Why 1996? Seems like an arbitrary year.

Lets reverse the question, how many bowlers from India since 1996, would break into Pakistan’s top 5 bowling unit?

 

[street cricketer]

What is Dravid, Laxman and Sachin’s average vs McGrath and Warne in Australia? You should then compare the same with Younis, MoYo and Inzi’s. That feels like apple to apple comparison because warne/McGrath in Aus we’re 80% of Aussie attack and you’re saying they weren’t Eveny there in 2004 vb series, then those data points are totally irrelevant!

Dubai is not in Pakistan and it is not where Pak play their cricket growing up. That UAE series was also where Pak team experimented with many new faces. One of the biggest myths people have is that Pak batting is just as comfortable in UAE as it is in Pak. This is not true!!! Yes, UAE is more approachable than SA, but Pak batsmen have always looked more at easy and play more freely in Pakistan.
Just look at ongoing QEA trophy scores, batting averages and SR currently.

It doesn't work like that. Dubai of course is not Pakistan, but is the closest to home conditions for Pakistan. Indian batsmen don't grow up playing in Sri Lanka either, but Sri Lanka or the UAE will always be 'home conditions' for the asian teams against non asian teams, in the same way England will be considered home conditions for New Zealand even though they're vastly apart. The disparity in conditions between Brisbane and Dubai is vastly bigger than between Dubai and Karachi.

Dravid struggled badly vs McGrath and Warne in Australia and barely scored a run, this deficiency is well known among Indian fans when he gets compared to Tendulkar who had a very good record against McGrath and Warne in Australia. Laxman had average returns though, scoring a 167 in one of the matches. Younis didn't score any century in Australia vs McGrath and Warne but was a slightly more consistent than Laxman whereas Yousuf scored a century but with a slightly worse record than Laxman. Where they vastly differ though is their respective home records vs Australia, where Laxman and Dravid have massive match winning centuries and double century against McGrath and Warne at home whereas Younis and Yousuf struggled badly at home leading to home defeats. Saeed Anwar is the one who caught my attention, who had a better record than all these batsmen barring Sachin, I think he is underrated among Pak fans in Test cricket. Forget about Younis or Yousuf or even Inzy, Anwar would easily replace one of our openers and partner with Sehwag if he was available for us.

 

[street cricketer]

What is Dravid, Laxman and Sachin’s average vs McGrath and Warne in Australia? You should then compare the same with Younis, MoYo and Inzi’s. That feels like apple to apple comparison because warne/McGrath in Aus we’re 80% of Aussie attack and you’re saying they weren’t Eveny there in 2004 vb series, then those data points are totally irrelevant!

Dubai is not in Pakistan and it is not where Pak play their cricket growing up. That UAE series was also where Pak team experimented with many new faces. One of the biggest myths people have is that Pak batting is just as comfortable in UAE as it is in Pak. This is not true!!! Yes, UAE is more approachable than SA, but Pak batsmen have always looked more at easy and play more freely in Pakistan.
Just look at ongoing QEA trophy scores, batting averages and SR currently.

Btw if only facing McGrath and Warne counts for performances in Australia, does it mean Imran leading his team to a series draw in the Caribbean in '88 not count either?

Because Pakistan faced an under strength West Indian pace attack in that series after Garner, Roberts and Holding all retired while Marshall and Richards missed the only test Pakistan won in that series.

 

[Farabi]

Btw if only facing McGrath and Warne counts for performances in Australia, does it mean Imran leading his team to a series draw in the Caribbean in '88 not count either?

Because Pakistan faced an under strength West Indian pace attack in that series after Garner, Roberts and Holding all retired while Marshall and Richards missed the only test Pakistan won in that series.

Obviously both performances count. Winning test matches in Aus vs Aus is an achievement.
But the argument you’ve made is different. You’re saying each of the Indian fab 4 were better than Inzi/MoYo/Younis in early 2000s because Indian fab 4 performed better vs Aus.
I am not disagreeing yet, I just wanna see the data which is representative.
But the data points you’re sharing are somewhat irrelevant because Indian batsmen either played Aussies at home or vs 2nd tier Aussie attack w/o Warne and McGrath.
However, Inzi and co played Warne and McGrath in Aus, which frankly was the hardest of the tests in the history of batsmanship.
I saw 2004 vb series scorecards just now. Sorry but Nathan Bracken, McGill, and co were good but nowhere near the boots they replaced.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indian fans who emerged after the IPL should not be taking seriously

They don’t understand cricket at all.

Lol. I have watched cricket long before the IPL.

And i thank the gods that MoYo or Inzy didn't play in place of a Laxman for us.

 

[street cricketer]

Obviously both performances count. Winning test matches in Aus vs Aus is an achievement.
But the argument you’ve made is different. You’re saying each of the Indian fab 4 were better than Inzi/MoYo/Younis in early 2000s because Indian fab 4 performed better vs Aus.
I am not disagreeing yet, I just wanna see the data which is representative.
But the data points you’re sharing are somewhat irrelevant because Indian batsmen either played Aussies at home or vs 2nd tier Aussie attack w/o Warne and McGrath.
However, Inzi and co played Warne and McGrath in Aus, which frankly was the hardest of the tests in the history of batsmanship.
I saw 2004 vb series scorecards just now. Sorry but Nathan Bracken, McGill, and co were good but nowhere near the boots they replaced.

Warne might have been a huge miss against Pakistan because Pakistani batsmen struggled badly against Warne but Warne had a really bad time bowling to the Indians during his career. Warne averaged 47 @ 91 S/R with a single 5fer from 15 tests against India while he averaged 20 @ 45 S/R with 6 5fers from 16 tests against Pakistan. Warne would have struggled regardless if he had played that series against India. If anything, Warne's stats were probably saved from getting more battering at the hands of the Indian batsmen with him missing that series. But yes, McGrath was a big miss because he was great against every team.

 

[Farabi]

Warne might have been a huge miss against Pakistan because Pakistani batsmen struggled badly against Warne but Warne had a really bad time bowling to the Indians during his career. Warne averaged 47 @ 91 S/R with a single 5fer from 15 tests against India while he averaged 20 @ 45 S/R with 6 5fers from 16 tests against Pakistan. Warne would have struggled regardless if he had played that series against India. If anything, Warne's stats were probably saved from getting more battering at the hands of the Indian batsmen with him missing that series. But yes, McGrath was a big miss because he was great against every team.

This just proves that Indian batsmen of that era very strong against leg spin bowling match up.

I actually agree with you. Sachin is my favorite batsmen ever and I think he was a league above the rest. Rahul Dravid, regardless of his exploits in Aus, was a more reliable batsman than each of MoYo/Inzi if a strong defense was needed.
I just don’t agree that it’s because of their performances vs one team Australia.
All batsmen have strengths and weaknesses and diff match ups. Teams also have match ups. Pak traditionally does better against Eng/NZ.
4th innings against most spinners, ide take Younus. Against express pace, Dravid any day as the way he played Akhter was phenomenal.
Pressure chase, Inzi.
Moving ball in Eng, MoYo hands down.
Against Leg spinner, Sachin/Laxman.
Against medium pacers, Sachin.
Overall, all of these guys have score 9k/10k+ runs at 50 average and you can’t really say one is that much better than the other. It all averages out over that much data points

 

[street cricketer]

This just proves that Indian batsmen of that era very strong against leg spin bowling match up.

I actually agree with you. Sachin is my favorite batsmen ever and I think he was a league above the rest. Rahul Dravid, regardless of his exploits in Aus, was a more reliable batsman than each of MoYo/Inzi if a strong defense was needed.
I just don’t agree that it’s because of their performances vs one team Australia.
All batsmen have strengths and weaknesses and diff match ups. Teams also have match ups. Pak traditionally does better against Eng/NZ.
4th innings against most spinners, ide take Younus. Against express pace, Dravid any day as the way he played Akhter was phenomenal.
Pressure chase, Inzi.
Moving ball in Eng, MoYo hands down.
Against Leg spinner, Sachin/Laxman.
Against medium pacers, Sachin.
Overall, all of these guys have score 9k/10k+ runs at 50 average and you can’t really say one is that much better than the other. It all averages out over that much data points

Dravid's actually had his struggles in Australia and South Africa. He was one of the best ever players of swing bowling though and had a killer average in England and NZ. He did score centuries in Aus and SA but he had his struggles too. He had no issues facing pace in the subcontinent however and therefore playing Akhtar wouldn't have been that big of an issue (I don't think he struggled vs Lee either). I think more than raw pace, Dravid had his struggles against accurate seam bowlers like McGrath and Asif, and probably would have struggled against someone like Philander.

MoYo was a very good player of swing bowling just like Dravid but he had his issues everywhere else. Younis had his struggles in Australia against the great Australian team, but he later cashed in against the current generation of Australians, though tbf to him, Cummins Hazlewood Starc Lyon is not an attack to belittle at all. Laxman was not a prolific run scorer like the batsmen I've mentioned above, but he was one of the most clutch batsmen I've ever seen and always brought his best in difficult conditions against the best. He's the exact opposite of a HTB who scores loads of soft runs against minnows and weak attacks but fails against the top teams. He's a bit like Damien Martyn in that regard.

Sachin I've always believed was the most versatile batsmen I've ever seen. You can argue Lara and Ponting were more destructive than Tendulkar, but Sachin is probably the closest to an all conditions batsman I've seen. He had no particular weakness against any type of bowling, underlined by the fact that he was scoring centuries in debut tours to Australia and England as a 17 and 18 year old. If I had to pick a batsman to bat in England and NZ, I would pick Dravid or NZ. If I had to pick a batsman in Aus/SA, I would pick Lara or Punter. If I had to pick a batsman to bat in the subcontinent, I would pick Sehwag or Younis or Dravid. But if I had to pick a batsman to bat in an undisclosed venue which could be any country, I'll pick Tendulkar because he was the best all conditions batsman in Test cricket. The closest batsman to him in terms of versatility is Steve Smith, although he has had his issues in South Africa.

 

[street cricketer]

If I had to pick a batsman to bat in England and NZ, I would pick Dravid or NZ.

*MoYo

 

[jeetu]

Since 1996
Overall Record
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]162 [/td][td]13438 [/td][td]54.18 [/td][td]54.54 [/td][td]43 [/td][td]55 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid (INDIA) [/td][td]163 [/td][td]13265 [/td][td]52.63 [/td][td]42.53 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]63 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) [/td][td]90 [/td][td]7530 [/td][td]52.29 [/td][td]52.39 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan (PAK) [/td][td]118 [/td][td]10099 [/td][td]52.05 [/td][td]52.12 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]89 [/td][td]6782 [/td][td]51.77 [/td][td]55.21 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (INDIA) [/td][td]97 [/td][td]7765 [/td][td]50.75 [/td][td]56.48 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Sehwag (INDIA) [/td][td]103 [/td][td]8503 [/td][td]49.43 [/td][td]82.18 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Anwar (PAK) [/td][td]41 [/td][td]3014 [/td][td]47.09 [/td][td]56.23 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Sharma (INDIA) [/td][td]43 [/td][td]3047 [/td][td]46.87 [/td][td]55.47 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Misbah-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]75 [/td][td]5222 [/td][td]46.62 [/td][td]44.53 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]VVS Laxman (INDIA) [/td][td]134 [/td][td]8781 [/td][td]45.97 [/td][td]49.37 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]56 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CA Pujara (INDIA) [/td][td]92 [/td][td]6571 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]44.31 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam (PAK) [/td][td]37 [/td][td]2445 [/td][td]43.66 [/td][td]54.9 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Azhar Ali (PAK) [/td][td]91 [/td][td]6701 [/td][td]42.68 [/td][td]41.82 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SC Ganguly (INDIA) [/td][td]113 [/td][td]7212 [/td][td]42.17 [/td][td]51.25 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]35 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Gambhir (INDIA) [/td][td]58 [/td][td]4154 [/td][td]41.95 [/td][td]51.49 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Dhawan (INDIA) [/td][td]34 [/td][td]2315 [/td][td]40.61 [/td][td]66.94 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AM Rahane (INDIA) [/td][td]79 [/td][td]4795 [/td][td]39.3 [/td][td]49.19 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Vijay (INDIA) [/td][td]61 [/td][td]3982 [/td][td]38.28 [/td][td]46.29 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Asad Shafiq (PAK) [/td][td]77 [/td][td]4660 [/td][td]38.19 [/td][td]48.6 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA) [/td][td]90 [/td][td]4876 [/td][td]38.09 [/td][td]59.11 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Taufeeq Umar (PAK) [/td][td]44 [/td][td]2963 [/td][td]37.98 [/td][td]44.71 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Hafeez (PAK) [/td][td]55 [/td][td]3652 [/td][td]37.64 [/td][td]56.01 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sarfaraz Ahmed (PAK) [/td][td]49 [/td][td]2657 [/td][td]36.39 [/td][td]70.98 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KL Rahul (INDIA) [/td][td]40 [/td][td]2321 [/td][td]35.16 [/td][td]54.12 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RA Jadeja (INDIA) [/td][td]57 [/td][td]2195 [/td][td]33.76 [/td][td]59.3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Imran Farhat (PAK) [/td][td]40 [/td][td]2400 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]48.28 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kamran Akmal (PAK) [/td][td]53 [/td][td]2648 [/td][td]30.79 [/td][td]63.1 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Away Record
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]82 [/td][td]7301 [/td][td]57.48 [/td][td]56 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]30 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid (INDIA) [/td][td]93 [/td][td]7667 [/td][td]53.61 [/td][td]42.64 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan (PAK) [/td][td]71 [/td][td]5608 [/td][td]48.76 [/td][td]51.27 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Saeed Anwar (PAK) [/td][td]19 [/td][td]1565 [/td][td]47.42 [/td][td]57.09 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]46 [/td][td]3278 [/td][td]45.52 [/td][td]56.42 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) [/td][td]55 [/td][td]4174 [/td][td]44.88 [/td][td]51.9 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Sehwag (INDIA) [/td][td]51 [/td][td]3847 [/td][td]44.73 [/td][td]80.73 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Gambhir (INDIA) [/td][td]24 [/td][td]1832 [/td][td]43.61 [/td][td]50.9 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (INDIA) [/td][td]52 [/td][td]3978 [/td][td]43.23 [/td][td]53.98 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]VVS Laxman (INDIA) [/td][td]77 [/td][td]5014 [/td][td]42.49 [/td][td]49.76 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Misbah-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]43 [/td][td]2844 [/td][td]41.82 [/td][td]43.86 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AM Rahane (INDIA) [/td][td]46 [/td][td]3087 [/td][td]41.71 [/td][td]49.5 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SC Ganguly (INDIA) [/td][td]63 [/td][td]4032 [/td][td]41.56 [/td][td]51.78 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]22 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Dhawan (INDIA) [/td][td]23 [/td][td]1605 [/td][td]39.14 [/td][td]64.58 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Azhar Ali (PAK) [/td][td]57 [/td][td]3722 [/td][td]37.59 [/td][td]41.44 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CA Pujara (INDIA) [/td][td]44 [/td][td]2867 [/td][td]37.23 [/td][td]39.12 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Asad Shafiq (PAK) [/td][td]44 [/td][td]2522 [/td][td]33.18 [/td][td]49.13 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]14 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA) [/td][td]48 [/td][td]2496 [/td][td]32.84 [/td][td]58.68 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Vijay (INDIA) [/td][td]31 [/td][td]1725 [/td][td]30.8 [/td][td]43.18 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

IN SENA
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SR Tendulkar (INDIA) [/td][td]47 [/td][td]4401 [/td][td]53.67 [/td][td]56.37 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Dravid (INDIA) [/td][td]46 [/td][td]3909 [/td][td]49.48 [/td][td]41.74 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (INDIA) [/td][td]37 [/td][td]3164 [/td][td]44.56 [/td][td]53.73 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Younis Khan (PAK) [/td][td]30 [/td][td]2329 [/td][td]43.94 [/td][td]51.68 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Yousuf (PAK) [/td][td]30 [/td][td]2368 [/td][td]42.28 [/td][td]53.95 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK) [/td][td]24 [/td][td]1688 [/td][td]42.2 [/td][td]53.8 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]10 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SC Ganguly (INDIA) [/td][td]32 [/td][td]2311 [/td][td]42.01 [/td][td]56.51 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]VVS Laxman (INDIA) [/td][td]41 [/td][td]2710 [/td][td]40.44 [/td][td]49.74 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]15 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RR Pant (INDIA) [/td][td]17 [/td][td]1037 [/td][td]35.75 [/td][td]63.69 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AM Rahane (INDIA) [/td][td]34 [/td][td]2132 [/td][td]34.95 [/td][td]48.27 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CA Pujara (INDIA) [/td][td]36 [/td][td]2314 [/td][td]34.02 [/td][td]37.13 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Sehwag (INDIA) [/td][td]29 [/td][td]1788 [/td][td]33.11 [/td][td]72.5 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Azhar Ali (PAK) [/td][td]32 [/td][td]1902 [/td][td]32.79 [/td][td]39.79 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Sharma (INDIA) [/td][td]19 [/td][td]1119 [/td][td]31.97 [/td][td]44.21 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Salman Butt (PAK) [/td][td]16 [/td][td]1014 [/td][td]31.68 [/td][td]48.86 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA) [/td][td]32 [/td][td]1731 [/td][td]31.47 [/td][td]55.16 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Asad Shafiq (PAK) [/td][td]24 [/td][td]1361 [/td][td]30.93 [/td][td]51.65 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]M Vijay (INDIA) [/td][td]21 [/td][td]1285 [/td][td]30.59 [/td][td]41.45 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[zulfiqar]

I actually noticed your point while listing out the stats - that Australia didn't play many tests against Pakistan in the 2000s decade due to a variety of reasons. I tried searching for stats of Pakistani batsmen vs Australia for a 15 year period from '96 onwards and Younis and MoYo's stats dropped even further which is why I didn't list it out. But two batsmen stood out in their records vs Australia - Saeed Anwar and Ijaz Ahmed, both having a healthy 40+ average against Aus.

As for Tendulkar and McGrath comparison, you have to take two things into factor:

In the 2000s decade, it was not Sachin who played the most tests vs Australia but actually Dravid and Laxman. This was because Sachin missed most of the Aus tour of India in 2004 when they famously won because Tendulkar was struggling with a tennis elbow injury then and many actually thought that would be the end of his career then. Similarly, McGrath missed the entire series when India toured Australia in 2003 due to injury as well, when Tendulkar was present. So in spite of playing for a long time, Sachin didn't get to face McGrath in a lot of tests as you'd expect in a career spanning 200 tests.

Even still, Tendulkar had two centuries from 9 tests (you missed Sachin's century in the boxing day test in '99). He actually has a better record in Australia vs McGrath than in India and it would actually be even better, but for the 1999 tour of Australia which was famous for two things - Sachin being a lone performer for India in the series and him getting poor decisions from Bucknor and Harper. Also both Dravid and Laxman put on the famous 376 run partnership while facing an attack of McGrath-Gillespie-Warne-Kasprowicz in Kolkata. They had Australia bowl to them alone for more than a day in the sun (104 overs) and it was an Australian side that was coming off a world record 16 successive test wins. That was as good as it gets and it was not that Laxman and Dravid scored their centuries and double centuries only vs attacks without McGrath.

Also, while Pakistani batsmen have traditionally performed better in England than Australia, it is not that they were always better than their Indian counterparts. For example, in the 2000s decade, these were the averages of the following batsmen in England:

MoYo - 65
Younis - 52
Inzy - 46

Dravid - 66
Tendulkar - 52
Ganguly - 54
Laxman - 44

Pakistan were undoubtedly great in England in the 90s winning two consecutive series but India were better in the 2000s drawing one series in '02 and winning one in '07. Now I never included Inzy in my posts above and only referred to Younis and MoYo. In fact, I actually acknowledged Inzy's century at Hobart (in that test when Langer refused to walk) in one of my earliest posts in the thread. I actually rate Inzy better than Younis and MoYo regardless of what their respective career averages indicate.

Thanks for correcting the stat about Sachin (2 100s in 9 games with McGrath vs 1 in 9 that I had posted). Perhaps I missed it but did you also believe the statement in the OP to be true? That neither one of MoYo/Younis/Inzi could replace one of Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly or Laxman?

My own opinion is that any of Moyo/Younis/Inzi are better than either Ganguly or Laxman as a batsman in all conditions.

 

[street cricketer]

Thanks for correcting the stat about Sachin (2 100s in 9 games with McGrath vs 1 in 9 that I had posted). Perhaps I missed it but did you also believe the statement in the OP to be true? That neither one of MoYo/Younis/Inzi could replace one of Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly or Laxman?

My own opinion is that any of Moyo/Younis/Inzi are better than either Ganguly or Laxman as a batsman in all conditions.

Ganguly was not in the same class as Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman. Any of the Pakistani trio you've mentioned could've replaced Ganguly in Test cricket. He was a better ODI player than Test player.

Laxman was a different kettle of fish though. Arguably the most clutch batsmen we've produced. I wouldn't trade Laxman for anyone because without him, we lose the 2001 series which is basically like the 2005 Ashes for England, and many other important series.

 

[zulfiqar]

As Farabi posted above by the way, of course Imran's performance in WI counts, as do the performance of Indian batsmen against Australia without McGrath.

About the point of home games, I think it's self-evident that Pakistani batsmen would've had better overall averages against Australia (and against ROW post-matches not being played in Pak) if we played our games in Pakistan, despite what I've seen posted on PP about Dubai being "just like home". Yes, we should fare better in Dubai vs. in Australia. Playing in Dubai is not the same as playing in Pakistan and besides this being a fact, it doesn't take much investigation to appreciate the difference in playing where all their FC cricket is played, difference in crowd/support, difference in climate/atmosphere in general, etc. But I also understand we can only compare/discuss what's happened, and there really isn't any room for "what ifs" in stats.

Also about people saying Dravid is better than Sachin in tests, I've seen this viewpoint commonly amongst Pakistani fans - I too have said that there's not much difference but I'd take Dravid. A lot of this stems from their performances vs Pakistan. In general, Pakistani bowlers had no answer to Sehwag/Dravid in the few test matches we've played over the last few decades. Sachin's best performance came in the test where he got out before closing out the game (and is widely regarded by a lot of Pakistanis as his best test innings against us) - I'm sure had he carried his bat through that game, Pakistani opinion on Sachin may have been different. Such is the cruel thin lens through which a performance is remembered when you win vs when you lose. As an overall batsman in both formats and batting in all conditions, Sachin is easily the best Indian batsman of his era.

 

[zulfiqar]

Ganguly was not in the same class as Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman. Any of the Pakistani trio you've mentioned could've replaced Ganguly in Test cricket. He was a better ODI player than Test player.

Laxman was a different kettle of fish though. Arguably the most clutch batsmen we've produced. I wouldn't trade Laxman for anyone because without him, we lose the 2001 series which is basically like the 2005 Ashes for England, and many other important series.

I can respect this opinion. It's like how we couldn't trade Inzi as an ODI player, because without him we likely do not win the 1992 semifinal!

 

[jnaveen1980]

I will never replace anyone with Laxman who was a certified bully of All time great AUstralian side. Australia was dominating from 1999 till 2009.

His record vs Australia is

22 tests 2088 runs 56.43 avge. 6 centuries 9 fifties

Sachin and Lara averaged 55 against them during that phase Sehwag 51/Kevin pietersen 50. Nobody else averaged 50 plus against them for a long period during that phase.

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

For India, Sehwag, Dravid and Tendulkar were almost irreplaceable in test format while Ganguly, Tendulkar and Yuvraj in ODIs..
But there were some weak links in Indian setup. Ganguly was never consistent in tests and Laxman though a great batsman has overall average of only 45.
Coming to the point of thread, Pakistan had certified test ATG in form of Younis Khan and ODI ATG in form of Inzamam.. Anwar and Yousuf with stellar numbers in both formats were too good to miss any XIs.
Coming to conclusion, India had one or two weak batsman in their top 6 and Pakistan had some very good batsmans to must have in any top 6.
A combined team is the effective way to analysis best talents coming out of both countries.
(Till 2010)


Tests :- (playing 7 batsman)
1.Sehwag
2.Anwar
3.Dravid
4.Tendulkar
5.Younis
6.Inzamam /Laxman (depending on opposition)
7.Wicketkeeper


ODIs :- (7 Batsman, 3part timers in Sachin, Ganguly, Yuvraj)
1.Anwar
2.Tendulkar
3.Ganguly
4.Yousuf/ All-rounder
5.Inzamam
6.Yuvraj
7.Wicketkeeper


Talking about Babar Azam, he is currently no. 1 ranked batsman in both limited overs formats. Babar Azam is already a great limited overs batsman and is not far behind Virat and Rohit in terms of impact and game.
Babar's test stats are also very impressive to select him in India's test XI in place of likes of Pujara and Rahane.

Current Indo Pak Combined Lineups

Tests :-
1.Rohit
2.Rahul
3.Azam
4.Kohli
5.Rizwan
6.Pant
7.Jadeja


ODIs :-
1.Rohit
2.Dhawan/Zaman
3.Azam
4.Kohli
5.Rahul (w)
6.Iyer / Pant
7.All Rounder